level 20 uniqueness ability

[Raol]

I'm sorry, but bards (both troubadors and dirges) got the shaft, when it comes to our unique ability.Okay, I can accept that not everyone should get a horse or form, or be able to wear cool looking armor. Thats fine. Its even okay that we don't get anything that lasts a while, like a frog form, familiar or companion, glowing hands, etc...But our celebration song A: doesn't have a lasting effect, B: can only be noticed when one's grouped, C: uses a pre-existing, publically available animation, D: annoys people to no end.The dance animation is ugly, too. You'd think bards would learn how to dance better. And, the spell effects look like the person is exploding, not celebrating. *sigh*Recommendations to make it better:-Make the spell apply to EVERYONE in the group, so we all dance together (as the description implies).-Play some music at the same time (even just the music thats played during one of our NORMAL songs)-Make the spell effects look more... celebratory, and remove the flat grey part that blocks vision.-show the bard playing an instrument, not just standing there-put in a better animation than the standard dance (perhaps everyone takes their weapon out, jabs the air, flips the weapon, puts it away)Recommendations to replace it:-Soothe the savage beast: a sneak song, similar to walk lightly, that doesn't turn us invisible to other players, perhaps with some lasting spell effects (like playing a lute the whole time). Breaks when bard does anything, just like sneak.-Group summon ale - song and spirits are the best way to celebrate after a long fight. Only has to summon one ale at a time, with moderate recast, to prevent it from replacing priest summoning.-[for dirges]: snake dance: animation that shows a snake coming out of a basket, dancing a bit, and then following the bard (like a familiar or ranger pet)my personal favorite:-Larger than life: The stories about bards always describe them as 10 feet tall, with dashing good looks, and a smile that never ends. How about a song that makes the bard physically bigger in outdoor zones? [would be awesome if it had some runspeed increase, like horses or wolves]

[LudaChr]

<DIV>/AGREE</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Make the whole group dance atleast!! A sound effect with the bard playing an instrument would be awesome as well :smileysad:</DIV>

[Bladezil]

<DIV>Agreed. As a troubador I feel so ripped off it isn't funny. Probably one of the reasons I am leveling my Ogre Crusader (soon to be paladin).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ccffff size=4>- Valcutio <FONT color=#ff0033>Phoenix </FONT>/ <FONT color=#333333>Blade</FONT><FONT color=#006600>zilla</FONT> Killa -</FONT></DIV></DIV>

[Tannier]

To heck with all that, just make it give us Selo's Song of Travel, which is what every bard expected and wanted in the first place when they made the character.

[At]

<DIV>Replace it with a runspeed song so I can run fast!</DIV>

[PiyoTu]

<DIV>Honestly!! I sure hope the Devs see this post and do something about it QUICKLY.. I'm seriously thinking about jumping ship to WoW... the Bard/Troubador class was a real let down... especially for SOE.. after coming off a game like SW:G where the musicianship was outstanding.. you'd think the bard class be better than this load of crap. Its quite unfair in an MMORPG where a class that mainly depends on groups becomes the most unattractive class in the game.. We have to just stand there and watch the pally's ride by on their noble steeds.. or watch a druid transform into a bear or wolf or something... see some pretty cool look caster's glowing with an aura of power... but what about us?? We get a pop/fizzle and make a person dance.. heck ANYONE can do that.. just type in /dance.. whats the big deal DEVS? Did you actually think we would be satisfied with this? I might jump to WoW.. even though it doesn't have a "Bard" class, the warriors seem to be more fun there.. I hope they fix Bards though.. might come back if they do.</DIV>

[Gr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> PiyoTurQ wrote:<BR> <DIV>We have to just stand there and watch the pally's ride by on their noble steeds.. or watch a druid transform into a bear or wolf or something... see some pretty cool look caster's glowing with an aura of power... but what about us?? <BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Just be glad that the bard ability doesn't cost 60sp and a concentration slot.</DIV>

[At]

<DIV>Well if bards run fast in WoW maybe that would be the better way to go!  Slow running for bards is a bait and switch!</DIV>

[Oghi]

<DIV>I haven't bothered to pick this song up, and cannot imagine littering my spellbook with it.  It was a real failure of imagination on the part of some deadline-rushed dev.</DIV>

[Tannier]

