where should a brigand be parsing?

[Skylher]

<DIV>It is my belief a brigand should be up there under our assassin, even with our swashy, and above our wizards/necros/warlocks. I dont  play a brigand so I am curious. Our assassin knows his character so well that he maximizes his dps and is always in the 1700-2100 range. Although it would be nice for the whole raid to know their characters that well, its unrealistic, but I would think a brigand should be in the 1k-1200 range at least. I realize that on any given fight the necros/conjurers/wizards and warlocks might be 2-5 on the parse and the brigand might slip some. But our brigand never is on the parse. He claims the max he can and will ever do is 800, but normally is in the 500-650 range. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>so my question to you brigands is no matter what your aa line is,  where should you be on the parse, and what is avg. range of dps a brigand should be at?</DIV>

[Goonch]

<P>if i have a troub and a group set up where i have decent procs and max haste i can dps 1300 avg np.  some single targets i can go way higher some group encounters i go lower.</P> <P>group set up means alot.  what classes is he with during raids usually?</P><p>Message Edited by Goonch on <span class=date_text>08-30-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:44 PM</span>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Skylher wrote:<BR> <DIV>It is my belief a brigand should be up there under our assassin, even with our swashy, and above our wizards/necros/warlocks. I dont  play a brigand so I am curious. Our assassin knows his character so well that he maximizes his dps and is always in the 1700-2100 range. Although it would be nice for the whole raid to know their characters that well, its unrealistic, but I would think a brigand should be in the 1k-1200 range at least. I realize that on any given fight the necros/conjurers/wizards and warlocks might be 2-5 on the parse and the brigand might slip some. But our brigand never is on the parse. He claims the max he can and will ever do is 800, but normally is in the 500-650 range. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>so my question to you brigands is no matter what your aa line is,  where should you be on the parse, and what is avg. range of dps a brigand should be at?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I dont think your brig will consistantly hit the same #'s as a swash can.  They do pretty darn good dps when played right.</P> <P>I see lots of parses from brigs doing anywhere from 800-1.5k.  May want to find out what aa's they chose and what weapon(s) he/she is using, along with ca' quality (all adp3 or m1 or mix) and gear / group set up ect.</P>

[AngusThorn]

<DIV>I'm a raid geared level 70 Brigand (though I still have room for several upgrades).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My goal each encounter is to surpass the 1k mark, though as always this is dependant upon the type of encounter I can usually hit this mark with little trouble if I'm paying attention.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I average around 850 dps for the night including all wipes, group encounters and mem wipe encounters.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'd say 800 dps is around the average that a averagely equiped (treasured/mastercrafted/legendary) Brigand could expect.  Its all about timeing, and abit of experimenting on combinations that can maximize your damage output.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have had a few (I'll call them lucky) parses that put me up in the 1.5k-2k range, but that doesn't happen very often <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EDIT: 500-650 isn't very impressive, seems like he/she isn't paying much attention to their CA's or their combinations. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>~Xilixx</DIV> <P>Message Edited by AngusThorn on <SPAN class=date_text>08-30-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:31 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by AngusThorn on <span class=date_text>08-30-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:34 PM</span>

[terahak]

I could use the spoon from cazels no AAs and adept1 spells and parse more than 500, someone is definitely slacking. average brig is probably 1-1.2k,  fully equipped raiding brig is usally 1300-1700 with spikes over 2k with BoT, group setups as always is the most important factor there <div></div>

[MaestroX]

<P>I agree with the numbers stated so far:  under  650 = slacker, average 850, raid brig 1k+, uber 1.5k with all the same resevations for group make up and buffs for haste and DPS.</P> <P>The X factor for my raid DPS, and a  defining difference between Brigands and Swashys  is single target vs multi-target encounters.  On several Lab Trash runs with 12 guildies I basicly trade dps position on the parser with the Swashy.  We probably average 1k dps for the run, but he has a slight edge on the groups of three and I get the edge on the drakota singles.  Swashy have more AE, we have better rear position.  Another variable is the quality of the tank in holding a mob still.  With a weak tank and a moving mob, backstabber positional damage goes way down and caster damage stays the same.</P>

