Troubador Compiled Issues list - Updated

[Nevari]

<p>This list is a re-post and update from Caali's original post. Kudos mate!As the <a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=36&message.id=1541">thread</a> is no longer maintained I repost it. Please add, criticise, correct and comment. Thank you :smileyhappy:</p><p><strong><font color="#99ff00"><em>Issue #1</em> - Stat Buff Line</font></strong>I think this is the most common complaint of all troubadours since the strength and agility changes.<u>Possible Solutions</u></p><ul><li>add directly to AC / HP/ Attack along with stats</li><li>add a melee damage modifier to the line</li><li>another possibility is to make these buffs buff ALL stats, including Intelligence and Wisdom. Spreading the Power increase to Mages and Priests would go far to making this line a big improvement</li></ul><p><strong><font color="#99ff00"><em>Issue #2</em> - Power Regen Line</font></strong>The power regen line is close to useless in combat and completely so out of combat where crafted drinks make it negligible.</p><ul><li>9 power / tick Adept 3 at 35</li><li>13 power / tick Adept 1 at 50</li></ul><u>Possible Solutions</u><ul><li>increase in combat power regen</li><li>lose the power regen but have the line take a % off the power cost of skills and abilities</li></ul><p><strong><font color="#99ff00"><em>Issue #3</em> - Limited Use to Casters</font></strong>As it stands, the only thing we offer to casters is power regen and even that isn't really all that great.<u>Possible Solutions</u></p><ul><li>add a spell damage modifier to the Aria line</li><li>modify the power regen line as described above</li><li>add a spell cast reduction to our haste line, see below</li></ul><p><strong><font color="#99ff00"><em>Issue #4</em> - Haste Song Line</font></strong>Haste only affects non-combat ability damage. As we all know, CAs and spells are unaffected by our haste so it is of limited benefit.</p><ul><li>Adept 3 Haste, Level 36 24% to non-combat ability damage. From the data I've seen on the brigand board and other parses, most non-CA damage hovers around 30%. This being the case we're actually seeing a 24% increase of 30%, or 7.2% total increase for two concentration slots. Remember this is melee only, so in a group of six say three are melee types (and assume that they do half the damage). We're actually seeing a 3.6% increase of group DPS.</li></ul><u>Possible Solutions</u><ul><li>have haste reduce the combat ability and/or spell timers by a scaling %</li><li>add a melee damage modifier to the line</li></ul><p><font color="#99ff00"><strong><em>Issue #5</em> - Health Regen Line</strong></font>Around 22 regen a tick when mobs hit for 50 times as much damage is well underwhelming.</p><ul><li>24 regen / tick Adept 1 at level 35</li><li>31 regen / ticks Adept 1 at level 50</li></ul><u>Possible Solutions</u><ul><li>increase the health regen per tick</li><li>combine it with our power regen line</li><li>make it situationally useful, let's say a heal over time for one minute with a long recast timer</li></ul><p><strong><font color="#99ff00"><em>Issue #6</em> - Number of Concentration Slots Used Per Song</font></strong>Several of our songs use two concentration slots but are really of limited use. These include</p><ul><li>Songster's Luck Line (2) - skill modifier that is of debatable use below Master 1 level</li><li>Haste Line (2)</li><li>Health Regen Line (2)</li><li>Alin's Soothing Seranade (1) - this skill is used to lower hate gradually over time.<ul><li>When your concentration bar is full, as mine always is, you need to click off a buff, cast this song and only then does it <em>start</em> to lower your aggro. Makes it next to useless to cast once you have aggro. Would be a much better tool if it was a short duration, say 30s, and had a recast timer of 3 minutes.</li></ul></li></ul><p><strong><font color="#99ff00"><em><strike>Issue #7</strike></em> - Not Able to Overwrite Songs</font></strong>As it stands if we want to refresh a song we need to either wait for it to run out or manually cancel it by clicking in the maintained spells bar.<u>Possible Solutions</u></p><ul><li>make our songs overwritable</li><li>allow us to use the buttons in the hot bar to activate and deactivate our songs</li></ul>Note: This was changed according the latest <a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=tup&message.id=31">Test Server Update Notes</a>.<p><strong><font color="#99ff00"><em>Issue #8</em> - Self Haste Line Broken</font></strong>Taffos' Brilliant Blade works, why not the rest of the line? Walt's Thirsting Thrust does not have a buff icon pop up and does not self haste even though it is supposed to according to the description.</p><p><strong><font color="#99ff00"><em>Issue #9</em> - Stealth and Sneak Attack Line are bugged</font></strong>People are finding that Troubadour stealth line often does not hold once someone in the group engages. Consequently we can't get off our stealth based attack. There is a lot of debate on how this happens, but most importantly it is not reliable whatsoever. Also, we cannot stealth mid combat which makes this skill even less useful. And lastly, the damage on this stealth based attack line is extremely variable. At level 36 I've seen Clara's hit anywhere from 130 to 310.<u>Possible Solutions</u></p><ul><li>make the stealth line resistant to mob debuffs, AoE damage, etc. so we can at least use this skill at the beginning of the fight</li><li>allow us to use the Troubadour stealth line in combat, much like the level 3 Sneak and drastically reduce the 3s timer</li><li>narrow the range of damage making it omre reliable</li></ul><p><font color="#99ff00"><strong><em>Issue #10</em> - Charm</strong></font>Besides begin buggy, e.g. breaks encounters randomly, this is of limited use. We do not by any means aspire to being enchanters but a fix here would be appreciated.<u>Possible Solutions</u></p><ul><li>have charm use a concentration slot and make it drain power, but make it a fixed duration</li><li>reduce re-use timer</li></ul><p><font color="#99ff00"><strong><em>Issue #11</em> - Spell scaling</strong></font>Many of the spells are not worth upgrading as the impact in terms of usefullness is either not given or the higher level versions only increase the power used to cast them.<u>Possible Solutions</u></p><ul><li>from Apprentice I to Master I give the abilities/spells a increase in the attributes aswell as power consumption to keep it in line</li></ul><p><font color="#99ff00"><strong><em>Issue #12</em> - Resistance buffs</strong></font>Resist Line does not mitigate spell damage in a substantial manner after improvements in DPS for casters.<u>Possible Solutions</u></p><ul><li>increase the amount of resistances buffed by a low but noticeable manner</li><li>give it a a chance to resist the spell casted on you/group</li></ul><p><font color="#99ff00"><strong><em>Issue #13</em> - Interupt enemies</strong></font>The spell Breathtaking Bellow takes 3 second casting time and interupts a enemy. This is hard to time as the mob usualy finished casting before we finished to cast the interupt.<u>Possible Solutions</u></p><ul><li>reduce casting timer</li><li>make it a short-time stiffle</li></ul><p>Here is a reference (in work) <font color="#c8c1b5"><a target="_blank" href="http://www.thedauntless.org/Troubadour/Spell%20Screenshots/">http://www.thedauntless.org/Troubadour/Spell%20Screenshots/</a></font> of our abilities and how they scale.</p>