I just feel forced to clarify my position on this, which is an extreme opposite to much of what the original poster stated.The fact is that Paladin/SK mounts give something beyond an entertaining spell effect or visual illusion. They give a tangible and notable effect to the Pally/SK, which is increased runspeed.I play a bard. No one should be outrunning me. But even if we set that, and the colossally obvious absence of Selo's type songs aside, we still have bards given an ability that has ABSOLUTELY no tangible game benefit.Making someone in our group dance does not help us escape bad situations.Making someone in our group dance does not help us cross zones more quickly.Making someone in our group dance does not help us in any way whatsoever.Making someone in our group dance only helps bards to annoy threir group members.This is a brutal slap in the face. "Hey Pallys, here, take something hugely and grossly beneficial which will help you your entire career.""Hey bards, umm... yeah, make people do emotes against their will"This is a flat out outrage!And I vehemently oppose any suggestion that the ability should be changed to effect the whole group, or to use a unique emote, etc...It should be RELACED ENTIRELY with an ability that gives bards (and any other class that has likewise been grossly shortchanged) as much of a tangible benefit as mounts give Pallys and SKs. This is the absolute -minimum- that is acceptable. Period.This whole fiasco shows one of the hundreds points of neglegence of SOE in releasing the game before it is ready in order to make market points against WOW during the holiday season and you may trust me when I say that all of your customers can see through you.Boys, it's time to roll up the sleeves and step up to the plate and do what's right before things get bad. You made a mistake. Impress us all and show us it's the new SOE. Own your mistake and see to getting it fixed.You may be seriously underestimating the draw of WoW where things are crafted for entertainment versus painful grinding and being ignored by a callous developer. WoWW is going to impact your bottom line. If you think not, you are sadly fooling yourselves. The question on the table is how much you decide to let it impact you. Because the ball is in your court. Show us it's not just the start of another 6 year hitch with a dev group that blatently ignores the customers and refuses to address mistakes.The 30 day free period on EQ2 is running out and you have to start showing us that you are worth investing our time, money and playtime to before it's too late and vast numbers decide that the hassle is too much and it's time to load up WoW.It's no longer your own private world where you can sweep your mistakes under the rug of nich success. You have competition. Start acting like it.

[TopBram]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tannier wrote:<BR>To heck with all that, just make it give us Selo's Song of Travel, which is what every bard expected and wanted in the first place when they made the character.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Amen.

[Belisarius]

<DIV>/Agree this is sad.. yet another problem with this class that needs to be addressed</DIV>

[BboySmal]

<DIV>AGRE AGREE AGREE AGREE AGREEEEEE!!!!!!!!! I have just made 20 with my bard and im like woot troubador then im like holy **** this sucks!!!!!!</DIV>

[BboySmal]

<DIV>And you guys are kinda dumb we all get a spell that transforms us to a new race at 40 end of discussion</DIV>

[Ecail]

<DIV>/sign</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes we really need a better "fun" spell at lvl20, right now it's only fun on the first cast :smileysad:</DIV>

[Tannier]

> And you guys are kinda dumb we all get a spell that transforms us to a new race at 40 end of discussionOk, if you can't bother to read the thread, please sit down and shut up. Thanks =DFor those who ride the short bus, here's the short version:Fact 1: Paladins and SKs get a GAME BALANCE EFFECTING SKILL at 20 while others get bupkiss. Fact 2: What does or does not happen at 40 is irrelevent.Fact 3: Making people dance ot turning into a difference race will NOT effect game balance for bardsIt's wrong, it's unfair and it's a load of horse crap!Hopefully that's simple enough that even the special kids can understand.<p>Message Edited by Tannier on <span class=date_text>11-28-2004</span> <span class=time_text>04:17 PM</span>

[SongDi]

<DIV><FONT color=#ccccff>I'd have to agree that we got jipped.  If paladins and SKs can have a horse for a movement buff, there's no reason bards shouldn't also get our traditional class-defining ability of Selo's.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccccff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ccccff>Just my two cents.</FONT></DIV>

[Teknique]