[Fijjy]

<div><blockquote><hr>terahak wrote:I could use the spoon from cazels no AAs and adept1 spells and parse more than 500, someone is definitely slacking. average brig is probably 1-1.2k,  fully equipped raiding brig is usally 1300-1700 with spikes over 2k with BoT, group setups as always is the most important factor there <div></div><hr></blockquote>Does Band of Thugs count for us in a parse still?  They don't have names anymore so I figured they didn't.  I did notice in the combat spam it will say "Fijster's thug hits for X" but will parser programs relate that correctly?</div>

[terahak]

yup it gets added correctly<div></div>

[Andai]

<P>Depending on group composition i do anything between 750 and 1600 atm. I usually do (in an average raidgroup) about 850-1100 depending on if i've used my BoT or one of my DPS buffs during the fight.</P> <P>As brigands don't have any short-recast/permanent DPS/Haste buffs this makes us dependent on good group composition to be able to dish out the big DPS numbers. A raidgroup with a dirge, inquisitor, illusionist and me equals one happy brigand.</P>

[Sarin000]

<P>As a 65 brig that's just now getting into raiding, I can parse abuot 600 on average, apparently this is low, but I'm trying to maximize my damage as best as possible.  I have taken the Wis AA line and moved into the STR line as well.  </P> <P> </P> <P>My stats self buffed are</P> <P>Str: 346            Int:60</P> <P>Agi: 192            Wis:144</P> <P>Sta: 156</P> <P> </P> <P>My attack is at 1122. </P> <P>Currently using Crown of X'haviz, the Red Hauberk of Xhorroz, a Mantle of Orate (though have a nice one at 67), Rezhirz's Bracers of the task, Dark League Gloves, FBS belt (for the haste), Leggings of Silvershadow, and Legendary Journeyman's Boots.  </P> <P>For my weapon I single wield the Bixie Blade (best 1 handed damage I can find on Butcherblock that isn't 50plat).  I use a pristine tailored dragonhide bandolier for any long range, and to use my CA.  I have a shadow imbued hex doll and the A fright imbued (both level 60 versions) in my charm slots.  </P> <P>I have</P> <P>Creeping Cuffs, a stoneheart bracelet, A vanadium band of STr (the original version)</P> <P>and plumptucket's ruby engagement ring, along with a granitestone stud, and a necklace of elemental ice.</P> <P>I'm constantly using either the Mastercrafted Caustic potion or the hemotoxin for the level.  </P> <P>Most of my CA's are Adept III a couple of masters and some Adept I's still (just ogt me a collection of spongy's though to upgrade)</P> <P> </P> <P>I use my CA's pretty wisely and double up as a reasonable spot (even linked via a macro)</P> <P> </P> <P>What am I doing wrong?  Why can't I parse so high, is it my gear and level?</P> <P> </P> <P>Thanks for the thuoghts</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Jeffmaster]

<P>from what I see...my 48 brig <EM>almost</EM> has better stats than you....you got way too much wisdom...don't focus on that..if you buy mastercrafted items, focus on the str agl sta ones</P> <P>my agl and sta are higher than yours...your equipement in that case isn't up to par IMO</P>

[Jeffmaster]

at 65..you would probably be able to get xegonite armor for a good price try to see if that is better

[ag]

