Swash(God)Tank

[Wildfury77]

Was in PoA group last night - lvl 66 swashie Sta 4/4/4/5 atm.My group had no idea how effective a swashtank is at both holding agro and killing really really fast!!8000 hitpoints (templar + mystic buffs)Berate master 1 for taunting + swear obviously <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Very high mitigation/avoidance and our insane DPS.Result? a very happy group and 5 more people who won't ever laugh at scout tanking again <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Luk]

<div></div>I was 4/4/4/4/8 STA, at lvl 70 I tanked Halls of Fate, 10.5k health, 4.8k mit and 65% avoid (Templar and Mystic buffs), the 50% threat proc on Formation is fantastic for holding aggro, even from a necro going nuts.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Licit on <span class=date_text>05-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:37 AM</span>

[Wildfury77]

My group was me (MT), dirge, ranger x2, mystic and templar FYI<div></div>

[Severed Ha]

<DIV>I duo with my Mystic all the time.  Im lvl 70 and my Mystic is Lvl 44.  There are times that even after I taunt all the mobs and even get in both my AoE's that the Mystic somehow manages to get Aggro from me.  This is only after 1 cast of his Ward most the time and after I have started the fight and not before.  Seems kinda strange but at times it seems the "taunt" acts in reverse and de-taunts or something.  Most the time this happens on the large groups of mobs such as 6 or so dbl down arrow herioc mobs.  The regular herioc IE.. 3 ^ or a single ^^^ I have no problem with keeping aggro on.  It just seems that the more mobs that are part of that Herioc group the Taunt is somehow being divided between them all.  Basically in that Group of 6 if my Taunt is suppose to taunt for 600(random number).  Eash one is only getting 100 Taunt amount or something instead of the full 600 each.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Any of you getting this same problem with other classes?</DIV>

[Wildfury77]

Not so far....i can hold agro and peel of any adds. I take it you don't have your elude proc on and certainly no hate transfer??<div></div>

[Severed Ha]

Nope. No hate transfer, Hate reducers or anything like that on at anytime when Duoing with my Mystic.  There are even times that the Mystic actually gets aggro when I use my Inspiration line.  Seems really odd at times when it happens but as I said. Only really seems to happen when I am fighting the dbl down arrow Herioc group mobs.

[Geero]

<DIV>This thread title is kinda misleading...  I hardly think we are "God tank", since once we lose agro its hard to gain agro back.</DIV> <DIV>But I've tanked in most t7 zones except HoF and there is only one class I lose agro to most of times.  That's assassins, when they have 2 crits in a roll...  You have dead assassin.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In small group situations well played brawler beats any other tank.</DIV>

[Zodi]

<P>This is one of these emaisl that misslead people. </P> <P>I am not trying to deny the utility of a swashbuckler, but call a swashie a god-tank is trully out contest. We are jack of all trades but master of none. </P> <P>Bruisers / Monks are much better tank / DPS combination than us. </P> <P>Calling a Swashbuckler a GOD-TANK is my opinion askign for trouble. We are a good class but no mean we are a superb class</P> <P> </P> <P>just my two cents</P>

[Atd]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Wildfury77 wrote:<BR>My group was me (MT), <FONT size=7>dirge</FONT>, ranger x2, mystic and templar FYI<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>There's you answer to being a God Tank :smileywink:</P> <P>Atdanl 43 Dirge</P>

[Crono1321]

Yeah I think you are just getting excited because you *can* tank if you wanted to.  Our mitigation and avoidance is generally lower than a fighter's, as well as our HP is much lower.  Obviously if you have other classes (swash,assassin,dirge,coercer) channeling you extra threat, then you're going to hold aggro better.  I tank frequently on my swashbuckler, but ONLY because there's no fighters available. <div></div>

[Wildfury77]

