Post-nerf song line strategies

[Jethro]

<DIV>I an effort to maintain my troubs viablity, I'm starting this thread for song line stategies that actually are useful.  Obviously running three or four agi/str songs is no longer the way to go.  I've experimented with several combinations but in the end am still dissatisfied.  For the record, I'm 31 so do not have alot of the higher level songs yet.  Obviously the Songster's Luck line is now more important.  Aria's mental proc is OK but only lands about once per thousand swings it seems.  Then there is the power regen, weak but better than nothing I guess.  I don't even bother with Elise's Ditty anymore.  Thats about all I've come up with, so please post suggestions here.  I'm trying to be positive here.</DIV>

[Araknar]

<DIV>At lvl 36 i tried every combination i could think of and was still either losing or down to 20% life on blue cons. to me looks like we re now worthless as soloers and a charity case to groups.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If on the other hand you do find something that works I'd like the hear it, haven't played my troub since the patch much coz its just depressing seeing priest/fighter/mage classes soloing stuff i now have to consider as no go mobs coz ill die in under 10 secs. put a lot of work into my troub at lvl 36 with lots of good gear, would love to find a way for that not have been an entire waste of time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Araknar</DIV> <DIV>36 extroub</DIV>

[duc7]

<DIV>Lvl 30 Troubador and have tried the same things as you Jethro65, i have yet to come across anything else in my arsenal that i can switch to counter the patch they put in.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do find something odd here,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Last night was killing solo skelly's near RoV for the PGT quest ( kill 100 skells to sharpen the axe ), greens lvl 26 were hitting me pretty hard taking about 40% of HP. And it seems like i couldnt dodge/parry hardly anything anymore. This is both with all buffs up or none.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On top of this now my HO's connect about 50% of the time even on solo grey cons Lvl 24/25</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yet at the same time i can fight ^^ green group mobs ( with all buffs up ) and hardly take a hit. If it wasnt for the fact that it takes me /sarcasm... a day and a half to kill them, these might be viable =P</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fought ^^ green mighty griffons, drowned troopers, and some centaurs ( for some reason amazon archers pummeled me ) spearmaidens and mystics weren't a problem.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sorry to get off the subject a little but this patch has really put a damper on playing this class, </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Take away our buffs and we're left with :</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff3300>Mana/HP</FONT> regen song ( which dont quote me on ) but thought i read that at Lvl 50 Adept 1 these do about 16/17/tick regen. Which to sum that up,at lvl 30 with about 1100-1200 mana  ( forget amount of HP's i have ) these are useless.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes, i dont expect to have mana regen like casters give but these arent even viable to use.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff3300>Debuffs </FONT> i have used these on both the single and group mob fights, did not see any difference in the group mob fight cause i hardly got hit =P. Also did not see any effect whatsoever in solo mob encounters as the green mobs still pounded me. Probly need some more time with these to see the exact effect.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff3300>Combat Arts, </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>( which was never our strong point as we're a utility class ) but alot the spells we have, have 3 sec cast timers on them. Which means no melee combat is beig done while casting these spells.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Even tho i still play my Troub ( doing alot of the heritage quests with RL brothers ) i can't see why anyone would want to continue playing theirs as it is right now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sorry i couldnt post any helpful info Jethro65, had to get that out</DIV>

[Jeffin]

<DIV>What I do now, after being "balanced:"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I still do my AGI buffs (I mean, they MUST be worth something...shouldn't they?  Maybe?...well, they at least let the group know I am trying!)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I  do my Speed Song--that way we can do a wee bit of extra damage in case one of our Melees wants to go get a beer during combat (/shrug...hell, it's something!)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I perform my abilities as a "poor-man's DPS"  (of course, in a Market that is already DPS heavy!)...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I tell lots of jokes and say funny things!  (RP as a Troubador:  I hope I don't get Nerfed for that!)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Count cadence and initiate our HO's (Err, I mean Heroic Opportunities--sort of a hobby of mine--the Opportunities, not the HO's!)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Live off of the skills of my buddies--I got good buddies, and they don't really care if I bring minimal skills and effects tot he table...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Play my Cleric......</DIV>

[AzureDa]

<DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It seems to me that 1h+shield is now more useful for soloing... the shield seemed to help a fair bit at reducing damage i was taking.  When I was never getting hit... didn't matter much.  (very limited sample set, so your mileage may vary.)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[duc7]

<DIV>Was actually going to try this out tonight, the 1H + shield, in hopes of finding a different way to play the character.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyone care to comment on what would be a good shield for a lvl 30? never looked at them before so i dont know what may be good.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hmm, methinks they knew something all along, why else would our class weapon be 1H? :smileytongue:</DIV>

[Jethro]

<DIV>LOL that occured to me too Duc.  I was on Zek last night killing orcs and just experimenting with stuff and I was thinking man I need a shield or something hehe.  Then a yellow con solo snake jumped me and sent me to the dirt heheh.</DIV>