Most of it's been covered, but a few things to consider.The only thing that determines auto-attack and CA damage is STR. There's been no official explanation that I'm aware of that defines exactly what the Attack value does exactly, but apparently higher is better, and the only few things that make it go up are weapon type/tier(?), skill (+CPS) or STR.So, if you're in a group at level 70 and your STR is 510 or higher, that's covered. Arguably, given there's apparently no cap on Attack, it may be that 1000 STR means rediculous auto-attack values. I've never tested it.Here's a whole bunch of statements that are mildly accurate or inaccurate, depending on your point of view:If you're trying to do damage, you won't be tanking, so Mitigation is pointless.Agility is pointless as it has no bearing whatsoever on anything except power pool, which in practice means nothing if you're using Grandmaster Mental Breach.Wisdom means nothing as you're never getting hit by spells or AE's. (for resists)STA means nothing as you're never tanking or getting hitINT affects some proc and poison damage. Good to raise if you can.Playstyle plays a huge role here. If you use Ignorant Bliss and Mental Breach all the time, have Master1 Amazing Reflexes, and 4488 in the INT line, you can be a damage machine, but you might be a bit of a paper tiger/glass cannon.For me, I end up tanking a fair bit, so this isn't how I do it, but it could be done in the name of almighty DPS. Short version: 510 STR + 510 INT + 100% haste + 100% DPS mod would probably be as good as you need to get, 99% of the time. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[mikemcmodmi]

<P>I've hit in the 500-600 range from just autoattacks.  Sounds like your brigand is taking a free ride.</P> <P>For zonewide parses a brigand should be breaking 1k no problems.  Once we did harla with 19 people so I got put in a group all by myself (I didn't need healing) and I hit 800-900 dps through the zone.  So that's with no buffs whatsoever.</P><p>Message Edited by mikemcmodmike on <span class=date_text>08-31-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:38 AM</span>

[Velr]

Yeah, definately a slacker IMO.  I did Harla Dar tonight and the 4th group was me and 2 other brigands, so I was relying on my self-buffs and my 20% haste only.  Parsed 980 DPS on the Harla fight, could have been a tad higher, was wearing my [Removed for Content] undaunted gloves that have no str so i was only at 488 str.  Need to get m1 str/mit buff, lol.  My gear is fairly decent, few fabled pieces, a fabled 1hander with 79.8rating and WIS/STR AA spec.  However even when I was using my Grizzfazzle dagger and some t6 fabled POS sword in offhand I was still parsing at least 750-850ish (these were in groups with at least a small dps buff or something though) <div></div>

[Timesquare]

<P>brigand can do over 2k just fyi</P> <P>avg around 1500</P><p>Message Edited by Timesquare on <span class=date_text>08-31-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:55 PM</span>

[Riversideblues]

<div></div>max/high dps and haste: 1500+ zonewide(much much much different from what you think your 'highs' are) in a guild that pulls very very fastwith like, just a troube, 1200-1400 maybe? just respeced so who knows where i stand nowbut it all depends, if you're in a guild that waits for people spells to up you're going to get higher parses, i've either got ruthless, decetfulness, or thugs going and then one or two encounters without it, so i get a lil lower. but i'd rather parse lower if it means we can clear hos/lyceum/deathtoll/labs/cheldrak plus contested easy in 2 days of raidin<div></div><p>Message Edited by Riversideblues on <span class=date_text>09-01-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:25 AM</span>

[Sarin000]

<P><EM>Yeah, definately a slacker IMO.  I did Harla Dar tonight and the 4th group was me and 2 other brigands, so I was relying on my self-buffs and my 20% haste only.  Parsed 980 DPS on the Harla fight, could have been a tad higher, was wearing my [Removed for Content] undaunted gloves that have no str so i was only at 488 str.  Need to get m1 str/mit buff, lol.  My gear is fairly decent, few fabled pieces, a fabled 1hander with 79.8rating and WIS/STR AA spec.  However even when I was using my Grizzfazzle dagger and some t6 fabled POS sword in offhand I was still parsing at least 750-850ish (these were in groups with at least a small dps buff or something though)<BR></EM></P> <P><EM></EM> </P> <P>It's not very nice to call me a slacker when I'm just learning.  And secondly I'm only 65, so I don't have access to the use of some of the higher Str boosting items, and the best one hander I've been able to realistically afford is a stupid bixie blade (62 DR).  I was hoping for some useful critiquing not a lashing abuot how lazy of a brigand I am.  I did post and update to my list on the main forums though with modified equipment and a respec of my AA to be more inline with Raiding.  (Previously I had been a tanking brigand duoing with a fury)  I'd really appreciate some suggestions on what I can actually upgrade to at say.. 67 and what would be a more ideal set up.</P> <P> </P> <P>Thanks<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[AngusThorn]

