Share Information about Train

[Tessai]

<DIV><FONT size=2>We have received new trainings by the lastest patch, it was tough decision for me</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>We better share information about trains we have selected so it can help others who havent decided yet to choose trains</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>Revised according to replies on this post and information from other threads</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>10 lvl train</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>1) Root : Cool timer shares with Ensnare line, Maximum duration of Root seems to be 10 sec, if you cast this song on high level mob, duration seems to be shorter randomlyh but it is still worth</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>2) Defense debuff with damage debuff : Cool timer shares with Dirty trick line</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>3) Flank attack : Cool timer with our flank attack line</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>4) Attack with mental mitigation debuff :Cool timer with Sparking blade line, </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>20 lvl Train</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>1) Str/agi/sta buff : This spell stacks with Raxxyl but not Rousing tune, Concentration 1, very nice buff</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>2) Power regen song with Int buff : 6 power regen per tick 14 or so Int boost, dont stack with Bria(tho Int boost will be up, power regen amount is overlapped by 27 lvl song) cf) 27 lvl song - 7 pt App1, 8 pt App4, 9 pt Adept3</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>3) Mental DD : Cool time with Piercing shriek</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>4) Mendal AE : Cool time with Lamentation line</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>This is my personal opinion : among 10 level trainings, Root seems to be a good choice cause its unique ability Troubador cannot get normally, you can root mob to save caster being hit, running from aggro'ed mob, root then shoot singing shot line, you can build up many tactics with it while other 10 level trainings will be overlapped by high level skills</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>among 20 level trainings, Vhalen(buff song) seems to be a good choice, power regen song doesnt stack with 27 lvl power song which regens more power but Vhalen stacks with Raxxyl and you will use this song for long time even when you are high level because you can stack buff line songs and this is Troubador's main DPS boost ability</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>I need exact list of 30 lvl and 40 lvl Trainings then I will arrange them into my writings here so other people can find information more easily</FONT></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Tessaire on <SPAN class=date_text>01-06-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:06 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Tessaire on <span class=date_text>01-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:49 PM</span>

[Noom]

<DIV>Hi im lvl 23.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I choosed at..............</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lvl 10 : Flank attack. It does slightly more damage then Taffo and tick for around 15, not sure but 3-4 ticks i think.</DIV> <DIV>             Share timer with Taffo.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lvl 20 : Also choosed the Str/Agi/Sta buff and it buffs 21 insteed of 20 from my adebt 1 Rousing tune.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[WorldsAway_Nybor]

<DIV>I went for the root and the str/agi/sta buff, and both seem to be working fairly well. The root worked for me on the lesser named on the final part of Zek access, which was con yellow. Recast is quite quick as well, might be useful if you get agro after using Bria's Entrancing Sonnet and the MT doesn't pull it off right away. The buff along with Raxxyl's for me adds about 6-7 more to the stats than Rousing Tune adept 1, but I haven't checked it out fully yet or found a flaw. Perhaps the flaw is these can't be upgraded (can they?) so Rousing Tune adept2/3/4 master 1 might be more powerful for all I know :smileyhappy:</DIV>

[Sharkan]

<DIV>At lvl 20 <STRONG>Cassindra's Chant of Clarity </STRONG>stacks with <STRONG>Bria's stirring ballad</STRONG> and adds 3 more  power regen / tick. (uses 1 concentration slot though)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Could be usefull during long fight...</DIV>

[RobertQuicksilv]

I went with flank attack and Strength/Agility/Stamina/Health Buff, will give raw data later on tonight. I think the buff adds +4 to each attribute.

[Zionenig]

<DIV>at 10 i took the flank attack thing,</DIV> <DIV>and at 20 i took the str/agi/sta buff, and the most strangest thing is, my rousing tune is on master 1, and this new buff works better than it..lol</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>but hey cant complain i get a bit more..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[adalr]

<DIV>Damage debuff at level 10  :  I use the power depleting snare so had no use for the root/snare.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>AE damage + dot at level 20  :  It is on the same timer as the lamment and the DOT is only on the primary target.  At level 24 the damage over time was roughly 26/tick.</DIV>

[Daehron]

