stop complaining please - i don't even notice a difference

[texwood]

<DIV>Lvl 28 Troubadour here.</DIV> <DIV>I just soloed some lvl 24 ++ giants.</DIV> <DIV>Same as before patch, no difference at all.</DIV> <DIV>Then i soloed some lvl 24 ++ ash owlbears. Same</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mind you songster's luck ( and upgrades) is our best spell.</DIV> <DIV>At lvl 28.0 i had big trouble soloing the 24++ giants</DIV> <DIV>(lvl 28.0 + songsters luck = lvl 28.8 )</DIV> <DIV>Now at lvl 28.6 its really easy</DIV> <DIV>(lvl 28.6 + songsters = lvl 25.4 )</DIV> <DIV>I always feel a bit gimped at the beginning of a level,</DIV> <DIV>but it gets better with each 20 %.</DIV> <DIV>When i get minstrels this will change , as minsterls adept 1 adds + 6 to skills.</DIV> <DIV>I got songsters adept 1 btw.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Troubadours still rock ( me at least <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV>(Not saying there's not a lot of stuff to be fixed...)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit:</DIV> <DIV>Sorry for short-sightedness</DIV> <DIV>Didn't think of groupplay and higher levels.</DIV> <DIV>Just found that my solo ability was ok this morning</DIV> <DIV>So forget this post.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by texwood on <SPAN class=date_text>03-22-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:17 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by texwood on <span class=date_text>03-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:50 AM</span>

[Koman]

<P>Glad you're happy Texwood; I'm not.  I can't afford to be ANY weaker than I all ready am, thank you very much!  </P> <P> </P>

[Uchiha Itac]

Being only 28 you can't possibly be aware of the stacking problems because you don't have vivacious dissant and perhaps not even any trait buffs yet. Songsters is quite possibly the worst song I've ever seen and I never play it. If you saw how vhalens + raxxyls v + raxxyls d + niv's harmony worked prepatch and maybe even pre the agility nerf you'd be voicing a very very different opinion. And raid buffing? what about that? For that songsters is even more ridiculous.<div></div>

[texwood]

<P>Ok i can't speak about raiding, thats true.</P> <P>But you know agi and str didn't do that much after the agi nerf patch.</P> <P>I always had raxxyls and vhalens up, but i don't see a difference now.</P> <P>And you know what ?</P> <P>If i don't play songsters i couldn't solo those giants. Simple as.</P> <P>Songsters line is our strongest weapon.</P> <P> </P> <P>Did anyone really think it was intended that all stat buffs stack. </P> <P>Not me.</P> <P> </P> <P>But...</P> <P>definitely they should give back a meaning to the stats</P> <P>Stats mean almost nothing at the moment</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>edited typos</P> <P> </P> <P>Message Edited by texwood on <SPAN class=date_text>03-22-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:46 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by texwood on <span class=date_text>03-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:49 AM</span>

[Valdas]

<P>I believe that there are two very different issues here.  Many of the issues concerning lower level Troubadours seem to have been corrected.  As a general comment, I am happy with my 32 Troubadour.  At level 28, he took a 2 month hiatus as some of the major AC and AGI changes were put into effect.  He now does quite well soloing green^^.  I find that I can mix my HoT, mana regen, haste, stat buffs and mob stat debuff throughout the battle to be effective.</P> <P>In groups, I can be competitive with DPS.  I can generally compete with most tanks for most DPS, but a determined caster or assassin can easily use some mana and beat my best effort.</P> <P>The other issue is the high end game.  My experience does not compare to level 50 raids (or any raids), but it gives me hope.  The developers are clearly addressing issues.  The pace is not fast enough for some, but it is fine for others.</P> <P>I will take the word of the other posters that there are raid issues and stacking issues.  I hope that they shout out these problems.  I hope that they are fixed before I get the opportunity to experience them for myself.</P> <P>I started a bard (troubadour) to be a difference maker in encounters.  Troubadours are not difference makers.  Their group abilities are subtle and raid abilities are non-existant.  I expected to see more abilities that were similar to EQ1 bards.  My 7 power per tick regen and 11% haste are less than thrilling.  The usefulness of the stat buffs has been debated in this forum.  There are no awesome resist buffs (at least not at my level).  My run speed is at a 16% bonus, not 70%.  I cannot cast group invisibility.  My best ability seems to be mana drain.</P> <P><A href="mailto:Arnaut@Mistmoore" target=_blank>Arnaut@Mistmoore</A><BR><A href="mailto:Tynker@Mistmoore" target=_blank>Tynker@Mistmoore</A></P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Valdas]

