another amazing reflexes thread.

[OdinR]

has anybody else noticed that if your hit but whatever attack failed to inflict damage,  AR still breaks?  based on description it should only break when the brigand takes damage,  not on hostile action against the brigand.i've noticed many damage shields that fail to inflict damage still break it. on a positive note manastone doesn't break AR even though it does damage...<div></div>

[Carna]

<div></div>How much do you manage to keep AR up for... how's your dps post change?

[NemaLVey]

<div></div><p>#1 Cast AR</p><p>#2 Go fight something with a group</p><p>#3 Immediately lose AR within first 10 seconds</p><p>#4 Watch the counter to reuse AR </p><p>#5 30 seconds is up, mob is dead before recast</p><p>#6 Do steps 1-6 for 15 minutes.</p><p>#7 Give up.</p><p> </p><p>Note: This is just a test to see how it is in regular group settings, just to get an idea of how dead I will be later on in a raid.</p>

[Riversideblues]

i can't keep AR up honestly, i just keep it off and toggle it on for names, keeps the 10% hate generation offcan't give any comments on dps changes, haven't raided yet myself, once the grind ends ill post some numbers on any changes, but frankly now, it's useless on mobs that have aoes and no damage sheilds IE) nothingi agree odine, with a ward our avoid shouldn't be dropping, and last time i checked it, vessel still drops it<div></div>

[Timesquare]

<div>since the nerf on AR , i managed myself not to cast on myself , but except for raids</div><div>i simply just took the damm spell outta my hotbars</div>

[OdinR]

<div></div>wards are another thing lol i dont even have a damage message while warded attacking a mob with a damage shield and AR also breaks.i think the change to the the skill wouldn't be too big a problem if it worked as the description indicated,  but then again the update notes say it was changed further then it is in the live game so i guess we're in limbo waiting to see what will happen to one of our skills.at least our skill isn't broken like one of the defiler spells that heal the mobs a substancial amount lol<div></div><p>Message Edited by OdinRed on <span class="date_text">02-27-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:44 AM</span></p>

[Fig]

<div>I'm having the same results.  Obviously in the Nest of the Great Egg zone I have had the buff break immediatly when the mob casts an AoE but even in overland and other dungeon zones since KoS went live I've had it break almost all the time.</div><div> </div><div>XP groups, quest groups, in dungeons, outside on islands, seems worse in some areas than others but the only consistency I can see for sure is that it will break on a melee type AoE, especially on first incoming of a mob.</div><div> </div><div>Ex: Tank pulls with bow, mob(s) run over, fight starts, mob(s) cast a melee AoE type attack, I take damage (even with AR on and even though I have not done 1 point of damage to the mob, no way I have pulled aggro) and AR drops.  Same as the above poster, you just watch the refresh timer and try to cast it again but the mob is dead.</div><div> </div><div>In other words, my results, since the KoS change, this spell is entirely useless to me.</div><div> </div><div>It was sad to me to see Gallenite's post (Scott Hartsman, Assoc Producer of eq2) on Fires of Heaven board saying that much of the decision was gear based (as in why didn't Brigands have to worry about resist gear when others did).  Guess that means mages and rangers that can stay out of AoE range are next on the list, right? Whatever.</div><div> </div><div>Yeah, I'm still bitter. There. I said it. Sue me.</div><div> </div><div>Ergot Jones of Unrest<Drow></div>

[Neue Reg]

<div></div>I dunno about other named (im not concerned with trash mobs at all) but the nameds in Nest dont break it anymore.  I pmed Lockeye with the logs of the fight friday night...and he fixed it.  I have killed chamberlan and the other nameds in nest 2x since, and hes not poping ar anymore with his ae.

