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[DarkMirrax]

<DIV> <DIV>With the new betrayal dawning i have retired my swashie at lvl 50 so that i could have the option of betraying to brigand without having to worry about spell reduction to ap1 </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the time has come to bring him out of retirement and start lvling him again soon and im just looking for some of u higher levels to adivise me pls <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>is it worth swapin to our brothers ? i know its not going to be a major deal with being able to betray back but i do want to make the right decision ..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>thank everyone in advance</DIV></DIV>

[Keldo]

Really it depends on your situation.  In a solo/small group/full group type playstyle, Brigands and Swashbucklers are pretty much interchangeable with no noticeable difference.  We do about the same damage, etc. The only reason I would see to betray is if you were in a guild that wanted to raid and could not recruit brigands.  Having a brigand all the time at your raids is quite a boost when compared to a swashbuckler.  This only applies to one brigand tho, if you already have some, may as well stay as a swashbuckler because we offer some unique debuffs that brigands cannot. <div></div>

[Geero]

<DIV>I am actually thinking about betraying...</DIV> <DIV>Just because guild I'm currently in don't have brigand and we have 2 swashies.  And I seriously don't think swashy and brig can be interchangable.  Brig brings so much more to debuff table then swashy its not even funny.  I chose rogue for debuff not dps, so I am leaning towards brig more then anything right now.</DIV>

[Mion da Peon]

<P><IMG src="http://www.engrish.com/image/engrish/mistakes-peaples-make.jpg"></P> <P>Swashies are the best, 4 real!</P>

[SageGaspar]

<div><blockquote><hr>Keldoth wrote:Really it depends on your situation.  In a solo/small group/full group type playstyle, Brigands and Swashbucklers are pretty much interchangeable with no noticeable difference.  We do about the same damage, etc. The only reason I would see to betray is if you were in a guild that wanted to raid and could not recruit brigands.  Having a brigand all the time at your raids is quite a boost when compared to a swashbuckler.  This only applies to one brigand tho, if you already have some, may as well stay as a swashbuckler because we offer some unique debuffs that brigands cannot. <div></div><hr></blockquote>I think swashes actually bring a lot more to the group, but brigs bring a lot more to the raid. If you can choose between which rogues you got you probably already have the classes to take haste and DPS to the floor, physical mit and certainly magic mit don't add up the same way either (magic isn't a terribly great debuff, mental I'll give you is nice). The stat debuffs... I don't know, it's tough to tell what kind of effect they're actually having.Not that I'm complaining or anything, as I love my swash and certainly hope they leave both rogues alone, just do think the brig has at least a slight raid advantage. Multiple brigs for dispatches would be very nice as well. Multiple swashes... eh, doesn't really do anything.</div>

[Carna]

<P>I personally think Brigands are <EM>more</EM> compelling in raids and Swashbucklers are <EM>more</EM> compelling in groups... both offer a strong presence in both and neither can be said to be anything but strong in each environment. I think Sage sums it up well. Brigand burst damage is being toned down just a wee bit in LU24 and I think it will make this distinction very slightly more pronounced.</P> <P>If you decide Brigand makesure you like a backtabbing playstyle. I do as it happens which is why I chose Brigand in the first place, as it keeps me engage as a player during combat. Again this isn't a huge distinction just something to keep in mind. For instance when looking at the STA AA line as a Brigand I'm aware of the fact that all my best CAs will be difficult to use if tanking.</P> <P>I personally group a lot more than raid and I'm considering switching to Swashbuckler. If I raided more I'd definately stick as a Brigand.... and to be clear I'd repeat that's not to suggest that both Rogues aren't strong in both raids and groups.</P>

[DarkMirrax]

Ty for the responses , our guild currently only has one brigand who doesnt raid but we do have 3 swashies so im leaning more to the brig probably just for something different it can bring aswell .  I do like raiding so if the brig has an advantage that definatly helps me , though i can always betray back if i dont like him ... sentimental my swash was my first toon it will be hard to change to brig . again thanks for the help

[Carna]

<P>I'm sure you are aware, but I'll flag it up just on the slim offchance that you're not... betraying resets all your CAs to App I... if you can afford this, then the worst it can be for you is some time and a chance to see how the other half live.</P> <P>Oh, also be aware that Brigands don't get Dispatch until level 55.</P> <P>Just trying to think of tidbits of info that you probably have but might want to have if you don't.</P>

[DarkMirrax]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Carnagh wrote:<BR> <P>I'm sure you are aware, but I'll flag it up just on the slim offchance that you're not... betraying resets all your CAs to App I... if you can afford this, then the worst it can be for you is some time and a chance to see how the other half live.</P> <P>Oh, also be aware that Brigands don't get Dispatch until level 55.</P> <P>Just trying to think of tidbits of info that you probably have but might want to have if you don't.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Ty for the info carn , ive got my mind made on becoming brig now we do need one for raiding with and there are hardly any on Spitpaw server </P> <P>im aware the skills reset to ad1 but tbh i have all the lvl 50-64 spells crafted at AD3 or master 1 (brig masters are cheap as on our server got me dispatch for 2 plat lol) not many of the previous lvl skills will be of much use I HOPE as they should be obsolete !</P> <P>are there any pre lvl 50 spells im going to need btw that you can think of ?</P> <P> </P>

[Snarks]

pick up the bloodlines spell, level 35.. forget name unfortunatley... should go to bed... <div></div>

[Luk]

