Amazing(ly short) Reflexes

[Valer]

<DIV>It was just a matter of time before they found an excuse to lock the old thread.  With 19 pages it was either lock it quickly, or respond.  And I'm sure he was too busy enjoying that TV I got him, to find the time to reply.  But anyways, as the title implies, Amazing Reflexes in its current state is too short.  5 seconds (5.7 with Tenure) is a blip on the screen, and impossible to time with incoming AEs due to how frequent and sporadic the newer EoF AEs are.  I find myself only staying in to land all my debuffs with old KoS mobs, because those AEs are almost negligible.  If AR procs (and is still up) great, if not oh well.  Eof on the other hand, if it procs (and stays up) <STRONG>Thank Rallos!</STRONG>, if not you <EM><STRONG>and</STRONG></EM> your debuffs are down.  If it procced of melee attacks then 5sec wouldn't be such a problem, but due to our small supply of short recast combat arts were left w/ a <EM><STRONG>very</STRONG> </EM>unreliable spell. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I propose that the duration be increased to 10-12 seconds(without Tenure) and the same chance to proc (maybe a little boost if your feeling generous:smileywink: ).  Even though its only double the duration, it would be infinitely more usefully since we would have a wider widow to time AE avoidance, plus it would give our other skills a chance to refresh and proc AR again later.  Instead of avoiding maybe 1 or 2 AEs during the whole raid we could probly avoid around 50-70%(just a raw estimate).  This would give us a chance to actually stay in and land our debuffs and keep them maintained, because I'm pretty sure I speak for everyone when I say that I'm brought to raids for my debuffs, not my uber ranged dps. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Other classes will come in here and say "ad4pt n00bs, joust", but to that i reply jousting isn't rely an acceptable option in EoF.  We have <U>1</U> ranged CA, our damage is also based on steady dps not huge spikes like assassins (which everyone should reroll btw:smileywink: ), also we cant afford to just sit there out of AE range watching our debuff timers tick away, we have to be in there landing and keeping everything up.  Raiding will eventually become run in.....Dispatch-Devitalize-Rake-<U><STRONG>GetTheHellOut</STRONG></U>, afk 1 minute, rinse and repeat.</DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Valeros on <span class=date_text>12-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:48 PM</span>

[Magus_Bl]

<DIV>Maybe our threads wouldn't become "unconstructive" if we had some flipping dev feedback (which afterall, is what the thread was aimed at) somewhere in the 19 pages of the thread.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Amazing reflexes stinks.  It's not useful. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yeah that's not very constructive.  But with all of the constructive posts, suggestions, feedback on this subject that go unanswered, what really is the point of making a constructive post anymore??  Seriously.  Why waste the time and energy if it's just going to get ignored?  What is the motivation for making a constructive post, exactly?  To 'not' get locked?</DIV> <DIV>Pfft.  Puhlease.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Magus_Blue on <span class=date_text>12-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:03 PM</span>

[Mos]

<DIV>Nigh 20 pages and no response, even if it's 'Hey, we looked at it again and there will be no change', is unbelievable.  Can you really blame a community of Brigands for getting a bit unruly at this point?  Congratulations on waiting it out until you could find an excuse to lock the thread.  This will not go away however.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>AR needs to be addressed here and made marginally useful.  Find some middle ground for pete's sake.  There are a ton of ideas tossed out there that are not overpowering at all and 100 times better than it's current useless state.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I agree, at the very least, please look at the timer.  5 seconds is just too short of a span to make use of this skill.</DIV> <P>a_brigand01</P><p>Message Edited by Mos on <span class=date_text>12-21-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:25 PM</span>

[tehh4x]

aye if devs dont want to change the proc style of AR the increase of duration would be the best idea seeing that 5.7 seconds WITH tenure is completely unreliable, AEs calls are 10 seconds most of the time, and yea...10 second call with a 5.7 duration leads to 4.3 seconds of us being open to AEs.  most of our skills are 30 seconds+ to recast also and we have ONE ranged attack with a 30 second recast so its kind of hard to continously proc it so we can go in for a couple seconds of DPS, all we need is 1 response of "we are keeping ar and thats that" or something though, seriously.  <div></div>

[Ether]

Locking the previous thread is in my opinion a low point for developer resiliance.There were many many extremely valuable posts in that thread, despite the final perhaps uncalled for attacks on the powers above.Shame on them both...The reality remains. AR is simply not valuable in its present incarnation. The developers deserve to be criticized here. Its a class defining skill. Either make it valuable or replace it with something that is.

[Samulbrar]

<P>The thread was locked because it degraded into dev bashing, which will always result in a locked thread, regardless of how good it used to be.  If you wish this discussion to continue, then I suggest that you avoid that path at all costs.</P> <P>This is your only warning.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Echozar]

nearly 500 posts complety ignored from devs is not dev bashingits player base bashing.Any reply to the first thread from a dev would be highly apreciatedbut no comment so far. Of course locking threads will justlead to open a new one and the problem will still persist.There are many good solutions for AR in the original Postso please do something...Ekapia LVL70 Brigant Valor

[AratornCalahn]

Its a vicious circle, make poeple angry with a bad dicision, they get upset, then ignored, then abusive, then ignored more openly with a thread lock, then more abusive, then banned, then leave the game meaning less money. In my opinion, fix the bad dicisons <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Make AR useful or give us something diffrent. Dont let that travesty of a spell continue!! <div></div>

[Valer]

<DIV>A duration increase to say...10-12 seconds would be an easy, temporary fix to this whole mess.  It's a win-win situation. Something simple enough that you can slip it into a hotfix, and at the same time appease most of the Brigand community while we wait for a more raid appropriate version of AR.  And at the end of the day doesn't it feel <EM>good </EM>to know that you did what you could to make others happy?:smileyvery-happy:</DIV><p>Message Edited by Valeros on <span class=date_text>12-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:58 AM</span>

[Tholar]

well there were really nice suggestions for a good Amazing Reflexes...tho to the point of changing it with eof:1) why give some more classes aoe immunity which is better than ours? (through aa trees)2) does aoe immunity mean survivability? because i read a letter from a dev who said that AoE immunity is no longer necessary due to the adjustments to the AoEs, but why point 1) then?3) also the point is, the adjustments to the AoEs, that they no longer 1 shot ppl is not fully true.4) the answers from lockeye (in the class forum thread and in the combat discussion thread) are more than dissappointing. several brigands now tested it and the dont come to the same result as lockeye does. i mean if it would be only 3% of the community, i would agree to lockeye, but its more than only 3% who say that AR is worthless and not proccing like lockeye says (once every 4th combat art).suggestions to solve the problem:look in the nearly 20page thread in this class forum, you will find enough suggestions.and last but not least:5) why dont you give brigands in the aa tree some ancient teaching ability from other dps classes? hurricane for example or applying poison... (but pls not something useless) our aa tree isnt bad, i dont deny that, but some things are just plain stupid (more debuffing for agi/wis poisons or more dmg/health from poisons or for example the faster recast of our invis spell...) im 90 aa now and idk what to spend my points into atm... (yes there are a few options left but pretty worthless imo, like the higher proc chance of AR or the more deaggro of elude [dont get aggro atm, even when i double up dispatch + rake and dont use hideaway], but i guess you read that a lot already on the eof beta forums which are no longer available [god knows why...]...)it would be a start if some dev would actually talk to us brigands on the world brigand channel (guk.brigandworld) and discuss it with us....signing out<div></div>

[Zagats]

<DIV>of course I have to add my 2c here...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What I'm saying in all threads about AR is that for this ability to be good at all, it must be 2 things:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1 - controllable.  let ME decide when I want to use the ability.  this adds some skill of play to the ability as well.  if i have to push it to use it, I have to be paying attention and know when the AoE is going to hit in the first place!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2 - reliable.  see #1.  If i can skillfully decide when to push the button to be AoE immune, it will guarantee that my life will be spared.  If I (ME, THE PERSON BEHIND THE KEYBOARD) uses it wrong, I'll have no one to blame but myself.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That's all we want, Lockeye.  Give us some kind of answer, please.</DIV>

[DarkMirrax]

<DIV>just take AR off us and give us another debuff pls</DIV>

[Met]

<DIV>With the Correct group setup and a bit of timing with CA's its possible to have amazing reflexes up as it was before. There is the odd occasional time where it doesnt work, but im pretty confident in saying I have the buff up about 98% of the time now. If it does get made better than it is now then yay, if not ive still found ways of having it work almost as it was, i'd quickly like to add that my way of having perma reflexes again is neither a bug or an exploit. Maybe other Brigands have found this out aswell. For those who havent...there is hope.</DIV>

[DarkMirrax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Metza wrote:<BR> <DIV>With the Correct group setup and a bit of timing with CA's its possible to have amazing reflexes up as it was before. There is the odd occasional time where it doesnt work, but im pretty confident in saying I have the buff up about 98% of the time now. If it does get made better than it is now then yay, if not ive still found ways of having it work almost as it was, i'd quickly like to add that my way of having perma reflexes again is neither a bug or an exploit. Maybe other Brigands have found this out aswell. For those who havent...there is hope.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>highly doubtful , care to share HOW ?

[PowertothePeople]

The only thing that I wish they would understand is that the game mechanic of AR is not FUN. Watching to see if it proc'd or not in a buff bar is not FUN. Starring at the buff boxes is not fun, do something that could let us know its up, like they did with charm when it is about to brake, it changes the color of the screen for a sec. Do something to let us know that the buff is up, seriously who ever decided this as a game developer should revisit it and think about what makes a game fun. Games are suppose to be fun and the the game mechanics should let that happen, this buff AR is not a good game mechanic u dont know when its up and u dont know when it will be up. <div></div>

[Magus_Bl]

<P>Personally all I had really hoped for was something along the lines of:</P> <P> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blackguard wrote:<BR> <BR>And finally, we've made a few changes to Brigands that some of you have already seen and provided feedback on. Before the change to Amazing Reflexes, this art could be used to grant permanent indirect AoE immunity. This had the effect of Brigands not needing to acquire diverse gear for resists and health because nothing touched them as long as they did not acquire aggro. This wasn't a matter of player skill so much as it was relying on a single extremely powerful ability.<BR><BR>As of LU20, Amazing Reflexes will break for a short duration if the Brigand takes damage, so you'll need to be careful about your targets and aggro management in order to avoid indirect AoEs. You can still avoid many indirect AoEs if you are skillful in doing so, but Amazing Reflexes is no longer a get-out-of-jail-free card.<BR><BR>Keep in mind that the way these changes function when they all make it to Live may be different than described here, and could even be adjusted further thereafter. However, I thought it would be a good idea to discuss what we're doing and why so you know we aren't just "nerfing" things for the fun of it. There's always a reason, and we think this will make the game more fun for everyone, especially in the long term. As always, your feedback is welcome, so feel free to provide it in a constructive manner here. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>You know...  back in the good ole days when we had a Community Relations Manager that came and calmed everyone down with the 'voice of reason'.  To let this go on for so long, unanswered, unaddressed, is imho [Removed for Content] poor.  Sorry if that's considered dev bashing.  It's not meant to be.  It's intended to be communication of my increasing disappointment with community relations.  </P> <P>The community here has made it clear that they are unhappy with the change, and that communication has perpetuated long after this change has gone live... so it's not like you're getting a knee-jerk reaction to the nerf bat.  </P> <P>As stated previously by many here, having this ability as a 5s proc is completely useless.  It might as well say in the description : "You have a random chance to not die".  Gee thanks.  </P>

[Met]

Take a look at other classes buffs and AA's and see what you can come up with. It works and is vey possible. I dont agree with the devs and what they did to AR but sadly I doubt it will change to like they stated were going to have to adapt. If you dont want to spend the time researching into other options take up the idea the Brigand community guy suggested and get some resists lol, I'd say about 12k to be safe <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Magus_Bl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Metza wrote:<BR> <DIV>With the Correct group setup and a bit of timing with CA's its possible to have amazing reflexes up as it was before. There is the odd occasional time where it doesnt work, but im pretty confident in saying I have the buff up about 98% of the time now. If it does get made better than it is now then yay, if not ive still found ways of having it work almost as it was, i'd quickly like to add that my way of having perma reflexes again is neither a bug or an exploit. Maybe other Brigands have found this out aswell. For those who havent...there is hope.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>What do you have?  Two bards jestering you or something?</P> <P>I'm sure whatever it is, not everyone will have the luxury of this group setup.</P>

[duuf]

Metza wrote:With the Correct group setup and a bit of timing with CA's its possible to have amazing reflexes up as it was before. There is the odd occasional time where it doesnt work, but im pretty confident in saying <b>I have the buff up about 98% of the time now. </b>If it does get made better than it is now then yay, if not ive still found ways of having it work almost as it was, i'd quickly like to add that my way of having perma reflexes again is neither a bug or an exploit. Maybe other Brigands have found this out aswell. For those who havent...there is hope._____________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________/boggle/jaundiced eye/crapola detectorCrapola Detector reports at 100%/sighDuufus lvl70 BrigDuufuss lvl 70 PallyDuffus lvl 70LEET HAX! (Title conferred by the greatest of all Furies Gutwrench)Everfrost<div></div>

[FuzzBall]

<div></div>Another perfect example of my previous point, Lockeye really doesnt like suggestions or criticism, least from the playerbasehow long until we get a "This thread has hit a nerve and will now be closed" ???[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] you moderators, WE WILL BE HEARD<div></div><p>Message Edited by FuzzBall on <span class=date_text>12-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:40 AM</span>

[Magus_Bl]

<P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE>Super.  IBTL.</BLOCKQUOTE><p>Message Edited by Magus_Blue on <span class=date_text>12-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:44 AM</span>

[Sete Soujiro]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> rtwitty wrote:<BR>Metza wrote:<BR>With the Correct group setup and a bit of timing with CA's its possible to have amazing reflexes up as it was before. There is the odd occasional time where it doesnt work, but im pretty confident in saying <B>I have the buff up about 98% of the time now. </B>If it does get made better than it is now then yay, if not ive still found ways of having it work almost as it was, i'd quickly like to add that my way of having perma reflexes again is neither a bug or an exploit. Maybe other Brigands have found this out aswell. For those who havent...there is hope.<BR><BR>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____________________<BR><BR>/boggle<BR>/jaundiced eye<BR>/crapola detector<BR>Crapola Detector reports at 100%<BR>/sigh<BR><BR>Duufus lvl70 Brig<BR>Duufuss lvl 70 Pally<BR>Duffus lvl 70<BR>LEET HAX! (Title conferred by the greatest of all Furies Gutwrench)<BR>Everfrost<BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>Your aa's combined with another classes aa's and your looking at about a 63% chance to proc ar is what he is saying.<BR></P>

[Zagats]

<DIV>do I really have to repeat myself?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>as long as it's a proc, its unreliable.</DIV> <DIV>give ME the choice to decide when to use the ability, not a random % chance, no matter how large the %.</DIV> <DIV>(unless its 100%, which would put it back to the way it was).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>adding other class' buffs etc is not really a viable option for many of us, though we have tried this, and it failed</DIV> <DIV>miserably.  We're lucky to have a second bard in the raid ever.  The first one ALWAYS goes to main tank</DIV> <DIV>group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Other than that, I think you're BSing us, Metza.  I'd like proof.  If every other brigand here hasnt figured it out yet,</DIV> <DIV>how about helping your fellow brigands out?</DIV> <DIV>You wont because you cant...because its BS.</DIV>

[Met]

<DIV>I know of other Brigands who use the same group setup and same strat i use. I have no need to give you proof as it works for me and im not trying to prove anything, You said im full of BS so why should i tell you the way i get things to work. Being fed up with the nerf to AR i decided to find ways around it (without the use of bugs / exploits) because the Devs obviously dont wanna hear what we have to say. Just because i wont tell you how to get AR to work better doesnt mean im full of [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If i was a casual player i would share the info but as im in raiding guild i dont wanna help the competition <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><p>Message Edited by Metza on <span class=date_text>12-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:37 PM</span>

[Harvash]

