Non-Falbed Weapon and the WIS line?

[Kram337]

Hey again,So I'm still working up the wis line. I'm 4-4-2 atm and suddenly i have a question:I'm using master crafted weapons because until the 60's thats the best you can even get (resonably). Is the wis lines DPS worth it at lower levels with player made gear or does it really only get decent at the high end with a fabled 1 hander? My debate now is whether or not I should instead do STR/AGI and go dual weild or stick to STR/WIS.Thanks again for the advice,Elucard, 47 Swashbuckler of Blackburrowoh and,<div></div>

[Deaudlus]

There are a couple good reply's that may help you in this thread.http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=33&message.id=17080<div></div>

[Siru]

<DIV>From experience and from doing some (admittedly suspect) math, I am a strong advocate of STR/AGI.  I couldnt stand the slow playing style of WIS lines, I like to see more numbers faster <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  That being said, its jsut as much about play style as specs, gotta go with what compliments what you like to do!</DIV>

[Kram337]

Thanks for pointing me to that. I'd have found it if search was a little easier. =) Though that post had some decent feedback, does anyone care to compare wis to agi assuming mastercrafted weapons?Another thought just popped up; right now I swap between 1hs and a rapier so that I can do Walk the Plank as well as Torporous Strike (from the str line). So doing this mid-battle with my weapons out on the hotbar, I wonder if I can swap between rapier and sword so easily if i'm dual weilding... Guess I can nab a few cheap items and test it out <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Kram337]

Yea, my problem is I like both the 1h look and dual wield. I do like the faster paced look of dual wield but I feel more like a pitate with a 1h. I could go either way.<div></div>

[Siru]

<DIV>I'll give a quick rundown of what i found (yesterday was slow at work so i have a very in depth comparison that i'm too newbie to be able to get from excel format to the forums <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here's what I found.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Stat AAs:</STRONG>  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>AGI gives more max power and avoidance, WIS gives resists (stating the obvious wins.)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Auto attacking:</STRONG>  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>WIS does more dps auto attacking over a set period of time when no CAs are being used.  However, in 30 seconds we have 18 seconds worth of CAs to use, that leaves 12 seconds for auto attack.  Directly compared, 12 secodns of auto attack in the WIS line is better than 12 seconds in the AGI line [WIS auto attacks at 72% chance to double attack do roughly 18% more damage than dual wielding equal level equal quality weapons.]  This is offset, however, by sailwind.  With sailwind, in 30 seconds of combat we will do the same number of CAs but it will take less time (18 * 0.75 = 13.5 seconds) that leaves 16.5 seconds of auto attack.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So here is the math behind this, lets assume damage rating is directly correlated to  auto attack dps and we are using MC level 62 weapons...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>MC 1-hand sword, WIS AAs ::  58.5 * 1.72 = 101 dps |  101 * 12 sec * 1.03 acc = 1248 damage in auto attacks for a 30 second range.</DIV> <DIV>2 MC Rapiers, AGI AAs :: 42.5 * 2 = 85 dps | 85 * 16.5 sec = 1402 damage in auto attacks for a 30 second range.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>CAs:</STRONG>  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wisdom line offers increased accuracy in their final tier, which dictates to roughly 3% more accuracy (we'll assume accuracy = dps.)  AGI offers Sailwind and Walk the Plank.  I'd need to compare 2 evenly geared evenly played swashies to really see how this plays out... and I dont have the patience to, I would assume AGI would do more but I am biased.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Passives:</STRONG>  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If we assume WIS liners will use slower weapons (we'll use MC level 62 weapons for our comparisons [1.3 speed DW, 1.7 1h,]) their poisons and weapon procs will go off at roughly a 1.25:1 ratio <STRONG>per swing </STRONG>meaning they will poison more off of their CAs and have a higher chance to proc on their queued auto attacks between CAs)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for proc percentages -- such as our offensive interrupt, inspired daring, avast ye, etc., the ability to fire off our CAs 25% faster and auto attack significantly faster really shines.  Also, the wisdom line is losing out on a 16% chance to do an extra ~600 (critable with normal crit rate) on every attack from behind.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here are some numbers(I have excluded attacks between CAs, assuming them roughly equivalent)...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>MC 1-hand Sword, WIS AAs ::  22 CA hits + 12 auto attack hits = 34 hits in 30 seconds (68 hits per minute)</DIV> <DIV>2 MC Rapiers, AGI AAs :: 22 CA hits + 25 auto attack hits = 47 hits in 30 seconds (94 hits per minute)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So in 1 minute you're looking at 28% less procs off of our chance to proc abilities.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Did I omit anything?  Also if any of my math looks off... it probably is, but I will try to explain my reasoning!</DIV>

