Offsetting the penalty for def. stance.

[Greyson1]

<DIV>I have a 37 Swashbuckler I duo with my wifes Mystic, when I go in def. stance my offensive skills go so low its hard for me to hit grouped blues and even greens.  Just watch all the "parries" "Dodges" as I waste my 2 AE attacks.  How do you guys offset this?  I know the penalty for this gets worse at higher levels, how do you guys deal with it or your experience differnt then mine?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have all my weapon skills maxxed and try to keep up swindlers luck.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks!</DIV>

[Krakenap]

<P>I spent a lot of time duoing with a Mystic.</P> <P>First of all, try using no-stance instead of defensive stance.  While not as good as defensive it's still good (and better than you would be in defensive without a mystic).</P> <P>Secondly - at high levels you get gear with + to offensive skills.  I have quite a few items with + piercing or +slashing.<BR><BR>Finally, if this is something you plan to do for a long time, use your AA skills.  Go down the Wisdom line and get a skill called Coule.  This will increase your offensive abilities even while in defensive stance and bring them up to reasonable levels.</P>

[corva]

When I solo with my brigand in def. stance I just trigger the swindler's luck HO and after that I seem to be able to hit yellow's just fine, just have to remember to get it up again once it runs out <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[m0ya]

You seems to forget the Interrupt of the offensive stance <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> It's not said that it'S not working on epic... is it working on epic???

[Belizarius]

<P>The reason tanks get taunts is partly because they wouldn't hold aggro in defensive stance any other way.</P> <P>If you are duoing with a healer, it's probably not worth the drop in DPS to go defensive.  Alternatively, you could open up with some debuffs then go defensive and see how it goes.</P>

[Krakenap]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> m0ya wrote:<BR> You seems to forget the Interrupt of the offensive stance <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> It's not said that it'S not working on epic... is it working on epic???<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Where's this coming from?  It works on epics.

[Krontak]

If you go WIS line you get a pretty good offset from the last ability Coule, which adds like 16 or something or another to all mele skills.

[Rokjin]

<P>Coule scales with level.. currently at 67 it's 16.1 to Slashing, Piercing, Ranged, Parry and Defense.</P> <P>It's actually a very good ability. With Swindler's Luck I pretty much can self-cap my offensive skills, and the parry and defense boosts make my avoidance go up nicely.</P> <P>Very good for any PvP, occasional Solo or Single group Swashbuckler.</P>

[Shagg]

I 2 box a Swash Mystic combo. I only use def stance if I train myself or have a particularly hard hitting mob to fight. Get the highest upgrade to your offensive and defensive stances you can afford as it will lessen the penalties. Put them both on a hotbar you can hit via keyboard (reg, alt or ctrl) and stay in offensive stance unless things go poorly, but you can quickly switch stances (you have to hit the new stance twice, once to cancel old stance and once to apply the new one).If you find you are taking too much damage you may look to your gear. Make sure no mitigation bearing armor is 14 levels lower than the mobs you are fighting. Same thing for weapons. Also since you have a Mystic buffing your stats make sure you aren't sacrificing mitigation for attribute stats when choosing armor. Real swashes don't wear leather...When your Mystic hits 47 and gets Avatar, the boost to your avoidance from the AGI will better offset your offensive stance. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Also make sure your Mystic has a high quality Runic buff (increases mitigation and has a regen'ing ward).I'd also recommend pre-warding before pulls, but watch adds or multiple pulls. If you don't get agro before they start beating on the Mystic the group wards will generate even more agro for the mystic as they get pounded.Disclaimer: My experiences are based on full legendary/adept3 or better and starting around level 54 (when I split to 2 accounts). Mileage may vary.Oh yeah and remember a swash is not the best tank in the game. A comparably equip'd Fighter class will be better at mitigating or avoiding damage, so be careful what you hunt. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Terron]

<blockquote><hr>Shaggis wrote:If you find you are taking too much damage you may look to your gear. Make sure no mitigation bearing armor is 14 levels lower than the mobs you are fighting. <div></div><hr></blockquote> Could you expand on this, please?<div></div>

[SageGaspar]