[Grimme]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> duc748 wrote:<BR> <DIV>...greens lvl 26 were hitting me pretty hard taking about 40% of HP. And it seems like i couldnt dodge/parry hardly anything anymore...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yet at the same time i can fight ^^ green group mobs ( with all buffs up ) and hardly take a hit.</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>This actually might make sense considering the changes they made, and is something that should be posted on a board that the devs are more likely to read.</P> <P>I don't know exactly how they altered the code so I cant really say, but it may be that the changes they made have created the kind of situation where better stats relatve to an encounter are actually a bad thing. I think if this info gets posted in the right place, and it turns out to be easily reproducible, it will get fixed.</P>

[Araknar]

<DIV>unfortunatly i dont think there is a right place, u seen how random and rare devs post in a forum thats allows its customers to post in too?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've seen it once. all other dev posts have been monitered so u cannot reply.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>araknar</DIV>

[ghera]

I haven't seen a good enough reason to change what buffs I use. If you have all 4 stat buffs still it still adds over 1100hp, a bunch of power for scouts and fighters and a bunch of atk. I'll take all of that over some minor haste or hp regen. Debuffs probably don't do much anymroe, not that they ever did much to begin with, so you still have room for 1 more song, I usually just put up power regen.I hardly ever solo and haven't tried since the patch, but it seems to me that if mobs are actually making you lose hp now you'd be alot better off having 25-30% more hp than you would regen-ing a fraction of that amount per fight. Haste never seemed to help me kill anything any faster (thus taking less overall dmg each fight), but then again I never really measured it so maybe a parse or 3 is in order. Of the 3 or 4 available choices having increased stats still seemes provide the most benefit to me.

[Zelf Silverwolf]

<DIV>I totally agree here.  Keeping all 4 stats songs is still a better way to go.  Getting around an extra 1k hp per character is still better.</DIV>

[Nevari]

My strategy is being tradeskilling all time now :smileytongue:Ok seriously, as posted here<blockquote><hr>gherak1 wrote:I haven't seen a good enough reason to change what buffs I use. If you have all 4 stat buffs still it still adds over 1100hp, a bunch of power for scouts and fighters and a bunch of atk. I'll take all of that over some minor haste or hp regen. Debuffs probably don't do much anymroe, not that they ever did much to begin with, so you still have room for 1 more song, I usually just put up power regen.I hardly ever solo and haven't tried since the patch, but it seems to me that if mobs are actually making you lose hp now you'd be alot better off having 25-30% more hp than you would regen-ing a fraction of that amount per fight. Haste never seemed to help me kill anything any faster (thus taking less overall dmg each fight), but then again I never really measured it so maybe a parse or 3 is in order. Of the 3 or 4 available choices having increased stats still seemes provide the most benefit to me.<hr></blockquote>...I do the same IF I go out hunting and that is pretty much not happening at the moment. Still the buffs will give a benefit which is NOW even MORE needed than before. Somehow funny :smileyhappy:

[aeio]

<blockquote><hr>Araknar wrote:<DIV>At lvl 36 i tried every combination i could think of and was still either losing or down to 20% life on blue cons. to me looks like we re now worthless as soloers and a charity case to groups.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>If on the other hand you do find something that works I'd like the hear it, haven't played my troub since the patch much coz its just depressing seeing priest/fighter/mage classes soloing stuff i now have to consider as no go mobs coz ill die in under 10 secs. put a lot of work into my troub at lvl 36 with lots of good gear, would love to find a way for that not have been an entire waste of time.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Araknar</DIV><DIV>36 extroub</DIV><hr></blockquote>If you are losing down to 20% health on blue solo mobs at level 36, you are doing something horribly wrong.I can still solo yellow and oranges only losing 20%-25% health after the patch.Tell me what abilities you use in combat from all your buffs, to what you do when you pull to how you fight combat. Might not be bad to see your equipment and song levels either. As if you are having so much trouble, it has nothing to do with the changes to agility, has to do with you not being anywhere close to maximizing the potential of your character right now.By the way, I still double stack those buffs at the very least. People act like those buffs only buff agility. A few notes here... They buff strength and stamina by a huge level. (Check your hit points before you have any buffs and after you add them all.) Secondly, agility is your power pool stat, so even if its effect is less on combat, it gives you more power.I am a little bit disheartened by troubadors complaining about this, as it had very little impact on us, except the overall changes made it more difficult to solo group mobs. Beyond that the change is minimal, and actually had a bigger impact on several other classes than on troubadors.As for skills, I will often use my 3 buff skills, will use songsters luck (still because my upgrade is still not as powerful), sometimes will mix the proc, but rarely. Will often use my dot, often use my debuff, very rarely use haste, almost never use power regen, and will use arcane symphony against tough solo mobs.Edit: By the way I checked, here are my stamina, and strength increases from these buffs:Before Buffs:Strength 66 (Attack 536)Stamina 64 (Hit Points 1989)Power: 1319After Buffs:Strength 164 (Attack 585)Stamina 162 (Hit Points 2571)Power: 1552My guess is these songs are going to still be nerfed from stacking, which is unfortunate since we do have to use up concentration to stack them.But as you can see, I can boost 6 peoples hit points by almost 600 points, and their attack by 50 some points. Not to mention my own power went up by 230 plus points. These buffs would increase power for scouts and fighters in your group signifcantly.These buffs did and do a lot more than just boosting agility.<p>Message Edited by aeiouy on <span class=date_text>02-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:47 AM</span><p>Message Edited by aeiouy on <span class=date_text>02-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:52 AM</span>

