Brigand vs. Bruiser - need a lil info

[Idrasti]

<div>I take it that a Brig will out DPS a Bruiser simply cuz he's a scout class... right?  Well, I guess my question is:  How much more dmg will a Brig do over a Bruiser?  And does the Bruisers mitigation, higher defensive nature, etc. make up for his shortcoming on dps compared to the Brig?</div><div> </div><div>I'm looking for a char to roll on PvP server.  I solo the vast majority of the time (PvP, PvE - everything).  I want something melee with high dmg output, aimed at 1v1 fights (don't care about AE).  Bruiser was actually my first choice, but the more I read forums, the more it seems like trying to play anything but a scout class is going to be a headache.</div><div> </div><div>As a Bruiser, how would I typically fair against the countless Scout classes out there in PvP land?  Ppl say that not being able to catch runners is a problem, etc.  Is this reason enough to pick the Brig over the Bruiser?</div><div> </div><div>I've narrowed it down to these 2 classes.  I'm really just torn between the 2 and dunno what to roll and stick with!  Any help is greatly appreciated!~</div><div></div>

[DarkMirrax]

<div></div>:smileysad:<blockquote><hr>Idrasticl wrote:<div>I take it that a Brig will out DPS a Bruiser simply cuz he's a scout class... right?  Well, I guess my question is:  How much more dmg will a Brig do over a Bruiser?  And does the Bruisers mitigation, higher defensive nature, etc. make up for his shortcoming on dps compared to the Brig?</div><div> </div><div>I'm looking for a char to roll on PvP server.  I solo the vast majority of the time (PvP, PvE - everything).  I want something melee with high dmg output, aimed at 1v1 fights (don't care about AE).  Bruiser was actually my first choice, but the more I read forums, the more it seems like trying to play anything but a scout class is going to be a headache.</div><div> </div><div>As a Bruiser, how would I typically fair against the countless Scout classes out there in PvP land?  Ppl say that not being able to catch runners is a problem, etc.  Is this reason enough to pick the Brig over the Bruiser?</div><div> </div><div>I've narrowed it down to these 2 classes.  I'm really just torn between the 2 and dunno what to roll and stick with!  Any help is greatly appreciated!~</div><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Check my sig <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Brigands do a lot more damage than brusiers w/o a doubt all scouts will allways outdamage a tank .. doesnt mean a brusiers is useless beacuse they arnt and they do own with mez , fears , stuns , stilfes etc etc they do decent damage but cannot catch runners and dont have invis i would reccomend brigand ... i have  a swashie (practically the same) and a low lvl brig (23)</p>

[Red Whisper]

Heya. Brigands will outdmg bruisers hands down. BUT and this is a big BUT. Bruisers get an immunity to stun spell at higher levels so they will be able to kick ur [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] whileyoutryto stun. Bruisersdo alot of dmg also, not asmuch as a brig, but do to the stun immunity, they would be a better choice for pvp

[RyfeEnd]

<div></div><div></div><p>To be honest, threads of this nature are virtually pointless; for one to ask the question "which is a better class?" It is strictly based on how the individual person plays, what they enjoy, and what they can excell at.  To ask which class is better is almost pointless, because eventually the community is going to label all the classes and one will be at the bottom, but I guarantee that there will be someone who plays that so called "awful" class to perfection and destroys people with it.</p><p>So what you should do, is weigh out the pro's and con's for each class that you see, and then choose.  Bruisers do not get hit much, can do a decent ammount of damage, have some nice resists etc.</p><p>Brigs are stealthy, can not take a lot of damage, have a nice damage output, and some really nice debuffs etc.</p><p>You just need to decide on how you want to play, you either want to stand up and take on the brunt of attacks, or snoop around, and kill the unsuspecting victim or two.  What do you think you will be more opt to succeed at? thats what you need to ask. </p><p> </p><p>Oh, one more thing, about scouts catching people, it makes no difference being a scout when you are engaged in combat, you run at 100% just like everyone else, Does not help one bit.  Only time it helps is if you are trying to catch someone you have not engaged yet.</p><p>Message Edited by RyfeEnder on <span class="date_text">03-27-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:40 AM</span></p>