<P>Well, I knew it wouldnt take long for them to lock the previous discussion.  However, over 450 posts were made - good, bad and ugly - shouldnt this prompt at least a wee bit of investigation on behalf of the dev's?</P> <P>The point here is simple - a proc on AE resistance is simply not usefull.  Taking our skill away because "we dont need it anymore" and giving it to others is condictory at best - if not needed, then why is it availiable to others /shrug.</P> <P>I can tell you what has saved me -Safefall.  Last night, in Lyceum, the named with the big flying knockback AE failed to kill me - not because of AR (which I never usefully proc'd in any fashion) but because when the AE hit (taking me to about 10% health) I Fell Softly after hitting the wall IN THE NEXT ROOM.</P> <P>So, this being said - leave AR as it is and make sure the next round nerf's Safefall to a proc to avoid damage /sarcasm off</P> <P>We need to be able to enable AR manually to make it usefull. Period. Full Stop.  </P>

[Met]

<DIV>Yeah i do agree it needs to be a manually activated effect or the proc needs to last 10+ seconds. The method i use works but like someone pointed out a few posts back we cant all have the group setup we want and have to make do with what we are given, luckily i get enough of the required classes. If we ever get a response or some sort of feedback about AR i'll be dispatching the Devs along with the rest of you lol</DIV>

[Zygwen]

<blockquote><hr>Metza wrote:<div></div> <div>I know of other Brigands who use the same group setup and same strat i use. I have no need to give you proof as it works for me and im not trying to prove anything, You said im full of BS so why should i tell you the way i get things to work. Being fed up with the nerf to AR i decided to find ways around it (without the use of bugs / exploits) because the Devs obviously dont wanna hear what we have to say. Just because i wont tell you how to get AR to work better doesnt mean im full of [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].</div> <div> </div> <div>If i was a casual player i would share the info but as im in raiding guild i dont wanna help the competition <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><p>Message Edited by Metza on <span class="date_text">12-22-2006</span> <span class="time_text">04:37 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Heh, I told them how to do it but they won't believe me.<div></div>

[duuf]

<div>Metz wrote:I know of other Brigands who use the same group setup and same strat i use. I have no need to give you proof as it works for me and im not trying to prove anything, You said im full of BS so why should i tell you the way i get things to work. Being fed up with the nerf to AR i decided to find ways around it (without the use of bugs / exploits) because the Devs obviously dont wanna hear what we have to say. Just because i wont tell you how to get AR to work better doesnt mean im full of [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].</div> <div> </div> <div>If i was a casual player i would share the info but as im in raiding guild i dont wanna help the competition <img src="../../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif" border="0" height="16" width="16">-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------/sigh/Leet DetectorLeet Detector unable to verify requested Leetness requested subject may be full of crapola please apply crapola detector/Crapola DetectorCrapola Detector ERROR ERROR Crapola at critical levelsCritical Error Please turn detector off before Crapola overload/sighDuufus lvl 70 brigDuufuss lvl 70 pallyDuffus lvl 70 wizLEET HAX! (Title Conferred by that Greatest of all Furies Gutwrench)</div><div></div>

[DarkMirrax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Metza wrote:<BR> <DIV>I know of other Brigands who use the same group setup and same strat i use. I have no need to give you proof as it works for me and im not trying to prove anything, You said im full of BS so why should i tell you the way i get things to work. Being fed up with the nerf to AR i decided to find ways around it (without the use of bugs / exploits) because the Devs obviously dont wanna hear what we have to say. Just because i wont tell you how to get AR to work better doesnt mean im full of [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If i was a casual player i would share the info but as im in raiding guild i dont wanna help the competition <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Metza on <SPAN class=date_text>12-22-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:37 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>help the competition ? this is the BRIGAND commuinty ffs rillix if you dont want to help then dont bother posting at all </P> <P>typical sort of crap you get from a fable members (the self accaimed best euro raiding guild) /sighs</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[DarkMirrax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zygwen wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Metza wrote:<BR> <DIV>I know of other Brigands who use the same group setup and same strat i use. I have no need to give you proof as it works for me and im not trying to prove anything, You said im full of BS so why should i tell you the way i get things to work. Being fed up with the nerf to AR i decided to find ways around it (without the use of bugs / exploits) because the Devs obviously dont wanna hear what we have to say. Just because i wont tell you how to get AR to work better doesnt mean im full of [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If i was a casual player i would share the info but as im in raiding guild i dont wanna help the competition <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Metza on <SPAN class=date_text>12-22-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:37 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Heh, I told them how to do it but they won't believe me.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>yup its got to be true right as 1 brigand SAYS he can ? every other one cant ?</P> <P>/sarcasm off</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Ether]

I'll agree with Darkmirrax on this one. If you come here merely to boast about your raiding guild, please go put the tourniquet back on and get back to your addiction. You are embarrasing yourself and your guild.On the topic of getting AR to proc more, the 0.5 casting time of most arts is attached to the proccing chance. So the chance should be higher if you use arts with longer cast times.

[mikemcmodmi]

<P>What he's saying is if a brigand is grouped with a templar and dirge you can almost maintain AR.  Templars and dirges get group buffs that increase the proc % chance of groupmates.  With the combination of both classes a brigand can proc so often that he can maintain AR.</P> <P>When I raid I raid with just a dirge in my group, not a templar.  Even if you can get a group with a templar and dirge, that would be sort of [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].  Why setup a group just so the brigand can maintain AR?  That makes no sense to me.  You'd need 2 templars and a funky group setup to make that work.</P>

[Zagats]

<DIV>LOL how am I your competition?  We're on completely different servers!</DIV> <DIV>Even to those other brigands on the same server as you, you should think of them as your </DIV> <DIV>allies, your comrades, your G's ... whatever you wanna call them.  I know the brigands on Blackburrow are pretty friendly towards each other despite being in different guilds.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's not like you're giving out l33t stratz on how to kill Wuoshi.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You're right that you dont *have* to prove yourself, but until I see some kind of proof about it, I'm going to say you're full of BS.  Many of us have tried different group setups.  It isnt working for us.</DIV> <DIV>And the day my guild gives me a group set up that's based solely on how well I can proc AR is the day I run for President.  It just isnt going to happen.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Still, the matter at hand is that, even if you can keep it up 90% of the time, or even 98%, that's not a guarantee that you'll survive an AoE.  </DIV> <DIV>Other classes get a guaranteed AoE avoidance.  For BALANCE purposes, I say we should have one as well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh, and Zygwen isnt a brigand...he has 0 experience with this ability whatsoever, yet keeps talking like he's been using it for weeks.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Zagats on <span class=date_text>12-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:00 AM</span>

[Mr_Gone76]

<P>AR is more or less useless now. When my guild is raiding a mob that you have to joust, I have to joust with them. My raid leaders don't want to take the chance on AR being up or not, becasue my buffs are too important to lose. The only time it has been usefull is when we are fighting a mob that we have to eat the aoe. Sometimes I get luckly. To me the combat art sould be renamed to "OK reflexes".</P> <P>This was a class defining ability and should be exactly how it was before. It should be up at all times, and you are not hit unless you were targeted when the aoe went off and you lose AR for 30 sec when you take direct damage.</P> <P>There was nothing wrong with how it was and needs to be changed back.</P>

[Valer]

Mr_Gone76 I agree with you 100%.   The only thing "overpowering" about the old Amazing Reflexes, was that it had a 100% chance to proc class envy.  In fact in my old guild (not The Horde which im affliated w/ now) i had an assassin during raid saying "its not [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing fair he gets to stay in the whole time and be the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing star of the raid".  Thats what blew my mind, that much envy from even a guildy.  And to be honest thats all this change really amounts to, 14 months of nerfs cries, becuase were paying less for repair bills, and we were getting the "spotlight". <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Valeros on <span class=date_text>12-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:57 PM</span>

[Jida]

<div><blockquote><hr>rtwitty wrote:<div>Metz wrote:I know of other Brigands who use the same group setup and same strat i use. I have no need to give you proof as it works for me and im not trying to prove anything, You said im full of BS so why should i tell you the way i get things to work. Being fed up with the nerf to AR i decided to find ways around it (without the use of bugs / exploits) because the Devs obviously dont wanna hear what we have to say. Just because i wont tell you how to get AR to work better doesnt mean im full of [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].</div> <div> </div> <div>If i was a casual player i would share the info but as im in raiding guild i dont wanna help the competition <img src="../../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif" border="0" height="16" width="16">-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------/sigh/Leet DetectorLeet Detector unable to verify requested Leetness requested subject may be full of crapola please apply crapola detector/Crapola DetectorCrapola Detector ERROR ERROR Crapola at critical levelsCritical Error Please turn detector off before Crapola overload/sighDuufus lvl 70 brigDuufuss lvl 70 pallyDuffus lvl 70 wizLEET HAX! (Title Conferred by that Greatest of all Furies Gutwrench)</div><div></div><hr></blockquote><span class="highlight">Luck</span> of the <span class="highlight">Dirge</span> and the Mystic AA for Ancestry Theres your answer.Get 2 it.</div>

[AratornCalahn]

Brigands arnt worth breaking up other group setups just to allow better AR chance. I certianly dont have spare classes to give to a "Help the Brigand Play Properly" fund. I just joust. I also hope that its not BECAUSE other classes can buff you that its not being better balanced... <div></div>

[Jida]

<div><blockquote><hr>AratornCalahn wrote:Brigands arnt worth breaking up other group setups just to allow better AR chance. I certianly dont have spare classes to give to a "Help the Brigand Play Properly" fund. I just joust. I also hope that its not BECAUSE other classes can buff you that its not being better balanced... <div></div><hr></blockquote>I think that may be part of the reason. Before if you had tenure the proc duration could be 9ish seconds.</div>

[Magus_Bl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jida wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> AratornCalahn wrote:<BR>Brigands arnt worth breaking up other group setups just to allow better AR chance.<BR><BR>I certianly dont have spare classes to give to a "Help the Brigand Play Properly" fund. I just joust. <BR><BR>I also hope that its not BECAUSE other classes can buff you that its not being better balanced...<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I think that may be part of the reason. <BR><BR>Before if you had tenure the proc duration could be 9ish seconds.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Before someone jumps on this, just want to clarify he's talking about beta.  Where we had 7 sec duration and 20% tenure = 8.4 sec duration on AR.  So that almost makes sense that they'd drop it to 5 seconds.  Someone probably yelled and said oh now the guilds with 4 brigands will stick a dirge and mystic in that group and they'll have perma AR, so better decrease the duration.</P> <P>Of course, none of that would be an issue if it wasn't <STRONG>TURNED INTO A STUPID PROC TO BEGIN WITH</STRONG>.</P>

[PowertothePeople]

Yep, AR still sucks.<div></div>

[Jida]

<div><blockquote><hr>Magus_Blue wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Jida wrote: <div> <blockquote> <hr> AratornCalahn wrote:Brigands arnt worth breaking up other group setups just to allow better AR chance.I certianly dont have spare classes to give to a "Help the Brigand Play Properly" fund. I just joust. I also hope that its not BECAUSE other classes can buff you that its not being better balanced... <div></div> <hr> </blockquote>I think that may be part of the reason. Before if you had tenure the proc duration could be 9ish seconds.</div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>Before someone jumps on this, just want to clarify he's talking about beta.  Where we had 7 sec duration and 20% tenure = 8.4 sec duration on AR.  So that almost makes sense that they'd drop it to 5 seconds.  Someone probably yelled and said oh now the guilds with 4 brigands will stick a dirge and mystic in that group and they'll have perma AR, so better decrease the duration.</p> <p>Of course, none of that would be an issue if it wasn't <strong>TURNED INTO A STUPID PROC TO BEGIN WITH</strong>.</p><hr></blockquote>Thanks 4 the save. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Met]

<DIV>Lol gotta love the flames against me because i posted here saying in certain group setups AR can work a whole lot better. I didnt post here to brag about my guild and how l33t my skillz are (12 year old internet lingo is the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] lol). I just stopped by to say there are few solutions as the devs obviously arent gunna change a thing anytime soon. Do some [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing research into other classes and there AA's / buffs and stop waiting to be spoon fed the info by someone else ffs. Someone already stated above somewhere about the Dirge / Templar buffs so theres a start.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just a few corrections that need making to the above flaming lol</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I dont need to fuel any addictions</DIV> <DIV>Im not embarrasing my guild or myself</DIV> <DIV>Just because i stated there are ways to maintain AR im not suggested you make a selfish group lol</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That is all, happy raiding</DIV><p>Message Edited by Metza on <span class=date_text>12-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:00 AM</span>

[Magus_Bl]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Metza wrote:<BR> <DIV>Lol gotta love the flames against me ...</DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Yeah there's no reason for flames here.  Though I doubt some of us will get to see the group setup you're talking about, if it works out that you wind up in a group like that, it would be good to know what to look for.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There are 3 ways to improve the skill.  Increase duration (for which I'm pretty sure all we have is Tenure, and that doesn't do much), decrease recast on CA's (more ca's = more proc chance, but only short term buff available here), and increase proc % chance.  So find who gives proc % chance increase and you can always hope to land in that group or nudge the raid leader to switch you out with the monk (or whatever) that's in there. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> </DIV>

[Zagats]

<DIV>Responses telling me to get a group setup that will never happen simply to give AR a better chance to proc is a great reason for flames.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would never even ask the guild leader to set up a raid with me in a group with those 2 other classes, because he understands the game and understands where those classes would best be suited for the raid.  As a result of good raid group making decisions, I'll never be in a group with a bard and a mystic at the same time.</DIV> <DIV>If that's what Sony is thinking will make the ability useful, then they're sadly mistaken.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Any chance to proc = unreliable.</DIV> <DIV>AR being unreliable = useless.</DIV>

[ag]

<blockquote><hr>Zagats wrote:Responses telling me to get a group setup that will never happen simply to give AR a better chance to proc is a great reason for flames.I would never even ask the guild leader to set up a raid with me in a group with those 2 other classes, because he understands the game and understands where those classes would best be suited for the raid.  As a result of good raid group making decisions, I'll never be in a group with a bard and a mystic at the same time.If that's what Sony is thinking will make the ability useful, then they're sadly mistaken.Any chance to proc = unreliable.AR being unreliable = useless.<hr></blockquote>QFE, FTW, QFE!If <b>we</b> <u>must</u> be in a particular group setup to get <b>OUR</b> ancient teaching or achievement to work "at all", then I hope this is a design goal for <b>all</b> classes, and everyone can look forward to the joy that we have experienced in the <strike>nerf</strike> change to Amazing Reflexes.