<u><b><font color="#ffff00">Not sure its misleading! just not what some of us want to hear i suspect.....</font></b></u><b><i>1) Losing agro: How?</i></b> a well played swashie can handle a conj/necro going nuts. As long as you tell your group to let you get first 3 hits in....Devious blade, followed by next hit being yours. Master 1 taunt, AoE taunt + attacks. Elude proc turned off + no hate transfer.....insane hate. For those who doubt,<u> <i>IF you wanted to steal agro consisently from a standard tank would you honestly struggle?</i></u><i><b>2)Hitpoints</b></i> with the stamina line (+ tanking equipment) are about the same as paladin/shadowknight<i><b>3)Mitigation</b></i> is less than plate tanks but avoidance much higher (about 60%), other way round for paper tanks.<font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ffffff"><i><b>4)Group invis, Evac and common sense</b></i>.......= a safe group</font><b><i>Sure - no rescue abilities and not as good as a well equipped tank, <u>but better than a lot of them! </u>i always examine and chat with the "tank" in my group to work out who's MT. Often they will go for me and back me up. ASSUME - makes an [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] out of U and ME. </i></b></font><div></div>

[Crono1321]

<blockquote><hr>Wildfury77 wrote:<u><b><font color="#ffff00">Not sure its misleading! just not what some of us want to hear i suspect.....</font></b></u><b><i>1) Losing agro: How?</i></b> a well played swashie can handle a conj/necro going nuts. As long as you tell your group to let you get first 3 hits in....Devious blade, followed by next hit being yours. Master 1 taunt, AoE taunt + attacks. Elude proc turned off + no hate transfer.....insane hate. For those who doubt,<u> <i>IF you wanted to steal agro consisently from a standard tank would you honestly struggle?</i></u><i><b>2)Hitpoints</b></i> with the stamina line (+ tanking equipment) are about the same as paladin/shadowknight<i><b>3)Mitigation</b></i> is less than plate tanks but avoidance much higher (about 60%), other way round for paper tanks.<font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ffffff"><i><b>4)Group invis, Evac and common sense</b></i>.......= a safe group</font><b><i>Sure - no rescue abilities and not as good as a well equipped tank, <u>but better than a lot of them! </u>i always examine and chat with the "tank" in my group to work out who's MT. Often they will go for me and back me up. ASSUME - makes an [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] out of U and ME. </i></b></font><div></div><hr></blockquote>1.  I'm not even going to comment on this because we all know its not true. 2.  A warrior in a t7 group will have around 8k hp if he is geared up...group only.  Raids we all know they will have 10-12k+++ 3.  A tank with a shield on will typically have at least 40% avoidance in a group, with an extra 2k hp over you, and 500-1000mitigation over you.  Remember that avoidance goes to hell when you are tanking mobs that are yellow con or higher, this is why brawlers sometimes have a hard time doing this. 4. Your utility has nothing to do with you tanking.  SK Gets evac as well as a targetable FD for aggro pullers.  We do possess the skills to tank, but not for extended periods of time, and certainly not in a fast-paced xp group.  Typically you will be fighting deep yellow (3+ levels higher than yourself) mobs in an xp group, making your avoidance look like a joke.  In defensive mode your melee skills will be so low that every mob parries/avoids around 50% of your attacks, including devious blade, razor point, and your other high aggro attacks.  You are forced to stay either in offensive mode or without a stance at all if you are tanking and expect to keep aggro.  I only tank if there is no other option.  You can keep fooling yourself and wasting AA on the stamina line, I will do no such thing.<div></div>

[Gyilok]

i have tanked every t7 heroic stuff with my brigand when grinding up, even with only 1 healer sometimes, dw and offensive stance, almost no aa-s, sta line is only needed if you are extra keen on being different then the rest or wanna tank real epic content

[SageGaspar]

