Ruse Nerfed in today's Patch

[BYCakes]

<DIV>Logged in to find out at lvl 36 my Ruse adept 3 now only hits for about 500 or so, and to make matters worse it now correctly attributes the damage to me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The one plus side is that I made my own adept 3 so it didn't cost me anything but I feel sorry for anyone who paid out alot of gold for any upgrades</DIV>

[Jacobi]

<DIV>Absolutly rediculous. I just found an adept 1 of this Skill and they nerf it. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit: After more testing, its not that it doesn't go off as much. Its that it has a resist or a level limit or something now. Was going off easy on single up level 38's but completely resisted or missed on double up level 38's.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Way to take away our only skill that helped us keep up with DPS of fighters of all people. That right, a fuggin guardian was outdamaging me today. Thanks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ruse, 37 Brigand</DIV><p>Message Edited by Jacobine on <span class=date_text>02-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:47 AM</span>

[Zerim]

<DIV>I believe you guys, but can other brigands confirm this? Preferably those with Adept 3 and Master 1 Ruse?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks</DIV>

[MaestroX]

Would like to hear more on this also.The attributing damage part is bad, but reducing the damage by such a drastic amount is the worst part. I am gussing that a lvl36 adep3 ruse hits for over 2k, so this is a 75% reduction? And then the damage is attributed to you so it can cause additional aggro?

[BYCakes]

<DIV>It also no longer always hits. Only tried it on some solo mobs but its real fun lying in front of a mob getting a slapping and then jumping up to see no damage done. Nothing in the combat spam either, its as if you didn't do the move at all except for the fact that its greyed out untill refresh.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Highest hit so far has been 675 on a white con fright feeder but half the time it just does no damage to them at all :*(</DIV>

[Jacobi]

<DIV>Upon even furthur investigation (read: talking to higher level brigands) findings are :</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ruse:</DIV> <DIV>-Lowered on average damage</DIV> <DIV>-Damage correctly assigned , so it draws aggro</DIV> <DIV>-It can be <STRONG>blocked</STRONG>. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Last one is what hurts the most. Lets try to get this changed back guys, our dps suffers enough with this. </DIV>

[BYCakes]

<DIV>One positive though is that Ruse no longer steals bonus xp when you use it to kill group mobs so presumably it wont steal loot either.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So its not all bad...</DIV>

[Dtrick]

<DIV>:smileysad:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I knew the day was coming.  What really pisses me off is that it highly affects our soloing.  A resisted ruse could mean certain death for us on some of the mobs we are able to solo.</DIV>

[Annubi]

Lvl 33 brig, adept 3 ruse.Very short test, only 2 fights, but I can confirm all of the above.Damage is lower (have not gotten 555 in a *long* time)Can be resisted/blocked/parried/miss/whatever... Dunno what happened, because I did not get any message, just no damage.Damage is attributed to the brigand. Presumably this means that aggro is as well.We all knew that this was comming, so it is no surprise, however the fact that there is no mention of this in the patch notes at all is incredibly irritating.Edit: After more testing, I found that you can still stand and use other specials, and the ruse will still go off. Kinda stupid that they nerfed the hell outta Ruse and left this obvious bug in.<p>Message Edited by Annubi on <span class=date_text>02-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:32 AM</span>

[Gy]

<DIV>They thought they were fixing it because of the [FaarNerfed!] noobs that whine on this board. You guys wanted to see it in your chat box which means they had to change it to be OUR damage. I loved it when it was pain and suffering the [FaarNerfed!] thing was un blockable. Now it can be blocked and the reason it does LESS damage is because now it actually counts as the proper damage and the mobs melee resist are taken into effect.  Noobs win again thanks guys!</DIV>

[Annubi]

<blockquote><hr>Gyan wrote:<DIV>They thought they were fixing it because of the [FaarNerfed!] noobs that whine on this board. You guys wanted to see it in your chat box which means they had to change it to be OUR damage. I loved it when it was pain and suffering the [FaarNerfed!] thing was un blockable. Now it can be blocked and the reason it does LESS damage is because now it actually counts as the proper damage and the mobs melee resist are taken into effect. Noobs win again thanks guys!</DIV><hr></blockquote> You, sir, are an idiot.New udate: Does not work in groups.I grouped a bit killin grove badgers today, and Ruse did not go off once. I think the mob actually has to take a swing at you for it to work now. This is by far the worst part about this fix/nerf/butt-[Removed for Content] so far.

