Been directed here

[Squigglle]

<DIV>Well as you all have seen probably, i have been looking for a class to become a main class. i got a lvl 42 wiz but dont like him. and a player on other forums directed me to swashy, he said i probably would like becuase he had same problem as me. swashy and brigand alays appeared cool to me but never really got one high lvl becuase didnt feel like regrinding even though they seemed they may be good. i wanted a class that is great for raids. but also is a good soloer. i prefer not to solo but sometimes u just got to. Anyways whats the ups and downs and are they really that good? i see swashys doing decent dps but not alot in groups im in. usally we get a mage in there place. </DIV><p>Message Edited by Squigglle on <span class=date_text>12-17-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:58 PM</span>

[Sabatini]

Sounds to me like you want a Predator.

[tass]

I dont know. Prediters seem to get there [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] kicked by mobs. At least mine did anyway but maby it was because it was a ranger. Anyway if ya want usefullness on raids u want a swash. Considering they dps the hell outa [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] in end game. Or u could go assasin as they have alot of dps that can be unloaded fast.<div></div>

[Cocytus]

Assassins and rangers who know their class out dps swashbucklers.

[Keyh]

<div><blockquote><hr>Cocytus wrote:<div></div>Assassins and rangers who know their class out dps swashbucklers.<hr></blockquote>Yep, that's an accurate statement. You have to watch the <i>who know their class </i>part though. I'm "decked" out in nothing but legendary (xegonite) and Adept Is but I often outdamage Assassins and Rangers in pick-up groups. On the other hand, there's an assassin in my guild that at the very least does 400-500 DPS more than me.</div>

[SageGaspar]

Very, very rarely is anyone in any group able to consistantly outdamage me. Also bear in mind that while the swashbuckler is doing his DPS, he's a) naturally debuffing the mob he's targeting offensively and defensively b) naturally debuffing every mob through the combination of hurricane and poisons c) helping the tank maintain AE cross-encounter aggro with hurricane, PBAEs, and aggro transfer Many times when an add is inc to a group I'll switch off to target it, get it aggroed on me, drag it to the tank, and then use lie low to put the tank at the top of the aggro list. I can make mobs stick to the tank like glue without him even taunting them. Basically you can pick up the slack for a bad tank and step in if no other tank is available. Raids usually want at least one swashy, and they're good enough DPS that many non-ultra-uber guilds won't turn down extras. Soloing is fine. Just bear in mind it's a very active class. If you don't like paying close attention and hopping around during battle, you'll get tired of it pretty quick. However, predators are scarcely better in that regard. Rangers also have the disadvantage of going through vast quantities of an expensive consumable (arrows). I have to admit, that raincaller bow is pretty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] 1337 looking though <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Syrano]

True raiding guilds need ONE swashy.  Perhaps a second to sit the bench in case the first doesn't show.  They won't bother bring more than one on a raid if they can avoid it.  They'd rather bring two assasins, or two brigands or two rangers first.  All three of those are better melee DPS (caveat: in the hands of the right player).  Also, many many many many raiding guilds screw up their group structures and mess with buffs.  If a Swashy gets placed in a group with good buffs, he/she can and often will out parse the best melee dps, especially if those other dps'ers are in non-buffed groups.  I see this ALL THE TIME.  I've been #2 on the zonewide parse in my guild, another swashy h as made #1.. it all had to do with group placement.  More often then not I'm top 5, and the other is top 3.  Right behind the warlock/wiz/assasins.  Gear makes a HUGE difference as well.  If you're behind in gear, you'll be way down the parse, if your'e ahead in gear you'll be way up.  Swashy's are wierd that way.  But I do want to stress, raiding guilds don't need a "lot" of swashies, just one, maybe two.  The debuffs we provide rock, but they'llt ake another class for DPS in a heart beat.  We're talking top end raiding guilds with people who know their class.Swashies, unfortunately, can out parse a lot of people easily when those people aren't playing well.  It's easy to max DPS with a swashy, especially if you're in AE situations with hurricane (no crowd control) on, using AE's and have mastered your Inspiration/Ruthless/Finesse/En Garde usage.Does that mean we're horrible DPS? No.  We're excellent, right where we should be, Tier 2 DPS.  It's just easy for us to get tot he top of our tier comparitively speaking.  A good swash will still kick an average swashes butt, but that has to do with situational awareness and reflexes.   However, really do want to stress that raiding guilds need a swash, they just don't need a lot of swashes.<div></div>

