Brigand Issues - Old

[ag]

<b><font size=7>This thread is no longer maintained in this forum. It has been moved to the Community Summit forum.</font></b> <b>If you want something specific added to the official issues list, please send me a private message, and I'll add it.</b> Otherwise, I'll just check the Brigand forums daily, and add any new posts that show up here. ---<strike> <i>Added 20050315</i> -Craven Walk and Lurk feign death (Cower) is extremely problematic. You can use sit/stand to cancel the effect. However, one nasty side effect is FD'ing from AE/Barrage damage while in group encounters when trying to use stealth arts like Bushwhack. While solo'ing, it is also possible that you will FD after you start fighting, because Cower lasts as a buff after it breaks. Either the FD needs to be instant, only at break, or the game engine needs to distinguish between a self-break and a mob break of CW/Lurk, and only FD if it's a mob-break, and/or remove the Cower effect if it's a self-break. <b>Unfortunately, this does not solve the problem of AoEs breaking the sneak during group encounters and having the Brigand faceplant during the opening rounds of combat. I'm not sure if there's a solution to having FD on these Skills. It might be better to have a totally different effect on the Skill, and drop the whole FD idea. How about an encounter snare on break? Any other ideas, Brigands? Please post them in this thread. Something is different about our FD now, as of 20050427. It appears that we don't lose all our buffs when we FD? Need confirmation of this. - still active 20050527, removing on 20050617, as there's been no dev feedback of any kind, and Brigands are learning to live with this.</b> </strike> <strike> <i>Added 20050404</i> -There are no messages in any window for the procs from Deceit. - Please add proc messages in one of the combat chat categories for the procs from Deceit - still active 20050527 </strike> <b> Fixed on or about April 19th, there are now proc messages such as: A magma wormling is struck by Deceitful Tactics. </b> <strike> <i>Added 20050228</i> -More Tracking Interface: When you sort by name, you cannot "unsort by name" or return to the default behavior of tracking by distance unless you relog. Please add the option to change the sort back to the default mode without having to relog.</strike> <b>- This issue will be fixed with LU#9 on the week of May 23rd.</b> <strike> <i>Added 20050413</i> From Andai: -The level 39 rare poison Wave of Decomposition results in a poison vial that's grey at lvl 38 and has one proc per charge (!!). ... Live update #6 fixed it so the poison mentioned above is yellow to me at lvl 39, but it still has only one proc per charge so it's still broken. ...</strike> <b>This is apparently by design, as there have been no dev posts to the contrary in a month. Although considering the thing has only one charge, you would hope it would have a vastly superior effect. <img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </b> <strike> <i>Added 20050413</i> From Taraxus: -Plead for Mercy and Pray for Mercy still on the same timer and still lowering hate (comparing adept 1 versions) by the same value. Please upgrade the higher version or remove the same timer. Nevertheless the decrease of the hate has to be upgrade cause with the current values they are completely useless. Run Through doesnt fit the line of brigand spells because we havent any previous attack putting us into stealth like assassins. Statistics: If we make high hits with Ruse (melee ability) we arent listed in the eq2players statistics.</strike> <b>This issue will be addressed in LU#9, during the week of May 23rd</b> <strike> <i>Added 20050413</i> From Play-Doh: (some issues with upgrading spells not being effectivescaling properly) -Beg for Mercy/ Plead for mercy; Same spell last I checked with too large a cast time for both. Ruse Adept3/Master1; Doesn't scale properly, master gives roughly 80 percent more damage then adept3. Mug Adept1/Master1; Only debuffs one more point of agility. - Pretty straightforward stuff here, I'll add my own annoyance with long casting times on our evades. 1 or 2 seconds would be preferred over 3 seconds. Also, the Lie Low and Shadow Slip combat arts appear to be identical? What is different about them? Same goes for Snarl and Tangle. They're identical, except Tangle uses more power? Why are there two separate abilities? - still active 20050505</strike><b>This issue with Plead/Beg for Mercy will be addressed in LU#9, during the week of May 23rd. I'll create two more items for lie low/shadow-slip and snarl/tangle</b> <strike> <i>Added 20050421</i> -Encounter snares (<u>Both Tangle AND Snarl</u>) are no longer snaring encounters. They only snare a single target in the encounter. - Please fix encounter snares so they snare encounters, as they did prior to LU #7</strike> <b>fixed in LU#8</b> <strike> <i>Added 20050413</i> From Gyilok: -Blackguard gives additional str over buffs too, will check ingame once more tho, but as i remember it only doesnt stack with aegis properly so aegis (which is always on)giving 10 str+ blackguard 22 will come out at +22</strike> <b>covered in the stacking post</b> <strike> <i>Added 20050310</i> -From Cheeb of Neriak: The Brigand combat art Forceful Negotiation is not working as intended or implied. It does do the stated damage to the target encounter but it does not increase the Agility of the caster for the duration of the effect. Would be nice to see this implemeted. Thanks and keep up the good work. </strike><b>covered in the stacking post</b> <strike> <i>Added 20050204</i> -Reduce the re-use timer on Clobber. Why in Brells name is it 10 minutes? how about 1 minute? That'd be good. And it'd also be nice to be able to use it on anyone, as it has absolutely no impact other than roleplaying visual effect. It does not affect movement, casting, or anything else at all. </strike><b>as of 20050420, Clobber re-use timer is now 1 minute</b> <strike> <i>Added 20050204</i> -It would be nice if Pathfinding could be cast on the run, had a longer duration or had a shorter cast time. (permanent effect after level 40?) Recasting this buff every 15 minutes for 45 levels gets just a <i>tad</i> tedious. Why is this the only buff we can't cast while moving? - Unlikely this will ever change, but I'm leaving it because I'm a desperate optimist</strike> <b>as of 20050420, Pathfinding can now be cast on the run. Also as of 20050511, Pathfinding lasts 30 minutes</b> <strike> <i>Added 20050408</i> -The duration of Deceit is too short. 36 seconds every 300? That needs to be longer. 72 or 144 would be ideal. - Please increase the duration of Deceit</strike> <b>As of 20050420, Deceit is now 72 seconds</b> <strike> <i>Added 20050204</i> -It would be really nice if we could actually move at a reasonable speed (run speed?) while stealthed, at some point, ever. - And while we're at it, I'd like a flying carpet... nyuk nyuk - Some love for this, if only visually, on 20050323, as we no longer duck-walk with stealth speeds of 32% or faster.</strike> <b>Dead horse, should have a wish list for stuff like this.</b> <strike> <i>Added 20050204</i> -Where is our level 30 fun spell? Are we supposed to have one? If not, can you post that information publicly, please? Another suggestion would be to move our illusion: Ogre to level 30, and give us something really cool at level 50 that's distinctive for our sub-class. How about a group Clobber? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - 20050323: I've seen absolutely no response on this one in any way. Maybe we're not supposed to get it? Not sure why we're different than everyone else.. If you have any suggestions for this "missing" fun spell, post them in the thread.</strike> <b>After checking with other scouts and fighters, it appears we're in line with 3 abilities from 20 to 50. So stop whining and get stabbing! <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></b> <strike> <i>Added 20050204</i> -Evade Combat arts do not work 50%+ of the time. Usually the Brigand has to use 3 or 4 to get any kind of hate loss, and if they continue to attack during this time, they _NEVER_ work. If the de-hate Combat Arts require you to stop attacking, they should automatically stop attacking for you. If they don't, they should be modified to work even while attacking. Sometimes even after using all 3 of my class/sub-class de-hates, I am forced to use my racial de-hate to lose aggro. On even rarer occasions, nothing works, and I end up tanking. - Short version, stop attacking when using any Evade art while grouping. Some mobs need a stun, and/or you need to move out of melee range to "encourage" them to stop attacking you. Still seems broken to me, in that mobs don't re-evaluate the aggro list appropriately. However, provide feedback in this thread if this is not your personal experience.</strike> <b>Removed on 20050412, as this appears to be common knowledge now. If you're having aggro issues, use Self Preservation, pro-actively Evade, or use Lie Low or Shadow Slip when you get it. Lie Low and Shadow Slip are by far the best evades we have.</b> <strike> <i>Added 20050327</i> -All of the effects with a snare component break (basically) instantly during combat, especially when fighting in a group. There's very little incentive to use these arts when their effect (apparently) wears off instantly during a fight. If there were separate icons for the attack-speed-slow, movement-speed-slow, defense debuff, str debuff, agi debuff, etc for every art, then we could see (or not) that the separate effects were not tied to the snare. Of course, this presumes they are NOT tied to snare, which we can only presume now that we don't see them separately. - Please add individual effect icons for all negative effects associated with combat arts that have a snare component. Or tell us they're not tied to the snare effect. </strike><b>- removed in favor of a more specific posting </b> <strike> <i>Added 20050407</i> Frizznik is looking at poisons and has <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=a13&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;message.i d=4937#M4937" target="_blank">said</a> there will be changes to the number of procs (doubling to 200) - Nope, still only 100 procs as of 20050407. Also, debuff poisons should be 80 procs, not 40.</strike><b> Fixed as of 20050411</b> <strike> <i>Added 20050404</i> -The duration and/or effectiveness of Knave, Deceit, and Daring Advance is insufficient for most fights after level 45+. If the intent is to have these skills be attractive enough to actually bother using, then change their duration to at least 72 seconds instead of 36 seconds (~144-150 seconds would be fantastic). On any fight with a Group x 2,3,4 encounter (5-10+ minutes) these Combat Arts are laughably short with annoyingly long timer refreshes. 36 out of every 600 seconds (for Deceit) is such a small amount that it's easy to forget the skill is even there. - Please increase the duration of Knave, Deceit, and Daring Advance, or vastly increase their effectiveness during their duration. - still active 20050407 </strike><b>addressed Knave and Daring advance lines in LU #6, Deceit is still out of whack, so I'm going to make a new item for it.