TEST SERVER Live Update #7 Opinions

[ag]

While I recognize these are not final changes, I thought I'd share my opinions on some of the <i>proposed</i> <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=tup&message.id=44#M44" target=_blank>changes</a> currently on the Test Server.<i>- There is no longer any way to buff the Parry skill over your current skill cap, and there is a limit on how far it can be debuffed.</i>Ok, so all our Parry buffs are now useless/gone. Not sure why SOE gave us the skills if they're going to make them useless. Seems illogical. Are you going to update all the skills Brigands have that provide Parry so they now provide +defense? Or what? Surely you wouldn't just leave them broken...<i>- Shields now have the following base chances to Block: Tower (20%), Kite (19%), Round (5%), Buckler (3%). Your chances to Block scale up or down based on the con of your opponent. Shield buffs no longer have any effect.- Increasing your Agility improves your base chance of avoiding an attack, but it will not improve your likelihood of parrying, deflecting, or blocking with a shield.</i>Don't use a Round shield. Understood, thank you for the clarification. I will sell all my 1h'd weapons today. I am a little disappointed in spending all that time harvesting a cedar and having an imbue'd round shield made, but hey, that's life. It might be prudent to simply remove the ability for Scouts to use shields, as there's no longer (c'mon, realistically.. it's 5%!!) any point.<i>- The base mitigation values of armor have been adjusted as follows: Heavy (35%), Medium (25%), Light (20%), Very Light (10%).</i>I'm pretty sure medium armor was higher than 25% before, so.. yowza. Not sure how you can't call this a nerf. Once again I'm struck with the frustration of having 3 second cast times on useless evade skills and the inability to take more than 3 hits from a blue++ mob.<i>- Melee damage bonuses are now calculated based on the attacker's strength versus the defender's agility.</i>So Scouts get to do.. less damage? I can only interpret this to mean a lower melee damage bonus for Scouts. What role does Agility play again in calculating ATK? Oh right.. nothing.<i>- You can no longer hail targets while invisible.</i>Wow. Harsh. I'm not sure of what you're trying to fix with this, SOE, but wouldn't it seem more reasonable to fix the Quest NPC's that this exploit affects, rather than kneeing a whole Archetype in the groin?<i>- Poison: Translucent Relentless Vertigo now works properly.</i>Ok, great, what about the other dozen poisons that aren't working properly? Could you please post a complete list?<i>Swashbuckler changes:- Hamstring now uses the Swashbuckling skill instead of Skullduggery.- Disable now shows up as maintained.</i>Um... You do know that Hamstring has been usable by Brigands since Release, and we share the Skullduggery skill with other Rogues (Swashbucklers!!!). Does this mean Brigands weren't supposed to ever use this skill, or that you're just taking it away with no reason, or that you know we had it, or what? Oh... my... Brell... I can't believe it. They stealth fixed the <a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/classes/index.vm?classId=32" target=_blank>Rogue skill page</a> so that it says Swashbuckler now, instead of Rogue. But it's only lower case, which clearly indicates it was done both recently and in a mad rush. Wow. Just... wow. So the end result is Brigands get one less skill, despite the skill being available to us for 5 months, with no explanation or adjustment?Keep in mind, these are opinions, and while I'm normally pretty tolerant, my impression of these changes is to once again affect the actions of less than 1% of the players (high end raiders) by negatively affecting 99% of the players (everyone else). How else are we supposed to interpret your actions, SOE, when you won't give us the real reason for the changes? Here's my narrow, selfish, ego-centric view of the whole thing:I see every single high-end raiding guild fighter and scout in full imbue'd ebon armor, using imbue'd ebon weapons, and a complete set of imbue'd ruby jewelry. Hm... and these changes would definitely stem the flow of rubies and ebons wouldn't it. And yet I have logs showing 1000 harvested T5 ore produces no ebon. I wonder where the real problem is? Oh right, because all those folks that were first to 50 didn't exploit a single broken mob, no-respawn-timer instance, or bug. They actually went out and harvested 10000 T5 ore and 5000 T5 stones EACH to get their ebon and rubies. hehehehe. Sure they did. Just like prior to LU6 you didn't have a 1000% higher chance of harvesting rares within the first hour of a server reset. Riiiiight. No-one took advantage of that.. I'm sure.Not that I'm bitter. No no, I love seeing players advance by taking advantage of broken game mechanics. I really do. Go them. It's even better to see this pattern repeated in both EQ1 and now EQ2 for the past SIX YEARS. That's GREAT!The horse is out of the barn, across the field, over the horizon, and gone. There is no stopping it. The folks that are fully rare-equipped and bored at level 50 and farming named's for ebon and rubies are going to continue to do so or quit. No mechanic changes are going to change that unless the changes are so BAD that you affect the people NOT farming named's as well.Ah well, maybe I shouldn't post this stuff so early in the morning... too much energy.EDIT: Title<p>Message Edited by agra on <span class=date_text>04-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:07 AM</span>

