AR as a proc? - worthless

[Devolux]

If this skill is changed to a proc - it will become worthless.Brigand Ranged dps is - uh non existant.Looks like there will be a HUGE influx of new swashies.  What i don't get it folks complain about DPS - when Brigs cant do a ton of aE nothing like a Swashy - we are built for single target.  Right now when I play well (all mastered out and decent raid gear in WIS line and sTR) I parse right behind rangers and assasins - on single target and behind Swashy, Ranger, [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] on large encounters - so what is overpowered about AR?  With good resist gear anyone can sit in most of the AEs in the game - this to me is a worthless change.AR being a random proc - removes all of its utility.  Who can plan around a 5% proc chance.<div></div>

[Felshades]

ya'll are gonna shoot me for posting this based on my sig, but i do have a t6 brig <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  however that said i had an idea if they really 'must' change AR.i know they can do this, this is similar to how the lunge/buckler reversal aas work currently.buff thats always up, when target is hit in melee, casts lost reflexes on target of attack lasts for x seconds(x to be determined by those at soe).  target is immune to aoe effects, unless direct, hate gain of target is increased by 12/15/20%(master, ad3, ad1).  effect is dispelled when target takes damage or one aoe is absorbed.  effect refreshes every y(again to be determined) seconds.  100% proc chance.basically this means it goes off, takes a while before it can go off again, so its not ALWAYS up, which seems to be the big gripe.  wont make it useless imo, however it will require the brigand to think more instead of staring at a mobs' [Removed for Content] and hit buttons without caring where hes at.my 2 cp.<div></div>

[NemaLVey]

<P><FONT color=#cc99cc>/sharpens a wide assortment of daggers, swords, and throwing knives....</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#cc99cc>Interesting idea.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#cc99cc>There is always a better way, the % to proc is not it unfortunately.  Just trying to get some response from a Dev to the community, as to why it is deemed necessary after 1.5 years of it being nerfed repeatedly, and now getting this unholy smack down, is another.   The community, <U>I think</U>, is very much against this type of action, and for good reasons.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#cc99cc>Is it our DPS numbers cuz of it?   Well, there are other routes to cure that issue.  Resist gear, change for PvP reasons, or defined as <STRONG><U>overly</U></STRONG> powerful?  I would have to call, </FONT><A href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shenanigan" target=_blank><STRONG><FONT color=#cc99cc>shenanigans</FONT></STRONG></A><FONT color=#cc99cc> on that, seeing how we have many minus factors against us.  Everything is debatable, except that % to proc concept, cuz it seems more of an ability/class killing mechanism.</FONT></P>

[Crimson Dragon]

it's just jealousy on the part of an eq2 community that woke up this morning in its mid-20s and took a maturity trip down memory lane to middle school.<div></div>

[Dragonslayer810]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Crimson Dragon wrote:<BR>it's just jealousy on the part of an eq2 community that woke up this morning in its mid-20s and took a maturity trip down memory lane to middle school.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>/agree

[Devlin Chi']

<DIV>  Well as a proc  EVERYONE  will have to learn raids all over even more so with  every orange mob cuz I don't foresee brigands going in to  debuff mobs and waste armor for the sake of a raid.   I mean come on wooot we beat so and so while everyone is at 100% or less depending  on the raid  and such a brig will most likely  be down to atleast  70% ( that just a guess  most likely be more like full brake and countless repair kits at 84 gold on our server each last I looked) or worse  cuz everyone will cry the mob is resisting  spells and the MT's taunts  if we don't  ? WOW sound like a whole bunch of fun for us having guildies screaming at us cuz we don't debuff cuz we don't wanna take an aoe in the face   .....I know  what your thinking   just joust  pffft here the problem with  that  3 CA's  3 casting times Ruinous Rake for the mages and healers Devitalize for the the Melee's and Dispatch for everyone  1st 2 are min long debuffs with min long recast and dispatch is only 13 sec's  do you really think I  am gonna joust a mob get position and get all 3 off b4 the AE?(especially the aes that are to random to time ?)  I can tell you no no I won't nor will any brig. .  Plus our DPS will be nonexistent I am gonna be sitting out on raid cuz my class won't be worth a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] especially in the expansion raids :/ GEE thank you SOE for making my class no fun to play any more. Maybe its time to quit EQ2 if this is all I gonna deal with is them constantly nerfing  my class  or another class that i decide to make but as soon as it is deemed over powered it will just get nerfd..........</DIV>

[Magus_Bl]

