Troubadors from all servers, Unite & let your voice be heard!

[Vermillio]

My fellow performers, musicians, minstrels, maestros, muses, heralds, troubadors, virtusuos, impresarios;If the patch of Feb 01, 2005 has affected your playstyle, character, grouping ability and other in-game experience in a bad way(s), please, let us all post here under this ONE topic to consalidate all thoughts about this nerf to troubador class. Please speak the truth from your playing experience, not assuming and try to stay calm when posting. We shall not flame, but we shall reason with the Devs about the big negative impact on troubadors after the patch. (I hope they ses this)To be precise, they did not physically change any of our songs line up. Instead, they reduced the amount of beneficial effects of our buff songs to minimal by reducing the AGI bonus effect on all classes while tuning up the Mobs attributes, starting from level 30 and above. That has a big negative impact on our grouping abilities and our contribution to group since we are trademarked on stats buffing. (no, mana is a joke, 9 mana per tick, go do the math)I will also post my own thoughts about it when I have time later this afternoon.If you think this class is being seriously overlooked, please, let us all unite and voice out for ourselves. I've seen enough posts from other classes asking for a nerfbat on us while they know absolutely nothing about troubadors. (and yea, the nerfbat has hit a homerun)-Vermillion, 41 Troubador of Antonia Bayle<p>Message Edited by Vermillionn on <span class=date_text>02-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:42 AM</span>

[Nevari]

I repost my response from another thread as it sums up my thoughts.Greetings,it helps a bit to see that I'm not alone with my gut feeling about the patch today. Playing a troubador on LDL as I did in beta. Hell I loved it! Each single day...Now we are here today and well sorry but this nerf is plain bad. No need to use any words which would be nerfed . I think bad describes it just perfectly.At any chance please don't sing the same song as others did allready which did gave birth to this nerf in the end. Don't go on about other classes being lower level can solo the mobs we can't then they con green to us. It would be lame in my book and we would do the same [FaarNerfed!] as others done before.Anyhow I wonder what good comes from the nerf now? I ask if people are more happy now?Hell you nerfed a class to oblivion and that saying could still be judged as understatement.You got a class bringing a lots of skills on the table. Skills which YOU ALL benefited from big time. You don't have that benefit anymore but you got what you wanted (Yes going on about the whining in class "inbalance" *cough*).And no bringing up the arguments we got pathfinding, disarm trap, tracking or coin CA... uhm every scout has that. Power leeching or power regeneration? Healing song, DoT, debuff? This topic was covered allready before well enough and the funny things being pointed out about it.Ok what's left now? Or even better let's have a look at how it does affect other classes. I don't dare looking into the brawler, monk or bruiser forums.The whole scout archetype is pretty much screwed as AGI is the prime attribute we relay on. Oh yes... troubador has INT as secondary. Yes of course I can replace my gear and choose my traits again adopting to the nerf now :smileytongue:I did play for a long time today. We were questing and took on the mobs needed. All I can is that I'm gutted and dissapointed. Tweaking and balancing is one thing but this is way over the top.Dear devs please. THINK! This is no good. Please change it. Thank you.

[SingleTra]

<DIV> <DIV>(I copied and pasted the following to this thread from another thread in order to hopefully get a single thread for our issue. So if you read it before, read it again :smileymad: )</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I dont think I will ever be able to give SOE the benefit of the doubt, in reguards to patches, ever again.    </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yesterdays patch was made due to the mob mentality of ignorant players. Did those players who screamed nerf ever actually sit down and play a troubadour?  You may want to actually take a look at how a class is played before you pummel them with that nerf stick.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Where my question sits now, is why should I play a troub?  Why should I even be a scout?  What do I offer the group? Let me give the ignorant a run down of what I now have to offer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Haste:  Fine for pure melee, does not affect speed at which combat arts refresh or use.</DIV> <DIV>Mana:  The amount is lower than that of a T5 drink.  Plus I did the mana battery act for 5 years in EQ1, I think I will pass on it this time around.</DIV> <DIV>AC Debuff: whoopty freakin doo.  Let me call the press on that one. Useless now that the mobs use more stats than the ac!  Oh how you have turned the tables!</DIV> <DIV>Mez:  Level 50 the Troub aquires this skill and from I hear, it is somewhat ok.</DIV> <DIV>HP Regen: laughable regen.  </DIV> <DIV>Charm: works sometimes, wonder how I will manage when that charm breaks.....</DIV> <DIV>Chorus Lines:  Resistance towards spells and the like.  These do not allow you to resist more, it allows you to mitigate the damage "better".  So that mobs nuke that once did 600 dmg, now it will do 575.  So on and so forth.</DIV> <DIV>DPS: yeah, hrm, I have been witness to guardians doing more damage than me with their CA's.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do agree with the fact that Scouts in general should not be able to out tank the tank classes. I also do agree that the level of  Getting clowned by a deer in Zek 10 levels lower than me, is just stupid.  I am not [Removed for Content] geared, not the best, but not [Removed for Content]. I should not get owned by solo mobs in Everfrost.  I should not have been impacted so much by a single patch.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Take it for what it is.  I doubt I will be playing much longer if this stays in tact.  Reliance on Guardian + Templar is just lame.  We all should be those classes in this case, then there would never be the question of class balancing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Next time do proper testing.  You have a test server you had this implimented on for under 24 hours.  Bet SOE got some really good information from that since you are trying to /movelog people from AB to test.  Yeah, the roleplay players really want to play on an even more broken server.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Before you start swinging around balancing sticks, fix the issues that are already known and have been sent as feedbacks.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I dont want to resort to soloing Glacier Bears in Everfrost for 4 more levels just with hopes a group will pick me up for mez.  I dont even like soloing, did enough of that in eq1.  </DIV> <DIV>~fina</DIV></DIV><p>Message Edited by SingleTrack on <span class=date_text>02-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:28 PM</span>