<div><blockquote><hr>Crono1321 wrote:<blockquote><font color="#ff0000"><b><i></i></b></font></blockquote>1.  I'm not even going to comment on this because we all know its not true. 2.  A warrior in a t7 group will have around 8k hp if he is geared up...group only.  Raids we all know they will have 10-12k+++ 3.  A tank with a shield on will typically have at least 40% avoidance in a group, with an extra 2k hp over you, and 500-1000mitigation over you.  Remember that avoidance goes to hell when you are tanking mobs that are yellow con or higher, this is why brawlers sometimes have a hard time doing this. 4. Your utility has nothing to do with you tanking.  SK Gets evac as well as a targetable FD for aggro pullers.  We do possess the skills to tank, but not for extended periods of time, and certainly not in a fast-paced xp group.  Typically you will be fighting deep yellow (3+ levels higher than yourself) mobs in an xp group, making your avoidance look like a joke.  In defensive mode your melee skills will be so low that every mob parries/avoids around 50% of your attacks, including devious blade, razor point, and your other high aggro attacks.  You are forced to stay either in offensive mode or without a stance at all if you are tanking and expect to keep aggro.  I only tank if there is no other option.  You can keep fooling yourself and wasting AA on the stamina line, I will do no such thing.<div></div><hr></blockquote>I've tanked yellow +3 with wisdom line one-handers and no STA line at all. You're the one fooling yourself if you think a swashbuckler can't do it, and it's not because we're the uberest tank, it's because group content is easy enough that all that matters is aggro control and decent tanking stats.If you're actually in T7 you know there's an easy piece for practically every slot that has +piercing or +slashing on it. Feet of Spykrachis is +3 piercing, Hoo'loh's Hat is .. I dunno, +5 I think, the collection orb is another +3 or +5. If you go up STA line at STA5 you get a hold the line proc, 400 mit, and I think a health bonus. Put on a shield and consider the STA and health percentage bonus you got on the way up there along with the AE taunt and you're sitting pretty. Also bear in mind that you have not one, but ... what, five, defensive stances. You can use any of them that you choose and get a different trade-off of + defense for - offense. Now you have the option of going WIS5 if you want to get rid of the penalty basically on your top defensive stance, that with your piercing mod gear should easily enable you to hit yellows, especially since you're *gasp* a scout and should be using Double-Cross on every mob that you fight to kill their defense.As for yellow mobs killing avoidance, yellow mobs kill mitigation the same way too. And not just in the sense that you need more mitigation to cap (which is true of avoidance as well), but just they have an extra damage bonus against lower levels. This gets even more exaggerated when they become orange cons.As to utility, how many fighters do you know that can apply debuff poisons and power drain poisons? You don't think there's an advantage to a tank that never runs out of power?</div>

[Keldo]

<div></div>I won't advocate the STA line because I think it is unnecessary, but saying a Swash can't tank an xp group is dumb.  I do it all the time in PoA and there is no loss over a tank.  XP group content is very easy, basically anyone can tank it.  The skills argument is also pointless, our DEF stance puts us down about 18, which is made up and more with just Swindler's Luck, not to mention its on almost every piece of scout gear now. A good player behind with STA AA backing them could tank as well as any tank with the proper gear.  Even easier raid mobs.  Just as an example, lets take a look here at your mitigation possibilities. At the moment I am sitting at 3800 mitigation in defensive stance self buffed.  Add in Formation and that gives me 4220 mitigation.  Normal MT group +732 (priest) +425 (paladin), and just for giggles I'll give myself a Conjuror for another 300.  That gives me 5677 mitigation.  Plus 240 for metalic hues, I'm at 5917.  That is more mitigation than our MT had for the two months of KoS raiding and I certainly would have more avoidance.  With that kind of gear you could tank most common raid mobs easily and utterly dominate single group content.  That is not even mentioning the 13% extra HP you will have as a result of this either.  Actually the more I look at it, the more interested I am to see what exactly I could tank, haha. Do I want to?  No, if I did I would play a tank.  But that doesn't mean someone out there can't. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Keldoth on <span class=date_text>05-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:10 PM</span>

[Wildfury77]

<div></div><div></div><b><i><u>SNAP...my HPs max out @ 8k in a 6 man group too!!</u></i></b>, within 50hp of SK in same group in legendary kit........whats this "tanks" problem? worried about a little competition?I'm a supporter of the stamina line mathematically and in practice....i know the arguments here. Its really quite a good option. I'm not reposting the maths and the same old arguments.....look on previous posts.And i'm sorry that you dismiss our agro holding - all that shows is that you haven't set you swashie up as a backup tank! trust me losts of us do it very well...<div></div><p>Message Edited by Wildfury77 on <span class="date_text">05-27-2006</span> <span class="time_text">03:25 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Wildfury77 on <span class=date_text>05-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:26 PM</span>