[Sinadi]

Running parser while I do writs; level 50 Brigand, adept 3 ruse. Highest hit 2 days ago on the same mobs was just over 1600. That was using the level 50 debuff (which is still only app 1). Debilitate added about 100 points to my max damage.Highest hit today, using debilitate, is 963.

[Redknigh]

<DIV>Thanks for the heads up. I'll keep an eye on it today, as im using an Adept III. </DIV>

[Gy]

<DIV>IT works in groups AND solo so dont call me an idiot just because mobs block you now. This WAS unblockable I know for a fact because it worked on mobs like Solusek Fist who is immune to other piercing attacks when you use a piercing weapon (that is a 4x high lv raid encounter for you noobs that think you know what you are talking about). Also you hear the block sound when you "miss" so they are not real misses you are just being blocked or evaded in some other way.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The fact that it does lower damage can be PROVEN that is it only the resist of the mob since when I had bards and priest debuff I did 1400 today with adept 3. My previous max was 1627 at lv 50. Also someone said debiliate which lowers all of the 3 melee damage type resistances will get you a higher damage on it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>People did not know understand the advantages before, and they whined over some crappy stuff like their name not showing for high damage hits. Boo [Removed for Content] hoo! You noobs got them to change it and now you whine even more with the unforseen side effects.</DIV>

[Monterey Ja]

Bleh. Sony set us up teh nerf.<p>Message Edited by Monterey Jack on <span class=date_text>02-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:49 PM</span>

[Mideo]

<DIV>haha Gayan is obsessed with calling everyone a noob.</DIV>

[DSArmagedd]

Actually I think the situation is pretty simple. If it wasn't in the patch notes, it's a bug.Please /bug and /petition this if you run accros it in your adventures tonight.

[Zerim]

<DIV>Well I kinda like this explanation from my monk friend:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>i dont know if anyone has pointed this out before or yet today, but ...<BR>i can pretty much guarantee you that the problem with ruse was that it<BR>was listed as unspecified damage.<BR>which would mean that it would make no difference in level differences,<BR>no armor mitigation at all, no aggro, no block, parry or miss etc etc<BR>probably all they did was change it from unspecified to specified<BR>damage, so that it is treated the same as all other combat arts now.</EM></DIV>

[Korelen]

I do not mind the reduction is damage. What bothers me is the fact that mobs are blocking Ruse.By definition, found on www.thescoutsanctuary.com, Ruse is:A cunning attempt to trick the target. The brigand gains the creature's attention and launches a surprise attack when the creature strikes.The key here is Surprise Attack. This should never be blocked, dodged or parried.

[BYCakes]

<DIV>Just logged back on since the Ranger/Assassin fix and Ruse once again seems back to normal. I have only tried it on a few solo mobs in Zek but the damage has gone back to no longer being done by me and seems once again to be hitting upwards of 1k.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is this the case for everyone else?</DIV>

[Ratt]

<blockquote><hr>BYCakes wrote:<DIV>Just logged back on since the Ranger/Assassin fix and Ruse once again seems back to normal. I have only tried it on a few solo mobs in Zek but the damage has gone back to no longer being done by me and seems once again to be hitting upwards of 1k.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Is this the case for everyone else?</DIV><hr></blockquote>Haveing recently purchased a rare for the ink for an adept3 I sincerely hope so! I am at work atm but if anyone can confirm this it will put my mind at rest <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I had a rather sick feeling in the old stomach when I started to read this thread.

[Zerim]

<DIV>all seems well here:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>GRP 2444:581:135.8<BR>HH crik 1479:ruse<BR>crik 2444:581:135.8<BR></DIV>

[Ratt]

Guess the next thing to ask then is has anyone knocked the assasin's of that bloody pedestal of theirs yet <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />?

[Sinadi]

Yeah, back to normal. Lvl 40 poison is working, no chance to test on non-greys yet though.

[ckgre]

<DIV>How much should I be hitting for with adept 3 ruse at level 21? On blue double up mobs I was doing like 500-600, on white-orange double up mobs it was around 350-450.. I've got about 100 agility self buffed, and upgraded everything. I just leveled to 21 today to use ruse, so I have no prior experience with it. Is this about normal??</DIV>

[Annubi]

Confirming ruse back to normal. Hopefully whenever they do put in a permanent fix/nerf, it will not be as bad as today's fiasco.Gyan: I was not calling you an idiot because my ruse got blocked. I was calling you an idiot because of the idiotic way in which you turned on all the brigands who play this game over this bug. It did not happen because some brigands want the damage counted, it happened because Ruse *is* probably a bit over-powered and SOE is gonna be nerfing it eventually. Most of us who are *not* idiots have figured this out a month or so ago. I don't want that nerf to happen, but I saw it comming the first time I used Ruse back in November.