<DIV>He wasn't calling "you" a slacker Sarin <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Just the Brigand that was being talked about in the Origonal Post.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) Your level 65, you have 5 more levels to grow <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  That makes a big difference when fighting against yellow vs. the orange epics your fighting now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2) I'm a DWing Brigand, its my passion and my life <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I don't have much to add as far as single wielding brigands go.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Things you can start to work on (as you work your way up to level 70).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) Work on bringing your agility and intelligence up along with your strength thru equipment.  Just make a habit of looking at the broker when your in town for upgrades, sometimes you can find some good deals! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  If you have the funds, start out with some nice Xegonite chain and boost up your str/agil/stam.  Get some nice jewelry that perhaps boosts INT or any other stat you think could use a boost.  You don't have to worry about resists so go for the stats! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2) Upgrade your CA's.  Thats a biggie.  Make it a goal of yours to get all your offensive skills up to adept 3 as soon as possible.  Don't worry about Masters just yet, but again if you see a good deal (or a buddy offers one for free) snatch it up! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3) Poisons, test out what poisons work best for you.  Grab a couple of exceptional poisons (red, purple and blue) and try them out.  When you find a good balance that works for you start getting the good Grandmaster stuff for raids.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4) Potions give abit of a boost as well.  I use the INT boosting one myself.  It helps with proc's abit for me... but there are lots of different flavors out there for you to test out! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>5) Work out good combinations, and redo your hotbars so that it makes it easier for you to quickly chain them together.  I like to put entire "Chains" on one bar and I just go right down the line as they refresh.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It takes abit of work, but it is fun in the end <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another big thing in raids if you couldn't tell is group make up.  But thats something your raiding alliance or guild will have to play around with.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, don't get down on yourself if you can't reach the DPS's that some of us are hitting.  It takes abit of time and alot of time gathering up Raid/Fable equipment.  You'll get there, but again it takes time.  Pay no mind to the rest of us chest thumping and showing off our DPS numbers <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>~Xilixx</DIV> <DIV>70 Brigand Najena</DIV> <DIV>The Crew</DIV><p>Message Edited by AngusThorn on <span class=date_text>09-01-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:32 AM</span>

[FuzzBall]

800 = average Brig but put a coercer in the group and get his 74% M1 dps mod and someone to throw haste on you (or get the dragonhides belt from Deathtoll) and you could dbl it easily.  It all depends on how you do the debuffs.  Im working the debuffs so that the dps classes can hit for more and usually sit in the 700-900 range.  I never get a coercer / illusionist in my group though <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Velr]

<div><blockquote><hr>Sarin000 wrote:<div></div> <p><em>Yeah, definately a slacker IMO.  I did Harla Dar tonight and the 4th group was me and 2 other brigands, so I was relying on my self-buffs and my 20% haste only.  Parsed 980 DPS on the Harla fight, could have been a tad higher, was wearing my [Removed for Content] undaunted gloves that have no str so i was only at 488 str.  Need to get m1 str/mit buff, lol.  My gear is fairly decent, few fabled pieces, a fabled 1hander with 79.8rating and WIS/STR AA spec.  However even when I was using my Grizzfazzle dagger and some t6 fabled POS sword in offhand I was still parsing at least 750-850ish (these were in groups with at least a small dps buff or something though)</em></p> <p><em></em> </p> <p>It's not very nice to call me a slacker when I'm just learning.  And secondly I'm only 65, so I don't have access to the use of some of the higher Str boosting items, and the best one hander I've been able to realistically afford is a stupid bixie blade (62 DR).  I was hoping for some useful critiquing not a lashing abuot how lazy of a brigand I am.  I did post and update to my list on the main forums though with modified equipment and a respec of my AA to be more inline with Raiding.  (Previously I had been a tanking brigand duoing with a fury)  I'd really appreciate some suggestions on what I can actually upgrade to at say.. 67 and what would be a more ideal set up.</p> <p>Thanks<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p> <hr></blockquote>Sorry bro, wasn't meant to be a bashing.  But the OP did not specify that you were only lvl 65, nor did he specify that you were a tanking brigand (sword and board).</div>