[Deaudlus]

I have done a decent amount of research on this and from what I gathered it bascily goes like this.  Wis line with mastercrafted weapon = almost the same DPS as dual wileding with apporiate line. Wis line with Fabled weapon = better DPS then dual wield.  If this is wrong I appolgize, I'm just going of off what the swashies I've talked to told me and what I have seen myself.  I think the wis line with mastercrafted is just as viable as anything else, it just doesnt shine as much as when you get that really uber 1 hand.<div></div>

[Mortal]

<div></div><div></div><div><blockquote><hr> <div><strong>Auto attacking:</strong>  </div> <div> </div> <div>WIS does more dps auto attacking over a set period of time when no CAs are being used.  However, in 30 seconds we have 18 seconds worth of CAs to use, that leaves 12 seconds for auto attack.  Directly compared, 12 secodns of auto attack in the WIS line is better than 12 seconds in the AGI line [WIS auto attacks at 72% chance to double attack do roughly 18% more damage than dual wielding equal level equal quality weapons.]  This is offset, however, by sailwind.  With sailwind, in 30 seconds of combat we will do the same number of CAs but it will take less time (18 * 0.75 = 13.5 seconds) that leaves 16.5 seconds of auto attack.</div> <div> </div> <div>So here is the math behind this, lets assume damage rating is directly correlated to  auto attack dps and we are using MC level 62 weapons...</div> <div> </div> <div>MC 1-hand sword, WIS AAs ::  58.5 * 1.72 = 101 dps |  101 * 12 sec * 1.03 acc = 1248 damage in auto attacks for a 30 second range.</div> <div>2 MC Rapiers, AGI AAs :: 42.5 * 2 = 85 dps | 85 * 16.5 sec = 1402 damage in auto attacks for a 30 second range.</div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>Um yea, i dunno where your getting your math from, but you are way off.   You are assuming that your two rapiers either have a delay high enough or that you have ZERO haste.  In that situation, then with a delay of 1.6 you'll have no problem using your combat arts and not pushing auto attacks back, secondly, you cannot use DR in a formula like you are using, it doesn't work.  Under your Formula, RHotHP which has a DR over 80 should destroy a Shadow Axe which is 77, which is the complete opposite of the truth. Also, i don't know how you can come up with 18 seconds worth of Combat Arts, maybe your guessing, I am not sure.  But last i checked, not including Brazening, I have 11 CA's(traumatic Swipe included), All of which have a 0.5 second cast time.  Soooo doing the math on that, its 5.5 seconds total if i just completely chain spam them, then 1.5 seconds(when 3 are back up 10 seconds later), then 2.0 seconds(when 4 are up 10 seconds after that)   a total of 9 seconds of CA's. So im not quite sure where you got 18, maybe your using recovery timers in your formula, which you shouldn't, because recovery never delayed auto attack. So even then, regardless of what time you are using for CA's in your formula.  In 30 seconds it is VERY easy to time your CA's to not interupt a single AA and still get the max number of CA's off, therefore you won't lose any time in the formula.  When your using a 1h weapon, it is MUCH easier to do this.  When your in any situation, with haste item and Bravado line, you'll almost lways be at 80+ haste.  At that amount, your DW weapons will have a delay closer to .9-1.0, making it more difficult to time CA's and will end up elaying your AA more because its the delay in hitting the button after your AA triggers, not many people have fast enough reflexes.  Whereas even with 90 Haste, my Shadow Axe, normally 2.5, is still around 1.3-1.4, whish is MUCH easier to not delay AA. So in reality, you need to change your formula based on a few things.   <ol><li>Do NOT even factor CA's into the equation, leave that variable to the individual players.</li><li>Do NOT use DR, they are VERY misleading, use actual damage numbers and actual delays.</li></ol> I'll give you an example of what your chart would look better as(mind you, im not going to go into the most thorough details).  