[Magus_Bl]

They need to combine the new Lore & Legend quest changes with nerfed abilities... so that, for example, upon completion of <STRONG>Lore & Legend: Amazing Reflexes</STRONG> we get a trophy of a burglar/brigand looking dude being hit in the face with a bat.  And maybe a "Brigand Master Strike" to go with that... <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[MilkToa]

<P>Lol, this [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] cracks me up. This reminds me of the people that used to post in the warlock forum that warlocks didn't have an aggro problem, they just needed to be in a group with troubador deaggro and a paladin's amends (oh, and throw in a coercer deaggro for good luck).</P> <P>Sure you can create an ideal group to make AR work better but why would anyone completely [Removed for Content] their raid setup for that?</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[MoeSizlak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MilkToast wrote:<BR> <P>Lol, this [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] cracks me up. This reminds me of the people that used to post in the warlock forum that warlocks didn't have an aggro problem, they just needed to be in a group with troubador deaggro and a paladin's amends (oh, and throw in a coercer deaggro for good luck).</P> <P>Sure you can create an ideal group to make AR work better but why would anyone completely [Removed for Content] their raid setup for that?</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Unfortunately this is the way it works.  50 people say it isn't working, but because 1 person says it's fine the overwhelming majority opinion is ignored because clearly the 1 person who says it is working ok is speaking up for all the others who aren't, and the 50 people who say it's broken are the only ones who think it is.</P> <P>Personally I would still like an explanation on how EXACTLY it takes skill to make the RNG hit on a specific number within a given range in a small, specified time range, cuz at last check that's not skill, that's what they call luck.</P>

[duuf]

Jida wrote:<span class="highlight">Luck</span> of the <span class="highlight">Dirge</span> and the Mystic AA for Ancestry Theres your answer.Get 2 it._______________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________Hmm lets see First i have to get a dirge in my group probability low say 5%Second the dirge has to have gone down the proper AA line maybe 50% chanceThird I have to get a mystic in my group probabilty low say 5%Fourth the mystic has to have aa Ancestry maybe 50% chanceFifth I have to get the Raid Leader to agree to the group setup .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0001%So 5% x 50% x 5% x 50% x .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% = FAT CHANCE/Sigh/Crapola Meter onCrapola Meter reports Crapola at near record levels approaching the uselessness of AR/Crapola Meter off/SighDuufus lvl 70 BrigDuufuss lvl 70 PallyDuffus lvl 70 WizLEET HAX! (TItle conferred by that greatest of furys Gutwrench)Everfrost<div></div>

[Jida]

<div><blockquote><hr>rtwitty wrote:Jida wrote:<span class="highlight">Luck</span> of the <span class="highlight">Dirge</span> and the Mystic AA for Ancestry Theres your answer.Get 2 it._______________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________Hmm lets see First i have to get a dirge in my group probability low say 5%Second the dirge has to have gone down the proper AA line maybe 50% chanceThird I have to get a mystic in my group probabilty low say 5%Fourth the mystic has to have aa Ancestry maybe 50% chanceFifth I have to get the Raid Leader to agree to the group setup .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0001%<div></div><hr></blockquote>I agree that the proc shouldn't be dependant on group setup.. but i wanted to open your eyes to group buffs that you may not know about =).Don't get mad at me if you dont have these classes available to you with the proper aa's selected. IF you get these classes and with the proper aa's in your group.. you can see alot more reliablity in your ar proc %. I have the master version of AR and prob will go max % chance so i can get 1/3 chance to proc it. Then i'll change weapons to a 1 hander due to the dps % will be more auto attack than before. due to conserving of combat arts to keep AR up.</div>

[mikemcmodmi]

<P>When I raid atm I'm usually grouped with a dirge.  I'd say I avoid max 60% of aoes with the dirge proc buff.  I have no points into AR atm.</P> <P>One more thing that can help, use a sword and use the torporous strike AA CA.  It's a ca that does little damage and it's arguable whether the debuff does anything at all, but it's still a CA giving AR a chance to proc.</P>

[Goonch]

<P>I did a crap ton of testing last night and Templars proc buff off of weapons is definitely <U><STRONG>NOT</STRONG></U> increasing the chances of AR.  Then again it should not be the way its worded.  So as far as I can tell its the Mystic and Dirge combo for increased proc rate.  Most mystics will have the ancestral line however dirges may not necessarily be going the way of Luck of the Dirge, not that it matters since I won't get grouped with either because of their importance in other groups and our limited supply of them.  </P> <P>Then again I haven't even had the chance to test those 2 out either when I do I will post my results.</P>

[SKULL]

<DIV> <DIV> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff>I reposted an old response to this issue with AR as a reminder to everyone that we should not settle for anything less than what we had prior to EOF.  Why in the hell do we have to depend on grp/raid make up to have a mere shadow of what we had prior to EOF? Do any of the other classes or Ancient Spells require specific grp/raid set ups to be functional? The fact that we are the only class that is affected in this way warrants an evaluation of the situation concerning AR.  The change is biased and unfair to our community plain and simple. </FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>Partigas</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>70 Brigand of Vagabonds</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>UNREST</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><B><U><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></U></B> </P> <P><B><U><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></U></B></P> <P><B><U><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff>PLEASE DON’T SETTLE FOR ANYTHING LESS THAN THE PRE EOF VERSION OF AR!!!</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></U></B></P> <P><B><U><SPAN><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3></FONT></SPAN></SPAN></U></B> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff>The game developers and designers knew ahead of time that this one change alone was going to cause a lot of hate and discontent in our community. They have refered to the combat changes as tweaks and adjustments and those of us that have seen previous combat changes and expansions this is the furthest thing from the truth and poor PR on the part of SOE Management. They have no intentions of doing damage control but are dug in and weathering out the sh#t storm this has caused. Almost every post on this subject shows that some of the brigand community would be willing to settle for the beta version of AR. Mates this is the oldest psychological ploy in the book. They changed it from a 28% 10 sec duration proc on beta to a 28% 5 sec duration proc on live which has most of the community in such turmoil some us are willing to settle with almost any version they give us. In other words, SOE takes away an ability that was questionable in the first place during beta testing and gives us an ability that without a doubt is useless, we cave out of desperation because we don’t want what we currently have and SOE gets what they want at the expense of its unhappy but paying customers. </FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff>Unlike some of the retired brigands and those who I suspect have a dev/beta tester realationship, that have addressed this post and many others, I have been raiding the new content since expansion went live and prior to expansion during beta almost every day and I am here to tell you…this is a unfair and biased change in the way a high end raiding brigand has to fight. Almost everyone of our debuff CA’s and attacks are only executable at a 5m range hence the reason we were given AR in the first place. This fact was is well known and promulgated by the devs. We have to get in close to the mobs to be effective and support the raid. We no longer have the ability to do that reliably with the current game mechanics and functionality of AR. Even with resists at 10k or better (which some of mine are right now depending on what encounter we are in) it’s a crap shoot on how long or if I will survive in the AOE. <B><U>NO OTHER CLASS WITH AOE IMMUNITY HAS TO RELY ON A PROC PEOPLE!!!! </U></B><SPAN> </SPAN>That’s not fair to us as a community and needs to be changed. On some of the encounters this requires us to joust, although I feel really dirty and cheap afterward, I am ok with that…not happy about…but I will take allot of showers and deal with it. But on other encounters there is no way to get close to the mob to get debuffs on, provide dps to the raid and survive even with resists over 10k. And none of the encounters I am eluding to are final end game mobs with the new expansion so I freaking hate to see what that’s going to be like. </FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff>SOE is making changes to game content everyday and not posting what these changes are in the daily notes. I can understand that I suppose considering the massive amount of fixes they are making each day. Although the concept and design are impressive as usual SOE has dropped the ball with mechanics and execution of yet another expansion at the expense of its vested players and new players that just don’t understand the impact of these changes.</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff>Bottom line folks….BE CAREFUL OF WHAT YOU ASK FOR BECAUSE YOU JUST MAY GET IT!!!!! Don’t settle for something less that what we need to execute our mission during a high end raid encounter. Right now with the current version or any version that utilizes a proc for this ability is unfair and unreliable and needs to be changed. With current CA limitations we deserve to get AR restored to its previous functionality prior to EOF launch. Anything less than that and the Brigand community is footing the bill for poor game mechanic design and execution. </FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"><FONT color=#ffffff><STRONG><EM><U>Leadership 101 SOE: Never take away from your people what you have already given them. It only pisses them off and makes you look weak and unable or unwilling to stand up for them.</U></EM></STRONG></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><STRONG><EM><U><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3></FONT></U></EM></STRONG></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>Partigas</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>70 Brigand of Vagabonds</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>UNREST</FONT></SPAN></P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffff00>For those who might be a nervous when seeing the words “combat” and “changes,” used in the same sentence, we’d like to assure you that that this is nothing of the scale of what occurred last year where some systems were replaced wholesale and class abilities changed significantly. </FONT></SPAN><SPAN><FONT color=#ffff00>Gallentine 9-28-06</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffff00>Since then we have had a lot of opportunity to review your feedback and to test the effects of these changes on both current and new Echoes of Faydwer content.  In response, we have made a number of additional tweaks and additions. Dymus 11-15-06</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffff00>“Please Don’t blow smoke up my but you will ruin my autopsy". Anthony Hopkins Meet Joe Black</FONT></SPAN></P> <P>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________</SPAN></P></FONT></DIV></DIV><p>Message Edited by SKULLRK on <span class=date_text>12-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:22 AM</span>

[Zagats]

<DIV>While I would like to have it back in its original form, it really is overpowered.</DIV> <DIV>We'll NEVER see it back at 100% again as a result of that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just want a dependable, reliable ability again.</DIV>

[SKULL]

<DIV> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>Nice...its exactly that attitude that will not change our current situation. </FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>Partigas</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>70 Brigand of Vagabonds</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>UNREST</FONT></SPAN></P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffff00>For those who might be a nervous when seeing the words “combat” and “changes,” used in the same sentence, we’d like to assure you that that this is nothing of the scale of what occurred last year where some systems were replaced wholesale and class abilities changed significantly. </FONT></SPAN><SPAN><FONT color=#ffff00>Gallentine 9-28-06</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffff00>Since then we have had a lot of opportunity to review your feedback and to test the effects of these changes on both current and new Echoes of Faydwer content.  In response, we have made a number of additional tweaks and additions. Dymus 11-15-06</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffff00>“Please Don’t blow smoke up my but you will ruin my autopsy". Anthony Hopkins Meet Joe Black</FONT></SPAN></P></FONT></SPAN></DIV>

[Zagats]

<DIV>Do you honestly believe that they'd ever give it back to us the way it was?  I dont.  I've been playing EQ and EQ2 too long to be that naive.  No amount of complaints will ever give it back to us the way it was.</DIV> <DIV>However, I do believe that suggestions on ways to make it more reliable do help our cause and that one day it'll be a reliable ability again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Until then, I'll keep complaining.</DIV>

[SKULL]

<DIV>Everything I have stated up to this point is facts....not complaints. And yes I do believe that if enough people stand their ground things can and will change. Our country is based on that very principal. There will soon be a mass exodus from this game.....maybe permanent...maybe temporary. I will follow my guild and do what is best for us. However, with the never ending nerfs, so called tweaks to combat changes, and non-existent communication from management with reference to this issue is giving some of us no choice but to leave. Every combat change that has occurred since the inception of this game has been at the expense of the player because of poor combat design and lack of foresight as to what their changes were going to accomplish later on down the road. There have been numerous suggestions for the improvement of the current state of AR and there has been no feedback from management on weather these proposed changes are being entertained at their level. I would venture to say that they are not and that they have achieved their goals with the current version of AR. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I for one am tired of paying for SOE mistakes...literally!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>Partigas</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>70 Brigand of Vagabonds</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>UNREST</FONT></SPAN></P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffff00>For those who might be a nervous when seeing the words “combat” and “changes,” used in the same sentence, we’d like to assure you that that this is nothing of the scale of what occurred last year where some systems were replaced wholesale and class abilities changed significantly. </FONT></SPAN><SPAN><FONT color=#ffff00>Gallentine 9-28-06</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffff00>Since then we have had a lot of opportunity to review your feedback and to test the effects of these changes on both current and new Echoes of Faydwer content.  In response, we have made a number of additional tweaks and additions. Dymus 11-15-06</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffff00>“Please Don’t blow smoke up my but you will ruin my autopsy". Anthony Hopkins Meet Joe Black</FONT></SPAN></P></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <P>Message Edited by SKULLRK on <SPAN class=date_text>12-27-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:26 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by SKULLRK on <span class=date_text>12-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:27 PM</span>

[SorynD]

know what would be nice is if they just moved our FD aa in the int line to the very 1st aa you get & do away with pickpocket....../shrug <div></div>

[Zagats]

<DIV>Trust me, I would LOVE to have it back the way it was.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You said : And yes I do believe that if enough people stand their ground things can and will change. Our country is based on that very principal.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes, our country is based on majority rulings.  However, Sony is not.  They really dont give a ratonga's [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] what we think from what I've seen on these forums.  They're going to make it how they want to make it, and there's nothing we can do except quit playing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, I think if we offer them good alternatives, MAYBE we have a shot at getting it changed.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We could sign petitions till our fingers fall off, but they wouldnt change AR back to 100% because of all the whining they heard previously about it being "broken" and "too uber", and people like assassins having AR envy.</DIV>

[duuf]

Another amazingly successful Amazing Reflexes storyRaid leader says "aoe incoming 5 seconds"Brig says "oh crap does that include traumatic swipe"ca like the dickens!Brig "whew theres the AR proc"No AOEBrig " dam there goes the proc"ca like the dickens!Brig "come on proc"<div></div>Brig "oh SOE promised reduced AOE damage"Brig "come on proc"BAM Healer says "rez incoming to the stupid brig"Brig "no power gotta save it for my main job debuffs"Brig "no power for ca, joust or believe SOE about AOE damage"Raid Leader says "if the stupid brig dies again leave him" Brig "jousts like the dickens"Post combat discussion;Raid Leader says "u sux in that encounter, u r hurting the raid"Brig says " i  kno will u give me a mystic and a dirge in my group that both have the aa that causes my procs to increase so maybe my Amazing Reflexes works so I can stay in on the mob and get almost respectable dps as well as being able to keep my debuffs on the mob"Raid Leader says  "Huh"Brig says " All the Leet guilds build their raid setup around the brig and his need to keep AR up.Raid Leader says "Huh"Brig says " Don't believe me read the Brig forurms"Raid Leader says "joust or ur kiked from the raid"Brig says "kk"Brig removes amazing reflexes from his hot bar so he wont be tempted anymoreDuufus lvl 70 BrigDuufuss lvl 70 PallyDuffus lvl 70 WizLEET HAX! (Title conferred by the greatest of furys Gutwrench)Everfrost

[DarkMirrax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> rtwitty wrote:<BR>Another amazingly successful Amazing Reflexes story<BR><BR><BR>Raid leader says "aoe incoming 5 seconds"<BR>Brig says "oh crap does that include traumatic swipe"<BR>ca like the dickens!<BR>Brig "whew theres the AR proc"<BR>No AOE<BR>Brig " dam there goes the proc"<BR>ca like the dickens!<BR>Brig "come on proc"<BR> Brig "oh SOE promised reduced AOE damage"<BR>Brig "come on proc"<BR>BAM <BR>Healer says "rez incoming to the stupid brig"<BR>Brig "no power gotta save it for my main job debuffs"<BR>Brig "no power for ca, joust or believe SOE about AOE damage"<BR>Raid Leader says "if the stupid brig dies again leave him"<BR>Brig "jousts like the dickens"<BR><BR>Post combat discussion;<BR>Raid Leader says "u sux in that encounter, u r hurting the raid"<BR>Brig says " i  kno will u give me a mystic and a dirge in my group that both have the aa that causes my procs to increase so maybe my Amazing Reflexes works so I can stay in on the mob and get almost respectable dps as well as being able to keep my debuffs on the mob"<BR>Raid Leader says  "Huh"<BR>Brig says " All the Leet guilds build their raid setup around the brig and his need to keep AR up.<BR>Raid Leader says "Huh"<BR>Brig says " Don't believe me read the Brig forurms"<BR>Raid Leader says "joust or ur kiked from the raid"<BR>Brig says "kk"<BR>Brig removes amazing reflexes from his hot bar so he wont be tempted anymore<BR><BR>Duufus lvl 70 Brig<BR>Duufuss lvl 70 Pally<BR>Duffus lvl 70 Wiz<BR>LEET HAX! (Title conferred by the greatest of furys Gutwrench)<BR>Everfrost<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>lol even liked the leet speak <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P><BR> </P>

[Zagats]

<DIV>Guard Regis : So, Shadowterror, you're here on "Who Wants to be a Plat-ionnaire", and you've made it up to 20p.  This next question is for 40p!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For Brigands, Amazing Reflexes, post- EoF is:</DIV> <DIV>A - useful</DIV> <DIV>B - useless</DIV> <DIV>C - great for raiding brigands</DIV> <DIV>D - the most amazing awesome ability everyone has ever used. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Remember, Shadowterror you still have all your lifelines, to include "ask the guild", "/tell a friend", and "50/50".</DIV> <DIV>Me : Hrmm... this is a really tough one, Regis.  As a raiding brigand, I'm thinking useless, but...</DIV> <DIV>I'm going to use a lifeline - I'll use the "50/50".</DIV> <DIV>Guard Regis: OK, lets narrow the choices down to 2!  So, we have B and C left on the boards.<BR>Me: Still not sure, Regis, lemme /tell a friend.</DIV> <DIV>Guard Regis: Which friend are you going to /tell ?</DIV> <DIV>Me: I think I'll send a tell to DarkMirrax, he seems to know a bit about being a brigand.</DIV> <DIV>Guard Regis: Ok we have DarkMirrax on the /tell.  Hi, Dark, this is Guard Regis from "Who Wants to Be a Plat-ionnaire".  We have Shadowterror playing the game.  You have 30 seconds...go.</DIV> <DIV>Me: Ok, the question is: For Brigands, Amazing Reflexes, post-EoF is: B, useless, or C, great for raiding brigands?</DIV> <DIV>DarkMirrax : B.  Definitely.  Hands down.  I'm 100% sure.</DIV> <DIV>Me: Ok thanks, Dark.</DIV> <DIV>Guard Regis: Dark says B.  Is that what you're going to go with?</DIV> <DIV>Me: Hrmm.. still not sure, I'm going to have to "Ask the Guild".</DIV> <DIV>Guard Regis: Ok, guild... enter your response.  Ok, 98% say Useless, and 2% say great for raiding brigand.</DIV> <DIV>Me: I'm going to just go with my instinct, and pick B, useless.</DIV> <DIV>Guard Regis : Final answer?</DIV> <DIV>Me: Final answer.</DIV> <DIV>Guard Regis: You got it RIGHT! for 40p!</DIV>