<div><blockquote><hr>pjackson wrote:<blockquote><hr>Shaggis wrote:If you find you are taking too much damage you may look to your gear. Make sure no mitigation bearing armor is 14 levels lower than the mobs you are fighting. <div></div><hr></blockquote> Could you expand on this, please?<div></div><hr></blockquote>This is an ongoing thing. Moorgard said that absolutely, positively, no way does armor lose mitigation as you level. A piece of level 1 handcrafted armor with 1000 mit should theoretically protect more than a piece of level 70 fabled with 600 mit. I've never tested this since it's not important to me, but some people have noticed the percent of mitigation decreasing if you equip slightly higher mitigation armor from a lower tier. This is just on the visual display. I don't know if there's been anyone that tested it, and it's really really hard to parse a difference of something like 1% or less.Anyway, the advice is still sound, if your gear is that far out of date I guarantee there's something you could quest or buy cheap that'll beat it.</div>

[overfloat]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SageGaspar wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've never tested this since it's not important to me, but some people have noticed the percent of mitigation decreasing if you equip slightly higher mitigation armor from a lower tier. This is just on the visual display.</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>I'm guessing this is the display issue that was touched on in the LU yesterday:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> <HR> <FONT color=#3399ff> - A display issue has been fixed for physical resistances in the mitigation tooltip. No functionality has changed.</FONT> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Agreed that it's still sound advice to upgrade regularly anyway. Rarely will a piece of armour that substantially lower in level have better stats than could be found on relatively easily attainable gear of your current level.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And yes, if you're tanking a lot, <U>don't</U> sacrifice any substantial mitigation for stats.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Coule is certainly the best solution (er, <EM>only</EM> solution in terms of native skills, really) to offsetting the defensive stance penalty. Other than that, it's down to <EM>+skill </EM>stats on items, Swindler's Luck, getting defensive debuffs in early, upgrading CA quality (direct effect on resistability), or going offensive and relying more on your healer. (Also usually a good option to switch from defensive to offensive stance for the last few kills in a multi-mob encounter, as you're past the major damage spike and can speed up the process with little risk.) STR directly increases your ATK, but I believe your to-hit chance is based solely on weapon skills in EQ2, not on ATK (I think ATK only contributes to the damage dealt... could be wrong but there are no +ATK items or buffs that I'm aware of in EQ2, so it isn't such a major consideration as it was in EQ1).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>m0ya -- interrupts work on Epic mobs. It's stuns, mezzes, etc., that don't work -- basically any control effect that lasts for a duration (interrupts are an instant effect with zero duration).</DIV>

[Shagg]

I can't find the old post but I swear at one time there was a post indicating armor mitigation values started to scale down as you outleveled them. And whether or not they were outleveled was determined by the level of the character trying to hit the armor versus the level of the armor. I know I've seen this in game play, but I haven't parsed it either.However in my searching I came across this post... <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=Newbie&message.id=48209&query.id=0#M48209" target=_blank>Grey Armor</a><div></div>

[adamflanagan]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Shaggis wrote:<BR>I can't find the old post but I swear at one time there was a post indicating armor mitigation values started to scale down as you outleveled them. And whether or not they were outleveled was determined by the level of the character trying to hit the armor versus the level of the armor. I know I've seen this in game play, but I haven't parsed it either.<BR><BR>However in my searching I came across this post... <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=Newbie&message.id=48209&query.id=0#M48209" target=_blank>Grey Armor</A><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>that was posted in 2004, less than a month after release. its completely irrelevent since LU #13.</P> <P>from what i remember, armour mit scaled with your level like spell damage until it went grey but this was changed with the combat changes.</P>

[Shagg]

<div><blockquote><hr>adamflanagan wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Shaggis wrote:I can't find the old post but I swear at one time there was a post indicating armor mitigation values started to scale down as you outleveled them. And whether or not they were outleveled was determined by the level of the character trying to hit the armor versus the level of the armor. I know I've seen this in game play, but I haven't parsed it either.However in my searching I came across this post... <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=Newbie&message.id=48209&query.id=0#M48209" target="_blank">Grey Armor</a> <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>that was posted in 2004, less than a month after release. its completely irrelevent since LU #13.</p> <p>from what i remember, armour mit scaled with your level like spell damage until it went grey but this was changed with the combat changes.</p><hr></blockquote>I'd love to see a definitive response on this, but I'm pretty sure I've observed this greying out of armor. However I have no proof. From the combat changes LU13 notes: (I also looked in other update notes for a reversion of this, but do not see it)<font color="#ffcc00"><b> *** Items ***</b></font> - <b>Items now con grey if they are ineffective against opponents of your level</b>, white if you can use them, and red if you can't use them. If you are mentoring down to a lower level, your items will con purple to indicate that their effectiveness has been scaled down.</div>