I am going to leave Crits totally out of the equation as thats a whole nother topic. Shadow Axe, w/str 590, 30 DPS and 92 Haste<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />R 77 Actual Damage 219 - 511 (without dps mod: 160-372) Actual Delay 1.3 Now, im going to just use an average of the actual damage, since i really don't want to get into the in depth details atm: 30 seconds of AA(Wis line assumed) = 39.69 Auto Attacks 39 Auto Attacks using average damage(365) = 14235 damage = 474.5 DPS Total Damage without DPS mod(266) = 10374 = 345.8 DPS Now with 123 DPS mod(335-782 = 558.5) = 21781.5 = 726.05 Absolution, w/str 590, 30 DPS and 92 Haste: DR 58.9 Actual Damage 89 - 267 (without dps mod: 65-195) Actual Delay 0.9 For ease, im going to assume you can DW absolution so it easier to generalize instead of trying to find two perfect match weapons lol. 30 seconds of AA = 66.6 Auto Attacks 66 Auto Attacks using average damage(17<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> = 11748 damage = 391.6 DPS Total Damage without DPS mod(130) = 8580 = 286 DPS Now with 123 DPS mod(136-409 = 272.5) = 17985 = 599.5 Now remember this entire formula doesn't include Crit hits which benefit a 1h weapon moreso that DW because of the higher max damage(crits do minimum of max+1 damage).  And so long as the player can go 30 seconds with using every CA equally which shouldn't be an issue, then there is no need to factor CA's since they are equal damage to both sides.  Also, if you think Mitigation or Str etc will alter the numbers, they will alter both of them equally so its a moot point. <div> Now, I will show you why DR is NOT the correct way to figure this stuff out: Right Hand of the High Priestess, w/str 590, 30 DPS and 92 Haste: DR 80.7 Actual Damage 137 - 168 (without dps mod: 100-122) Actual Delay 0.5(NOTE: this is the lowest possible delay any weapon can have) 30 seconds of AA(Wis line assumed) = 103.2 Auto Attacks 103 Auto Attacks using average damage(152.5) = 15707.5 damage = 523.5 DPS Total Damage without DPS mod(111) = 11433 = 381.1 DPS Now with 123 DPS mod(210-257 = 233.5) = 24050.5 = 801.33Now i know what your thinking, that blows away Shadow Axe.. well um, no it doesnt, remember how i said i wasnt including crits?  the max damage on this weapon means its crits are going to be barely noticable, whereas Shadow Axe crits will hit like a truck.  Secondly, it is IMPOSSIBLE to use this weapon at even a moderate amount of haste without delaying virtually all of your Auto Attacks with your CA's.  And Lastly, if the RHotHP even remotely came as close to this amount of damage in actual use, i would [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] myself.Now lets assume that you are actually going to use your CA's with this weapon, we'll average that most people have a reaction time of 0.25 seconds, so that every Auto Attack after the first is at a delay of 0.75 instead of 0.5, and only counting the fact that you have 18 possible CA's, more reasonable(86 Auto Attacks).  The Damage/DPS numbers change to(no DPS) 9546 or 318.3, (30 DPS) 13115 or 437.16 DPS and lastly(123 DPS) 20081 or 669.3 DPS.   This weapon doesnt sound as good anymore does it? Dirk of Negativity, w/str 590, 30 DPS and 92 Haste: DR 60.5 Actual Damage 65 - 369 (without dps mod: 47-269) Actual Delay 1.0 30 seconds of AA(Wis line assumed) = 60 Auto Attacks 60 Auto Attacks using average damage(217) = 13020 damage = 434 DPS Total Damage without DPS mod(15<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> = 9480 = 316 DPS Now with 123 DPS mod(79-445 = 262) = 15720 = 524 So as you can see, even with a higher DR that Absolution, Dirk of Negativity is slightly behind after you start getting DPS buffs. </div></div><p>Message Edited by MortalQ2 on <span class="date_text">12-29-2006</span> <span class="time_text">02:31 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by MortalQ2 on <span class=date_text>12-29-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:37 PM</span>

