Post LU15 feedback collection thread

[ag]

I've posted this update on the community summit forum Brigand issues for the devs attention. Please correct/confirm/deny anything below, please and thank you.20051020 (Updated for LU15)---BRIGAND SPECIFIC-We need to be able to imbue all sheaths, bandoliers, pouches, and satchels, for all tiers. Just like bows.-Poison: Poison should not disappear on death. It should be just like food and drink, it should stay until it's consumed.-Poison: We need proc messages for all types of poison, not just direct damage. Something like "You apply (insert type of poison name here) on Target" for debuffs and misc. type poisons. So for debuffs, for example, it would say "You apply hexxing poison on a plated digger" and/or for misc: "You poison a plated digger with sluggish poison", etc. We need a way to verify proc counts and proc rate.-Poison: There should be graphical/particle effects for ALL procs of ALL types, including damage, debuff, and misc. The graphical effects should be distinct for each category, at least.-Poison: The T6 poison vial icons/colors need to be similar to the T5, T4, T3, and T2 icons. That is, they need to vary color by type. Using the same icon is fine, but the colors need to be different. What we do not want is to go back to the situation where poisons and potions use the same icon, as that was just as annoying.-Poison: The misc poisons of Cajoling Whispers and Volatile Virus (among others) have 4 procs on them. Proc counts should be as follows: 200 for common Damage + DoT, 100 for Debuffs, and 50 for all Miscellaneous. The misc effects should be changed so that having 50 of them isn't overpowered or 'bad', because having only 4 procs is ludicrous. For example, there's absolutely no harm whatsoever in having 50 procs of Volatile Virus, so why is it just 4? It's just annoying to Alchemists to make something that lasts for 5 minutes (or less) in combat. They won't bother, so the item goes unused. Also, why would you EVER want a mez poison, like Cajoling Whispers? You can't guarantee a proc of it, and even if you could, what's the point? The stun poison does the same thing, (interrupts) so why is the lull effect one even in there?-Poison: The descriptions on all L50-60 poisons need to be updated to include the proc count in the description, like all 3-49 poisons have.-Poison: A graphical or emote effect when we're applying a poison would be nice. Perhaps the emote-action that alchemists use while at the alchemy table would be appropriate while we're applying? At the moment we just stand there doing nothing.-Amazing Reflexes is currently blocking certain types of group heals and certain types of evac (when the Brigand is not the evac'er). It should not.-If you use evac, and someone in the group is invis, sometimes it will not bring them. (this is an entirely separate issue from Amazing Reflexes)-When Double Up is used right after "Thugish Negotiation" It will crash the entire group to desktop. Some of the AE damage will also hit members in the group as well.-Deceit line: The upgrade should actually be better. Right now Deceit and Crafty Deceit are identical.-Deceit/Crafty Deceit would be better changed to a 30% chance to proc a large de-aggro buff rather than the current knockdown/DPS increase. Perhaps 1 minute out of every 4? This change could also be placed on Ruthless Cunning, to provide some tangible reward for using these two CA's/lines. The idea would be to put this buff up, then you could really chain cast your CA's, knowing you'd have a good chance at proc'ing the de-aggro buff while it's up. There should be a visible effect from the de-aggro proc, different than the normal one.-Surprise Attack/Ruse: If an NPC does a multi-strike attack on a Ruse'd Brigand, the Brigand will Surprise Attack the number of times they're hit. If this is intended, just let us know.-Surprise Attack/Ruse: We need a start-of-art message for Ruse/Trickery/Deception/Surprise Attack. There is a significant delay between the time you use the CA until you can be hit and damaged, and there should not be.-Surprise Attack/Ruse: The +2 hate positions is absolutely 100% NOT working.-Surprise Attack/Ruse: Ruse is making the MONSTER do the Feign Death animation, as well as the Brigand. It looks silly, and shouldn't be happening.-Murderous Rake / Debilitate should break stealth at the end of their casting cycle, not the start.-Personal and Group stealth changes: It'd be nice if green mobs didn't see through invis or stealth, regardless if they have see-invis or see-stealth. I mean, after all, they're green, right? Even if this was just our personal stealth, it would have some value.-Can you drop the cast time on Sneak to 1 second so it provides some differentiation from Snoop, and is something we could use in combat for Run Through?OTHER ISSUES-Please make it so food buff timers, drink buff timers, and poison buff timers last through player death, zone crashes, daily server restarts, and outright server crashes.-It'd be nice to have some ranged Ammo merchants in the Maj'Dul Courts, or have ammo added to the bursers selling inventory.-When you /yell after engaging an encounter, creatures should exhibit consistent behavior, such as chasing you a fixed distance from the original aggro point or a fixed distance from the /yell point. Right now, it's very random. In some cases, creatures are chasing people across entire zones to kill them or just hit them once and then run away. It should be consistent.