Tanking Swashbuckler AA Lines

[Zygorian]

<font color="#ffff00"><font size="1"><font face="Arial"><font color="#ffffcc"><font size="3"><font face="Century">I am currently planning on trying to spec towards tanking on my swashie for something a bit different, most posts suggest Str/Sta as the tanking trees but would Wis/Sta work? I know you lose a lot of stuff from each but the final tree talents on each line give very nice avoidance and can both be used together.</font></font></font></font></font></font><div></div>

[Dakkon_10]

<DIV>It is not worth it to go Wis/Sta since none of the abilities in wisdom accept the final one work with a shield. It's too many wasted points. You'd be better off going Str/Sta. Blackguard's defense, although not as good as Coule, will still give you a large avoidance bonus without wasting any AA's to get it.</DIV>

[Zygorian]

Is the shield vital to tanking? I was think more about tanking with empty offhand and then I get the more stamina from Stamina Line, 4% more health and the final talent line, I could also equip a shield periodically for the group taunt thus I'd only be losing the talents in more dps while using a shield. Lemme know, looks good on paper but I might have things all wrong.<div></div>

[Dakkon_10]

<DIV>You get a significant avoidance boost from using a shield. If you're going to be a tank, dps always comes second.</DIV>

[Zygorian]

Its not about doing more dmg, its about being in character. I don't feel a fencing swashbuckler suits a shield. 1handed rapier looks nice.<div></div>

[Dakkon_10]

<P>Well then, like most things in this game, you must choose between looks and stats.</P> <P>I usually choose looks. :smileywink:</P>

[CB3]

<DIV>Unless your mitigation is just really low and you have serious sustained aggro problems sta isnt worth it for tanking.  I have str/wis with coule.  Have unencumberance and blackguards luck at rank 8 and have blackguards defense at rank 4.  Without any gear bonues I have well over 400 defense in defense stance and with coule you can hit mobs enough to hold aggro in defense.  The single taunt alone isnt near enough and youll find yourself falling back on using all your frontal arts to maintain aggro from good dpsers.  Parry is near 400 as well with coule and defense stance bonuses.  With decent legendary gear and some claymore jewelry your miti absorption can reach 50% self buffed and around 55% with a healer buff.  Its a pretty good overall balance for tanking vs the slightly extra mitigation from sta line but you might lack hp if you dont focus on that too.  If you plan on tanking high yellow and orange named you probly need to go sta/str until you get better gear simply because of the hp and miti boosts.  Its pretty difficult to hold aggro against high yellows though even with the sta line so I doubt youll be tanking those much.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Against tough yellow and orange named I throw on a shield, if I dont have 2 healers with me, just for the extra avoidance.  Against boss mobs you can use engarde or inspiration to snap up aggro since you loose double attack.  Against standard mobs if you cant hold aggro without the sta line then its not worth even taking wis line.  The crits from str line will give you plenty more dps vs taking wis and swapping out alot.</DIV> <DIV>We have 2 aes that hit pretty hard so its easy to snap up aggro with those 2 aes and hold it from there.  You cant get coule and formation without giving up hp and double attack and if you dont max unencumberance theres no point in taking the wis line over str.  If you want to build more of a guardian type tank youll need sta/str, if you want to build a dpsing zerker tank youll need str/wis.  Its easy enough to hold aggro without the ae taunt and reactive taunt, just get your 2 aoes ad3 or better and they will hit consistently enough to grab aggro.  Your real world avoidance is going to be horrible if you dont push your defense over 400.  Parry and block are good too but thats only frontal and youll get [Removed for Content] if a mob gets out of your frontal arc with low defense.  Theres very few instances with mostly single ^^^ mobs so defense is the first thing you want to boost.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And as alistair said when your tanking you have to choose between looks and stats.  We arent fighters, we lack the raw hp and miti/avoidance of an equally geared fighter, so we have to work harder to ensure survivability in bad pulls.  Self preservation > all  :p</DIV>

[Zygorian]