</b> <strike> <i>Added 20050204</i> -Reduce the re-use timer on our illusions (such as wood-elf). Again, no reason for it to be a 10 minute re-cast. need to verify this has been fixed after live update #6 </strike><b>This has been fixed in live update #6. no re-use timers for illusions!</b> <strike> <i>Added 20050310</i> -From Eris: Rough skin STR bonus and knave strength bonus do not stack. Dunno if its bug or intended but well worth mentioning it here since i havent found anything from dev stating its how it should be. </strike><b>Fixed as of 20050406</b> <strike> <i>Added 20050228</i> -Many of the Combat Art upgrades (App4, Adept1, Adept3, Master1) do not appear to offer any "better" effect other than an arbitrary increase in power. Please examine each of the update paths in each Combat Art line to ensure there are tangible and significant (actually noticable during gameplay) improvements for each Combat Art upgrade. - This appears to be a global problem with all T5 arts for all sublcasses. It really needs some attention. App1 to Adept1/3 is a tangible upgrade. Adept 1 to Adept 3 or Adept 1/3 to Master 1 is not. </strike><b>Apparently a dead horse, removing on 20050407</b> <strike> <i>Added 20050204</i> -There are no poisons outside of 50,100,150,200 skill. NPC poisons need to be graduated by 10 by tier. For example, within tier2, it should be possible to purchase 100,110,120,130,140 skill poisons. Player crafted poisons should have enough charges so that per charge, they are CHEAPER TO USE than NPC purchased poisons. All poisons should have charges shown on them (if they don't already) regardless if they're purchased or crafted. A bug that has been outstanding since beta is that if you haven't equipped the poison in your current play session, you have to unequip it and re-equip it for the Use menu to appear. Fix this bug, please. - Still active as of 20050404. My own cost analysis shows it is currently "better" to buy NPC poisons, strictly from a time/cost vs. damage perspective. However, Frizznik is looking at poisons and has <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=a13&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;message.i d=4937#M4937" target="_blank">said</a> there will be changes to the number of procs (doubling to 200) as well as he's looking into the <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=a13&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;message.i d=4939#M4939" target="_blank">issue</a> of them being resisted all the time after you're halfway through a tier.</strike> <b>fixed as of 20050406</b> <strike> <i>Added 20050404</i> -There will be a possible change coming to Ruse in live patch #6: - Ruse will now activate any time an enemy performs a hostile action on the brigand rather than only when the brigand is hit. - 20050404: Why is this being changed again? The updated skill description implies whoever is making this change doesn't understand how/why Ruse is used in groups, and/or how it works today, as this will actually be a step backward compared to it's current functionality. It's fine the way it is.</strike> <b>no change was made, hopefully this is as intended.</b> <strike> <i>added 20050322</i> From Gyilok: all combat arts have a decreased damage in description, my waylay has lost about 70 dmg from max, this was the most obvious, but also Subdue has lots about 50, going from 371 to 321 for example, maybe to get them nearer to the amounts you are actually hitting for, maybe not, only ruse has the same dmg indicated but that aint worth shet as we all know. to sum it all up there have been a lot of changes to our skills without any notice AGAIN. - Please return all combat arts to their previous damage, or make a public statement indicating why these have changed</strike><b> No response forthcoming, dead horse </b> <strike> <i>added 20050322</i> From Andai: Sap, the upgrade skill to Black Jack, seem to not be HO-active as Black Jack is. Just noticed it last night so i'm not sure if this was the case pre-patch also. - Please return Sap to it's pre-patch functionality, including HO-icon</strike> <b>seems to be working for me, as of 20050326 </b> <strike> <i>Added 20050321</i> As per <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=34&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;message.id =2258" target="_blank">this thread</a> Lie Low appears to be completely broken. This is one of the few detaunts we have that actually occasionally works, so this one is going to be painful. - Please return Lie Low to it's previous functionality.</strike> <b>Seems to be working again for me, as of 20050326</b> <strike> <i>Added 20050204</i> -Most Brigand skills have persistent effects on creatures, but no indication in the maintained spell window. Examples of this would be the Rake line, some snare spells, defense debuffs, slows, stuns, and racial sinister strikes. We need to know how long-lasting and how effective these combat arts are. The Bum Rush icon remains in the maintained spell window forever, and must be manually cancelled if the creature dies before the DoT portion of Bum Rush wears off. However, we're still missing greater than half of our effect icons. How long does the Rake line last? How long does the attack-speed slowdown from Snag last? It'd be <b>really</b> nice to know. Please add all debuffs, slows, stuns, and any other negative maintained effect in the Maintained Spells Window. Having the timer on the skill description is insufficient. - Still active as of 20050324, we still don't know, for example, how long the attack-speed-slow lasts on Snag. </strike><b>Taking this one off, as there have been massive improvements in this area, with many of the skills showing up in the spell effects windows now. I think we're to the point where individual skills need to be addressed, so if you know of a skill with an effect that you don't see in the window, post it in this thread and I'll add it to the list.</b> <strike> <i>Added 20050321</i> As per <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=34&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;message.id =2230" target="_blank">this thread</a> Ruse has been broken, again. The skill does not fire randomly, fires randomly, sometimes works, but usually doesn't. You can't try to move, attack, queue an art, breathe hard, or move your eyeballs, or it completely skips the damage portion of the effect. However, on the positive side, Brigands are taking full damage for at least 10 seconds now, which is really great while solo'ing, and also for the the healers, while grouping. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> It would be better if the code branch that includes Ruse is set to read only please, so that these types of things don't happen in the future. Given Ruse is basically a sub-class defining Combat Art, it would also be good to actually test the skill before it hits production. - Please return Ruse to it's functionality as it was on 20050320.</strike> - <b>This was fixed in a patch as of 20050324</b> <strike> <i>Added 20050228</i> -More Heroic Opportunity issues: When completing group multi-icon HO's, in order or out of order, if the combat art the Brigand uses to complete the HO <u>does no damage</u> then the HO does nothing. It completes, but it does nothing. An example of this would be if the Brigand used a Snare or self-buff to complete an HO. Please change the group HO's so that they 'fire' the effect irrespective of a damage art or a non-damage art when completing them.</strike> <b>Fixed as of 20050309. If you know of a non-damaging art that does not complete a solo or group HO, post it in this thread</b> <strike> <i>Added 20050228</i> -Even more HO's issues: When using an AoE to complete an HO, the HO does nothing. Please change the HO's so that they 'fire' even if an AoE is used to complete them. This goes for both solo and group HO's. </strike><b>Fixed as of 20050313. If you know of an art that doesn't properly complete an HO (no dmg, no effect) please post it in this thread.</b> <strike>-All the ranged combat arts require a bow, but say they can use a ranged weapon of any kind. This has been an error since release. Either make them bow only, or permit all ranged weapons. Also, please add greater than 27m range non-bow ranged weapons. (why is everything non-longbow only 27m range?)</strike><b>Apparently this is no longer an issue, PM if it still is. Although there are still no 37m range weapons outside longbows. Grrrr. </b> <strike>-Craven Walk has been broken for weeks. It does not FD, and before it was broken, the FD never worked for being seen while sneaking. Either fix the skill so it works as intended, or change the description. (Same for Lurk, broken, broken)</strike> <b>Addressed in 20050308 patch</b> <strike>-Our Group sneaks are basically pointless in the situations where they would be useful (sneaking past whites-reds). If this is a class defining skill, it should be extraordinarily effective, not useless on blues and higher. Please increase the maximum skill for all group sneaks, so they are effective at their level range. </strike><b>Now that the level range is indicated in the detailed description of the art, /feedback or /bug is the only way to get this addressed. I'm removing it from the list, because we know the exact level of the casted stealth now.</b> <strike>- Added 20050225: I'd like to add that I believe theres a problem with strangling shot. I have been using a shortbow with carbonite arrows since level 20. I target a mob and use the CA, arrow fires, draws mobs attention and it attacks. the error is that the shot does no damage and an error comes up saying the mob is out of range. thxs - Damari </strike><b>I believe this is related to the mob moving out of range as you cast. If you have more details, and you <u>know</u> the mob is always in range, please post them in the thread</b> <strike>-Recent Ruse changes were not communicated to the playerbase, despite Ruse being a sub-class defining skill. If intended, the Ruse changes fundamentally modify the role of the player, and the playstyle of all Brigands. If ruse damage is going to be attributed to the Brigand, at least make the skill hit all the time, if it's damage is going to be nerfed by mitigation, and deflection. This is the only ability that permits Brigands to solo white con solo mobs without risking death.</strike> <b>(Ruse has been 'fixed' as of 20050206 patch message)</b> <strike>-The radius range of Escape should be noted on the skill description. No-one knows what it is, and sometimes people are left behind.</strike> <b>(addressed in Live Patch #3, 20m radius)</b> <strike>-It would be nice if the Brigand self buffs lasted longer than 3 minutes. (6? 9?) We end up refreshing them in combat.</strike> <b>(addressed in Live Patch #3, self buffs are now 15 minutes)</b><p>Message Edited by agra on <span class=date_text>06-30-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:12 AM</span>