[Asheb]

Thanks for renewing this thread. I re-discovered it through the list of issues lists thread on the Abilities board. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was going to going point-by-point, but instead I'll just summarize.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <OL> <LI>Intelligence and Wisdom should mean something, and we should have songs to buff them.</LI> <LI>Power and Health regen songs are not in scale with the rate those pools are depleted in combat, and the spell lines don't scale to the pool sizes at higher levels.</LI> <LI>Song management is improved in the latest patch, but many of the spells are not refreshed, they are cancelled and must be restarted. This leaves vulnerability gaps and invites aggro issues.</LI></OL> <P>The one thing I'll speak directly to is Charm, which I consider a featured spell of the class. It is simply too limited in use. The refresh timer is too long and the duration is too short. The description indicates a 10% chance to charm that will break if you ask the target to do anything, but the actual mechanics appear to be a 100% chance to charm a yellow- con non-^^+ mob for 20-30 seconds and you can ask it to do almost anything except attack a ^^+ mob.</P> <P>This spell would be more useful and be more in the spirit of the class if it's mechanics were more like I suspect it was intended when the spell description was originally written. Here's a proposal for a different but more useful charm:</P> <UL> <LI>Charm a single yellow con small group or weaker mob, with the spell failing based on the mobs resistance to mental attack.</LI> <LI>Duration of 2:30, refresh of 2:30 (refreshable, but not stackable) taking a concentration slot.</LI> <LI>Charmed target only accepts fluff pet commands (follow or stay)</LI> <LI>If you're in aggro range when the spell drops, it beats the crap out of you.</LI></UL> <P>Alternately (and more realistically) base the concentration slots on the level of the mob: grey=0, green=1, blue=2, white=3, yellow=4, group=+1.</P> <P>Thanks again for picking up the thread.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Cygnu]