I took riposte, stamina and defence whenever I could in the advancement options so should be nice, I like the wis/str idea, I think that will be the best overall for me. Good dmg for when not tanking too. The final str talent is pants for tanking so will allow me to place points elsewhere. 44581 Wis 4484 Str looks good to me. I'll drop the defence points once I cap defence and change them for crit probably.<div></div>

[Wildfury77]

Tanking swashie?? Has to be <u><b><font color="#ffff00">strength/stamina imho</font></b></u>. combine high HPS, taunts, defense with decent DPS FTW!!I suggest either<b><i>str 4/4/8/8 sta 4/5/8/8 ----> Max criticals, HP bonus, defence, 56% DPS bonus</i></b>(str 4/4/4/8 sta 4/4/5/8/8 -----> Max criticals, 56% DPS and taunt/mitigation buff)Personally i like option 1 which gives defensive and offensive treatment to the issue!!Remember the key to this line also lies in the <u><i><b>SHIELD </b></i></u>- Avoidance/resists/stats.....a good roundshield is nearly as good as a tower shield!!<ul><li><b><font color="#ff0000">Roundshield of the Sky - 863 protection              </font></b><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ffffff">  (& lovely stats + resists +4 defence)</font></font></li><li><b><font color="#ff0000">Shield of the White Dragon - 851 protection       </font></b><font color="#ffffff">   (& lovely stats + resists +6 defence)</font></li><li><b><font color="#ff0000">Archaic Roundshield - 772 protection                 </font></b><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ffffff">   ( Good stats/resists + mitigation)</font></font></li></ul><b><font color="#ffff00">In essence you get the +56% DPS, maxed critcals to offset DPS loss & <u>MASSIVE defensive/HP/avoidance/resists bonuses. Extra taunt and reactive if you pick it!!</u></font></b><ul><li><b>Tanking/"balanced" hybrid swashie  ----    pick strength/stamina</b></li><li><b>DPS Raid swashie                                ----    pick strength/wisdom (or agility)</b></li></ul>I hope i make my case acceptably <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Raidyen]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wildfury77 wrote:<BR>Tanking swashie?? Has to be <U><B><FONT color=#ffff00>strength/stamina imho</FONT></B></U>. combine high HPS, taunts, defense with decent DPS FTW!!<BR>I suggest either<BR><B><I>str 4/4/8/8 sta 4/5/8/8 ----> Max criticals, HP bonus, defence, 56% DPS bonus</I></B><BR>(str 4/4/4/8 sta 4/4/5/8/8 -----> Max criticals, 56% DPS and taunt/mitigation buff)<BR><BR>Personally i like option 1 which gives defensive and offensive treatment to the issue!!<BR><BR>Remember the key to this line also lies in the <U><I><B>SHIELD </B></I></U>- Avoidance/resists/stats.....a good roundshield is nearly as good as a tower shield!!<BR> <UL> <LI><B><FONT color=#ff0000>Roundshield of the Sky - 863 protection              </FONT></B><FONT color=#ff0000><FONT color=#ffffff>  (& lovely stats + resists +4 defence)</FONT></FONT></LI> <LI><B><FONT color=#ff0000>Shield of the White Dragon - 851 protection       </FONT></B><FONT color=#ffffff>   (& lovely stats + resists +6 defence)</FONT></LI> <LI><B><FONT color=#ff0000>Archaic Roundshield - 772 protection                 </FONT></B><FONT color=#ff0000><FONT color=#ffffff>   ( Good stats/resists + mitigation)</FONT></FONT></LI></UL><BR><B><FONT color=#ffff00>In essence you get the +56% DPS, maxed critcals to offset DPS loss & <U>MASSIVE defensive/HP/avoidance/resists bonuses. Extra taunt and reactive if you pick it!!</U></FONT></B><BR><BR> <UL> <LI><B>Tanking/"balanced" hybrid swashie  ----    pick strength/stamina</B></LI> <LI><B>DPS Raid swashie                                ----    pick strength/wisdom (or agility)</B></LI></UL><BR>I hope i make my case acceptably <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>great info, except i have to question one thing, which you may be able to answer.  You said you prefer the first str/sta build you list, however from what i can tell, your giving up the final sta skill, for 4 more ranks in blackguards defense, and 4 more ranks in the increased hitpoints.  The final sta skill gives 5 percent to your max health, and a big increase to your mitigation.  I dont know how that stacks up against raw defense, but i would think it would almost balance out.  Plus your giving up the taunts every time your hit, which so far i have found invaluable for tanking groups, particularly when there is a trigger happy warlock in the group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I also agree a good roundshield is necissary if you plan on tanking.  The difference is noticable.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Raidyen on <span class=date_text>12-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:48 PM</span>