[Jethro]

<DIV>My attempt to make a case: I think this "nerf" was, by all accounts, supposed to adjust over-buffed agi stats at HIGH levels.  I don't consider low-30's to be high level.  I've never been able to solo reds four levels higher than me which was apparently what got people upset and crying (at high levels).  I couldn't pre-patch and I can't now for sure.  However, I now can't solo orange mobs two levels higher than me, or if I do it is dicey at best and if one thing goes wrong I'm staring at the ground (due primarily to agi-based evasion no longer working).  I can no longer rely on stun during solo combat to sneak in a flank attack which tremendously lowers my dps.  My chosen traits were all stat buffs, which have been effectively taken away so i basically wasted these trait choices.  And lastly, and most importantly, my contribution to groups is now mainly a weak mana regen.   My biggest utility now are the standard scout abilities, escape, stealth, etc.  Our class identity has been taken away from an effectiveness standpoint.  I should have just been a Brigand or Swashie at least I could dish out decent dps then.</DIV>

[shan]

i will not retype all my posts about this suffice it to say they horribly broke the troubador class and that coming from a 26 troub and a tank who groups with troubadorsi spent most of my launch hour today trying to put myself in the shoes of whoever made the call and the procedure they followed, i just cant figure it out ( and yes i know what am talking about since i work in the same industry) person must be either totaly oblivious to what is hapening or this is a bad dream and a horrible mistake. or person is totaly clueless.

[Davard]

Well, Since the patch today and not being able to find a group, not being able to really buff any stats that mattered, not being able to do an DPS at all. I lvled my warrior to guardian status. I loved playing my bard and it has always been my favorite class since eq1. Seems like it's pointless to even worry about leveling my troub anymore =(. AND GOSH DARN IT I WANT SELO'S TO =P

[rioi]

Yall at pathetic and just [Removed for Content] off that you went from one of the most useful classes in the game to one of the most useless....least me as a swashbuckler makes out somehow with you being gimped by gimping everybody else....I still can't solo grays anymore....nor take any kind of damage....lvl 50 with 188 AGI and 7000+ AC....moreso then a lvl 50 guardian in very good armor....kinda [Removed for Content] my dodge/parry skill is literally gone/sob/sobWell, I guess I have to lose something to gain something. I complained all the time about how yall were overpowered with your AGI songs making people unhittable.....well.....I was gimped in the process....but oh well..least yall get power regen LOL!

[Nevari]

Rioisk you jumping the gun. Stop it, you won't make any friends with it. For those wondering what I mean check <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=36&message.id=1118#M1118" target=_blank>here</a>.

[Jethro]

<DIV>That (Riosks) post was pathetic, immature and pretty much not inline with the other somewhat civil and mature posts on this board.  At least I didn't get my troub to 50 only to get nerfed to hades and back.  The fact that you showed your face on the troub board makes it all that much more pathetic.  Time to reroll and cry in my beer, and take some comfort in the fact that I haven't grinded all the way to 50.  How exactly were we "abusing" agi buffs? It was part of the game, now it's not.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Jethro65 on <span class=date_text>02-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:52 PM</span>

[Davard]

So what you can't solo at lvl 50 big deal? At least you have decent DPS. Quit cher whinin and trying to make it out like we got what was comin to us.

[Nevari]

<blockquote><hr>Davardar wrote:So what you can't solo at lvl 50 big deal? At least you have decent DPS. Quit cher whinin and trying to make it out like we got what was comin to us.<hr></blockquote>Why are so many people bashing the troub now? I don't mean players actually playing it to endgame or having a clue. Sorry as it doesn't sound you have one.

[Vermillio]

This is a post intended for troubadors and troubadors only, if you are not the class as mentioned in the topic of the post, please be kind and throw your rubbish elsewhere and stop your nonsense. Your unknownledgable and short insight posts and whines already caused a nerf on agility bonus to ALL players at the same time reducing not only a troubador's usefulness, but your own as well.Now be gone and go back to your den, as you've always been since all you have done was hiding in your room looking at your computer and grind your exp.-Vermillion, 41 troubador of Antonia Bayle

[Alis]

<DIV>Well I am a dirge so go have a go if you must, but sadly the official reply from Moorguard pretty much says to bad you was to Leet sigh.</DIV>

[Seth]

<DIV> <DIV>(sorry for corss posting)</DIV> <DIV>Troubadour since the last patch became the gimpest class</DIV> <DIV>Our  principal buff is base on agility and defence.  </DIV> <DIV>The haste is no more powerfull when lvl are gained.  It  stay at 16% (enchant can  hast for 40% at 40+..)  It has just moreover agility.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>  Troubadour had only the buff stat who was useful.  Now troubadour = </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Regen mana useless(16/tick adeptI with the lvl50 when enchant can regen 70./tick)</DIV> <DIV>- DPS, very bad  : healer can outdamage us.  </DIV> <DIV>- Hast. 16% for 2 concentration , when 80% of dps are done with skill.  no coment ....</DIV> <DIV>-Regen HP 35 HP/tick at  lvl50...  Lol</DIV> <DIV>-Drain power become useless with the boost in stat of lvl30+  mob (they have much more mana) </DIV> <DIV>-the resist song (elemental etc) are not very effective.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tank are taking same number of hit with or without our buff. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please Dev fix it. <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif" width=16 border=0></DIV></DIV>

[Drac]

You got my vote, but I doubt there will be a change anytime soon

[Drac]

