Please keep it real

[Molando]

I often browse the other boards, and more and more people seem to be complaining about the brigands damage ability.Everything from 'he hit from 1500 every 60 seconds, up to 3600'. To 'brigands easily outdamage every class every time'.If you are doing good damage in a group, please do not use combat stats to rub it into the faces of those who do not.If people ask why so much damage, explain that for instance you have every skill at adept1 or better (as there seems to be many brigand adept1 books dropping compared to other classes).That for instance you are at 31-35 or 41-45 and poisons are their most effctive then.When they say that is unfair, and say you have lots of utility spells, let them know that stun, for instance breaks as soon as the mob is hit, so are useless in group situations. That you can only lower agaility by 19, have no group buffs (apart from burgle). Or that craven walk does not fd on mobs above 28. Have no stifles, hastes, combat slows.From what I have been reading assassins need a dps boost. If the scout classes were around the same DPS by about 15% over hours, then I believe thigs would be good.People are seeing our ruse, well all they are seeing is the number above the mobs head. They do not see that we change position, that we can be hit by barrage. That when we fall we stop attacking.People are now complaining about brigands, we have this fantastic damage, lots of great utility spells. A few brigands seem to be adding fuel to the fire.I am not saying lie about our class, but please keep it real. You do not need to run around and boast about your class. You do not need to say how much better it is than every other class. Or post parsers to show people in your group how crap they are compared to the wonderful you.Molando.(p.s. yes I am waiting for the one star)<p>Message Edited by Molando on <span class=date_text>02-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:19 AM</span>

[b3taha]

<blockquote><hr>Molando wrote:I often browse the other boards, and more and more people seem to be complaining about the brigands damage ability.Everything from 'he hit from 1500 every 60 seconds, up to 3600'. To 'brigands easily outdamage every class every time'.If you are doing good damage in a group, please do not use combat stats to rub it into the faces of those who do not.If people ask why so much damage, explain that for instance you have every skill at adept1 or better (as there seems to be many brigand adept1 books dropping compared to other classes).That for instance you are at 31-35 or 41-45 and poisons are their most effctive then.When they say that is unfair, and say you have lots of utility spells, let them know that stun, for instance breaks as soon as the mob is hit, so are useless in group situations. That you can only lower agaility by 19, have no group buffs (apart from burgle). Or that craven walk does not fd on mobs above 28. Have no stifles, hastes, combat slows.From what I have been reading assassins need a dps boost. If the scout classes were around the same DPS by about 15% over hours, then I believe thigs would be good.People are seeing our ruse, well all they are seeing is the number above the mobs head. They do not see that we change position, that we can be hit by barrage. That when we fall we stop attacking.People are now complaining about brigands, we have this fantastic damage, lots of great utility spells. A few brigands seem to be adding fuel to the fire.I am not saying lie about our class, but please keep it real. You do not need to run around and boast about your class. You do not need to say how much better it is than every other class. Or post parsers to show people in your group how crap they are compared to the wonderful you.Molando.(p.s. yes I am waiting for the one star)<p>Message Edited by Molando on <span class=date_text>02-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:19 AM</span><hr></blockquote>First off, people should not judge the power of another class before they play it. Yes we do good damage but unless we are level 45 or so, with a adept 3 ruse we don't hit 3,000 + regularly. All of our moves are positional besides maybe one or two, giving us a disability compaired to some other classes. But what do you want us to do? Go to every class forum, write up a huge post saying where we suck and are good!?!?! We can't please everyone nor go to every thread like this one and do this over and over again. That is obsurd, that is why people should not judge before they have experienced first hand. I carry four characters, a Brigand, a Shaman, a Summoner and a Soercer. I have played also played a fighter. Now can I give my full opinion on all of there sub-classes? No because I have not played them yet. So far I like Shaman, Summoner, Brigand and Soercer and can give my opinion on those classes. Why? Because I have played them.