[DarkMirrax]

<DIV>[Removed for Content] you guys have to much free time on your hands <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> get busy raiding already will ya .. oh wait AR blows <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Zagats]

<DIV>Free time? What you talkin about..I'm at work!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[DarkMirrax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zagats wrote:<BR> <DIV>Free time? What you talkin about..I'm at work!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>yea same here <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> hehe dont get off topic though cos the MoD's in Blue will come a locking otherwise ! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>sooooo lockeye our chum/pal/friend/dude/mate any progress in thinking about your response yet ? :smileywink:</P>

[DarkMirrax]

<P>oh and btw celador have taken companies to court and won for people stealing "Who wants to be a Millionaire",  If you really must borrow someones idea, think very carefully, saying <B>it's a parody</B> doesn’t stop it being a <B>breach of copyright</B>. Using a VO to sell an item is completely different from Jon Culshaw doing Tom Baker in <I><B>Deadringers</B></I> a comedy show, that is a parody of Dr Who. You are using an impression of Tom Baker to sell an item, Tom Baker may not want to endorse that item, he also could have voiced it, so he can sue for loss of earnings and defamation of character if he is against that product. </P> <P>just a little clarification to those who are reading we are doing this in jest or a "parody" In contemporary usage, a <B>parody</B> is a work that imitates another work in order to ridicule, ironically comment on, or poke some affectionate fun at the work itself, the subject of the work, the author or fictional voice of the parody, or another subject. As literary theorist Linda Hutcheon (2000: 7) puts it, "parody...is imitation with a critical difference, not always at the expense of the parodied text." Another critic, Simon Dentith (2000: 9), defines parody as "any cultural practice which provides a relatively polemical allusive imitation of another cultural production or practice."</P> <P>and yes im bored :smileywink:</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[duuf]

Definitely not using my /tell a  friend on DarkMirrax. No way.  30 seconds is not enuff time.Duufus lvl 70 BrigDuufuss lvl 70 PallyDuffus lvl 70 WizLEET HAX! (Title conferred by the greatest of all furys Gutwrench)Everfrost<div></div>

[Zagats]

<DIV>if they cant figure out it was a parody, then they need to be shot.  I never used the words "Millionaire", "Phone a friend" or  "Ask the audience" ... and 50/50 is a ratio.</DIV> <DIV>And Guard Regis was a Qeynosian guard in Qeynos Hills in EQ1 (and there was also a Guard Philbin!) so I'm just using game characters' names.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I dont think I broke any copyright laws by doing that parody.  Names were changed just for that reason.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>AR still is useless.  That's the topic.  I read a statement from one of the devs somewhere that said basically, if they dont respond, it means they're looking into it, which I think is crap.  Tell us you're looking into it!</DIV>

[DarkMirrax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> rtwitty wrote:<BR>Definitely not using my /tell a  friend on DarkMirrax. <BR>No way.  <BR>30 seconds is not enuff time.<BR><BR>Duufus lvl 70 Brig<BR>Duufuss lvl 70 Pally<BR>Duffus lvl 70 Wiz<BR>LEET HAX! (Title conferred by the greatest of all furys Gutwrench)<BR>Everfrost<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>bah id use my tell on /tell lockeye but then you only got 30 seconds to respond ..</P> <P>/ps mods please dont lock we are having a jest as theres not much else for us to be cheerful for <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  well other than a good new years drinking session (hope you mods even get the night off so we can rant obscentitys all night and be banned in the morning well all the hungover devs get online lol)</P> <P> </P>

[duuf]

Actually had AR up on the first AOE from Harla Dar this weekend.  Great sense of accomplishmentTotally trounced by the rest of the encounter when it didnt proc once.My brig spent half the fight eating dirt.ITS BROKEN SOE.  Unproc it please or give us something worth using.Duufus, lvl 70 BrigDuufuss, lvl 70 PallyDuffus, lvl 70 WizLEET HAX! (Title conferred by the greatest of furys Gutwrench)Everfrost<div></div>

[Seiden]

<div></div>sadly, all these nerfs coming in made me bored of the game. I'm off to vanguard. You can lock this thread too!**removed by myself because I don't want to hurt the dev's feelings**<div></div><p>Message Edited by Seiden on <span class=date_text>01-03-2007</span> <span class=time_text>02:41 AM</span>

[Kegofbud]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> agra wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zagats wrote:Responses telling me to get a group setup that will never happen simply to give AR a better chance to proc is a great reason for flames.<BR>I would never even ask the guild leader to set up a raid with me in a group with those 2 other classes, because he understands the game and understands where those classes would best be suited for the raid.  As a result of good raid group making decisions, I'll never be in a group with a bard and a mystic at the same time.<BR>If that's what Sony is thinking will make the ability useful, then they're sadly mistaken.<BR><BR>Any chance to proc = unreliable.<BR>AR being unreliable = useless. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>QFE, FTW, QFE!<BR><BR>If <B>we</B> <U>must</U> be in a particular group setup to get <B>OUR</B> ancient teaching or achievement to work "at all", then I hope this is a design goal for <B>all</B> classes, and everyone can look forward to the joy that we have experienced in the <STRIKE>nerf</STRIKE> change to Amazing Reflexes.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Exactly. There surely are formations that help. The issue is that we shouldn't ahve to have a specific group setup ONLY to help us proc AR more. That means the skill is not properly designed. I'm tired of arguing about it. I can't even read the forums regularly anymore because I'm tired of reading the same issues that are still ignored. The community isn't handled with any care anymore, just censored. I don't even know why I keep paying for it.<BR>

[duuf]

Did the AOAx4 Ice Dragon Wed Night it didnt proc once during aoes,  Survived NONEITS BROKEN SOE Unproc it or give us something usefulDuufus, lvl 70 BrigDuufuss, lvl 70 PallyDuffus, lvl 70 WizLEET HAX! (Title conferred by the greatest of furys Gutwrench)Everfrost<div></div>

[Rahatmattata]

Yup... still sucks.

[DarkMirrax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cannibas wrote:<BR> Yup... still sucks.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>it protected me against a venym AE on sat night Woooot ! (an AE that would normally hit for about 20 % health though so whats the point ?)</P> <P> </P>

[ag]

<blockquote><hr>Goonch wrote:<b>I encourage more people to post anything they are doing.</b>  Our forums have been so apocalyptic lsinc eeof beta and its getting old.  If it hasn't been changed by now it's probably not changing.  I think most of you deep down know that.  If anything I'd like them to change it back to 7 seconds in stead of 5 and allowing those other combat arts to proc AR.</blockquote>14 MONTHS Amazing Reflexes was in EQ2 for Brigands. <b>FOURTEEN MONTHS</b> it was fine, and all of a sudden, it's not fine? Pardon me while I laugh myself silly at the illogic of that. In those 13.9 months before it was nerfed, no developer said "Oh, wait, this isn't right, we can't have Brigands doing that, take that away." Riiiiight.*ahem*Ok, I'll post what I'm doing.Beta testing Vanguard. You know why? Because at the moment, the developer that changed Amazing Reflexes into a worthless (IMHO) ability isn't developing for Vanguard, as far as I know. (Please Brell, don't make me into a liar.. /cringe /shudder /notw )Given that, I hope that the Vanguard Rogue will be fun until such time as said developer is put on the Vanguard team, at which point I'll have to reassess my options.Even if Vanguard is (insert negative evaluation here) , I know it'll be several months of fun while I learn new geography, new creatures, and new gameplay mechanics. For the moment, for me, the current state of the Brigand in EQ2 is not making me log in every day. For me, the Brigand class was more fun in the past than it is now. I try to maintain a pretty constant theme that games should be fun, but for whatever reason, all I see is a constant eroding, over time, of what little fun there is left in this game. Is that overly dramatic and possibly inaccurate? Yes, possibly, but what can I say, I'm just a Gnome. The only perspective I truly understand is my own. Everyone elses... I'm just guessing.Maybe when the overarching design goal for EQ2 is Fun again, (it was, you know, at one point, even publicly) the changes to the game will reflect that. At the moment, from my narrow perspective, punitive is the only long term design goal I can see, and maybe Vanguard won't be like that, for a little while. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> It sure is refreshing for the moment!Oh, and no, Frostfell doesn't count. (for all of you thinking that)

[Damari]

<DIV>Some other handy hints if you haven't thought about it already.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im using T6 master cures cause theyre cheap and lvl 83. </DIV> <DIV>We have a power regen poison so change your racial traits to HP improvements rather than power (every bit helps)</DIV> <DIV>Work on HP equipment rather than big stats, group buffs give you the stats you need to break the sweet spot of diminishing returns.</DIV> <DIV>HP adornments.</DIV> <DIV>Pop a ward potion to suck some of that initial AoE damage</DIV> <DIV>I took the AoE range reduction before tenure, less jousting distance = quicker i can be back in there</DIV> <DIV>Joust and heal like everyone else. HP is your friend now</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Im running at about 7-8k resist gear and its more than enough to keep me alive long enough for a cure and/or heal.  Just dont be at the mobs feet  when it AoE's.  AR proc is a bonus now, nothing more.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edited after reading Agra's previous post.</DIV> <DIV>Will catchya in VG gnome boy.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Damari on <span class=date_text>01-09-2007</span> <span class=time_text>08:05 PM</span>

[Goonch]

<P>Agra I have always had mad respect for you and the work you have poured into crunching numbers and shared them with all of us.  I appreciate and agee with almost everything you say.  </P> <P>I agree 14 months it was fine and all of sudden its not.... I completely agree and empathize... it sucks.  but im not quitting and this is how im dealing.   I'm not saying 'hey I think its cool' or 'hey its working relaibly' or 'hey i like this change'.  im just throwing out what im doing to get it to work when i can.  and i honestly think if it were a short term buff it would be just as useless.</P> <P>If you decide to go to VG gl, and I (and prob the rest of us brigs) cant thank you enough for all your number crunching youve done for us to peruse.  I beta'd vg and  its definitely not the game for me.  i totally respect and understand your decision.</P><p>Message Edited by Goonch on <span class=date_text>01-10-2007</span> <span class=time_text>12:36 AM</span>

[Crimson Dragon]

stay frosty gnome dude.<div></div>

[Turb]

I've taken a similar view to Damari. As a swash who betrayed post AR nerf, I never had AR to know what I'm missing.I've specced myself for survivability, to try to retain t2 dps while having the best shot to keep debuffs up. I have two fabled dual-wields on STR-STA, giving 9% more HP and a few hundred more physical mit.I use vitality breach rather than caustic poison (or mental breach, in general)I took the two +HP character traitsI took the Hardened resist AAI took the +10% AR proc AA 'enhancement'I prefer resist gear over statsI specced for Traumatic Swipe to try to minimise incoming AoEs (I'm surprised how many rogues don't)AR is far from reliable, but it's keeping me at 100% health a few times when I might otherwise be in trouble, saving healers some effort on me which can go to the MT or wherever else it might help. To me, AR is a bonus for survivability. I guess as more brigs reach 70 less of the overall brig playerbase will ever know what they're missing.Having said all that I've not done the new EoF raids, just labs, lyceum, HoS, DT, etc... =)

[Valer]

<div></div>I couldn't agree more with Agra, 14 months it was <b>"working as intended"</b> and now the sudden change.  SoE needs to stop making these unneeded and drastic changes.  <u>THAT</u> is whats sucking the fun out of this game, I just dont understand why they always feel the need to "tweak" everything to hell and back, instead of leaving what works alone.  There was nothing broken with the old AR, <u>there was nothing overpowering about the old AR</u>.  It was one class dodging AE's out of necessity due to the way our class and debuffs were designed.  The raiding brigands (for whom the skill was intended) have been completely shafted.  We deserve nothing short of the old Amazing Reflexes.  We can talk for months about figuring out a new version instead, but we all know what we consider "useful" and "reliable" is completely different that what they'll give us.  Don't settle for anything short of the skill that was <b><u>working as intended for 14 months.</u></b> <div></div>

[Zagats]

<P>Turbo, the point you're missing is that you wouldnt die from those KoS AoE's anyway.  And for saving the healers trouble, they're doing GROUP heals, or should be.  No extra trouble at all.</P> <P>Even IF AR happens to save you in these areas, it didnt matter to begin with.</P>

[AlbinoLou]

What are you guys talking about!?!?  The other day I dodged Pardas Predd's AE!  I mean sure, no one in the raid died to the AE and no one bothered to joust and everyone was at full health before it could go off again but let me tell you, it was AMAZING!  And really, with all the communication that's been going back and forth between the devs and the Brig community, is it any wonder that we are getting this ability in such a great form?  It's just nice to see so much feedback on an issue of obvious concern to the player base.   Customer service like that is why EQ2 is the leader in the MMORPG community. And from a personal standpoint I was rather amazed at how they quickly and profoundly re-adjusted the rest of our abilities that had been inaddequate or nerfed due to us having the original soooooooooooooooo powerful-they-couldn't-remove-it-for-14-months-for-fear-that-it-would-leap-out-of-the-computer-and-eat-their-toes-off Amazing Reflexes.  Go Sony!<div></div>

[SorynD]

<div></div>Heres the bottom line nuff said. AR was fine the way it was, but they changed it so be it,even in the EoF zones i'm having np. where the beef really is....is before EoF we really were the only class that has this sort of aviod after EoF they took it away < & lets not beat around the bush AR as a proc is no AR at all> saying we didn't need it, but then they up & gave MUCH better versions to a lot of other class's...at this point all i would like is AR to NOT be a proc & made to one of two things 1. Just put it back the way it was or 2. give us some thing like the assassins got < ya like they needed more help with dps> HELL just  change AR to what our aa FD is that would be great...............but alas i don't hold out a lot of hope, from what i understand from talking to Dymus & some of the other Dev even they asked to just change it back but "Lockeye the Judas" is dug in & will NOT admit his misstake & change it in anyway /sigh <div></div><p>Message Edited by SorynD on <span class=date_text>01-10-2007</span> <span class=time_text>12:33 PM</span>

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>rtwitty wrote:Did the AOAx4 Ice Dragon Wed Night it didnt proc once during aoes,  Survived NONEITS BROKEN SOE Unproc it or give us something usefulDuufus, lvl 70 BrigDuufuss, lvl 70 PallyDuffus, lvl 70 WizLEET HAX! (Title conferred by the greatest of furys Gutwrench)Everfrost<div></div><hr></blockquote>Maybe you shouldn't stand in front of the big dragon so it doesn't breath on you? Because if you're getting killed by Gorenaire, you really should just quit. You should take no AEs on that mob at all, unless you're dumb enough to stand in front of her, in which case you deserve to die.

