Troubador's are the BOMB [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

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Ahash31

09-14-2005, 06:24 PM

<DIV>I quit about two weeks before the expansion came out just because i was so bored of farming, and keeping the same 3 buffs up at all times. Swan Song, 3 stats... i was restricted to this, restricted to the same buffs and the same group on raids for the same purpose.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, my guildmates and personal friends were able to sway my decision to come back for the expansion (along with an aria and lore's master spell... i love my masters lol =) ]. Boy am I happy they did that... first of all.... Selo's... amazing, i'm flying around at 58% speed just like a bard should be. My mana song actually does something. The debuffs are nasty (no conc woot). I like how i am still able to offer some help to the tanks (graceful avoidence and stat song). If the deaggro song actually works ( the description has that -If Fighter .... what ever that means) then that is crazy. Our Mez is the bomb now too (especially in duels). I am really enjoying re-learning and re-playing my class. Overall i give troubs A+.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My group was tearing up last night too, Defiler, SK, Warlock, Wizzie, Assassin, and moi.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>~Alfetor</DIV>

09-14-2005, 06:39 PM

<DIV> <DIV>I was just about to start a new thread with my impressions after 1 day, but I'll post it here instead.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Good:</DIV> <UL> <LI>Selo's - love running fast.</LI> <LI>Debuffs no longer take concentration - I never used them before, now I use them all, including Kian's line which has a nice DoT.</LI> <LI>Charm + Mez - We are great at crowd control now. Charm almost seems overpowered at first glance, but when you realize that charmed heroic mobs fight like solo mobs its not too powerful.</LI> <LI>DPS is up. Shortened cast time on combat arts helps too.</LI> <LI>Improved power regen song - 27 per tick from the level 44 master II selection.</LI> <LI>Group detaunt song - this is very useful with increased DPS for scouts and mages, and the increased aggro from healing. I know the wording looks confusing, but it seems to work correctly.</LI> <LI>Aria's line looks very nice now, but I havent had a chance to parse my log and see if it lives up to the spell description.</LI> <LI>Upgrades to Evasion line.</LI></UL> Bad: <UL> <LI>Avoidance dropped from mid 70's to 34% - I dont care what you want to say about the numbers all being different after the patch, I take MUCH more damage now.</LI> <LI>Dont notice any benefit from Swan Song.</LI> <LI>Self buffs take 1 concentration, not worth using anymore. Even when soloing.</LI> <LI>Lost powertap from Guviena's Osmatic Ovation. Purloin Essence now returns a TINY bit of power but nowhere near what GOO used to.</LI> <LI>Graceful Avoidance line gone, changed into group defense buff. This self buff was amazing before, probably needed to be nerfed.</LI></UL> Comments: I was worried that my bow combat arts getting interrupted by movement would make it tougher to back up, fire, and return to the fight, but the shortened cast time makes it quicker than pre-patch. I think with the improvements to Charm, Mez, and Bria's one of our major roles is to be an enchanter when the group doesnt have a real one. That doesnt bother me too much as there arent many chanters around anyway. After one day of playing the thing the stands out the most to me is how Troubadors seem to have shifted from defense to offense. Aria's, Alin's, Bria's, Kian's - all buffed. Swan Song, Raxxyls (dont stack now), Graceful Avoidance, self buffs - all nerfed. I'll reserve my final judgement until I've had more time to play, but things are looking good so far. Kwix</DIV>

Claritin

09-14-2005, 07:06 PM

I have to say after everything was done with combat revamp I have a real hard time deciding what to play... I really value my regens... both of them (HP and Power).... obviously graceful avoidence helps as does raxxyl's as far as mitigating stuff and allowing the regens to work. Swansong, haste, aggro reducer, self-buff, resists, charm... man... so hard to pick. <DIV>I keep re-arranging... moving debuffs around to put them in more prominent locations... moving purloin to an area near my nukes... dropping stat buffs and moving in the hp regen...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>basically right now i don't know where anything is... it's kinda frustrating but after a few days I will get settled in. Problem is I 2-box so I am relearning and reorganizing 2 sets of spells at once... so when you all get frustrated think about us multi-boxers :smileytongue:</DIV>