[Ar]

<DIV>heh... pretty much sums it up, I don't need to say anything...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Arik</DIV> <DIV>35 Brigand - Oasis</DIV>

[batter_then]

<DIV>hes right... about everything think clobber should be like 1 second tho so you can do like tons of clobbering tho... that would be so fun</DIV>

[Kr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> agra wrote:<BR>Current Brigand issues<BR><BR><BR>-The radius range of evade should be noted on the skill description. No-one knows what it is, and sometimes people are left behind.<BR> <P>Message Edited by agra on <SPAN class=date_text>02-04-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:16 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Did you actually mean evade here? I'm thinking you meant escape.<BR>

[Sparafuci]

<DIV>My evade (forget what the last one is called) works like 50-70% of the time. What bothers me most is the cast time. Mobs will hit me like 10 times before I have completed and this makes healers start casting heals on me, which is kinda embarrassing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Evade should be almost instant and with a short refresh timer. If this was the case it wouldn't be too bad with the relatively low success rate. There should be a risk playing rogue after all.</DIV>

[Gyilok]

<DIV>-stuns should not be broken, since they are short duration they must not break because the mob is taking dmg</DIV> <DIV>I personally have no prblems with group sneaks, at adept 1 they hide groups from mobs7-8 lvl higher  then me, the problem with our high lvl sneaks is that they are still very slow imo</DIV> <DIV>-take out the whole snag-snare-tie up etc skill line, totally useless with only 1 ranged skill, which seems to work only with bows</DIV>

[Burd]

<DIV>Excellent and intelligent post, i agree with the points you made and hope the Devs take them into consideration!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Haze Miststalker</DIV> <DIV>27 Brigand - Grobb</DIV> <DIV>Brothers Grimm</DIV>

[Scrawl]

<DIV>I greatly appreciate you posting this list on behalf of the Brigand subclass, but some of your points are a little off.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I disagree with the following things:</DIV> <DIV>1. Ruse - The intent of the ruse skill was always to be used for pulling or aggroing mobs. If you read the description, it very clearly gives you this impression. The skill inspect info states, "A cunning attempt to trick the target. The Brigand gains the creature's attention and launches a surprise attack when the creature strikes." This description is clearly in contrast to the way Brigands could easily do 600 - 1200 damage with ruse in groups (with an adept 1 version) and experience absolutely zero risk. The risk intended to be involved with this skill is that the ruse doesnt go off until the Brigand is hit.</DIV> <DIV>2. Pathfinding - It's fine. It the only buff Brigands have to keep on their group, and a 15 minute duration is fair. Perhaps you are finding this annoying because you never notice when it fades? I have this problem. It would help if buffs would flash in the maintained buff window as they are about to fade.</DIV> <DIV>3. Group Sneaks - These are infact quite the opposite of what you stated. They are a class defining skill and are used by most Brigands in a way that is very advantageous to a group.</DIV> <DIV>4. Evades - Many of these are infact broken, but for the most part at all levels you have access to a useful evade. Beg for Mercy / Plead for Mercy are garbage and need to be fixed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would like to reiterate the following things:</DIV> <DIV>1. Sneaks - You broke them on purpose a few patches ago. Fix them. It was very clear that there was an exploit with the sneaks, however, a line of text in the patch notes saying they would be reworked would have been just fine. Is that the case? Who knows?</DIV> <DIV>2. Poisons - The merchant bought 200 skill poisons are worthless. They are always resisted. And where are the 250 skill poisons? Is this as intended?</DIV> <DIV>3. Persistent effects - Please, for the love of god, get these persistent effects in our maintained buff window. As of now, only a few of our skills with persistent debuffs / effects are appearing in our maintained buff window.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would like to add the following things:</DIV> <DIV>1. None of our debuffs last the entire duration. Dirty Tricks, Knockaround, Mug - All are not lasting the proper amount of time. This is very obvious and always happens.</DIV> <DIV>2. Bum Rush and Gambit do not last the proper duration - Bum Rush just leaves the target early, similar to Dirty Tricks, etc. Gambit has a 1 second duration and this is clearly not intended.</DIV> <DIV>3. Raid mobs - Why are at least half of the x4's in the game 50 - 100% resistant to piercing?  These same mobs are 25 - 75% resistant to slashing. Some are even fully immune. Slashers at high level are almost non existant with a few exceptions (SSOY, PGT), however, the PGT is obviously an inferior weapon at level 50. I understand that you want to implement some problems in killing these x4's, but how about spreading the problems amongst all classes. Fighters easily outdamage scouts in raid encounters with an Hcrook because it hits everything. Either let us use blunts, or fix the resists on these mobs. It's just a joke and makes us clearly inferior at high levels.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Scamp</DIV> <DIV>49 Brigand of Guk</DIV> <DIV>Ne Plus Ultra</DIV>

[Zerim]

<DIV>I value everyone's opinions and perspective on different matters related to our class. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Still, with Blackguard's post stating that he was making SOE aware of our issues concerning Ruse coupled with the <STRONG>unannounced </STRONG>changes that have so drastically affected a maintstay combat art of most Brigand's fight/encounter routine, I will wait for official clarification for how Ruse is intended to be used and defined - regardless of how one may interpret the often mislabeled or misleading combat art description.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The purpose of this thread is to emphasize powers that are broken or not working as intended. Let's try to avoid emphasizing our beliefs, inclinations, or personal understandings and let the Devs do their job with reviewing the powers that comprise our beloved class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The rest of your remarks I generally agree with.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[ag]

Yes, I meant Escape when I was talkin about effect radius. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Good additions from everyone, though.

[Sinadi]

Sap, the direct upgrade to Blackjack, has no stun component. It's supposed to. The reason I know the stun is not working is because I used Sap on raid mobs and didn't get the 'target too powerful' message I get with Blackjack. So, I suspect that Sap is just broken.Waylay, supposed to give a medium chance to stun and reduce target's defense, is completely broken. The 'side effects' currently hit the Brigand (including giving a little icon in your window with other positive/negative effects that are on you). I've yet to notice myself get stunned or my defenses affected in any way.Run Through, supposed to deal piercing damage over time, does 1 tick of extra damage right after the initial damage and sometimes it doesn't even do *that*. This is not consistent with our other piercing damage over time abilities, so I suspect it's not working as it should.

[Scrawl]

<DIV>I apologize for stating my opinion, zerimar. I thought this was a discussion. Thank you for setting me straight.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>edit: To the poster before me, sap is infact not broken. The reason you didnt get that "target too powerful" message is due to the higher skill level of sap. Also note that Craven Delight could use a bit of a boost in damage to make it a bit more of an upgrade to Hidden Shiv.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Scamp</DIV> <DIV>49 Brigand of Guk</DIV> <DIV>Ne Plus Ultra</DIV><p>Message Edited by Scrawl on <span class=date_text>02-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:15 AM</span>

[Sinadi]

I haven't tested in a while, but if I remember right, a lvl 40some monk skill has a stun attached to it much like Sap. Last time we spoke about it, my monk friend said that raid mobs were giving him the 'target too powerful' message. If that's still the case, I think Sap is bugged. I'm not willing to die on this hill without further testing though. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Craven Delight could definately use a boost in damage. I had thought it sucked because I couldn't find a decent upgrade for it vs. master 1 Hidden Shiv, but if others are finding it sucks too...

[Dubrek]

Not sure if many people had the ability to upgrade their "Evade" type skills, but when I upgraded Beg for Mercy to app4, it's now totally broken. When used it says "No eligible target". This has probably been known by a few people, but I know getting app4+ upgrades for scout classes isn't exactly the easiest thing to do. Usually when I draw agro I get in a few more hits than the tank, so one or two taunts from the tank, or a single decent hate-loss cast should break the mobs agro. That dosen't happen usually, I draw agro, and it takes me useing every, single, hate-loss spell I have at least two times (gotta wait for them to recycle) and stop useing specials so I don't continue to build hate. It's almost like when I gain hate, instead of there being a small margin of hatred that can be overcome with an easy taunt from the tank, it's like I gain hatred when the tank taunts. On a side note, my taunts appear to work just fine. It appears that gouge (taunt) was replaced with I THINK vicious stab (someone please correct me if I'm wrong about this ability). Now vicious stab dosen't say it's a taunt at all. So I'm wondering if this spell has some hate built into it that isn't described properly in the wording?

[Dubrek]

One other side note. I'd REALLY really like to have my knockdown abilities (debuffs) show up on my debuff timer bar, as well as my poisons. This would better help ALL scout classes to make sure their debuffs are sticking on the mob properly.

[Gyilok]

<DIV>the skills that were supposed to lower hate take a very long time to cast too imo, you get beat the cr*p out of you while casting them  if you turn a hard mob (lie low seems to work fine at adept 1 sometimes, but the tank has to taunt like crazy or some unlucky nuker gets instant agro when landing a big hit in the wrong moment), never even thought of upgrading the evade-beg for mercy-plead for mercy line, they are useless, maybe the one you get from training is better, but I dont have it</DIV>

[Zerim]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Scrawl wrote:<BR> <DIV>I apologize for stating my opinion, zerimar. I thought this was a discussion. Thank you for setting me straight.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>edit: To the poster before me, sap is infact not broken. The reason you didnt get that "target too powerful" message is due to the higher skill level of sap. Also note that Craven Delight could use a bit of a boost in damage to make it a bit more of an upgrade to Hidden Shiv.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Scamp</DIV> <DIV>49 Brigand of Guk</DIV> <DIV>Ne Plus Ultra</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Scrawl on <SPAN class=date_text>02-06-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:15 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>You are right Scamp, I apologize for the wording of my response, I did not mean to offend.</P> <P>Well since Ruse was returned to its original state, its clear now it <STRONG><EM>was </EM></STRONG>working as intended, at least for the time being.<BR></P> <p>Message Edited by Zerimar on <span class=date_text>02-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:07 AM</span>

[Ratt]

nice list <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> just on a small finicky note can you edit the original with an extra carraige return the large blockish nature of the dot points makes it harder for me to read it (either way its still a nice concise listing of our issue's).

[Scrawl]

<DIV>Lie Low and Slip Away are great evades. However, Plead for Mercy and Beg for Mercy are very broken. Even Pitiful Plea is better than the Mercy line at level 50.</DIV>

[Nelion]

<DIV>Clobber should be usable on anyone, not just group members, since it does no harm, only adds a roleplaying effect.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'd love to sneak up on Qeynosians, spring out of the bushes and SMACK them down. Would be great for roleplaying =) Having to invite to group first makes that pointless heh.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have alot of fun with clobber, but yeah, if anything at least lower the re-use time, since the ability is pretty much useless save for an entertainment value, whereas the fury, warden, paladin and SK ones are very useful... stats from the lion/wolf forms and the increased speed of the mounts. Clobber is fun, but it needs to have a wider range of use =) </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just my 1 maple wood... (or 2 copper anyhow =P)</DIV>

[Gyilok]

<DIV>had a good laugh reading this one: <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=40&message.id=2661" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=40&message.id=2661</A></DIV> <DIV>to sum it up: make our hits bigger with shorter recasts</DIV> <DIV>(mainly the first post, there are some no-whiners in the replies)</DIV> <DIV>interesting to see how agra's post differs from that one, though I don't agree on the group sneak part here, I find a lot of use to groupsneaking, and most people are loving it</DIV>

[ag]

My primary complaints with group sneaking are related to the fact that unless you stack it with your own stealth level, you can't sneak past whites, yellows, or orange mobs. I was under the impression that stacking it is not an intended ability, so this would be something that we would lose at some point in the future.However, if the current ability to stack the group stealth with our own stealth, but increase the group stealth effect to our personal level is intended, it's all good.

[Gyilok]

<DIV>I can take the group past orange mobs with stealthy burglary at app4, also could go past reds (7-8! lvls above me) with burgle adept 1, never had problems with effectiveness</DIV>

[Ibidu'A]

<DIV>At lvl 27 with burgle Adept1, I can sneak a group past lvl 34's in varsoon.  </DIV>

[ag]

I agree that currently Burgle appears to work fine (although I'm always personally stealthed, so that's a bit anecdotal). However, Smuggle (for me) did not.If I cast smuggle only (and not a personal stealth) in Nektulos, it was impossible for me to Smuggle my group past giants, trees, skeletons, etc, that were all green/blue before I got an upgrade to Smuggle. It may just have been the Smuggle's maximum skill was not high enough, or they've stealthed fixed it? Dunno. If all the group stealths are working great at all their level ranges, great! This wasn't the case for me, though.

[Kegofbud]

<DIV>Agra is right. The stealths start losing any ability to sneak past green and blue mobs toward the end of their life, before the next upgrade. There is no reason why a green mob should be able to see through my stealth. Just before I got craven walk, mobs could see me through my Snoop but not my Burgle so it would seem that the ability just becomes useless toward it's end. All on Adept 1...</DIV>

[Korelen]

I agree. I had to use Burgle to get around places before I got Craven's Walk, and it was always a pain to keep recasting Burgle every few minutes.

[Jacobi]

<DIV>The other class' threads like this are getting attention. Wonder how long before ours does =p</DIV>

[ibeo]

<DIV>only point is clobber should stay on group members only...but a short timer would be nice.....i'm sure some know why it should be to group as spells like this can and have been used by some to pk......imagine running for your life...just about to hit zone with a sliver of life left...just as you reach for door some guy you don't know drops you to the ground with clobber and aggro kills you</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>happened with another class which can no longer use spell on non groupies......lets keep it that way</DIV>

[GrimStone]

<DIV>Another note about Clobber...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why is it every time I clobber someone, Me, and everyone around me gets the message that I am singing a song????</DIV>

[Damari]

<DIV>I'd like to add that I believe theres a problem with strangling shot.  I have been using a shortbow with carbonite arrows since level 20.  I target a mob and use the CA, arrow fires, draws mobs attention and it attacks.  the error is that the shot does no damage and an error comes up saying the mob is out of range.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>thxs</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Damari</DIV>

[Gn]

<DIV>Another issue to add to the list, but possibly more for skills in general.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just upgraded Evade from App something to Adept III.  The only change was a drop in the power requirement from 74 to 70.  OOOH!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I imagine Evade is just one skill on a long list that isn't effected by upgrades.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is anyone compiling a list comparing App I, App IV, Adept I, and Adept III skills ?  It would be very beneficial as useless upgrades can get a bit expensive.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EDIT:  Oops, actually, it costs 83 instead of 74 power.  Same description otherwise.  It's also white to me.  Not sure what my app version was.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Gnef on <span class=date_text>02-26-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:09 PM</span>

[Damari]

<DIV>Gnef,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was about to make my own adept3 evade, you didn't notice an increase in the hate reduction?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Damari</DIV>

[Gn]

<DIV>Assuming the examine of each spell is correct, there is no additional hate reduction.  It's still 18-30.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Does it seem any better forgetting the details provided in-game... I do remember being surprised a few times when evade worked after upgrading, but that may just have been someone hitting taunt as I hit evade.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If the descriptions are generally wrong, it would be good to know.</DIV>

[ag]

Yeah... this isn't so good..<img src="http://www.agrajag.cx/eq2/combat-art-compare2.jpg">You'd think there'd be a much larger improvement considering it's 14 levels later..

[Whiteka]

<DIV>Early on I found a piece a copper and went through the work of having it turned into ink.</DIV> <DIV>A short time later, a shiny new Pathfinding Adept III spell was produced and soon scribed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The effect: Zero change. </DIV> <DIV>My brigand runs no faster then any other scout class with pathfinding. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If certain spells are not meant to be upgraded, could it please be stated somewhere? and or the spells taken out of the recipe books?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There are so many other things I could have used that copper for. And now it seems wasted and I've lost on the benefits it could have produced elsewhere.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Whitekami on <span class=date_text>03-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:12 AM</span>

[Korelen]

<blockquote><hr>agra wrote:You'd think there'd be a much larger improvement considering it's 14 levels later..<hr></blockquote>I would say that is a bug, and you should /bug, /feedback it in game

[Sierrus]

<DIV>well Daring Advance Adept 1 gives 32 attack was it ? i got Master 1 copy of Daring Advance for an additional 2 attack over adept 1....  awesome! ;p </DIV>

[Gn]

<DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>Chock up another useless upgrade - Snag (it was a mostly useless spell to begin with)</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>App 1 and Master I have the same effect with Master 1's HUGE advantage being that it requires more power</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[ag]

Updated as per 20050308 patch. Please reply with corrections, if any.

[Kende]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> agra wrote:<BR>Yeah... this isn't so good..  [clipped picture - see below]<BR><BR>You'd think there'd be a much larger improvement considering it's 14 levels later..<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I'm assuming (:smileytongue: ) you took the screenshot of both at skill 208?<BR>You need to compare the upgrade at the level you first get it to the previous one <EM>when you first got it </EM>(i.e. @ skill 13<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.<BR>Note: I took my screenshot @ skill 150.<BR><IMG src="http://baronken.com/files/BrigandArtspics/Advancecompare1.jpg"></P> <P>Comparing them when they were both relatively new (i.e. orange) nets a better improvement (debatable, heh):</P> <UL> <LI>Decrease Defense worse by 1</LI> <LI>Increase P, C, and S improved by 3</LI></UL> <P>You were 20 points above Mastery for Risky Advance and just at Required for Daring Advance.  Maybe when you are 20 points above Mastery for Daring Adance (i.e. 278, unobtainable), you will see even better improvements over Risky Advance <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Kend<BR>31 Brigand<BR>Black Talons<BR>Najena server<BR><BR><A href="http://baronken.com/files/EQ2BrigandArts.htm" target=_blank>Brigand Combat Arts upgrade paths (shared timers)</A></P>

[Kende]

<DIV>To continue:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Since it seems that our Mastery skill of the previous art scales somewhat smoothly into the Required skill for the upgrade art (or close), why have any upgrade at all?  Why not just have the arts continue to scale throughout the Brigands levels?  I guess because it makes it <STRONG>look</STRONG> like we are getting new arts every so many levels :smileysad:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Either use only 1 art that scales throughout our levels, or give us significant upgrades!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Kend<BR>31 Brigand<BR>Black Talons<BR>Najena server<BR><BR><A href="http://baronken.com/files/EQ2BrigandArts.htm" target=_blank>Brigand Combat Arts upgrade paths (shared timers)</A></DIV><p>Message Edited by Kendera on <span class=date_text>03-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:51 PM</span>

[ag]

Fair enough, but the Skill Mastery for Risky Advance is 188. The Min Skill for Daring Advance is 208. What happened to the four levels in between there?I wholeheartedly agree that at 188, your argument is valid, if the one skill picked up exactly where the other left off, numerically. But in this case, There's a 4 level gap of improvement that is "missing" from my perspective.I suspect (although I don't have a screenshot to prove it) that Daring Advance App3 would be exactly the same or <u>worse</u> than Risky Advance Adept 1.That's a skill 14 levels below me being the same (or better) than the skill I just got. To me, that is just wrong. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Kende]

<P>I'm guessing that the previous art goes White at its' Mastery skill, and that it probably doesn't do any scaling after Mastery. I'm also guessing that it will go Gray not long after you get the upgrade.  That would account for the 20 skill points (i.e 4 levels), since at 208 (20 points above Mastery) it was still green.</P> <P>See my post right above yours (probably as you were writing yours).  I agree that they should be better upgrades.</P> <P>Kend<BR>31 Brigand<BR>Black Talons<BR>Najena server<BR><BR><A href="http://baronken.com/files/EQ2BrigandArts.htm" target=_blank>Brigand Combat Arts upgrade paths (shared timers)</A><BR></P>

[Eris]

<DIV>Rough skin str bonus and knave strenght bonus do not stack. Dunno if its bug or intended but well worth mentioning it here since i havent found anything from dev stating its how it should be</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Damari]

<DIV>I noticed similar threads about this, but thought I'd put my experience in.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Cravens Walk.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Would be sneaking arround like a good brigand should and would see a potential mark.</DIV> <DIV>Would open up with a bow attack, thus bringing me out of stealth mode.</DIV> <DIV>While the furious mob would be charging to me, I can usually finiah a HO on it</DIV> <DIV>If im lucky, maybe even another CA attack.</DIV> <DIV>When the mob finally hits for the first time, bang! I've feigned death, the encounter is broken and the mob is re-healled.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have bugged this ingame several times, but it is broke and needed to be added to the list.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thxs</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Damari</DIV>

[ag]

Damari,I think what you're describing is a successfull feign. That's why the encounter is broken, because effectively, the encounter no longer has a target (you're "gone", from it's perspective).The new Craven Walk / Lurk is causing massive problems, there's no doubt. I'm not sure if there's a solution, to be honest.At this point, I'd rather see the skill broken (like it was for weeks) than the way it is now. Having to right-click-cancel Cower at the start of every fight because i'm taking AoE damage when trying to BushWhack is just a <b>tad</b> annoying.

[Fairlane]

<DIV>One thing I would have liked to seen done differently is our level 50 fluff spell. Most classes at 50 get something that is special to their class. Shadowknights get a glowing red fire aura that cover one of their hands. Wardens get a swirling green aura surronding their avatar. Assassins get an awesome looking pulsating shadow effect. On the other hand Brigands get an effect that any character at level 1 with a few gold can emulate. Illusion: Ogre IMO is a pretty big let down for countless hours of work. It would have been nice to have something on par with the rest of the level 50 fluff spells. Just my opinion.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Cheeb of Neriak</DIV>

[Dimidri]

You people want to make me stay level 30 until everything is fixed =(

[ag]

Updated to reflect changes in the 20050321 patch. If you want something added I've missed from the patch, throw it here in the thread, and I'll put it in ASAP.

[Gyilok]

<P>all combat arts have a decreased damage in description, my waylay has lost about 70 dmg from max, this was the most obvious, but also Subdue has lots about 50, going from 371 to 321 for example, maybe to get them nearer to the amounts you are actually hitting for, maybe not, only ruse has the same dmg indicated but that aint worth shet as we all know </P> <P>to sum it all up there have been a lot of changes to our skills without any notice AGAIN</P><p>Message Edited by Gyilok on <span class=date_text>03-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:50 PM</span>

[Andai]

Sap, the upgrade skill to Black Jack, seem to not be HO-active as Black Jack is. Just noticed it last night so i'm not sure if this was the case pre-patch also. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Andai on <SPAN class=date_text>03-22-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:06 PM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Andai on <SPAN class=date_text>03-22-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:06 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Andai on <span class=date_text>03-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:07 PM</span>

[Taraxus]

<P>Poison: There need to be fixed much. It cant be that brigands as dps class have to pay for poison which is fading 20 minutes after activation (possibly about ~100 procs).</P> <P>As already mentioned on top of this thread most 40+ skills arent balanced in any case. The de-aggro plead for mercy works exaclty as pray for mercy (it deaggros the same value and i got both on adp 1, so this upgrade is completely useless).</P> <P>If SOE implements Stealth Attacks for Brigands then we need Stealhs without FD-component to use them without problems. If you give use ruse then keep it work. Unlike to the Assassins who can easyly use their corresponding skill simply without going in FD.</P> <P>I wrote a bunch of bug-repots since november last year but most of them are still not changed. </P> <P>If SOE doesnt balance and fix this bad things in near future we see us in ANOTHER WORLD.</P> <P>*bow and bye*</P> <P> </P> <p>Message Edited by Taraxus on <span class=date_text>04-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:12 AM</span>

[ag]

updated the list, added a few new items. Brigands, please review and add any items you think require attention to this thread.

[Fairlane]

<P>As of today (3/28/05) the Brigand combat art Forceful Negotiation is not working as intended or implied. It does do the stated damage to the target encounter but it does not increase the Agility of the caster for the duration of the effect. Would be nice to see this implemeted. Thanks and keep up the good work.</P> <P>-Cheeb of Neriak</P>

[Gyilok]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Fairlane wrote:<BR> <P>As of today (3/28/05) the Brigand combat art Forceful Negotiation is not working as intended or implied. It does do the stated damage to the target encounter but it does not increase the Agility of the caster for the duration of the effect. Would be nice to see this implemeted. Thanks and keep up the good work.</P> <P>-Cheeb of Neriak</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>it does, it just does not stack with aegis, or whatever selfbuff you have on

[Dimidri]

<DIV>Hopefully, the change on test will make it live for Knave and Rough skin, apparently the strength buffs will now stack.</DIV>

[ag]

Added three new issues.. if anyone has found any more HO completions that don't "fire" from non-damaging arts, please post them.