[duuf]

<div></div><div></div>PInski wrote:Maybe you shouldn't stand in front of the big dragon so it doesn't breath on you? Because if you're getting killed by Gorenaire, you really should just quit. You should take no AEs on that mob at all, unless you're dumb enough to stand in front of her, in which case you deserve to die.______________________________________________ __________________________________________________ Lets see:Class is  a brig, hmm from what position should my brig attack the target, oh yes i need to be by the tank at the head with my many many frontal attacksWhat an idiotic statement.Maybe you should talk to the 11 other scouts mages and healers that went down with me with us standing between the back legs.We still got up and took the dragon out.  Stay on topic please and refrain from "dumb" advice as well as your trollish asinine suggestions.Duufus, lvl 70 BrigDuufuss, lvl 70 PallyDuffus, lvl 70 WizLEET HAX! (Title conferred by the greatest of furys Gutwrench)Everfrost<div></div><p>Message Edited by rtwitty on <span class="date_text">01-10-2007</span> <span class="time_text">02:13 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by rtwitty on <span class=date_text>01-10-2007</span> <span class=time_text>02:23 PM</span>

[Valer]

<div></div>Being a male myself I know all to well how stubborn we can get, and become so stuck in our ways that we try to ignore everyone else even though we know were in the wrong.  This has gone on long enough, listen to everyone posting here and please change AR back to its formal useful state.  Theres just no way you can justify giving us a 5 second proc with the way our debuffs and close range CA's are setup.  Whats even more shocking is that it was originally 7 seconds, but you felt it needed to be shorter?!  If your so intent on keeping AR as is, at least explain why.  As <b><u>paying customers</u></b> and brigands who devoted a lot of their time and energy to raiding, we got the rug pulled right from under us after <b><u>14 months of perfectly fine use.</u></b>   I'm sorry, but you really have alot to learn keeping customers if you think you can just come in and make sweeping changes like this, then lock yourself in a room without so much a response.   And no  "well it  works fine for me"  is not a valid response.   If it seems like im [Removed for Content] off, well thats because I am, and I'm sure a lot of other brigands are.  At this point its <i><b>beyond</b></i> annoying.  Man up, take responsibility for your mistake and fix this, Brigands as a whole shouldn't have to suffer for your inability to admit a mistake.At this point my only hope is that someone in a higher position reads this and other AR threads, and finally takes action to get this important ability fixed.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Valeros on <span class=date_text>01-10-2007</span> <span class=time_text>03:25 PM</span>

[Crimson Dragon]

<div></div><div></div><div><blockquote><hr>AlbinoLou wrote:And from a personal standpoint I was rather amazed at how they quickly and profoundly re-adjusted the rest of our abilities that had been inaddequate or nerfed due to us having the original soooooooooooooooo powerful-they-couldn't-remove-it-for-14-months-for-fear-that-it-would-leap-out-of-the-computer-and-eat-their-toes-off Amazing Reflexes.  Go Sony!<div></div><hr></blockquote>i think this point goes a little un-noticed. remember when flashy throw and restrain had their damage reduced?our only ranged attack loses damage... and then we lose the ability to stay at melee range all the time. doesn't add up to me.ok... so there's another series of questions that have been bugging me for a while. it kind of comes back to a lot of people's points, but it all starts with aoe timing.(disclaimer: i've nothing against aoe timing. i don't think it's an exploit or bad practice. from my experience, it's become necessary to success on raid encounters. it's a clever and inventive way that players have developed of help themselves to succeed in raid situations. that out of the way, however....)jousting is not something that is preached down from the devs about encounters. they never tell us "don't stand in range when the attack hits"... they always say "up your resists, mitigation, and HP to increase survivability". obviously, when they create encounters, they expect people to eat the aoes with such rhetoric. this idea of favoring withstanding aoes is supported by their attempts to get around parsing that can time aoes (the shredder in freethinkers, for example, though he does have some text just before the aoe). so if the intent is for players to be able to withstand an aoe and to not worry about timing them, and if the ability to dodge an aoe is no longer needed in the system where aoes should not one-shot well-geared players, why do we have the ability to avoid an aoe at all, proc or not, with any class? why has this ability been extended to new classes when the concept is that it should no longer be needed? is it just the desire to have a new "trick" mechanic? i do not understand - if the reasoning of "aoes no longer one-shotting players" is to stand - how it is possible to allow us access to a mechanic that effectively nullifies aoes (thus rendering the endurance of aoes pointless and the question of whether or not they would one-shot players moot) but to change it to something that is no longer reliable. if the intent was to do away with the necessity to be "immune" to aoes, then should the skill itself not have been completely removed or replaced with a relevant mechanic?if timing and jousting aoes is not an originally intended method of defeating raid encounters, then why has it become so necessary to the success of a raid force in the game? if it is not necessary or intrinsic, then why has the aoe immunity mechanic been left at all, even in a diminished form? if it is necessary and intended, and aoe immunity is thus also a significant skill used to counteract this necessity, then why is it that the skill for us has been changed so drastically that it is now unreliable - and thus largely useless, given that aoes are powerful and need to be avoided?(edited some of my intro statements for clarity.)</div><p>Message Edited by Crimson Dragon on <span class=date_text>01-10-2007</span> <span class=time_text>07:59 PM</span>

[Duster_68]

Well, coming into the last update with an open mind, I'm at the point where I'm just not having fun any longer.  I've tried to adapt.  I spent 20 p on resist gear to stay in the raiding game and that was not enough.  I still come up short for most of the resists needed to survive EoF.  I think back on all the raid level resist gear I passed on over the months and what it will take to get me so that I am up to par to survive EoF content and to me that sounds like work, not fun.  I pulled the plug today and cancelled.  Good luck fellow brigands and I hope at some point SoE eventually un[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]s the class.<div></div>

[Zagats]

duster, its not just our class, but rather RESISTS arent working well to stop AoE damage.  I was buffed to over 10k cold and heat doing Clockwork.  I never resisted any hits, and the hits werent hitting for much less than what they would have if I had only 5k resists.  So screw resist gear, I'm wearing my normal gear, and if I die, I die.

[daboa]

First off i guarentee the devs have read most, if not all of the posts.  its reliable if you like to burn mana heh, or if you use your lvl 10 styles to proc it(gogo lvl 10 DPS on vyemm) i agree just make it 15sec and i will be happy. nothing complex extend the duration and you make lots of happy people(they will still complain as always, but atleast it will be fixed).

[SKULL]

<DIV>DOH...double post!</DIV><p>Message Edited by SKULLRK on <span class=date_text>01-11-2007</span> <span class=time_text>10:40 AM</span>

[SKULL]

<DIV>Quoted from another post: The old AR was too powerful it needed to be changed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Any Brigand on any server that believes this needs to sell their gear, delete their toon and go play another game or stop posting on this string and shut it. I am so tired of reading this statement becuase its the furthest thing from the truth.  I have seen the end game content and IMHO there is no encounter that having AR up 100% of the time would make any difference in any encounter. There are a couple of encounters that require us to range because AR is usless in its current state and no matter what my resists are at (several between 11-12k) the aoe's associated with that encounter ignore your resists and will one shot you reguardless of what the devs are saying. I can run through KOS raid zones and stand behind every endgame mob and survive every encounter. I can't do that in any of the EOF zones. They are all T7 so why should one area be different from the other? Can you say unbalanced? I can't speak for the other servers but there have been changes to the encounters game wide because we have guilds that are beating encounters that had no chance of winning several weeks ago. The constant shifts in game mechanics, class nerfs, [Removed for Content] poor planning on the execution of these changes, changing game content on live when it should of been addressed and fixed on test, and lack of communication reguarding these changes is taking the fun out of this game at least for me. Cya in Vanguard.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>P.S. If you were worried about guilds stacking their raids with 6-8 brigands for an encounter then you should of addressed that with the guilds involved and handled it for what it was....an exploit...not change a whole freaking class becuase of what one or two guilds were doing with one enounter. Better yet why not put a cap on how many brigands you could have invited to a raid...not sure if that can be coded but that makes more sense than nerfing a class and calling it a tweek. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>Partigas</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>70 Brigand of Vagabonds</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>UNREST</FONT></SPAN></P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffff00>For those who might be a nervous when seeing the words “combat” and “changes,” used in the same sentence, we’d like to assure you that that this is nothing of the scale of what occurred last year where some systems were replaced wholesale and class abilities changed significantly. </FONT></SPAN><SPAN><FONT color=#ffff00>Gallentine 9-28-06</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffff00>Since then we have had a lot of opportunity to review your feedback and to test the effects of these changes on both current and new Echoes of Faydwer content.  In response, we have made a number of additional tweaks and additions. Dymus 11-15-06</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffff00>“Please Don’t blow smoke up my but you will ruin my autopsy". Anthony Hopkins Meet Joe Black</FONT></SPAN></P></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV>                 </DIV><p>Message Edited by SKULLRK on <span class=date_text>01-11-2007</span> <span class=time_text>10:40 AM</span>

[duuf]

Did the Firedragon in AOAx4 last night.  Can my brig stay in and do his debuffs and traumatic swipe.  Nope every dang time 2 extra blobs.  Forced to joust and use my 1 pathetic ranged attack.ITS BROKE SOE fix it or give us something useful.Duufus lvl 70 BrigDuufuss lvl 70 PallyDuffus lvl 70 WizLEET HAX! (Title conferred by the greatest of furys Gutwrench)Everfrost<div></div>

[Zagats]

<DIV>We've never really been able to not joust Talendor.  All my experiences show that, while AR protects from the AOE and doesnt spawn adds on you, when there are adds (from tank getting hit), they seem to go directly for you, and you die.</DIV>

[duuf]

Zagats wrote:We've never really been able to not joust Talendor.  All my experiences show that, while AR protects from the AOE and doesnt spawn adds on you, when there are adds (from tank getting hit), they seem to go directly for you, and you die.<div></div>__________________________________________________ _______________________________________________Tha t represents a possible strategy because pre nerf my brig would have been able to either pull them to the off tank or tank them till the off tank could get them.  We had tremendous problems pulling them off our guard tank with a beserker off tank.   Having had to tank  them in our wipe recoveries they are anything but insta kill when there are only 2.Duufus lvl 70 BrigDuufuss lvl 70 PallyDuffus lvl 70 WizLEET HAX! (Title conferred by the greatest of all furys Gutwrench)Everfrost

[DarkMirrax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zagats wrote:<BR> <DIV>We've never really been able to not joust Talendor.  All my experiences show that, while AR protects from the AOE and doesnt spawn adds on you, when there are adds (from tank getting hit), they seem to go directly for you, and you die.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>hmmm never ever had that problem but its probably because you were next to the tank on the hate list so you must have been pushing some nice dps on him i guess , always spawns on our necro always and hes always topping the parse so it would seem to corelate fine

[DarkMirrax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Goonch wrote:<BR> <P>Nope.  Rarely a mystic and sometimes a dirge if I'm lucky.  I'd say 33% of the time... maybe.  The good thing about Jester's Cap is that it can be cast out of group.  I know troubs are rare as heck.  Also if you are with a warden make sure they buff you to pierce your crush, slash, pierce too.  I was in group in EH with another brig and we had the same exact group.  The warden had him buffed and not me.  He was doing significantly more dps than I was and when I looked at the logs it was because I was missing a lot more than he was and the only difference was that buff.</P> <P>That is one thing I do like about the combat changes is that the  + slash, + pierce + crush actually mean something now where as  before imo they really didnt mean jack.</P> <P>I encourage more people to post anything they are doing.  Our forums have been so apocalyptic lsinc eeof beta and its getting old.  If it hasn't been changed by now it's probably not changing.  I think most of you deep down know that.  If anything I'd like them to change it back to 7 seconds in stead of 5 and allowing those other combat arts to proc AR.  </P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Its all well and good getting a dirge thats the easy bit but a mystic and or troub ? forget it plus you have to have a dirge that actually took the luck or have him respec to it ?</P> <P>my group setup (always group4)</P> <P>Zerker</P> <P>Dirge</P> <P>Brig</P> <P>Brusier</P> <P>Brig/Pred</P> <P>Inquistior</P>

[Goonch]

<DIV>Troubs can cap out of group. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Goonch]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SKULLRK wrote:<BR> <DIV>Quoted from another post: The old AR was too powerful it needed to be changed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Any Brigand on any server that believes this needs to sell their gear, delete their toon and go play another game or stop posting on this string and shut it. .... Cya in Vanguard.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Well I better go sell all my stuff then.  </P> <P>I stayed in on cheldrak the whole time wedensday.  Only got hit by stomp like 5 times which put me in the yellow each time.  Never died.  Had the troub cap me out of group every 2 mins.  No dirge or mystic in my group.  Torpor never hit me once, must have been luck!  Probably would have been higher but I ran over to help on a thief once  and was rolling with mental breaches.</P> <P>Allies: (07:33) 5175627 | 11425.23 [Magless-Manaburn-32431]<BR>Pantz 530314 | 1170.67<BR>Reone 511972 | 1130.18<BR>Cast 472595 | 1043.26<BR>Izura 455658 | 1005.87<BR>Willee 371679 | 820.48<BR>Flirt 365175 | 806.13<BR>Magless 310413 | 685.24<BR>Mateo 275234 | 607.58<BR>Reak 258608 | 570.88<BR>Brendan 238820 | 527.20<BR>Dagoneth 226000 | 498.90<BR>Innsane 225497 | 497.79<BR>Clarrissa 204212 | 450.80<BR>Fayaden 184282 | 406.80<BR>Concerto 102894 | 227.14<BR>Dominar 101810 | 224.75<BR>Nazty 91864 | 202.79<BR>Xiria 84337 | 186.17<BR>Gash 83969 | 185.36<BR>Schim 44251 | 97.68<BR>Pogi 30459 | 67.24<BR>Windle 5584 | 12.33<BR></P> <P>You want to talk about eq2s game mechanics and you are going to the timesink that is VG... now thats funny.  Give Sete your stuff.</P><p>Message Edited by Goonch on <span class=date_text>01-12-2007</span> <span class=time_text>10:33 AM</span>

[DarkMirrax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Goonch wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SKULLRK wrote:<BR> <DIV>Quoted from another post: The old AR was too powerful it needed to be changed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Any Brigand on any server that believes this needs to sell their gear, delete their toon and go play another game or stop posting on this string and shut it. .... Cya in Vanguard.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Well I better go sell all my stuff then.  </P> <P>I stayed in on cheldrak the whole time wedensday.  Only got hit by stomp like 5 times which put me in the yellow.  Never died.  Had the troub cap me out of group every 2 mins.  No dirge or mystic in my group.  Torpor never hit me once, must have been luck!  Probably would have been higher but I ran over to help on a thief once  and was rolling with mental breaches.</P> <P>Allies: (07:33) 5175627 | 11425.23 [Magless-Manaburn-32431]<BR>Pantz 530314 | 1170.67<BR>Reone 511972 | 1130.18<BR>Cast 472595 | 1043.26<BR>Izura 455658 | 1005.87<BR>Willee 371679 | 820.48<BR>Flirt 365175 | 806.13<BR>Magless 310413 | 685.24<BR>Mateo 275234 | 607.58<BR>Reak 258608 | 570.88<BR>Brendan 238820 | 527.20<BR>Dagoneth 226000 | 498.90<BR>Innsane 225497 | 497.79<BR>Clarrissa 204212 | 450.80<BR>Fayaden 184282 | 406.80<BR>Concerto 102894 | 227.14<BR>Dominar 101810 | 224.75<BR>Nazty 91864 | 202.79<BR>Xiria 84337 | 186.17<BR>Gash 83969 | 185.36<BR>Schim 44251 | 97.68<BR>Pogi 30459 | 67.24<BR><FONT color=#ffff00>Windle 5584 | 12.33</FONT><BR></P> <P>You want to talk about eq2s game mechanics and you are going to the timesink that is VG... now thats funny.  Give Sete your stuff.</P> <P>Message Edited by Goonch on <SPAN class=date_text>01-12-2007</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:26 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>windle slacker !!! templar no doubt ?</P> <P> </P>

[Goonch]

warden, lols.