MMThunda

09-14-2005, 10:21 PM

So far I'm actually really happy with the Troub changes. I can still solo handily (including even cons and yellows), and I've got actual versatility now. I can adapt to situations rather than just running just one of three song layouts (solo / group / MT group). My magic damage is devastating compared to what it used to be, and thats with only around 150 Int. I can debuff the everliving hell out of my targets (reducing their stats by over 100 and reducing their mental mitigation by more than 2000 for brief periods of time) and it costs me no concentration at all. I do get hit more, yes. I also kill the thing I'm fighting a lot faster, and thanks to the new and improved regen lines I'm back to full hp/power very quickly. The one problem I've run into so far is that large groups of weak enemies can take me out pretty quickly if I don't have room to run around. Charm is suddenly very useful again in this expansion but difficult to cast after a fight has started, and its also not easy to try to chain mez more than about two targets at once. I've had no trouble taking on any non-heroic single enemy so far, with the exception of one white ^ spellcaster who just barely forced me to run away after resisting a few mezzes. And, when I DO have room to run, I've managed to take on some of those same large groups of weak monsters (even Heroic ones) between my AoE, DoT, and debuffs. I haven't done enough grouping to say for sure yet how well the group buffs work in comparison to the solo song layouts I've tried. The only downsides to this expansion so far, for me at least, are somewhat selfish gripes about money (my guild level 25 horse was rendered obsolete and I seem to have lost a great deal of money on the purchase price of my 3 room house, heh) and some frustrating revalations about just HOW slow city factions rise if you do multiple writs. Combat-wise I'm rocking out over here. <div></div>

timpermafro

09-15-2005, 12:29 AM

<DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MMThundarr wrote: and some frustrating revalations about just HOW slow city factions rise if you do multiple writs. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> I think the current faction display is somewhat bugged. I've been churning out the Qeynos guard faction, doing about 50 or so writs for this faction alone. However, my faction display for Qeynos guards shows a very narrow sliver. There has to be something wrong with their visual scale for factions.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Tanani</DIV> <DIV>Troubador/Carpenter, Permafrost</DIV>

bellring

09-15-2005, 01:58 AM

the lower hate song works as my guild casters was more then happy big nukes no agro,i was tempted to drop it just to see them die. plus if song dont cover the troub you have your own line of lower hate songs.

Cheshirepezk

09-15-2005, 08:55 AM

Am I in the right forum? People actually seeing some positives here? <gasp> swift, I'm going to faint All in all I am satisfied with the changes, but am still a little disappointed at being tagged a nuke crazy caster's wet dream. I get casters that couldnt watch their aggro before complaining that they want me to be their little lachey now.

Swift_M

09-15-2005, 03:57 PM

i'm going to refrain from the typical "I told you so!" type post.. oh wait i said it. I told you so. I said it again! Omg! LOL. The changes are amazing, they did a great job and really listened to what we had to say. Very very happy and so happy the troub community is seeing what I have tried to tell them. Ridian McNight 50 Troubadour Enmity Najena <div></div>

Glamourpuss

09-15-2005, 04:45 PM

I play a 42 troub and am more than happy with the revamp <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" width=16 border=0> And from what I've been hearing in-game from conversations with guild members, and on the chat channels, so do the majority of other players. That's across all classes. Sure we have to make some changes to our play-styles, but don't we do that in a small way every time we adapt to the new spell, song or ca we receive as we level? This is just a little more involved and a lot more interesting. To tell the truth, the change wasn't that big. I was expecting a whole lot more, but it seems to be more refinements to our class than anything. The whole troub as a mage's sidekick thing I was hearing about just hasn't eventuated. I solo fine, I run FAST and my buffs look they will be plenty useful to fighters. Lastly, can I just get down on my knees and do what I have to do to thank the devs for giving me back a workable charm song! Thank you!

09-15-2005, 05:04 PM

<DIV>Update on swan song. Templar in my group was complaining of lots of fizzles so I decided to turn on swan song to see if it helped. He said he had no more fizzles the rest of the night (about an hour of nonstop fighting).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Kwix</DIV>

Andric_D

09-15-2005, 08:29 PM

<div></div> A lot of the better changes happened during the last two weeks and were in response to complaints & constructuve criticism not the 'everythings fine' posts when they were not . Very glad the dev's read and understood the problems and responded to them in a meaningful way. The only remaining issues are minor and I feel happy with the beta and the end results we have. Bards are good and a troub and a dirge both is a group is a great experience now -) <div></div>Message Edited by Andric_D on 09-15-2005 06:32 PM

VericSauvari

09-15-2005, 08:52 PM

<DIV>the only thing i am unhappy with (and its a minor minor thing) is im disappointed in some buffs only have 1 buff associated with it(ie, graceful avoidance..defense only.) Also the raxxyl line does not seem as important now as a must have buff to be up. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>other then that little nit pick i am pretty happy with my CC, the manasong upgrade is nice and we have a class defining skill again with Selo's</DIV>

ForgottenFoundling

09-15-2005, 09:40 PM

I LOVE this new troubador. We have WAY more utilty than we did before. I do WAY more DPS than before and I can still buff groups well. I'd say the only thing I can't do as well as pre-changes is tank. I get hit really hard now, but that really isn't an issue because our CC abilities make up for the damage we take. If we're patient we can take out many difficult encounters. There also seems to be much more strategizing to do for all situations.

Ladro209

09-15-2005, 09:49 PM

<div></div>I have to agree with most of these posts. Played 2 days now with my "new" Troubador and it's like an entirely new game. I opted to reset all my hotbuttons and start fresh and place things in the best order for my play style, adding spells I NEVER used. I have gotten into the groove of grouping once again and the amount of utility we provide now is EXACTLY why I played a bard (Troubador) in the first place. I am a happy Troubador now. Now it's time to start re-learning epic Raid mob encounters with my guild all over again o.O <div></div>Message Edited by Ladro209 on 09-15-2005 10:50 AM

Dingiswa

09-16-2005, 01:33 AM

<DIV>I too, am guilty of taking part in the troubador outcry of the past couple weeks, and I too am MORE than happy with the changes. We have tons of utility now, and there is much more strategy involved regarding what song to run when. In a group in Lavastorm last night (where the main healer was a fury, who was beside himself at how much better his heals had gotten post-patch) I used the new hate reducing song and our new 5 sec stun (/genuflect) to good effect dealing with adds, kept the mana regen and the Master II health spell going, kept up Raxxyl's and Daelis, and experimented with keeping a slot open for the charm. I have a feeling that alot of peeps will ignore the charm for more concrete things like defense, focus, etc, (im at 125/ 225 subjugation right now with Adept 1 Entrancing Sonnet, and it still breaks pretty often) but im grinding up the skill. There just something delicious about turning blightrats against eachother.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As long as we keep some form of invis, Ive got no beefs at all with the changes. I think if I stack sow with the Selo's line I might get reported for speed hacking. :smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Kweli L'Overture - 45 troubador, 15 scholar of Warlords - Lavastorm</DIV> <DIV>Zumbize Amado - 33 Monk, 34 tailor of Warlords - Lavastorm</DIV> Message Edited by Dingiswayo on 09-15-2005 02:35 PMMessage Edited by Dingiswayo on 09-15-2005 02:35 PM

Bellat

09-16-2005, 05:20 AM

<DIV> Had a group last night with me (Troubador (42), an illusionist (43), Guardian (43), and Mystic (43). Let me say this!! Put me and illusionist (43), in a group together and our buffs compliment each other to make a huge difference!. For one our mana regen stacks.. mine at 19.8 a tic his at 21 a tic means your getting 40.8 mana regen per tic in combat!! That’s the same as drinking a T4 drink!! At one point I did a very stupid thing and ran off down the wrong tunnel and died. Meanwhile the group fought a ^^^ and his minions.. they barely survived, and would not have without illusionist (43), pausing the fight with mezz on several occasions.. It ended up taking them say 5 to 10 min to complete the encounter. (me lying there feeling guilty as all hell, and im sure they got tired of me asking … are you done yet? and during pauses asking if I should revive, etc.) all their health was in the yellow, and mana virtually non existent. Success was due to extremely good tactics. My point though is after I was rezzed we ran into an identical group in the next tunnel. The encounter lasted 1 min max. all of us on nearly full mana, and no pause needed. Mystic (43). found out his wards now draw HUGE aggro. Guardian (43), found that his taunts seemed much less effective, and he got hit much much harder than in the old days. I found that my DPS was at least 10 times what it used to be, I now have a group spell DD proc buff that works on my songs (shrills, thunderous anthem and even purloin essence) which has a 30% chance to proc on every spell.. I saw it proc nearly every time, in some cases doubling my CA damage!! This buff works for every offensive spell, it even procs off illusionist (43), mez!! illusionist (43), found a buff he can throw on the tank to make a Huge diff to him keeping initial aggro and tanks dps. I also noticed illusionist (43), kept the mobs locked down with hardly any drama. I do believe (though it may be wishful thinking) that my group de aggro buff made a huge diff too.. even though Mystic (43) and illusionist (43), grabbed aggro off Guardian (43), he was able to get it back… and fairly quickly. Now sure how it happened while I was dead, since I was out of sight. But I did see everyone’s health go down… a lot. My group de aggro song as advertised reduces all non fighters aggro per tic by 51, and further reduces it for any non fighter that gets hit (the char tht gets hit gets a aggro debuff per hit on top of the amount per tic) This is the first time I have felt that I make a good contribution to any group. Before the combat revamp I might.. just might.. squeeze out two shrills and a few flank attacks per encounter.. since the casting time was soooo long.. and the second or third shrill would not hit since I started casting it while mob as at 5% and it would die before the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] thing went off!! Now I hammer away and am able get off my dots interrupts and mob debuffers (all which used to use a concentration slot and therefore I hardly used) anthem Purloin essence, and shrill, and if I have time… maybe some mele attacks (which seem to be much less beneficial to use since no awesome proc on them) I had only just got opus (and never used it as I found the haste pitiful and the def buff at adept 1 was only 4) I did not have swan song, and so I used to use the three stat buffs and Brias and maybe leave a slot for debuff or de aggro song.. The buffs I have found to work best so far were (sorry no names, but I will list the effects) Non combat selos.. 34% run speed … whooooooooooooot Combat: Group focus and casting buff .. increases spells by 15.5 and focus by 31 Group spell proc buff 30% chance to add a Direct Damage per offensive spell of 115-195 Group defensive buff raises defense by 11.8 Group mana regen 19.8 per tic Group aggro de-buffer affects all non fighters only. Decreases aggro by 51 per tic and gives an instant de-agrro to any non fighter that gets hit in the group. I also have available (requiring a conc slot each) 19% haste, which under new rules stacks with illusionist (43) haste (different spell lines) item perm haste, and item or class proc haste. Group str and sta buff (raises stats by 35 atm) Group health regen (only 25 a tic at the moment, but I get an upgrade I think at 43 or 44 which will up that to 40+ per tic) A charm.. yes I can charm a mob now costs 1 concentration lasts 2 min 30 seconds!! Makes the mob my pet. I cant ask it to attack or that breaks the charm, but I have tested, and if the pet options are on to protect me… then when I get hit.. my new pet gets vewy vewy angwy!! Nice option now for ghetto mezz, etc. Still aint had time to solo much yet We had a blast, and I can’t wait to group tonight! P.S. I hope Swift feels vindicated by these positive posts.. I loved my troub before, but now I love the class so much better!! Finetune 42 Troubador Aurora Australis Najena</DIV>

ReturnOfMadness

09-16-2005, 12:41 PM

/signed

thorvang

09-16-2005, 01:43 PM

i love the new troub <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> it's way more versatile and more fun to play than before.last night i did the job as a tank again. before the changes troubs were good tanks, but it's been boring ^^ just hit swan song and resist buffs again and again and you'll maintain aggro.gaining aggro seems to have been removed from those buffs. so i started to use mezz and charm... FUN! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> get me 2 adds, 3 adds, 4 adds. no problem, i'll just mezz and charm them all <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Sharkan

09-16-2005, 04:39 PM

I'm a lvl 32 troubadour, and i have to say i like the changes so far <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> The class looks more versatile, more "dynamic" with a nice increase in damage (though we might be taking slightly more dmg), and usefull buffs and debuffs. Oh, and with selo being back, and our little charm (though, i find it hardly usable : very long casting time, only 2 mins lasting, and it often breaks in the middle of a fight for no reason) i now have the feeling i'm playing the class i wanted to play : a Troubadour jack of all trades, master of none ! There are also good overal changes, with more logical spell and combat line, less skills (they finally understood the point wasn't to have 10 spells doing all the same thing but only 5 with different interests) and little twicks making your life easier like the stun stuning for good (you don't have to press the "stop attack" button before moving to the back of your target to backstab anymore) I hope all the other class are as happy as i am with the changes <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Well done SOE !

Odius

09-16-2005, 06:18 PM

<DIV>Well I loved my trouby before but now I LOVE him! :smileyvery-happy: Although I did buy that 32% horse and now have a 28% run speed buff...but hey it's awesome!</DIV>

Asheb

09-16-2005, 07:51 PM

Adding my praise for the revamp. I finally got a chance to take my troubador out for an hour to relearn the spells. I really like having a standard set of buffs that does not take all 5 concentration slots. It looks like I'll have a standard 3: self-buff stats, group-buff stats, and defense buff; one slot for group-dependent (aria, spell skill buff, haste); and one for actually reacting to to the combat situation. That last one really changes the amount of thinking I GET to do in the course of combat. A big improvement over just figuring out where to stand. Playing an unusual race/class combination, I have some observations that might help other Troubadors. As an erudite, I started with a high intelligence and have lots of access to intelligence-boosting traits. At level 44, selecting intelligence-boosting gear, I'm able to get over 220 intelligence. This looks like a very viable alternative to DPS through strength and melee. Granted I was testing on low green-con mobs, but my ability to deal bursts of high amounts damage seems to be very good. I like the change. Playing a troubador has more interaction, and our utility seems to be even more than before.

Joeble

09-16-2005, 10:23 PM

Ok, it is really nice to see that I'm not the only one who LOVES the new Troubador! It isn't like we got the perfect spell or anything, and it definitely took some adjustment, but once I got the hang of it, well....wow! Was in a weekly XP group last night and we all noticed how much better the group was - and with tough mobs or named, the ability to debuff it constantly really made a difference! Also, anyone else notice their dmg spells and abilities actually doing dmg in line with other classes? Was happy to see some 400's come up, and more. Plus the reduced casting time is a huge bonus. A few downsides, Raxxyl's as someone mentioned <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> but overall I'm VERY happy with my Troubador at lvl 41. Joeble

Swift_M

09-17-2005, 05:57 PM

Think I'm going to cry.. Great you all are loving the changes =) Ridian McNight 53 Troubadour Enmity Najena <div></div>

09-17-2005, 06:20 PM

I take back what I said about Dance of Blades not being worth the concentration. Im using it alot while solo'ing now. With the change to Aria of Excitement the majority of my damage now comes from songs and shouts instead of melee. Time for me to stop neglecting intellegence. Kwix

Asheb

09-17-2005, 09:08 PM

Update from the field. I was in a Permafrost group last night with extra healing, a plus-level tank, and an assassin. So, I felt comfortable trying out different equipment and spell combinations. I used Alin's Soothing to manage the aggro, and Aria for the spell proc. I went all-out on intelligence gear and bumped it to over 250. Then I let fly with all the little quick coin-icon spells as fast as they came up: cheap-shot, snare and Lore's. Almost without fail one of the 3 would trigger the additional damamge. Combined with Bellow and a shriek, and debuff, I felt like I was cranking out alot of dps. I'm curious to find out if anything in a player's knowledge book under the 'spells' tab has a chance to trigger aria. If so, that's a powerful spell.

WorldsAway_Nybor

09-18-2005, 01:55 AM

<DIV>Just back from holiday, and after a 16 hour session (!) I concur troubadours are infinitely more fun than they were before. Both soloing and in groups it was great being able to use a much wider range of spells and abilities. I don't have many problems taking on solo encounters. The mages I've grouped with today were delighted with some of the songs (in particular hate reduction, mana regen and aria). Can't wait to get raiding again and see how that goes :smileyhappy: </DIV>

NighthawkX

09-19-2005, 02:17 PM

Yep agreed I am loving the troubador even more than before. They fixed a lot of the things we complained about before. And yes Aria is now the bomb. What an awesome spell line now. Kian's can I say wow what an improvement love it. And these were considered worthless before. Both mana and power regens worth it now. I hated and always thought the buff stacking was rediculous before so no problems with that being fixed, sure I can't solo an epic any more after i get its mana gone. But heh I love it. Yes like others have said we are now multi dimensional based on the situation, not always the same buffs always. And yes my damage is skyrocketed and so does the group with me. I give the troubador revamp an A+. Message Edited by NighthawkX on 09-19-2005 03:18 AM

Sile

09-19-2005, 11:14 PM

Ofcourse it's more fun to play right now, it's different. Plenty of new stuff to learn/experiment with. I think it will take time for it to really play out though. We played the Troubador pretty much as-is for 10 months (well, some of us). I'm looking forward to seeing how the class progresses through to 60 and 3-4 months into raiding. <div></div>

Suite

10-10-2005, 10:51 PM

Hi, all. I just wanted to thank everyone who contributed to this thread in a positive way. My original main was my troubador, Suite. But after I started playing her, and then tried the other scout classes, I was very disappointed in what SOE did with bards in EQ2. I gave up my troubador and made my templar my main. Since LU13, the priests are nerfed and my templar isn't what she was. She is still my main, but I've regretted not having a scout class I love. This thread has given me some hope for Suite. Maybe I will let her out of the closet, blow the dust off of her, and take the duct tape off her mouth so she can sing again. :smileyvery-happy: Eliana