dw or 1hander

[PritchMR]

<div></div>ok i can not decide.... what is better for DPS.... DWs or 1hander i know before all the changes that the 1hander was the way to go but now i really have no clueany help would be greatoh also does avast ye accualy proc at the correct rate?thanks<div></div><p>Message Edited by PritchMR on <span class=date_text>06-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:33 AM</span>

[Hiro]

avaste ye sorta blows, before it was like 4% of my autoattack dps, now it's about 3-4% of my total dps.....i think im going to try out int line again most likelyim not sure really which one is better, i know im doing more dps than our other brig, but im not sure if it's just from better spells/skill or whatfrankly. dw only seems a good route if you have leet ones like dirk of grinning horror, and one that's from the princes maybe, but then also, i wouldnt use 1h unless i had the shadow axe-temporarytangarth<div></div>

[Kegofbud]

<DIV>Still not used to seeing this missing sig of yours Tang. lol</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>  A guildmate of ours was trying to tell those of us who are rogues that the 1 hander line was the way to go, because he doesn't understand the the proc rate doesn't go up from double attack anymore. With the changes to Wurmslayer and the procs, it just seems to be a lot of points spent to be failry equal with DW to me. When I last compared DW and WIS line, I did it with average legendary weapons. I didn't have a fabled 1 hander of quality to match with DW fableds, thus a set of legendary to compare. There was a difference of about 15 DR between the best DW and the 1 hander, both weapon styles had procs for damage. On autoattack, it came out really even. The egde to 1 hander was so small, it could be debated that it was just a lucky proc from time to time.  I didn't test in raid setup, just solo. All changes considered now, I think DW is a better choice so I can put the AAs in something with more of an impact. I really like Boot Dagger with Skewer, so Wurmslayer goes to secondary slot. If anything, I would test AGI line again before WIS another time. Just me though. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><p>Message Edited by Kegofbud on <span class=date_text>06-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:26 PM</span>

[The-Fourm-Pirate]

I'm neck and neck with the dual wielding Brigand in raid dps, he averages higher than me but if I get lucky with critical hits (i have 8 points in crits from STR line as well as 8 in double attack) I beat him. Thing is, he has two fabled weapons, Wurmslayer in main hand and he uses Dirk of Negativity or Absolution in off hand. I have one legendary, Spear of the Fire Breath out of AoA. I bet i'll have him beaten hands down when I finally get the fabled 1 hander i've had my eyes on (that only drops on nights I can't raid I swear).

[Timesquare]

<DIV>Right hand of the High priestess rules</DIV>

[Kegofbud]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> The-Fourm-Pirate wrote:<BR> I'm neck and neck with the dual wielding Brigand in raid dps, he averages higher than me but if I get lucky with critical hits (i have 8 points in crits from STR line as well as 8 in double attack) I beat him. Thing is, he has two fabled weapons, Wurmslayer in main hand and he uses Dirk of Negativity or Absolution in off hand. I have one legendary, Spear of the Fire Breath out of AoA. I bet i'll have him beaten hands down when I finally get the fabled 1 hander i've had my eyes on (that only drops on nights I can't raid I swear).<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Interesting Desann. Are your group setups/Master spells comparable? Head to head comparison is so heavily reliant on that make up, as we all know. If you are in the same group for some reason, that would certainly negate that, but I'm assuming you aren't. Would you say you play your character better then him or would you shy away from saying because he lurks the boards too? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Just want to know if you think there could be anything else influencing the parse, other then weild style.</DIV>