[Gyilok]

<DIV>I dont think you got Molando's point</DIV>

[Dtrick]

<DIV>Great post Molando.  The only problem with not having someone bragging is that in every MMO you have people who are DPS chasers.  They want to be the best, do the most damage, and they want to brag about it.  For this reason, we will start to see a lot of new Brigands.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I personally picked a Brigand because I love playing rogues and have played one in every MMO that I have played to date.  The main reason for me picking them is their sneak ability.  I love to be able to sneak around and see all of the game that I can.  As soon as I get access to a new zone, the first thing I do is just go and explore.  The high DPS is just a bonus to my favorite class for MMOs :smileyhappy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The one thing that peeves me off about all the complaining about other classes, is that this game is freaking PVE.  What the hell does it matter if someone is doing more damage than you?  If it was a PVP game then the complaints could be justified because someone has an advantage over you.  Being PVE the only advantage someone has is over the [FAAR-NERFED!] game, not another player.  Everyone should just shut the hell up and just play their class.  If they boost Assassin and Ranger DPS good for them.  You will not see me whining that I am being out damaged by another class.  </DIV>

[terahak]

<DIV>nothing to see here move along please, assasins do way more damage than us</DIV>

[BaronFun]

I dunno WHAT you guys are talkin about. Shadowknights PWN!

[Dtrick]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BaronFunke wrote:<BR>I dunno WHAT you guys are talkin about. Shadowknights PWN!<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Shadownights (P)artake (W)ith (N)ecrophiliacs?  Is that what you are talking about?<p>Message Edited by Dtrick on <span class=date_text>02-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:03 AM</span>

[BaronFun]

I think it's Pontificate While Napping, but I could be wrong

[Kegofbud]

<DIV>Dtrick, I don't even think it's just that some are DPS chasers. Obviously some are. It is fact that we get a lot of Adept 1s dropped. That works in our favor. I know that in cases where a Wizard or an Assassin starts going on and on (and they do) about how much damabe they are doing, I love to bring up the parser. Call it bragging if you want but it bugs me when they do that. I've had people say that we can outdamage a Ranger and that is laughable. I'v ebeen told that I can't possibly do as much damage as a Swashbuckler. Also laughable. Those are the cases when I bring up my parser. Do I care if people know the damage we do? No I don't. It commands respect when I am out lfg. If we are to be nerfed at some point, we will be nerfed. The devs know what is going on. We still aren't the flavor of the month because I still get tells asking me if I want a group because someone is looking for a tank. A lot of people don't even know a Brigand is a scout. </DIV>

[Zerim]

<DIV>BAH!!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <P>I don't know. It seems to me that you are what you are and there should be no need to justify it in the eyes of the person who knows nothing about our class. I personally don't feel the need to champion the "brigands are useful and do good DPS, but we have XYZ deficiencies so it makes it all even" cause. Doing something (in a Brigands case: DPS and utility), and doing it well is cause enough for some people to be proud of their character and by extension, the time invested in it.</P> <P>If pride in what one does well is supposed to take backseat to the feelings or misperceptions of the general EQ2 populace, then we are all going to hell in a handbasket. Brigands are a quite capable DPS class and seem to have been well thought out by designers even though we, like every other class, have Combat Arts that are broken and skills that do not work as described.</P> <P>I will not censor myself because fellow brigands are paranoid about our class getting nerfs or that it may come off the wrong way to other scouts - or any DPS class for that matter. I say, let them walk a mile in a Brigand's shoes and they will see our value as well as our deficiencies and thereby attain a more complete picture of who we are and what we can do. Because, if an SOE designer or developer reviews our class for whatever reason, that is what they are going to do. They will not setup unrealistic or non-everyday combat circumstances where Brigands shine the most and assume that is the everyday life of all Brigands - because it is not.</P> <P>Say it loud, im a Brigand and I'm proud!</P></DIV>

[Kegofbud]

<DIV>Yeah, I'm with Crik on this. I'm not planning on hiding my damage or being afraid of being nerfed. I'm just going to do what I do well every encounter. That's what I'm about.</DIV>