<div><blockquote><hr>snarkteeth wrote:pick up the bloodlines spell, level 35.. forget name unfortunatley... should go to bed... <div></div><hr></blockquote>Ruthless Cunning</div>

[Drevva]

I've been starting to raid more with my swashy(lvl 66).  Nothing exciting yet mostly laboratory, and the tougher T6 zones.  I noticed that i had to be really careful of AOE's when I started raiding at lvl 64, (still have to be somewhat careful).  Back then I would be one shotted more often than not.   I noticed the lvl 70 brigand, never jousted, and never really seemed to take big dmg from these.  I asked about it, was it the group makeup he was in or gear or what.  He mentioned that the brigand gets a skill to avoid AOE dmg if not directly targeted...  Seems like a big advantage in raiding to have that.  I'm sure at lvl 70 I will be able to take an  aoe hit, but 2 or three in a row would still spell trouble, Anyone know about this skill the brigands get? Drevva

[SageGaspar]

<div><blockquote><hr>Drevva wrote: I've been starting to raid more with my swashy(lvl 66).  Nothing exciting yet mostly laboratory, and the tougher T6 zones.  I noticed that i had to be really careful of AOE's when I started raiding at lvl 64, (still have to be somewhat careful).  Back then I would be one shotted more often than not.   I noticed the lvl 70 brigand, never jousted, and never really seemed to take big dmg from these.  I asked about it, was it the group makeup he was in or gear or what.  He mentioned that the brigand gets a skill to avoid AOE dmg if not directly targeted...  Seems like a big advantage in raiding to have that.  I'm sure at lvl 70 I will be able to take an  aoe hit, but 2 or three in a row would still spell trouble, Anyone know about this skill the brigands get? Drevva<hr></blockquote>It helps but it shouldn't be the difference between life and death except on a couple mobs. I'm guessing it's the melee ones that are killing you, and let's face it, those mobs have a very significant 6-8 level difference on you and you're probably not really geared into T7 yet. If it's the magic AEs, there's gear out there that will get you capped on every resist without even giving up too much in the way of stats, poke around and see what you can find.The skill though is called Amazing Reflexes, it increases their hate gain but makes them immune to all non-direct AEs (i.e., the mob's not targeting them -- with a few buggy exceptions). If they take any sort of damage they're knocked out of it for something like... 30 seconds, I think?</div>

[Drevva]

I have noticed a big improvement in my survivability just in gaining 2 lvls,  and I'm starting to build up better gear.  So I do think that at lvl 70 I will be more durable.  Still be a nice skill to have *grins* but we swashies have our tricks as well, hehe. Drevva

[Geero]

<DIV>I believe Amazing Reflex works somewhat like how mezzed mob works against our AE.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And as melee class I'm surpised that your guild let you come into lab at level 66. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV>We don't let anyone under 68 into the lab just because they won't survive the AE and if they do, you are wasting healer's power...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And as I mentioned above I'm going to brigand after LU24 and switching to str/agi line.  Close to having Dispatch every 30 sec will increase raid dps a lot. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Drevva]

Well I get to come into the labs because we can't  field a full 24 person raid yet, at 64 I was probably a liability, though at lvl 66 now I am actually a net benefit I'm sure.  At 66 I no longer die from an AOE, and watching my combat pane, with my setup and buffs, I'm  doing nice dps and generally all my debuffs are landing, whats not to like <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. I know which of the trash mobs aoe, so will do a bit of jousting, or use ranged until the aoe'r is taken out.  ( I hate the cost of ammo btw). When all the pets die I know I can run in for a bit to get my debuffs off.   Against the trash mobs it is all about taking them out fast, healers never run out of power, against the named I'm more cautious, and rarely get caught in an aoe.  Would a lvl 70 be better to have, I'm sure they would but when I hit 66, I noticed a big increase in my hit /miss ratio, and much less healing required <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. (learning the encounters doesn't hurt either). A raid for the labs would be silly to pass up a lvl 66 swashie if they have the open spot. and as a benefit I'm now  hooked on raiding, so by this weekends raid they will have a lvl 68 swashie hehe <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. Drevva

[SageGaspar]

Yeah, my guild used to raid labs with over half of them in the mid-60s hehe. It's not actually too terrible, you can kill the trash and get relic out of it and I think we even took down Pardas Predd the first time that way, but now that we're all 70s we can handle the first Alzid and three droags.<div></div>

[Carna]

<P>Aye the skill is Amazing Reflexes. No AE damage from any non-direct AE... breaks for 30sec if you take any form of damage.</P> <P>If you raid much it's absolutely... well... "Amazing"... if you don't raid much (read: me) then it's a largely wasted CA. Think of it as a choice between Amazing Reflexes and Hurricane as to which would be bettor you and your particular gameplay. It will differ from person to person.</P>

[Mialia]

          <blockquote><hr>Carnagh wrote:<div></div> <p>Aye the skill is Amazing Reflexes. No AE damage from any non-direct AE... breaks for 30sec if you take any form of damage.</p> <p>If you raid much it's absolutely... well... "Amazing"... if you don't raid much (read: me) then it's a largely wasted CA. Think of it as a choice between Amazing Reflexes and Hurricane as to which would be bettor you and your particular gameplay. It will differ from person to person.</p><hr></blockquote>Amazing reflexes can help you in groups when you are tanking (ie when you're grouping with just a healer/mage/other scout) since it helps you to keep aggro.<div></div>