[ag]

<blockquote><hr>Timesquare wrote:<P>brigand can do over 2k just fyi</P><P>avg around 1500</P><p>Message Edited by Timesquare on <span class=date_text>08-31-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:55 PM</span><hr></blockquote>We've gone around this a time or two with people submitted logs to be parsed and so on.To date, no-one has ever produced a log that shows a Brigand doing 2k in a fight. It -may- be possible, but apparently no one is willing to take the time to submit their logs.Also, as group makeup can vary damage output so much, it's what I would call "dangerous" to say that 1500 is average. Average for full fabled/full masters with 100% H&D Mods and 2 classes siphoning hate? Maybe. It'd be fair, timesquare, if YOU parsed at that, if YOU said what your group makeup was, then YOUR average might be that. But average for all Brigands? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />The 800 DPS that most folks in this thread are throwing around is certainly far more average than your claim of a 1500 average, IMO. Even if it's all the Brigands you've ever grouped with or all the Brigands in your guild, I'd say it's still not average for everyone.For me, my DPS can vary between 600 to 1300 depending on the fight, target time, number of mobs, recast timers, having to evade/shadowslip, being dead, (or having to FD) what poison I'm using, and on and on. Last night's results:[Thu Aug 31 18:54:59 2006] 1070.80[Thu Aug 31 18:59:30 2006] 990.84[Thu Aug 31 19:02:37 2006] 870.17[Thu Aug 31 19:03:04 2006] 1029.58[Thu Aug 31 19:06:12 2006] 1100.09[Thu Aug 31 19:07:35 2006] 1003.23[Thu Aug 31 19:10:58 2006] 1155.10[Thu Aug 31 19:13:35 2006] 894.58[Thu Aug 31 19:17:02 2006] 1023.21[Thu Aug 31 19:19:29 2006] 862.25[Thu Aug 31 19:21:51 2006] 1140.98[Thu Aug 31 19:23:18 2006] 846.26[Thu Aug 31 19:25:42 2006] 1025.54[Thu Aug 31 19:27:56 2006] 1092.37[Thu Aug 31 19:31:13 2006] 1338.19[Thu Aug 31 19:33:54 2006] 911.03[Thu Aug 31 19:34:39 2006] 1265.27[Thu Aug 31 19:45:33 2006] 1167.74[Thu Aug 31 19:58:51 2006] 1132.47[Thu Aug 31 20:47:52 2006] 1245.92[Thu Aug 31 21:29:47 2006] 1105.63[Thu Aug 31 21:32:30 2006] 1130.06[Thu Aug 31 21:34:47 2006] 1057.56This was fighting through Lycaeum with a full raid. We killed everything. I don't have the correllation to what fights were what named handy, but we had a Dirge/Inquisitor in our group, and I was at least at 50/50 DPS/Haste the entire evening.EDIT: Just a note that those parse values above were from ACT, and they were not pasted after every fight. Many fights, but not all.<p>Message Edited by agra on <span class=date_text>09-01-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:20 AM</span>

[Danimal24]

<P>I am curious..when using the ACT parser, there is two types of DPS it calcs: DPS and extDPS. Now, please correct me if I am wrong, but I always figured that the DPS column took how much damaged you produced spread over the time you actually spent attacking the encounter (i.e: Tank pulls, fight starts, you attack 10 seconds later, fight last 1 minute, you attack for 50 seconds), and the extDPS was the amount of damage you produced over the entire length of the encounter.</P> <P>So in all these posts about DPS, which type are we talking about? As sometimes there is quite a discrepency between these 2 numbers depending on pull tactics, lag, your MA and the tanks ability to establish aggro.</P> <P>Thanks.</P>

[Sete Soujiro]

EXTdps is when the mob is pulled to when the fight is over, dps is when you start attacking to when the fight is over.  When i talk about dps I talk about EXTdps. My usual group has an illusionist and inquis (envy the people who also get a dirge also).  I can get a zonewide parse of HOS in the mid 1400.  We pull fairly quick, i never use mental breach, i always pop manastone, rods and potions pretty much whenever they are up.  With the illu and inquis there are only 4 named encounters that i dont hit at least 1500 on, chel'drak, tarinax, princes, and vilucidae.