[Kegofbud]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>RyfeEnder wrote:<div></div><div></div><p>To be honest, threads of this nature are virtually pointless; for one to ask the question "which is a better class?" It is strictly based on how the individual person plays, what they enjoy, and what they can excell at.  To ask which class is better is almost pointless, because eventually the community is going to label all the classes and one will be at the bottom, but I guarantee that there will be someone who plays that so called "awful" class to perfection and destroys people with it.</p><p>So what you should do, is weigh out the pro's and con's for each class that you see, and then choose.  Bruisers do not get hit much, can do a decent ammount of damage, have some nice resists etc.</p><p>Brigs are stealthy, can not take a lot of damage, have a nice damage output, and some really nice debuffs etc.</p><p>You just need to decide on how you want to play, you either want to stand up and take on the brunt of attacks, or snoop around, and kill the unsuspecting victim or two.  What do you think you will be more opt to succeed at? thats what you need to ask. </p><p> </p><p>Oh, one more thing, about scouts catching people, it makes no difference being a scout when you are engaged in combat, you run at 100% just like everyone else, Does not help one bit.  Only time it helps is if you are trying to catch someone you have not engaged yet.</p><p>Message Edited by RyfeEnder on <span class="date_text">03-27-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:40 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I beg to differ. It does matter. If I throw Master 1 Entangle on you while you are running away, I can run circles around you at combat speed. Brigands can stop any runner in combat, with either our snares or Flashy Throw line. The problem is hitting a Bruiser/Monk with melee hits.

[Sete Soujiro]

<div>At high lvl's, in short fights a bruiser will outdamage a brigand</div>

[Kegofbud]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sete Soujiro wrote:<div>At high lvl's, in short fights a bruiser will outdamage a brigand</div><hr></blockquote>Situational at best. If both classes have all their CA skills up at the start,  you'd have to beat me to make me a believer. You have to weigh in the person's skill with their class, who has the agro in the fight, if any timers are still down, etc. If it is a heroic encounter with a group of mobs, you then have the advantage - since our AE damage is pitiful. Also, we are highly positional. Any encounter that we cannot be directly behind the mob, including multi-mob target changes, hurts our parse. Put us in an encounter where there is one target, easily accessed from behind, all of our timers up, and we'll outdamage a lot more classes then you think. Like I said, depends on the encounter who would parse higher. My new respect for single mob, situational damage goes to the well played Necromancer.

[Aral]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sete Soujiro wrote:<div>At high lvl's, in short fights a bruiser will outdamage a brigand</div><hr></blockquote><p>mmmmm no.   I play both, though honestly I'm not that interested in leveling my 60 bruiser any longer, other alts much more fun.  By short fights I assume you mean PvE action - and the only place a bruiser will come close in a pve "short fight" is vs a large multi-mob encounter dropped with savage blows / bonecrusher line, which you can only do every 90 seconds.  Brigand with Negotiation line and double up is easily the AE dps equal there, and can use the AE every 30s, Double every 60s.  Brigands simply have more hits, and bigger hits, and can debuff their mobs to amplify the damage. </p><p>Vs single targets it's not even remotely close, a brigand can drill down a ^^^ over twice as fast as a bruiser.  When soloing instances in DoF days this was so apparent, especially versus caster mobs... even with master self heal and resists and mitigation my bruiser would die vs nuker heroics since she couldn't kill em fast enough. </p><p>When I've dueled bruisers the key has been to trick them into using close mind / stone deaf then snare kiting the duration off.  It sucks to do this then end up missing all the stuns and debuffs due to deflects though <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  + piercing can only do so much.   Thank innoruk for poison procs and 9 second bows. </p>

[Raz]

<div></div><p>about bruisers catching runners..</p><p>what if a bruiser were to use sonic fists to teleport back close then hit a kidney punch when there?  pretty nice damage between the 2. also bruisers first aa is an in combat run speed increase of 5%.. not much but might help. also if you were to take mantis leap.. another way to catch someone. not sure if these are very effective or better than the brigand abilities but just something to think about...</p>

