Question about maximising raid DPS - player skill issue!

[Kharadr]

Hi guys <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I am one of 3 swashies and 4 rogues in our casual raiding guild and I am quite disappointed at my DPS. Apart from gear and art levels, I feel I might be making wrong choices in my "combat routine". I usually fight as follows:- start in Sneak mode- open with Sneak attack- with 2+ mobs, use both AE arts- pop Inspiration if up- pop big attacksNow I was getting pointers from our top swashy (thanks Quoris!) who advised the following:- don't use AE arts unless 3+ mobs due to long cast time (I duel wield btw)- start with stealth attack- then pop Inspiration and DO NOTHING (let Inspiration proc off Auto-attack)- after Inspiration do your big attacksSo I tried that and sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. It got me thinking though. On the bosses there is a lot of time to "set up" while on trash if your placement is wrong you've thrown away half your damage. Now, factoring in time, how would you consider the following:- would Inspiration benefit from Ingenious Finesse? Do you use Finesse before Inspiration?- do you use En Garde a lot? I do but I'm wondering if it's as good as I think it is- what damage poison do you use? I usually use the DD poison; I have tried the power leech on last raid. I never went OOP but my DPS went down considerably <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />- I usually end up "setting up" for half of the fight and when fighting trash, that just doesn't seem to be very efficient. How do you best mix your attack buffs?<div></div>

[Eldril]

<DIV>If you have not proc Spurious Bravado first before using your inspiration then pop Perfect finesse before it. It will increase your haste thus your inspiration dmg + it will make you proc Spurious Bravado faster since you will be swinging faster too. In any case....pop your Finesse before Inspiration and you will see difference.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another issue is what weapon you are using. Optimal weapon speed atm with 100% haste is 2.0 speed. That is because you can actually use your CAs without interfering with your autoattack timers. So you can use your CAs even while on Inspiration "mode". If you have way faster than 2.0 speed weapon then it might be better to use only your autoattacks and then use your CAs when you finish with your Inspiration. If your weapon is about 1.6 speed...then use only your heavy dmg CAs like Uncanny Response and Wirl of Blades and wait for the rest of your abilities to hit after Inspiration expires. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Finally, use your 2 AoE moves only when you are dealing with 3+ mobs...cause you are loosing a lot of DPS due to the big casting times. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hope this works for you...I know it works for me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dreadnaught Delolith Bladesinger, Scullywag of Purity</DIV> <DIV>Darathar (PvP)</DIV>

[A 12 Gauge 007]

<P>First I gotta ask if you are trying to get maximum DPS why are you duel weilding?</P> <P>Ok lets move to your combat arts. First off adpIIIs and masters? Secondly I organise my CAs by recast time. You will have about 3 sections of CAs 30sec recasts 20 sec recast and 10sec recasts. Now I personally use relic chest and legs which lowers the timers of our mutli attacks so I fire them first even tho they are close to a 20sec timer. Then I fire my 30 sec attacks, then my 20 sec and my 10 secs. You can change this around to see what works best for you but get them organised.</P> <P>Engarde is best used on 3 or more mobs before you burn AE attacks.</P> <P>Inspiration is best used as soon as the Brigand calls dispatch and cast your CAs while your inspired.</P> <P>YOUR GROUP SETUP is probably the single most important part of the equation. You need procs str and dps mod. With out it you are going to put out average numbers. Dirges and Coercers are your friends. If you have a dirge in your group get with him and have him cast CoB as soon as the brig calls dispatch and you cast ID at the same time... its 2k+ dps almost anytime. You need procs... conj emberseed or wizard phoenix blade, ask for them!</P> <P>Only thing other thing I can thing of is Acrylia rings... one str one agi will at 23%dps mod and 23%haste when proced.</P> <P>I hope this helps.</P>

[Luk]

GuileWhirl of BladesMaster Strike (if applicable mob)I always open with these, mit debuff will up the damage on all your other arts.The rest are pretty much ordered across my hotbar and then reuse when they refresh.Lag central for me tonight, so I capped out my DPS at about 1600<div></div>

[Zygwen]