-Frame rate in the clefts of rujark is abysmal, still. Same for Maj'Dul.-Runspeed buffs. Either these should NOT stack, or you need to change every description of them so that it says "Stacks with other abilities" because everything stacks right now. I'm tired of explaining to people that the descriptions are wrong. Take the dive and make the change, or tell everyone everything will stack forever. It's been in the grey zone for too long.-There should be a tooltip in the bank interface explaining how to make change (1p to 100g). The existing mechanism is not intuitive.-The Rod of Rukh (Damsel in Distress quest progression) needs a new spawn point. It spawns (1/3 of the time) in an inaccessible spot atop the SE-most building near the Court of Tears. It's not possible for players to walk on top of that building. Re-verified 20051011. There is no way on top of that building that I can see. If you know of a way, please post a screenshot/movie.-Horses should always resummon, as should pets, in any zone that permits it. When? After zoning, using a carpet, or using a Griffon, if they were up when you performed the action. They do not, currently. It's inconsistent.-If harvesting an item is trivial, why do I fail at it? Either remove the trivial message, change it to "you will not gain skill from this action" or make it so if it's trivial, we obtain an item from the harvest node EVERY TIME. For that matter, once you're at your level cap (and can't possibly get any better, no matter how hard you try) why do you fail at all while harvesting? Furthermore, why do you fail harvesting on lower tier harvest nodes? You should not. I can see failing while you're not at your level cap and not in your tier, but that aside, it should be no-fail.-If we cannot modify a faction, please remove it from the faction list until we can modify it.-If we cannot increase our alcohol tolerance, please remove it until we can.-The zone out from Pillars of Flame still doesn't work right. Why has this been reported and broken since DoF beta, and yet remains unchanged?-People still get the black screen of death while riding the Griffons.-Please change the lockout timer on the Hidden Cache instance so that it starts after you kill something, not just from zoning in.-Pillars of Flame needs to be instanced. There is tremendous server side latency with 100+ people.Gyilok:-the issue of no improvement from moving to crafty deceit from deceit, whatever they make out if that skill, let crafty be better then simple deceit-I would not like to see the stun proc go [on Deceit], its the only one that still works on epics as it seems to meAvBelgy:-Invis needs to be a lot better for rogues, mobs our own level and say maybe 5 levels above us should not be able to see us regardless of what see invis/stealth spells they have active.Kirmatt:-''We need to be able to imbue all sheaths, bandoliers, pouches, and satchels, for all tiers. Just like bows.'' -- For real, And maybe actually putting in tier 6 ranged ammo. Like bows have... and this is also the, or one of the, most short range / low dmg ranged type.-Amazing Reflexes: it would be amazing if it also had a message for when you avoid the actual AE's.-'When Double Up is used right after "Thuggish Negotiation" It will crash the entire group to desktop. Some of the AE damage will also hit members in the group as well. '' -- ya.. this needs to be fixed ASAP. And im also not a real fan of all our ae skill being pure ones now.-''-If you use evac, and someone in the group is invis, it will not bring them. (this is an entirely separate issue from Amazing Reflexes)'' unless this is with class / racial (traits) specific invis.. this isnt true. Didn't work when I tried it Tonight with a few other people. <i>[Yeah, it _might_ have been a racial invis at that, but I think it was just normal Wizard invis. I'll test this more. -agra]</i>Andai:-re: Surprise Attack: When two or more mobs hit you at exactly the same time, with Ruse active, the surprise attack hits each of those mobs. I've seen this happen alot with groups of three in SS. Kythik:-The slow effect from shrouded blade(ad3 at 22%) is not better then Concealed blade (master 1 or 2 at 24%). AD3 shrouded blade should be atleast the same % if not slightly better.-Double up needs to be changed to last 2 ca's not last 2 seconds of ca's. this is due to lag on raids. a fair number of the time due to lag you only get 1 ca instead of 2.All replies will be integrated into the Community Summit Forum posting that I maintain there for the backstabbing joy of all Brigands everywhere. Whenever possible, please include date, time, zone, and if the bug or issue is reproducable. Opinion debates will not be incorporated into the consolidated thread. For example, saying <i>"Deceit sucks! You suck! Your Mom sucks! Everything sucks!"</i> is unlikely to bring about any positive changes. Saying <i>"I think Deceit needs to be changed to proc a de-aggro effect rather than increase DPS"</i> would be better.I'll do my best to update this list and repost a new collection thread after every live update, at least.EDIT: Added community Brigands comments to date.<p>Message Edited by agra on <span class=date_text>10-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:02 AM</span>