[StonyStratford]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Kegofbud wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sete Soujiro wrote:<div>At high lvl's, in short fights a bruiser will outdamage a brigand</div><hr></blockquote>Situational at best. If both classes have all their CA skills up at the start,  you'd have to beat me to make me a believer. You have to weigh in the person's skill with their class, who has the agro in the fight, if any timers are still down, etc. If it is a heroic encounter with a group of mobs, you then have the advantage - since our AE damage is pitiful. Also, we are highly positional. Any encounter that we cannot be directly behind the mob, including multi-mob target changes, hurts our parse. Put us in an encounter where there is one target, easily accessed from behind, all of our timers up, and we'll outdamage a lot more classes then you think. Like I said, depends on the encounter who would parse higher. My new respect for single mob, situational damage goes to the well played Necromancer.<hr></blockquote><p>No no, no no, no.</p><p>Brigands just look cool. They can spam all their Combat Arts on a moss snake, and still die all the time, as the snake is still at 50%. We are even worse for PvP as no-one sits there and waits to take it from behind.</p><p>Swashies are so much better. I wish I rolled one instead,</p>

[Sete Soujiro]

<div></div><-- I'm a brigand, and yes on short raid fights my bruiser friend can beat me dps wise.  I average anywhere between 700 -1500 dps on raid targets.  I have no problems substaining 800 dps on long fights, but alot of the trash mobs a bruiser can spike his dmg in the 900-1100 (20-30 sec) after that his dps goes down the drain.

[Arvas]

<div></div><div>700-1500 dps? I find that very VERY hard to believe.....</div><div> </div><div>I'm lvl 69 with around 580 str self buffed and have every combat art T-6 threw T-7 at adept 3 or master and can go full burn on a raid mob and peek at around 800ish DPS........</div><div> </div><div>Problem i'm having with your statement is that even with elude,buffudle....and shadow slip at master 1 if I remain at the 800ish dps lvl i'm gonna get aggro and fast.....thats with spamming deaggro combat arts and using the deaggro poision.......</div>

[Kegofbud]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Razal wrote:<div></div><p>about bruisers catching runners..</p><p>what if a bruiser were to use sonic fists to teleport back close then hit a kidney punch when there?  pretty nice damage between the 2. also bruisers first aa is an in combat run speed increase of 5%.. not much but might help. also if you were to take mantis leap.. another way to catch someone. not sure if these are very effective or better than the brigand abilities but just something to think about...</p><hr></blockquote><p>Not sure if you are talking about catching a brigand or just a fleeing player. I'm sure a lot of classes have a good way to catch a runner. The run speed increase of 5%, I wouldn't count much on getting away from someone with because a 5% after a 71% reduction snare isn't anything.</p><p>As far as our AE offense, it is awful. Most fighters can out DPS us in battles where there are a lot of mobs. Take the small drakotas in Halls of Fate, for instance. If we go in to that little pit of 3 groups of whelps (totalling about 24 mobs), it's not uncommon to only out DPS the healers. Doubling up on our horrible AE isn't enough to keep up with any berzerker or brawler class. It's impossible to position behind those kinds of encounters to use back attacks because you can't tell which mob is highlighted or facing which direction. Too many people distribute agro with AEs and the tank can't hold 3 encounters. lol Always makes a brigand look bad. We are definitely single target damage.</p>

[Sete Soujiro]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Arvas wrote:<div></div><div>700-1500 dps? I find that very VERY hard to believe.....</div><div> </div><div>I'm lvl 69 with around 580 str self buffed and have every combat art T-6 threw T-7 at adept 3 or master and can go full burn on a raid mob and peek at around 800ish DPS........</div><div> </div><div>Problem i'm having with your statement is that even with elude,buffudle....and shadow slip at master 1 if I remain at the 800ish dps lvl i'm gonna get aggro and fast.....thats with spamming deaggro combat arts and using the deaggro poision.......</div><hr></blockquote>dps and aggro is all about group makeup.  If you having problems with aggro doin 800 dps, there is something wrong with your mt group setup or your dps group setup

[Hoopak]

<div></div>Ill tell you what...  I fought an even level monk yesturday at level 17 and i barely scratched him.  But i can eat mages and rangers higher level than me.  Rock paper scisors it is then.  Last time i stay to fight a warrior.