<blockquote><hr>Vermillionn wrote:My fellow performers, musicians, minstrels, maestros, muses, heralds, troubadors, virtusuos, impresarios;If the patch of Feb 01, 2005 has affected your playstyle, character, grouping ability and other in-game experience in a bad way(s), please, let us all post here under this ONE topic to consalidate all thoughts about this nerf to troubador class. Please speak the truth from your playing experience, not assuming and try to stay calm when posting. We shall not flame, but we shall reason with the Devs about the big negative impact on troubadors after the patch. (I hope they ses this)To be precise, they did not physically change any of our songs line up. Instead, they reduced the amount of beneficial effects of our buff songs to minimal by reducing the AGI bonus effect on all classes while tuning up the Mobs attributes, starting from level 30 and above. That has a big negative impact on our grouping abilities and our contribution to group since we are trademarked on stats buffing. (no, mana is a joke, 9 mana per tick, go do the math)I will also post my own thoughts about it when I have time later this afternoon.If you think this class is being seriously overlooked, please, let us all unite and voice out for ourselves. I've seen enough posts from other classes asking for a nerfbat on us while they know absolutely nothing about troubadors. (and yea, the nerfbat has hit a homerun)-Vermillion, 41 Troubador of Antonia Bayle<p>Message Edited by Vermillionn on <span class=date_text>02-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:42 AM</span><hr></blockquote>You got my vote, but I doubt there will be a change anytime soon

[Jeffin]

<DIV>Hello all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>First things first:  I would like to THANK SOE for a wonderful game.  I am no 'power-gamer,' but I have played several MMORPG's.  I put a lot of time in, but I'm here for the journey, not neccessarily the destination...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have to say that up until now, my Troubador has been by far one of the most enjoyable characters I have ever played in a game like this.  I have NEVER "solo'd Reds," as I get my butt kicked!  Ditto for ANY "group" encounters other than Grays, and then only to finish one of the wonderful quests I soooo love about this game!  (BIG Time kudos to the Devs and Designers on the Quests!)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With that said, and after the past two nights (since the Nerf), I have to ask:  What purpose is my Troubador?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do not parse the DPS, and all that stuff, and generally, I prefer to Group over solo-play.  But still, there are times, I like to go explore, and get a bit of Experience while doing so (and, of course, not dieing!)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But even in groups, I feel, well, sorta useless.  (at best a "poor-man's DPS...")</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One of the things I love(d) about the class was all the skills, songs and spells I had to choose between!  Made me feel as though I had a lot of utility and could fill lots of 'niche' rolls.  Now, it seems, I still have lots of buttons to mash, but to what purpose?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I mean, we already have, what, 20% to 40% of our Songs/Skills that either do not work as stated, or have VERY questionable effects on gameplay.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, I do believe that our AGI buffs were a bit overpowering.  I am only 28th level, but I could get in a group, and my Tank (Usually a Zerker) would hardly ever get hit.  BUT, that was pretty much the main (and only class-specific) advantage we brought to the group.  Likewise, it is what kept us alive when solo.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I really don't want to be "Uber," but I do think it would be kind of nice if the Devs threw us a bone.  Make our Power Regen a legitimate song (I mean, really, what are we?  The equivalent of a soda-pop, with 1/10th the duration?)  Tweak our Speed song up a bit.  Make the "Luck" line more Buff instead of a 1-concentration 'Fluff.'  Maybe add, or replace some of our useless songs with something that, well, does something.  Hell, just make them work AS LISTED in the description...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Currently, this Nerf-patch has taken a rare, fun and unique class and turned it into a rare, unique, and largely useless 'fluff' class.  HELL, I could even possibly go for that, but, while Palladins get HORSES (Actaully, I like that idea), Troubadors get to [Removed for Content] their friends off by making them dance the most horrific 'dance' in any MMORPG, hands down.  (Seems the Devs must kinda like the Crusader classes--they get 'fluff' spells that give real, advantageous effects, while Troubadors get lots of 'songs' that really have no effect...and then get nerfed.../shrug) </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fortunately, I have some alts that I really like as well (hehe, one of them a Crusader!).  If the Devs show over the next couple of weeks that they are "satisfied" with their new "balance," then I will just shelf my Troubador (hard as it may be...) and play another Archetype.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bascially, I think the BIG problem here may be that Devs have an "Archetype System" that is too big for them to really "balance."  Thus, in the end, I am afraid, they will be 'picking and choosing' the Classes and SubClasses that they will make "more equal" than others.   In which case, we will one day soon have entire populations filled with about half of the actual Class/Subclasses available in the game...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Again, that is fine, but I would like for Moorguard, or one of the Devs to make a statement on these issues.  Just a short post like "we know there are problems with certain classes due to our Patch, and we are working on ways to compensate" or "We see no problem with the current balance, Troubadors, Monks, etc. are just fine in our book, and we forsee no immediate changes in order to make them more viable..."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>LOL--I know, I know!  A "Customer Service Statement from SOE telling us what is going on!?!  (Talk about living in a "fantasy world...")  Unfortunately, THAT is one thing SOE is NOT good at...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For the record, guys, we are not the only ones having problems with this.  Monks may have gotten screwed more than us, and the other Scout Classes did not fare well either.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That's my 2 cents.  I will see you folks somewhere in the game.  If not as a Troubador, then as some other class....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Have fun, whatever path you choose!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[shan]

well said Jeffinok here is HOW class balancing should take place..the producer ( or the associate producer) should compile a list of in house QA team or employees who play EQ2 outside office hours, devide the list to who plays what class, then give them the equivalent of chek list and let them go play ( during office hours). let them play their chosen class in a "real environemnet" without all the in house buffs cheats and what have you, let them group with real people. and do not restrict 1 employee per class have for example 4 or 5 play the troubador class ( among the other archtypes)the chek list should look something like this.,,a) are troubadors group friendly ( as in have troubles finding a group)b) are your songs working as intended, and list those not working as intended.c) do you notice a difference with buffs on rather then without buffs on something along those linesTHENthe producer or AP should take the results, compare them to their "vision" with the design team, THEN cross reference them with the person in charge of monitering the specific archtype board ( if they dont have a systme like this set up were in a world of hurt fellas cause no way in hell 1 person NOT heavily involved with the design aspect of so called archtype can relay the proper comunity feedback, it takes more then someone with copy/paste abilities)THENchanges can be made if any and properly tested and sory 3 day testing is not enoughof course this is a rough draft giving more time i can actually prepare a proper test plan for SOE. and no need ot hire more people, the team is large, and am sure they can spare a few people for this sort of work.