[DarkMirrax]

<DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Goonch wrote:<BR> <DIV>Troubs can cap out of group. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>hmmm i wouldnt mind experimenting around with it but tbh i cant be bothered with it anymore ill just keep jousting instead its REALIABLE <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> tried to stay on shredder for a few times .... that lasted until the 4th death then i just called the jousts instead lol</P></DIV>

[Zagats]

<DIV>Dark, are you guys fighting Shredder in one place?</DIV> <DIV>We kite him.</DIV> <DIV>When you pull him, pull him near the door.  Everyone other than the tank moves up to the platform he was standing on.  Start ranged dps.</DIV> <DIV>Have someone calling "MOVE" as soon as he drops the vase, and move him to the other side of the room.  Then all close range dps moves in and helps fight it.  </DIV> <DIV>Keep someone calling "MOVE" for when he drops that vase, and you should rarely ever get hit by that aoe. </DIV> <DIV>Be sure to have poison cures handy for when someone does get hit though.  Just keep moving him back and forth, and you'll win easily over this chump.</DIV> <DIV>I dont think he has any brigand useable drops, sadly.</DIV>

[DarkMirrax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zagats wrote:<BR> <DIV>Dark, are you guys fighting Shredder in one place?</DIV> <DIV>We kite him.</DIV> <DIV>When you pull him, pull him near the door.  Everyone other than the tank moves up to the platform he was standing on.  Start ranged dps.</DIV> <DIV>Have someone calling "MOVE" as soon as he drops the vase, and move him to the other side of the room.  Then all close range dps moves in and helps fight it.  </DIV> <DIV>Keep someone calling "MOVE" for when he drops that vase, and you should rarely ever get hit by that aoe. </DIV> <DIV>Be sure to have poison cures handy for when someone does get hit though.  Just keep moving him back and forth, and you'll win easily over this chump.</DIV> <DIV>I dont think he has any brigand useable drops, sadly.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>ypu we pull him off the pedestal to the left hand corner of the room (from the door) so hes at range keeping his [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] to the raid party and we just simply call the joust when he says </P> <P>oops i droped it </P> <P>and</P> <P>take a deep breath </P> <P>and when he summons someone with the "come here" its always the person on the bottom of the hate list so we use a brusier to hit him a few and then just sit back get summoned and FD <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> works a treat lol <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>as for the cure it wont help this thing hits for 6 k initial and then ticks for 2k per so your dead really fast and yep he does drop scout drops btw a nice chain helm and wrist jewellery <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> not enough dkp for me bleh but yea in response we joust him alright i was just trying to see if i could get AR to proc when i knew it was inc when he emotes alas no lol</P> <P>the guy who fingers you is the best made me laugh my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] off when he first did it , though hes easy as hell once you ping pong his [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[DarkMirrax]

<P>oh and btw is it just me or do resists really mean fek all now ?</P> <P>10 k disease resist and i still get owned for 11 k in 3 seconds</P>

[SKULL]

<DIV> <P>Goonch wrote: </P> <P>Well I better go sell all my stuff then.  </P> <P>I stayed in on cheldrak the whole time wedensday.  Only got hit by stomp like 5 times which put me in the yellow.  Never died.  Had the troub cap me out of group every 2 mins.  No dirge or mystic in my group.  Torpor never hit me once, must have been luck!  Probably would have been higher but I ran over to help on a thief once  and was rolling with mental breaches.</P> <P>Allies: (07:33) 5175627 | 11425.23 [Magless-Manaburn-32431]<BR>Pantz 530314 | 1170.67<BR>Reone 511972 | 1130.18<BR>Cast 472595 | 1043.26<BR>Izura 455658 | 1005.87<BR>Willee 371679 | 820.48<BR>Flirt 365175 | 806.13<BR>Magless 310413 | 685.24<BR>Mateo 275234 | 607.58<BR>Reak 258608 | 570.88<BR>Brendan 238820 | 527.20<BR>Dagoneth 226000 | 498.90<BR>Innsane 225497 | 497.79<BR>Clarrissa 204212 | 450.80<BR>Fayaden 184282 | 406.80<BR>Concerto 102894 | 227.14<BR>Dominar 101810 | 224.75<BR>Nazty 91864 | 202.79<BR>Xiria 84337 | 186.17<BR>Gash 83969 | 185.36<BR>Schim 44251 | 97.68<BR>Pogi 30459 | 67.24<BR><FONT color=#ffff00>Windle 5584 | 12.33</FONT><BR></P> <P>You want to talk about eq2s game mechanics and you are going to the timesink that is VG... now thats funny.  Give Sete your stuff.</P> <P>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Exactly my point. Chel Drak is a joke and with the exception of few encounters in post EOF most of that content has been dumbed down as well so just about any guild out there can get geared up now. So my point is why is AR considered overpowered in the first place? It's not mate. If AR had been left unchanged it would have no bearing on any of the encounters pre or post EOF. There are a couple of encounters that require us to range because of the unrealibility of AR in its current form with the EOF encounters and if we had AR as it was prior to EOF it would not make any difference in the encounter unless you were stacking your raid with a half a dozen brigands. Stand in and show me a parse on Mayong or the disease guy in FT (cant remember or spell his name) just like the one you posted on Chel Drak and you may have a leg to stand on. It's all T7 encounters and between the old content and the new content its unbalanced. I can turn off AR for all KOS mobs and Chel Drak and still contribute to the raid force and put up good dps to boot. However, with the design of the EOF raid enounters we are very limited on some of the encounters on what we can do for the raid other than to stand there and range the encounter with an occasional debuff between AE's. Any brigand having AE immunity on those encounters would do nothing to trivialize the encounter unless again you were stacking your raid with more than one or two brigands. There was no need to change AR and [Removed for Content] off the player database with yet another uneccessary class nerf and attempt to pass it of as a combat tweak. The lack of communication from the developers while they are trying to sort out the combat mechanics and encounter changes on the live servers is unforgiveable. We are paying for the mismanagement of this whole process and some of the brigand community is so desperate to get AR changed to anything other than what we have now that they are ready to aggree to a 7 or 15 sec proc. It may not change back to what we had before but don't settle just because you don't like what we have now. We should have AR restored to its previous functionality because it will not have any bearing on any of the encouunters I have seen so far and why should a guild have to build a grp around one player to get more realiable performance from one spell. No other classes have to rely on grp setup to have their spells function properly and even the high end guilds do not have the resources the build a raid grp around one player. Hold your ground fellow Brigands...post often and let the developers know we want AR restored. Will it happen...who knows...but you will never know if you don't try or out of desperation you settle for something less than what we deserve.</P> <P> </P> <P>P.S. Can I have your stuff Pants?</P> <DIV> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>Partigas</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>70 Brigand of Vagabonds</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>UNREST</FONT></SPAN></P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffff00>For those who might be a nervous when seeing the words “combat” and “changes,” used in the same sentence, we’d like to assure you that that this is nothing of the scale of what occurred last year where some systems were replaced wholesale and class abilities changed significantly. </FONT></SPAN><SPAN><FONT color=#ffff00>Gallentine 9-28-06</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffff00>Since then we have had a lot of opportunity to review your feedback and to test the effects of these changes on both current and new Echoes of Faydwer content.  In response, we have made a number of additional tweaks and additions. Dymus 11-15-06</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffff00>“Please Don’t blow smoke up my but you will ruin my autopsy". Anthony Hopkins Meet Joe Black</FONT></SPAN></P></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <P> </P></DIV>

[Torran]

<blockquote><hr>Zagats wrote:>snip<<div>I dont think he has any brigand useable drops, sadly.</div><hr></blockquote>Not to get too far off topic, but these aren't bad: <a target="_blank" href="http://eq2.xanadu-community.com/images/loot/1309.jpg">Shadow Strider Boots</a>

[Valer]

<div></div>Aside from Dispatch, on a raid theres no other spell that defines our class as much as AR.  With the way EoF content is designed we need this ability now more than ever.  Not only am i at risk, but I'm playing russian rulette with the whole raid force when I take a chance and joust in for my debuffs.  I shouldnt be forced to click Flashy Throw then take a 3 min afk.  Please give us back our <u><b>100% reliable</b></u> Amazing Reflexes.<div></div>

[Zagats]

<DIV>hey nice boots... didnt see those on his loot table when I checked it.  Perhaps they hadnt been discovered at that time.  and I havent seen a chain hat either.  I saw a leather one though.</DIV>

[Cerivus2]

<P>Reinstate AR as it was in the begining.</P> <P>There are no other options worth talking about.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Nickk]

Dunno if this has been suggested or not but, what about making it the same as it used to be with one major exception; it only makes you immune for your 2 highest resists.heck even just the highest.. that way we have to worry about what each mob does like other classes, have diff resist gear set-ups like other classes, but we get a realiable 100% AR back; everyone wins.<p>Message Edited by Nickkel on <span class=date_text>01-18-2007</span> <span class=time_text>12:52 PM</span>

[Valer]

<div></div>Theres no reason to change this from the original AR.  Just deal with the guilds that are stacking brigands for Matron, etc, as an <u><b>exploit</b></u>. Then give us back the AR thats been fuctioning "as intended" for 14 months.  A whole class shouldn't be forced to suffer becuase a few guilds are too [Removed for Content] try the encounter properly.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Valeros on <span class=date_text>01-19-2007</span> <span class=time_text>12:37 AM</span>

[Valer]

Please return Amazing Reflexes to it's previous 100% AE immunity.  Right now as a proc its EXTREMELY unreliable, and draining the fun out of raiding for us Brigands.  Also its impossible to keep our debuffs up on the mob when we have to joust in every 10 seconds unprotected.  Now with the change its either joust in every 10 sec and get hit w/ the AE, die, and lose all your debuffs on the mob, or land only 10% of our debuffs and sit at ranged w/ our only ranged CA.  Either way this change was totally uneccessary, and the timers on our debuffs were designed around having AE immunity, now that the immunity was stripped we have nothing to compensate.*sigh* sorry for the double post, just trying to keep the dream alive<div></div>

[AngusThorn]

<DIV>Amazing Reflexes is just a non-issue for me now, I've grown to just not pay any attention to it at all now.  Yes its still on my self buffing bar, but other then that I pay no attention to it at all... its worthless.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just wish they would have listened to us.  There where/are some great ideas on how to make it a useable skill again, yet we haven't even gotten any indication that the powers that be have even recognized our consern about this change they made... or the last minute and un-announced change that brought the duration down to 5 seconds.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I wish just one of the powers that be gave a @#^!@ about what we thought <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>~Xilixx</DIV>

[DarkMirrax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> AngusThorn wrote:<BR> <DIV>Amazing Reflexes is just a non-issue for me now, I've grown to just not pay any attention to it at all now.  Yes its still on my self buffing bar, but other then that I pay no attention to it at all... its worthless.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just wish they would have listened to us.  There where/are some great ideas on how to make it a useable skill again, yet we haven't even gotten any indication that the powers that be have even recognized our consern about this change they made... or the last minute and un-announced change that brought the duration down to 5 seconds.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I wish just one of the powers that be gave a @#^!@ about what we thought <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>~Xilixx</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>agreed and 10 secs with a option to improve to 12 seconds would have been fine , long enough to check if u needed a joust or not

[Turb]

I never had AR as it was so I don't miss it.To me it seems the issue was guilds cheesing encounters with 4 or 5 brigs. So make AR like other skills where it is based off an effetc on the mob such that if two brigs try to use it, it says 'would not take effect'.

[MilkToa]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> AngusThorn wrote:<BR> <DIV>Amazing Reflexes is just a non-issue for me now, I've grown to just not pay any attention to it at all now.  Yes its still on my self buffing bar, but other then that I pay no attention to it at all... its worthless.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just wish they would have listened to us.  There where/are some great ideas on how to make it a useable skill again, yet we haven't even gotten any indication that the powers that be have even recognized our consern about this change they made... or the last minute and un-announced change that brought the duration down to 5 seconds.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I wish just one of the powers that be gave a @#^!@ about what we thought <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>~Xilixx</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>It's a non-issue for me too - I just cancelled my 3 accounts. Sure I could play with a useless AR but I'm not interested in going backward and SOEs blatant disregard for all the contructive feedback regarding AR is total bull[I cannot control my vocabulary]. </P> <P> </P>

[Shidonya]

They didn't listen and won't so I've retired gl with the fight. Maybe someday I'll return who knows.

[Cerivus2]

<DIV>Talk about a kick in the face...</DIV> <DIV>Raid raid raid.</DIV> <DIV>Raid raid raid..</DIV> <DIV>Raid raid raid...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That is what I do, all week for 5 days on 2 days off.</DIV> <DIV>I am a raiding class Brig and I am saying that I have had enough of AR.</DIV> <DIV>The person or persons behind the AR change need to have a look at the ability NOW.</DIV> <DIV>AR is just worthless the way it stands and is just used plainly as a novelity.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>AR before the first Nerf = Fing Awesome.</DIV> <DIV>Since I was the only Brig in the raid, the only DPS in on the main mob during those AOE strikes, I could Debuff and pop the damm thing for what it was. No fear, No remorse.</DIV> <DIV>In short, the game for me and the class was a blast.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>AR first Nerf = W T F</DIV> <DIV>I remember the Devs spouting that PvP would not have an effect on PvE. Straight lies. This and the Boo Hoo rangers and cry baby Pzzy Swashys lead to this change.</DIV> <DIV>"I can't do dmg, I am worthless, whaaaa, Brigand is so overpowered nerf nerf nerf Whaaaaaa"</DIV> <DIV>Thanks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>AR Second nerf = SOE has no clue what to do</DIV> <DIV>They can't change it back> oh no's that would cause outrage sir! The first nerf was to much to begin with so to save face they role it under "Balance" this was the solution of the day, then they give it a Proc on seconds that one can upgrade via AA.</DIV> <DIV>What?!? Thats just [I cannot control my vocabulary]. Who seriously thought of this idea? Was it a mysterious MMPORG Math-a-ma-tishion? Or was it one of those game programmers that you see have graduated from DeVry?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This leaves me with this ---> ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In a raid, I am just there, swinging away.</DIV> <DIV>EOF Raid mobs all have crazy AOE 3-6 shot bursts, knockbacks, stuns, charms, bla bla bla.</DIV> <DIV>What do I get? Death and debt.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Haters if you are reading this (insert junk about learning to play my class, resist gear, whatever here). Then shove it up your azz. Cause fact is if you are a true raider of any class, then you will understand the Brigand Plight. Brigands win raids. The more we are geared with abilities to fight, the more DKP you get. Every one player out of the 24 team needs to have the best stuff to acomplish the End game content. If you have not experienced a 20 death night (on one mob at that), then you just don't have the room to comment.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SOE can you get rid of my Duel Wield ability and replace my daggers with a giant Jousting stick like they use in the movies? and while you are at it, can you give us a class hat that looks like one of those white Dunce Caps that says Noob down it which will give you -10 to all stats?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At least that will separate us from the other scouts in the raid.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Cerivus2 on <span class=date_text>01-26-2007</span> <span class=time_text>08:16 AM</span>

[SKULL]

<DIV> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>As I am sitting here waiting for the Vanguard servers to come online for the first time I am wondering to myself are my days with EQ2 numbered. I remember when I was this excited playing EQ2 and the anticipation of new content, the dread of grinding, and looking forward to the adrenline rush of beating your first raid mob for that expansion. I'm thinking what happened and how did I get to this crossroad. I will continue to raid with my guild and accomplish the remaining goals we have but I'm afraid that there is the possibility that it won't be enough. </FONT></SPAN><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3></FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>1.  EOF expansion has very little content for established Level 70 players. Other than the new AA lines, and I won't go into great detail about that issue but very little for a level 70 toon to do. I hit 100 this week and other than raiding thats it. When you play 60-80 hours a week you get bored. Seems like management could of planned that a little better. You got thousands of players standing around doing nothing and your rival company is coming out with a brand new MMO with he potential to put a serous dent in your player database. Although you have your hand in their pocket I still believe that if I were in your shoes would of come up with a better plan than that. And hell no I won't roll a new toon to kill time!</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>2. COMBAT CHANGES...COMBAT CHANGES...COMBAT CHANGES....GAME MECHANICS....GAME MECHANICS...GAME MECHANICS!!!  Think I pretty much covered that. I can remember all the promises that after the first combat revamp that it would never happen again. Well it did and it continues to be and issue in this expansion. Alot of players very unhappy about the changes with little or no communication from management on why our ideas were shelfed or totally igonored during beta. If your trying to drive the vested players from this game out...you have succeded.</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>3. Plat Farmers and Bot Teams. When your player database is 30-40% (not exact numbers but +/- 10% is my guess) you got a problem. They are so entwined in the economys of each server that I'm confident that they will never be gotten rid of. On some nights, at least on unrest the only people playing are the bots...it's unbelievable how bad it has gotten. Even the recent bannings did little or nothing to curb these cockroaches. Get your high priced lawyers on this and fix it...its killing the game.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>4. Lack of commnication from management on current changes and bugs that are being looked at. I have noticed that Grimwell has been posting the Test changes in the last few days and good on you for doing that its a step in the right direction. Prior to this week it was non existent and exremely frustrating that everyday we logged in we could see files downloading and changes in the game as we played that were never advertised. <U><STRONG>It would also be nice to get a response on AR and whether a change is being considered or planned. There are numerous strings reguarding this issue and a response one way or the other would be nice. If it is working as intended then tell us that...if you have listend to your players and are considering a change please tell us that. Either way you have put the issue to rest for a huge majority of the community.</STRONG></U></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>5.  Mismanaged execution of new content and expansions. This kind of ties in with #2 but deserves its own spot on the list. Besides all the combat changes and game mechanics we have had to put up with expansions and new content that is unfinished and poorly designed. Just with EOF we have had to deal with adronment changes that are detrimental to the player database and the crafters. Adornments is just one example of new content that should of been worked out on test long before it was realeased on live and the player database had to pay for your mistakes not to mention the combat changes.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>6. Itemization of raid content and zones. This issue has been very poor throughout the last several expansions. When DOF first came out there were whole zones that did not drop chests. I don't know why this is always a low priorty. Is it because you don't expect the players to get that far and you have time to get it fixed? IMO you have always underestimated the players in this game and it has come back to bite you in your rear end on numerous occasions. In any event its another nail in the coffin for this game. </SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>There are probably more and I may come back and add them to the list but servers are up in a few and I got to run. Good luck to all and for those of you that know me I will miss seeing you in game. Take care and God Bless.</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>Partigas</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>70 Brigand of Vagabonds</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3>UNREST</FONT></SPAN></P><SPAN><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#ffffff size=3> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffff00>For those who might be a nervous when seeing the words “combat” and “changes,” used in the same sentence, we’d like to assure you that that this is nothing of the scale of what occurred last year where some systems were replaced wholesale and class abilities changed significantly. </FONT></SPAN><SPAN><FONT color=#ffff00>Gallentine 9-28-06</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffff00>Since then we have had a lot of opportunity to review your feedback and to test the effects of these changes on both current and new Echoes of Faydwer content.  In response, we have made a number of additional tweaks and additions. Dymus 11-15-06</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffff00>“Please Don’t blow smoke up my but you will ruin my autopsy". Anthony Hopkins Meet Joe Black</FONT></SPAN></P></FONT></SPAN></DIV>