[The-Fourm-Pirate]

<blockquote><hr>Sete Soujiro wrote:<div></div><-- I'm a brigand, and yes on short raid fights my bruiser friend can beat me dps wise.  I average anywhere between 700 -1500 dps on raid targets.  I have no problems substaining 800 dps on long fights, but alot of the trash mobs a bruiser can spike his dmg in the 900-1100 (20-30 sec) after that his dps goes down the drain.<hr></blockquote>There's no [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]in way you're doing anywhere near 1500dps, I could see maybe 900 under perfect conditions on a green epic, personally I average around 400-600 on yellow/orange epics.

[DaLurk]

<blockquote>There's no [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]in way you're doing anywhere near 1500dps, I could see maybe 900 under perfect conditions on a green epic, personally I average around 400-600 on yellow/orange epics.<hr size="2" width="100%"></blockquote>Numbers means nothing.Depends the parser you use and the way you fight.Let your group pull an even con mob, wait until it's 5%hp.Attack On (parser starts), Stun+ (Debilitate+Dispatch+Chasten) x Double-Up, add some other nasty CAs.Mob dies in seconds (parser stops).And voilà ... just congrats yourself about a nice 2000 or 3000dps. Easy.If mob is Epic instead of Heroic, may be tricky, just wait 1% hp <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Shidonya]

<div></div>Heh name your band of thugs with your name to increase your dps hehehe kinda kewl. That aside duoing with a dirge and his buffs on blue con ^^^ I have had around 1400 dps but like they said I couldn't hold that on a raid mob. This fight with the blue con was over fairly quickly even though I did go through all my ca's and I self buffed Ruthless cunning and Deciet but the Dirge buff made a huge difference.

[Kegofbud]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>DaLurker wrote:<blockquote>There's no [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]in way you're doing anywhere near 1500dps, I could see maybe 900 under perfect conditions on a green epic, personally I average around 400-600 on yellow/orange epics.<hr size="2" width="100%"></blockquote>Numbers means nothing.Depends the parser you use and the way you fight.Let your group pull an even con mob, wait until it's 5%hp.Attack On (parser starts), Stun+ (Debilitate+Dispatch+Chasten) x Double-Up, add some other nasty CAs.Mob dies in seconds (parser stops).And voilà ... just congrats yourself about a nice 2000 or 3000dps. Easy.If mob is Epic instead of Heroic, may be tricky, just wait 1% hp <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>True. There are a lot of ways to spike your DPS for a parcer. With the speed of our cast timers, no problem. Double up is instant,</p><p>so toss it after Restrain and Thrust. For me, that's 3k in 2 quick hits, and a double up instantly to 6k. Heck, pull an undercon mob and Subterfuge. Bam, 3-4k DPS.</p><p>Message Edited by Kegofbud on <span class="date_text">03-29-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:00 PM</span></p>

[Aral]