[Xri]

-Amazing Reflexes is currently blocking group heals and evac (when the Brigand is not the evac'er). It should not.<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have done some tests on this myself also.</DIV> <DIV>Monk Group FD misses, unless the monk has us specifically targetted.</DIV> <DIV>Warden Group Regen works, regardless if we are targetted or not.</DIV> <DIV>Warden Group Heal misses, unless the warden has us specifically targetted.</DIV> <DIV>Scout Evac misses, unless the scout has us specifically targetted.</DIV> <DIV>Warden Evac misses, unless the warden has us specifically targetted.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Please change the lockout timer on the Hidden Cache instance so that it starts after you kill something, not just from zoning in.<BR></DIV> <DIV>I went LD in here one day, when I logged back in, I was shown as being in Lockjaw's Instance, and was booted out of the zone (and locked out), while the rest of my group were still inside.  Don't know if this will be reproducable or not.</DIV>

[kyth]

that appears to be a complete list.  The Deciet/Crafty Deceit idea is kinda cool.  I just want improved deagro since the adversaries line is great for xp grind but getting hit got 5k on raids when a mob turns cause the tanks taunt was resisted kinda sucks. <div></div>

[Gyilok]

<DIV>you also miss the issue of no improvement from moving to crafty deceit from deceit</DIV> <DIV>whatever they make out if that skill, let crafty be better then simple deceit</DIV> <DIV>I would not like to see the stun proc go, its the only one that still works on epics as it seems to me</DIV>

[AvBel]

<DIV>Invis needs to be a lot better for rogues, mobs our own level and say maybe 5 levels above us should not be able to see us regardless of what see invis/stealth spells they have active.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Come on, we are the kings of stealth, being able to sneak past 99.9% on the mobs in EQ1 was one of our defining abilities.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>what about are 2 lost skills ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How about replacing our FD invis skills with something like Vanish in WoW to help us get out of tricky situations</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"Vanish</DIV> <DIV>Allows the rogue to vanish from sight, entering an improved stealth mode. Vanish cancels spells in progress and missiles in flight if they are being cast at the vanished player.</DIV> <DIV>Requires Flash Powder."<BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>improved stealth mode</DIV> <DIV>breaks encounter</DIV> <DIV>lose all agro</DIV> <DIV>burst of spead</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>what do you all think ?</DIV><p>Message Edited by AvBelgy on <span class=date_text>10-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:24 AM</span>

[Kirma]

<P>aight, even though I hate agra <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> this is a pretty decent post.. and i'd like to add / comment on some stuff.</P> <P>''We need to be able to imbue all sheaths, bandoliers, pouches, and satchels, for all tiers. Just like bows.'' -- For real, And maybe actually putting in tier 6 ranged ammo. Like bows have... and this is also the, or one of the, most short range / low dmg ranged type.</P> <P> </P> <P>''-Amazing Reflexes is currently blocking group heals and evac (when the Brigand is not the evac'er). It should not.'' -- I personally never had an healing issue problem. And while the evac thing is really annoying, it's only with scouts evac. Sk's / Wiz / Warden one works. -- while talking of this spell... it would be amazing if it also had a message for when you avoid the actual AE's.</P> <P> </P> <P>''When Double Up is used right after "Thugish Negotiation" It will crash the entire group to desktop. Some of the AE damage will also hit members in the group as well. '' -- ya.. this needs to be fixed ASAP. And im also not a real fan of all our ae skill being pure ones now.</P> <P> </P> <P>''-If you use evac, and someone in the group is invis, it will not bring them. (this is an entirely separate issue from Amazing Reflexes)'' unless this is with class / racial (traits) specific invis.. this isnt true. Didn't work when I tried it Tonight with a few other people.</P>

[Andai]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <BR>-Surprise Attack/Ruse: If an NPC does a multi-round attack on a Ruse'd Brigand, the Brigand will Surprise Attack the number of times they're hit. If this is intended, just let us know. <BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>When two or more mobs hit you at exactly the same time, with Ruse active, the surprise attack hits each of those mobs. I've seen this happen alot with groups of three in SS. </DIV>

[kyth]