[Cerivus2]

<P>Partigas is one of the best known and respected Brigands on the Unrest Server. </P> <P>I back you and your decison to pop out for Vanguard as I have noticed a lot of our brothers in arms are doing the same. EQ2 will be a whole new environment after game release, this is for certain. It is unfortunate to loose such great players and defenders of the class.</P> <P> </P> <P>SOE face it.</P> <P>Your fired.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Zagats]

<DIV>Only reason I'm staying is computer specs.  I cant afford to upgrade my computer atm, so I'll be sticking to this game until I can afford to add more RAM.</DIV>

[DarkMirrax]

<DIV>rogue already registered and away we go</DIV>

[Basst]

Yep, after another raiding deathfest from AEs, I'm off to VG as well. Not cancelling my account (since they are one and the same) but EQ2 has replaced fun with frustration (in raids) and boredom (lack of anything else to do). It's fairly obvious that they aren't going to change AR and they don't listen to community which has been simply requesting some feedback for so long now. Gnome Psionicist ftw! (Though I know I'll end up with a rogue for my main <span>:smileytongue:</span> )<div></div>

[fideliss]

<DIV>Here is my question... If AR is so overpowering for a Brigand, would it not also mean that Percussion of Stone from a Dirge would be overpowered?  Parsing proves it that that one spell can absorb 15-20% of the total damage to the MT.  Don't get me wrong, I think it works wonderful.  But that ability really defines that class, they buff the MT better than any other class.  Yes they rock at melee buffs but are also the kings of the MT group.  AR defined the Brigand class in just the same way. So what is the difference?</DIV>

[Nitanyspirit]

<DIV>Do dirges do anything else?  I hear they have leet autoattack damage.</DIV>

[Goonch]

<P>/cough COB 4tw!!!!! /cough</P> <P>and if you dont know what c.o.b. is then you are missing out.</P> <P>And to those of you who are leaving -- please stop posting about your exodus from eq2, no one cares, those of us who know AR didn't define us and have adjusted accordingly really could care less about your constant trolling and whining.</P><p>Message Edited by Goonch on <span class=date_text>01-29-2007</span> <span class=time_text>11:44 AM</span>

[Valer]

<div></div>I have to disagree with you on this one Pantz.  I for one am glad they are posting, becuase maybe now the Devs will wake up and see how big of an issue this is for us.  And though our opinions may differ, I believe AR was one of our defining abilities.  Swashbucklers got the ability to deal out AE damage (Hurricane), and we <strike>have</strike> had one to avoid it (Amazing Reflexes).  If they dont plan on fixing AR at least remove it, and give us something useful like Hurricane, only single target.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Valeros on <span class=date_text>01-29-2007</span> <span class=time_text>09:50 AM</span>

[AlbinoLou]

Guys, face it...they caved in to petty jealous class envious whiners.  Pure and simple.Look AE's boil down to two types:1)  AE's one shot Brigands...we need some form of RELIABLE protection from them.2)  AE's don't one shot a Brig and we get the same group heals as the rest of the group.Now, if #1 is true then removing AR was foolish because we have one worthless ranged CA that doesn't even help with our job of Debuffing.  It also requires using throwing weapons which are [Removed for Content].  This means taht Brigands are unable to do their other job of DPS-ing and are not as effective with their debuffing.If #2 is true then why would it matter if we had our reliable AR?  It wouldn't effect the encounter and we'd just be enjoying a nifty little CA that was part of what made our class unique.  So, either AR is needed and it shouldn't have been changed OR it's not needed and was not affecting anything and we should get it back because keeping customers happy is job #1 in the service industry.  The only way the gimping of AR makes any sense is because the devs listened to whiners who were jealous of our class instead of looking at the real problems in game balance.<div></div>

[Zagats]

<DIV>ok i guess i have to be the "noob" to ask...</DIV> <DIV>CoB?</DIV> <DIV>What's that stand for?  I've probably heard of it, but don't recognize the acronym.</DIV>

[Goonch]

<P>Personally I doubt the devs really care since most of the people leaving are going to a game whos servers are probably in the same data center as the eq2 servers.... </P> <P>Back on topic.  This is how I see it currently. On trash our dps is the same or has gone up.  In KOS zones and contesteds we all agree that AR doesnt even matter.  In Fallen dynasty I can keep AR up on Chel'drak for torpors and get hit by the occassional stomp which donesn't hit hard.  Matron my dps has gone down a bit but its not significantly lower than any other scout classes other than ranger.  </P> <P>EOF </P> <P>CMF  - you can keep AR up and if you can't it doesnt matter</P> <P>FTH - If a Brig had AR in this zone with a chanter or bard they could put up 2k+ zonewide no problems, and even without a chanter or bard they would still be #1 zonewide even if they got pointed at.</P> <P>MMIS - AR doesnt matter except on Mayong (until LU 31), and my dps on that fight is comparable to swashies and assassins</P> <P>EH  - Same as FTH... if  AR was the same every raid would take 2 or 3 brigs</P> <P>I have no problems keeping up the important debuffs, especially with the tenure line.</P> <P>In summary. I DO NOT think it was right or fair after 14 months to change an 'ancient teaching' spell in such a drastic measure just because of the way the expansions encounters and zones were designed.   I also dont think AR should have been ninja changed the DAY OF the LU and reduced by 2 additional seconds.  </P> <P>Constructive criticism with facts and numbers and experiences is one thing.  But coming to these boards and saying "OMG I CANT GO ON WITHOUT AR... OUR CLASS IS NOTHING WITHOUT IT! Its not fair!! I quit to go play another sony published game, hahaha I GOT YOU GOOD!" is not productive nor proves anything.  </P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Goonch on <span class=date_text>01-29-2007</span> <span class=time_text>02:03 PM</span>

[Goonch]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zagats wrote:<BR> <DIV>ok i guess i have to be the "noob" to ask...</DIV> <DIV>CoB?</DIV> <DIV>What's that stand for?  I've probably heard of it, but don't recognize the acronym.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You'r enot a noob bro, prob just dont get a dirge much.. its Cacophony of Blades... and its the reason every melee wants a dirge in their group.

[Valer]

<div></div><div></div>I see what your saying in terms of guilds stacking brigs for zones like FTH and EH, but I believe the best solution for this would be what someone mentioned earlier.  Just restore AR to the previous AE immunity, except this time code it in such a way that only 1 or 2 brigs can have it activated raid wide, anymore than that and they'll recieve the "will not take effect" message.  That way we can still have our AE immunity and the Devs dont have to worry about guilds raiding w/ 5 brigs to trivialize AE heavy content.  It's not the DPS on AE heavy encounters I'm after, it just pisses me off when I can only use a few of my debuffs, and basically become nothing more than a Dispatch bot.  I love raiding, but when I'm forced to sit ranged I'm not able to do my part, and give 100% to help the raid along. And that is <u><b>beyond annoying</b></u>.<div></div><p><span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by Valeros on <span class=date_text>01-29-2007</span> <span class=time_text>11:48 AM</span>

[Zagats]

<DIV>Yup, I know of Cacophony of Blades.  Unfortunately, I dont ever get a dirge in my group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just quit using AR completely.  It never procs when I need it, so I dont even cast it anymore.  It's a waste.  But that doesnt mean I have lost the love of my class, although the fun in raiding has drastically gone down, with exception of Tactician's Armor.  That was fun!</DIV><p>Message Edited by Zagats on <span class=date_text>01-29-2007</span> <span class=time_text>11:52 AM</span>

[DarkMirrax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zagats wrote:<BR> <DIV>Yup, I know of Cacophony of Blades.  Unfortunately, I dont ever get a dirge in my group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just quit using AR completely.  It never procs when I need it, so I dont even cast it anymore.  It's a waste.  But that doesnt mean I have lost the love of my class, although the fun in raiding has drastically gone down, with exception of Tactician's Armor.  That was fun!</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Zagats on <SPAN class=date_text>01-29-2007</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:52 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>hehe <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> still love me brig too </P> <P>cob owns as does death march !</P> <P> </P>

[MilkToa]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Goonch wrote:<BR> <P>Personally I doubt the devs really care since most of the people leaving are going to a game whos servers are probably in the same data center as the eq2 servers.... </P> <P>Back on topic.  This is how I see it currently. On trash our dps is the same or has gone up.  In KOS zones and contesteds we all agree that AR doesnt even matter.  In Fallen dynasty I can keep AR up on Chel'drak for torpors and get hit by the occassional stomp which donesn't hit hard.  Matron my dps has gone down a bit but its not significantly lower than any other scout classes other than ranger.  </P> <P>EOF </P> <P>CMF  - you can keep AR up and if you can't it doesnt matter</P> <P>FTH - If a Brig had AR in this zone with a chanter or bard they could put up 2k+ zonewide no problems, and even without a chanter or bard they would still be #1 zonewide even if they got pointed at.</P> <P>MMIS - AR doesnt matter except on Mayong (until LU 31), and my dps on that fight is comparable to swashies and assassins</P> <P>EH  - Same as FTH... if  AR was the same every raid would take 2 or 3 brigs</P> <P>I have no problems keeping up the important debuffs, especially with the tenure line.</P> <P>In summary. I DO NOT think it was right or fair after 14 months to change an 'ancient teaching' spell in such a drastic measure just because of the way the expansions encounters and zones were designed.   I also dont think AR should have been ninja changed the DAY OF the LU and reduced by 2 additional seconds.  </P> <P>Constructive criticism with facts and numbers and experiences is one thing.  But coming to these boards and saying "OMG I CANT GO ON WITHOUT AR... OUR CLASS IS NOTHING WITHOUT IT! Its not fair!! I quit to go play another sony published game, hahaha I GOT YOU GOOD!" is not productive nor proves anything.  </P> <P> </P> <P>Message Edited by Goonch on <SPAN class=date_text>01-29-2007</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:03 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>The problem is the way SOE treats its paying customers. I played the game to have fun and the way SOE has managed the AR issue, along with many others has killed the fun. SOE's way is no discussion, no compromise, just unilateral changes where you have two options - bend over and take it or leave. Myself and many others (including you) offered lots of suggesting during EoF beta and after EoF went live regarding AR - SOE never even acknowledge the issue. If you don't like all the complaining I suggest you either turn your hostility toward the source of the problem (SOE) or stop reading threads about AR. I think people have a right to vent when they've gotten screwed - sorry that your sick of hearing it. </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Damari]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MilkToast wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Goonch wrote:<BR> <P>Personally I doubt the devs really care since most of the people leaving are going to a game whos servers are probably in the same data center as the eq2 servers....</P> <P>Back on topic.  This is how I see it currently. On trash our dps is the same or has gone up.  In KOS zones and contesteds we all agree that AR doesnt even matter.  In Fallen dynasty I can keep AR up on Chel'drak for torpors and get hit by the occassional stomp which donesn't hit hard.  Matron my dps has gone down a bit but its not significantly lower than any other scout classes other than ranger. </P> <P>EOF</P> <P>CMF  - you can keep AR up and if you can't it doesnt matter</P> <P>FTH - If a Brig had AR in this zone with a chanter or bard they could put up 2k+ zonewide no problems, and even without a chanter or bard they would still be #1 zonewide even if they got pointed at.</P> <P>MMIS - AR doesnt matter except on Mayong (until LU 31), and my dps on that fight is comparable to swashies and assassins</P> <P>EH  - Same as FTH... if  AR was the same every raid would take 2 or 3 brigs</P> <P>I have no problems keeping up the important debuffs, especially with the tenure line.</P> <P>In summary. I DO NOT think it was right or fair after 14 months to change an 'ancient teaching' spell in such a drastic measure just because of the way the expansions encounters and zones were designed.   I also dont think AR should have been ninja changed the DAY OF the LU and reduced by 2 additional seconds. </P> <P>Constructive criticism with facts and numbers and experiences is one thing.  But coming to these boards and saying "OMG I CANT GO ON WITHOUT AR... OUR CLASS IS NOTHING WITHOUT IT! Its not fair!! I quit to go play another sony published game, hahaha I GOT YOU GOOD!" is not productive nor proves anything. </P> <P> </P> <P>Message Edited by Goonch on <SPAN class=date_text>01-29-2007</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>02:03 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>The problem is the way SOE treats its paying customers. I played the game to have fun and the way SOE has managed the AR issue, along with many others has killed the fun. SOE's way is no discussion, no compromise, just unilateral changes where you have two options - bend over and take it or leave. Myself and many others (including you) offered lots of suggesting during EoF beta and after EoF went live regarding AR - SOE never even acknowledge the issue. If you don't like all the complaining I suggest you either turn your hostility toward the source of the problem (SOE) or stop reading threads about AR. I think people have a right to vent when they've gotten screwed - sorry that your sick of hearing it.</P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Well first, its their game.  All we can do is play it with the rule set they give us.  We may not like but its their world remember.</P> <P>2nd, Goonch has contributed more to the forum community than most, he test changes, offers advice and hints from a perspective of someone who plays in a guild that knows what they are doing.  He has indicated in many posts that he doesnt like the change in its current format and has offered suggestions for a more useful AR.  If anyone has a right to tell you to pull your head in, its him.  All you players leaving for vanguard, good luck to you, take ya bat n ball, your box of tissues and go.<BR></P><p>Message Edited by Damari on <span class=date_text>01-30-2007</span> <span class=time_text>03:19 PM</span>