[Wildfury77]

TBH i've never tried the +hate reactive skill. There are a few fabled raid-guild swashies on Befallen that do use it though...presumably without inadvertantly pulling agro on raids/groups where they are not MT (which was WHY i didn't pick it!)I find holding agro fairly easy in a group setting. The reason we have THREE decrease threat skills is because we are GOOD at building agro! Turn off the Elude Buff and don't use the other 2. Next make sure you don't have a decrease hate poison on!. Bodypull - open with direct then AOE taunts, followed by AOE attacksx2 for groups of MOBS. Hurricane and inspiration also help........IF a warlock does get agro - direct taunt + backstabs usually pull back after 1 hit if you have been doing the above.Other thing that i sometimes do is bodypull, mez one MOB then run back to group and  kill the rest. Short mez but useful nevertheless.<div></div>

[Turb]

The reactive hate is only a problem if you're not MT if you're getting hit, and you shouldn't be getting hit apart from whatever AoEs or ripostes strike you. As a STR-STA brigand I don't see a problem from it.That last 8 points in STA is useful though; 5% health adds up as does 400+ mit bonus. With 4 points in conditioning that's 9% health from the line, which along with the mit can help survivability in raids. The reactive hate is 50% chance of around 370 when hit. Boosting agi or avoidance in any way of course reduces the chance of being hit, as does teaming with a shaman (I don't think warded damage counts and thus never procs). Sadly Double Up doesn't work on Swear, else the AoE taunt would be more useful for brigs.My build is currently STR 4-4-4-4-1 and STA 4-4-4-5-1, because I want Traumatic Swipe, and because I pinch tank in small guild groups a fair bit (often mentoring). If you're tanking, reducing the enemy's reuse timer 50% can't hurt. Sure I could go STR 4-4-5-8-0 and STA 4-4-4-8-1 to boost dps, but Traumatic Swipe is also a very handy raiding tool.It's all down to compromise; to be best-specced to tank as a swash/brig you give up other things. It may simply be better to go mainstream and max your dps with a great 1her and STR-WIS, and you can still tank well from raw dps <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Macross_JR]

I know I'm not a Swashy anymore, but this is the route I took with my Betrayed Brigand.Agi: 4/8Sta: 5/8/8/8/1As a Brigand it is essential to be able to get behind mobs to get major debuffs on.  So Walk the Plank was a no brainer.  It offers the easiest way to get back attacks in on the mobs.  As for hate problems, I don't have any, unless I forget to take off my de-agro buff(it sucks sometimes leaving it on). I still am working on getting my Claymore Jewelry out of PoA(yes I'm a SLACKER) but as far as HP's, I can put most tanks to shame on hp's.  Was in a group with a temp/mystic and had over 11k hp's.  I have tanked all KoS instances and have finally started tanking EoF instances(did Valdoons last night)As for the Defense, I don't think it would work out good for me personally.  As a Brigand with Walk the Plank I can pretty much keep mobs turned away and stunned the entire fight(with timing my stuns correctly).I still find the hardest part of being a tanking rogue is getting a group to believe in you if they don't know you.  Hell I've had guildies let a lesser equipped Guardian tank over me because he was a tank.  I had more hp's, mit, and avoidance, but because I was a rogue they would rather have had the guard tank.<div></div>Githil Coldbane-70 GuardGuham The'Grim-70 BrigThe Seekers-Permafrost