[ShortbusRid]

ill post here what i posted on the assasin board saying ruse hits for more than any attack that assasins get and i call bs on them after seeing the results of worldwide magic/melee hits. Do a search on any server boiard and it will be mostly assasins. I think the people complaining just like getting on the complain "my class sucks" bandwagon before actually looking. worldwide highest magic hits1. Rain Assassin 50 Fallen Befallen 6,7332. Jakron Assassin 50 Ascendance Neriak 6,0323. Uscan Assassin 50 Unguilded Lavastorm 5,7514. Drache Assassin 50 Vae Victis Crushbone 5,6635. Mady Assassin 50 Unguilded Runnyeye 5,6266. Altais Assassin 50 Ardent Legion Mistmoore 5,5797. Arius Assassin 50 Fallen Lineage Befallen 5,5578. Zeef Assassin 50 Total AggressionBlackburrow 5,5239. Bloodbath Assassin 50 Xanadu Runnyeye 5,49010. Nighthalo Assassin 50 Legacy Neriak 5,449worldwide highest melee hit1. Nyht Assassin 50 Fallen Befallen 3,1852. Aure Assassin 50 Unguilded Butcherblock 2,9353. Leibniz Assassin 50 Halcyon Affinity Antonia Bayle 2,8874. Altais Assassin 50 Ardent Legion Mistmoore 2,8805. Banai Assassin 50 Via Mortuus Runnyeye 2,8596. Bloodbath Assassin 50 Xanadu Runnyeye 2,7397. Semetta Assassin 50 Deviant Tendencies Crushbone 2,7288. Kezzin Assassin 50 Vindicate Toxxulia 2,7289. Kaluvein Assassin 50 Unguilded Crushbone 2,72410. Uscan Assassin 50 Unguilded Lavastorm 2,713After seeing these numbers I see no reason for any assasin to complain about highest hits.

[Rake]

<DIV>yeah go assassinate, a lvl 50 ability with a ONE  HOUR RESET    hello fluff</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Every hour an assassin can one shot kill a non ^ mob,  whoopdy doo</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ask any 40+ Brigand how many one shot kills they get on non ^ mobs,  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>oh yea, that would be enough damage to outright kill a mob once per BATTLE</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Zerim]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rakear wrote:<BR> <DIV>yeah go assassinate, a lvl 50 ability with a ONE  HOUR RESET    hello fluff</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Every hour an assassin can one shot kill a non ^ mob,  whoopdy doo</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ask any 40+ Brigand how many one shot kills they get on non ^ mobs,  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>oh yea, that would be enough damage to outright kill a mob once per BATTLE</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>Class envy will get you no where....</P> <P>No, really...I believe Assassins need some work from developers to help increase their DPS. That being said....</P> <P>...this is a thread about Brigands, so start a "we want faster timers on our powers" or a "please increase our DPS" thread on the Assassin portion of these boards, you may actually reach the audience that will support you and folks that can make that happen. </P> <P>Your envy-ladened speech above will get you one-starred faster than Zagat's at Pancho's all you can eat Mexican Buffet.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Rake]

<DIV>Actualy zerimar i was replying to Shortbus who has been posting his ignorance over at the assassin's board as well as here.  If you care to, read the thread </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>over there,  if not, then don't  =)   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for the stars,  who cares?  really?  lol  here ya go,  5 stars for you !   and for everybody on this thread!  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><3</DIV>

[Play-D]

<DIV>I agree some falsehoods are going around other boards as to what kind of damage capabilities we have, and how much utility we really have to offer. I doubt this thread will change their minds though, and in fact it will most likley appear to those who disbeleive as an attempt to avoid a nerfbat.</DIV>

[Sierrus]