<P>Not sure if this has been mentioned but I noticed a problem with our Haste lines yesterday.</P> <P>In the descriptions it states that Merciless Meloday (Adept I) increases attack speed by 16% and Gerards Resonant Sonata increases attack speed by 18% and AGL by 6.</P> <P>Well when I cast Gerards Resonant Sonata I don't see any increase in AGL.</P> <P>I have to agree with the Power regen and Health regen song problems. These were one of the reasons I went Troubadour, but the effects are totally useless. And the fact that the health regen takes 2 conc spots means I never use it.  Plus, the fact that the effects of food or and water are so great makess this line of spells even more useless. The spells should at least be as good as player made food and at the moment they are no where near. And the health line should only be 1 conc slot.</P> <P>The sneak problem is a royal pain in the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. My only Master spell is Claras Midnight Cadence, but I only get to use it once in a fight, and thats if I start the fight which doesn't happen if the group has a tank <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Edit: Forgot to mention another gripe of mine:</P> <P><STRONG><FONT color=#99ff00><EM>Issue #14</EM> - Power Tap Line</FONT></STRONG></P> <P>I am not sure of the point of the power tap spells. They take an amout of power from the target and return a portion of it to your self, but they return less than what it costs to cast the spell. </P> <P>So why implement something like: drains 100 from the target, returning 50 to yourself. Spell costs 75 to cast</P> <P>May as well has implement it as: drains 100 from the target, Spell costs 25 to cast</P> <P>I believe that casting this line of spell should result in you ending up with slightly more power than when you started.</P> <P> </P> <DIV>When i played EQ1 and EQOA i really felt like I was bringing something to a group. Most groups were excited when a bard joined. I am not getting that feeling with EQ2 at the moment. Our mana songs aren't worth casting. Our health regen songs aren't worth casting. Our Haste songs aren't worth casting for the reasons mentioned above. I hardly ever see the Aria line of spells proc, so I dont use them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At the moment I go: 2 stat buffs + Arcane Symphony + Minstels Fortune (and I am not sure how much this effects things), sometimes swapping Arcane Symphony out for the group debuff line.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We troubadours need some loving......  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><p>Message Edited by CygnusX on <span class=date_text>03-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:47 AM</span>

[Longspo]

<P><STRONG><FONT color=#99ff00><EM>Issue #9</EM> - Stealth and Sneak Attack Line are bugged</FONT></STRONG><BR>People are finding that Troubadour stealth line often does not hold once someone in the group engages. Consequently we can't get off our stealth based attack. There is a lot of debate on how this happens, but most importantly it is not reliable whatsoever. Also, we cannot stealth mid combat which makes this skill even less useful. And lastly, the damage on this stealth based attack line is extremely variable. At level 36 I've seen Clara's hit anywhere from 130 to 310.<BR><BR><U>Possible Solutions</U><BR></P> <UL><BR> <LI>make the stealth line resistant to mob debuffs, AoE damage, etc. so we can at least use this skill at the beginning of the fight<BR> <LI>allow us to use the Troubadour stealth line in combat, much like the level 3 Sneak and drastically reduce the 3s timer<BR> <LI>narrow the range of damage making it omre reliable</LI></UL> <P> </P> <P>You list the sneak attack bug with the stealth bug in the issue item but then make no mention of it in the description...<BR>Sneak Attack/Caskin's Ringing Swipe formerly used a different reuse timer from the Taffo's line now they share...</P>

[Nevari]

Thanks for the heads up <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Will update the post with the input given asap tho due to easter can't say if it happens next days <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Asheb]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> CygnusX wrote:<BR> <P><STRONG><FONT color=#99ff00><EM>Issue #14</EM> - Power Tap Line</FONT></STRONG></P> <P>I am not sure of the point of the power tap spells. They take an amout of power from the target and return a portion of it to your self, but they return less than what it costs to cast the spell.</P> <P>So why implement something like: drains 100 from the target, returning 50 to yourself. Spell costs 75 to cast</P> <P>May as well has implement it as: drains 100 from the target, Spell costs 25 to cast</P> <P>I believe that casting this line of spell should result in you ending up with slightly more power than when you started.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I agree that when you're successful, there is no difference between the two implementations, but the fun begins when you fail a power tap. When you fail (using your numbers) you use 75 power to do nothing instead of 25 power to do nothing.</P> <P>However, I agree that if you're successful it would be more as advertised to give the troubador a net increase in power.</P> <P> </P> <P>Oh, and I have noticed the same problem with the description of Gerard's, no AGI increase.</P> <P><BR></P>

[Cheshirepezk]

