Difference between hate and threat level?

[Laereneth]

<DIV>I think I have a general idea what the difference between hate and threat level are, but I'm not seeing exactly how they apply to each other.  For example, our confound advesaries line lowers hate x amount and lowers us 1 threat level.  If my understanding is correct, the threat level would bump us down the mob's hate list one notch.  But what if the following example exists:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Brigand has 800 hate and 1st on mobs list</DIV> <DIV>Tank has 500 hate</DIV> <DIV>Healer has 300 hate</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If the above skill procs, then say it bumps us down 102 at level 17, which takes our hate to 698, and bumps us down one threat level.  It would now look like this:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tank 500 hate</DIV> <DIV>Brigand 698 hate</DIV> <DIV>Healer 300 hate</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But we'd still have higher hate that the tank, wouldn't that just bump us right back up to 1st on the list without us doing anything more?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Disclaimer:  Yes I know we have other tools to reduce our agro and yes you should manage your agro so the first example above doesn't happen, I'm just using this example to understand the mechanics and the numbers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks for your input!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[NemaLVey]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Laereneth wrote:<BR> <DIV>I think I have a general idea what the difference between hate and threat level are, but I'm not seeing exactly how they apply to each other.  For example, our confound advesaries line lowers hate x amount and lowers us 1 threat level.  If my understanding is correct, the threat level would bump us down the mob's hate list one notch.  But what if the following example exists:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Brigand has 800 hate and 1st on mobs list</DIV> <DIV>Tank has 500 hate</DIV> <DIV>Healer has 300 hate</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If the above skill procs, then say it bumps us down 102 at level 17, which takes our hate to 698, and bumps us down one threat level.  It would now look like this:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tank 500 hate</DIV> <DIV>Brigand 698 hate</DIV> <DIV>Healer 300 hate</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But we'd still have higher hate that the tank, wouldn't that just bump us right back up to 1st on the list without us doing anything more?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Disclaimer:  Yes I know we have other tools to reduce our agro and yes you should manage your agro so the first example above doesn't happen, I'm just using this example to understand the mechanics and the numbers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks for your input!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#cc99ff>Actually, what happens is your threat postion changes first, dethreat happens after ... </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc99ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc99ff>First your postion is dropped below the tank, making the aggro set up look like this...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc99ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Tank 500 hate</DIV> <DIV>Brigand 499 hate</DIV> <DIV>Healer 300 hate</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc99ff>Then your threat is lessened by 102...</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>Tank 500 hate</DIV> <DIV>Brigand 397 hate</DIV> <DIV>Healer 300 hate</DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc99ff>.... thats how it goes.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV></DIV><p>Message Edited by NemaLVey on <span class=date_text>05-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:34 PM</span>

[Laereneth]

<DIV>Thanks!  That makes sense.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now does the Ruse line work the same way in reverse?  Since it bumps you up 2 threat levels, if there is only 3 people in a group, you should automatically grab agro when you use it.  Is that correct?</DIV>

[Grim0]

That aspect of the skill appears bugged and does not work.<div></div>

[Crimson Dragon]

<div><blockquote><hr>Grim001 wrote:That aspect of the skill <b><font color="#ffff00">[still]</font></b> appears bugged and does not work.<div></div><hr></blockquote></div>

[zooeyk]

<P>Wow! I was just thinking about this very issue not too long ago.  If Ruse works in the same way (reversed, though), it seems understandable why it doesn't work.</P> <P>Here is an example:</P> <P>Tank 700 hate<BR>Healer 500 hate<BR>Brigand 300 hate</P> <P>Brigand casts Ruse, (theoretically) bumping him up two threat positions.</P> <P>Brigand 701 hate<BR>Tank 700 hate<BR>Healer 500 hate</P> <P>Now I don't know about the reaction times of mobs, but it seems unlikely that the mob would turn its full attention on the Brigand enough to make a melee attack before the tank could gain the tiny amount of hate it needs to regain aggro. This would explain why Ruse never works right, and would account for those <EM>very</EM> rare occasions (so I've heard) where it actually manages to get the aggro (i.e. the mob manages to get an attack off before the tank retakes aggro).</P> <P>If my assumptions are correct, then the simple solution to the Ruse problem is to add hate gain, enough to keep us in the lead long enough to get hit.</P> <P>Now I could be way off, but I've honestly never seen a discussion on the <EM>reason</EM> Ruse doesn't work -- just lots of (valid) complaining that it doesn't.  So I thought it would be interesting to see what others think of my idea.</P>

[Crimson Dragon]

sounds quite possible.however, the mob should still switch targets as soon as the ability goes off (even if it doesn't turn and get to attack, it should still switch target to you)i haven't tested it (as i just read it) but i do remember being in a duo with a healer at one point when i lost aggro. healer took no action and i used ruse. it should have turned back to me, but instead kept gunning for the healer. so i dunno. i guess it's possible that the healer had a recurrent hate gain just from group buffs... but c'mon what's the point of the +2 positions if you're gonna lose it automatically like that anyway. <span>:smileytongue:</span><div></div>