<DIV>i'm curious what lvl's u guys are ?...... i'm a lvl 50 Brigand been so for awhile, was first 50 brig on server..  we are not overpowered, we do good dps, but we are not the highest dps, we do not outdmg assassins at lvl 50  certain mobs we can beat them, 3/4 of the time we do not  and when did ruse hit for 3000+ ? my highest hit is 1621 with adept 3....  Assassins have 50% haste they can keep up entire time, Brigands get 35 second haste, with a 5 minute refresh, Assassins have a spell called Assassins mark that does HUGE damage  on a boss mob about 3x the amt of dmg as any brigand spell.  Ruse is also worthless on ALL epic encounters.. you step into barrage range u get a nice 5k+ swing and your dead instantly.   Bruisers outdmg us 4/5ths of the time....   </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i'm not saying Brigands are bad as i quite like mine, i'm just really curious where these numbers are coming from.....   here's some parsing info from some previous mobs.  there'll be some differences depending on who else is in the group ont he raids but here are a few numbers.</DIV> <DIV>also i have Adept 3 Shiv, Ruse, Gambit, Master 1 Hidden Shiv * yes it outdmgs Craven it's sad*, Aggravated Assault adept 3, desperate thrust adept 3, Waylay adept 3.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>King Zalak the Ancient - 36,153 dmg inflicted Sierrus 50 Brigand</DIV> <DIV>                                    -  40, 971 dmg inflicted Frosin 50 Assassin </DIV> <DIV>                                    -  40 , 147 dmg inflicted Kworl 50 Monk</DIV> <DIV>                                    -  40,327 dmg inflicted Akuma 50 Assassin  </DIV> <DIV>                                    -  34,571 dmg inflicted Logan 50 Bruiser</DIV> <DIV>                                    -  43,673 dmg inflicted Unnamed 50 Bruiser</DIV> <DIV>                                    </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>this is standard sometimes even lower, rarely higher  we are not overpowered at all... if anything we could use a boost   i'll post up anothe rparse when i get some  doing a few raids tonight  sometimes i can end up 20,000 dmg behind....    it's actually quite dissapointing if u look at it..  our main job is to do dmg and  getting beat my bruisers/monks that can also be the groups Maintank ? ..    if Ruse where to be useable from front/back  and poisons worked it'd put scouts where we should be,  i did ap [Removed for Content]  with a cple poisons  out of the 100 procs  389 dmg went through... that was well worth the 50 silver a charge eh ? .</DIV>

[Sierrus]