<div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr><p>DaLurker wrote:</p><p>Numbers means nothing.Depends the parser you use and the way you fight.Let your group pull an even con mob, wait until it's 5%hp.Attack On (parser starts), Stun+ (Debilitate+Dispatch+Chasten) x Double-Up, add some other nasty CAs.Mob dies in seconds (parser stops).And voilà ... just congrats yourself about a nice 2000 or 3000dps. Easy.If mob is Epic instead of Heroic, may be tricky, just wait 1% hp <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Numbers do not "mean nothing" (though, as a math teacher I might be biased a little), they are informative, and analysis of the numbers tells you a great deal about a player and / or classes' capability. </p><p>DPS is a ratio, damage done over time.  Anyone who is serious about analyzing damage done over time and comparing with other classes will realize that the denominator needs to be just slightly larger than a 15 second fight to have a meaningful comparison.  Aggregate damage done over the course of an entire evening of group or raid play might be a good start.  It's also obvious and unnecessary to state that comparisons require confounding variables to be controlled, such as who you are grouped with, what buffs are on, etc.  With these "duh" facts in mind, brigands really DO cause far more damage to a mob over time than a bruiser - in short fights, in long fights, vs single targets and vs multiple targets, tanking or behind the mob. </p><p>The <em>only</em> case where a bruiser can come close is a. it's an ae encounter b. both blue AE's are up (the major one being a 90 second recast) c. that 90 second AE doesn't miss, since half the damage relies in the first hits landing. </p><p>A brigand can still in fact supercede the bruiser in this situation every time - a doubled up negotation has a much higher minimum damage and a slightly lower maximum damage, and takes far less time to complete, leaving time to finish the remaining mob hp's with restrain, revoke, despairing, etc.   Even if you land zero backstabs and are fighting 8 mobs, you can and should still outdo the bruiser.  A berserker is a different story - but again only if some long-recast CAs are up.  Brigand arts have much tighter minimum/maximum damage intervals... it's common for bruiser CA's to land but hit the low end of the damage range, and that range drops _very_ low. </p><p>If you're really impressed by the occasional silly number by a bruiser, try playing one to see the other side of that coin.  The main thing you'll notice going from brigand to bruiser is the sparse number of good damage CAs.  You spend a great deal of time as a bruiser waiting for arts to come back up and autoattacking... brigands (scouts in general) simply have more damage tools.  This is by design, since the bruiser arts are partly taunts, mez, self heal, mitigation increase, and fear. </p><p>Again, on single target or 2 targets, it's not even remotely close. </p>

[Peersu]

<div>Talking about this sort of thing is not such a good idea <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  it'll just bring the nerf bat down on us quicker.  However...</div><div> </div><div>I do not parse heroic fights, as they are too quick to give an accurate rating of dps classes.  My original character is a bruiser, an outstanding burst damage class, but due to long recast timers, bruiser dps drops considerably over longer fights.  On singletarget raid encounters, there are only a few occasions that i now (as a brigand) get out dps'd, and it's always by a well played necro.</div><div> </div><div>As stated above by a previous poster, group makeup is key.  There is no reason for a brigand to be in any other group than the melee dps group of your guild's raid.  Just as an example, this is the group that i was in today:</div><div> </div><div>1 Inquisitor (fury works great too with their primal fury upgrade)</div><div>1 Dirge</div><div>1 Berserker</div><div>1 Paladin</div><div>1 Illusionist</div><div>1 Brigand (me)</div><div> </div><div>Inquisitors give a constant near 30% dps buff, plus the dirge's 40ish.  70+ haste from haste item and illusionist, Battle Fury from berserker (which is constantly up) adds another 25ish haste/dps mod.  Throw in the occasional proc from rings and you're sitting at just about 100/100 the entire raid.  Dont forget about all the procs that are going off from buffs and poisons.  How do you deal with agro?  Amends from the paladin works wonders.  In fact, I got that paladin killed a few times when agro went to her <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Easily saw 1200-1400ish dps on epic encounters without worrying about getting myself killed.  Throw in the WIS line and a certain 2h wep that we can use and you'll see close to 2Kish dps.  It's not an "overpowered" class, it's the smart makeup of groups. </div><div> </div><div>Throw any other melee class in that group and you'll see their numbers skyrocket as well.  Our class offers great dps, but survivability and the ability to keep that mob debuffed is our role. </div><div> </div><div>To answer the OP's question, when a brigand and a bruiser are similarly geared, are buffed the same, and are working on a single target mob that will take longer than 15 seconds to kill, the brigand always wins.  But they do damage differently.  On my bruiser, i made a macro button that spammed all of my combat arts for raids.  I just sat there spamming the #1 button.  You cant do that with brigands.  You want a good easy class to do well in pvp situations?  roll a bruiser, they are easier to play.  You want a good pvp class that takes skill?  roll a brigand.  but then again, the gameplay through the 2 classes is totally different and it all depends on how YOU want to play.  There is no 1 set ultimate class.</div>

[TheSummoned]

