Swashbuckler fighting style discussion

[rioi]

Ok, I need to make this all clear inside my head.The AA line (Wis) that allows double attacks allows more proccing and dps, plus the haste mod, plus the critical mod, etc. Would this mean someone has the chance to bring out more overall damage to a mob with auto attack than someone spamming combat arts with AGI/STR aa line? I mean OVERALL damage.So does that mean a WIS fighter will be better than a duel wielder with agi line?And also, if I were to do the AGI/STR line and spam combat arts would that mean any sort of haste (ex Flowing black silk sash)  is worthless?Are combat arts easier to parry, resist, etc than auto attack?I've read that explaination and just trying to find the best way to output damage =DThanks<div></div>

[Zygwen]

<span>Right now, WIS line is out damaging the other lines by a fair margin.Personally, I went with WIS line for several reasons.1. In raids, combat arts tend to lag, or you end up out of power on long fights so we end up doing more auto attack damage.2. One less equipment slot requiring upgrades.3. Style pointsIf you spam combat arts then yes haste and dps boost have a minimal effect.I beleive most combat arts have a higher hit rate than regular auto attack. Some combat arts have very high hit rates. This was not true however against bruiser mobs in splitpaw. Back when my swashbuckler still xped there the bruisers where my bane but all my spell casting alts owned em.You could say that currently the cookie cutter max dps set up for rogues is STR WIS or AGI WIS. AGI STR is a viable dps set up but is currently not as good as the other two. I don't think this will change because if they nerf WIS line then the cookie cutter max dps set up become AGI STR only and there will be less variety over all. If they do, well I still have my free reset available.</span><div></div>

[the flu]

<div><span>The problem I have with the wis line is it is one less slot to put stats in.  But ultimatly it is up to you if you want that sacrifice or not. I don't have the money to test various builds for most dps so I go with what I think works together <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I personally am going (after much flip flopping) partial sta partial str and throwing the rest into something entirely different. 4/4/4/8  in the two main lines (dps boost of 54% with roundsheild and whatever the crit chance increase works out to be). I'll probalby fill up agility to make up for armor stat defienciencies . My reasoning came down to finding lines that worked well together. Strength requires a sword, and sta requires a shield, so the lines complement each other, offering survivabilty and dps boosts.</span></div>

[dagoo7]

<div></div>From a pure dps standpoint, both single target and aoe (most definitely post hurricane), wisdom line is hands down the best.  Those who are questioning the loss of one slot for stats, clearly haven't actually tried it out.  That loss is infinitesimal to what one gains in return.  You really have to try it out to really get an appreciation of what it can do for you.

[Rokjin]

<div></div><p>It depends on your damage ratio.. as I calculated in another thread, you need roughly an 85% CA to 15% Auto-attack damage to get more benefit out of the str crit line then the wis line. If most of your fights you parse at about that or near it, your better off with str or agi, as those will do comparable damage without sacrificing an off-hand. Also, in any case comparing pure auto-attack, you will be doing less damage then the burst from spamming CAs in the same time period. After that first 30 seconds to a minute of spamming CAs where you are starting to wait on recasts most of the time, the Wis line will begins to gain damage on the Agi/Str lines.</p><p>What wis line does is really improve our proc percentages, and allow us to do much better longer fight damage.If all of your fights last less then 30 seconds, your beter off with Agi/Str lines from a damage standpoint. If most of your fights are longer then 30 seconds though, you'll probably see more gain from Wisdom line.</p>

[the flu]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>dagoo7 wrote:<div></div>From a pure dps standpoint, both single target and aoe (most definitely post hurricane), wisdom line is hands down the best.  Those who are questioning the loss of one slot for stats, clearly haven't actually tried it out.  That loss is infinitesimal to what one gains in return.  You really have to try it out to really get an appreciation of what it can do for you.<hr></blockquote>Fair enough,. It is one of the drawbacks in my book though. It might be out weighed by what you get in return, but the question would be how many points you have to spend.It's just a matter of looking different from every other scout out there to me anyways, seems silly to be wasting time parseing it.</span></div>

[dagoo7]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Rokjin wrote:<div></div><p>It depends on your damage ratio.. as I calculated in another thread, you need roughly an 85% CA to 15% Auto-attack damage to get more benefit out of the str crit line then the wis line. If most of your fights you parse at about that or near it, your better off with str or agi, as those will do comparable damage without sacrificing an off-hand. Also, in any case comparing pure auto-attack, you will be doing less damage then the burst from spamming CAs in the same time period. After that first 30 seconds to a minute of spamming CAs where you are starting to wait on recasts most of the time, the Wis line will begins to gain damage on the Agi/Str lines.</p><p>What wis line does is really improve our proc percentages, and allow us to do much better longer fight damage.If all of your fights last less then 30 seconds, your beter off with Agi/Str lines from a damage standpoint. If most of your fights are longer then 30 seconds though, you'll probably see more gain from Wisdom line.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Very true.  I did not mention that important caveat.  Still an 85/15 ratio is probably not too common and a combo str/wis probably makes more sense from a pure dps perspective than a str/agi.  However, I am not that familiar with the agi line or how useful the positional proc is.  It would also seem that double attack from wisdom would increase the efficacy of agi's positional proc.</p><p>Message Edited by dagoo7 on <span class="date_text">04-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:11 AM</span></p>

[Zygwen]

<span><blockquote><hr>the fluke wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>dagoo7 wrote:<div></div>From a pure dps standpoint, both single target and aoe (most definitely post hurricane), wisdom line is hands down the best.  Those who are questioning the loss of one slot for stats, clearly haven't actually tried it out.  That loss is infinitesimal to what one gains in return.  You really have to try it out to really get an appreciation of what it can do for you.<hr></blockquote>Fair enough,. It is one of the drawbacks in my book though. It might be out weighed by what you get in return, but the question would be how many points you have to spend.</span></div><hr></blockquote>To maximize Double attack the minimum you have to spend is 4-4-4-8 or 20 points in wis line. I did 4-4-8-8 because I wanted the extra 4% parry riposte but that is really optional.DPS wise, the trouble with wis line is that you have to sink 13 or 14 points before you hit the breakeven point versus dual wield.Another drawback to wis line that I just though of is that we might be taking more riposte damage per unit of time from mobs versus dual wielding.</span><div></div>