<DIV>i found another parse this is of Arch Lich Udadan  i got prismatic / sbd / pristine ebon wpns to.. it's not like i'm hitting low using grey wpns hehe</DIV> <DIV>this is just from Frosin, other guild assassin overaggroed and died ;p  will post another cple also </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>  Frosin 50 Assassin</DIV> <DIV>          start         end    duration    total dps  </DIV> <DIV>slash 05:55:01 06:04:19 00:09:18 23151 34.36 41.49  937 321 74.48 52 8 24.71<BR>Garrote 05:55:05 05:56:14 00:01:09 503 0.75 7.29 2  0 100.00 280 223 251.50<BR>Agonizing Strike 05:55:11 05:55:49 00:00:38 21241 31.53 558. 97 62 0 100.00 572 234 342.60<BR>Voracious Soul 05:55:14 06:03:58 00:08:44 969 1.44 1.85 11 4  73.33 108 63 88.09<BR>Vengeful Faith 05:55:14 05:55:27 00:00:13 159 0.24 12.23 3  0 100.00 53 53 53.00<BR>Bloodthirster 05:56:12 05:57:26 00:01:14 1220 1.81  16.49 2 0 100.00 633 587 610.00<BR>Punch Blade 05:56:16 06:04:18 00:08:02 7423 11.02 15.40  25 0 100.00 505 159 296.92<BR>Ykesha's Wrath 05:56:25 06:02:40 00:06:15 877 1.30 2.34 10  1 90.91 103 63 87.70<BR>Lingering Blow 05:56:39 06:04:05 00:07:26 6958 10.33 15.60 1 29 0 100.00 201 40 53.94<BR>Predatory Salve Strike 05:56:53 06:03:46 00:06:53 838 1.24 2.03 8  3 72.73 123 78 104.75<BR>Infected Wound 05:56:55 05:57:44 00:00:49 422 0.63 8.61 2 0  100.00 234 188 211.00<BR>Seeping Wound 05:56:59 06:04:05 00:07:06 498 0.74 1.17 7 0  100.00 99 49 71.14<BR>Condemning Blade 05:57:54 05:57:54 00:00:01 1307 1.94 1307.00  1 0 100.00 1307 1307 1307.00<BR>Cripple 05:59:09 06:03:34 00:04:25 233 0.35 0.88 2  0 100.00 119 114 116.50<BR>Bloodlusted Wounds 06:00:02 06:00:13 00:00:11 279 0.41 25.36 4  0 100.00 102 59 69.75<BR>Vladaminn's Slaughtersault 06:00:06 06:03:42 00:03:36 304 0.45  1.41 2 0 100.00 153 151 152.00<BR>Mask of Night 06:02:29 06:02:58 00:00:29 601 0.89 20.72 3  0 100.00 220 182 200.33<BR>Shadow Assault 06:03:41 06:04:12 00:00:31 334 0.50 10.77  4 0 100.00 127 48 83.50<BR>Bristles 06:03:53 06:03:59 00:00:06 60 0.09 10.00  2 0 100.00 30 30 30.00<BR>Total:    00:09:19 67377  120.53      </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Logan            <BR>slash 05:55:08 06:04:18 00:09:10 17745 21.85 32.26  288 60 82.76 145 0 61.61<BR>crush 05:55:08 06:04:18 00:09:10 27390 33.72 49.80  346 84 80.47 275 22 79.16<BR>Dynamism 05:55:09 06:04:05 00:08:56 2340 2.88 4.37  13 1 92.86 232 33 180.00<BR>Roundhouse 05:55:18 06:04:17 00:08:59 3987 4.91 7. 40 19 0 100.00 300 110 209.84<BR>flame bolt 05:55:21 06:03:11 00:07:50 1322 1.63 2.81 15  3 83.33 144 38 88.13<BR>Pummel 05:55:34 06:03:50 00:08:16 1810 2.23 3.65 1 7 1 94.44 173 26 106.47<BR>Crusher 05:55:44 06:03:30 00:07:46 1703 2.10 3.65  6 0 100.00 446 35 283.83<BR>Seed of Fire 05:56:02 06:04:02 00:08:00 2378 2.93 4.95 23  4 85.19 186 31 103.39<BR>Eye Rake 05:56:36 06:02:35 00:05:59 1042 1.28 2.90 6 0  100.00 287 104 173.67<BR>Hammer