[Jethro]

<DIV>Mark my words, there will be a mass exodus EQII from this agi nerf and/or everyone rolling templars/guardians/zerkers because SOE has alienated every other class.   </DIV><p>Message Edited by Jethro65 on <span class=date_text>02-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:14 AM</span>

[LadyShylah]

From the looks of it, there are very few Troubadors. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I love being a Troubador (currently level 26) and I would hope that I am beneficial to the group. Since the patch, I have played very little, however, I would love it if they could fix our spells from 'sticking' once they are completed. Example is with Singing Blade (or was it sparkling blade?) on any account, once you cast it, it stays cashed and takes up concentration bubbles. There are times when I see 2 - 3 of that spells icon to the left and then I have to actually right click it and cancel it out during battle just so I have more concentration to do a weakening spell. I don't know if this is the right spot for it, but I would like to be able to use instruments. Are there any usable instruments in the game? I don't even know if they exist. Also, a variation in how the spells are done would be wonderful. The only thing we have is the drum beat, the guitar beat, and then all the rest are shiny singing things. I like the use of notes bouncing around, but a few more graphic variations with Troubador/bard spells would be appreciated. hehe <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Cabel]

*Copied and pasted message below*Studies show that each time a company gets one actual written and mailed letter, it represents 1000 people who feel the same way. Below is the actual mailing address of Sony Online Entertainment. They may actually ignore forum postings since it's so easy to hop on the internet and complain. Writing an actual letter and mailing it, puts much more effort into the complaint and is recognized much more effectively. SOE Mailing address: Sony Online Entertainment, Inc.8928 Terman CourtSan Diego, CA 92121(85<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> 577-3100 I encourage everybody to write a well thought out and tactful letter to Sony Online Entertainment over the subject of the big nerf that came out on February 1st.

[Ru]

As a troubador i have to say i think things are just bugged right now. As of today, a blue ice fright drug me down to 18% health before i could kill it. A yellow glacier bear never got me below 85%. One of the big problems is also powers landing. I can land more powers on yellow group mobs (when i am in a group) than i can on grey thru white solo mobs. I can also land more powers and get hurt less without my buffs up at the moment against solo mobs. This has to be bug related not nerf related.I haven't read through the boards, so i did not see the post about someone doing deep reds but i know of paladins (and all other classes) that were able to kill turtles in EL when they conned red. That is ungrouped and maybe part of the problem. That anyone could do it meant something had to change. I think what we are seeing now is to many code edits that created unintended bugs.I could be wrong on this if so, my troub is a grey killing machine who adds no more to a group than adding a second guardian would.Malakonlvl 46 Troubador on Highkeep

[Pubin]

<DIV>*bump* Fix us please. I already posted in my "Oh come on..." post. I've been sending multiple feedbacks, bugs and petitions about the matter daily. Since i have nothing better to do now.</DIV>

[bellring]

<DIV>you got my vote .good class being disameted for the sake of game balence.</DIV>

[Araknar]

<DIV>i played my troub for the 1st time today since i put it down after patch and had something real nasty happen while grouped with 2 guildies, heres the short story</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Group is lvl33 berserker, lvl 33 templer and me lvl 36 troubador.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>we were fighting a mini named, just blue ^^ in zek, forget his exact name, raidleader something just east of gates. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Zerker "apparently after buffs has 600ac less than me" with my buffs and cleric buffs i had 4552ac</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Zerker pulls and is tanking, im attempting to hurt it. not going too badly zerker is getting hit for between 90-180dmg a pop but dps is not good and tanking a while, zerker who 2 boxes missed a heal and died. mob turned on me and heres what shocked me, 1st hit 749dmg, 2nd hit 650dmg, 3rd hit 580dmg, 4th hit 720dmg at this point im at a slither of health and evac which i cast soon as zerker died cast so we survived.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just thought id point out the ridiculous dmg difference on us now regardless of ac, i figured id get hit harder but not 5x harder every single blow.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Araknar</DIV> <DIV>lvl 36 troub kithicor server</DIV>

[Malasaphn]

<DIV> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>This is unbelievable, Troubadors were not exactly at the top of the food chain when it came to soloing and now they're at the very bottom.  I can understand *correcting* the issue where Troubs were somewhat untouchable with fully buffed Agility, but to neuter the entire class to fix this issue?  What a slapdash approach to resolving this.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Agility was the focus of the Troubador class.<SPAN>  </SPAN>My money was spent (in great amounts) to enhance those spells that increase Agility, and my specialized training was always for Agility.</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>You’ve taken an already under appreciated, misunderstood and sparse class, and castrated it to cater to the whines of much more proliferate classes.</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Can’t wait until you resolve this issue, since if you don’t, the Troubador class will all but disappear.</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Until then, I look forward to being a totally useless and low damage dealing DPS!</FONT></SPAN></P></DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text><FONT size=2>Brightbirch Battlebard<BR>42 Troubador of Oggok<BR>Leader of Divinity</FONT></SPAN></P>