[Gyilok]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> agra wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timesquare wrote:<BR> <BR> <BR> <P>brigand can do over 2k just fyi</P><BR> <P>avg around 1500</P> <P>Message Edited by Timesquare on <SPAN class=date_text>08-31-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:55 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>We've gone around this a time or two with people submitted logs to be parsed and so on.<BR><BR>To date, no-one has ever produced a log that shows a Brigand doing 2k in a fight. It -may- be possible, but apparently no one is willing to take the time to submit their logs.<BR><BR>Also, as group makeup can vary damage output so much, it's what I would call "dangerous" to say that 1500 is average. Average for full fabled/full masters with 100% H&D Mods and 2 classes siphoning hate? Maybe. It'd be fair, timesquare, if YOU parsed at that, if YOU said what your group makeup was, then YOUR average might be that. But average for all Brigands? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR>The 800 DPS that most folks in this thread are throwing around is certainly far more average than your claim of a 1500 average, IMO. Even if it's all the Brigands you've ever grouped with or all the Brigands in your guild, I'd say it's still not average for everyone.<BR><BR>For me, my DPS can vary between 600 to 1300 depending on the fight, target time, number of mobs, recast timers, having to evade/shadowslip, being dead, (or having to FD) what poison I'm using, and on and on. Last night's results:<BR><BR>[Thu Aug 31 18:54:59 2006] 1070.80<BR>[Thu Aug 31 18:59:30 2006] 990.84<BR>[Thu Aug 31 19:02:37 2006] 870.17<BR>[Thu Aug 31 19:03:04 2006] 1029.58<BR>[Thu Aug 31 19:06:12 2006] 1100.09<BR>[Thu Aug 31 19:07:35 2006] 1003.23<BR>[Thu Aug 31 19:10:58 2006] 1155.10<BR>[Thu Aug 31 19:13:35 2006] 894.58<BR>[Thu Aug 31 19:17:02 2006] 1023.21<BR>[Thu Aug 31 19:19:29 2006] 862.25<BR>[Thu Aug 31 19:21:51 2006] 1140.98<BR>[Thu Aug 31 19:23:18 2006] 846.26<BR>[Thu Aug 31 19:25:42 2006] 1025.54<BR>[Thu Aug 31 19:27:56 2006] 1092.37<BR>[Thu Aug 31 19:31:13 2006] 1338.19<BR>[Thu Aug 31 19:33:54 2006] 911.03<BR>[Thu Aug 31 19:34:39 2006] 1265.27<BR>[Thu Aug 31 19:45:33 2006] 1167.74<BR>[Thu Aug 31 19:58:51 2006] 1132.47<BR>[Thu Aug 31 20:47:52 2006] 1245.92<BR>[Thu Aug 31 21:29:47 2006] 1105.63<BR>[Thu Aug 31 21:32:30 2006] 1130.06<BR>[Thu Aug 31 21:34:47 2006] 1057.56<BR><BR>This was fighting through Lycaeum with a full raid. We killed everything. I don't have the correllation to what fights were what named handy, but we had a Dirge/Inquisitor in our group, and I was at least at 50/50 DPS/Haste the entire evening.<BR><BR>EDIT: Just a note that those parse values above were from ACT, and they were not pasted after every fight. Many fights, but not all. <P>Message Edited by agra on <SPAN class=date_text>09-01-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:20 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Allies: (00:57) 1194196 | 20950.81 [Arwenia-Ice Nova-22689]<BR>Stizeyo 123855 | 2172.90  <BR>Jounar 116485 | 2043.60 @ss<BR>Arwenia 97920 | 1717.90 wuzzard<BR>Golddragon 83100 | 1457.90 ranger<BR>Xlaerin 80859 | 1418.58 brig<BR>Jasonx 77729 | 1363.67 conj<BR>Uxzuigal 73954 | 1297.44 @ss<BR>Flaeme 63284 | 1110.25 illu<BR>Scafloc 56858 | 997.51 troub</P> <P>this was a cruor alluvium fight, just to prove 2k is doable, had troub and agitate, with perma capped haste-dps it could get higher</P> <P>also you need to have 50%+ dps and haste pretty much permanently to stay above 1300 constantly on zonewide parses, gotta have good agro on tank and some power regen wont hurt either<BR></P><p>Message Edited by Gyilok on <span class=date_text>09-02-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:26 PM</span>