Fist 05:56:37 06:03:29 00:06:52 562 0.69 1.36 11 0  100.00 71 37 51.09<BR>Savage Blows 05:57:40 06:04:13 00:06:33 3830 4.72 9.75 24  0 100.00 275 105 159.58<BR>Burning Lunge 05:57:56 06:03:38 00:05:42 4113 5.06 12.03 1 7 0 100.00 356 58 241.94<BR>Crushing Fury 05:58:01 06:04:15 00:06:14 9059 11.15 24.22 9 6 0 100.00 150 53 94.36<BR>Meteor Punch 05:58:12 06:04:06 00:05:54 2591 3.19 7.32 8  0 100.00 500 175 323.88<BR>Dirty Punch 05:58:31 06:03:35 00:05:04 1351 1.66 4.44 4  0 100.00 374 296 337.75<BR>Vehemence 06:02:59 06:02:59 00:00:01 0 0.00 0.00 0  1 0.00 0 0 0.00<BR>Total:    00:09:11 81223  147.41      </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You            <BR>slash 05:55:12 06:04:19 00:09:07 22699 37.20 41.50  791 145 84.51 160 0 28.70<BR>Hidden Shiv 05:55:12 06:04:05 00:08:53 5467 8.96 10.26 35  0 100.00 470 56 156.20<BR>poison 05:55:12 06:03:45 00:08:33 416 0.68 0.81 6  42 12.50 114 53 69.33<BR>Aggravated Assault 05:55:13 06:04:10 00:08:57 4038 6.62 7.52  27 0 100.00 216 89 149.56<BR>Waylay 05:55:15 06:04:13 00:08:58 3126 5.12 5.81 1 3 0 100.00 339 152 240.46<BR>Seed of Fire 05:55:16 06:04:06 00:08:50 3173 5.20 5.99 24  1 96.00 171 64 132.21<BR>Desperate Thrust 05:55:16 06:04:11 00:08:55 2934 4.81 5.48 1 2 0 100.00 344 171 244.50<BR>Dirty Blow 05:55:18 06:03:47 00:08:29 1219 2.00 2.39 6 0  100.00 228 156 203.17<BR>Gambit 05:55:22 06:04:08 00:08:46 3684 6.04 7.00 1 6 0 100.00 412 154 230.25<BR>Subdue 05:55:26 06:04:14 00:08:48 1539 2.52 2.91 7  0 100.00 310 144 219.86<BR>Elisi's Merciless Shank 05:55:54 06:03:34 00:07:40 4144 6.79 9.01 32  0 100.00 227 80 129.50<BR>Elisi's Finishing Shank 05:56:03 05:57:37 00:01:34 627 1.03 6.67 3 0  100.00 215 198 209.00<BR>Prismatic Shard 05:56:04 06:03:29 00:07:25 1340 2.20 3.01 9  2 81.82 184 101 148.89<BR>Dynamism 05:56:20 06:03:29 00:07:09 1111 1.82 2.59  10 0 100.00 170 76 111.10<BR>Blooming Flames 05:56:28 06:04:19 00:07:51 663 1.09 1.41 4  0 100.00 221 43 165.75<BR>Surprise Blow 05:56:38 05:56:38 00:00:01 510 0.84 510.00 1  0 100.00 510 510 510.00<BR>Concealed Blade 05:57:03 06:04:17 00:07:14 619 1.01 1.43 4 0  100.00 180 118 154.75<BR>Murderous Rake 05:57:41 06:03:06 00:05:25 645 1.06 1.98 4 0  100.00 203 108 161.25<BR>Run Through 05:57:47 06:03:58 00:06:11 2475 4.06 6.67  14 1 93.33 387 40 176.79<BR>Debilitate 05:58:15 06:02:13 00:03:58 33 0.05 0.14  3 0 100.00 14 8 11.00<BR>Arcane Trickery 06:02:23 06:02:23 00:00:01 556 0.91 556.0 0 1 0 100.00 556 556 556.00<BR>Total:    00:09:08 61018  111.35      </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bruiser beat me by 20k+   45ishk dmg just from auto attack.....  if our poisons work as meant and wheren't resisted 99% of time this wouldn't hurt...  my regular attacks 22,699 dmg.   that's using Prismatic swiftblade *best sword in game*, and a Pristine Forged Ebon Sabre</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Zerim]