[WuphonsReach]

As with any MMOG: <b>It is as it is until the devs see fit to change it</b>There are no 'god-given rights', no guarantees that just because you can/can't solo a named mob by yourself that you will continue to be able to (or not be able to) do so. (Just as a 'for example', not pointing any fingers...)On the whole, I expect it to be a wash for brigands. But, as usual, I expect the boards to be overrun with hundreds of trolls who whine because they aren't able to play the game in god-mode anymore.The only thing that I'm curious about is why our group sneak skill was changed to a 1-second cast?<p>Message Edited by WuphonsReach on <span class=date_text>04-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:28 AM</span>

[Turb]

I have posted similar comments on the Feedback forum here:http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=13819Suggest we scouts join forces in complaint <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[terahak]

Glad I just bought a master round shield. <div></div>

[Dtrick]

Guess I can stop petitioning to get my SBS changed from the Kite sheild to the round sheild version.

[Arsen]

Just curios - what is the % affect of current high end round shields?  I have not paid too much attention with my low level brigand, but on my guardian is seems like my shield increases my avoidance by about 12% - which even with all my parry buffs active is less than the 20% base rate that it will be after this patch. It may be possible that shields may be even more effective at all levels after this patch despite loosing the ability to buff the parry skill.  Keep in mind that those %s are base chances too - high quality equipment should increase that % even more. That still leaves the question of what they are going to replace all the parry skill buffs with... there are a *ton* of them they will be breaking with this change and it will likely affect most of the non-mage classes out there. The other big thing for scouts seems to be the "melee damage" adjustment.  Certainly that can't be right to base melee damage on strength for all classes... makes no sense when they have already admitted that scout DPS needs upward adjusting.<div></div>

[WuphonsReach]

At 38-41, I haven't bothered to use a shield as a Brigand. Even when acting as a light-tank for a duo/trio group. The mob simply dies faster when I go dual-wield.Now... I may be biased since I'm swinging a PGT in my off-hand. And if you have the PGT, there's not much reason to use a shield. Post-41, I have yet to see.

[Play-D]

I am taking a wait and see attitude. Hopefully the changes are done with carefull consideration to all classes, and the roles they are supposed to fufill. <div></div>

[Efour EQ2]

<P>weeeeell using a sheild was always *$%#&!.  this interesting new formula and base stats just make it more obvious.</P> <P>As for the STR of the attacker being calculated on the AGI of the defender, that means we get some of our dodge back (which they said was going to be capped (probably at 75% )  sooo me personaly have 240agi self buffed i should in theroy be more dodgy to hit by the weaker archtypes, although i  Still expect to be nicely pummled in 2-3 HOS by tank mobs in 1.5nano seconds.</P> <P> </P>

[Damari]

<P>Agra,</P> <P>I'm with you whole-heartedly regarding the removal of hamstring from our skills inventory.  Especially since us scouts are asking for more DPS and the go ahead and reduce it!!!  Wonder what's next...</P> <P>Damari</P>

[Play-D]

<div></div>Hamstring sucked anyway, it added to much aggro for crap damage. You also had to be right up on the mob for the skill to work. All in all I won't miss anything but the money I spent on the skill. One thing they should give brigs in return is an answering skill to swashbucklers mez, possibly a fear of sometype. That and make self preservation a line, not a single CA, castable on the brig or others, one conc slot per person buffed or the like. Ohh  and while I am just rambling about things I want, make ruse a flanking/frontal attack, not behind though.  <div></div><p>Message Edited by Play-Doh on <span class=date_text>04-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:03 AM</span>

[batter_then]

you know whta would make up for all of this... if they gave us a ruse update at soem danm point... mabe do like a few hundred extra damage... hell i would stop *$%#&!ing about no lvl 30 fluff spell if we got that even... mabe even stop *$%#&!ing all together... o ya this post was 100% correct.. brigands are taking it up the *$%#&! on update 7 <div></div>

[WuphonsReach]