<DIV>It's just a slap in the face.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I mean take any concentration buff on any class.. and then get told it's being changed from a permanent buff that stays up all the time, to a buff that has a ~5% proc, and will last for X number of seconds.  The buff is now worthless.  Nobody relies on a 5% proc.. or 10% proc.. or 15% proc.. for anything.  It's like making resist buffs a proc.  Worthless.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm expecting the standard "We needed to make this change due to the new combat system" garbage...  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hear Vanguard pre-order is coming up in December.. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It just peeves me that they'll take the absolute coolest thing about raiding with this class, and nerf it into utter uselessness.  </DIV>

[Shidonya]

Simple solution: Since it is an issue for others that we are able to stay in on mobs, I say boycot raids so that others will learn to appriciate what you had since it benefited them. Once the whiners are in repair hades and not getting the fat loots cause they can't kill orange epics I think they'll change their tone. I stopped raiding and my whole guild left see how efficient it is hehehe.

[Turb]

Well, some procs are 'permanent', like a zerker's berserk mode, but yeah it's rare.Rumours have it that one brig AA line will raise the 15 second timer, maybe it also raises the proc chance. This ties in with rumours I hear of pally AA lines improving pally skills, e.g. reducing Lay on Hands' reuse timer.Hopefully the NDA will lift soon and we'll have facts.But this for sure is an all-raid issue, not just a brig one.

[Magus_Bl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Turb0T wrote:<BR><BR>Rumours have it that one brig AA line will raise the 15 second timer, maybe it also raises the proc chance. This ties in with rumours I hear of pally AA lines improving pally skills, e.g. reducing Lay on Hands' reuse timer.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Which is even more of a slap in the face, to me.</P> <P>Hey.. we're going to take your buff away, make it a crappy proc, and then allow you to extend the duration of the proc effect by spending AA points...  </P> <P>So after spending AA points to improve the post expansion ability, it will hardly be a shadow of what the pre-expansion ability was.<BR></P>

[Jeffmaster]

<P>I mean everyone is crying...but there is NDA so we are not sure of anything..so why panic now?</P> <P>Is there some proof that it is getting changed?</P>

[Nitanyspirit]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Magus_Blue wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Turb0T wrote:<BR><BR>Rumours have it that one brig AA line will raise the 15 second timer, maybe it also raises the proc chance. This ties in with rumours I hear of pally AA lines improving pally skills, e.g. reducing Lay on Hands' reuse timer.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Which is even more of a slap in the face, to me.</P> <P>Hey.. we're going to take your buff away, make it a crappy proc, and then allow you to extend the duration of the proc effect by spending AA points...  </P> <P>So after spending AA points to improve the post expansion ability, it will hardly be a shadow of what the pre-expansion ability was.<BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>At least we all know exactly what AA's to spend. <BR>

[Kegofbud]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Crimson Dragon wrote:<BR>it's just jealousy on the part of an eq2 community that woke up this morning in its mid-20s and took a maturity trip down memory lane to middle school.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You've been reading the Swash forums again I see Crimson. rofl

[mikemcmodmi]

I think the worst part about this change is if we range, the chance of it procing is very low.  So it's not like we can range and then hope AR goes off to go in and melee. 

[Crimson Dragon]

<div><blockquote><hr>Kegofbud wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Crimson Dragon wrote:it's just jealousy on the part of an eq2 community that woke up this morning in its mid-20s and took a maturity trip down memory lane to middle school. <div></div> <hr> </blockquote>You've been reading the Swash forums again I see Crimson. rofl<hr></blockquote>and 90% of the combat discussion on a certain off-site forum...there are seriously 5 or 6 threads of 10 or more pages about how people think that amazing reflexes is the most overpowered godlike ability every contrived. makes me sick.</div>

[The-Fourm-Pirate]

<P>Where was it stated that AR was getting the axe? Not calling you a liar, just interested. I'll be [Removed for Content] off for sure if they change it to a proc without giving us somthing SIGNIFIGANT in return. I'm talking a skill to replace AR which will become useless if this happens.</P> <P>Even with AR as it is I don't see Brigands as overpowered, we can't AE or Ranged DPS worth [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and we're the most highly dependant class on the buffs of others, our only buffs are AR, stances (don't really do much other than the proc which the other DPS scouts get too) and +120 some STR/+500 some mitigation. If they give us about 30-40% DPS mod (in the new system you need higher percentages to get the same benefit) on our buff i'd be ok with it. But frankly the way EQ2 has been shaping up I think an AR nerf this bad without any compensation would be the last straw for me. Making it a 30 sec activatable every minute or so would be ok, but it being a proc below 25% would destroy the skill.</P><p>Message Edited by The-Fourm-Pirate on <span class=date_text>10-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:50 PM</span>

[Dragonslayer810]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Magus_Blue wrote:<BR> <DIV>It's just a slap in the face.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>~5% proc, and will last for X number of seconds.  </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Prismatic 3 has a better chance to proc aoe immunity...that is sad.