[Gy]

<DIV>I thought ruse was a bit overpowered at 1st too until I saw some damage pharses, specially against fighter types who do some of the best overall damage in high lv encounters. If anything brigands and scouts in general need a boost so I am not afraid of the nerf bat anymore.</DIV>

[Gyilok]

<DIV>oh ppl you almost got me a heart attack, was beating some really nasty mobs in CT yesterday (lvl45-50 ^^ while I'm 40) so I didnt expect ruse to do too well, didnt even watch the flowing numbers (which I tend to do in RV) but first thing I get home will be checking what I hit now with adept 3</DIV> <DIV>I wouldnt say Ruse is overpowered since, it is our must have for soloing, and it doesnt even get upgraded, yes its a big hit, but its the only one we got, and in the 40s (or earlier) every dps class get heavy damage dealers they can nuke with, and all of them forget complaining about brigand ruse</DIV>

[Sinadi]

If you think there's nothing at all wrong with a combat art that had no to-hit roll and apparently ignored damage mitigation and avoidance, I feel sorry for you, because you're gonna be very unhappy when sony gets around to nerfing it.

[Kegofbud]

<DIV>I would say that you are hittign average shots for your level. I didn't notice any issues with Ruse last night other than at times it didn't hit for as much damage. It went off every time as far as I could tell.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>* - Edit: I went in and tested it and it indeed is completely botched. It's missing what seems to be ahlf the time, way less damage and doesn't work unless you are hit. UGH. It seems my Adept 3 is a waste now. I'm hitting for less then Adept 1 did damage wise and way less often. </DIV><p>Message Edited by Kegofbud on <span class=date_text>02-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:24 AM</span>

[Annubi]

and it is back to being nerfed.Welcome to the brigand roller-coaster ride <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Zerim]

<DIV>I confirm - it has been RE-nerfed. My Master 1 damage has been reduced 35-40%.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Soloing just got a WHOLE lot harder.</DIV>

[ag]

As I've previously stated...<b>Any nerfs to Ruse will make it impossible for Brigands to solo.</b>Welcome to hell.

[AratornCalahn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> agra wrote:<BR>As I've previously stated...<BR><BR><B>Any nerfs to Ruse will make it impossible for Brigands to solo.</B><BR><BR>Welcome to hell.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Thats just silly! I can EASILY solo green solos without ruse... sometimes even BLUES! :O :O</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>yeah, what he said </DIV>

[XBrrr]

<DIV>Sigh....well if they are going to nerf our main damage spell and have it count twards our over all dmg (hate) then how about giving us some useful skills that reduce hate.  Ya ya beg of mercy yada yada yada.....we need 2 or 3 spells like this.  Tanks have multiple hate spells within their level range right?</DIV>

[Sinadi]

Beg for Mercy, Shadow Slip (or Lie Low), Self Preservation. Only one that doesn't work reliably for me is Beg for Mercy. /shrugNot sure how many more tools you need to reduce your aggro. Just don't Ruse right off the bat and you should be fine.

[Persian7]

<blockquote><hr>Rattus wrote:Guess the next thing to ask then is has anyone knocked the assasin's of that bloody pedestal of theirs yet <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />?<hr></blockquote>Since Ruse is now on regular damage table... #98 Highest Magical Hit (835) on Unrest server. It's a start I suppose.Gherek32 Brigand, UnrestFates Indulgence

[Grunar]

<DIV>You would think that they would have made our Stuns actually STUN at the same time to compensate...</DIV>

[Korelen]

Our "Stuns" are more like Mezzes.

[Ziroc]

<blockquote><hr>DSArmageddon wrote:Actually I think the situation is pretty simple. If it wasn't in the patch notes, it's a bug.Please /bug and /petition this if you run accros it in your adventures tonight.<hr></blockquote>You never played EQ did you? I can't count the number of times they nerfed a major item or class defining spell with zero mention in the patch notes. You just log in to find you item or spell virtually useless and a waste of space.

