Feigned Bravado = Aggro issues?

[Masu]

<DIV>Does the 5% hate increase slapped onto feigned bravado give Swashies issues with their aggro?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is the haste really worth the extra hate your going to be generating?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Sabatini]

Nope not at all. I've never had an aggro issue due to Bravado or anything else for that matter, including directly using my taunt. Because ideally you're using your hate transfer buff on the main tank. so the more aggro you generate, the more that gets transferred to the tank, helping them do their job better. Its one of those penalties that is secretly a benefit. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Dakkon_10]

Now if they could only make it raid, not just group. Then I wouldn't pull aggro so much during raids that I am not in the MT group =

[ArivenGemini]

<div><blockquote><hr>Dakkon_1007 wrote:Now if they could only make it raid, not just group. Then I wouldn't pull aggro so much during raids that I am not in the MT group =<hr></blockquote>I just find a caster whose dress I dont like or an assassin and put it on them/wink</div>

[ArivenGemini]

<div><blockquote><hr>Masuim wrote:<div>Does the 5% hate increase slapped onto feigned bravado give Swashies issues with their aggro?</div> <div> </div> <div>Is the haste really worth the extra hate your going to be generating?</div> <hr></blockquote>if you dont pay attention it can make things a touchy dicey.. especially if the tank doesnt know how to taunt.. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  but as the others said, the hate transfer spell changes that...  in groups when I have amends on me or I have the hate transfer on the tank (dont do both) I go full tilt and usually have no problems..</div>

[aubreyy]

I never get agro in a raid. Perhaps the int line i went down counters the 10% bravado issue. In a group it may be a different tale. I can go nuts and never ever get agro. I cant flip out, but i can go nuts

[Keldo]

Just put xfer on a healer problem solved, if you want to work at it, you also have the tools to do it w/o xfer. <div></div>

[Zygwen]

Never really been a problem for me. In raid with our Guardian tanking, I can be fully buffed +100% haste +100% dps and hate transfer off and still not grab agro. With any other tank I have to use ignorant bliss or I get agro using En Guard and Inspiration. <div></div>

[Krontak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Keldoth wrote:<BR>Just put xfer on a healer problem solved, if you want to work at it, you also have the tools to do it w/o xfer.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Its polite to ask before doing this though!  lol   But like he also said, you've got 3 other deaggro means, Hideaway, avoid censure, and evade I think it is which are usually more than sufficient.  Get master Avoid Censure and that alone is usually enough to allow you to go all out without getting too much aggro. 

[aubreyy]

<DIV>i think he's joking...putting xfer on healer is mean. need to put it on the ranger</DIV>

[AegisCrown]

i have master avoid censure and i dont use swarthy and i dont use deaggros nearly at all. i go buck nutty on my dps and dont pull the aggro so id say nope no problem using on raid.<div></div>

[Keldo]

I'm not joking, but yes you need to communicate with whoever you put your aggro transfer on.  I usually have mine on an Inquisitor and he never, ever gets aggro unless were wiping.<div></div>

[Luk]

<div><blockquote><hr>AegisCrown wrote:i have master avoid censure and i dont use swarthy and i dont use deaggros nearly at all. i go buck nutty on my dps and dont pull the aggro so id say nope no problem using on raid.<div></div><hr></blockquote>I also have master avoid censure, however if I do end up getting aggro more than a couple times on a raid, I will use one of my lower teir transfers on the least aggro creating toon in my group. 12% transfer generally solves the problem without getting my group mates into aggro issues.</div>

[Gusta]

<DIV> Yeah put your hate buff on a healer or a low dps class.  Keep Aviod up and really you should never get argo..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Its amazing how far you can be down the hate list when those buffs are up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> I know some might be thinking " You put your hate on a healer omg they gonna die" !!  Well it just doesnt happen. Very effective way of not getting argo for us  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Krontak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> aubreyy wrote:<BR> <DIV>i think he's joking...putting xfer on healer is mean. need to put it on the ranger</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>lol.. put it on the ranger, if you don't have one, I'm sure your Warlock would love the extra hate!  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Nah really though, the healer thing with using avoid censure works well if your not in the MT group.  A healer not in the main tank group shouldn't be too high up on the hate ladder to take aggro unless some serious wards or something went off right at the beginning of the fight or something.  Other than that, it does work well. </P> <P>Being in the mt group though, I usually don't even use avoid censure.  If you've got swarthy disorder at master 1 and are using it on the main tank, you shouldn't be getting much aggro at all.  Just make sure you fire off devious blade before you lay in with the Inspiration or Berate.</P> <P> </P> <P>Krontak the Disgruntled</P>

[Keldo]

Assuming you are not tanking, what is the reasoning behind not using Avoid Censure.  We don't have to juggle concentration slots, there's really absolutely no reason not to have it up?<div></div>

[BenYitzh]

Well, if you're in the main tank group, using the hate transfer will give hate to the main tank, and if you're using Avoid Censure, then you're not transfering as much hate as you could be.<div></div>

[Krontak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BenYitzhak wrote:<BR>Well, if you're in the main tank group, using the hate transfer will give hate to the main tank, and if you're using Avoid Censure, then you're not transfering as much hate as you could be.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Bingo!