    The slow effect from shrouded blade(ad3 at 22%) is not better then Concealed blade (master 1 or 2 at 24%).  AD3 shrouded blade should be atleast the same % if not slightly better. <div></div>

[Xri]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kirmatt wrote:<BR> <P>''-Amazing Reflexes is currently blocking group heals and evac (when the Brigand is not the evac'er). It should not.'' -- I personally never had an healing issue problem. And while the evac thing is really annoying, it's only with scouts evac. Sk's / Wiz / Warden one works. -- while talking of this spell... it would be amazing if it also had a message for when you avoid the actual AE's.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>I have tested the warden evac quite a bit, and it does not take us, unless the warden has us specifically targetted.</DIV>

[kyth]

Double up needs to be changed to last 2 ca's not last 2 seconds of ca's.  this is due to lag on raids.  a fair number of the time due to lag you only get 1 ca instead of 2.  <div></div>

[kyth]

    Not a brigand specific issue, but the carpet in SS needs to be fixed.  To many times now have i clicked it and gotten on and it just sits there.  I have to /quit and come back. <div></div>

[Red Whisper]

<DIV>I have never crashed using Thuggish Negotiation followed by Double Up, however, since I got it made Ad3 yesterday, it does damage to myself and the group every time I cast it and then cast Double Up.  This never happened before.  Another brig on my server with just Adept 1 says it doesn't happen to him.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nice post.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tidder Kittykiller</DIV> <DIV>Brigand of Toxx</DIV> <DIV>Vindicate</DIV>

[kyth]

    well i have ad1 TN and it happens.  i bet you just never noticed it happen.  The crashing part is random though, it doesnt happen every time.  Mainly only crashes if timed right i believe. <div></div>

[ag]

If you use Snoop, then Smuggle, and drop either one, but leave one up, you are not considered stealthed for Combat Arts that require it.

[Damari]

<P>hi, did darathar last night and Im not sure if the following is a bug or not.</P> <P>Earlier in the year, Darathar was bugged in that at every 25% hp he lost, he would stun the raid and then pick out individual members of the raid as a chew toy (he's supposed to fly off and come back fully healed).  This was apparently fixed around LU 7 but I cant confirm it.</P> <P>So last night, Darathar stuns the raid at the correct time but because I had amazing reflexes on and still smackin its hide, rather than fly away, he proceeded to kill the stunned raid group.  So, Im not sure if this is the old bug revisited or if my immunity to his stun AoE is bugging his 'fly away' script.</P> <P>I tried to test this when he was down to the last 25% milestone but didnt cancel AR quickly enough to let myself be stunned.</P> <P>Any thoughts?</P> <P></P>

[Riversideblues]

BAH! stop whining lol i agree that yeah, evac would make sense to have when it comes to AE avoid, but when it comes to heals, flavor wise it makes since to not get them, cant always get good without the bad, and why would you even care you shouldnt be taking any non manastone type damage lol and when it comes to thuggish negotiation, are you serious that you think that it should only hit the encounter? physically it makes little sense "ill jump and twirl my blades but only hit specific guys" yeah okay.... and aoe is better than encounter when you get big [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] anyways, if you're bad enough to pull agro with it then you probably deserve to die as for poisons going away, yeah it suicks, but live with it, be happy you dont stay dead, reviving and losing poisons is no big deal, keeps the market going a little faster too just be caful how much [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] you [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about not having or they might give you that and maybe make dispatch 5s <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> to even it out <p></p>

[ag]

Riversideblues,Let me guess, you're not a Brigand?

[Gyilok]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Riversideblues wrote:<BR>BAH! stop whining lol<BR>i agree that yeah, evac would make sense to have when it comes to AE avoid, but when it comes to heals, flavor wise it makes since to not get them, cant always get good without the bad, and why would you even care you shouldnt be taking any non manastone type damage lol<BR><BR>and when it comes to thuggish negotiation, are you serious that you think that it should only hit the encounter? physically it makes little sense "ill jump and twirl my blades but only hit specific guys" yeah okay.... and aoe is better than encounter when you get big [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] anyways, if you're bad enough to pull agro with it then you probably deserve to die<BR><BR>as for poisons going away, yeah it suicks, but live with it, be happy you dont stay dead, reviving and losing poisons is no big deal, keeps the market going a little faster too<BR><BR>just be caful how much [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] you [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about not having or they might give you that and maybe make dispatch 5s <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> to even it out<BR><BR> <P></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>*sigh* another [Removed for Content] noob not knowing what the hell is going on</P> <P>noone cares if thuggish negotiation is full ae, since after combat revamp all ae skills of all classes have been made to work out of encounter also; the problem with thuggish negotiation is that under some circumstances it hits our own groupmates aswell and even such a noob as yourself cant mean seriously it's working as intended</P> <P>about the poisons, go to any other poison using class boards (let me help: shwashbuckler, assassin, ranger) they all are the same opinion, the only ones opposing this are either non-poison users or just idiots as yourself, and from the other side of the market: if I want to order a bigger amount of poisons the alchemist starts whining he cant keep his vendor stocked before we even come to negotiating a price (no tier 6 npc poisons in game) and that will only become worse when more people start raiding and have to apply poison after every wipe (it happens when you raid but too long story to tell you that)</P> <P>now go back to the archetype boards and give them knowledge about every char you played to lvl 9</P> <P> </P> <P><BR> </P> <P></P>