[Gyilok]

<DIV>its not only a damage nerf, as I have found out it only worked for me after I took damage from the mob I want to ruse on, when I tried to hit a mob that did no dmg on me in the fight, ruse got used up and I got nothing, not even a message that I casted it</DIV> <DIV>I'm not happy with this, our best combat move got degraded heavily, If I want to use it I have to use my lately developed combo: taking agro (it still isnt hard even from tanks a little higher, maybe even cancel self preservation, and the tier 5 poisons seem to tick finally) fire off ruse, lie low and bushwack again <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[ag]

Yep, last night trying to use Ruse in a group netted me maybe a 5% success rate. So, I don't use it anymore. What's the point? It's a broken skill and will remain as such until they 'fix' it at some indeterminate point in the future when they actually take the time to evaluate how well all the sub-class defining skills are working after 10 thousand posts per day of 10 thousand line parses actually makes it to the first page of the whineplay forums, and some dev on a coffee break notices.Not that I'm bitter, but this is business as usual, in my experience.We get no mention in the patch notes that "Ruse was adjusted" nor any mention if it's working as intended now, or will be changed, or anything. Just silence. That's not so good. More communication is better, not less.I wouldn't mind so much if the skill actually went off, or <b>attempted</b> to fire each time you use it. But right now, it's simply bugged, and likely will remain as such for a loooong time. Well, at least groups need my trac.... errr. nm.

[DSArmagedd]

<blockquote><hr>Ziroc wrote:<blockquote><hr>DSArmageddon wrote:Actually I think the situation is pretty simple. If it wasn't in the patch notes, it's a bug.Please /bug and /petition this if you run accros it in your adventures tonight.<hr></blockquote>You never played EQ did you? I can't count the number of times they nerfed a major item or class defining spell with zero mention in the patch notes. You just log in to find you item or spell virtually useless and a waste of space.<hr></blockquote>No, I played EQ for 5 years, on Rallos. Remember the phrase "The patch ain't done till the bards can't run" ?Because of this, I found out that the only way to get SOE to listen is to make noise. I am no longer putting up with 'unintended consequences' in patches. If it isn't announced in the patch notes or addressed by a rep/dev on the boards, it's a BUG, pure and simple. If a supposedly professional development team doesn't know how to document changes, they need to be replaced or retrained.Oh, and as a possible ray of hope for us, it just might be a real bug rather than a 'we didn't list this in the patch' bug. The emergency patch that fixed ruse in the morning was also to fix ranger/assassain skills that do strike'n'invis. Those skills were also re-broken along with ruse when the next morning's patch hit.

[Blackguard]

I just wanted to stop in and let you know that I've passed this along.

[ag]

<blockquote><hr>Blackguard wrote:I just wanted to stop in and let you know that I've passed this along.<hr></blockquote>Woo hoo! go go Blackguard! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[jejord]

<DIV>Lurk / Craven walk line of spells (one of the defining brigand class skills I might add) getting looked at also? </DIV>

[Stabz]

Ruse is now worthless, I'd rather sneak up and do the hidden shiv line on a mob now :

[Moorgard]

<DIV>Ruse should be back to its previous state with tomorrow morning's update. The reduction in damage was not intentional, but rather an unexpected side effect of a different change. Sorry for the confusion that was caused.</DIV>

[Zerim]

<DIV>WOOT!@#!@!@#</DIV>

[Gyilok]

<DIV>can't wait to see</DIV>

[Tatali]

<blockquote><hr>Korelen wrote:I do not mind the reduction is damage. What bothers me is the fact that mobs are blocking Ruse.By definition, found on www.thescoutsanctuary.com, Ruse is:A cunning attempt to trick the target. The brigand gains the creature's attention and launches a surprise attack when the creature strikes.The key here is Surprise Attack. This should never be blocked, dodged or parried.<hr></blockquote>By that definition, no predator steath attack should be able to be defended against. Somehow the "force" spilled over from SWG and creatures just somehow know to block or dodge right before a hidden attack lands.

[Ratt]

It is nice to get this back to working as intended <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> even better as my adpet3 should be ready shortly as I have now converted teh rare to the ink!

[Gag]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gyan wrote:<BR> <DIV>They thought they were fixing it because of the [FaarNerfed!] noobs that whine on this board. You guys wanted to see it in your chat box which means they had to change it to be OUR damage. I loved it when it was pain and suffering the [FaarNerfed!] thing was un blockable. Now it can be blocked and the reason it does LESS damage is because now it actually counts as the proper damage and the mobs melee resist are taken into effect.  Noobs win again thanks guys!</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> look us wining noobs win agian not only does it work they same as before but it also lets us  filter the damge to a new window  , which is all most of us asked for , now  you  Gyan can go  some where else and call peeps names