[Luk]

<div><blockquote><hr>BenYitzhak wrote:Well, if you're in the main tank group, using the hate transfer will give hate to the main tank, and if you're using Avoid Censure, then you're not transfering as much hate as you could be.<div></div><hr></blockquote>IncorrectAggro transfer only transfers threat, not threat reductionThis has been tested by myself and others, get a friend that can take a few hits, put your aggro transfer on them, keep Avoid Censure up, you pull the mob, watch what happens when Avoid procs.</div>

[the flu]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>BenYitzhak wrote:Well, if you're in the main tank group, using the hate transfer will give hate to the main tank, and if you're using Avoid Censure, then you're not transfering as much hate as you could be.<div></div><hr></blockquote><strike>Has anyone actually proven this?</strike> last I heard, the only hate that is transfered comes from damage done, not taunting and certainly not detaunting. Avoid censure is a detaunt, and does not reduce the amount of hate you generate, only the amount you currently have.Edit: apparently, the person above me has tested this <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><p>Message Edited by the fluke on <span class=date_text>06-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:47 AM</span>

[Luk]

<div></div>Yeah, I tried it the other day with a zerka, we were waiting on a named to pop and clearing the ph, while waiting on pops, I would go wandering and pull random mobs, not many of them actually came at me, most ran straight for the zerka.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Licit on <span class=date_text>06-29-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:53 AM</span>

[Krontak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Licit wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BenYitzhak wrote:<BR>Well, if you're in the main tank group, using the hate transfer will give hate to the main tank, and if you're using Avoid Censure, then you're not transfering as much hate as you could be.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Incorrect<BR><BR>Aggro transfer only transfers threat, not threat reduction<BR><BR>This has been tested by myself and others, get a friend that can take a few hits, put your aggro transfer on them, keep Avoid Censure up, you pull the mob, watch what happens when Avoid procs.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Makes sense and glad you mentioned something.  Guess I learn something new every day.  I just could of sworn the tank was holding aggro better as of late.</P> <P>Avoid censure says you lower the hate to the swashbuckler with a proc.</P> <P>And swarthy disorder transfers some of the blame for attacking to an ally.</P> <P>So, regardless of if Avoid procs or not on say a 1000 hp mele attack, 200 of that will be transfered to the MT.</P> <P>What happened when avoid censure proc'ed anyways?  I can't get someone to stand still more than 2 minutes at a time to test anything and too stupid to figure out word problems!<BR></P>

[Ri]

If you really want to go insane crazy, just pop an ignorant bliss poison on.  Think it's T5 where they show up and they proc -750 threat or somesuch.  Talk about not getting aggro.  <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Luk]

<div><blockquote><hr>Krontak wrote:<div></div><p>What happened when avoid censure proc'ed anyways?  I can't get someone to stand still more than 2 minutes at a time to test anything and too stupid to figure out word problems!</p><hr></blockquote>The mob ran straight at the zerka without even a passing glance at me.</div>

[Teksun]

I know (ok - I THINK) you were kidding about putting hate on a Ranger, but if he knows in advance he can dump it probably quicker than you can give it. My main is a Ranger and on Raids I almnost never have to use my deagro CA's...<div></div>

[Tyr]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Dakkon_1007 wrote:Now if they could only make it raid, not just group. Then I wouldn't pull aggro so much during raids that I am not in the MT group =<hr></blockquote>Just slap it on the tank in your group with all your deaggro buffs up... Bruisers and Monks especially love this... hahaYou could also always leave the deaggro buffs down and slap it on the brig in your group...Edit... guess I should have read down some... haha alot of people do the same thing I do... and I didn't know that Avoid Censure doesn't reduce the hate... what about the int aa line ability that reduces the amount of hate you generate?  I would imagine that does reduce the hate transfered because that reduces prior to damage being done.  Have you tried that Lukia?<div></div><p>Message Edited by Garosantith on <span class="date_text">07-06-2006</span> <span class="time_text">11:25 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Garosantith on <span class=date_text>07-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:26 AM</span>

[Xanoth]

<blockquote><hr>Garosantith wrote:<div></div><div></div>Just slap it on the tank in your group with all your deaggro buffs up... Bruisers and Monks especially love this... haha<hr></blockquote>asked a similar question on the assassin boards after the assassin kept transfering to the bruiser who was out DPSing her anyway on some fights. so no they dont love looking like idiots for pulling agro on a raid.general answer i got back was to transfer to people that generate little hate themselves, like clerics or bards.