[SageGaspar]

<div></div><div>Let me dredge this one up (and also be aware that I think the weapon thing has changed since then, though I'm not 100% positive):<blockquote><hr><p>Let me clarify things a bit.</p> <p>When it comes to armor, grey con is really just meant to be a helpful indicator. Because armor matters more now, we didn't want people running around in armor they had so far outgrown that they were getting no protection from it. They would die without understanding that they needed to put effort into upgrading their gear, which would no doubt leave them confused and frustrated. We considered getting rid of the grey con for armor with LU13, but this was the main reason we didn't want to. The grey color is shorthand for "time to upgrade your gear" for players who might otherwise not realize it.</p> <p>Regardless of color, you should still judge armor based on the stats it has. If a level 40 piece of armor has more mitigation and better stats than a piece of level 50 armor, use the level 40 piece. It will still provide more mitigation than the level 50 item, even though it is 10 levels lower. That's why mitigation is a fixed number on items: so you can have a clear comparison from one piece to another.</p> <p>Weapons work a bit differently. Though the stats still apply, a grey weapon won't land on an epic opponent (and potentially specially flagged non-epics).</p> <p>We aren't forcing you to give up fabled that you earned at level 50. But if you find better gear, you should want to use it, even if it has another label such as treasured or legendary.</p> <p>All that said, it is our intent that items (much like spells) are usable for a certain period of time before you outgrow them. Any time you make items that provide such a crucial benefit that players are loathe to ever give them up, you hamper itemization. Conversely, if an item has a limited lifespan, you can be much less concerned about making something that's overpowered, since you know it won't exist forever in a way that alters the balance of the game.</p> <p>===========================Steve Danuser, a.k.a. MoorgardGame Designer, EverQuest II </p><hr></blockquote></div><p>Message Edited by SageGaspar on <span class=date_text>05-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:53 PM</span>

[Shagg]

<div></div>I guess I should read the boards more often. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I see some statements in that post that sound conflicting with the overall sentiment, but perhaps I'm being to literal. Like "Because armor matters more now, we didn't want people running around in armor they had so far outgrown that they were getting no protection from it." and the fact he uses a 10 level example and voices the concerns over itemization.In the end how much does it matter? I rarely see 2 pieces of gear of comparable quality level that don't increase vastly over 14 levels. So I probably should have just stopped at upgrade your armor. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />BTW I'm pretty sure that a grey weapon will hit an epic opponent (yes a real epic not a heroic in a group flagged epic). I know a tank who claimed he saw a very real difference in damage taken when switching from cobalt (req lvl 50) to T7 treasured stuff which in some cases had less mitigation than cobalt IIRC. At the time he was around L62 fighting 65-66 mobs.I hope the other advice was useful as it seems my 14 level armor thing has no basis in fact and is rather just speculation.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Shaggis on <span class=date_text>05-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:23 PM</span>

[overfloat]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Shaggis wrote:<BR> <P>I see some statements in that post that sound conflicting with the overall sentiment, but perhaps I'm being to literal. Like "Because armor matters more now, we didn't want people running around in armor they had so far outgrown that they were getting no protection from it."</P> <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I think you might be right about being a tad too literal. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I don't think he meant armour would have exactly <EM>zero</EM> defensive properties once it conned grey. Rather there would probably armour available that the character could now wear that would provide better protection against mobs of his current level. You're still getting the listed mitigation, but you haven't scaled up your overall mitigation to match the "standard" for the current level or tier.</P> <P>In the past, though (before the full range of item con colour was removed), effective <FONT size=1>(though not displayed)</FONT> mitigation did actually scale according to the con of the armour. At least, according to those in-the-know. I just went with whatever I could lay my grubby little mitts on.</P>