<DIV>  </DIV><p>Message Edited by Valdas on <span class=date_text>03-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:14 AM</span>

[Tzvi]

<DIV>Well, some people say our songster luck line of spells is the best. This is true for soloing. You can raise your defence and thus not allowing green mobs hit you at all. But this affects avoiding damage, not reducing it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When you fight in groups you almost always fight higher level mobs which will hit your group even when you do raise your defence a bit. Our agility buffs raises the AC of the group so the damage taken is far less then what it should be (I'm level 40 and could buff myself for about 600 AC). And this is without taking HP upgrade for everyone in the group into account, or increasing our mana pool (less downtime for the group), or increasing the damage output etc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What I'm trying to say is that while soloing type of play might have hurt a bit, but group play is almost non-exitance now.</DIV>

[texwood]

<P>Good point Tzvika.</P> <P>Songsters line is useless when fighting higher lvl mobs in group.</P> <P>For soloing it rocks.</P> <P> </P> <P>What do you use in group now after this patch ?</P> <P> </P> <P>My setup would be:</P> <P>Raxxyls, Gerards, Brias, and arcane resist ?</P> <P>Not sure</P>

[burrito]

You won't notice a diffrence till around 40... you'll be coming back whining and kicking :smileyhappy:

[texwood]

<P>Ok, forget about my post.</P> <P>Just logged into the game this morning and soloed some stuff, which was ok.</P> <P>Didn't even think of group playing and higher levels.</P> <P> </P> <P>Sorry for short-sightedness...</P>

[Aleator]

You're only level 28. Please. It's a different ballgame 45+, trust me. <div></div>

[duc7]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tzvika wrote:<BR> <DIV>Well, some people say our songster luck line of spells is the best. This is true for soloing. You can raise your defence and thus not allowing green mobs hit you at all. But this affects avoiding damage, not reducing it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When you fight in groups you almost always fight higher level mobs which will hit your group even when you do raise your defence a bit. Our agility buffs raises the AC of the group so the damage taken is far less then what it should be (I'm level 40 and could buff myself for about 600 AC). And this is without taking HP upgrade for everyone in the group into account, or increasing our mana pool (less downtime for the group), or increasing the damage output etc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What I'm trying to say is that while soloing type of play might have hurt a bit, but group play is almost non-exitance now.</DIV> <P><BR></P> <HR> <P> </P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Texwood wrote:<BR> <DIV> <P>Good point Tzvika.</P> <P>Songsters line is useless when fighting higher lvl mobs in group.</P> <P>For soloing it rocks.</P> <P></P> <HR> </DIV> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>If you think that buffs ( any buffs ) should put you on a level playing field with HIGHER level mobs then you are delusional.</P> <P>They are there to give you more survivability against them rather than getting wiped in the beginning rounds of of fight, after that its your group make-up and tactics that will help you win.</P> <P> </P> <P>Grayl, 40th Lvl Troubador</P>

[Cheshirepezk]

<P>Yes I agree, just wait.. If you had been higher (no offense) and seen the capabilities of a troubador come the beguinning of game, you wouldn't be happy.</P> <P>I'm glad I never used my /respec... I'll sit on it until say next year or so.. lol..</P> <P>I disagree that come raiding, we are less useful however.  I'm in the MT group consistently and know that I'm valued just as any other player there.</P> <P>Until then, yes enjoy your charm, it will help immensely come soloing.. can't tell you enough how useful that was even if I just needed it to stay put long enough to run, or kill one, in a group of mobs...   I only wish that the level 50 mez worked for us all</P> <P>It will get fixed I'm sure though, if not we will all have to adjust.  I know it's hard to be positive at times like these, but believe me, we will only be the better for it.</P>