[Orienne]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cocytus wrote:<BR> Assassins and rangers who know their class out dps swashbucklers.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>While this may be a true post, I have yet to see the ranger I am guilded with beat me on a zone wide parse. Granted there are quite a few fights where he parses upwards of 2k, but overall he never beats me. The only classes that I have been unable to beat on the parses no matter how well I play at raids are our Assassin and Warlock. We just recently picked up a Necro and when she is concentrating on dps only versus rezzing, healing, and giving out hearts, she usually can beat me on the zone wide as well. Our wizard also typically beats me on the zone wide, as long as he doesn't die more than 15x on a raid. In regards to the ranger in question, he is very skilled and plays his class well, just is not able to beat me on the zone wides. Typically I fall in the 4-6 range for the zone parses. The ranger is also nearly always grouped with me and receiving the same buffs, so that isn't why he hasn't beaten me. The only untouchable one it seems is our Assassin, nobody can come within 200 of him on their best night and his worst, but that is getting off topic a bit. </P> <P>To answer the OP's question, swashbucklers are a very fun class to play, as we have plenty of group utility, some great dps buffs, and we can solo well. Also if one is specced out correctly, they can tank in nearly every zone in the game for a group. That is what makes the class so fun for me, the diversity. In an AE fight, swashys can put out some amazing DPS, and in single mob fights if your dps/haste buffs + inspiration are up, you also can put out some amazing numbers on the parser. My personal top parse on a raid was upwards of 2.3k on an AE fight. Typically I don't break 2k, but I am around 1200-1500ish on average if grouped with the right classes. Even with all of the great things that I have mentioned, the greatest asset of the swashy in a raid setting to me is the amount of offensive debuffs we have which we can use on named mobs. Throw in the use of poisons and you have yourself a very fun class to play. The debuffs and poisons also affect soloing immensely. </P> <P>I hope I was able to help.</P>

[SageGaspar]

Top-end raiding guilds are always tricky, and I don't think you should really roll a class based on what they do. The uber 1337 go with some classes entirely absent, and then if suddenly they develop some raid utility or your class is picked for the nerf of the week, whoops, time to roll an alt. "Need" changes as mobs get added and patches get implemented, not that a swashbuckler is absolutely needed for success anyway. Such is the balance of this game. Your server might have five raiding guilds whose swashies just quit. It might have a waiting list of swashbucklers out the door. If your number one goal involves joining one of these guilds, find out what they need and roll that.In the more casual raiding environment that you're 100% more likely to join up with, people can and do roll with multiple swashbucklers. It's a class that nearly every raid wants at least one of, which is the most you can hope for. I wouldn't be surprised if their ultimate goal is (was?) to make only one of each class in a raid optimal anyway. Makes sense with the numbers and the way they divvied up debuffs and buffs among everyone.<div></div>

[Squigglle]

i think im going to stay to ranger, yes swashy is good i can even see it at low lvls. but i just cant seem to beable to no use bows. my ranger with his bow and arrows is fun. i love shooting npcs with it haha. i waste arrows on lvl 10s sometimes just to watch them get hit lol. swords ae fun but bows just kick [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]

[Cocytus]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SageGaspar wrote:<BR><BR>Just bear in mind it's a very active class. If you don't like paying close attention and hopping around during battle, you'll get tired of it pretty quick. <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well said. It's not a class you can be lazy with if you want to be good <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />