EOF PVE AA choices

[khurath]

<DIV>Ok, after searching and asking around I have restricted the number of abilities I would like to max out and I'd like to discuss how to complete the selection.</DIV> <DIV>My objective is to have a well balanced Swashy, able to equally solo/duo (tanking when duoing) group and eventually raid I don't usually tank when grouping, but it may well happen.</DIV> <DIV>I have therefore selected the abilities which appear useful isn almost all environments and tried to balance offense and defense (either my own or of the tank).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>After some thought I came up with the following enhancement</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mob offensive debuff</DIV> <DIV>- Dazzling steel</DIV> <DIV>- Lung Puncture</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>dps increase</DIV> <DIV>- Inspiration</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>mob defensive debuff</DIV> <DIV>- Guile</DIV> <DIV>- Fury of blades</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>I left out from the selection Engarde because it appears to have a real use only if you are evading blows or if the enemy is evading, none of which is gonna happen if you stay behind a mob when grouping.</DIV> <DIV>Since I am not actually raiding I have also decided to forego on the style closer cause I am not able to understand when it has to be used and it will be therefore wasted. (plus it would require way too many points). If I will begin raiding I still have the option to respec.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To max Lung Puncture and Dazzling steel I have also to 3 points in Cat's Paw and Double Cross for a total of 16 pts;</DIV></DIV> <DIV>To max Inspiration I have to spend also 3 points in Sneak and Finesse for a total of 11</DIV> <DIV>and to max Guile and Fury I have to spend 3 points in Offensive Poisons and either arctic blast or turgur poisons for a total of 16 points.</DIV> <DIV>This yelds a result of 43 points which leaves 7 points to spend.</DIV> <DIV>The 3 possible selection I thought are as follows:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Option 1</DIV> <DIV>max turgur and offensive poisons and take the potency closer.</DIV> <DIV>You end up with 2 points left which you could allocate wherever you want.</DIV> <DIV>This option seems very effective even if the 5 points spent in turgur will be wasted if you use another utility poison.</DIV> <DIV>Still you get an increase in dps and in mob offensive debuff, which is always good.</DIV> <DIV>You don't have any Hurricane enhance, which would be very good against groups, and due to the increased poison proc frequency the amount you spend for poisons will be sensibly higher which is not good.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Option 2</DIV> <DIV>Take the Debuff closer by spendin 5 more points in the debuff line (4 in Gaudy strike to get to 20 points and 1 for the closer)</DIV> <DIV>You have 2 points left and could limit both Guile and Fury to 4 gaining thus another 2 to get 4 points in Hurricane.</DIV> <DIV>This would increase your effectivity against groups while debuffing also intelligence (good agains casters) and giving all the enemy's spells a 10% resistability.</DIV> <DIV>Against casters and groups probably a little better then option 1.</DIV> <DIV>I am not able though to guess the usefulness of the 10% resistability.</DIV> <DIV>Certainly it will not apply to damage spells, but probably it will apply to debuffs and maybe stuns/mezzes,</DIV> <DIV>Would it be good to have this?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Option 3</DIV> <DIV>Don't take any closer not to waste points to reach the required 20 points and spend 5 of the remaining points in Hurricane and the other 2 wherever you want.</DIV> <DIV>A little better against groups than option 2, but less effective against casters.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For now I am inclined toward Option 2. It seems the best mix to work against solo mobs and groups regardless of who's tanking.</DIV> <DIV>I am seriously dubious on the Debuff closer though. Would it be really useful? or should I spend the points somewhere else?</DIV> <DIV>4 of these go into INT debuff, you think they are wasted? should I instead spend them in other debuffs?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks to everyone.</DIV>

[MrDiz]

If you are thinking of raiding and dont want to respec when you start you might want t think about stlye. The AoE group immunity is a big big thing for us. Also dont discount reach as it increases your ranged CAs which in some encounters will be a big plus as you wont be in melee range the whole time. Thats the thing with the EoF lines, there is no obvious best build even for raiding. Much can depend on your guild and how they raid.Its like the old "all raid rogues must have traumatic strike" ideology. If you roll out with 2 swashys and 3 brigands that might not be true.Sorry if that seemed very unhelpful.... <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> The only things I can say for absolute sure are Wisdom and Aoe immunity.

[Tolil]

<DIV>I'm quite interested in the Reach line but dont want the problem of pulling adds through walls etc.. is this a problem worth worrying about with reach?  (sorry for the slight hyjack) <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[khurath]

<P>The problem is that at the present time I don't raid at all, and I cannot foresee what will happen when I will.<BR>It's not a big problem, if it'll be the case I'll respec.<BR>From what you are saying it's not even so mandatory to have reach or style closer in raids.<BR>Useful, that's for sure, but not absolutely necessary right?<BR>That reinforces my though about going Potency or Debuff, speaking of which what do you think about the options I described?<BR>I'm particularly interested in trying to quantify the effectivity of the Debuff closer.<BR>The Potency closer is absolutely effective, albeit somewhat expensive, and it will yeld results also in raids.<BR>With the dps increased there may be some aggro problems, but that is not a problem since with my build I am able to tank single mobs for some time. Eventually, in raid situations I will search some Master 1 Deaggro and that should do.<BR>Do you think that the Debuff closer will be equally useful? Everything depends on how many spells it will counter, which I don't know, but instinctively I like it.<BR>Partly this is due to my tanking (soloing or duoing) 65% of the time, and everything that increases my survibability is very appealing.<BR>Focusing on survival instead than dps will make the fight last longer, but in my experience the downtime we usually have to let my wife (fury) regain Power easily outweights the time needed to kill the heroic mobs and so I'm inclined toward survivability.<BR>In group situations the debuff will benefit anybody, and the time to kill mobs usually is not a problem.<BR>In raids, who knows? Would it be possible that it works on AoEs?</P> <P>So coming back to my problem, is there anyone which can try to quantify the effectivity of Potency and Debuff?<BR>Just to make you comfortable, I'm not frightened by some maths.</P> <P>Thanks again to everyone.</P>

[LiquidFusion17]

<P>Debuffs:<BR>Dazzling Steel - 3<BR>Plunder - 5<BR>Double-Cross - 3<BR>Lung Puncture - 5<BR>Gaudy Strike - 5<BR>Uncanny Response - 1</P> <P>Style:<BR>Inspiration - 5<BR><BR>Potency:<BR>Guile - 5<BR>Offence Poisons - 5<BR>Whirl of Blades - 5<BR><BR>Reach:<BR>Arctic Blast - 3<BR>Hurricane - 5</P> <P>I'm the only swash in my guild and I raid, This setup seems to be the best for me to maximize my usefulness. Reach is not a big issue for me since I don't really have much issues hitting mobs. Potency seems nice but again I don't want to waste the points when I can maximize my debuffs. I did not take En Garde simply because I don't use it as often as I would the other skills and 40 seconds does not make as big of a difference as it does on Inspiration. Hurricane, Lung Puncture and Inspiration are pretty much a must for any build if you ask me. But again this is subject to your play-style, Everyone is different and that is why Sony has released the AA lines like this, for players to be more unique. I hope this can help <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR></P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by LiquidFusion17 on <span class=date_text>01-11-2007</span> <span class=time_text>07:32 AM</span>

[Lochr]

<P><FONT size=2>Backlash, you might want to consider putting 5 points in Dazzling Steel. I'd suggest taking two points out of either offensive poisons (if you don't always have poison equipped), or gaudy strike. Gaudy strike really only makes a difference on caster mobs, and even then it's pretty slight. Every mob gets hurt by a DPS decrease, and swashies are one of the few classes that can debuff DPS. It's one of our signature spells IMO.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>I went:</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>Dazzling Steel - 5<BR>Plunder - 5<BR>Double-Cross - 4<BR>Lung Puncture - 5</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>Hurricane - 5</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>Still two points left for Uncanny Response. I'm not sure how good it will be, but I will try to do some testing. Even when tanking, mobs just don't cast that many spells, and it's not that useful on a groupped set of mobs as only one will have the debuff. It's only 5 points more then I would have spent in the line anyway (5 for Dazzling Steel, 5 for Lung Puncture) so I'm going to give it a shot.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>I went double-cross instead of poke since I don't see much riposte damage, and I figure the casters might like an extra 10 or 11 points of wisdom debuffed.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>Smesh (Crushbone)</FONT></P>

[khurath]

<DIV>I don't understand why spend 5 points in Plunder, is it so important to debuff the enemy's agility?</DIV> <DIV>Right now Agi contribute very little to avoidance, and with the wis line if the mob evades it proc's the reversal anyway, so what's the point in spending 2 points more than necessary to max oput plunder?</DIV> <DIV>I think my build will be like that:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dazzling blade: 5</DIV> <DIV>Plunder: 3</DIV> <DIV>Double Cross: 3</DIV> <DIV>Gaudy strike: 4</DIV> <DIV>Lung Puncture: 5</DIV> <DIV>Uncanny response: 1</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Inspiration: 5</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guile: 5</DIV> <DIV>Offence poison: 3</DIV> <DIV>Whirl of blades: 5</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Arctic Blast: 3</DIV> <DIV>Hurrricane: 5</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And the remaining 3 points .... any idea?</DIV> <DIV>Well, anyway I still don't have a clue if Uncanny response is worth taking or if it would be better to skipit and gaudy strike and take the potency closer instead.</DIV>

[Neumann]

<P>I know its a pve thread, but I only play pvp...then again...im in #1 raiding guild on the server and the only Q's only guild world wide to take down tarinax consistently.</P> <P>This is also my desired spec as Im a slacker and prefer pvp to pve and dont have 100 aa yet</P> <P> </P> <P>Debuffs - </P> <P>Dazzling - 3</P> <P>Plunder - 3</P> <P>Double Cross - 3</P> <P>Lung Puncture - 5</P> <P>Uncanny Response - 1</P> <P> </P> <P>Style: </P> <P>Inspiration - 5</P> <P>En Garde - 5 ( same time as inspiration...engarde is so useful in pvp because of tanks and stuff)</P> <P> </P> <P>Guile - 4</P> <P> </P> <P>Reach Line:</P> <P>Dashing Swathe - 5</P> <P>Ruse - 5</P> <P>Hurricane - 5</P> <P>Arctic Blast - 5 (just cause i have to to get required amt of points...sucks tho cause i use a bow)</P> <P>End Reach - 1 (GODLY ON PVP!!! 15 METER CA RANGE...45 METER BOW RANGE!!!)</P>

[Cocytus]

<P>Reach is godly no matter what you're doing.</P> <P> </P> <P>If you don't get reach, you deserve to be kicked IN THE NEEEEHHHTZ!</P>

[khurath]

<P>I understand that reach is useful in raids, but what's the utility in normal group/solo PVE?<BR>Please, keep in mind that to take reach, I will have to sacrifice the potency, and that seems a huge loss since in my parses the dps provided by the caustic poison is roughly 25% of the non melee damage.<BR>Basically, in normal PVE this is 60%-70% of the total dps and so an increase of 5% in the proc chance would be considerable.</P> <P>About the Uncanny response, I see that a lot of people are taking it, so it must be good, even if nobody answered to me about the spells it would counter.</P> <P>This is something that seems constant when it comes to speak of the EOF AAs: nobody seems to have a solid reason to choose a line instead of the other.<BR>This probably means that they are well balanced, and therefore one could go whatever he likes.<BR>Still, since I'm an analytical person, I would like to have something more than "instinct" to rely on.<BR>So please, post not only your build, but also the reasons behind them, and the results, if you have.</P> <P>Cocytus, I usually like your posts, because you say interesting things, and therefore I'm inclined to think you have some reason to say that, but I fail to see it.<BR>I excluded reach from the start, but since you say it is so desirable I am seriously trying to see why, and if in not taking it I am gimping myself.<BR>Pls, explain.</P> <P>Thanks to all.</P>

[Cocytus]

<P>As I said..reach is godly no matter what you're doing. Raiding, grouping, soloing, whatever. It's godly. period.</P> <P> </P> <P>Potency isn't that great. It would make a HUGE dps difference for predators, but not rogues. And no, caustic isn't THAT big of a % of your dps unless (sorry) you're slacking.</P> <P> </P> <P>Potency only makes you burn through poison and money faster. There are better things to use AAs on. Reach is one of those better things.</P>

[SadistiKPopsiKle]

Im maxing out both Style and Reach.  AE avoid is becoming a really big thing in raiding it seems and theres a lot of nice places to put your points along the Style line.  After maxing out both lines you are left with 8AA to spend which you can really put anywhere.

[khurath]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cocytus wrote:<BR> <P>As I said..reach is godly no matter what you're doing. Raiding, grouping, soloing, whatever. It's godly. period.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Ok, you already said so, only ... I cannot see how it could make a difference in soloing/duoing and grouping.<BR>After all, it changes only the distance you have to keep from your target, and if you are free to move as you wish there's no problem with that ... unless the time you spend repositioning will count ... is that so? You find it godly because you don't have to move so much, and when you do you still hit your target all the time?<BR>Or there is some other reason?</P> <P>Then about potency, probably I'm slacking, I don't know, but anyway, caustic it's not 25% of my total dps, it's only 25% of my "non melee" dps. Since this latter ir approximately 60% of my dps caustic contribute to total dps for about 16-17%.<BR>Just to understand if I'm slacking, I am 65, and have mostly mastercrafted equipment (only 1 or 2 legendary); it seems that my usual dps is about 500, but I notice a difference form "dps" to "ext dps"; actually "ext dps" is higher.<BR>I try to use Ca's leaving a fraction of time in between to let autoattack go off, and I don't usually spam Ca's, I use them to debuff and damage but let also some autoattack go, especially when I have high haste buff (either from bravado or finesse) or inspiration.<BR>So let me know, if I'm slacking what should I do?</P> <P> </P>

[Neumann]

volatile fluid and chiller bombs imo.

[Cocytus]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> khurath wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cocytus wrote:<BR> <P>As I said..reach is godly no matter what you're doing. Raiding, grouping, soloing, whatever. It's godly. period.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Ok, you already said so, only ... I cannot see how it could make a difference in soloing/duoing and grouping.<BR>After all, it changes only the distance you have to keep from your target, and if you are free to move as you wish there's no problem with that ... unless the time you spend repositioning will count ... is that so? You find it godly because you don't have to move so much, and when you do you still hit your target all the time?<BR>Or there is some other reason?</P> <P>Then about potency, probably I'm slacking, I don't know, but anyway, caustic it's not 25% of my total dps, it's only 25% of my "non melee" dps. Since this latter ir approximately 60% of my dps caustic contribute to total dps for about 16-17%.<BR>Just to understand if I'm slacking, I am 65, and have mostly mastercrafted equipment (only 1 or 2 legendary); it seems that my usual dps is about 500, but I notice a difference form "dps" to "ext dps"; actually "ext dps" is higher.<BR>I try to use Ca's leaving a fraction of time in between to let autoattack go off, and I don't usually spam Ca's, I use them to debuff and damage but let also some autoattack go, especially when I have high haste buff (either from bravado or finesse) or inspiration.<BR>So let me know, if I'm slacking what should I do?</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>It's useful because for one it gives you a wider hurricane radius, primarily. For soloing, you can melee kite with ease. For duoing though, it doesn't have that much use tbh.

[Rokjin]

<DIV>So I respecced yesterday, since we were going to be fighting shredder, and picked up Reach. [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. This ablity is amazing on raids, and will be omgwtf for PvP. I can joust, but still use my CAs while waiting for the aoe to go off, then I Just get back into melee range.. Geezes christ the range on my CAs is amazing now. Auto-attack seems to be about 10 meters.. CAs are 15.</DIV>

[Illyakuran]

<P>My only problem with the Reach line is that I keep pulling mobs through walls and floors.</P> <P> </P>

[Shadowfoot007]

<DIV>So having Reach and being in a zone like Nizra City would not be a good thing :/</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What zones are you having problems in Terriblis?  I am interested in this AA however, I am not interested in wiping raids and grps due to Reach going through walls.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Illyakuran]

<P>PoA, Kaladiam, MMC, Nest, PP.</P> <P>Those 4 zones have mobs that stand along walls and ae's go through the walls and hit them. Sure it's a fantasy game but if you twirl around swinging your sword it still should not go through a wall and hit the mobs on the otherside.</P> <P>In raids the mobs are spread out so it's not a problem there, besides with a raid there are so many people that if mobs are close someone is going to aggro them.</P><p>Message Edited by Illyakuran on <span class=date_text>01-16-2007</span> <span class=time_text>01:18 PM</span>

[LiquidFusion17]

I was considering reach but I do zones like Nizara and stuff quite often and since it can not be turned off I can see it being a nightmare, I think I will respec to get dazzling only reason I didnt before is because of the gained % is like 1-2% there is a bigger gain in the agi but w/e... I will tweak around with it maybe try reach idk...

[Illyakuran]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> LiquidFusion17 wrote:<BR> I was considering reach but I do zones like Nizara and stuff quite often and since it can not be turned off I can see it being a nightmare, I think I will respec to get dazzling only reason I didnt before is because of the gained % is like 1-2% there is a bigger gain in the agi but w/e... I will tweak around with it maybe try reach idk...<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>When in these zones you can just avoid using your ae attacks. It cuts down on your dps but also takes care of inadvertant adds.<p>Message Edited by Illyakuran on <span class=date_text>01-16-2007</span> <span class=time_text>02:10 PM</span>

[Moonlance]

<div></div>"I left out from the selection Engarde because it appears to have a real use only if you are evading blows or if the enemy is evading, none of which is gonna happen if you stay behind a mob when grouping."Actually it is very useful against monk type mobs such as say, Enynti. Monk mobs have 360 deflect and parry.  Admittedly it is not a decisive ability, but against mobs with high avoidance it really shines.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Moonlance on <span class=date_text>01-16-2007</span> <span class=time_text>11:33 PM</span>

[Moonlance]

<div><blockquote><hr>Illyakuran wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <p>PoA, Kaladiam, MMC, Nest, PP.</p> <p>Those 4 zones have mobs that stand along walls and ae's go through the walls and hit them. Sure it's a fantasy game but if you twirl around swinging your sword it still should not go through a wall and hit the mobs on the otherside.</p> <p>In raids the mobs are spread out so it's not a problem there, besides with a raid there are so many people that if mobs are close someone is going to aggro them.</p><p>Message Edited by Illyakuran on <span class="date_text">01-16-2007</span> <span class="time_text">01:18 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I am fully spec'd reach, and have yet to agro any mobs through the walls in Kaladim or MMC.  There were problems with PoA in the past but I think they have been fixed (not a problem in recent memory).</div>

[Illyakuran]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moonlance wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Illyakuran wrote:<BR> <P>PoA, Kaladiam, MMC, Nest, PP.</P> <P>Those 4 zones have mobs that stand along walls and ae's go through the walls and hit them. Sure it's a fantasy game but if you twirl around swinging your sword it still should not go through a wall and hit the mobs on the otherside.</P> <P>In raids the mobs are spread out so it's not a problem there, besides with a raid there are so many people that if mobs are close someone is going to aggro them.</P> <P>Message Edited by Illyakuran on <SPAN class=date_text>01-16-2007</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:18 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I am fully spec'd reach, and have yet to agro any mobs through the walls in Kaladim or MMC.  There were problems with PoA in the past but I think they have been fixed (not a problem in recent memory).<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>In Kaladim I've pulled them through the floor and ceilings of the guard towers, in MMC through the walls in the upper levels, and in PoA I was pulling them through walls this week.</P> <P> </P>

[Moonlance]

I have pulled mobs though walls using my OoEAEs (Out of Encounter Area Effects) such as Lucky Ploy, but I have never pulled mobs through walls using hurricane+reach.  That I think is the difference.  There is nothing wrong with specing reach, just be careful using your OoEAEs.<div></div>

[SmCaudata]

I pull mobs in the guard towers without reach all the time.  They are just poorly laid out.Reach is awesome on grouped mobs, but it has very little additional damage on single targets which most named are.  Granted you can avoid their short range AoEs (only 1 named I know has a short enough one to avoid) or their hurricane like attacks, but no increase in damage otherwise.  Personally I pick my lines to give me better debuffs, more damage, or some other raid utility for as much of the zone as possible.  I still think style + potency is too much to pass up for a raider.  Increased turgor effectiveness, improved mit debuffs, improved poison debuffs, and AoE avoidance are all really usefull on a raid.  Improved proc rate on poisons (I do 12-15% raid wide damage with poisons so it is like getting an extra 3% DPS for 1 point) and all the improved timers on the style line give big bonuses to DPS.  I have always been the primary mob debuffer in both of the raid groups I have been a part of and as such I don't have coule for the increased hit rate or other things that I may like personally when there are better raid choices.  Swashies who are able to go full DPS because there are others in the raid debuffing may find better routes to take.  I nearly went debuff line, but increasing poison effectiveness and proc rate means I can get the mob saving effects through poisons.That said, reach will give you huge AoE numbers on a raid because the mobs are large and typically harder for the tank to group tightly, so while most swashbucklers are hitting one or two mobs, you can hit all 4.  The increase in these situations is very noticable.I like reach very much for LoA because of the groups and Gnilnaw and the Priest.  Other zones I think the other lines offer more.Really, you can't go wrong with our choices.  All are usefull and viable and I give a thumbs up to the devs.  I still don't see why we couldn't have a 75sec inspiration improvement when mages and necros got mana/life burn, but I can live with the 40seconds.  60 would be ideal because I could then use it on every fight instead of missing it on some on the faster pulls.<div></div>

[Tyr]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Neumann wrote:<div></div> <p>I know its a pve thread, but I only play pvp...then again...im in #1 raiding guild on the server and the only Q's only guild world wide to take down tarinax consistently.</p> <p>This is also my desired spec as Im a slacker and prefer pvp to pve and dont have 100 aa yet</p> <p>Debuffs - </p> <p>Dazzling - 3</p> <p>Plunder - 3</p> <p>Double Cross - 3</p> <p>Lung Puncture - 5</p> <p>Uncanny Response - 1</p> <p> *snip*</p><hr></blockquote>Hmm... I see a problem with this plan... Uncanny Response requires 20 points in the line, and with your plan, you only have 14 points allocated... so you won't be able to get Uncanny Response with this plan.   You would need to apply another 6 points somewhere in this line.  With these desired skills, I believe it would have to be: <p>Debuffs - </p> <p>Dazzling - 5</p> <p>Plunder - 5</p> <p>Double Cross - 5</p> <p>Lung Puncture - 5</p> <p>Uncanny Response - 1</p>Or did I overlook something?  Please correct me if I'm wrong.</div><p>Message Edited by Garosantith on <span class=date_text>01-17-2007</span> <span class=time_text>11:48 AM</span>

[LiquidFusion17]

<DIV>So... If i'm looking to increase my DPS in raids and perhaps up my usefulness as being the only swash in our raids what AA should I spec? Does reach increase the DPS output to a noticeable amount? Does maxing out the Debuffs increase your usefulness to a noticeable amount?</DIV>

[Rokjin]

<DIV>I picked up Reach a few days ago and went to Nizara yesterday with it. It increased my DPS output on groups from ~1500-2000 up to 2000-2500.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hail of Steel even with 4 points to improve it is still crap I think, especially with Reach allowing you to use CAs at 15 meter range. Ranged Auto-attack + a few CAs does the same damage as Hail of Steel. Going to take those points out and just go 5 on each of the aoe improvers, the throw CA improvement and of course 5 in Hurricane.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think from a pure DPS perspective, the best path is:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>5 - Lucky Ploy</DIV> <DIV>5 - Dashing Swathe</DIV> <DIV>5 - Arctic Blast</DIV> <DIV>5 - Hurricane</DIV> <DIV>1 - Reach</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3 - Sneak</DIV> <DIV>5 - Perfect Finesse</DIV> <DIV>5 - Inspiration</DIV> <DIV>5 - En Garde</DIV> <DIV>2 - Avoid Censure (to help with hate. Reducing Sneak timer to 1 second to get in more brazenings is not worth it still)</DIV> <DIV>1 - Advance Warning</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Which leaves 8 points I would distribute into:</DIV> <DIV>5 - Whirl of Blades</DIV> <DIV>3 - Guile</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Debuffs will help, but I think Reach is key even with debuffs, since it will allow you to keep your debuffs on more consistently, which will help just as much, if not more as increasing the effectiveness of your debuffs by 5-10%.</DIV>

[Neumann]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Garosantith wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Neumann wrote:<BR> <P>I know its a pve thread, but I only play pvp...then again...im in #1 raiding guild on the server and the only Q's only guild world wide to take down tarinax consistently.</P> <P>This is also my desired spec as Im a slacker and prefer pvp to pve and dont have 100 aa yet</P> <P> </P> <P>Debuffs - </P> <P>Dazzling - 3</P> <P>Plunder - 3</P> <P>Double Cross - 3</P> <P>Lung Puncture - 5</P> <P>Uncanny Response - 1</P> <P> *snip*<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Hmm... I see a problem with this plan... Uncanny Response requires 20 points in the line, and with your plan, you only have 14 points allocated... so you won't be able to get Uncanny Response with this plan.   You would need to apply another 6 points somewhere in this line.  With these desired skills, I believe it would have to be: <BR><BR> <P>Debuffs - </P> <P>Dazzling - 5</P> <P>Plunder - 5</P> <P>Double Cross - 5</P> <P>Lung Puncture - 5</P> <P>Uncanny Response - 1</P>Or did I overlook something?  Please correct me if I'm wrong.<BR><BR></DIV> <P>Message Edited by Garosantith on <SPAN class=date_text>01-17-2007</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:48 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I knew i was overlooking something...prolly spend uncanny somewhere else then

[Moonlance]

<div></div>Position yourself right with reach and you can use Arctic Blast without leaving melee range.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Moonlance on <span class=date_text>01-17-2007</span> <span class=time_text>11:02 PM</span>

[Ookami-san]

<P>Has anyone taken the Potecy line?  How do you like it?</P> <P>Obviously, Advance Warning is a must if you raid, but I hate to be cookie cutter.  Oh well.  I guess I can't get away from this one.</P>

[SmCaudata]

<div><blockquote><hr>Ookami-san wrote:<div></div> <p>Has anyone taken the Potecy line?  How do you like it?</p> <p>Obviously, Advance Warning is a must if you raid, but I hate to be cookie cutter.  Oh well.  I guess I can't get away from this one.</p><hr></blockquote>I like Advanced Warning.  It isn't flashy, but overall the line is good and the last ability is great if you use it well.I am also going potency.  The reason being is that the mit debuff improvements are good for the raid and the improvements to Turgor and debuff poisons are potentially tank saving (at least they make the healers' jobs easier).  To top off the potency line I get a 25% bonus to poison damage.  Not bad for one point.  It also sets me up nicely to grab +hurricane proc chance.  I can put my last 3 points into dazling steel improvement, probably our best mob debuff up there with lung puncture.Overall I think these are the best +DPS and up there with raid utility with the debuff line.  If you have two swashies in the raid one should get the debuff line.  Reach is superior for groups and when the mob has a short range AoE, but that is situational.</div>

[SadistiKPopsiKle]

<DIV>Reach - Max</DIV> <DIV>Style - Max</DIV> <DIV>8 leftovers - wherever</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thats the way to go as a raiding Swash imho</DIV>

[Krontak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SadistiKPopsiKle wrote:<BR> <DIV>Reach - Max</DIV> <DIV>Style - Max</DIV> <DIV>8 leftovers - wherever</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thats the way to go as a raiding Swash imho</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>What ^ said.

[mythic]

<DIV>Ookami-san Wrote</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Has anyone taken the Potecy line?  How do you like it?</P> <P>Obviously, Advance Warning is a must if you raid, but I hate to be cookie cutter.  Oh well.  I guess I can't get away from this one.</P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Potency is good imo!</DIV> <DIV>just have right group setup and blow up teh parse..</DIV> <DIV>and someone was sayin poison is not big part of our total dps?</DIV> <DIV>i've to disagree w that...</DIV> <DIV>*Grin*</DIV>