[Midget of Death]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> texwood wrote:<BR> <DIV><STRONG>Lvl 28 Troubadour here.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV>I just soloed some lvl 24 ++ giants.</DIV> <DIV>Same as before patch, no difference at all.</DIV> <DIV>Then i soloed some lvl 24 ++ ash owlbears. Same</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mind you songster's luck ( and upgrades) is our best spell.</DIV> <DIV>At lvl 28.0 i had big trouble soloing the 24++ giants</DIV> <DIV>(lvl 28.0 + songsters luck = lvl 28.8 )</DIV> <DIV>Now at lvl 28.6 its really easy</DIV> <DIV>(lvl 28.6 + songsters = lvl 25.4 )</DIV> <DIV>I always feel a bit gimped at the beginning of a level,</DIV> <DIV>but it gets better with each 20 %.</DIV> <DIV>When i get minstrels this will change , as minsterls adept 1 adds + 6 to skills.</DIV> <DIV>I got songsters adept 1 btw.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Troubadours still rock ( me at least <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV>(Not saying there's not a lot of stuff to be fixed...)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit:</DIV> <DIV>Sorry for short-sightedness</DIV> <DIV>Didn't think of groupplay and higher levels.</DIV> <DIV>Just found that my solo ability was ok this morning</DIV> <DIV>So forget this post.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by texwood on <SPAN class=date_text>03-22-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:17 AM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by texwood on <SPAN class=date_text>03-22-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:50 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>The part I highlighted explains it all.  Bards don't come into their own until lvl 30. </DIV>

[Longspo]

<DIV>well once again i am left at a loss as to whatever i must be doing wrong, because i know for a fact that there is no way i could solo a firerock scout (24^^).  Im a 28 Troub running:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Raxxyl's</DIV> <DIV>Songster's</DIV> <DIV>Bria's Thrilling (post-patch rousing tune slot)</DIV> <DIV>Elise's ditty</DIV> <DIV>Performer's Talent</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All my armor is AQ, all my jewelry is white or better...</DIV> <DIV>Im using my Troub quest sword and an orange shield...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>heck with ad1 Arcane Chorus up i was taken into the orange by a Varsoon Apprentice (25solo)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/sigh</DIV>

[Valdas]

<P>Longspoon,</P> <P>You may want to try using Reproaching Discante (reduces STR and AGI on target group) and Insatiable Ardor (increase parry skill).  I also suggest that you stop using Elises Ditty since it drains <STRONG>your</STRONG> mana pool.  At 28, you get Swindle Essense.  This is the best spell that you have at level 28.  You can drain most mobs in 4 casts.  Once they have no mana, you have an excellent chance at victory.  When your mana is low and the mob is drained, you can put up Gerard's for that uber 11% haste.</P> <P>In general, keep your armor, weapons and spells as upgraded as possible.  At level 28, it is time to start looking for new armor (sad, but true).  With the latest patch, you can examine spells that are on the vendor to see how much of an upgrade they give you.</P> <P>I can tell you that I have enjoyed my Troubadour from level 28-32.  When I parse my damage on each fight, I am usually the highest or second highest in a group.</P> <P>You might want to try that Varsoon Apprentice again starting out Reproaching Discante and Insatiable Ardor as your first 2 spells.  Then you should cast Swindle Essense every time that the icon is lit until the mob runs out of mana.  I never use Arcane Chorus because I believe that if I drain the bigger mobs of their mana, my group resists are unnecessary.</P> <P>This thread was intended to raise the spirits of a frustrated fellow bard.  I hope this helps.</P> <P><A href="mailto:Arnaut@Mistmoore" target=_blank>Arnaut@Mistmoore</A></P> <P><A href="mailto:Tynker@Mistmoore" target=_blank>Tynker@Mistmoore</A></P> <P> </P>

[Longspo]

