Poison revamp post on the combat & encounters section.

[Razie Ber]

Just linking this here since I'm not sure you guys check the other areas of the forums on the regular.. It's an issue I think really needs to be addressed, for all rogues/preds. http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=59476 <div></div>

[ag]

hm. tough topic. A part of me sympathizes with the plight of the raiding Brigand, and part of me recognizes not everyone raids. So the problem affects less than the majority of the playerbase... that would seem to be true. As such, it's not a "OMG, FIXORZ NOW!!1!!" type of thing, more of an annoyance for the high end raiders.Ok, in principle, I agree it would be <b>nice</b> to be able to modify the type of damage we do with poisons. In reality, <i>how would you do it, Razie?</i> Brainstorming for 30 seconds, here's what I came up with:-Create quests that permit/give 5 new abilities/items to Predators and Rogues that allow them to magically transmutate existing poisons so that they do heat, cold, disease, divine, or magic damage. They just select the poison they currently have, use the item/ability on it, and the damage type is magically transformed.OR-Add a bajillion new alchemy recipes using a bewildering array of existing alchemy refines (solvents, WORTs, etc) to create new poisons that have specific damage types.OR-Add a training option that permits Rogues/Predators to choose what type of damage they want their poisons doing when they hit 50.Well, that's what you get in 30 seconds. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I'm out of ideas for now.

[Razie Ber]

I'd revamp the provisions already in place using alchemy.. There are currently a dozen different options for rare and common crafted poisons, which are almost entirely useless, they just change the upfront DD vs. the DoT dmg, to make mostly equal poisons, all doing different numbers, but ending up with the same thing. Honestly most alchemists don't even bother making more than one or two types of poisons, because of this, and then only the variety since multiple rogue/pred situations dictate it, because two people using the same color won't stack.. <div></div>

[Razie Ber]

BTW, I think you'll find that at some point, every character evolves to becoming a "raider" to some degree, and while this issue might not affect you much now, they might at some point.. Also as the game evolves, the mobs will get more and more refined, and don't expect the trend of "normal poison dmg hits everything non-epic" to continue, especially through expansions. Try not to take this to the level of casual vs. hardcore, especially when it has the potential to benefit everyone in a way that's a relatively base and neglected aspect of the two arch-types.. It's really not a "hey wouldn't it be cool if" situation, more a "lets fix this before it becomes even more of a problem than it already is".  While I make general statements about it not affecting non-top tier content, it really does affect it more than most people realize, it's just that people that arn't raiding, parse alot less in general I believe, and are therefore less aware of thier situational dps. Situational at the moment, perhaps constant later. Will anybody really be happy if the combat changes roll around and we're actually 2 tiers lower in the DPS than we were told we'd be because 90% of the mobs in the game resist poison?  Remember, the combat changes arn't just player revamps, but total mob revamps also, and all the new mobs being added to the game in the adventure packs and free updates, have been increasingly more resistant to a variety of dmg types, and more situational. <div></div>

[ag]

I raid. I also consume casual content. Personally, to date, I haven't seen a particularly outstanding poison resistant mob. That's mostly why this doesn't concern me a great deal. Yes, it could become a problem in the expansion, or if they start making poison resistant epic encounters. However, if they do that, they'll also be gimping all casters who use poison based spells. To me, then, if they do start ramping up poison resistances across the board, our plight will be eclipsed by the eruption of lava from all the <b>other</b> subclasses on the forums who would also notice. (any sub-class of which there are at least 10% more of the playerbase than Brigands)Even if there are eventually a handful of epic targets that are 100% poison resistant, this doesn't necessarily mean Scouts are horribly broken, or even that the poison system is broken. All it means for sure is that you shouldn't be using poison or poison based attacks on those creatures. At least, that's my take on it.P.S. My parses to date show a very low miss/resist rate on poisons in epic x 4 encounters. If you have data to the contrary, let's have a look at it!

[Damari]

<P>Hi folks, a good thread of discussion and I do agree with both views.  I currently use legendary poisons, they cost me 2 gold each so cost at 50 is really irrelevant.</P> <P>When raiding or fighting tougher mobs in a single group, I found the brigand is more power efficient when using only debuffs, interupts and the occassional hate reduction.  If you go hard early and burn through your skills, your quickly OOP and less effective overall.  This is where good poison kicks in.  If our auto-attack makes up say 25% of our damage and poison counts for 15%, then it pays to have the best working poison. Now while poison immune mobs are rare, they still do exist and so I do agree with Razie that we should have a poison type that delivers a different damage type, such as a disease, cold, heat or dark.  This is not uncommon in other games.</P> <P>Our current selection of T5 poisons is tragic.  The large upfront damge poison does less damage overall and is about equal in upfront damage as the vicious stab poison which is considered a small upfront posion.  IMO we really only need three different damage type poisons, small upfront with large DOT, medium upfront and med DOT and large upfront and small DOT.  Lets loose the other two and switch these with a different poison type that Razie suggested like a med dam upfront fire based poison or small upfront, large DOT cold based etc.</P> <P>In a long fight, poison is not an option, its essential for a rogue to maintain a reasonable dps and this needs to be considered for all resistant type mobs.</P> <P>Edit: spelling</P> <p>Message Edited by Damari on <span class=date_text>07-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:12 PM</span>

[Razie Ber]

Thanks for the feedback guys. However, the main reason I posted here on this thread was to redirect you to the discussion I have going on about this issue under combat & encounters...  Agree or disagree, how about lets discuss it there, as there's already some commentary going on in that location? http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=59476 word. <div></div>

[WuphonsReach]

As for why there are 5 types of crafted poison... I like a very high DD, so does my groupmate. Since there are 2 types of high-DD, we can each use a different type and not worry about overwriting each other's poison DoTs.Now... once combat changes come in a few months, I've heard that they're going to be mucking with the stacking code. So if you can stack two of the same poison on a mob, then over-lapping poisons would be less of an issue.

[kyth]

    yes stacking of dots is "comming" luckily we dont have to wait as long as some of us did in eq1. <div></div>