[LlewCadey]

well i just respecced my venekor swash, today, 66 and 37 aa so far. i also took advantage of the free respecin T7 we all no regen on mana and what not are moot (esp with the manadrain poisons) so i went back and respeced everything to my health pool total. add that to the STA AA line and its a hefty boost. I went from 4200 to 5200 self buffed HP, and please note i am only in 20% legendary gear atm, with fabled or mroe legendary im sure that will go up to 6k no sweat. As for avoidance and mit, its all good, getting arround 60% on both stats self buffed, more if grouped with the right classesthe biggest thing im noting is that for a small trade off in DPS from the wis line (39% better than Dual Weilds) to the 56% dps buff (23% better than DW) im gaining 20% more staying power in fights, probably better, also the ability to tank for groups helps immensly. Im hoping to run STR 4/4/8 and STA 4/4/8/8/8 once i max AAs, that should make me one badass swash tank, adn pvp enemy.<div></div>

[Carna]

<P>For some reason I'm reminded of the lyrics...</P> <P><EM><FONT color=#ffff00>You do it to yourself, you do<BR>and that's what really hurts<BR>You do it to yourself, just you<BR>you and no-one else<BR>You do it to yourself<BR>You do it to yourself </FONT></EM></P> <P>I know, I know. It's a reasonable discussion about an aspect of the Rogue that's there by design. I'm just of the school of thought that says keep your head down, keep your mouth shut, don't let the man with a big stick notice you.... each to their own however <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>When I flesh out enough AA I must confess I intend to have a gander at the STA AA line myself. As a Brigand I have to be really careful not to pull aggro in groups and being a bit more robust would be good.</P>

[angelkain]

<DIV>Brigand tank >>> Swashy tank, but Ive still thought about taking the aa line a few times for fun.  Think I will stick with double-attack.  works wonders with hurricane.</DIV>

[Fait]

<P>Zodian wrote-</P> <P>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____</P> <P>This is one of these emaisl that misslead people. </P> <P>I am not trying to deny the utility of a swashbuckler, but call a swashie a god-tank is trully out contest. We are jack of all trades but master of none. </P> <P>Bruisers / Monks are much better tank / DPS combination than us. </P> <P>Calling a Swashbuckler a GOD-TANK is my opinion askign for trouble. We are a good class but no mean we are a superb class</P> <P> </P> <P>just my two cents</P> <P>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____</P> <P>I dont know about calling the swashy a god tank but i must say my swashy is amazing. Holds or draws aggro like a fiend and hits like a freight train. The chain armor gives much better MIT then any bruiser or monk and my avoidance 51.2% is equal or greater then most bruisers or monks.</P> <P>In a straight dual I can easily dissect a bruiser or monk of several levels higher then I. IMHO pound for pound the swashy is the most devistating physical class in the game.</P> <P>My assasin is wonderful for one on one encounters but the swashy can take down entire heroic groups in seconds.</P><p>Message Edited by FaithL on <span class=date_text>05-31-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:10 AM</span>

[Carna]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> angelkain wrote:<BR> <DIV>Brigand tank >>> Swashy tank, but Ive still thought about taking the aa line a few times for fun.  Think I will stick with double-attack.  works wonders with hurricane.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yes and no. The Brigands ability to take damage is better than the Swashbuckler. The Swashbuckler however can deliver far more of his attacks than the Brigand who needs to be behind the mob to deliver most of his best attacks. The Swashbuckler can also maintain aggro easier with AE.... so yes the Brigand takes damage better. No, I think a Swashbuckler can actually <EM>perform</EM> the job easier.

[Masu]

<DIV>Lukia.....That wood elf in your sig looks so [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] ugly lol.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>