<P><FONT color=#ff0099>I'd just like to add that the our sneak is one of the slowest in the game and I really think that it should be sped up quite a bit.. I don't think any troub can tell me that they haven't had people complaining about how much slower our sneak is in comparison to most every other scout class, let alone casting classes.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0099>It would make tons of us happy to see this change implemented, I'm sure most every troub would tend to agree</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0099>Thanx~</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0099>*Cyren*</FONT></P>

[SGrim]

<span><blockquote><hr>Cheshirepezkat wrote:<p><font color="#ff0099">I'd just like to add that the our sneak is one of the slowest in the game and I really think that it should be sped up quite a bit.. I don't think any troub can tell me that they haven't had people complaining about how much slower our sneak is in comparison to most every other scout class, let alone casting classes.</font></p> <p><font color="#ff0099">It would make tons of us happy to see this change implemented, I'm sure most every troub would tend to agree</font></p> <p><font color="#ff0099">Thanx~</font></p> <p><font color="#ff0099">*Cyren*</font></p> <hr></blockquote> I agree completely.  They recently changed the animation so you stand and "jog" slowly when sneaking which makes me feel like I'm crawling so I did a bit of research to see if they had, in fact, actually made sneak slower and what I did find is that Mala's Silent Hymn which says in the description "</span>Allows stealthed movement at an increased movement speed" is actually SLOWER than Walk Lightly according to the spell details when you examine it.  I don't remember the exact numbers and can't check right now, but I want to say Mala's is "reduces movement speed by 47%" and Walk Lightly is "reduces movement speed by 31%". <div></div>

[SGrim]

Minor but annoying issue: At level 40, we get no new songs or combat arts (except the stupid illusion which we have to buy).  They don't show up until 40.4 when we get 2 of them. It would make a lot more sense to have them at 40, 40.4 and 40.8 instead of 40.4, 40.4 and 40.8. It's really anticlimatic dinging 40 and not getting anything new. <div></div>

[thorvang]

that's something what happens to most (if not all) classes.i don't see extremely slowed stealth speed as an issue. bards are no scouts yet no casters, and for that we don't have the stealth of uberness.surely you could implement bard stealth as some kind of jedi mind trick, but we are no jedis, so we have to live with our slow stealth. be glad we even have the ability to move undetected ^^

[IKS_Nels]

<DIV>sorry double post :smileysad:</DIV><p>Message Edited by IKS_Nelson on <span class=date_text>03-30-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:39 PM</span>

[IKS_Nels]

<DIV>noticed a little issue today with one of our songs which you can add to the long list.</DIV> <DIV>Guviena's Disparate Chant (Adept I)</DIV> <DIV>Decreases enemy movement speed, reduces wisdom, and slightly drains power when snare dissipates</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>power                 61 </DIV> <DIV>cast time           0.5</DIV> <DIV>recovery time    0.5</DIV> <DIV>Duration           24.0</DIV> <DIV>recast time       30.0</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*Decreases wis of target by 14</DIV> <DIV>*Slows target by 35%</DIV> <DIV>*Decreases power of target by 21 - 26</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This spell never sticks to target, on maintained bar the spell imeaditaly dissapers as soon as it is cast meaning we get no benifit for its use</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by IKS_Nelson on <span class=date_text>03-30-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:30 PM</span>

[Frogsley]

<div></div><div></div>The only use I've ever found for Guviena's Disparate Chant is as another spell to drain a (tiny) amount of power from boss mobs. That's it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> It would be nice if, along with Purloin Essence Master I and the ranged-use Guviena's, these gave back more power than they took to cast! <div></div><p> <span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by Frogsley on <span class=date_text>03-31-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:21 AM</span>

[OminousProphe]

"Alin's Soothing Seranade (1) - this skill is used to lower hate gradually over time.<BR> <UL><BR> <LI>When your concentration bar is full, as mine always is, you need to click off a buff, cast this song and only then does it <EM>start</EM> to lower your aggro. Makes it next to useless to cast once you have aggro. Would be a much better tool if it was a short duration, say 30s, and had a recast timer of 3 minutes."<BR></LI></UL> <DIV>With the toggles this spell actually had a use, I could easily drop another non vital buff to drop my agro usually enough that in a round or two with an evade that the Mob heads back to the tank.  Now that I have to hunt through the buff box for the right buff (Multiple icons looking alike slowing me down), right click, cancel, and then hit the botton and cast it....its back to uselessness for me.  The only time its handy is when I had my debuff up and that group happens to be dead so I happen to have a conc all ready to go.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rather than taking away the toggly why not make the refresh timer on all 'buffs' .1?  In the time it takes you to click it twice you could be casting it again and that way the code shouldnt need major upgrades.</DIV>