[Rokjin]

<P>If it's 5% every 15 seconds, as someone asked me to do the math in a PM.. I worked it out to be on average aoe immune for 15 of every 25 seconds with 50% haste, a 2 delay weapon and WIS line.. IE: You only risk being hit by an AE during a 10 second period on average..</P> <P>I'd still give up Hail of Steel for that any day... and I'd call that far from worthless. Not guaranteed, but still AOE immune a good 60% of the time. Add in CA spamming in there, and it jumps up to pretty much 100% aoe immunity again, since you'd be aoe immune for 15 of every 13 seconds..</P>

[Magus_Bl]

<DIV>Really I'm over it already.  Like Vallix, I'll be happy to be off the radar afterwards.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's such a convenient skill, but will make do with whatever they come out with.  Maybe we'll get the ninja bunny dumbfire pets I've been asking for for so long.</DIV>

[Thepiper]

Ill not be buying the new expantion, ill be waiting to hear how harsh the nerfing is first.  If its to harsh ill be quiting and im sure many other people will be also, im not paying anything just to find out that ill be playing a crap class.

[FuzzBall]

<div></div>Yet another award goes to SoE for thinking this one out long and hard, weighting up all the issues and making an educated decision.... Oh sh*t, sorry, thats not SoE, they dont do that.Nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf.... Oh joy, you know one day guys, they MIGHT actually not sit around a table and might not discuss "now guys,who can we screw up this patch?  Who should we nerf the hell out of today?!"<div></div><p>Message Edited by FuzzBall on <span class=date_text>10-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:24 PM</span>

[FuzzBall]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Jeffmaster wrote:<div></div> <p>I mean everyone is crying...but there is NDA so we are not sure of anything..so why panic now?</p> <p>Is there some proof that it is getting changed?</p><hr></blockquote>thank god there is a NDA, that must mean that this couldnt possibily be true.  I mean, who would ever think about circulating rumour when on beta, that couldnt be real.</div><p>Message Edited by FuzzBall on <span class=date_text>10-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:23 PM</span>

[Rahatmattata]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> Crimson Dragon wrote: <P>and 90% of the combat discussion on a certain off-site forum...</P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>What forum is that? Please, someone PM me if for some reason you can't link the forums on this board.<BR>

[FuzzBall]

<div><blockquote><hr>Cannibas wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <p></p> <hr> Crimson Dragon wrote: <p>and 90% of the combat discussion on a certain off-site forum...</p> <p></p> <hr> </blockquote>What forum is that? Please, someone PM me if for some reason you can't link the forums on this board.<hr></blockquote>same - [email protected] - no tracking on it, please feel free to mail me it as well.</div>

[Vampyr]

It's http://www.eq2flames.com/index.php  !!! <div></div>

[Timesquare]

<DIV>oh , great jeez , thanks SOE </DIV> <DIV>now that i know qeynos cutless finally is useful </DIV>

[MAYHEMMAYH]

Well I for one am not worried about this at all..... If SoE sees fit to nerf Brigands to the point of being useless ( which they will be without AR on raids) I just won't play or pay for this game anymore.../shrug....I've played 3 different classes to lvl 70 over the past 2 yrs and have seen all of them beat to hell with the "nerf bat"......I'll never understand why SoE goes out of their way to ruin a game thats supposed to fun to play..../cheers SoE

[LlewCadey]

i played a warlock to cap (50) then SOE nerfed them in LU13, played a brig to cap (70) and now SOE will nerf themhow many warlocks do you see in raids now days?cant wait for the fallout of the brigand nerf<div></div>

[Crimson Dragon]

yeah, i'm pretty excited.<span>:smileyhappy:</span><div></div>

[Lyasa]

o yahhhh. can't wait for the changes.... bring 'em on... /sarcasm off anyway it happens, i suppose i'll live with it. <div></div>

[Ildarus]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Fenrihr wrote:<BR>o yahhhh. can't wait for the changes.... bring 'em on...<BR><BR><BR>/sarcasm off<BR><BR>anyway it happens, i suppose i'll live with it.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I am not happy about this rumored change, but I am not going to let it ruin the game. AR has spoiled some of the Brigands because most other melee classes have to joust to get their max DPS. Both Swashies and Assassins have to be within melee range to get their best DPS and have to joust AOE's to do so. We will survive. I do think, and I am hoping they give us something else to compensate us for our DPS loss. Because I do know that the only reason we get some of the DPS we got is because of our immunity.