[The-Fourm-Pirate]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kegofbud wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> The-Fourm-Pirate wrote:<BR> I'm neck and neck with the dual wielding Brigand in raid dps, he averages higher than me but if I get lucky with critical hits (i have 8 points in crits from STR line as well as 8 in double attack) I beat him. Thing is, he has two fabled weapons, Wurmslayer in main hand and he uses Dirk of Negativity or Absolution in off hand. I have one legendary, Spear of the Fire Breath out of AoA. I bet i'll have him beaten hands down when I finally get the fabled 1 hander i've had my eyes on (that only drops on nights I can't raid I swear).<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Interesting Desann. Are your group setups/Master spells comparable? Head to head comparison is so heavily reliant on that make up, as we all know. If you are in the same group for some reason, that would certainly negate that, but I'm assuming you aren't. Would you say you play your character better then him or would you shy away from saying because he lurks the boards too? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Just want to know if you think there could be anything else influencing the parse, other then weild style.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>He usually gets in the group with better buffs than I do, I'm usually in group 4 unless he isn't raiding. I THINK I have better skills than he does when it comes to adept3/m1 and such. I'm only missing Skewer, Revoke, Subterfuge, Flashy Throw, and defense stance (band of thugs too but do they really matter for anything?). We're about even in skill i'd say, although I have been playing Brigand longer than he has he's been playing the game longer. I don't get to group with him much outside of raiding, and it's kinda hard to look and pay attention to his swings midraid <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</P> <P>It's pretty rare we get put in the same group, but if we have the right melee dpsers on we both will get tossed in group 4 usually, and still we're neck and neck in DPS. I don't know if he uses grandmasters poisons but I usually use the exceptional mental breach because i'm a cheapskate. But before I got the crits out of STR line he whipped me every time, they seem to make a HUGE difference.</P>

[Hiro]

<div><blockquote><hr>The-Fourm-Pirate wrote:<div></div>I'm neck and neck with the dual wielding Brigand in raid dps, he averages higher than me but if I get lucky with critical hits (i have 8 points in crits from STR line as well as 8 in double attack) I beat him. Thing is, he has two fabled weapons, Wurmslayer in main hand and he uses Dirk of Negativity or Absolution in off hand. I have one legendary, Spear of the Fire Breath out of AoA. I bet i'll have him beaten hands down when I finally get the fabled 1 hander i've had my eyes on (that only drops on nights I can't raid I swear).<hr></blockquote>see, our second brigand beat my dps like once out of every 20 encounters when i used DW and he used 1h, which is why he just changed to dw too <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[caeler]

So it sounds like this thread is leaning to DW? I'm relatively new, so don't shoot me, but if the dmg rating of my DW weaps adds up to be more than the dmg rating of my 1-H weapon, doesen't that indicate the DW is a better option? Am I wrong here?<div></div>

[Lein]

<DIV>It all depends on what weapon you have at your disposal, as to which is better, 1h or DW. I have neither great DW or 1h, so I can't personally tell you which is better from experiance.</DIV>

[Crimson Dragon]

<div><blockquote><hr>caeleran wrote:So it sounds like this thread is leaning to DW? I'm relatively new, so don't shoot me, but if the dmg rating of my DW weaps adds up to be more than the dmg rating of my 1-H weapon, doesen't that indicate the DW is a better option? Am I wrong here?<div></div><hr></blockquote>yeah, the real reason people use the 1H is because of the wisdom line of achievement. if you haven't seen them, check out your skills window (L key in game, by default). get lots of double attacks and stuff. generally with damage rating, 2 DW = 1 2H = 1.5 1H. since with a 1H you can use a shield, the damage SHOULD be less than 2 DW or 1 2H.... but for the wis line you get no shield... so it brings it in line with the DW and 2H types.</div>

[AegisCrown]

with the way procs are set up they dont proc of you additional double/triple attack and neither do they proc on an offhand dual wield.  the double attack procs go off often enough that your autoattack dmg is a higher ammount of damage over a fight vs dw.  The other major benefit of using a 1h over Dw is its easier to optimize your damage by getting an autoattack in-between every CA or everyother.  Example using a 1.0 dly weapon with out haste of anykindCA casting time  -- 0.5secCA recover time -- 0.5secautoattack instant with a 1.0 sec dly till next hitCA casting time  -- 0.5sec CA recover time -- 0.5secautoattack instant with a 1.0 sec dly till next hitUsing that chain of autoattacks and combat arts you will find that your dps is higher as there is no wasted time for damage.Now using the same weapon with 100% haste you find that your dmg would be the same.  This is due to the fact that you are waiting 0.5 sec to auto attack.  This makes the optimal base weapon dly 2.0 sec since at 100% haste you autoattack between every CA perfectly. 1.6 dly weapons are not bad as this allows you to compensate for not having 100% haste all of the time.Now for the DW vs 1H comparison using rough fabled figureslets take 2dws at 63 DR this is the equivalent of 126 DR. One 1h is about 77 DR  with the 20% proc rate from Freehand Reversal and the 52% proc rate from Unencumbrance this gives you a 72% chance to double attack.  so that a 1H at 77DR with 72% to double is 132.4 DR a total of 6 points higher than using 2 DW.  This difference is actually a little bigger as there is a chance for the both procs to go off on the same hit.I hope this clears some of it up<div></div>