[Peyed]

<blockquote><hr>GrimmeHF wrote:<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>duc748 wrote:<BR><DIV>...greens lvl 26 were hitting me pretty hard taking about 40% of HP. And it seems like i couldnt dodge/parry hardly anything anymore...</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Yet at the same time i can fight ^^ green group mobs ( with all buffs up ) and hardly take a hit.</DIV><DIV><HR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This actually might make sense considering the changes they made, and is something that should be posted on a board that the devs are more likely to read.</P><P>I don't know exactly how they altered the code so I cant really say, but it may be that the changes they made have created the kind of situation where better stats relatve to an encounter are actually a bad thing. I think if this info gets posted in the right place, and it turns out to be easily reproducible, it will get fixed.</P><hr></blockquote>I have not yet experienced this phenomenon. Since the patch, I have tested fighting green, blue, white, and yellow solo con mobs and have had good success with all of them (with 25 - 85% hp remaining after combat). However, I got owned by a green ^^ group mob (forest spider) in four consecutive hits. What you are experiencing isn't universal, at least not for me at L25.

[Shiloh]

<DIV>aeiouy, I'd sure like your help, 'cause I'm getting slammed by green ^ owlbears and often have to run away from blue cons.  I'm a level 28 Troubador, just started fighting with a shield.  Here are my unbuffed stats:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Health: 1285   Power: 857   Attack: 411  AC: 2950       Str: 42   Agi: 78   Sta:45   Int: 48   Wis:42</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All spells are Adept 1 unless otherwise stated.  For my concentration slots I use Songster's Luck, Rousing Tune, Raxxyl's Energizing Harmony, and either Aria of Excitement or Bria's Thrilling Ballad (depending on if I'm in a group or facing enough critters that I think I'll need the Power regen.)  If I'm in a group using lots of HOs, I sometimes leave 5th concentration slot open in case a I need to cast something for HO.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Since, whether fighting Dual-Wield or shield and 1-handed I don't do much damage, I tend to spam my CAs as much as possible.  I usually start stealthed and use Luckblade, then hit Insatiable Ardor (App 4) for parrying.  Then I'll gown the line of Eli's Thunderous Hymn, Piercing Shriek, HO with Quick Strike (App 3), Sparkling Blade, Walt's Singing Blade, then Cheap Shot (App 3) followed by Taffo's Brilliant Blade.  Then repeat.  If I'm fighting solo against multiples, I'll throw in Denon's Prolonged Lamentation as often as possible.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I stopped using Elise's Ditty lately, cause it seemed to be costing me too much power.  I also haven't used Swindle Essence much solo because I was needing the power for offense.  I stopped using Fulgent Blade because it was on the same timer as Sparkling Blade.  I figured two hits were better than one, but too often, Fulgent was hitting for less than half Sparkiling.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway, since the patch, I've died or run away from MANY battles against greens and blues.  Any tips you could give would be most appreciated.  Thanks!</DIV>

[Ep]

<DIV>you need to start using 1h+shield if you want to solo. 1hander i have no recommendation on, as i get whatever con's yellow from group drops(1handers drop in nekcastle,rv no one wants em and tanks have like 6 of each) shield, i guess the best shield would be a round shield. still pretty crappy ac, about 236 or so, if you want a bit better you can have a woodworker make a rare round shield and that'll prolly be the best you get. Why? b/c the only shields that drop are kite shields(crusaders/war only) and bucklers(all classes, except mage) then ones where we get max ac on is round shields, and i haven't seen any drop, so your best bet is to get one from a woodworker, they get them at 21/31/41 and requires planed wood/cord/2studs of the appropriate tier.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i'm 37 and i fight lvl 41/42 wolfs in EF, i'm usually at 60/60 after i'm done, sure it's more work after patch, but solo is doable. i am a dirge, but i doubt our spell lineup is that far different. besides the occasional buff/debuff |||regen vs. slow ||| mana drain vs. life tap we're about equal, true dirge is a bit more fit to solo, but it shouldn't be the case that you can't solo blues.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Epyx on <span class=date_text>02-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:37 AM</span>

[AzureDa]

<DIV><EM>regen vs. slow ||| mana drain vs. life tap </EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV>The regen is really really worthless; the power drains are no good for soloing either.  There -are- solo blues that give me real trouble; soloing as a troubador is now pretty selective.  We are probably as poor at soloing as any class out there... significantly worse than most.  Generally, an even con is a good fight for me.  Most blues don't give me trouble... and an orange comes right down to the wire at the end.  but again... if buffs drop during a fight with a blue, or I have a couple bad rounds, or I can't get ringing blows... I have to run.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ghoulbane is definately the one-hander to aim for.  Decent round shields drop in Nek Castle as well; the Shiny Brass Shield looks very solid for a scout.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>