[Atrocity]

I killed chamberlain last night and AR dopped on his first AE.I've been testing it out a bit on the lizards in breeding grounds since they cast a small AE.  My findings there are that AR will stay up while I'm fighting and if I don't draw any agro or take any damage then it does stay up and prevent the AE from landing on me.  I've even drawn agro, parried the attacks and had AR stay up.  However every now and then it does seem to drop on an AE even when I don't get damage.I'm not able to come up with a definitive analysis of what's going on.  Chamberlain definitly knocked it off of me with his first AE.  AR has still not had it's agro increase removed nor does there appear to be any speed increase when it drops.<div></div>

[Xri]

<div></div>I have had it drops on an initial AE, and I have had it last the entire fight.  Just seems very inconsistant right now.

[Kegofbud]

<div></div>It does seem to be a little better then at first nerf. It still breaks when using the vessel of fyr'un though. This needs fixing.

[Lou Zirr]

<div></div>Raided lockjaw last night and had the AR dropping without pulling aggro.  Seemed to be linked ot one of his AE.  Maybe tail lash?

[Anoixia]

<div></div>the wing buffet stun/AE seems to be getting through it sometimes, but not other times

[Strifex]

<div></div><p>Makes one wonder if the test server is used to test nerf bat effects on character classes.  I spoke of Vessel of Fry'un bringing down Amazing Reflexes in multiple posts about 3 weeks before the Brigand nerf going live and yet 3 weeks after live Vessel of Fry'un is still bringing down AR.  Blackguard's only reply was that the Nerf was going to add "you'll need to be careful about your targets and aggro management in order to avoid indirect AoEs. You can still avoid many indirect AoEs if you are skillful in doing so"  Just like he is, I am still puzzled as to how Vessel of Fry'un bringing down AR relates to aggro management and carefully choosing targets.</p><p>In addition to a few other AE mobs, I too have noticed the boss in nest of the great egg brings down AR wether I am in combat or not.  AR drops all the time for a multitude of reasons beyond taking DS damage or using my Vessel of Fry'un in combat like any other class can do.  I have seen it drop on 3 different mobs before I have even engaged the mob from their AE for example.</p><p>I cancelled both my accounts last week and was pleasantly surprised to see a customer survey attatched to it.  It seems SoE is aware of the effects on their customers that some of their employees are using (repetitive senseless nerfing to character classes) and are wanting to understand at what level it is affecting them.  Specifically one can select the reason for cancelling the account as "do not agree with the changes made to your class" and something to the effect of "poor customer service or lack of consideration from customer service."</p><p>There was over a month of test server time to test the implemented Ranger nerf but I doubt any of that time was used to test the effects because when in went live, Rangers were nerfed into tier 3 DPS.  In less that 3 weeks live it is obvious, just like it was to the customers who play Rangers during the test server phase of the nerf that they were way over nerfed.  End result is yet another correction needed to nerf that was not well thoughtout or tested.  The same thoughtlessness and lack of testing to the Brigand AR nerf.</p><p>My post in the testing forum after weeks leading up to the AR nerf followed by a - misleading and dodge the concerns and issues reply from Balckguard- followed by the virtual worthless AR skill now that drops from mob AoEs without even engageing them and unuseable Vessel of Fry'un to the Brigand class:</p><div><p>I am done with Blackguard and his "Gotta use my nerf bat" approach these days on the players toward everything.  When he first took the job I saw a genuine effort to improve the game for players by positive corrections and a showed "listening ear" to players concerns and suggestions for the game in which they invest so much time and effort into building their character and being a part of the Everquest world.  His actions over the past 6+ months have shown what seems to be a reactive approach wrapped in thoughtlessness and frustration without regard to the many players concern or input.  Those actions (nerfbatting our characters over and over again) are then explained away with innaccuracies that border on the definition of lies.  Those actions are still implimented despite hundreds of outcries and concerns from the players.  For example, AR was never a get-out-of-jail-free-card as explained by Blackguard, nor was it game unbalancing.  The CA came with a +12% hate generator and if the Brigand pulled aggro he could be targeted with AEs, not to mention probably dead already from the raid mob hit (Brigands are not designed to take raid mob hits).  