[Siru]

<P>you're right, i had it backwards, its 12 seconds of CAs 18 of AA.... that being said its not safe to assume that if 2 identical characters took off all their armor and removed all of their AAs, so they are JUST getting swing for swing auto attack dps, a weapon with a higher rating would do better?</P> <P>I left out haste and dps buffs, thought that was obvious.</P> <P>And i compared mastercrafted weapons because thats what he asked for, and they are of equal quality.</P> <P>You pointed out alot of bad points of my post and I appreciate it, i'm still relatively new to the game, I'm a little bit confused though, you say that crits are better with a 1.0 second weapon than with a 0.5 second weapon.... with a set chance to crit you'd crit twice as much with the 0.5 second weapon... can we say that the crit will be max damage+1 just to keep it simple?  that means with 0.5 you have (168 + 1)*2 for a total of 338 wheras the other would be 369 + 1 for a total of 370.  A difference, but not a huge one.  And the minimum damage is much much lower (I assume that you dont crit more than 50% of the time) so it would offset this minor drop in crit damage pretty easily.</P> <P>Im not sure how you got 0.25 seconds reaction time? We can queue CAs, and lag is nowhere near that, so I'm not sure what you're referring to... </P> <P>Hopefully you'll come reply to this as I am new and still have alot to learn, not many people go deep into what weapons do what so what i did was obviously guess work for the most part.</P>

[SadistiKPopsiKle]

<DIV>Mmk didn't read all of this but someone said they still like Agi/Str over a Agi/Wis or Str/Wis line.  I'm sorry but you are wrong.  I can see there being an argument of Str/Wis vs. Agi/Wis.  I prefer Agi/Wis myself though many would disagree.  But unless you are a tanking swashy and want to go down Sta line Wis line is far greater than duel wield.  I'm not sure how the math adds up but you can crunch numbers all you want fact is in a practical situation (in my case raids) It is the FAR superior line.  A swashy not speced for 1h would be left far in the dust by me.  And I say this with 100% certainty.</DIV>

[Cocytus]

<P>STR/WIS is top dps with a fabled weapon.</P> <P>AGI/WIS is top DPS with a non-fabled weapon.</P> <P>STR/AGI is slightly less DPS than an AGI/WIS and non-fabled combination, and significantly less than a fabled STR/WIS combination.</P>

[Delow]

<div><blockquote><hr>Cocytus wrote:<div></div> <p>STR/WIS is top dps with a fabled weapon.</p> <p>AGI/WIS is top DPS with a non-fabled weapon.</p> <p>STR/AGI is slightly less DPS than an AGI/WIS and non-fabled combination, and significantly less than a fabled STR/WIS combination.</p><hr></blockquote>This is true but it is also situational. If you solo a lot more than you group/raid you will see better DPS off a STR/AGI combo then you would AGI/WIS as AGI isnt very effective unless you can be flanking/behind the mob. Until you can get <i>at least</i> at Legendary 1h weapon you wont see WIS line at its best and would probably be just as well off dual weilding. </div>

[Foible]

<P>I'm not quite following some of the numbers in MortalQ2's analysis & would like a word of explanation, please.  I've been over Rokjin's "KoS Rogue Achievements Analysis" a few times & thought I understood what he was talking about. </P> <P>Describing a weapon, MortalQ2 wrote:</P> <P></P> <HR> <P>Shadow Axe, w/str 590, 30 DPS and 92 Haste<IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif" width=16 border=0>R 77<BR>Actual Damage 219 - 511 (without dps mod: 160-372)<BR>Actual Delay 1.3</P> <P></P> <HR> <P>He seems thorough, so I assume the Actual Damage numbers come from parses of the Shadow Axe.  The Actual Delay shows the effect of his 92% haste; with no haste the weapon has a 2.5 delay.   I'm confused by the " (without dps mod: 160-372)" number.  I see that the "without dps mod" number x1.37 = Actual Damage number, but I don't know where that came from.  Is it the 30 DPS modifier?</P> <P>Concerning an average engagement, MortalQ2 wrote:</P> <P></P> <HR> <P>Now, im going to just use an average of the actual damage, since i really don't want to get into the in depth details atm:<BR>30 seconds of AA(Wis line assumed) = 39.69 Auto Attacks<BR>39 Auto Attacks using average damage(365) = 14235 damage = 474.5 DPS<BR>Total Damage without DPS mod(266) = 10374 = 345.8 DPS<BR>Now with 123 DPS mod(335-782 = 558.5) = 21781.5 = 726.05</P> <HR> <P>The 30 seconds of AA divided by his 1.3 delay weapon *1.72 double attack rate = 39.69 AA.  The numbers in the two lines are clear.  However, I do not follow where the "123 DPS mod" comes from.  I see that it results in a 1.53 x the average damage (with DPS mod).     </P> <P>Thanks.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Foible on <span class=date_text>01-02-2007</span> <span class=time_text>07:44 AM</span>