<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#cccccc size=2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#cccccc size=2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#cccccc size=2>Greetings</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#cccccc size=2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#cccccc size=2>I'm not one usually inlcined towards posting my complaints.  Quite honestly, I'm usually just too lazy or too busy playing the wonderful game that SOE has produced us to bother ranting on the forums.  I also don't agree at all with the method in which most people on this post are voicing their own opinions on the matter.  All this talk about WOW and people riding "short busses" leaves a lot to be desired in the maturuity department.  Never the less, this issue is important enough for me to offer my  /sign in hopes of somthing changing.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#cccccc size=2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#cccccc size=2>If our fluff spell never gets any better, meh, I'll live.  But while I do enjoy the class, this ability is more reason to believe the bard class was rushed and just not quite ready for release.  Not only does our 20 fluff spell soley use a public emote already implemented, at least two of the spell animations are merely "placeholders" - graphics used in beta for several spells until their actual graphic was implented (reffering to the blasting yellow ring graphic) </FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#cccccc size=2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#cccccc size=2>I could go on, but I've already strayed far enough from the topic at hand. </FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#cccccc size=2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#cccccc size=2>In closing, you've done a great job SOE.  Beautiful game in most every aspect, and no one could have asked for a smoother launch.  Kudos and pats on the back all around.  Now it's just time to put the finishing touches on few things that may have been pushed aside in the mad dash for a timely and smooth release. </FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#cccccc size=2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#cccccc size=2>The Bards need you SOE..... the Bards need you.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#cccccc size=2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#cccccc size=2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#cccccc size=2>---------------------------------------------------</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#cccccc size=2></FONT></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#cccccc size=2>Teknikk- </FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#cccccc size=2>-Troubadour of Najena</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#cccccc size=2>-Follower of ShadowHaven</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#cccccc size=2>-Gnome.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>

[Tjo]

Our level 20 fluff song is the cheesiest thing I've seen in this game. Some people I group with get a kick out of it when I use it on a Shadowknight on a horse or a troll in full plate armor, but that troll in full plate armor hates it and it pisses him off more than anything. Only cause he is a gaurdian and they get a pretty rediculus effect as well...the smoking hand. The graphics for the smoking hand is turned off when I make him dance, and it takes a long time for his ability to recycle, much longer than ours.But if you think we got the shaft, clerics have a pretty lame fluff ability as well. They make everyone in the group cower as if they were grey to him. But heres the catch, it only works on group members lower level than the cleric. It has no effect on equal or higher level group members.

[At]

<DIV>I don't believe any of the devs are reading the class forums.  If they are they are being tight-lipped about as I don't see any movement on any class issues.  We should probably all be using /feedback on a daily basis in game so we can overwhelm SOE with the reality of the bardic unhappiness.</DIV>

[Xalter]

<DIV>I responce would be nice wouldn't it? So far no Selo's....still praying for it in the expansion...and I'm only 27...*grumbles*.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Can't imagine how happy I'll be at 50...we get the same runspeed booster everyone else gets - too bad it costs almost 10 plat. :smileymad:</DIV>

[__kirby]

<DIV>I completely agree, why not just throw around idea's for other things that might be a good substitute.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Increased runspeed song (already discussed)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Okay now bear with me, I didn't read all the songs I will have in the future, I am only a 20 Troubador...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>New Ability? Perhaps one or two alternate dance styles instead of the (Look at me! I can wiggle!.. Watch me slap my rear!)</DIV> <DIV>I admit this one would prove hard, and completely new animation, maybe a lot more work? But would be worth it to see happen.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Someone (maybe in this same thread) Mentioned something about bards having the image of being big men of legends, perhaps making the song alter their size to appear bigger and tougher than they actually are?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another, perhaps the same, Shrinking the player, allowing him to get into places that others perhaps could not.. Would work very well with a gnome/halfling/ratonga bard. (Stick em in your pocket! jk)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know we had a luring song, I think, that you can make an npc follow you, but once you attack it is gone? What about a provocation song, that charms the creature and compells it to fight for you, for a duration, or fight, whatever?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh oh! Is there a beter stun song maybe? While singing, has a fast recyling to stun the npc creature in awe at your words? (Might sound like more of a Dirge song)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><____insert name___'s> Uplifting Melody.. Group levitation, within a short radius around Troubador?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Again, these are just a few idea's I never really tought TO long and hard about. Feel free to, er, well comment or.. flame for not doing research beforehand.</DIV>

[Jymtarr]

<DIV>Most classes don't get a skill at 20 that enhances your character, and while you may be upset now ina  few months when everyone has their horses that are much, much better than the paladins horse, it will be the Paladin's and SK, who are complaining. Also, the Horse really isn't that muh faster, I can keep up no problem with   my run buff (I'm a swashbuckler)  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Everyone who got an emote as their fluff spell got shafted.... but saying "Oh SOE you messed up so bad, say you're sorry!" c'mon....it's not that big of a deal, let's save the theatrics for the real battles.  There are much more iportant issues, at hand here seriously.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hope it gets changed, but I'm not going to get my panties in a wad about it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Jymtarr on <span class=date_text>12-07-2004</span> <span class=time_text>03:43 PM</span>