[Keldo]

One important thing to remember when saying arbitrary numbers like '2k' or '800' is that raid DPS is one of the biggest determinant factors in what everyone parses at.You could, in theory, be doing more damage than someone (say you parse 1000) on a different raid (say they parse 1200) simply because their raid is doing more dps, and your raid is doing less.  Hugely inflated DPS (2000+) requires 16k+ raid DPS, which would just be assumed that everyone would have excellent buffs, player skill and dice rolls on that particular fight.<div></div>

[mikemcmodmi]

<P>That's true, how a brigand parses is dependant on when the fight stops.  My dps will go up to about 1800 dps as a peak as I finish using all my CAs.  Then it will drop to 800 as I'm waiting for them to refresh.  Then it will go back up to 1300-1400 or so as I get the 30 sec recast ones off again.  Then it will drop down a bit and it continues in this pattern.  </P> <P>That's why I like getting high dps mod and haste because it will dip less during the autoattack part of the fight.  They seem to be the highest contributors out of buffs to my dps.  Procs sorta blow imo because they're only about 5% tops of my dps even with the warlock, wizard and conj proc.  Autoattack is important.... when I parse 1100 my autoattack is usually 500 of my dps and 600 of it comes from CAs.</P>

[Manyak]

<DIV>Being an alt, my brigand hasnt had the chance to get much gear....The only fabled stuff he has is his weapon (Frostwrath from Labs) and the DT bracelet with 23% haste. AAs are WIS#4 maxed and STR #4 maxed (still not to 50 yet). I have all the common masters, but none of the good ones like devitalize, dispatch, double up, or whatevr. Parses do vary, but they come out around this on long fights on a single target (1 min+)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Crap group, no real buffage (maybe just a wizzie proc or something like that) - 1.1k</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Some haste or DPS buffs - 1.2k</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Capped or Near capped haste and DPS -1.5k</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>capped haste/DPS, good INT buffage, and troub+coercer deaggro - 1.7k</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All that stuff just mentioned, plus a dirge in the group - 2k</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But most of the time im around 1.4-1.6k each fight. Zone parses always end up bring at least 1k, but they vary alot (slow pulls, wipes, i dunno). Highest zone parse so far was 1.25k.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And btw......<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> mikemcmodmike wrote:<BR> <P>That's true, how a brigand parses is dependant on when the fight stops.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>This is true for every class FYI.</DIV>

[yettii]

<blockquote><hr>agra wrote:<blockquote><hr>Timesquare wrote:<div></div><div></div><p>brigand can do over 2k just fyi</p><p>avg around 1500</p><p>Message Edited by Timesquare on <span class="date_text">08-31-2006</span> <span class="time_text">11:55 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>We've gone around this a time or two with people submitted logs to be parsed and so on.To date, no-one has ever produced a log that shows a Brigand doing 2k in a fight. It -may- be possible, but apparently no one is willing to take the time to submit their logs. Its true, but not like most are thinking.  I'd find it very doubtful that any Brig could keep up DPS to 2k during any Epic trash fight, unless they had a full group of buffers giving them exactly the right & best Haste/DPS/Int/CA damage-boosting/Recast timer quickening buffs.  Like a Coercer, both Bards, and whatnot.  In my guild, most of the heavy-hitting DPS is put in a group by themselves, with maybe one healer. So, lotsa scouts, with little or nothing to buff each other with.  By myself most raid fights, I'll do about 900-1100 DPS, self-buffed.  If I can get anyone to boost me further, great :p  With some power regen, maybe I could use real poison instead of the Mental Breach poisons.  Maybe the DPS scouts should be spread around in the other groups so we all get some kinda buffs, it can only help.  As for parsing, seen us solo?  I soloed a 71^^^ named at 2142 DPS. </blockquote><div></div>