[Stormcrest]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Delowen wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Cocytus wrote:<div></div> <p>STR/WIS is top dps with a fabled weapon.</p> <p>AGI/WIS is top DPS with a non-fabled weapon.</p> <p>STR/AGI is slightly less DPS than an AGI/WIS and non-fabled combination, and significantly less than a fabled STR/WIS combination.</p><hr></blockquote>This is true but it is also situational. If you solo a lot more than you group/raid you will see better DPS off a STR/AGI combo then you would AGI/WIS as AGI isnt very effective unless you can be flanking/behind the mob. Until you can get <i>at least</i> at Legendary 1h weapon you wont see WIS line at its best and would probably be just as well off dual weilding. </div><hr></blockquote>Not so sure about that...I spent some time yesterday just parsing auto attack  with a one handed weapon, and dual wield. I am only a 35 Swash at the moment, but have 4-4-4-8 Wisdom and parsed the variations for a while. Wisdom line was a little over double the auto attack dps with a feysteel longsword compared to dual wielding two legendary rapiers that had comperable stats (actually should have been better as the DR on the dual wield rapiers was only 5 less than the one hander). I did this for a couple hours and monitored ACT... was very suprised to say the least as I expected the WIS line to be lacking with only a mastercrafted one hander compared to two loot dropped legendary rapiers with better stats.AGI line solo is still extremely useful. You can ramp up your solo DPS by using Walk the Plank, using a back stab, then cheap shot to keep the mob in position, then another backstab, the use swathe to knockdown the mob with an immediate Lie Low line stealth, then the stealthed backstab... don't need much more than that soloing and then if Pirate Stab procs it is even better. After reading as much about this as I could and experimenting with both, as long as you can get 4-4-4-8 in the WIS line, it will win out if you have a comperable one hander to your dual wields with auto attack. Best thing is, I tried it out later using a feysteel karabela (dual wield rapier) with the WIS line and it was still dominating the auto attack of the dual wield set up auto attacking. Maybe my mind will change after I hit tier 7 with this toon, but after my testing last night, I am an avid proponent of AGI/WIS for top DPS without a fabled weapon and completely agree with Cocytus. </div><p>Message Edited by Knightcrest on <span class=date_text>01-02-2007</span> <span class=time_text>11:47 AM</span>

[Cocytus]

He means in the context of raiding - which is where the Avast Ye skill is indeed situational, but most of the time it is not an issue. Granted, though, it can be at times.

[Luk]