[caeler]

That helps a good amoutn, what does one do at lower levels wher the chance of having a proccing weapon is less and the wisdom AA is not available (say lvl < 25 or so)? At that point do i go by the dmg stats or try to find a good 1-h + shield? Seems odd to me for a brigand to use a shield, but I may just be naieve.<div></div>

[AegisCrown]

ill see if i cant mentor later and find out, ill update this post when i do<div></div>

[Wardyn]

<DIV>Interesting. A friend of mine swares back and forth that with a shield, a 1 hander, and the right AA's, he not only has better  DPS than DW, but he is a much better soloer. He often brags about having killed named I simply cannot. I may have to read into what AA lines to follow while looking for a decent shield. :smileyhappy:</DIV>

[Crimson Dragon]

<div><blockquote><hr>caeleran wrote:That helps a good amoutn, what does one do at lower levels wher the chance of having a proccing weapon is less and the wisdom AA is not available (say lvl < 25 or so)? At that point do i go by the dmg stats or try to find a good 1-h + shield? Seems odd to me for a brigand to use a shield, but I may just be naieve.<div></div><hr></blockquote><i><u><font color="#ffff00">weapon procs</font></u> </i>from your off-hand dual wield will still proc... it's spell procs and offensive stance procs that will only go off from your main hand attack.</div>

[Crimson Dragon]

<div><blockquote><hr>Wardyn wrote:<div>Interesting. A friend of mine swares back and forth that with a shield, a 1 hander, and the right AA's, he not only has better  DPS than DW, but he is a much better soloer. He often brags about having killed named I simply cannot. I may have to read into what AA lines to follow while looking for a decent shield. :smileyhappy:</div><hr></blockquote>depends on the weapons.... the stamina line gives a base increase to dps when a roundshield is equipped. if he also has str with the crit % upped, and his one-hander is fabled and his dual wields are only treasured or mediocre legendary, then maybe he does more with a 1H.</div>

[Wardyn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Crimson Dragon wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wardyn wrote:<BR> <DIV>Interesting. A friend of mine swares back and forth that with a shield, a 1 hander, and the right AA's, he not only has better  DPS than DW, but he is a much better soloer. He often brags about having killed named I simply cannot. I may have to read into what AA lines to follow while looking for a decent shield. :smileyhappy:</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>depends on the weapons.... the stamina line gives a base increase to dps when a roundshield is equipped. if he also has str with the crit % upped, and his one-hander is fabled and his dual wields are only treasured or mediocre legendary, then maybe he does more with a 1H.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I see. I'm uncertain of his weapons, but I can see how the extra mitigation of the shield in conjuction with the equal (at least) damage from the 1 hander would aid in his soloing. Interesting.<p>Message Edited by Wardyn on <span class=date_text>06-29-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:51 AM</span>

[Mazrik85]

<P>Im also wondering about 1handed weapons.  I like DW and all that but it seems in todays games either you DW, use a 2hander or us a 1h/shield.  From an RP stand point they completly left out the fact that some people are masters with 1 sword, and dont use a shield.  We arnt all Drizzt wannabes! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>I am only level 26, and so far I am loving the Brigand class.  Is it just not reliable to go 1handed until you have alot of WIS AA points?  At 26 I still only have 2 AAs heh (cant figure out how to earn them reliably) so Im not gaining any benefit from AAs yet really.  Should a lowbie character just stick to DW for now and switch later?  It seems to me that the difference between 1h and DW is super small which leaves it more to personal preference and looks.  </P><p>Message Edited by Mazrik85 on <span class=date_text>06-29-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:17 PM</span>

[Jida]

<div><blockquote><hr>Mazrik85 wrote:<div></div>*Snip*<p> Is it just not reliable to go 1handed until you have alot of WIS AA points? <b>!</b></p><p> At 26 I still only have 2 AAs heh (cant figure out how to earn them reliably) so Im not gaining any benefit from AAs yet really.  <b></b></p><p>Should a lowbie character just stick to DW for now and switch later? <b>!</b></p><p>*snip* </p><hr></blockquote>answers areYesDo questsYes</div>

