need suggestions: which tier 5 skill to upgrade to adept 3

[Gyilok]

<DIV>my best guess is run through atm, but it wont be that good when they fix smugglers talent, any ideas?</DIV>

[Gy]

<DIV>Shiv, that was a good investment!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I also went with concealed blade, the adept 3 version does not do a huge amount more damage but it is one of the only ways we can do crushing damage which works on almost all high end raid mobs they have in game right now. This is good because many of them resist piercing and several resist or partially resist slashing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I upgraded aggravated assult as well and although the damage is great, I still find I use the tripple attack one we get, from one of those 4 choice abilities we get every 10 lvs, more often then that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The thing I really want to know about is debilitate. I have heard other classes debuffs hardly do anything more at adept 3 so I am hesitant. If it does upgrade alot though then it would certainly be worth it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another thing I am wondering about upgrading is craven delight. Although it is tier 4 it is our last in the backstab line. I still use hidden shiv at the moment because I have had master I for a while and craven delight has never touched the damage. I keep wondering if I upgrade it to adept 3 will it be a waste or actually ro more.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What are you talking about run through being useless when they fix smugglers talent? Anyway as for the upgrade I havent got that one yet but even if it does more damage, casting shadow slip and then that take a lot longer then casting any one of our other skills so I would divide its damage by 2 when comparing it to other skills.</DIV>

[General]

<DIV>Debilitate, Concealed Blade, Murderous Rake, Aggrovated Assault, Dirty Blow, Waylay...(I have all mine at adept 3 just thinking which I like best).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Gyan, the difference from adept 1 to adept 3 on Deb wasnt huge. However, It is also never resisted now on mobs such as Cursed, and VoV. I land it constantly, and that was only after the upgrade, so I can assume it was a good upgrade.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Generol</DIV> <DIV>Neriak</DIV> <DIV>Leader of Legacy</DIV><p>Message Edited by General01 on <span class=date_text>02-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:03 AM</span>

[b3taha]

Debilitate would be my first one.

[Gyilok]

<DIV>Gyan, I still prefer the training merciless shank over shiv, adept 1 shiv doesnt go near it, does adept 3 make that much difference?</DIV> <DIV>about the smuglers talent with run through: I never said it was useless, just currently if you cast smugglers talent while engaged in combat, you can use stealth attacks in that encounter all the time, and thou it is nice now, it is gonna be fixed for sure</DIV> <DIV>I too use the training multiple attack over aggravated assault aswell, it hits 3 times almost for the same damage/stike as aggravated assault twice, though I might use aggravated more often for the piercing debuff</DIV> <DIV>I guess I will be going for debilitate first since it gives  a boost to my damage whatever skills I use (still 3 lvls away grr), didnt see adept for it</DIV> <DIV>oh how I would love if strange black ore was worth anything, or could be mad into adept 3, tend to harvest them the most</DIV>

[Gy]

<DIV>Shiv (Adept III) does on average low 200s on initial hit but I have seen it do 370s and the dot tick at lv 50 goes 74-150-150</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Didnt get the other one as a skill but you can compare</DIV>

[Gyilok]

<DIV>"i have the Merciless shank , and i really do enjoy it , im lvl 50 , , first when you click it it does about 280+90 dmg then 2x 161 dmg dot , then 161+ the finisihing hit of 280-350 , it is alot better than lvl 46 Shiv. i wouldnt chance my trait"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>stolen from Gandof82, from another thread, I still think its better then adept 3 shiv</DIV><p>Message Edited by Gyilok on <span class=date_text>02-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:22 PM</span>

[Gy]

<DIV>I just used the respec to get the shank upgrade but I find that shiv adept 3 is better.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The dot damage on the shank one is 80 - 161 -161 which 28 more then the dot of shiv, but the avg damage of the initial hit is much lower. Sure I got high hits on certain normal mobs but on those same mobs I hit for 300-450 on initial shiv hit. Other tough mobs and raid type things where shiv does low 200s normal hit the shank one only does 140-180 avg which is more then 28 less then the shiv average.</DIV>

[Gyilok]

<DIV>I see your point there, but did you take in account the finishing shank too? it comes right after the last dot, and does about the same as the initial</DIV>

[zjusti]

heh, i think upgrading deliblitate will only increase the damage, and the amt of ac debuffed unchanged... anyone test it yet?i upgraded aggravated assault, but it's not all that.. also upgraded concealed blade, but also it isn't all that... i also upgraded Dirty Blow.. i think it's doing like 370damage right now though PI still use Shank, since i have a shank master 1 ~ initial is usually 240~ w/ 120 per tick for 4 ticks i think~~i don't recommend upgrading murderous rake, i got a master 1 copy... and it's only doing like 280-90 damage.. pretty sadfor lvl40 training! i took the debuff w/ manatap.. since i compared shank vs. 40training! shank.. and my master1 shank use lower mana, and the damage is about the same~ the debuff is nice, however, for HO etc. usually it drains from 32-52mana per tap~ and refreshes at 10secs~ if u do it every 10secs in a long fight , pretty useful~o, and the reason i think delibitate adept3 debuff same ac as app1 is because.. i upgraded aggravated assasult and ~~~ i don't remember seeing AC debuff from aggr. assault changed~<p>Message Edited by zjustin2 on <span class=date_text>02-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:10 AM</span><p>Message Edited by zjustin2 on <span class=date_text>02-24-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:21 AM</span>

[Gyilok]

<DIV>as I understood from General's post the real difference with upgrading debilitate was not the dmg, nor the ac debuff, but the more it sticks, and that even raidmobs dont resist it, would love to see it if it stacks with master strikes, could make some types of mobs defenseless <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>