As to the answer to swashie mez... I'd (personally) prefer more slow spells over anything like a mez. Ideally, I'd like to see Bushwhack (and that line of spells) changed from a movement slow to an attack rate slow. Bushwhack with a 14% slow would be a serious upgrade for that spell and make it worth dropping into stealth.As a brigand, I actually enjoy getting in behind the mob and gimping it. Which is one of the reasons I took the debuff Rake (lowers magical defense by 10) rather then more damage. Slows fit in with our skill list (such as all of the stuns/interrupts that make life difficlt for a caster mob).I'm amazed folks are complaining about Hamstring... this was an obviously broken issue and was going to be resolved in 1 of 2 ways:1) If we were supposed to have it, they'd add it to our spell line as we level up.2) If we're not supposed to have it, they'll take it away.Guess what? It wasn't our skill. On the plus side, that gives us maneuvering room to constructively suggest other changes without them saying... "but we already gave you Hamstring".<p>Message Edited by WuphonsReach on <span class=date_text>04-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:19 AM</span>

[dox]

<P><SPAN>I would love to see a fear type CA added.  I could defiantly be a nice tool.  I remember having an ability like that in EQ1 on my rogue (can’t remember the name).  Anyhow, it use to be allot a fun to mess around with.  I won’t miss hamstring at all, its crap and I always knew we shouldn’t have had it.</SPAN></P>

[Kirma]

<DIV>Hamstring sucked anyway, it added to much aggro for crap damage</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>lol... you have some bad evades / lower aggro, or a problem with your skill if you get some aggro in from arts.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And why is it crap dmg? adept 3 it did about 300, disable does 400ish. Any dmg is good dmg if you spam a lot of arts. I grey out all my 16 abilities i use in fights, even aoe and sneak attk.</DIV>

[Play-D]

<div></div><div></div><hr>Kirmatt wrote:lol... you have some bad evades / lower aggro, or a problem with your skill if you get some aggro in from arts.<hr>I assure you I don't have problems with my skills. I just know which ones work well and which do not.Any damage isn't good if it makes it harder to follow up with another attack, hamstring did this. It also required a position so close to the mob you are very much in danger of barrages.Hamstrings use basicly ensured you would need to have used our 3 second cast time deaggro CA's. In 3 seconds I could have whipped out another CA and some melee to easily surpass the damage I gained from Hamstring.That's why I don't use it, and that's why I won't miss it.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Play-Doh on <span class=date_text>04-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:10 PM</span>

[Gory]

<DIV>1), this has nothing to do with live update #7.  2), Agility has never affected damage output, only our power, avoidance, and to-hit chance.  Strength has always been the determining factor in how much damage we do.  The change here is that damage bonuses will no longer be based solely on strength (as they were previously), but on a your-strength-versus-their-agility basis.  This means scouts will take less damage than they currently do, as we have high agilities, as will the agi tanks.  3), fatalism, while typical, is in poor taste.  Amazingly, despite the number of times it has been screamed loudly on these boards, I have yet to actually have a piece of the sky bonk me on the head as it was falling down.</DIV>

[fur]

<DIV>I honestly cant see the upcoming changes as major issues for the scout class , shields... well granted they add a defensive bonus but on the greater scheme of things beeing able to use a shield is (for me) not an issue, were dps and not supposed to be blocking/taking damage , same goes for medium armor (if it is a nerf which im abit dubious about) i personally always look more closely at stats then i do mitigation so this is also a non issue unless you tend to spend most of your time soloing, and the damage beeing based on strength is not news thats how strength have always worked. Strength is directly tied into the amount of damage bonus you had (have) so i cant understand the big hubbub about this one, if ya wanna hit hard with autoattack you raise your strength and having a high agility lessens the effect of damage taken.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I really have to stress that last part, i read alot of posts made by scouts about the new "possible" strength and agilty changes and how this will nerf us, i cant understand that bit, honestly, as we all knew that "+ strength = more damage", this is not news its a core fundamental in eq2 melee combat and most scouts i know have as high or even higher strength as most warriors (remember that we can tailor our equipment towards whatever end, beeing a Guardain in light armor cause it has +12 strength will never be an option for them) so this should not be a problem unless you have gone all out agility (for reasons unknown) but if you have done that you will already be hitting subpar damagewise so in that scenario you are already [Removed for Content].</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"They should make scouts able to critical hit with autoattack =)"</DIV>

[Turb]

Well, from the Swash view when I chose Swash-Brigand it seemed that the Brigand's advantage was the Ruse skill, which certainly adds a lot for the 20's and 30's, if not above, while the Swashie had the mes.So I'm all for Brigand mes if Swashies get Ruse. Then we'd all be much happier <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Play-D]

Swashbucklers have other skills Brigs don't get, so having a fear to offset your mez would be more then balanced. As it stands now swashbucklers get quite a bit more utility for a little less damage. <div></div>

[Gyilok]

it is pretty obvious that brigand stuns  should not break for the extremely short duration they last (cheap shot is the longest I think with 5 sec, but all scouts have that one, the main stun line has 3 sec duration, did never check the ones that have a chance to stun, but dont think they last longer), there is no need for fear or any new skills, just fix this