[Riversideblues]

Nooooo, I am a brig, though i've never heard of thuggish hitting my own teammates, were your teammates charmed or something? And I've never had and problems with double up and our aoe either, and btw, im not a flamer <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> i just only rememberd the things i didnt agree with, i was cool with everytthing else, like ruse, getting anoyed when it doesnt pull the hate <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Also, anyone hit more than 2 attacks on double up? says 2 seconds but ive only noticed it hit 2 another thing that sucks with ruse is when you use it fall over, and some yellow ^^^ swings for the 6s and doesnt even hit you..... and that's in off stance too =P but yeah, how does having a different opinion make me a noob? <div></div>

[ag]

Well that's surprising, I was expecting something a bit more constructive from a fellow Brigand. <img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Kegofbud]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Riversideblues wrote:<BR>Nooooo, I am a brig, though i've never heard of thuggish hitting my own teammates, were your teammates charmed or something?<BR>And I've never had and problems with double up and our aoe either, and btw, im not a flamer <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> i just only rememberd the things i didnt agree with, i was cool with everytthing else, like ruse, getting anoyed when it doesnt pull the hate <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>Also, anyone hit more than 2 attacks on double up? says 2 seconds but ive only noticed it hit 2<BR>another thing that sucks with ruse is when you use it fall over, and some yellow ^^^ swings for the 6s and doesnt even hit you..... and that's in off stance too =P<BR>but yeah, how does having a different opinion make me a noob?<BR><BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>No, what made him call you that was when you started insulting everyone with your post of "ideas",  when no one knows who you are, and everyone else here is kind of familiar with one another. Everyone here, in our small archtype, knows the problems and constructively discusses them.  You kind of jumped in and insulted everyone who had a concern about things that obviously aren't working as intended. :smileywink:<BR> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Kegofbud on <span class=date_text>10-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:43 PM</span>

[Cyco]

<P>Agree with almost everything but not sure we need Deciet line to actually proc a lower taunt thing since I never have any problems with aggro in raids or groups.</P> <P>Can almost always take one hit as well so our conc de-taunt skill fires off and I watch myself before I have lowered aggro some.</P> <P> </P> <P>Sidenote.. 50+ Fluff skill should be a cloak..we need a hooded cloak =) something like the ones they have in DAoC.</P>

[Xri]

<P>Cycord,</P> <P> </P> <P>The issue isn't with being able to take a hit.  That is no problem.</P> <P> </P> <P>The issue is when the mob turns to give you that smack upside the head...how many of your raid mates get killed by a barrage, rampage, or riposts?</P>

[Cyco]

<DIV>Well I watch my dps..lie around the 400-450 mark and on the last week of raiding I havent pulled aggro once so its not a issue for me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Usally open with debiltate, murderous rake and then elude.</DIV> <DIV>Take a 3-5 sec break then I use stab and spine ripper.</DIV> <DIV>Another 3-5 sec break then I do dispatch and shadow slip.</DIV> <DIV>Then some random spamming/breaks and after that rinse repeat..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This never gets me aggro unless the tank sucks <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You need to take breaks now since we have so fast cast timers.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Cycord on <span class=date_text>10-31-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:29 AM</span>

[Gyilok]

riposte of raidmobs is not what it used to be, not that it means turning them is good in any way but not nearly as deadly as it was before

[Crolack]

<DIV>Need to add, when you mentor down to someone and it kills buffs, that it should skip dumping poison/food/drink.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[kyth]

    Sneak needs to be changed so it doesnt "recast" when you zone.  As it is when you zone now you are visible for a short time before you are put back into sneak. <div></div>