That required a skillful application of our debuffs to keep aggro on the MT/MA, it added an immense challenge and level of fun to being a Brigand who is designed to debuff the mob in close combat for the raid force.  It added a well balanced uniqueness to the class in executing its designed responsibilities.  Blackgaurd claims that the changes to AR will require the Brigand to now use skill when fighting raid mobs.  There is no skill involved when the Brigands AR drops because of the mobs Damage Shield (DS) or when the Brigand uses Vessel of Fry'un, it is completely out of the players hands.  No application of skill is going to prevent that.  If the Brigand uses that quested item like any other class uses it, he drops his AR...period - no amount of skill can avoid that just like no amount of skill can keep AR up when fighting DS mobs.  Skill was required with the old AR, now it is not, yet Blackguard claims it is probably in hopes of getting us to believe in something that is not.  It is like me telling my 6 year old son at noon time on a clear sunny day that the Sun is not up yet.  It is just not true.  The skill and challenge has been removed and substituted with an huge penalty.  If I use my Vessel of Fry'un, not only did I break my AR for 30 seconds and have to go stand on the sidelines not doing my job of debuffing the mob (since all my CA's are designed to debuff the mob at close range and I have no ranged CAs because it is outside the design and purpose of the Brigand class, I just sit there being useless), I sit out of the fight for minutes because of the DoT effect.  Last night in courts I hit the mob with a debuff, his DS brings down my AE immediately and within a second his AE kills me.  I got one debuff off, a single strike then I am dead.  I too am seeing a lot of DS mobs in KoS despite the claim of only 5% have DS.  With future expansions coupled with the rate increase of DS mobs in KoS compared to PoF, one can only expect a lot more DS mobs as future expansions are released.</p><p>Reminds me of the old verant days of EQ1 where there was a continual rotation of smaking character classes with the bat until eventually, people end up cancelling their subscriptions in frustration.  For those that remember, SOE finally did customer survery on the log-in screen with regard to Verant's customer satisfaction level.  The results where dismal and although it may not have been the primary reason, Verant was soon relieved of its place in EQ1.  After all the thoughtless nerfing over multiple years it produced what?  More nerfing because the nerf corrections still have not balanced their imagined unbalancing issues.  The latest crafted ring fiasco is just one small example to add to the Brigand example.  Crafted rings get changed to remove the ring buff in order to fix some imagined game unbalancing issue, then less than a month later it is changed again to buff on something like a 3.5% rate, to remove the game unbalancing correction they had just put in (I thought we had a test server).  Blackguard wrote "we are not nerfing things for the fun of it"  and from a professional opinion I can agree with that.  Once again that statement avoids the issue.  The issue is, as I stated in my response to his statement in the post "some balance changes in testing" in the Develpoment Corner forum    "<strong>I do not think anyone believes you are nerfing things for the fun of it.  I do believe based on the overwhelming customer responses on the boards, that most think the repetitive nerfing is not well thought out, nor is it done in consideration of the many customers who have countless hours of experience playing their class</strong>." </p><p>As I said, I am done.  I am cancelling my 2 subscriptions to EQ2.  I would expect Blackgaurd to welcome the news since my voice has been a voice of reason which contradicts his recent 6+ month reactive approach wrapped in thoughtlessness and frustration without regard to the overwhelming player input or concern.  I am taking the memories of the many friends of those I have met and bringing them to a different Online game that does not practice continuous and negative nerfing of their players classes with questional integrity justifications.</p></div><p> </p><p> </p>

[Taraxus]

"you'll need to be careful about your targets and aggro management in order to avoid indirect AoEs."ROFL. So i need to be careful if a mob has a DS or Feedback and noone can dispell it ? And i need to be careful using Manastone or Vessel ?Its [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] broken, it makes aggro, it doesnt give any speed upgrade (which is totally senseless anyways ...).Please repair it in that way: "If the brigant getting aggro and hit AR fades."

[cultus_fer]

<div>well every MMO gets out the nerf bat at some time or another, so you just have to take the punches.</div><div> </div><div>I'll probably give Vanguard a try because it will be so much harder/longer.  Which in effect gets rid of most the whiny kids that cause a lot of class nerfs.</div><div>SOE tries to listen to everyone, but all they hear are the loudest (ranger/summoners).  And when all these kids (most of WoW players/growing number in EQ2 players) start complaining about someone getting something they percieve as an advantage (brigands not affected by ae's), they complain about it, not realizing it's only purpose is to help them.    They want the quick fix & instant gratification at whatever the cost.    That is why Vanguard is becoming more and more appealing to me.   Yes it will have many problems too, but if it's truly as hard as they are touting it as, most players that stick with it won't have their heads up their [Removed for Content] and wonder why it stinks.</div>

[NemaLVey]

<div>I believe they hit a wall in thier own "maze".  Thought out the first 50 levels of the game very well, that I give them some credit for.  Just seems they got lost in thier vision on how things ultimately should be, throwing out skills, replacing them, scaling down.  Basically things went too wild without thought since DoF.  I blame them for some copying of other games instead of being original in concepts, which ultimately hurt thier credibility with thier clients, and lost thier vision on what classes should be like at the "end game".  This is what generally happens in most MMO's after thier first year.  Adding new, exciting, fun things to keep the clientel, find out later that its not what they envison, "nerf", and lose some clients.  The sad part though, if they just kept doing what they have been doing with the every 14 levels get an upgraded skill, I think they would have less issues.  Or atleast work the "maze" backwards to the start, so they know how to scale things for each tier down the line, before doing something new and exciting.  Or even better, actually discuss ideas with thier clients.</div><div> </div><div>Oh well, I can dream.</div><div> </div><div>As for other games such as Saga of Heroes, and Warhammer... I will be checking them out.  I doubt I would be actually leaving EQ2 for any long duration.  I certainly wouldnt be such a fanatic though, they already kinda killed that off.  New games are just the "shinies" in the sand.  DARN THOSE SHINIES!!!!</div><div> </div><div>/rant off</div>

[Carna]

<div></div>Every game development company needs to get out the nerf bat from time to time, few game development companies can reduce a class to a smoking crater in the span of a single update. Not only can SOE do that, they also have a track record of doing exactly that and not just in EQ2.... Their abiility to "fix" a problem from 5 different directions at once without coordination when any 2 of them would have sufficed is something unique to SOE.

[Magus_Bl]

<div></div><p><a target="_blank" href="http://www.gamergod.com/images/91/5c/9121eb62d067e484f6a10218d40e6a5c.jpg">http://www.gamergod.com/images/91/5c/9121eb62d067e484f6a10218d40e6a5c.jpg</a></p><p> </p><p>Heh that's what happened to AR.  They packaged it and are selling it for 2 writs and 5 gp <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Damari]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Magus_Blue wrote:<div></div><p><a target="_blank" href="http://www.gamergod.com/images/91/5c/9121eb62d067e484f6a10218d40e6a5c.jpg">http://www.gamergod.com/images/91/5c/9121eb62d067e484f6a10218d40e6a5c.jpg</a></p><p> </p><p>Heh that's what happened to AR.  They packaged it and are selling it for 2 writs and 5 gp <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><hr></blockquote><p>Ahh, Magus_Blue, you beat me to it.  Yup, the truth is finally revealed.  I feel....... betrayed.</p><p><img src="http://www.gamergod.com/images/91/5c/9121eb62d067e484f6a10218d40e6a5c.jpg"></p><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by Damari on <span class="date_text">03-09-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:19 PM</span></p>

[NemaLVey]

<div></div><div></div><div><font color="#ff99ff">Nvm....futile.</font></div><p>Message Edited by NemaLVey on <span class="date_text">03-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:34 AM</span></p>

[Seiden]

you know, when people said brigands sucked, i didn't belive them. Now it is true.<div></div>