<P>I took the defense debuff / dmg debuff and sta/str/agi/hp buff.<BR><BR>I like the new dmg debuff, no hard data, but I was taking down much tougher beasties last night than the night before. Not a perfect comparison for a couple reasons... 1) I upgraded armor to medium everywhere so my AC jumped ALOT 2) I took Ayr'Dal Assault over power+ Sta+ racial bonus (more DPS > 4 pp and 2 sta).<BR><BR>I am unimpressed with the Rousing Tune buff. I keep Bria's Stirring Ballad (1 concentration), Songster's Luck (2 Conc.), and Merciless Melody (2 conc) up by default (max conc there), and add Performer's Talent (self only agi and arcane resist), and Insatiable Ardor (self only parry buff) up when soloing and grouping as nec.<BR><BR>IMHO Songsters Luck {Increases all group members' offensive and defensive chances in combat. This includes melee, ranged, and magical combat} is better to have up than Rousing Tune {Increases Strength, Agility, and Stamina for the group}. The training upgrade gave me 3 more HP than Rousing Tune (Adept I).<BR><BR>In retrospect, given my playstyle, I would have been better served with the Piercing Shriek upgrade. As it stands, I will use the Rousing Tune upgrade only when grouped with another Bard.<BR><BR>My assessment of the other choices: (text snipped from Tessaire's post)<BR><BR>10 lvl train<BR><BR>1) Root --- <BR><BR>Bard ghetto mez... nice --- would like this but though defense dmg debuff would be more useful given my experience with root in EQ2 (unreliable at best)<BR><BR>2) Defense debuff with damage debuff : <BR><BR>my choice - I like to melee solo (lvl 20 now so not likely to continue I assume) and the additional dmg debuff is what sold me. (I assume the base def. debuff is the same - see my comment on the rousing tune upgrade below)<BR><BR>3) Flank attack : <BR><BR>I prefer Taffo - the power drain dot >> more damage I like that I can get a mob's power bar to zero fast... means less special attacks / nukes / heals therefore faster fights.<BR><BR>4) Attack with mental mitigation debuff : I am happy with Sparkling Blade - want an additional attack not a replacement.<BR><BR>20 lvl Train<BR><BR>> 1) Str/agi/sta buff : Concentration 1, This song overlaps Rousing tune, you can sing both songs but effect cannot be<BR>> stacked, slightly better than Rousing tune(adept I). <BR><BR>This gave me a net 3 hp at lvl 20, sta, str and agi stayed the same. This upgrade adds HP in addition to the existing sta/str/agi buff. If it increased the other stats in adddition to the added HP... might have been good. </P> <P>Not a significant upgrade imho, esp for a buff I dont use anymore. If I got an adept 2/3 for Rousing Tune, I assume it will be better than this upgrade. I am chalking this one up to an 'oh well, hope they redo the training points again so I can change my selection' ;-p<BR><BR>> 2) Power regen song with Int buff : need confirmation about stacking with 13 lvl or 27 lvl Power regen song, Icon should <BR>> be stacked but need to check if 'effect' stacks and we can gain more power regen, also need confirmation about exact<BR>> regen amount per tick<BR><BR>My assumption is that the power regen will be the same, but INT will go up by a couple points. </P> <P>If our power pool is determined by our INT this might be a good thing. I am thinking this is better than the choice I made (Rousing tune upgrade) but not by much.<BR><BR><BR>> 3) Mental DD : should share cool time with Piercing shriek, need confirmation about damage enhancement(Piercing shriek<BR>> and Cantata)<BR><BR>This is the one I think I should have taken. I use Shriek a lot, a nice big nuke, long cast, but I find it useful on the pull to soften up the mobs. </P> <P>Bigger nukes are good things.<BR><BR>> 4) Mendal AE : should share cool time with Lamentation line, need confirmation about damage enhancement(Lamentation and <BR>> Alins refrain) - sorry I cannot recall exact name of songs but you should know what I mean<BR><BR>Interesting, though since I use this less than Shriek, I see this as less useful. Also, if I am in a group with a mezzer, this song is never going to be used. </P> <P>(DoT's + Mezz == lotsa people screaming at the bard)</P>

[Albri]

At level 10 took mob debuff...At 20 took Clarity (Bria's upgrade).It regens 10/tick and stacks with Bria's. I had both going and they work independant. I drained power down - hit a grey mob and then watched my power bar. I would get ticks for 10 from Clarity song and then slightly offset, 6 for my Bria's. Essentially 16/tick but they do not happen consecutively.The buff songs appear to be on different timers than the songs they "upgrade" and appear to stack. Thus picking Clarity or stat upgrade song makes you a stud at buffing that aspect.

[Daehron]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Albrien wrote:<BR>At level 10 took mob debuff...<BR><BR><BR>At 20 took Clarity (Bria's upgrade).<BR>It regens 10/tick and stacks with Bria's. I had both going and they work independant. I drained power down - hit a grey mob and then watched my power bar. I would get ticks for 10 from Clarity song and then slightly offset, 6 for my Bria's. Essentially 16/tick but they do not happen consecutively.<BR><BR>The buff songs appear to be on different timers than the songs they "upgrade" and appear to stack. Thus picking Clarity or stat upgrade song makes you a stud at buffing that aspect.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> WOW!!! then obviously that is the upgrade to get.  Stacking power regen, very nice.