I do not start in Stealth mode. Takes too long to reach your target. If you want to use your stealth attacks use Hideaway first but only after you have already started spamming combat arts. The first thing to check is whether during the fight your %haste and %dps is maxed. If you are not capping out there is no way you are going to do max damage. If I'm getting no +haste or +dps buffs in raid, especialy +dps, I don't even bother trying to make parse. Second, I only bother maxing dps when we need to burn mobs down or its a named mob encounter. Don't worry about dps on trash mobs. Weapon and style selection are important, due to how Hurricane, Crits and lost auto attacks work. Idealy you want a one hander with delay 2 or higher with a min to max damage ratio above 3. One handers with delay 1.6 and min to max damage ratio equal to 3 are the norm. In general you will want a weapon with a higher damage rating but min to max ratio and delay can override that. For KoS you will want to go wis line if you want to max dps. This is because Hurricane deals damage based on your main hand weapon. Without Hurricane it would not matter whether you go one handed or dual wield, thus brigands are more likely to go dual wield. Lastly, I don't use impair it has the lowest dps of our combat arts and I rather use Constrain to snare because it has a debuff also. <div></div>

[Krontak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zygwen wrote:<BR>...<BR><BR>Second, I only bother maxing dps when we need to burn mobs down or its a named mob encounter. <STRONG>Don't worry about dps on trash mobs</STRONG>.<BR><BR> ...<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>:smileysad:</P> <P>I hope everyone is always trying 100% to burn stuff as fast as they can without pulling aggro, I know I am.  Zonewide parses are what really count along with individual encounter parses as a close second but that's just imho.  I really hate spending over 2 hrs in a zone, especially after doing the zone who knows how many times.</P>

[Sadaen]

Why would you not maximize dps zone wide? Thats like a helaer saying I only use my good heals on named....

[Skua]

Brazening (backstab in steal) 3 blades (reduce mit) , cheap shot , guile , the big atack (green icon), Punctured, and the others go here.

[SmCaudata]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Licit wrote:GuileWhirl of BladesMaster Strike (if applicable mob)I always open with these, mit debuff will up the damage on all your other arts.The rest are pretty much ordered across my hotbar and then reuse when they refresh.Lag central for me tonight, so I capped out my DPS at about 1600<div></div><hr></blockquote>Yep this is what I do except I open with our defense/wisdom debuff then mit debuff abilities. Then I cast finese for the DPS on my auto attacks for a majority of the fight.Then I spam all my damage attacks in order of increasing recast.Then guile again before casting inspiration since I should have procced bravado by now and the mob has been significantly debuffed by the whole raid force.While inspiration is going I only hit my mit debuff abilities and traumatic swipe if they come back up.  If I had a 2.0 delay weapon I would spam CAs for even more damage.For the rest of the fight I spam CAs in order of increasing delay when they come back and throw up our defense debuff when it is about to wear off since recast is shorter than duration.And others have said your group makeup and the buffs they give you will make a big difference.  If you get a couple Int buffs you can do 1k dam average per poison proc or more.  The inquisitor I get grouped with gives me 30% dps and a weapon proc that does more damage for me zonewide than pheonix blade. But you can have both so I get pheonix blade if there is a wizard as well.  If you have a dirge you are going to get even more damage. Follow the same rules you do for inspiration. Use high damage and mit debuff attacks while it is going unless you have a 2.0 delay weapon, in which case you can spam all your CAs.As for AoEs, if it is a group of mobs I will begin to cast swathe as I run up to them timing the DPS call.  Then I hit lucky ploy. In general during a fight I find that AoEs are best used with 3+ mobs.  I would say it is a break even with 2 mobs, in which case it is a waste of power.</div><p>Message Edited by SmCaudata on <span class=date_text>11-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:44 PM</span>

[Iseabeil]

<DIV>If it aint big groups: I usually open up with double-cross, pathetic result from it really but doesnt take much time and cant hurt. Then I normally go dazzling steel (helping keep damage down on tank, wether needed or not feels like professional pride to me), whirl, guile, lung puncture and unload what I got up. If the mob has an AE I get swipe up as early as I can and after first round of CA's so to speak, if there is enough of the mob left to justify it Ill peak on my haste and use finesse if needed and toss up inspiration and let auto attack do its job and only use swipe if needed. </DIV> <DIV>On groups, swathe, ploy and try to stand so I can cover them as good as possible for hurricane whilst pretending Im a vermin incarnation of a lawn mover :o</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Regarding the trash/named thing... I go all out on everything. I dun care what sort it is, its in the way and it has to die asap, end of story. Partly its a pride matter, my name belong in top of the parse and Ill defend its position, partly its time issue, I dun wanna spend 30 mins extra in a zone cause some decide to take it easie, partly its a matter of keeping the tanks on their toes all time. Its human nature to get lazy when it becomes easie and a tank that gets used to keeping agro without work is more likely to not be as alert later when they really have to (philosophical ratongas ftw!). Give all, at all times <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Group make up.. nothin is more important. Take me from a good group to a bad group and I lose an average of up to 500 dps. Gimme a dirge or even better a coercer and Im unstoppable.. as long as Im alive *grins* With caps bein reworked and the new AA's I can imagine an illusionist with illusory arm might be devastating on us too, but that is still hypothetical.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Kharadr]