<DIV> <DIV>Thanks for the tips Valdas,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Forgot to list it, but I was using Reproaching for my 5 conc slot. (pre-patch of course since now it seems i cant cast it at all)</DIV> <DIV>Insatiable Ardor is great... for thirty seconds... if only i could kill him in that time as of now it just prolongs my fleeing...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'll definitely try it without Elises, are you saying it drains power WHILE it's running or just as a proc when it ends?  If it just procs a power loss I'll keep for purposes of my firerock testing since it runs 15 minutes and my fights with them NEVER last that long...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm sure hoping swindle essence is doing something... it's so hard to see any mobs power bar much less a giant... I never know if it is even doing anything... I do know that I don't see any significant increase to my own power after casting...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not sure what Gerard's is... training?  I took Belious' Boatful(Boastful supposed to be) Bellow instead of Vhalen's at 20 though i may respec that soon...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Most of my spells are ad1 with a peppered app4 here and there...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Drat armor again already...  will it ever end... There are AQ's at 30 aren't there?  Who do i see for those?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks for the advice, I will try your suggestions and see how they work...</DIV></DIV>

[Jehannum]

<DIV>Elise's drains about (from what I recall seeing when I used it) 100 power every time it procs its interrupt.  Makes it sort of a poor trade for the agility bonus.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When <STRIKE>Manaslurp</STRIKE> Swindle Essence hits, it draws out a good chunk of power, usually between 30-40% (on a solo blue) and 10-15% on an orange ^^</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Gerard's is haste, think it's about 24-25ish level but I can't recall - it's rarely useful but in low-power situations it can be great.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I wouldn't worry about Vhalen's - at 30 you receive an option for an even better stat song.  Alternatively, you could get both and start really thumping giants at 30.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As to later AQ's, I recommend Runnyeye for Myhtara's BP - there's no class-related or single-source quest, but there're quests out there, for sure.  Zek offers some great items for its "collect-the-gravestones" quests too.</DIV>

[Toogel]

<DIV>Doesnt Merciless Melody have a 14% haste on it?  Im only 21, so I dont know what Gerards is yet, but if its only 11% haste why is everyone using it over Merciless Melody?</DIV>

[texwood]

<P>Gerard's is +17% at adept 1 . +6 Agi to group as well.</P> <P> </P> <P>@Longspoon</P> <P>Here's my setup when i killed those fierock giants 24++</P> <P>vhalens, raxxyls adept1 , songsters adept 1, brias or aria of excitement or reporaching discante</P> <P>(last spot doesn't make a noticeable difference imo ) + performers talent (no elises)</P> <P>i pull with dissentening cantata, then i use insiatable ardor, then HO, HO...i use cantata to finish when its up.</P> <P>Sometimes i root (lvl 10 trait) the target , backup and use eli's or singing shot.</P> <P>I use dual wield (shield may block , but dual wield has better chance to parry, very little difference imo though)</P> <P>lvl 29 now: migitation 1005, avoidance 59.2 %, agi 141 buffed</P> <P>Hope that helps</P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P> </P></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Longspo]

<DIV>I still have not been able to find any trace of Gerard's...  I dont have it, and eq2.ogaming doesnt list it... Is it a training?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well i had much better success against the the giants last night...  It's a pitifully slow fight fer sure... I  finished with 100% health and 0% power...  Didnt use Elise's... swindled essence everytime i could until he was out of power... then HO'ed and CA'ed him until i ran out of power then just swung until he died, Walt's Singing blading him every chance i got...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But after reading I am depressed again...  You use dual wield???  I hate using a shield I would much rather use my twin steel stiletto's...  guess I'll give it a try but I'm not confident...  </DIV>

[texwood]

<DIV>no other way than trying...</DIV> <DIV>with evac up you don't take a risk.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Gerard's resonant sonata is lvl 28.6</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://www.sunshadow.net/troubador" target=_blank>http://www.sunshadow.net/troubador</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I use 2 pristine forged carbonite sabres but</DIV> <DIV>any other pristine weapons will also do.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At lvl 28.6 i didn't need to do any special stuff against the fierock 24++</DIV> <DIV>No swindle essence , no flanking attacks , no rooting etc.</DIV> <DIV>just HO  - lore's - walt's   repeat</DIV> <DIV>takes a little time (2-3 min if i remember right)</DIV> <DIV>no option for leveling, just for fun and the chests</DIV>

[SGrim]

I've found that 2 good dual wield weapons are much better than any weapon and a shield.  The extra parry/riposte and the the fact that the mob dies that much faster outweighs the benefits of the shield. Pretty sure Gerard's is the one that has one name when in rune form and a different one once scribed although i can't remember the other name (Luda's maybe?). This might be why you're having trouble finding it. <div></div>