<DIV>This is a group encounter last week - I was 44 at the time (still am).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Total Damage: Damager Recieved: DPS</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>GRP 190921:18036:339.7<BR>HH crik 2020:surprise blow<BR>crik 53111:2535:94.5<BR>kalantia 49692:2038:88.4<BR>sythrak 40031:12822:71.2<BR>zycrynn 34957:0:62.2<BR>cassiopeia 13130:641:23.4<BR>Dead Mob : dreadwake</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So does the damage just fall off at higher levels ?</DIV>

[Gyilok]

<DIV>Crik, you seem to be forgetting the fact that the master version of Ruse that you and a few others possess is not available for all of us, which makes your overall dmg a few thousands higher, especially in longer fights where you use it more than once, but I think the main thing is that we don't get a real dmg dealer after lvl 21(which seems to get more and more resists or something, cant figure out really), only smaller ones with dots which are doing well if you chain cast them, keeps dmg higher then other melee classes (monks, assassins), using lots of power, our auto attack isn't near the kungfu boys, since their main dmg comes from selfbuffs, hastes and then just standing there with auto attack switched on</DIV> <DIV>before the mage boost i never had problems beating any class in group when they wanted to do some parsing, that only with ruse adept 3, the others adept 1, but the nearer we are getting to lvl 50 the more of our dmg fades compared to other classes (tho I am still satisfied at lvl 49 atm)</DIV> <DIV>I think If someone would do some testing with using the tier 3 skills at same skill lvl and then the tier 5 ones, the result would not make such a big increase as you would expect or as the hp of the mobs increase during the period you get from tier 3-5</DIV> <DIV>still have to figure out how I will perform in real epic fights (Gyrok&Co, etc are not real epics), but I will still love my brigand if I dont do the best dmg in raid <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>edit: just a little addition, looking at the dots of craven delight and run through each with a 30-40-ish dot, anyone else thinking it's meant to be a joke?</DIV><p>Message Edited by Gyilok on <span class=date_text>02-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:11 AM</span>

[Sinadi]

Damage arts don't scale well with levels, at least that I've noticed. I don't think even adept 3 Craven Delight gives master 1 Hidden Shiv a run for its money(a short DPS buff is worth jack and sh...and you know who left town), and IMO that's kind of sad. Because I was fortunate enough to get a master 1 skill, I need another master 1 skill to upgrade the higher level art, even though the level difference is so wide?If they're going to leave brawlers damage as is, they ought to add some back positional requirements to their highest damage combat arts. Something is not quite right when they can tank better, AND do better damage but we have all sorts of positional requirements to meet for our most damaging skills.

[Zerim]

<DIV>I gotta tell ya, maybe its just the people I tend to group with, but even in shorter battles I am normally not outdamaged and more frequently than not Ruse may not be ready for use. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In other battles when I <STRONG>can</STRONG> get Ruse off, even when fighting with warlocks that have an Adept 3 version of Nil Distortion (which in my experience - since the wiz/warlock buff does comparable damage to Master 1 Ruse) I finish ahead of them in damage/DPS. Last night I grouped with a 48 warlock for 90 minutes or so before he logged out and I finished ahead of him in DPS I'd estimate 7 outta 10 times - I don't know maybe he was just slacking.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That being said, I agree with statement or inference that our total DPS does not seem to scale up well. The gap with which I had been beating other DPS classes in total damage per encounter is fading - and has been since I hit level 40. And though I am not a number cruncher I would dare say if other classes' damage continues to scale like it is now, I will not be able to stay ahead or really keep up with a lot of folks by the time I get to 50.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Sierrus]

<DIV>i'm referring to our DPS in a raid setting where Ruse is 100% cut out, and our lack of 50% haste hurts,  their self buff / proc turns into huge dmg at end of it  every one of our utility stun/interupts are useless.    If we could use ruse without having to deal with barrage from a lvl 50-58 Triple Up our dmg increase would be great.   if our poisons landed 25% of swings like the description sais Bruisers would be no prob to beat.</DIV>

[Zerim]

<DIV>Thanks for the insight Sierrus - bleak though it may be, as I intend to be raiding quite a bit soon with my guild.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Sierrus]

<DIV>p.s. i was outdmging pretty much everyone, it starts to fade out the higher into 40 you get. and at lvl 50 a warlock who's paying attn has insane DPS .....  i beat em 1/5 times... usually cause he is a [Removed for Content] and overaggro's and explodes ;p    when u factor warlock dps   u gotta add him and his pet.     give us poisons that work, make Craven Delight not suck and actually be an upgrade to our lvl 24 hidden shiv,  let ruse work from behind and we are the win! ;p</DIV>

[Hirebra]

<font size=+2>People who try to get other classes nerfed because their damage is higher are despicable.</font>