WOW guys thanks for the huge amount of replies <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />To clarify: I know a 1-hander is best for maximum dps, but I've only been raiding since about mid August, 2-3 raids a week. I've grabbed everything that was an upgrade, including Oblivion's Edge (got outbid on a 1-hander once and our guild is just VERY unlucky with weapon drops). So my question was more aimed at "how do I maximise my current potential". I also always go all-out on everything; let's face it, after only 5 times in any raid instance all you want to do is get to the named ASAP. I'd go as far as saying I'd use pure DPS arts on trash, while starting with debuffs on the named. The trash goes down quickly enough as it is.Anyhow, lots to think about, lots of changes I can make. Thanks again <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Snarks]

use right hand of the high priestess when you use inspiration, and switch out when inspiration wears off<div></div>

[Foolsfolly]

Engarde and Inspiration are on the same recast timer, so always use them together, in that order. Engarde will ensure that if you miss an attack you will still do damage, and still get inspiration to proc for that swing. I've found several enemies who have very high evasion and using engarde on them provides awesome damage. But even on common enemies it helps.Before you cast those 2 buffs though, first use Ruthless cunning and Finesse to max out your speed and dps modifiers. These 2 mods multiply upon eachother, so with each at 100% you will do 400% of your normal autoattack damage. Very sweet.If you have multiple brigands in your raid, or just 1 very active brigand, then wait for him to use his debuff before triggering your own self-buffs. In a short fight with bridand debuffs I've exceeded 2500dps before, and I don't even have very good weapons.<div></div>

[Rokjin]

<DIV>Engarde, then Finesse, then Inspiration. Then ruthless cunning after finesse expires to keep up your auto-attack damage for the next minute. If you have a decent group in the raid, just using one of those + a str ring should max out your DPS%.</DIV>

[Kharadr]

I'm happy to report I parsed 3rd on the zonewide DPS chart for Deathtoll yesterday <span>:smileyhappy:</span> Thanks for all the huge tips guys! Now if we could just get Tarinax....<span>:smileysad:</span><div></div>

[Snarks]

Hey, congratulations! glad to see stuff is working out for youdo you tank him in the water? <span>:smileywink:</span><div></div>

[Awlis]

<P>I have always wondered about how important dps buffs are over lets say proc effects.</P> <P>I tend to be put with a coercer alot cos of his great 65% dps buff however this means I do tend to miss out on procs effects.</P> <P>We all think of ultimate groups but coercer often with MT to help aggro, and if u switch in a dirge to help then the dps gets kicked as other slots taken with crusader and healers.</P> <P>so do you do dps buff or procs??.. mostly our fury's are covering the assasins</P>

[Kharadr]

We do.Well, we try. The pull is borked I think. Here's what we do:- everyone in water- conjuror pet pulls Tarinax- tank gets Tarinax' attention and pulls him into the waterAt this point, healers (and people in the MT group - I THINK) get hit by frontal AE and die.Tank aggro is tough, but yelling at tanks to ALL taunt continuously will help. The deaths on inc are what kill us though.<div></div>

[SmCaudata]

<div><blockquote><hr>Awlis wrote:<div></div> <p>I have always wondered about how important dps buffs are over lets say proc effects.</p> <p>I tend to be put with a coercer alot cos of his great 65% dps buff however this means I do tend to miss out on procs effects.</p> <p>We all think of ultimate groups but coercer often with MT to help aggro, and if u switch in a dirge to help then the dps gets kicked as other slots taken with crusader and healers.</p> <p>so do you do dps buff or procs??.. mostly our fury's are covering the assasins</p><hr></blockquote>Lets say without a DPS buff you do 25% of total damage from auto attack. This means 100% dps will give you 25% increase in total DPS.  The most I have ever seen from a proc is 5% zonewide.  If you get enough int you could maybe increase your poison damage by 40% or so, but that is still no where close to what you get from a DPS buff.Basically +DPS is the best buff you can have.  Probably followed by a dirge for caucophony of blades and DKTM or a bard for well timed Jesters Cap.  Next would be a weapon proc or a ton of int.</div>