<span><blockquote><hr>Peersu wrote:<div> On my bruiser, i made a macro button that spammed all of my combat arts for raids.  I just sat there spamming the #1 button.<font color="#ffcc00"></font>You cant do that with brigands. <font color="#ffcc00">Aye, you need atleast 2 buttons! <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font>  You want a good easy class to do well in pvp situations?  roll a bruiser, they are easier to play.  You want a good pvp class that takes skill?  roll a brigand.  but then again, the gameplay through the 2 classes is totally different and it all depends on how YOU want to play.  There is no 1 set ultimate class.</div><hr></blockquote>Honestly, I find playing my rogue to be much easier than playing my bruiser even if I have twice as many levels behind me with my bruiser and even if I've soloed some crazy stuff out there with her...</span><div></div>

[NemaLVey]

<div></div><p><font color="#cc99ff">This is really interesting and informative as.....  mmmmm I love pudding.</font></p><p><font color="#cc99ff"></font> </p><p><font color="#cc99ff">/cobbers all you momos</font></p>

[Mathe]

<div></div><p>Low level Brigand is pretty easy, but that is because you don't get most of the more interesting and difficult to use CAs until later on in the game. Bruiser doesn't really change much from the first 20 levels, they get a few different things, but nothing that completely alters how to play them. From a solo perspective, low level Brigands also don't get "useless" abilities like Taunts either, which are essentially functionless when not serving as a tank for Bruiser.</p><p>Bruisers can do quite a lot of DPS initially, but they tend to even out in longer fights. Even so, if you are parsing a Brigand and Bruiser at the same time, you do have to realize that the Brigand is also improving the Bruisers damage, but not vice versa, so the numbers will always be inherently flawed. You either have to parse them seperately, where other factors might not be even, or together where the Bruiser is benefitting from Brigand debuffs.</p>

[Radigazt]

<P>For PvP, Brigands are way better than Bruisers.  Bruisers  had their procs nerfed with the Rangers proc nerf ... but never received a boatload of buffs to compensate like the Rangers did.  Now, Brigands do way more damage than a Bruiser, usually between 50% and 150% more damage.  Brigands get chain armor so they have better mitigation, and still have good hit points, but the Bruiser is going to take more attacks because of his significantly higher hit points and his better avoidance.  </P> <P>The reason Brigands are better though is this ... Bruisers can take a hit, and can do decent DPS ... but that's all they can do.  They used to do well in duels because they could stunlock, but that's been totally changed for the PvP servers.  Bruisers 7 second stuns have been reduced to 1.8 seconds and now after they stun someone, that person gets a 3.6 seconds where they cannot be stunned at all.  Meaning, when the Bruiser gets someone low on health, that person just runs away ... and there's almost nothing the Bruiser can do about it.  So, Bruisers don't kill many people 1v1 unless their foe is stupid.  </P> <P>Brigands get Track, Evac, Stealth, Poisons, and Snares.  These all mean that the Brigand knows who is around, gets the first attack, always escapes, is able to DOT and do good ranged damage and snare them to prevent them from getting away.  Really, Brigands do everything you'd want to do in PvP.  Also, Brigands have fantastic debuffs, so their DPS becomes even more dominant because they debuff mitigation etc.  Brigands dominate 1v1 PvP and team PvP.  Really, it's the best PvP class.  </P> <P>In groups, a Brigand/Bruiser combo really works well.  The Brigand smuggles the team, tracks the prey, targets the enemy, snares them, DOT's them, and when the time is right drops nasty DPS on them.  The Bruiser taunts aggro off the Brigand, periodically stuns the foe so the Brigand can pop in and out with his DPS and not take too much damage, and the Bruiser can apply decent DPS on anyone who cannot get away because the Brigand has snared them.  If things don't go well, the Brigand can always Evac the team.  Not much better team than 1 Defiler, 1 Fury/Warden/Inquis, 2 Bruisers, 1 Assassin and 3 Brigands.  Wards, Healing, Taunting, Tracking everything including invis/stealth, 4 Evacs, and so much damage that everything just dies on command.  </P> <P>If you're starting a new character on a PvP server, definitely start a Brigand ... they're the best.  Bruisers are fun, but Brigands get all the best toys.  </P>