[Snarks]

u should always have feigned bravado up.. with a good haste item and master1 its easy for swash to cap self haste which is a really cool feature of the class <div></div>

[Lea]

I always assumed that the hate transfer was just for the person you cast it on, that it wasn't that you were actually doing xx% less hate.  So you're not even generating that much hate and it goes directly to the tank?  Wouldn't that effectively halve your chance aggro in a group?  At 70, you do 25% less and the tank is doing 25% more?<div></div>

[Ri]

<div><blockquote><hr>Leavy wrote:I always assumed that the hate transfer was just for the person you cast it on, that it wasn't that you were actually doing xx% less hate.  So you're not even generating that much hate and it goes directly to the tank?  Wouldn't that effectively halve your chance aggro in a group?  At 70, you do 25% less and the tank is doing 25% more?<div></div><hr></blockquote>From what I understand, yea.  So if you do 100 pts worth of hate and have a 25% transfer on the tank, you've now done only 75 pts of hate and 25 pts have gone to the tank.  That's what I understand the transfer part to mean anyway.Although I guess it could mean you do 100 pts worth of hate and although you still have 100 pts against you, the tank now has 25 pts of hate.  Not sure if there's anyway to test that actually.Least I know it works. . .I can pull with the transfer on the tank, no one else in group does anything, I hit evade and the mob runs right for the tank.</div>

[Snarks]

<blockquote><hr>Leavy wrote:I always assumed that the hate transfer was just for the person you cast it on, that it wasn't that you were actually doing xx% less hate.  So you're not even generating that much hate and it goes directly to the tank?  Wouldn't that effectively halve your chance aggro in a group?  At 70, you do 25% less and the tank is doing 25% more?<div></div><hr></blockquote>that kindof assumes that tank hate equals scout dps throughout entire fight, which isn't very applicable. granted you will be doing 25% less and the tank will be doing 25% more, but 75% and 125% is certainly not "half chance of getting aggro". im not saying it doesnt help, but saying it halves your chances seems kindof irrelevant. it all depends on a balance of how good the scout is and how good the tank is. deaggro is also good to smack on other people in a group (in a raid without maintank in group), but if they start dying probably a good idea to take it off <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> troubadors work nicely it was pretty cool when we could put deaggro on little mushroom pet but they nerfed that <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[aubreyy]

<DIV>Over the past week, ive been stressin with my aggro. I am trying to figuire out why..Ive been getting in a group with a warden lately, and I my str is capped and I have a 24% DPS mod is all i can think of. I have been putting my transfer on her, and I have the int line, and i but still pulling aggro like mad. I have never gotten aggro in a raid before really, and I wasnt even using my transfer until this week, and I rarely used elude or hideaway...now im spamming them. Im not sure what the sudden difference is, but I may have to go defensive or not use bravado.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know this is rediculous, but i just got a new sword, and it has a proc that gives me a defense buff. Is it possible this is adding hate? I will link it to you</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://imageshack.us/?x=my6&myref=http://www.imageshack.us/" target=_blank><IMG alt=img367/8362/sword5rr.jpg src="http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/8362/sword5rr.jpg"></A>setImgWidth();</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by aubreyy on <SPAN class=date_text>07-13-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>09:19 AM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by aubreyy on <SPAN class=date_text>07-13-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>10:17 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by aubreyy on <span class=date_text>07-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:17 AM</span>

[Keldo]

It might be, do you have something similar that you can test it against?I can run 100% with no aggro transfer and not get aggro these days, so it also may be your tank if you are in a newer type raiding guild.When not raiding, yeah I get aggro sometimes, especially in groups with tanks I don't know.<div></div>

[aubreyy]

<DIV>Our tank is hot, and the same one as always. I guess ill try it with my old sword on friday and see. As soon as I turn inspiration on the mob punks me the last 2 raids. Very confused.</DIV>

[the flu]

Have you been grouping with a pally lately but not previously? swarthy and amends don't play nice with each other.<div></div>

[aubreyy]

<P>No, we dont roll with a single pally. We have an SK, but I am never in the same group with him. Prolly different anyhow. The only difference is the warden. I am usually put in the gorup with a defiler. I am all the way down the int line, so I should have a leg up on hate reduc..</P>

[MrDiz]

<blockquote><hr>Dakkon_1007 wrote:Now if they could only make it raid, not just group. Then I wouldn't pull aggro so much during raids that I am not in the MT group =<hr></blockquote>You may want to look at your raid setup <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I am the number two DPSer in my guild (beaten only by an assassin) and I NEVER ever get aggro even with every debuff on the mob. For fights where the tank cant auto-attack (cos of ripostes) Ill use the aggro debuff posion, but apart from that I have found our aggro skills more than enough to make sure im the LAST person killed in a wipe <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />