Power Taps are worthless now.

[MorDeca]

With the recent buffing of Epic mob regen, our power taps are now completely worthless.  Why even give us these spells if we can't get the mobs power below 95%?  As soon as it ticks it's regen, it's back up to 100% again.  This completely defeats the purpose of these spells.  Please address this issue devs, we should be able to drain a mobs power, not stand there and do our best to keep it at 95%.

[WorldsAway_Nybor]

<FONT size=2></FONT> <DIV><FONT size=2>Can you give more details of the epic mob regen and if it is on live or test? I was in a raid tonight taking on King Zalak and we were able to completely drain him of all power well within a minute; none of it regenerated. I've also been in a number of other raids recently and been charged with power draining, which was succesful everytime. Is it only certain epic encounters? </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Nevermind I found it in the notes :smileyhappy:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>"Many henchmen of epic boss mobs now possess improved power regeneration and have a greater chance hit their opponents."</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>So I guess it's just some mobs, and I see it says "many henchmen of epic mobs", which would indicate their sidekicks and not the main beasty. I don't generally think about draining the power of henchmen as it will inevitably be the big one that is going to hit hard. Any caster/healer additional mobs tend to be targeted by the MT first and taken down quickly by the raid. I still find this one of our most useful and powerful spells.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV><p>Message Edited by WorldsAway_Nybor on <span class=date_text>05-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:15 PM</span>

[MorDeca]

From May 19th patch notes : "Raid NPCs that are level 50+ will now have the ability to regen their power. Additionally, their melee auto-attacks will be slightly hasted." Every instance boss and contested mob that I've fought in the last few days since they buffed up the regen on Epics has been un-drainable.  With 2 Troubs and 2 Chanters draining, we cannot get it past about 90%... it immediately ticks right back up to 100%.  This includes all instance bosses [ King Zalak, Arch Lich Udalan, Pkzwk Tzkr, Overlord Oxulus, and Tremblar the Behemoth ], all of the named encounters in the Froglock instance in CT, and all of the contested mobs that have popped since the patch. It's rediculous.

[WorldsAway_Nybor]

Hmm that's odd, as Zalak never regenerated for us and it didn't take us long to drain him, with just me and one other troubador. Not sure who else in the raid was able to drain but there were no enchanters. Is it possible that this has been tweaked? Like I said, it was just a few hours ago that we were fighting Zalak.

[MorDeca]

I also fought Zalak about an hour ago, and this issue still existed.  I have a Master I of Purloin Essence, and Adept II's of everything else [ Taffo's, Sandra's, etc ].  As a matter of fact, there's hardly anything I don't have Adept III or higher.  I used to be able to drain this stuff solo in a minute or so, but lately after this patch, it regens to 100% before I can even get it below 90%.  The other Troub in my guild also agrees that this new regen is extreme, as he's noticing the same things I am.

[WorldsAway_Nybor]

<P><FONT size=2>Well something must be wrong somewhere :smileytongue:</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>I agree if it is impossible to drain an epic mobs power (it's not like they don't put up a helluva fight when drained anyway) then something ought to be done. I know some people have complained that the end game raids are too easy but personally I find it very challenging - even with the ability to drain Zalaks power we were eventually defeated after 4 attempts tonight. To have our main raid ability made useless is pretty devastating for troubadors, as all we will be doing is buffing then staying out of the way. They are nearly always immune or resistant to piercing and slashing, our attacks are pretty dire and we don't really have any other in-combat utility to offer besides the power tap</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>Hmph</FONT></P>

[MorDeca]

Something is definately wrong, I agree =) It would be nice if we could get some other Troubadors to chime in on this, however I realize that we are few and far between, so that might take awhile to happen.  I only hope that we can get this issue looked at by the devs at least.

[WorldsAway_Nybor]

<P>Oh they all left, it's just you and me now :smileytongue:</P> <P>At least we still outnumber the coercers :smileywink:</P>

[FredonEQ1]

<DIV>Troubador Rocks :smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fredon </DIV> <DIV>Troubador lvl 34 </DIV> <DIV>Member of Illumanati</DIV><p>Message Edited by FredonEQ1 on <span class=date_text>05-30-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:53 AM</span>

[Frogsley]

I too think the regen is now unbalanced. Not that many raids would have a full suite of Troubs, Inquisitors and Illusionists going full out on the mana drains - but even with these classes it is taking too long to drain the main target of power. It's now far more efficient to just do dps to kill the target quicker. Yet again - NICE TESTING. <div></div>

[Claritin]

<P>We drained Zalak... 2 Troubs, 1 Illusionist, 1 Coercer... it was after this patch... I know we killed him a couple more times after that but I was not in on the raids (I have been giving up my raid slot to people who wanted it while I do other stuff in game that needs my attention)</P> <P>Even though we got him drained... I was NOT HAPPY.... let me explain... we drained him to 0%... and he popped back up to like 7% and we drained him to 0% quickly.. and then back to 7% and the drained again. etc etc etc... so YES we managed to drain him and  yes we could keep sticking him back down to 0%... </P> <P>HOWEVER... if a mob has 7% power... he can use it.... and he had 7% power almost half the time after he was drained... and he was about half dead before he was drained to begin with.</P> <P>So some quick math... halfway through the fight he was OOP... after that he was only OOP half the time due to regen ticks and casting delays on the power draining guys.... so that puts him as OOP 25% of the raid.</P> <P>BUT WAIT!... THERE'S MORE!</P> <P>They hasted his attacks for when he is OOP... this means even making him OOP and keeping him there has less value.</P> <P>OK... so let me do a number crunch here...</P> <P>25% OOP... and hasted... so only partially valuable at that... lets say 15% over all damage reduction. (10% increase in OOP mobs DPS due to haste)</P> <P>This took 4 people constantly draining to accomplish.</P> <P>max raid size is 24</P> <P>4 power drainers = 1/6 of raid... 16.6%</P> <P>16.6% of raid dedicated to draining power rather than DPS... with a net effect of 15% less DPS from the mob.</P> <P>Now exactly why would people want to bring in a well balanced raid party?  I mean... that was a goal right?  Make sure you have buffers, debuffers, power drainers, healers, DPS, and tanks?  Wel now a "raid role" has been trivialized to the point of it not really being a "role"  You can do it... or you can choose to heal more, increase dps, tank better, debuff better, or buff better... just about anything you do instead of power draining will do JUST FINE.</P> <P>To restore a minimal amount of usefulness to the spell line you need to do this :</P> <P>Double tick the regen.... although I hate blizzard... i will use an analogy from Diablo... you drink a potion... you increase your amount of health line... but it takes a little time to become useable... you can drink a 600 HP health potion.. and die from a 200 HP hit because only 100HP of the potion had taken effect.</P> <P>What I am saying is if Zalak has to regen 7% power a tick... FINE... that's over kill... but I can deal with that... but I must be able to hold him at empty 100% of the time after I get him to empty if I desire to invest the resources to do so.</P> <P>so every 6 secs he gets 7% power... but he can't use that 7% until the next 6 second tick... if I don't drain he will have 7% availible with 7% *reserve*... the 3rd tick woul have him at 14% power with still 7% reserve however if I do drain that 7% he never had a chance to use it... you should always drain the usable power first... then the reserved.</P>

[Claritin]

BTW... I just want to repeat... yes we have killed him since this patch... however we already have loot from raid mobs... and prismatics... I'm thinking of the lvl 50 guilds with non-raided gear (and this is the easiest raidable mob)... and class balance.. both of which SoE apparently "forgot"

[Damascus0]

Yes the regen is fairly extreme now.  A nice example is Krakan the Wary from CT froggies instance.  We managed to drain this guy tonight for a change (been undrainable in previous kills) and then BAM ! he regens 100% of his power.  Proceed to full drain him again only to have him go back to full again... proceed to give up and go dps. Since that patch mobs that you can actually power drain seem to be the exception rather than the rule.  Even the MT is actually commenting to me when we find a raid mob that can be drained, they're that rare.  Also it isn't isn't certain types or anything that can be drained.  Do old faithful (Zalak) enough and you'll see that sometimes he can be drained and others he can't.  This happens for almost every epic mob I've come across.  Basically you give him a couple of goes on full drain and if nothing is happening (it's pretty obvious when you go hardcore and he regens it all in one tick) you switch to dps. Yes I know people complain about us sucking at dps, but honestly we don't.  Averaging 130-140 dps on the epic fights and thats without fabled weaponry or prismatic.  Elegant blade -> Sandra's -> Taffoe's -> Equisite Shrill -> Bow art (whatever its called) -> Sandra's -> Taffoe's -> Rinse, repeat. With only a manastone and bria's I can keep that routine going throughout an epic encounter no probs.  Just remember to use the manastone and get your ranged up so the bow combat art lands (HUGE help on dps and power tap rocks) Power drain now seems to be there for when you're soloing grp encounters or the occasional grey epic.... so sad to see yet another part of our vaunted utility being phased out of the game. Fiddler Bridgeburner Rat Bard of Veni Vidi Vici Najena P.S. Fix the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] Aria lines... they rock when you throw them on a group of dual wielders (also be nice to have at least one lvl 50 spell thats useful, kk thnx) <div></div>

[MadisonPark]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> WorldsAway_Nybor wrote:<BR> Hmm that's odd, as Zalak never regenerated for us and it didn't take us long to drain him, with just me and one other troubador. Not sure who else in the raid was able to drain but there were no enchanters. Is it possible that this has been tweaked? Like I said, it was just a few hours ago that we were fighting Zalak.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Did you have an inquisitor? They have a debuff with a 5% chance to power drain with each allies' successful attack.</DIV>

[WorldsAway_Nybor]

<P>I don't recall an inquisitor, although even then Zalak did not regenerate at all, even when the healers got through to him. Either he was bugged or my being on Splitpaw (different patch times) has confsed things. We did defeat him this Saturday and I was draining power, although I have to admit I cant remember how that went and if he went to 0%. I'll pay attention next time :smileyhappy:</P>

[windse]

<P>We are not worthless on power drain..i can still drain king dreyek(non fire and ice) before first set of add with 12 person raid..</P> <P>He is just a different class../wizzy most of the time</P> <P>Windsend</P> <P>50 Troubador/guk server</P>

[windse]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Claritin wrote:<BR> BTW... I just want to repeat... yes we have killed him since this patch... however we already have loot from raid mobs... and prismatics... I'm thinking of the lvl 50 guilds with non-raided gear (and this is the easiest raidable mob)... and class balance.. both of which SoE apparently "forgot"<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>King Zalak is still a push over.. no prob for a 24 person raid wearing fulginate armor using adept 1's....we can do him with 10 people atm..2 of them were just there for buffs and had no one at the computers, they did nothing but stand still the entire raid..and 2 were being swaped during the raid on one pc....only downside is that it took us 35 mins</P> <P>Windsend</P> <P>50 Troubador/Guk Server</P>

[Claritin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> windsend wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Claritin wrote:<BR> BTW... I just want to repeat... yes we have killed him since this patch... however we already have loot from raid mobs... and prismatics... I'm thinking of the lvl 50 guilds with non-raided gear (and this is the easiest raidable mob)... and class balance.. both of which SoE apparently "forgot"<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>King Zalak is still a push over.. no prob for a 24 person raid wearing fulginate armor using adept 1's....we can do him with 10 people atm..2 of them were just there for buffs and had no one at the computers, they did nothing but stand still the entire raid..and 2 were being swaped during the raid on one pc....only downside is that it took us 35 mins</P> <P>Windsend</P> <P>50 Troubador/Guk Server</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I have to disagree with that... there are still raids of 24 people all lvl 50 that fail that raid... he isn't a push over.... he's a intro-to-raiding mob... and is at the appropriate difficulty level.  His loot is not all that fantastic as a result.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Full fulginate will not cut it... well maybe everyone but the Main Tank... but you also all need the appropriate legendary or fabled weaps of the correct type (Pierce, slash, crush) you have to have the correct people doing the correct things at the correct times.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>MT should be in full ebon if the rest of the guild is in fulginate at the very least... and it will be one hell of a fight as your first raid ever.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's real easy for those of us in strong guilds to forget what it was like when you had less than 24 people on raids and in less than uber gear and not all max level... I haven't forgotten... Zalak used to be hard... yes now we do him with like 16 people without too much issue... but our gear is good... our organization is good... and we are all max level.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When you start on Zalak it should be a mix of 45-50 members... 24 of them... and you should be able to do it with exactly ZERO fabled loots.... full rare imbued armor should not be needed on anyone but main tank... and it should be expected that 1/3 of your dual wielders might not have 2 weapons that can hit Zalak... it's your FIRST raid mob ever... we can't expect all mobs to be a challenge for peeps like you and I.</DIV>

[Jehannum]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Claritin wrote:<BR><BR><BR> <DIV>I have to disagree with that... there are still raids of 24 people all lvl 50 that fail that raid... he isn't a push over.... he's a intro-to-raiding mob... and is at the appropriate difficulty level.  His loot is not all that fantastic as a result.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>Agree fully.  He's a pushover once you get the hang of it, but the first few times (and even occasionally thereafter, with a bit of bad luck) it's easy to wipe even with far more power than strictly should be necessary.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Full fulginate will not cut it... well maybe everyone but the Main Tank... but you also all need the appropriate legendary or fabled weaps of the correct type (Pierce, slash, crush) you have to have the correct people doing the correct things at the correct times.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff00>Full fulginate and maxed-out defensive buffs will do it, in the right scenario.</FONT>  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>MT should be in full ebon if the rest of the guild is in fulginate at the very least... and it will be one hell of a fight as your first raid ever.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's real easy for those of us in strong guilds to forget what it was like when you had less than 24 people on raids and in less than uber gear and not all max level... I haven't forgotten... Zalak used to be hard... yes now we do him with like 16 people without too much issue... but our gear is good... our organization is good... and we are all max level.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When you start on Zalak it should be a mix of 45-50 members... 24 of them... and you should be able to do it with exactly ZERO fabled loots.... full rare imbued armor should not be needed on anyone but main tank... and it should be expected that 1/3 of your dual wielders might not have 2 weapons that can hit Zalak... it's your FIRST raid mob ever... we can't expect all mobs to be a challenge for peeps like you and I.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Just to wrench this somewhat back to where it began though... I'm not sure, but I think that either epic mana regen is very buggy, or just doesn't display properly sometimes.  Since the initial changes (after which no further changes were posted that I know of for sure) to enhance their regen, I've been in several zalak/drayek fights since our guild's working at that (and at getting our raid force into a semblance of disciplined order).  I've noticed that he really doesn't seem a lot more difficult to raid, perhaps a little, but some very odd things seem to happen with his power.  Of the past 8 Zalak raids I've attended (all in the past week and a half or so) I've seen his mana bar dip on 6.  The other two, he never even 'grew' a bar (was just health alone, the whole time).  Of those 6 times it dipped, 4 of them (and they weren't in order or I'd mention it) he got drained all the way empty and stayed there.  Of the other two, once he got drained all the way and kept rebounding by somewhere around 20-ish percent, and while we managed to drain him again a time or two it's questionable as to its effectiveness.  The other, he got drained to about 75-80%, twice, before rebounding to full and collapsing his power bar.  I can only think that the massive power regen of epic mobs must be another random <EM>potential</EM> ability rather than an always-on, as a result.  Either that or we got some really crappy RNG action going on for a couple of raids.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>

[WorldsAway_Nybor]

<P>It's buggy, yeah. Last time I posted, I was having no problems draining epic encounters, but since then I've had mixed results. Taking Zalak as the example, one night we were unable to drain him until the 3rd attempt, the next time we could drain right from the start, and a week after we weren't able to drain at all. Same thing has happened on other epics as well.</P> <P>We've still managed to come out on top without draining, but it is something that really ought to work properly on epics, since it is of debatable use in solo or heroic situations unless a caster with a lot of hp is involved.</P> <P> </P>

[windse]

<DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Clairitin wrote</DIV> <DIV>I have to disagree with that... there are still raids of 24 people all lvl 50 that fail that raid... he isn't a push over.... he's a intro-to-raiding mob... and is at the appropriate difficulty level.  His loot is not all that fantastic as a result. <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have to agree and disagree with you on this. If you knew the statagy he was cake, if you did not he was considerably tougher.</DIV> <DIV>As for his loots..King Zalak does drop some nice skill 265 items(rare) but still nice</DIV> <DIV>As of yesterday though the encounter is alot tougher after the patch.</DIV> <DIV>Ohh and when we kill him he is always 70-100% power when he drops /wink.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Windsend</DIV> <DIV>50 Troubador/Guk</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV>

[thorvang]

i don't even care about draining the mob anymore the last few raids. maybe you're able to drain them, maybe you're not. but whats the matter? you're able to kill them anyhow.it's weird that soe didn't only removes downtimes, but further completely removes the meaning of "mana". mobs have an unlimited support, players have regen + chanters, still granting nearly unlimited mana. fights lasting 30 minutes aren't even a problem...

[windse]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> thorvang wrote:<BR>i don't even care about draining the mob anymore the last few raids. maybe you're able to drain them, maybe you're not. but whats the matter? you're able to kill them anyhow.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>I agree...the only one i power drain anymore(out of the epic instances) is king dreyek b/c he can ice comet and we do it with less people so it save healers power. He seems to stay depleted though..not sure why he has no regen. Maybee b/c his master chests are like 3 out of 10 kills.</P> <P> </P> <P>Windsend </P> <P>50 Troubador/Guk<BR></P> <p>Message Edited by windsend on <span class=date_text>07-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:59 AM</span>

[JackFrost]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> thorvang wrote:<BR>i don't even care about draining the mob anymore the last few raids. maybe you're able to drain them, maybe you're not. but whats the matter? you're able to kill them anyhow.<BR><BR>it's weird that soe didn't only removes downtimes, but further completely removes the meaning of "mana". mobs have an unlimited support, players have regen + chanters, still granting nearly unlimited mana. fights lasting 30 minutes aren't even a problem...<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>SOE is doing something huge about power issues.  They are nerfing regen items and making regen effects not stack.  Our regen songs are gonna mean something now with all the changes.