[Mazrik85]

That was fast.. thanks alot Jida <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[mikemcmodmi]

<P>I wouldn't dream of going 1hander until you have a lot of AA points.  Using a 1 hander is only good when you go down the wisdom AA line, and I mean far down.  You end up getting a 70% chance to double attack with a 1 hander so it becomes almost equivalent to dws or better depending on what you can find.</P> <P>As you're building you're best off i believe going down the strength line working towards melee crits.  Then once you've maxed melee crits you can play with other stuff.  </P> <P>I'm wisdom line atm with a 1 hander but only because I have frostwrath (70% chance to double attack with a 78 damage raiting).  Once I get some good dws I'll be switching back because it seems all wisdom does is let you use a 1 hander to be in the same position you'd be in with dws for 20 AA points.</P>

[Jida]

<div></div><div>bah.. correction.. do minimum BLUE quests (even if you have to mentor to make them blue before final kill / turn in)Green ones dont count <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><blockquote><hr>Mazrik85 wrote:<div></div>That was fast.. thanks alot Jida <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><hr></blockquote></div><p>Message Edited by Jida on <span class=date_text>06-29-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:27 PM</span>

[Wardyn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jida wrote:<BR> <DIV>bah.. correction.. do minimum BLUE quests (even if you have to mentor to make them blue before final kill / turn in)<BR>Green ones dont count <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mazrik85 wrote:<BR> That was fast.. thanks alot Jida <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Jida on <SPAN class=date_text>06-29-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:27 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>Plus if you are just turning 20 when AA's begin, the quests have to be a minimum of level 20. Meaning if you are level 20 and do a level 19 blue quest, it still will not count towards AA exp.  The quests (and named) have to be level 20 and up. <BR></P>

[Jida]

<div><blockquote><hr>Wardyn wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Jida wrote: <div></div> <div>bah.. correction.. do minimum BLUE quests (even if you have to mentor to make them blue before final kill / turn in)Green ones dont count <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <blockquote> <hr> Mazrik85 wrote: <div></div>That was fast.. thanks alot Jida <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <hr> </blockquote></div> <p>Message Edited by Jida on <span class="date_text">06-29-2006</span> <span class="time_text">06:27 PM</span> </p><hr> </blockquote> <p>Plus if you are just turning 20 when AA's begin, the quests have to be a minimum of level 20. Meaning if you are level 20 and do a level 19 blue quest, it still will not count towards AA exp.  The quests (and named) have to be level 20 and up. </p><hr></blockquote>Good catch.. i keep forgetting about that cuz I was well above 20 when aa's were released.</div>

[Wardyn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jida wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wardyn wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jida wrote:<BR> <DIV>bah.. correction.. do minimum BLUE quests (even if you have to mentor to make them blue before final kill / turn in)<BR>Green ones dont count <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mazrik85 wrote:<BR> That was fast.. thanks alot Jida <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Jida on <SPAN class=date_text>06-29-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:27 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>Plus if you are just turning 20 when AA's begin, the quests have to be a minimum of level 20. Meaning if you are level 20 and do a level 19 blue quest, it still will not count towards AA exp.  The quests (and named) have to be level 20 and up. <BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Good catch.. i keep forgetting about that cuz I was well above 20 when aa's were released.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Same here actually. I just have a friend that grinds quests that passed this along. He also said teir 2 quests (Commonlands at least) wouldn't grant AA exp regardless if they were level 20 or not. I actually tested this one, and none of my Commonland quests granted me AA exp. I guess the best advice would be to head to Nek or TS at level 20, and perhaps even turn off the combat exp for a few levels. However, mentoring would be a better decision if possible.

[Mazrik85]

<DIV>Are AA's something you just gain faster the older you get?  I assume doing level 40+ quests ect are worth alot of AA exp.  </DIV>

[Riversideblues]

<div><blockquote><hr>Mazrik85 wrote:<div>Are AA's something you just gain faster the older you get?  I assume doing level 40+ quests ect are worth alot of AA exp.  </div><hr></blockquote>generally it's all the same depending on what colour the quest cons to you</div>

[Jeffmaster]

Dw look so cool when you are not fighting!