[Nevari]

<blockquote><hr>Araknar wrote:<DIV>i played my troub for the 1st time today since i put it down after patch and had something real nasty happen while grouped with 2 guildies, heres the short story</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Group is lvl33 berserker, lvl 33 templer and me lvl 36 troubador.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>we were fighting a mini named, just blue ^^ in zek, forget his exact name, raidleader something just east of gates. </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Zerker "apparently after buffs has 600ac less than me" with my buffs and cleric buffs i had 4552ac</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Zerker pulls and is tanking, im attempting to hurt it. not going too badly zerker is getting hit for between 90-180dmg a pop but dps is not good and tanking a while, zerker who 2 boxes missed a heal and died. mob turned on me and heres what shocked me, 1st hit 749dmg, 2nd hit 650dmg, 3rd hit 580dmg, 4th hit 720dmg at this point im at a slither of health and evac which i cast soon as zerker died cast so we survived.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Just thought id point out the ridiculous dmg difference on us now regardless of ac, i figured id get hit harder but not 5x harder every single blow.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Araknar</DIV><DIV>lvl 36 troub kithicor server</DIV><hr></blockquote>Bit ridiculous but still as long we could dodge the damage output from mobs in line with the damage we take then they hit all fine. A sort of balance.Now? Nerfed AGI, beefed up mobs. *clap*So far the very endgame had stacking issues regarding buffs raising the avoidance tanking ability. As for now the approach taken was not to tweak but honestly screw the whole design of the combat system in a bad way for the AGI based classes.There was a inbalance before for a certain aspect of the game and a certain amount of players in a certain group setup. There IS NOW a majority upset and some classes nerfed to oblivion.Sounds like a simple breakdown, guess it is, still it's true :smileysad:

[Nokan]

<DIV>The problem is with having a system where Agility avoids damage and Armour mitigates damage is easy to balance mitigation % but avoidance is never balance correctly in any system I have ever seen, it is either set to high which was making classes with high agility seem god like at tanking or it gets set to what on paper seems a sencible level and the random number generator totaly kills players due to streaks of hits landing.  The higher level you go the more this is highlighted as the mobs hit harder and a streak of hits before even more deadly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for troubladors  I can only hope they are least 'rebalance' some of our other buffs to make up for this Agility change otherwise I suspect as others have said we will all be either re-rolling as Gaurdians, Clerics or pure DPS or moving on.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Astaryius whisperwind.</DIV>

[RobertQuicksilv]

Troubador is a fun class and was my first choice to play, my main is one and enjoy the comination of spell casting and melee. If you take away, or reduce, one aspect (AGI buff) then we are hardly experts in the melee area. Yes our DPS is higher than majority of melee fighters, but thats because our armor isn't great and we can not heal. Even our stuns are mediocre at best. Pathfinding hardly makes us run like the wind, Bria's Stirring Ballad is nowhere near as effective as some of the drinks, whiskey etc (read my sig ive tested most drinks), I have Adept I version and the power regen combined with dps is supposed to make up for our lack of healing.So what happens when you reduce our AGI, we get hit, a lot. Troubadors aren't exactly the most uber class ever, so when we get hit it hurts and there is nothing we can do about it. Ive played other classes so I *think* what our class is lacking: either give us the ability to stun/mez PROPERLY, give us a damaging alpha strike, heck Id be happy with something like ranged weapons being beefed up <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, or give us the ability to heal (personally don't want this as it's not what our class is and although there is a health regen song its hardly spectacular from all accounts). We need something because at the moment I feel like a fifth wheel in a group and scared on my own! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[LadyShylah]

I posted this somewhere else, but here's a problem I found last night (not sure if this is all ready known) but here it is pasted:-----I am a level 26 Troubador with the Tracking ability. Last night, I played and my tracking was broken as well as my waypoint 'finder.'I can pull up a list of creatures to track but when I try to get a gold trail, there is none. A message pops that says something to the effect of: The thing you're looking for is too far away, you sense it to the East.So, I thought, fair enough, I'll just head that way and get closer. Well, I got to the creature I was looking for which was standing a few feet away from me and tested the tracking again. It gave no gold trail and it said again: The thing you're looking for is too far away, you sense it to the East.Anyone else have this problem?-----

[RobertQuicksilv]

I actually had the identical problem with my alt Crusader, I clicked on bank on map (in Big Bend) and it said same message even though I was right next to it. Sadly its not a scout exclusive problem.

[LadyShylah]

I heard they fixed the tracking problem today (Feb. 4)Whew!<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[ariurb]

<DIV>As a level 31 Troubador, I feel everyones pain <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV>Last night i stacked my 3 stat buffs (Rousing,Raxxyl, and Niv's) on my group as usual and then did not use those songs on our next encounter with Clay Mobs in RoV.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We all got dmg from hits just the same as when I buffed or did not buff songs. ><</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know if we look on our Personal stats, we do see STR and AGI go up slightly, but now since the patch, we (esp. the Paladin) are getting hit the same amount of times as with no song buffs ><</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I feel as if those buffs are useless now. I did not see any difference in getting hit or amount of dmg we were outputing to the mob. Even though u can see the stats go up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Perhaps because the mobs are buffed slightly too high? But something here is wrong.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have seen tons of complaints about this issue on the forums and I have not seen ANY DEV. reply to any of these complaints, or even try to answer these complaints.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They say the developers look at these boards, but when we dont see any developers giving back any replies to these complaints (especially this big of an issue), it makes us feel as if they are not looking into these complaints...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And if one complains too much, the thread is locked ><</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe Moorgard can help us out....pretty please...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by ariurban on <span class=date_text>02-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:05 PM</span>