[Rokjin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> LlewCadeyrn wrote:<BR>i played a warlock to cap (50) then SOE nerfed them in LU13, played a brig to cap (70) and now SOE will nerf them<BR><BR><BR>how many warlocks do you see in raids now days?<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>cant wait for the fallout of the brigand nerf<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Lies! You played a Swashbuckler, then betrayed you traitorous bastage!

[urgl]

There are _the_ healers, _the_ tanks and _the_ DPS-classes. There are monks/bruisers/pet-classes who are _the_ pulling/solo classes. Why shouldn't the brigand be and stay _the_ raiding class? That's why _I_ chose this class.I can't see where a Brigand is too UBER that he DESERVES a nerf. It's hard to find the correct mob and then the mob's back when you are inside a crowd of mobs and raiders, swarm-pets and spell effects.While 'AoE immune if not targeted directly' i still have to work very hard by clicking LOTs of buttons every night and run back and forth and around like mad just to get off my positional Combat Arts from front/back/side/hidden. And what for? I can achieve like 60-70% of our swashie's DPS (which is for most part nice and lazy ae-autoattack <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) and I am close to getting aggro every second fight.---Of course our MT group setup is optimal for tank aggro, of course i have AR as well as most other CAs at M1, of course i am nearly fully fabled with a 84DR 1hander and STR/WIS optimized.Still, if i went nuts to create max-damage-peaks after dispatching (and that's the brigand's way to 'optimize DPS'), i can kill myself as well as any amends-giving pally for sure.

[mikemcmodmi]

Beg your coercer for a hate reduction buff.  Aggro problem solved and you can go max dps.

[lik]

<DIV>Right now AR is 100% immunity.. change it to 80%... you only take 20% damage. and if you are not fully healed or cured by the time the next ae goes off. You get 60% immunity.  etc.....         you will have to atleast work for immunity that way.</DIV>

[Antryg Mistrose]

Current Brigand: <ul> <li>Can get to a spot next to the mob and stay there the entire fight</li> <li>Has no need to raise WIS whatsoever</li> <li>Has 7 slots (right hand side) to dedicate to best dps/str/agi ....</li> </ul> Yes, that ONE spell was completely overpowered. You are still an essential raid class (more for debuffs now than dps), but now are a bit harder to play <div></div>

[Leie]

<P>Current Caster (mage)</P> <P>1) Can get a position at max range and stay there the entire fight</P> <P>2) Has no need for Str, Sta, physical mitigation</P> <P>3) Has 14 (or whatever slots) to increase their Int, Power, FT, resists</P> <P>...and your point is?</P>

[Myrcul]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Antryg Mistrose wrote:<BR>Current Brigand:<BR><BR> <UL> <LI>Can get to a spot next to the mob and stay there the entire fight</LI> <LI>Has no need to raise WIS whatsoever</LI> <LI>Has 7 slots (right hand side) to dedicate to best dps/str/agi ....</LI></UL><BR>Yes, that ONE spell was completely overpowered. You are still an essential raid class (more for debuffs now than dps), but now are a bit harder to play<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>To borrow a line from a board troll elsewhere...</P> <P> </P> <P>Your a [Removed for Content].</P> <P> </P> <P>You really have no clue, good to see you have a Brigand in your sig to demonstrate this for us all and more easily dismiss your comments.</P>

[Antryg Mistrose]

I bow to your incredibly well thought out and detailed response - Welcome to jousting suckers<div></div>

[Rommie10-284]

The NDA is officially down - and the Beta Brigands can now tell you just how much the AR change hurts. Buy yourselves some Great Spears and enjoy the fun of Jousting! <div></div>

[KannaWhoopass]

<P>Ok i was a Ranger when the ranger nerf came in. </P> <P>I know what it is have a class changed..</P> <P> </P> <P>But seriously ..cry me a river.</P> <P>The spell was too good.</P> <P>any spell that would allow you to save the 20+ plat required to get resist gear to match its effect is too much.</P> <P>Imaginime time others have spent harvesting moonstones to make resist gear to survive raid content.</P> <P>Cash spent to get it made</P> <P>the sacrifice of stats when wearing resist gear .</P> <P>If brigs had to make a choice when they got AR like Heat/Cold immunity only or Poison/Disease </P> <P>or if the spell had a 20 second duration with a 35 second recast time to incorperate some skill into it's use </P> <P>perhaps it would have been fine ..but a spell offering cold heat disease poison divine mental piercing crushing slashing stiffle stun immunity ...(if not attacked directly) sry its too good.</P> <P>Others sacrifice stat gear to wear resist gear for certain mobs.</P> <P>Others couldnt buy horses/masters cause they spent cash on rares to make resist gear.</P> <P>Welcome to the club of people wo are not immune to 50% of the dammage in the game.</P> <P>Suck it up </P> <P>You can still get the effect ..you will need to pay attention ..to when it procs..start timing aoe's ..get resist gear ..</P> <P>join the rest of us ..who dont stand next to the most deadly mobs in the game spamming buttons with immunity.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by KannaWhoopass on <span class=date_text>11-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:25 AM</span>

[Lyasa]

if it was timable i prolbably wouldn't complain nearly as much. maybe a 5s duration on a 30s timer. allows us to be immune 1/6 of the time. instead of a totally random proc. i've seen it proc 3 times in a row at the very end of a fight, and go 5 fights w/o ever procing..  so TIMING stuff is out of the question. <div></div>

[Leie]

<P>AR is useless in solo play style</P> <P>AR is useless in group play style</P> <P>AR was useful on raids. Raids consist of 12-24 ppl, it's a group effort - whatever abilities are used are meant for success of the group and not 1 person in particular. How does the fact that a brigand is immune to AoE is bad for anyone else on a raid? </P>

[jarnpraetor]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rokjin wrote:<BR> <P>If it's 5% every 15 seconds, as someone asked me to do the math in a PM.. I worked it out to be on average aoe immune for 15 of every 25 seconds with 50% haste, a 2 delay weapon and WIS line.. IE: You only risk being hit by an AE during a 10 second period on average..</P> <P>I'd still give up Hail of Steel for that any day... and I'd call that far from worthless. Not guaranteed, but still AOE immune a good 60% of the time. Add in CA spamming in there, and it jumps up to pretty much 100% aoe immunity again, since you'd be aoe immune for 15 of every 13 seconds..</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You're missing a vital part of the change. AR ONLY procs off CA's, not any form of auto attack. The spell says it has a 15% chance of proc'ing off a CA, but this is not the case. It modifies the proc % base on CA casting time. So on a 0.5 second casting time CA you have a 2.5% proc chance. Currently things aren't proc'ing at the rate people expect, so that 2.5% chance to proc will seem more like 1%. So you MIGHT get 15 seconds of immunity every 3 to 4 minutes of fighting, I've gone much longer without it proc'ing. Haste and weapon delay do not matter because it only calculates CA casting time for it's proc rate.<p>Message Edited by jarnpraetor on <span class=date_text>11-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:55 PM</span>

[Jida]

Sailwind FTW.yeah.. i said it.. if you got anything that modifies your combat art cast /recast timers.. your gonna have to min/max them to get the full effect of AR.I envision my raids will be like this.Stay outta AE till it goes off, Trying to proc AR from our flashy throw, once ae goes off.. unload everything until AR procs.. then stop casting ... once AR gets to 7 seconds.. unload everything trying to get it to proc again.. once it get to 2 seconds.. run outrepeat =(

[yac]

Leie wrote:<hr size="2" width="100%"><p>AR is useless in solo play style</p> <p>AR is useless in group play style</p> <p>AR was useful on raids. Raids consist of 12-24 ppl, it's a group effort - whatever abilities are used are meant for success of the group and not 1 person in particular. How does the fact that a brigand is immune to AoE is bad for anyone else on a raid? </p><hr size="2" width="100%"><p>Because anything that makes a class unique has to be nerfed.   This is the thing about this game that keeps me wondering sometimes why I continue to play it.  The SECOND a class gets a unique ability, other classes start rolling into the class boards hating on it and complaining until it gets nerfed to the point of uselessness.</p>Happened with Bards, Happened with Enchanters, Happened with Guards when Bruisers/Monks complained, Happened with Wizards, Happened with Rangers, etc......AR IS NOT a game breaking feature.  Like Leie said, it's totally useless in every other game play facet save for raids....and even then, you have to pay attention to not draw hate away from the MT during the fight.From someone who plays multiple classes across the board, I'm not here to hate on one class.  If there is something wrong with a class, I'd rather discuss how to improve it instead of calling for a nerf to every other class across the board.  Then again, that seems to be the order of the day around here.Mopin - 70 BrigandBarbarus - 70 BerzerkerAurias - 69 TemplarMajeh - 57 Wizard<div></div>