[Dtrick]

<P>HOs that don't activate:</P> <P>Any of our AoE skills (30 training one, forceful negotiation, etc.) will not complete ringing blow, but they will complete swindlers luck.  I have never had a chance to test it on Bravo's Dance.</P> <P>Ruse will not complete either HOs (haven't tried Bravo's Dance).  It acts as it completes both swindlers luck and ringing blow, but it does not do any damage.</P> <P>Scout/Fighter - Luck's Bite will not do any damage to the mob if you use a buff with the hood icon (i.e. knave).  If you use an attack with the hood icon (sap) it will do the damage to the mob.</P> <P>Also, Blackjack had the sword icon and its upgrade Sap has a hood icon.</P>

[Andai]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dtrick wrote:<BR> <P>Also, Blackjack had the sword icon and its upgrade Sap has a hood icon.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Thank you so much Dtrick, that would explain the problem i posted about a few posts up.<BR></DIV>

[Andai]

The level 39 rare poison <SPAN>Wave of Decomposition</SPAN> results in a poison vial that's grey at lvl 38 and has one proc per charge (!!). I /bugged it in-game about a week ago. Hopefully there'll be a fix for it before i've outleveled it.  <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit: well... Live update #6 fixed it so the poison mentioned above is yellow to me at lvl 39, but it still has only one proc per charge so it's still broken. I guess this bug isn't really Brigand-specific but since i'm a Brigand i'll let this one stay in here.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Andai on <span class=date_text>04-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:04 PM</span>

[ag]

Updates as per live update #6. Post new issues here and I'll add them on the front page of the thread.

[Gyilok]

as it looks now, we can keep blackguard and daring advance constantly up, if we care to recast them every 30 secs (i assume the lower lvl ones too), deceit is still missing a reasonable timer

[batter_then]

this thread has acomplished so much.... thankyou to the origanal poster

[Play-D]

Blackguard is only giving 22 added to your base strength, so if you have any buffs that add more then 22 strength it provides no benefit. Beg for Mercy/ Plead for mercy; Same spell last I checked with to large a cast time for both. Ruse Adept3/Master1; Doesn't scale properly, master gives roughly 80 percent more damage then adept3. Mug Adept1/Master1; Only debuffs one more point of agility. Will post more as they come to mind. <div></div>

[Gyilok]

blackguard gives additional str over buffs too, will check ingame once more tho, but as i remember it only doesnt stack with aegis properly so aegis (which is always on)giving 10 str+ blackguard 22 will come out at +22

[TricksyRaton]

<div></div>Snarl/Tangle Apprentice 1 is just as good as Master 1. In fact, the only result of upgrading is that you use more power. Unless there are unseen benefits, but the description doesn't change.  35% slow.<span></span> <div></div><p>Message Edited by TricksyRatonga on <span class=date_text>04-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:36 AM</span>

[Taraxus]

<P>Player Made Poisons have now 200 charges instead of 100. </P> <P>Plead for Mercy and Pray for Mercy still on the same timer and still lowering hate (comparing adept 1 versions) by the same value. Please upgrade the higher version or remove the same timer. Nevertheless the decrease of the hate has to be upgrade cause with the current values they are completely useless.</P> <P>Run Through doesnt fit the line of brigand spells because we havent any previous attack putting us into stealth like assassins. </P> <P>Statistics: If we make high hits with Ruse (melee ability) we arent listed in the eq2players statistics.</P> <P> </P> <P>Kind Regards</P>

[Rykilth]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Taraxus wrote:<BR> <P>Player Made Poisons have now 200 charges instead of 100. </P> <P>Plead for Mercy and Pray for Mercy still on the same timer and still lowering hate (comparing adept 1 versions) by the same value. Please upgrade the higher version or remove the same timer. Nevertheless the decrease of the hate has to be upgrade cause with the current values they are completely useless.</P> <P>Run Through doesnt fit the line of brigand spells because we havent any previous attack putting us into stealth like assassins. </P> <P>Statistics: If we make high hits with Ruse (melee ability) we arent listed in the eq2players statistics.</P> <P> </P> <P>Kind Regards</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Ruse is considered Magical damage, and will show up there.  It's not a melee hit.</P> <P> </P> <P>Also, the Brigand Skill "Stealthy Burglary" lasts 10 minutes, while the Swashbuckler skill "Bootleg" lasts 15minutes.  Both of these skills are the Rogue group invis ability.  Not sure why there would be a difference in time between the two skills.</P>

[Dtrick]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Taraxus wrote:<BR> <P>Run Through doesnt fit the line of brigand spells because we havent any previous attack putting us into stealth like assassins.</P> <P><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Run Through fits perfect.  We have a full line of in stealth moves:  Ambush (scout line), Tangling Strike (21.6), Bushwhack (35) and finally Run Through (49)</DIV>

[Goldenblade]

<P>Not sure if this is 'working as intended', but here it goes</P> <P>Rough Skin- Adept 1 - +6 Str, +17 Agi, +260 mitigation to piercing</P> <P>Street Smarts - Adept 1 - +6 Str, +14 Agi</P> <P>The strength affects from these two buffs stack, giving me the additional +12 str.  However, the agility affects from these two buffs are not stacking.  When both are cast, I am only receiving the +17 from Rough Skin.</P> <P>Message Edited by Goldenblade on <SPAN class=date_text>04-13-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:57 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Goldenblade on <span class=date_text>04-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:58 PM</span>

[Taraxus]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rykilth wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Taraxus wrote:<BR> <P>Player Made Poisons have now 200 charges instead of 100. </P> <P>Plead for Mercy and Pray for Mercy still on the same timer and still lowering hate (comparing adept 1 versions) by the same value. Please upgrade the higher version or remove the same timer. Nevertheless the decrease of the hate has to be upgrade cause with the current values they are completely useless.</P> <P>Run Through doesnt fit the line of brigand spells because we havent any previous attack putting us into stealth like assassins. </P> <P>Statistics: If we make high hits with Ruse (melee ability) we arent listed in the eq2players statistics.</P> <P> </P> <P>Kind Regards</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Ruse is considered Magical damage, and will show up there.  It's not a melee hit.</P> <P> </P> <P>Also, the Brigand Skill "Stealthy Burglary" lasts 10 minutes, while the Swashbuckler skill "Bootleg" lasts 15minutes.  Both of these skills are the Rogue group invis ability.  Not sure why there would be a difference in time between the two skills.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>If Ruse is considered Magical then we will never be listed <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. When you finish HOs with Ruse the damageoutput is zero.

[Taraxus]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dtrick wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Taraxus wrote:<BR> <P>Run Through doesnt fit the line of brigand spells because we havent any previous attack putting us into stealth like assassins.</P> <P><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Run Through fits perfect.  We have a full line of in stealth moves:  Ambush (scout line), Tangling Strike (21.6), Bushwhack (35) and finally Run Through (49)</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Ii know that we hat previous skills like Run Through but we havent (as mentioned above) no ATTACK putting us into stealth like assassins (Exposed Attack) and as far as i know our stealth abilities are on the same timer having a larger recast time then the re-use-timer of Run Through so this cant be used frequently. I not tried the whole line of self-only-stealth abilities yet, but those i currently use are definitly on the same timer. </P><p>Message Edited by Taraxus on <span class=date_text>04-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:51 AM</span>

[Dtrick]

To put myself into stealth to use these abilities I use Lie Low (when it works correctly) and the level 10 Training ability.  The recast on the level 10 ability is about the same as the recast on our stealth attack so you can use it constantly.

[Taraxus]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dtrick wrote:<BR>To put myself into stealth to use these abilities I use Lie Low (when it works correctly) and the level 10 Training ability.  The recast on the level 10 ability is about the same as the recast on our stealth attack so you can use it constantly. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>No. The Level 10 ability has a longer re-use timer than Run Through.

[Dtrick]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Taraxus wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dtrick wrote:<BR>To put myself into stealth to use these abilities I use Lie Low (when it works correctly) and the level 10 Training ability.  The recast on the level 10 ability is about the same as the recast on our stealth attack so you can use it constantly. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>No. The Level 10 ability has a longer re-use timer than Run Through. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Run Through - 10 second recast.  Elisi's Swift Sneak - 15 second recast.  Like I said, it is about the same recast time.  I am sure you can find another ability to use in the 5 second difference.