[SGrim]

<DIV>And while you're looking at rebalancing Troubadors... quit giving us worthless stealth attacks if you're not going to give us a way to quickly stealth mid-combat.  Nobody's going to use a stealth attack that does 10 pts more dmg if it takes them 3-5 seconds to stop combat, lose all aggro and then stealth just so they can do a single attack.  We need Stalk or similar skill or replace our stealth attacks with something that'll get used.</DIV>

[Xenok]

<DIV>throws in his 2cp and lvl 50 AQ armor.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This sucks.</DIV>

[Milost]

<DIV>EDIT: browser went crazy... multiple post</DIV><p>Message Edited by Milostyl on <span class=date_text>02-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:53 PM</span>

[Milost]

<DIV>EDIT: browser went crazy... multiple post</DIV><p>Message Edited by Milostyl on <span class=date_text>02-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:53 PM</span>

[Milost]

<DIV>EDIT: browser went crazy... multiple post</DIV><p>Message Edited by Milostyl on <span class=date_text>02-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:53 PM</span>

[Milost]

<DIV>I will chime in as well.  Level 34 troubador on Innothule.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>After reading through some of the posts I find some things I agree with and several I don't.  First off, it would be good if people tried very hard not to exaggerate the matter to make a point.  I wouldn't call my troubador useless to a group now but there was a definite hit taken to the overall utility of the class.   Soloing is no longer very viable but this is true for most scouts across the board.  What is most disturbing to me is that the entire "support" role basis of the troubador is just not there anymore.  We are the weakest DPS scout but we have been able to make up for it with our utility and support through beneficial song effects.  Now we are just the weakest DPS scout with very limited utility.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Haste - affects only base DPS which is a very small percentage of actual group DPS during most encounters  (trivial benefit)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Aria Procs - parsed logs have shown that the extra damage from the infrequent proc is around 3%, concentration spent on a spell that ultimately does nothing the                      majority of the time (negligible benefit)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>AGI/Stat buffs - while the ability to stack these to incredible amounts of buffed statistics was a needed fix and obviously overpowered, the fact that SOE has</DIV> <DIV>                    effectively removed all benefit from having these up is abosolutely absurd.  They scaled it down from overpowered to ineffective. A group is better off</DIV> <DIV>                    snagging another healer in our place because the damage is going to rip through our buffs as if they weren't even there.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>HP Regen - Has anyone to this day found a good use for this?  Mobs are blowing through 100s and 1000s of hit points in a matter of a few seconds and our little tune </DIV> <DIV>                    pops out 7 points a tick.  Yeah, that's about the most pointless thing ever.  There is no such thing as downtime healing like EQ1 thanks to the food/water</DIV> <DIV>                    system so... why exactly is this even a skill?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mana Regen - Again, stocking up on good water is the one solution to fast and efficient mana recovery.  The bard regen is subpar in comparison to all other manners</DIV> <DIV>                    of recovering mana but even with that admission, the mana regen at least might allow a caster to get off 1 or 2 extra spells in the course of a long fight.</DIV> <DIV>                    That is at least something... but really it only counts in fights where casters are running out of mana.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Arcane Mitigation - It works as a good taunt, aside from that, mitigating arcane damage from mob casters that consistently seem to wrack up damage totals in the</DIV> <DIV>                    1000s would be great if the mitigation was something that seemed to make a difference.  From what I have seen it acts as a buff to resists for the group</DIV> <DIV>                    but my whole grasp of how resists work is a little skewed... seeing as how I usually have resists over the 1k range while grouped and yet spellcaster </DIV> <DIV>                    mobs still smash me mercilessly.  At what point does mitigating the damage become useful?  I might be missing something.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Self Buffs - mostly agility and parry.  The parry buff seems to work reasonably well still but of course, agility has already been covered as mostly useless.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>.....</DIV> <DIV>All of these abilities are on short durations meaning we have to cycle them repeatedly, over... and over... and over.... and over... all night long for what could be considered negligible benefit.  I find myself constantly checking the timer and refreshing with 1 minute left so I don't accidentally end up pulling aggro from the mobs during a pull trying to get the songs back up.  Sometimes I don't even bother putting them back up and honestly, I can barely tell much if any difference at all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A troubador brings very little to the table now to compensate for the lowest scale on scout dps.  It's disheartening.  The only thing I really feel my class is ultimately useful for anymore is power drain.  Swindle Essence is the number one skill now for it's efficiency in draining large chunks of power from mobs.</DIV>

[Ragnarok]

<DIV>/signed</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I tried making a thread on troubador issues a while back. It recieved lots of prise from other troubador players, but no attention what-so-ever from "red cons". Troubadors are being nerfed over and over, I count at least 4 different nerfs of our abilities, stealth-applied or announced.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Combine that with skills not working as intended, and you have a close to broken class.</DIV>

[aeio]

I am a level 35 troubador, the change has had a minimal impact on my playstyle. We must remember that those buffs that buff agility also provide a HUGE benefit to strength (more damage output for the entire group), and stamina (more hit points for the entire group.)Not to mention we have a huge arsenal of useful abilities. While I can see some classes upset by the changes, Troubador is not one of them.If groups don't take you because you can't help them exploit any more, well that is tough beans. Troubadors still have a ton to offer and are one of the most versatile classes in the game.

[Tempus Vern]

What does str and sta do other than add some power to tha fighters and some hp ?Stack 3 stats song then use a parser on 20 or so fight with and then 20 without and you will see almost same average dps and same average damage taken.

[aeio]

Strength increases your attack rating, which increases your damage in melee combat.I would love to see your parses where you show a 100 point difference in strength makes no effect in the amount of melee damage done over time.<p>Message Edited by aeiouy on <span class=date_text>02-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:36 PM</span>

[Belisarius]

<DIV>I would quit my trob for any other class in the blink of an eye if I wasnt already at the same lvl as my friends. I thought Sony would take care of us, but from MGs post today the next big patch si for Wizards and defilers. looks like were left out again. They always leave classes like this out and brush us to the side, it happened in EQ 1 and its happening now. We wont see a change for a year from now when half of us have quit becuase of this garbage.</DIV>

[Nevari]

I have to disagree. Troubador is still a very rewarding aswell a more difficult subclass to play.Wizards and Warlocks are pretty much... screwed right now? I think that hits the point of it so yes I do agree that they need more careful treating bringing them in shape now.Forget over it Troubador? No way mister!But priorities are ok and I'm fine with it for now.Till then we got time to give input on a the troub tweak which is needed in my opinion aswell.

[o]

Yeah AC doesn't tell mitigation. Kind of useless number. Maybe a mitigation number and a skills number (dodge/parry) in parenthesis would work better.

[Shiloh]

<DIV>I'm not uber or even very knowledgeable.  Lvl 28 Troub.  But I've noticed since the patch:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Green con owlbears will now smack the heck out of me.  Green con skeletons in TS will often do 150+ damage to me.  Both of these happen even when I am parrying, fully buffed, etc.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have died or had to run away from about half of the blue mobs I fought.   I don't dare try white mobs now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Again, I'm not an expert, and could be doing something wrong.  But the DEFINITION of green and blue cons is that I should be able to beat them more often than I can now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Finally, I want to mention that I've been INVITED to a group maybe twice since the patch.  I've run up to some groups and asked point-blank to join and they've taken me, but OOC LFG is *not* getting invites.  Maybe I'm a jerk (I don't really think so.)  But before the patch I DID have people in groups thank me for the buffs.  Since then, nada.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is all subjective, of course.   But I haven't levelled in over a week's worth of trying.  (currently 58%  and have had MANY more deaths in the last week than usual)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I understand we are still a class with good, varied skills.  But my own experience is that I am a MUCH weaker solo player and not getting invited to groups NEARLY as often as before.  (Again, I might just suck.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Your mileage will vary.)</DIV>

[Archma]

<DIV>nerfed a lot. Trying to find reasons why I should still play like:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- My friends will still group with me, even if I am only a burden now.</DIV> <DIV>- Dont worry - nsomeone has to play the fool.</DIV> <DIV>- you can still go crafting - as a lvl 30 tailor paople will buy a backpack from you now and then.</DIV> <DIV>- the weather outside is bad so stop complaining, close your eyes and play.</DIV> <DIV>- You are not a Troubadour to increase your groups power, you are a troubadour to - hm, well I dont really know, help me out here....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(lvl 40 troub, oasis)</DIV>

[ShiroiOokami]

Gonna add one more here:=You can buff the strength of fellow tradesman to let them carry around their 6 boxes.

[shan]

no use, complaints falling on deaf ears realy.i am no longer touching my troub and i am thinking of deleting him cause it causes pain every time i know i have a 26 char totally broken due to SOE inapt thinking and messed up logic. and i say it complete incompetence ( hey moorgard, want a "proper" test plan for other classes before someone breaks them and turn them to useless?sorry i am just filled with contempt and i still cant understand that reasoning, guess you can say am stil little ticked off. hence the tone of my post.

[Rikini]

<DIV>It's funny. I go into the Cleric forum and read the complaints and there are as many there saying, no, there really aren't game-breaker problems, it is more how you play then troubles with spells.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I go into the Warden forum, and read through the 'we generate more aggro than anyone else' thread and there are as many people saying the OP is full of it, as there are agreeing with him.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Same for all the rest of the forums that I've read through.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And then there are us.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The jack-of-all-trades, masters-of-none, with no real benefits either solo or to groups.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And not one person has disagreed that we are now next to useless.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have always been of the opinion that our spells and powers aren't actually broken, just not working like we wished they would. Unfotunatly, now I'm of the opinion that we're just ... broken. :smileysad:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My main is a 26 Troubador. My alts are a 22 Conjurer and a 19 Cleric. I'm the GL of a guild. I guess I'm just going to play my caster and healer and concentrate on working with the guild in our forums.... oh wait, they don't work either.  :smileymad:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Tempus Vern]

Well i wont post the parse here because thats kinda huge you can just go and download combatstats to test yourself.But with both 2 raxxyls and niv my str is way over 200 and my dps is around 55 at 39 the monk in my party is 110 dps. Without the buff i m still around 55 and monk dps is not lowered much 105-110 dps most of the fights. This was tested on lv 40 monsters in rivervale.So strenght affect attack in your personal stats but it doesnt affect dps much.

[Noodles]

<DIV>I'm a 43.85 troubador and have decided to take 7+ days off to boycott this nerf.  It's ridiculous how crappy I feel when I play now.  Still lowest DPS in groups, buffs not nearly as effective as before, and when I take on mobs I could easily solo before, I kiss the ground pretty fast.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The change is too drastic to deal with.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am probably asking too much if I ask you all to hang up your Troubs for a while to show how serious this issue is, but it's the best way for me to ease the pain and show SOE I mean business.  Passive aggression, garr!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[noogabooga]

<DIV>Agree with most of what have been said about the Troubadour. SOE doesnt know how to `balance` the game in my experience; they always tend to over-nerf things to an almost useless state. They are mereley reacting with minimum foresight. *sigh*</DIV>

[Tharn]