[britn]

Weird, for me I can stack both Rousing and the lvl 20 stat buff. I'll have to check again. I know that before patch I was at ~190 agil with all my stat buffs now I'm near ~240. With performer's and elisee's bumps me to 283.I also chose the next stat buff, Nhiv's something which I also believe stacks with everything. I was told that the manasong did NOT stack, so I didn't bother choosing that one. If someone can either confirm/deny this I would appreciate it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Lvl 40 I picked a songster's luck type spell. Does not stack, and gives 6pt boost to defense/offense skills. Not bad, considering it does what songsters+minstrel's used to do stacked. Other options were for a DOT, Weapon proc. buff, and I believe 1 area and 1 single target damage spells. Probably should have picked the dot, since I'm almost 100% certain the weapon proc won't stack with aria line. Looks like songster's and minstrel's fortune no longer stack either.I usually decline the damage spells, because I don't know the dmg or what timer its linked to. It's also not as group effective.I'm also very curious about the hp regen .... anyone know what this ticks and if it stacks with our regular one? Would be awesome if bards could do about ~60hp/tick.<p>Message Edited by britney on <span class=date_text>01-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:25 PM</span>

[Albri]

Did some more testing - they are on seperate timers, but it looks like Bria's and Clarity song DO NOT STACK. Total waste of a train... bah.

[bellring]

<DIV>dirge are better of then us thay get training that stacks with there pathing so thay run faster then the troub </DIV>

[Jark]

I just picked the lvl20 upgrade to rousing tune, its marginally better than my appIII and doesn't stack....just thought you would like to know

[bellring]

<DIV>up to now my adept 3 bria thrilling and the new power song both stack plus i timed them to gether and i got a exter 5 sec on my sprint.plus this is adept 2 song based on the stirring song.</DIV> <DIV>also the rouseing tune song and the lvl 20 both stack as we all know will the other new type song like them stacks with them 2</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>in el tonight i had the 2 power song and the 3 rouseing tunes all together.</DIV> <DIV>weather its mrent to be like this or not i cant till but thay are stacking</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Yargh]

<DIV>well,rousing and vhalens don't stack (tested it myself, others posted it), so please try to keep misinformation out of this thread and only posted stuff you are ABSOLUTELY sure of.</DIV>

[bellring]

<DIV>yes thay do got my agi up to 130 odd with the rouseing type songs and i was not playing any agi songs ether</DIV> <DIV>played the song one at a time till 3 was up and i saw them stack.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by bellringer on <span class=date_text>01-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:28 PM</span>

[Yargh]

<DIV>trying to clarify this, you may be lvl 30+, so actually these three stat buffs might stack for you:</DIV> <DIV>Vhalen's (rousing tunes training upgrade at 20)</DIV> <DIV>Raxxyls </DIV> <DIV>and the lvl 30 training stat buff (i don't know it's name)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>since raxxyls and the 30 TS are reported to stack this would make sense - can anyone confirm that these three stack in effect?</DIV> <DIV>I can just verify that Rousing Tune and Vhalen (lvl 20 TS) don't stack, but oc Vhalen's and Raxxyl's stack, like Rousing Tunes and Raxxyl's did.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yarghon, 26 Ogre Troub, Runnyeye</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Ragnarok]

<DIV>Niv's Song of Harmony is awesome. It might be the lvl 40 one tho, I am not sure <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I took it, and it adds 38 str/agi/sta and +20 atk, barely beaten by Raxxyl's Vivcous Descant which adds 42 to each attribute, but I haven't gotten a good adept or master of that yet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Vhalen's Stirring tune is decent. Adds 29 to each attribute and you can run it along with the others. I currently run 4 attribute buffs for a total of 142 each attribute and ~80ish +atk (base on how it affects me). Makes melee fighters go at it like they're 5 lvls higher...rocks.</DIV>

[Blith]

TRAINING, not train. When I first saw this post I thought it was going be something about someone running with a large group of mobs chasing them.

[britn]

Vhalen's is a nice upgrade to rousing tune, even if you have the master since it adds several hundred hp.Nhiv's is a lvl 30 pick, great as well.The only one I feel jipped on is the lvl 40 pick... the upgrade to songsters luck which adds a whopping 6-7 pts to your atk and def skills.

[Nevari]

<blockquote><hr>RagnarokDK wrote:<DIV>Niv's Song of Harmony is awesome. It might be the lvl 40 one tho, I am not sure <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>I took it, and it adds 38 str/agi/sta and +20 atk, barely beaten by Raxxyl's Vivcous Descant which adds 42 to each attribute, but I haven't gotten a good adept or master of that yet.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Vhalen's Stirring tune is decent. Adds 29 to each attribute and you can run it along with the others. I currently run 4 attribute buffs for a total of 142 each attribute and ~80ish +atk (base on how it affects me). Makes melee fighters go at it like they're 5 lvls higher...rocks.</DIV><hr></blockquote>Troubador level 30 here. After reading the thread I switched back and cast:1. Rousing Tune +202. Raxxyl's Energizing Harmony +293. Vhalen's Stirring Tune +10All did stack and song 1 & 2 are Adept 1 level. Tho there were thread(s) in the past discussing the possibility of the attributes shown being bugged.So next step canceling Raxxyl's Energizing Harmony. And suddenly my attributes are buffed for 29 points and not 30 as expected.Try casting the songs in different order, cancel them in different order and you get different outcome. One thing is sure and that is that they DO stack.Edit: Just for fun cancelled Rousing Tune after casting all three. Outcome? Attributes still same buffed. Bug? I guess so. Conclusion? /shrug?<p>Message Edited by Nevarion on <span class=date_text>01-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:27 AM</span>

[Noom]

<DIV>Hi Nevarion !</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you cast Rousing tune last you will see that nothing happens with stats, thats why they</DIV> <DIV>dont go down when you cancel it. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So Rousing tune dont stack with Vhalen's, confusion here is when you cast Rousing tune first.</DIV> <DIV>Sure it will buff stats but when you add Vhalen's it outbuffs Rousing tune, at this point Rousing does</DIV> <DIV>nothing except take up a con-slot.</DIV>

[Mezzelli]

<DIV>Short Numbers Analysis for <FONT color=#ffcc00>Level 10 training </FONT>for <STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000 size=4>Kelkarn's Opening Act </FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I took this one for my level 10 after reading this post.  I figured I'd come back to give a few numbers from a test I did.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm an 11 bard <EM>(yes I had twelve rewards queued behind the training choice) </EM>fighting in the Forest Ruins, fighting the exact same Forgotten Guardian.  Basically to test, I attacked a blue (lvl 10) FG checking the damage, but would run from the encounter without killing it.  I did three fights before taking Kelkarn's and three fights after.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>During the pre-Kelkarn fights the FG hit for 32-38 on average  (low 28, high 40)</DIV> <DIV>During the post-Kelkarn fights the FG hit for 24-28  after use   (low 22, high 30)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At one point, after using Kelkarn's  the FG  hit for 15, 14, 22, 18 , then the "wore off" message showed in the chat and its damage returned to the low 30's again.  (perhaps this ability can crit in so way)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hope this is helpful,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>--Mezz</DIV>

[Irian]

Because SOE is going to reset all training options, I decided to choose some of the oddest abilities for training. These included things like Kelkarn's Opening Act and Vhalen's Aria of Excitement, just so I could parse how these are improvements over the abilities they're based upon.With some informal testing, Vhalen's Aria of Excitement has procced about 15% more often than Aria of Excitement. This is in a duo of a troubadour and a templar though. I've also not yet parsed what the proc rates are per unit of time. Just quick and dirty testing, so take it as you will <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Overall contribution to damage output seems to hover somewhere around 5% or so for us. One time ten procs went off in a fight with a great briarpaw in the Enchanted Lands, accounting for a full 1/7th of the total damage done.<i>Edit:</i> Vhalen's Aria of Excitement costs 46 power and 1 concentration slot, and adds 15 agility in addition to the proc. The agility bonus does not stack with Elise's Ditty agility bonus; Elise's agi bonus overwrites Vhalen's. The agility bonus <i>does</i> stack with Performer's Talent.<p>Message Edited by Irianta on <span class=date_text>01-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:01 PM</span>

[Mut19]

<DIV>I'm currently 35, for my first I chose one of the attacks offered which to me was a mistake because I already had a better attack to replace it <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> if I got to chose over I probably would have went with the root ability offered.  Second choice I went with the mana regen ability which I hardly use cause I need the Con. slots, and for my 3rd choice I went with the str/sta/agi buff which I am very happy with because it does stack with my other str/sta/agi buff so i can get my stats around 190-200 str/180-190 sta/215-220 agi, they range on what gear I have equiped.</DIV>

[Orki who Pos]

<DIV>The debuff in kelkarns opening act is a back breaker for grey green and blue solo mobs, and also seem to have a significant effect on whites.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I however believe it is like the defiler mob debuffs (long parsed tests on the defiler boards) and the effect scales poorly when the mobs increase in power (read orange solo mobs, or blue++ group mobs)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have not seen a significant effect on white ^^ mobs using the opening act, but i need more parses to be certain, since my tank levelled up while i was gathering data.</DIV>

[Myrddhinn]

<DIV>Currently 24.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I took Root for the "Bag full of tricks" i love to play with this class. It is sooo funny to see the way Magic-users react to this unique ability <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then i took the Shriek, mainly because my Rousing Tune was Ad. III and my Piercing was only App. III. (I would have chosen something else to increase to Ad. III but this was a gift from my preferred jeweler <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Good shrieking is cool to pull non-agressives Solos. Though I prefer debuff them when in Groups.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyone for the next Tiers trainings ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>