[MilkToa]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> In my guild, most of the heavy-hitting DPS is put in a group by themselves, with maybe one healer. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Who exactly are the heavy hitting DPS? I thought rogues where in the category too.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[wr]

Brigs are more of a DPS/utility class. I don't think that you should ever see a Brig in the same range as a wizzy/warlock/necro, unless he/she isn't debuffing the mob. Our magic/cold/heat debuffs are significant, your Brig will spend about 1/3 of his time debuffing. Also, if the Brig is debuffing properly it has the effect of lowering his own dps and increasing the casters dps.If you ask your Brig to compete with true DPS classes he can just skip the debuffs and focus on doing damage. Your overall group dps will suffer though, and the tank will take more damage, resulting in more power usage by your healers.<div></div>

[Gyilok]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> wroc wrote:<BR>Brigs are more of a DPS/utility class. I don't think that you should ever see a Brig in the same range as a wizzy/warlock/necro, unless he/she isn't debuffing the mob. Our magic/cold/heat debuffs are significant, your Brig will spend about 1/3 of his time debuffing. Also, if the Brig is debuffing properly it has the effect of lowering his own dps and increasing the casters dps.<BR><BR>If you ask your Brig to compete with true DPS classes he can just skip the debuffs and focus on doing damage. Your overall group dps will suffer though, and the tank will take more damage, resulting in more power usage by your healers.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>thats total bs</P> <P>how the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] can a brig skip debuffs if hes focusing on dps? by not using our heaviest hitting ca-s like murderous rake, devitalize, dispatch, master strikes? we got one ca that might make the tank take less dmg, if the mob is not debuffed to cap attack speed wise, but it usually is in raids because of dirges and shamans handling that a lot better</P> <P>there is no such thing as a brigand focusing on dps or debuffing, I pretty much give all I got dps wise but still use secure and shrouded blade whenever they are up even though those ca-s do not benefit my own dps at all, since secure does no damage and I hit for about the same as shrouded blade on auto attack with a much better chance to trigger procs and a high chance to get a double attack</P> <P>dont even get me started about utility, especially compared to a necro</P>

[Jeffmaster]

Almost all our attacks come with a debuff anyways

[mikemcmodmi]

<P>The only way a brigand can focus on one of the other is by AA specs.  A brigand in agi/wis line will outdps a brigand in str/agi or str/wis.  The catch is you miss out on traumatic swipe.</P> <P>On another note I've seen a post with a brigand hitting 1500 dps zonewide in lycaeum.  That's pretty good.  I wonder how they hit that high really since gear doesn't do much for us since we're already capped in str.  Must have a nice weapon and maybe agi/wis with no TS?  No idea really.</P><p>Message Edited by mikemcmodmike on <span class=date_text>09-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:15 AM</span>

[Rokjin]

<P>I'd argue that when talking about high-end numbers, STR/WIS will outdps AGI/WIS. Critical hits scale with weapon, haste, dps, ca quality and pretty much all buffs. Avast Ye ONLY scales with Haste.</P> <P>Not to even mention Avast Ye only adds a set amount (50-80 DPS) while Blackguard's Luck adds a percentage, meaning if your parsing above 1000, your pretty much guranteed to gain more with STR then with AGI.</P> <P>If you consider Sailwind though, that may put things a bit closer, but is much harder to figure out.</P>