[ag]

Updates for LU7.good things:-cast pathfinding on the run-clobber once per minute-deceit now 72 seconds.not so good things:-see the list. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[BrizaOr]

<DIV>Is it just me or has almost all of our attacks been either stealth nerfed or they have become bugged in LU#7. I first noticed this by looking at blunted arrows, then proceeded to examine attacks like aggravated assault, concealed blade and pretty much every of our attacks. I do believe this has to be a mistake though, as some of our attacks such as concealed blade almost do less damage than auto-attack. I am not sure however if this is just a problem when you examine the spells due to not having parser available - could be just my imagination but i do seem to do a lot less damage. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Any others noticing such problems when you examine the spells?</DIV><p>Message Edited by BrizaOrin on <span class=date_text>04-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:54 PM</span>

[Gyilok]

looks like only the descriptions are bs, the arts seem to be hitting as before, will have to do more testing tomorrow

[Fig]

<P>The FD portion of Lurk (and I assume Craven Walk) have become nearly useless to me.  Regardless of how far the mobs wander back to "go home" whenever I stand up I'm immediately aggro again.</P> <P>Also, on normally non-aggro mobs (ex: the "good" dryads in RVale) even when the FD seems to work and they stop attacking, I am again immediately aggro when I stand back up.</P> <P>This was quite clearly an attempt to fix the exploit of FDing to get insta-pops on mobs and to reset the encounters, which is fine with me, I just want some actually functionality back for my FD please <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Anybody else wanna test/confirm this?</P> <P>Figgs</P> <P>PS: The FD portion of these skills is wonderful, especially on large raids.  I'd really be sad if they changed to  a different skill, so let's figure out how they're broken and what can be done to restore them to their proper working order.</P>

[ag]

Updates for LU#8, not much for fixes, here, unfortunately. If anyone can confirm ANY mask icon (including non-damaging arts) completes HO's with full damage effect, please let me know.Also, if anyone can confirm Aegis, Blackguard, and Forceful Negotation are all stacking together, please add that too. I'll test it this evening, as well.

[Gyilok]

they do not stack

[Dtrick]

I can confirm that aegis and forceful negotiations are not stacking.

[TricksyRaton]

I can confrim that lurk is bugged.  Well, more appropriately, cower is bugged. Two things happen.  If FD works, the minute I get up, no matter how far away the mob is, it has reaggrod and tracks me down again. If FD doesn't work, the mob beats on you, and you can't get up to run, so you die. <div></div>

[Cyco]

<DIV>Sometimes Lurk/FD clears aggro but not always as it did..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Took me 5-6 tries far down in solosek eye while scouting to actually get FD to work..lol</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But still I wouldnt trade away the FD for anything it has saved me so many times its silly.</DIV>

[ag]

Yeah, the FD is acting really odd for me as well. Last night 4/5 times when I FD'd I didn't lose my buffs, then once I did. It's certainly not consistent, regardless of what the developers are trying to accomplish with it. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[fur]

<P>I think i can answer this about fd not working, my bruiser with his yellow fd at 50 could fd which would "memwipe" the mob , ie effectivly make the mob forget you and walk away, what happens now to everyone using fd is that if fd works the mobs move back to their original "pullspot" in invul mode but they dont forget you unless your quite away's off, so you have to flip-flop out of range a few times, oh and as a side note having your buffs vanish when you fd is the sign that fd worked, it works exactly the same for monks/brigands so for instance if im pursued and fding and my maintained buffs dont drop i know ive failed so its /stand and run around for another 5 secs and try again.</P> <P>Chaos 49 Brigand</P> <P>Skull 50 Bruiser (retired)</P>

[ag]

Updates for LU9, nothing notable for Brigands, lots of outstanding issues and bugs.

[Dtrick]

Add one more to the list.  I can not sort in my tracking window by name anymore.  Can anyone else confirm this?

[Ishnar]

<DIV>I can't either.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ishnar</DIV>

[Adelphus]

After this last LU #9, Aegis and Foreceful Negotiation are still not stacking.  I tried even taking Aegis off and getting the FN buff...then putting Aegis back on...it overwrote the FN buff <div></div>

[Gyilok]

<P>another old issue still in game: skill blocking (other classes have it aswell), namely: another brigand in my guild has master 1 waylay, while i only got adept 3, and as we know waylay has a small debuff portion=-4defense at adept 3, but the real joke is that as I came to know, the master version still has crappy 4 defense debuff, it is still blocking me to hit my adept 3 for its entire duration, forcing me to miss out a 500ish hit every 20 seconds, as a dps class...</P> <P>why the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] cant the same amount of debuff be reapplied (and the same goes for DOT hits etc)?</P>

[Gyilok]

<DIV>our highest lvl bow CA, Blunted Arrows is not useful in raids, because the crappy stun in it does not effect epics</DIV> <DIV>either make it effect epics (Subdue, Sap), or make the stun not working on epics, like the stun of gambit, or waylay, which is not blocking the ca-s to be used on epics ASAP</DIV>

[Dtrick]

Another thing I noticed is that Gambit's debuff lasts about .5 milliseconds.

[Gyilok]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dtrick wrote:<BR>Another thing I noticed is that Gambit's debuff lasts about .5 milliseconds. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>well its 1 sec in the description, so you dont lose much...

[Lakedaim]

someone please double check this but im pretty sure ive seen a proc message for Deceit in my chat window...something like <mob> was struck with Deceitful Tactics

[ag]

actually... you're right.Stealth fix!This only appears in my logs since the 19th of April, so it must have been fixed on that date or just prior.removing it from the list. Good catch.<p>Message Edited by agra on <span class=date_text>06-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:40 AM</span>

[Dtrick]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gyilok wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dtrick wrote:<BR>Another thing I noticed is that Gambit's debuff lasts about .5 milliseconds. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>well its 1 sec in the description, so you dont lose much... <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>1 second is a bit short.  They should make it at least 10 seconds.

[Gyilok]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dtrick wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gyilok wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dtrick wrote:<BR>Another thing I noticed is that Gambit's debuff lasts about .5 milliseconds. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>well its 1 sec in the description, so you dont lose much... <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>1 second is a bit short.  They should make it at least 10 seconds.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>since the debuff on bum rush lasts 20 sec, the upgrade should be atleast the same imo...

[Azulog]

<DIV>Great chart listed in this thread earlier.  <A href="http://baronken.com/files/EQ2BrigandArts.htm" target=_blank>http://baronken.com/files/EQ2BrigandArts.htm</A>  One thing I don't understand as a new scout is that the level 10 training choice Hahn's Quickstab is stated to be an upgrade of Quick Strike but in the chart it has Quick Strike off by itself as not upgradable while Hahn's starts off the bludgeon/disarming thrust/concealed blade line...</DIV>

[Kende]

<P>I think they are supposed to share the same timer, but as reported in <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=34&message.id=3384" target=_blank>this thread</A> they do not.  As I do not have Hann's Quick Stab, I cannot verify.</P> <P>Kend<BR>34 Brigand<BR>Black Talons<BR>Najena server<BR><BR><A href="http://baronken.com/files/EQ2BrigandArts.htm" target=_blank>Brigand Combat Arts upgrade paths (shared timers)</A></P>

[ibeo]

it's on quick strike timer with no cost...love that [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] thing when outa mana lol hardly hits...but it's mana free!