<div><blockquote><hr>Foible wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <p>I'm not quite following some of the numbers in MortalQ2's analysis & would like a word of explanation, please.  I've been over Rokjin's "KoS Rogue Achievements Analysis" a few times & thought I understood what he was talking about. </p> <p>Describing a weapon, MortalQ2 wrote:</p> <p></p> <hr> <p>Shadow Axe, w/str 590, 30 DPS and 92 Haste<img src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif" border="0" height="16" width="16">R 77Actual Damage 219 - 511 (without dps mod: 160-372)Actual Delay 1.3</p> <p></p> <hr> <p>He seems thorough, so I assume the Actual Damage numbers come from parses of the Shadow Axe.  The Actual Delay shows the effect of his 92% haste; with no haste the weapon has a 2.5 delay.   I'm confused by the " (without dps mod: 160-372)" number.  I see that the "without dps mod" number x1.37 = Actual Damage number, but I don't know where that came from.  Is it the 30 DPS modifier?</p> <p>Concerning an average engagement, MortalQ2 wrote:</p> <p></p> <hr> <p>Now, im going to just use an average of the actual damage, since i really don't want to get into the in depth details atm:30 seconds of AA(Wis line assumed) = 39.69 Auto Attacks39 Auto Attacks using average damage(365) = 14235 damage = 474.5 DPSTotal Damage without DPS mod(266) = 10374 = 345.8 DPSNow with 123 DPS mod(335-782 = 558.5) = 21781.5 = 726.05</p> <hr> <p>The 30 seconds of AA divided by his 1.3 delay weapon *1.72 double attack rate = 39.69 AA.  The numbers in the two lines are clear.  However, I do not follow where the "123 DPS mod" comes from.  I see that it results in a 1.53 x the average damage (with DPS mod).     </p> <p>Thanks.</p> <p>Message Edited by Foible on <span class="date_text">01-02-2007</span> <span class="time_text">07:44 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Actual damage can be viewed by typing /we or /weaponstat this will give you the stats on whatever weapons you have equiped</div>

[Mortal]

I have a 30 DPS mod from adornments, and 30 DPS mod give you +37% dps on your autoattack.  I did the number with the dps mod and without so people who can't afford to blow their wad on adorments still have an idea on differences, and it also helps for people who switch gear alot or get bad groups at raids. The reason i didnt want to include crits is it adds a lot of math, cause when you crit, it makes the damage on the swing = to max +1 til max +30%(i believe thats correct) regardless if it was a minimum hit or maximum hit.  So with this in mind, you will get more benefit from a weapon with a higher max hit than say RHotHP, because that has such a small variable for damage.   For Example, and given hit from RHotHP can hit for 137 - 168.  When it crits it can hit for(i believe) 169 - 218.  Now it might have been a 137 hit or a 168 hit, regardless of the hit, the benefit is somewhat small.  Whereas the Shadow Axe which hits for 219 - 511, can crit for 512 - 664.  Now any hit that was going for min that crits, suddenly gained 350 damage.  Now in order for the damage to be equalled from min hits to crits, the RHotHP would have to have at least 4 min hits to crit, or a lot more max hits.  Given the haste that can be gotten, if RHotHP swings at .5 delay and shadow axe at 1.3, its not swinging even 3 times per one of the shadow axe.  This is where crits benefit the slower weapons with the higher damage.<div></div>

[Mortal]

0.25 reaction time i figured based on the fact that most humans aren't instantanious, and there is a delay between when they see something and when they react to it, im being somewhat generous becayuse some people are slower and others are faster.  Head here to test yourself, its simple, even knowing what your looking for, you still have limitations.  <a href="http://getyourwebsitehere.com/jswb/rttest01.html" target=_blank>http://getyourwebsitehere.com/jswb/rttest01.html</a>My reaction times on average were 0.2186 seconds.  Now this number doesnt account for Latency between you and the SoE servers.  So that is where i got that number. =D<div></div>

[Foible]

<P>OK MortalQ2, thank you very much for the explanation.  </P> <P>As you say, for the crits I've been going by " For Spells and auto-attacks, a critical hit multiplies the damage you did with an attack by 1.3. If after the multiplier, [if]  the resulting hit is below the max damage of the attack, it is boosted up to the max damage. So all crits hit for max damage to max damage * 1.3."</P> <P>The information on DPS modifiers is very helpful.  I had no idea that the +30 dps resulted in such a big percentage modifier.</P> <P>Thanks also Licit for the /we information.</P> <P>One other thing I'd like to know about that MortalQ2 mentioned is timing CA's so they do not interfere with or back up AA.   I have a Frostwaith with a 1.6 delay, which seems like an average piece of gear.  Should I pause between CA's, or watch to see AA swings, to get the full effect of autoattack?</P> <P>Regards,</P> <P>Foible</P> <P> </P> <P>  </P> <P> </P> <DIV> </DIV>

[Mortal]