<DIV>Heh heh...  Should have just started out with you generic warrior, rogue, priest, mage and let things develop for a while before making 6 of each...  Anyone know of a class that gets some significant ability changes as it levels?  I've been looking round at the other sub-classes, but seems most are going to be just higher-powered version of the 20s for the 30s, 40s, and 50.  Ok, I know we get a heal boost song at 30 and mez at 50, but most of our skills are just repeats.  Seems to be the same with all the rest...  Breathe water for a couple or something similar.  Really would have rather seen a limited number of class lines that gained new abilities as they grew rather than a slightly strengthened version of what they already had...  Hesitant to give up so early, but I'm only half way to 50 and I'd have to say I'm already getting bored. I've been playing considerably less in the last 6 weeks.  Just enough to be miffed about the scope of recent changes.  Guess I could always cancel for a while and play Warcraft or something.  They've got to add some more variety at some point, haven't they?</DIV>

[missing_peace]

There was an announcment concerning the contents of the next big patch.<BR><BR>There will be a reduction to the effectiveness of strength for increasing melee damage.<BR><BR>This is the second big nerf to the troubador's buffing ability. With this change the ability of the troubador to enhance the capabilities of a group is far, far less than the original design. Even though we take a second big hit to one of our primary abilities, there are NO changes mentioned in the notes for rebalancing bard classes.<BR><BR>To be honest, I don't expect to see any bard changes with this second big patch. This one will be all about the wizards. We will have to endure being a shell of our former selves until at least big patch #3.

[Seth]

<DIV>Enjoy ! New NERF incoming in next major udapte :smileymad:</DIV>

[Cool Bree]

<DIV><SPAN>Developers do not love troubadours :smileysad:</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN>--</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN>troubadour 50</SPAN></DIV>

[Andric_D]

I think the double whammy of agi and str getting nerfed is a bit much with no loving to up our utility/damage/effectivness in other areas. There seem few enough of us as it is and it does concern me that these nerfs seem to be without any consideration for us whom a) rely on teh stats for our damage and survivability and b) have our role of augmenting our groupmates being made ar less usefull/needed. Think they shoudl make haste affect ability timers for bard types, and a damage mitigation component to out stat buff songs,

[Vermillio]

new nerf on the way, folks. decrease effectiveness on str bonus and sta bonus and more BS, i see no tomorrow for our beloved class 8( worst of all, they decided to nerf the players' hardearn mounts. (my guild just got lvl 20 a week ago with all the patrons' hardwork, and most of us spent 100k status pts and few plats to get ourselves the tier 3 mounts, now nerf. legend jboot + sow is probably faster than mounts now)if you guys wanna post feedbacks, there is a topic from the Dev under Gameplay > Races & characters.-Vermillion, 42 troubador of Gravestone Coven, Antonia Bayle

[Noodles]

Yep, I invested so much in my Troub and recently bought a 10P horse. Double whammy here. /single tear

[HannaIcebla]

<DIV>why not just kick me in the '[Removed for Content] and steal my shoes while you're at it? .. the words chocolate and fireguard spring to mind.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>:smileysurprised:</DIV>

[Milost]

<DIV>I had my 34 troubador grouped last night in Nektropos Castle.  The group consisted of a 33 ranger, 34 ranger, 38 guardian, 35 inquisitor, 32 illusionist and myself, 34 troubador.  One of the rangers had the program that computed total damage per fight and spit out the average dps for each member.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I group regularly with the two rangers mentioned and we have some of the same equipment, at least one of our weapon slots was exactly the same.  I tried every different combination of damage and skill selection I could come up with and many times raced to finish HOs over my ranger counterparts.  Even still, the computed numbers churned out the following rankings:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) Either one of the rangers</DIV> <DIV>2) Whichever one of the rangers that fell short, sometimes the guardian</DIV> <DIV>3) The guardian and sometimes one of the rangers</DIV> <DIV>4) I split time with the inquisitor here</DIV> <DIV>5) I split time with the inquisitor here</DIV> <DIV>6) Illusionist</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The inquisitor was focusing on pure damage spells since most of the mobs weren't touching the 38 guard.  This is why usually the inquisitor would beat me out on dps.  It would be the same or worse if there was a second healer doing a pure dps role while the primary healer just healed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It could be argued that without the troub in grp, the rest of the classes wouldn't have had as much dps without the songs up.  I would say that our songs are things that people don't even bother looking for and could really care less about.  If a secondary healer filling a slot as a dps can do more damage than we can, we are basically not worth a spot.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I want to do some more testing of this before I lose all hope.  I now have a dps calculator on my comp and I will be looking at more group combinations and such in the next few days.</DIV>

[Noodles]

Milo, our buffs have been VERY highly respected, that is until the agi, and soon, str/sta nerfs. But I hear your plight on the dps. I chose to play a bard, and specifically a Troub, for his support capabilities. Now, that aspect is ripped from underneath us, leaving our buffs weak and our dps, which was a it's-ok-i-make-up-for-it-in-buffs-low, at a new low.

[Nobol]

Can you add "Bards" unite to your title, we are all [Removed for Content] <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Vermillio]

------------------------------<p>Message Edited by Vermillionn on <span class=date_text>02-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:46 AM</span>

[Tae]

If I see any more Nerfs then I think its time for me to consider WOW. Our damage is low which our stat buffs make up for. With all the nerfs in our buffs....what the heck are we? Paper Doll Damage dealers. You paper cut a gnoll for 5 points of damage. Gnoll slashes you for 160 points of damage. You paper cut a gnoll for 2 points of damage. Gnoll laughs at you.

[o]

Its kind of stupid to reduce str and agi effectiveness. I mean whats the difference between a +10 str sword and a +5 str sword. Next to nothing yet you pay 10 more gold or whatever. Troubadors buff +100 str to everyone in the group (im level 32) which is prob more than double of all their armor/weapon bonuses.