Comments On This General Forums Post, Please?

[liveja]

<DIV> <DIV>This was posted on the General Forums, by Gutwrench, entitled "Question About Brigand/Swashbucklers". I'm curious what you all think about the claims made.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My own experience causes me to be highly sceptical of these claims, but I freely admit I'm not a very uber Swashie, so maybe if I were, I could do this too. But as it stands right now, there is no way I could do what this poster claims at 64th level, & I'm having a very difficult time believing that one more level would make a significant difference.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'll not comment on gear, because all I "know" of this particular claim is that the Rogue in question had a Fabled 1h weapon of some sort. But anyway, on with the post!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>/begin cite</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I grouped with a level 65 one (forget which) the other day in SoS..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Was me (62 Fury), a 62 Bruiser tanking, a 63 wizard, a 64 enchanter.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In this group we were fighting level 62ish ^^^.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ANY time we got an add, the brigand/swashy would quickly dispatch of it before we finish the other mob.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I never had to heal them... and they were practically soloing along side us in the group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We don't suck, it only took us mabye 15 seconds to kill a mob, and she was following pace with us, killing them just as fast.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR>What the hell did they do to Swashy/Brigands to make them able to do this?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>She was using a 1h weapon and no shield is the only thing I noticed about her.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>/end cite</STRONG></DIV></DIV>

[Snarks]

A  low level heroic mob adds to a group. The swashbuckler, having group buffs and surely group heals, burns thier emergency short term buffs and attacks a lower level heroic "Add" in sanctum. Yeah, this is very possible. I wouldn't think anything special of it though - anybody good at their class can solo anything in sanctum with ease. at 65 with group buffs, it is also vvery possible. Just have to get comfortable with your class.<div></div>

[Debunkt]

<P>/Agree They had group buffs and timing/saving their burst dps skills for adds. Could have been using life siphon poisons too.</P> <P>The problem is...what again?:smileyvery-happy:</P>

[liveja]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> snarkteeth wrote: The swashbuckler, having group buffs and surely group heals<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>The buffs are implied, by the fact that a group existed.</P> <P>The OP, however, was the only healer, & specifically said he/she never HAD to heal the Rogue. This, of course, gives us no indication of whether or not the OP was actually using group heals; he/she only says he/she never HAD to heal the Rogue, which pretty clearly implies that the Rogue wasn't taking damage.</P> <P>I, personally, don't believe that I can solo a ^^^ heroic, 3 levels below me, in 15 seconds, despite the fact that I'm quite comfortable with my class.</P> <P>In answer to Goku's question: the problem is that I think the OP is either exaggerating, or lying.<BR></P>

[Nezumigami]

As I posted in the original post I highly doubt this to be true. First off, the supposed "uber" swashie in the group was killing adds solo in less time than the group was killing them together (even with the swashie/brig's help group kill time without adds was unaffected) yet for some reason this uber power was only acquired when soloing (despite group buffs). Seriously, the OP is BSing here and more swashies and brigs need to post to dispell this myth ASAP.  I have long played a 70 warden and have healed countless Rogue main tanks on occasiona nd have grouped with multiple swashies and brigs and what is described in this post is impossible. No rogue can constantly down triple up adds 2-3 levels below them in less than 15 seconds. Now my swashie has only just turned 70 tonight, however in my mix of legendary/ master gear and ad3 /master skills what is described here is impossible in my opinion. Just a fury (who playing a warden, mind you have the most amazing healer AA's in the new expansion in terms of well roundedness) trying to distract the nerf bat from their own class in my opinion.I've parsed my swashie in groups and raids versus my well competent guildmates and we are no where nearly as uber as this overblown post describes. Now, I wouldn't call us weak but still.;.. the original post here is fiction and non screenshotted , combat logged fiction.<div></div>

[Aboun]

<DIV>I replied to this on the Gameplay forum, but what everyone is overlooking is that the toon in question probably wasn't getting hit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Any scout with hate tranfer, hate reudcing poisons and some good hate reducing CA's can completely solo a mob with a tank using a defensive taunt-proc, like a guardian,  even if the tank is AFK.  The posters' tank was a bruiser, making this more difficult although not impossible.  AEs from the bruiser will catch that mob and if the taunt attack-proc goes off then it's just that much better for the scout.</DIV>

[GoddessKailynn]

would be easy really.  As someone had mentioend all they would have to do is burn their short terms and can burn fast, especially a wis specced swash.  If they were using CC or for soem reason the swash was jsut not using hurricane then burning shrot terms on a mob and not dpsing the main target could easily outdps a decent group for that short period of time especially if they had a fast one hander and caustic poisons up.  And taking dmg would be pretty moot in the same situation if they were using deaggro poisons as well.Overall this isnt anythign new or special.  Without group buffs, poisons, and short term long recast buffs to dps and the right aa spec (Which was already stated as being the spec used) this is entirely possible.<div></div>

[khurath]

<P>I am only 57, so I really don't know about the 70 level CA's and effectiveness, but I will scale it down to my level and compare it to what I did when I was making the CQs.</P> <P>Against green Tarantulas I could solo them but the fight really depended on how the vitality breach poison procced.<BR>if I had a tank with my aggro transfer nearby though, the deaggro CA's (which I have master1) will make the mob go on the tank and make me free to fully debuff it and kill it. </P> <P>Then I had to do the Sentinels of Anuk, and they were blue (52 compared to my 55), and after quite a few deaths I decided to spend my time better and begun to search for a group.<BR>Now, I have "only" mastercrafted Armor and weapons, and my CA's are "only" adept1, and, of course, I didn't have any group buffs.<BR>Would these things make the difference?.</P> <P>Other things to be considered is that if the group used AoE then the add was wounded also, and with group healings the rogue got healed anyway, even if they were used for the tank.</P>