[MilkToa]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Damari wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MilkToast wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Goonch wrote:<BR> <P>Personally I doubt the devs really care since most of the people leaving are going to a game whos servers are probably in the same data center as the eq2 servers....</P> <P>Back on topic.  This is how I see it currently. On trash our dps is the same or has gone up.  In KOS zones and contesteds we all agree that AR doesnt even matter.  In Fallen dynasty I can keep AR up on Chel'drak for torpors and get hit by the occassional stomp which donesn't hit hard.  Matron my dps has gone down a bit but its not significantly lower than any other scout classes other than ranger. </P> <P>EOF</P> <P>CMF  - you can keep AR up and if you can't it doesnt matter</P> <P>FTH - If a Brig had AR in this zone with a chanter or bard they could put up 2k+ zonewide no problems, and even without a chanter or bard they would still be #1 zonewide even if they got pointed at.</P> <P>MMIS - AR doesnt matter except on Mayong (until LU 31), and my dps on that fight is comparable to swashies and assassins</P> <P>EH  - Same as FTH... if  AR was the same every raid would take 2 or 3 brigs</P> <P>I have no problems keeping up the important debuffs, especially with the tenure line.</P> <P>In summary. I DO NOT think it was right or fair after 14 months to change an 'ancient teaching' spell in such a drastic measure just because of the way the expansions encounters and zones were designed.   I also dont think AR should have been ninja changed the DAY OF the LU and reduced by 2 additional seconds. </P> <P>Constructive criticism with facts and numbers and experiences is one thing.  But coming to these boards and saying "OMG I CANT GO ON WITHOUT AR... OUR CLASS IS NOTHING WITHOUT IT! Its not fair!! I quit to go play another sony published game, hahaha I GOT YOU GOOD!" is not productive nor proves anything. </P> <P> </P> <P>Message Edited by Goonch on <SPAN class=date_text>01-29-2007</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>02:03 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>The problem is the way SOE treats its paying customers. I played the game to have fun and the way SOE has managed the AR issue, along with many others has killed the fun. SOE's way is no discussion, no compromise, just unilateral changes where you have two options - bend over and take it or leave. Myself and many others (including you) offered lots of suggesting during EoF beta and after EoF went live regarding AR - SOE never even acknowledge the issue. If you don't like all the complaining I suggest you either turn your hostility toward the source of the problem (SOE) or stop reading threads about AR. I think people have a right to vent when they've gotten screwed - sorry that your sick of hearing it.</P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Well first, its their game.  All we can do is play it with the rule set they give us.  We may not like but its their world remember.</P> <P>2nd, Goonch has contributed more to the forum community than most, he test changes, offers advice and hints from a perspective of someone who plays in a guild that knows what they are doing.  He has indicated in many posts that he doesnt like the change in its current format and has offered suggestions for a more useful AR.  If anyone has a right to tell you to pull your head in, its him.  All you players leaving for vanguard, good luck to you, take ya bat n ball, your box of tissues and go.<BR></P> <P>Message Edited by Damari on <SPAN class=date_text>01-30-2007</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:19 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Lol, I'm hurt. Goonch is entitled to his opinion, I just his happen to think his frustration is misplaced in this instance. If you think people leaving is good for the game then you're a fool. From my perspective, SOE is loosing touch with their user base and that's never a good idea. My former guild has been around since release and has been raiding continously since T5. More people have left the guild in the past month than have left in the 6 month period prior to that. EoF may be making some people happy but there's really not much there for level 70 toons. I would have left whether Vanguard was around or not, it just the decision a little easier.</P> <P><BR> </P>

[DarkMirrax]

<DIV>a lot will leave for vangaurd thats for sure the question is though for how long ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Zagats]

<DIV>Dont worry, I'm not leaving.</DIV> <DIV>I had thought about it, then I looked at some of the screenshots of the game, and it didnt appeal to me.</DIV> <DIV>Also, I didnt see any lizard men in there.  If I cant be iksar, i dont wanna play! (or some other form of lizard man with a different name).</DIV>

[Rahatmattata]

Please fix AR kk? Thx.

[DarkMirrax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zagats wrote:<BR> <DIV>Dont worry, I'm not leaving.</DIV> <DIV>I had thought about it, then I looked at some of the screenshots of the game, and it didnt appeal to me.</DIV> <DIV>Also, I didnt see any lizard men in there.  If I cant be iksar, i dont wanna play! (or some other form of lizard man with a different name).</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>hehe agree with the lizzie though its not all that bad <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P>

[Zagats]

<DIV>I've found myself enjoying my Fae Paladin as well (he will probably become a shadowknight when that option becomes available).  However, I have to keep the petrified iksar eye on me at all times, along with a few bones, so I can be an iksar w/ wings!</DIV>

[DarkMirrax]

<DIV>you should try a disciple in vg they own lol !</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>monk healers ftw </DIV>

[Nocturnal Aby]

<P>I'd just like to add my name to the list of frustrated Brigands who wish SOE would have taken a more inventive way to making encounters challenging than the one resulting in the nerfing of one of our favorite abilities.</P> <P>As I've said in other thread about this, they could have made some of the raid mobs' moves encounter only (thus hitting the entire raid), or given them similarly unique tactics.</P> <P>I also would not mind the changes to AR had they not made the length of the buff so short (Wee!  5 secs! Oh wait, you mean it procced!  Oh crap, it's off already, missed, bah..)</P> <P> </P> <P>*sighs* Oh well...</P>

[Valer]

Almost 4 months since the change and still no response.  This Ancient Teaching really needs to be changed into something more useful than a 5 second proc.  That proc needs to stay on the Qeynos Cutlass, not one of our most important spells. Please give us back the old Amazing Reflexes, or something that we can use <u><b>reliably</b></u> to avoid AE's.   But at the very least, stop by and tell us whats going on, make some kind of effort to communicate with the Brigand community.  You'll have much happier costumers because of it.

[Azbadon]

<cite>duuf wrote:</cite><blockquote>PInski wrote: Maybe you shouldn't stand in front of the big dragon so it doesn't breath on you? Because if you're getting killed by Gorenaire, you really should just quit. You should take no AEs on that mob at all, unless you're dumb enough to stand in front of her, in which case you deserve to die. __________________________________________________ ______________________________________________ Lets see: Class is  a brig, hmm from what position should my brig attack the target, oh yes i need to be by the tank at the head with my many many frontal attacks What an idiotic statement. Maybe you should talk to the 11 other scouts mages and healers that went down with me with us standing between the back legs. We still got up and took the dragon out.  Stay on topic please and refrain from "dumb" advice as well as your trollish asinine suggestions. Duufus, lvl 70 Brig Duufuss, lvl 70 Pally Duffus, lvl 70 Wiz LEET HAX! (Title conferred by the greatest of furys Gutwrench) Everfrost <p>Message Edited by rtwitty on 01-10-2007 02:13 PM</p><p>Message Edited by rtwitty on 01-10-2007 02:23 PM</blockquote></p> <p>Your 'many many' frontal attacks? You realise gouge can also be casted from the flank, right? </p>

[Crimson Dragon]

i think that was a little thing called sarcasm...

[Azbadon]

Yeah, my brain exploded after reading the frontal attack thing, and didnt get to finish the post =p My apologies.

[Efour EQ2]

Im a 3 year VET but quit back before DoF and only came back at the start of 2007 so Ive never seen amazing reflexes in its glory, What EXACTLY was this spell like back in its day? ive always thought that in its current state its rather junk, its random and i dont even notice if its fired off and make sure i follow the call to retreat to avoid an AE if someone calls it. ive been thinking why do swashys get hurrricane and we get... well nealry nothing. I recently upgraded my stuff to adept III and masters and i forgot to even do amazing reflexes...... lol Its never going to get changed tho i dont know why you people try ehehe. Yes ill fix my sig  soon

[Goonch]

Basically to put it in T5 terms, if you had it in T5 while everyone was jousting wrath of fury every 30 secs on every contested, you would have been hacking away on the mob the whole time unscathed.

[Jida]

Master the spell, go full aa's toward the spell, get a group with a dirge, you should see it go off about every other spell... The problem is that certain combat arts do NOT set it off.. in this post... <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=348049" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=348049</a> It was stated that  " Looked into this one case specifically, and it should be causing spell triggers to proc.  Looks like a fix that is included with GU32 addresses an issue where certain spells that included both damage events and Daze events were being passed over as viable triggers for spell procs." I believe that there is another issue regarding Amazing reflexes and certain spells not giving it a chance to proc. A few that I know of that will not proc amazing reflexes are, Revoke, Traumatic Swipe, Torporus Strike, Walk the plank, Boot dagger, Elude, Hideaway, Vaunt, Subterfuge, Appeal for Mercy, Hardened (this is a self buff so may be moot on this item), Entangle, Restrain (80% sure this one doesn't proc it), Dispatch, Sinister Strike, Secure There are a few that VERY RARELY proc it, Devitalize, Dispatch (unsure if it never does.. or very rarely), Ruinous Rake.. The 4 that proc it the most often (and i have to wait for their timers to get another chance) are Sideswipe, Shrouded Blade, Flashy Throw, and Underground Negotiation. While i understand that the casting time of Flashy Throw and Underground Negotiation are reasons why these 2 proc it a lot, Sideswipe and Shrouded Blade ... they don't make sense. Granted since the changes for daze & stifles... it helped... but i don't think it fixed all the issues.

[yettii]

I was not aware of that problem.  And thats a HUGE problem.  Thats a <i>rediculous</i> amount of CAs that don't proc it.  The ones that don't do damage are understandable, though.  However, any attack that inflicts damage, whether it was an existing line of skills or gained through an AA, should proc it without a doubt.  No wonder so many complain, this isn't right.

[Fromingo]

<cite>Aestenon wrote:</cite><blockquote> <p>The thread was locked because it degraded into dev bashing, which will always result in a locked thread, regardless of how good it used to be.  If you wish this discussion to continue, then I suggest that you avoid that path at all costs.</p>This is your only warning. </blockquote> No offense but these are paying customers who deserve good customer service.  A dev should respond to their customers' concerns at least once in awhile.   

[Kegofbud]

I don't recall getting a decent response about it at all since it was nerfed. I'm not about to expect one now. lol

[Araktir]

I couldn't read all of this thread... some things made me laugh <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Great place to kill time with servers being down... AR rocks, cos it makes me levitate.  Seriously.

[Artalis the Elder]

<p>As a relatively new raiding Brig I have to say that AR is not exactly useful. Occassionally I'll get lucky and get a dirge in my group or even (OMG) a dirge AND a templar. In such a wonderful situation its up roughly 1/2 to 3/4 the time on a serious in-your-face burndown.</p><p>To be honest though it's not something I can count on and with my incredible lack of ranged abilities I am all but useless on certain fights (Treyloth in FTH comes to mind) I would really like to see this ability return to some form of true usefullness.</p><p> It think that fixing the combat arts that AREN'T proc'ing AR is a great first step. People might find that its up way more often and for longer, but first we need to fix what's broke, then look into changing things.</p>

[Sola]

<p>I'm thinking of making a brigand soon and have been reading up on the forums all the goods and bads.  One thing that caught my interest was issues regarding Amazing Reflexes.  Have these issues been addressed by chance?</p><p> Reason I ask is I used to play an Iksar Beastlord on EQ1 and up until I quit they never fixed the pet spasm issues regarding their warders.  It was listed as 1 of the top issues for the class and had been almost 2 years of going unfixed when I left.  Since I haven't been back to EQ1, I don't know if it's still an issue or not, but if this mentality of providing support is now becoming common practice in EQ2 than it's no wonder why so many have left to join wow or lotr.</p><p>I read the following comment in another post:</p><p><cite>Aestenon wrote:</cite><blockquote> </p><p>The thread was locked because it degraded into dev bashing, which will always result in a locked thread, regardless of how good it used to be.  If you wish this discussion to continue, then I suggest that you avoid that path at all costs.</p><p>This is your only warning.</p><p></blockquote> </p><p>My question is: is this really how the forum moderators and devs feel about us posting our grief in regards to a known issue they feel doesn't merit their attention?  If so, than what is the purpose for providing forums for the community in the first place?  I can say EQ2 is great product and the devs have done an outstanding job in it's initial consctruction.  All we as a community are asking is to continue that excellence in the support of fixing known issues.  If you want EQ2 to continue to be a leader in the MMORPG community, than it should be easy to see how listening and responding to customer's grief in a positive way is key for this common goal.  Believe me, I want EQ2 to grow; it's how I as a player who has invested thousands of hours into the product can see my investment continue to flourish.</p><p>In closing, please consider our grief in regards to broken game items as a high priority.  It all goes back to delivering on what was promised and helps to build better relations with us the community.</p><p>Thanks,</p>

[Echozar]

<cite>Sola wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I'm thinking of making a brigand soon and have been reading up on the forums all the goods and bads.  One thing that caught my interest was issues regarding Amazing Reflexes.  Have these issues been addressed by chance?</p><p> Reason I ask is I used to play an Iksar Beastlord on EQ1 and up until I quit they never fixed the pet spasm issues regarding their warders.  It was listed as 1 of the top issues for the class and had been almost 2 years of going unfixed when I left.  Since I haven't been back to EQ1, I don't know if it's still an issue or not, but if this mentality of providing support is now becoming common practice in EQ2 than it's no wonder why so many have left to join wow or lotr.</p><p>I read the following comment in another post:</p><p>Aestenon wrote: </p><blockquote><p>The thread was locked because it degraded into dev bashing, which will always result in a locked thread, regardless of how good it used to be.  If you wish this discussion to continue, then I suggest that you avoid that path at all costs.</p><p>This is your only warning.</p></blockquote> <p>My question is: is this really how the forum moderators and devs feel about us posting our grief in regards to a known issue they feel doesn't merit their attention?  If so, than what is the purpose for providing forums for the community in the first place?  I can say EQ2 is great product and the devs have done an outstanding job in it's initial consctruction.  All we as a community are asking is to continue that excellence in the support of fixing known issues.  If you want EQ2 to continue to be a leader in the MMORPG community, than it should be easy to see how listening and responding to customer's grief in a positive way is key for this common goal.  Believe me, I want EQ2 to grow; it's how I as a player who has invested thousands of hours into the product can see my investment continue to flourish.</p><p>In closing, please consider our grief in regards to broken game items as a high priority.  It all goes back to delivering on what was promised and helps to build better relations with us the community.</p><p>Thanks,</p></blockquote>nothing has changed... AR is still a proc which lasts for 6 secs.

[Jida]

<b><span style="color: #00ff00">The following are KNOWN to proc AR. Revoke Restrain Dispatch Devitalize Ruinous Rake Sideswipe Shrouded Blade Flashy Throw Underground Negotiation</span></b> <b><span style="color: #ff0000">The following are NOT fixed Sinister Strike Traumatic Swipe Torporus Strike Walk the plank Boot dagger</span></b> The below are a moot point Elude Hideaway Vaunt Subterfuge Appeal for Mercy Hardened Entangle Secure

[Kegofbud]

<cite>Echozar wrote:</cite><blockquote>nothing has changed... AR is still a proc which lasts for 6 secs. </blockquote> Since you want to be picky...it's 5 sec, 5.7 sec if you have Tenure.

[Taicheese]

<cite>DarkMirrax wrote:</cite><blockquote> just take AR off us and give us another debuff pls</blockquote> Umm no?

[Kylan_Blade]

<blockquote><b><span style="color: #00ff00">The following are KNOWN to proc AR. Revoke Restrain Dispatch Devitalize Ruinous Rake Sideswipe Shrouded Blade Flashy Throw Underground Negotiation</span></b> <b><span style="color: #ff0000">The following are NOT fixed Sinister Strike Traumatic Swipe Torporus Strike Walk the plank Boot dagger</span></b> The below are a moot point Elude Hideaway Vaunt Subterfuge Appeal for Mercy Hardened Entangle Secure</blockquote> what about: stab deceitful blow despairing thrust skewer disembowel malicious assault do these have a component that excludes them from proccing and so you ignored them?  or you just checked a few?  i think this is very valuable info, and i really appreciate you taking the time to figure this out and post it!

[Jida]

<cite>Kylan_Blade wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote><b><span style="color: #00ff00">The following are KNOWN to proc AR. Revoke Restrain Dispatch Devitalize Ruinous Rake Sideswipe Shrouded Blade Flashy Throw Underground Negotiation</span></b> <b><span style="color: #ff0000">The following are NOT fixed Sinister Strike Traumatic Swipe Torporus Strike Walk the plank Boot dagger</span></b> The below are a moot point Elude Hideaway Vaunt Subterfuge Appeal for Mercy Hardened Entangle Secure</blockquote> what about: stab deceitful blow despairing thrust skewer disembowel malicious assault do these have a component that excludes them from proccing and so you ignored them?  or you just checked a few?  i think this is very valuable info, and i really appreciate you taking the time to figure this out and post it! </blockquote> stab deceitful blow despairing thrust skewer disembowel malicious assault All of these proc AR (these were never an issue) so ....

[Lyasa]

all those on the list that don't proc AR, except sinister strike, are also under the abilities tab, instead of combat arts tab. maybe this is why they do not proc AR? in the case of sinister strike, maybe the mechanic doesn't recognize it as a CA, since it's a quested ability vs. a level granted? also should note that all those (except maybe sinister strike, didn't think to look until just now) are also unaffected by ring of the four winds. not sure if this holds true with other modifiers that are similar.

[Kylan_Blade]

TY ... i just wanted to be sure!