When i was still using DW weapons that had delays of 1.6...   At the start of KoS, i did the same thing i always used to do, just spam CA's and not even pay attention to Auto Attack, it worked well through T5/T6.  But i slowly started to notice that the other Swashbuckler in my guild was starting to pwn me on the parser.  Now granted he is prolly the highest parser game wide, but still i felt i was slacking a bit.  So i started looking for ways to improve my dps, and i noticed that expecially when i used Inspiration that i could get more hits in over the 13 seconds when i paused enough for auto attacks instead of straight spamming.  I just carried it over and it works SOOO much easier to get the max when i do it with a 1h.BUT, it might not work the same for you, I have always had some lag, partly from my computer being the suck heh.  In the end, everyone on the boards can spew everything they want at you, but you need to find what works best for you.  What works best for overall DPS and for the best consistancy.  If spamming works for you, then go for it, if waiting works better than do it, there might even be another technique that works better for you.<div></div>

[Rokjin]

<DIV>Much of what I would say in this has already been covered.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Key things to add are:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Auto-attack can and does go off whenever it can. This is any time you are not casting OR recovering. So if you use a 0.5 second cast and recovery CA, your auto-attack 'waits' 1 second.  Maximizing auto-attack hits when combined with CAs is best done with a 2.0 delay weapon.. since we can easily self haste to 100% or more haste, this matches up pretty much perfectly with our CAs, meaning you get the most out of your auto-attacks. If in the AGI line, Sailwind will make a 1.6 delay weapon ideal.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, crits are quite complicated... I make a quite long post on them here: <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=111347" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=111347</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In short: <FONT color=#66ff66>Most Weapons are 1:3 Ratio, giving a ~0.58% damage increase per point of crit. There are exceptions, and you can look on the above graphs to see the crit damage increase for your particular weapon.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff66></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>It's really the min:max damage ratio of a weapon. RHoTP has a 4:5 ratio, meaning it only gets a straight 30% damage boost from crits. Dirk of Negativity has a nearly 1:6 ratio, giving it a nearly ~80% damage boost from crits. So on average, each % of crit you get while using a Dirk of Negativity increases your auto-attack damage by nearly 3 times as much as with the Right Hand of the Priestess. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The other problem with RHotP is that it's too fast. It's 1.0 delay is already ideal.. when hasted, you will end up with 0.5 delay, meaning any time you use a CA, you also lose a full auto-attack.</DIV>

[Zygwen]

Given equivalent one handed versus dual wield. IE mastercrafted for example, unbuffed one handed weapons should do two thirds the damage of a pair of dual wield. So to break even you need to overcome that dps loss. That can be done with double attack once you reach 50% double attack rate. In other words, there is no point in going wis line till you can have atleast 50% double attack. That means you need atleast 4-4-4-5 in wis line for it to out damage dual wield. <div></div>

[Foible]

<P>Zygwen, are you considering the 20% double attack you get from Freehand Reversal?  Doing so sets the break-even point for Unencumbrence at 3 or 4 points according to your logic. </P> <P><FONT color=#00ffff><STRONG>Wisdom Branch - Level 4 </STRONG><I>Unencumberence</I> Double attack chance buff. Passive Spell. Offhand EMPTY required.<BR>Rank4: 42% of attacks will be double attacks. Rank5: 48%. Rank8: 66%.</FONT></P> <P>Foible</P> <P><BR> </P>

[Zygwen]

I think the data you quoted is out of date as far as Unencumberance. My swashbuckler has Unencumberance 8 and it only gives 52% double attack for a total of 72%. 52% divided by 8 is 6.5% per rank. 6.5% * 5 ranks = 32.5% 32.5% + 20% from Freehand = 52.5% <div></div>

[Rokjin]

The 52% + 20% is correct to give a total 72%.. However it's not exactly 66% damage for 1H compared to DW. In pure auto-attack it is. From my parsing, with CA usage interrupting DW attacks more then 1H, it's close to 70-75%.. so break even point is about 4 points.

[Mortal]

<div><blockquote><hr><p> However, I do not follow where the "123 DPS mod" comes from.  </p><hr></blockquote>Foible sorry i didnt notice you ask this.  30 DPS from my 3 adornments.  42 DPS from Ruthless Cunning.  51 from Percet Finesse.   30 + 42 + 51 = 123, its basically the max dps i could give myself reliably for the testing i wanted to do. =)</div>