[GoddessKailynn]

Group buffs can and do make a huge difference.<div></div>

[Dakkon_10]

<DIV>We're dps, so of course we will kill mobs fast... It's easy to "solo" mobs that are 3 levels below you, total overcons, and with group buffs....:smileyindifferent:</DIV><p>Message Edited by Dakkon_1007 on <span class=date_text>12-02-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:51 PM</span>

[SmCaudata]

I have been in a number of groups where I am more than half the group DPS. So, if I take on an add, it will go down faster than the other mob.  As another posted our detaunts are great. If this swash was using transfer, IB, avoid censure, and elude+hideaway the tank could have his back to the mob and still hold aggro.  Also when I duo non named blue heroics my healer DPSes more than heals anyway.  That was pre EoF since I haven't tanked at all post EoF.In a typical group add comes I do one of two things.1.  Taunt then mez the mob outside of hurricane range. I do this if I feel the healer cannot keep up with the add on the tank.2.  Taunt, swathe, backstab, stun, then hideaway.  This is a ton of hate transfered to the tank and I no longer have aggro.  After this I can burn temp buffs and destroy the add.IMO, the swash in question was doing the wrong thing.  Add need to be controlled and killed after the original pull and it is always in the best intrrest of the group to concentrate on one mob at a time because having 2 mobs hitting for 30 seconds is worse than 2 for 15 and 1 for the remaining 15.  Before our big mez nerf when grouping I would taunt then mez the toughest in the group so that we could burn down the weaker foes before mez wore off.  DPS is great crowd control.<div></div>

[liveja]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SmCaudata wrote: If this swash was using transfer, IB, avoid censure, and elude+hideaway the tank could have his back to the mob and still hold aggro.  <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I may have mis-interpreted the OP: I read it as saying the Rogue in question was actively "tanking" the add. </P> <P>If the tank in question was tanking ALL the mobs, then I could easily see this situation, as I've done it myself. But if the Rogue was tanking the add, as I initially read this OP, then I don't see it at all, because the Rogue very definitely would have been taking hits, which would have needed to be healed.</P> <P>I note, though, that the OP specifically said he/she did not have to heal the Rogue. If the Rogue was merely DPSing an add, then there's no reason for the OP to have needed to heal, & thus, no reason for the OP to say he/she did not have to heal the Rogue. That is why I think the OP is claiming that the Rogue was actively "tanking" the add.</P> <P>OTOH, if the OP was using group heals, then he/she is kinda foolish for claiming the Rogue didn't need to be healed <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></P>

[CB3]

<DIV>Well I am a swash and I wont hesitate to yank adds off of healers or mages.  Whenever I do though I always hit our dps and skill debuff before I do.  With those 2 debuffs on the mobs accuracy and damage output is severly reduced.  With a few stuns (cheapshot, our ae stun, group members ae stuns) the mobs rarely hit me if I kill it fast enough.  I have seen the heavy dps tanks do the same.  If a zerker pops rampage or a bruiser pops knockout combo on an add he will have aggro and with there stuns they can destroy the add before he really hurts them.  I think what the op was seeing is our skill debuff called lung puncture making the mobs accuracy so low against lower level cons that the mob rarely hit the swashbuckler.  Debuffs mean alot now and so do stuns.  And the guy never said the swash wasnt hitting defense stance before he took aggro.  When im in defensive and lung puncture is on mobs rarely hit me unless they are yellows.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The guy also said brig/swash , which I see as meaning there was a brig and a swash there offtanking the adds.  So the brigand and swash stuns the mobs for 10ish seconds while the swash and brig unload with dispatch debilitate and inspiration.  I dont think theres any non named heroic mob in the game that could survive that kinda brutality for more than 15 seconds.  Any class coupled with a brigand can destroy mobs in seconds.  Take a wizard and have him drop ball of lava and ice comet after the mobs has been raked and dispatched, he would fall over dead pretty much instantly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The guy also said chanter which could mean coercer.  Coercers have a quite a few stuns.  And if they are smart they will stun the mobs that arent hitting the tank as the tank ofcourse is getting the heals and can take hits well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[ArivenGemini]

<div><blockquote><hr>livejazz wrote:<div></div><p>I note, though, that the OP specifically said he/she did not have to heal the Rogue. If the Rogue was merely DPSing an add, then there's no reason for the OP to have needed to heal, & thus, no reason for the OP to say he/she did not have to heal the Rogue. That is why I think the OP is claiming that the Rogue was actively "tanking" the add.</p> <p>OTOH, if the OP was using group heals, then he/she is kinda foolish for claiming the Rogue didn't need to be healed <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><hr></blockquote>Also don't forget that the fury has a group health regen buff.. and depending on where you have that spell at and what AAs you take, you can get that to 85 per tick or higher fairly easy (I think my level 62 fury has it at about 79-80 right now)... combine that with the vitality breach life tap poison and you have a self healing, regenning swashy...</div>