T7 poisons == rogue in a bottle?

[KnightMax]

<div></div><div><span>T7 poisons seem to lose out on the differing damage varity but and a lot more utility that last 1.2 mins (a heck of a lot longer then our debuffs)  Listing the utility common poisons the legendary ones have bigger debuffs</span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><font color="#9933ff"><span>Exceptional Cerebral Ebb</span></font><span>decrease INT -21 / decrease ministration, ordination, disruption, subjugation -10.2</span></div><div><span></span> </div><div><span><font color="#ffffff"><span><font color="#9933ff">Exceptional Warding Ebb</font></span> </font><span>decrease WIS -21 / decrease vs cold, magic, mental, disease, poison -897 / decrease vs heat 663</span></span></div><div><span><span></span></span> </div><div><span><span><span><font color="#9933ff">Exceptional Enfeebling Poison</font></span><span>decrease STR -21 / decrease ranged, crushing, piercing, slashing -10.2</span></span></span></div><div><span><span><span></span></span></span> </div><div><span><span><span><font color="#ffffff"><span><font color="#9933ff">Exceptional Gracelessness</font></span></font><span>decrease AGI -21 / decrease deflection, defense, parry -10.2</span></span></span></span></div><div><span><span><span><span></span></span></span></span> </div><div><span><span><span><span><span><font color="#00ccff">Exceptional Essence of Turgur</font></span><span>slow attack speed 18.1%</span></span></span></span></span></div><div><span><span><span><span><span></span></span></span></span></span> </div><div><span><span><span><span><span><span><font color="#33ccff">Exceptional Fettering Poison</font></span><span>slows movement 32%</span></span></span></span></span></span></div><div><span><span><span><span><span></span></span></span></span></span> </div><div><span><span><span><span><span><font color="#33ccff"><span>Exceptional Ignorant Bliss</span></font><span>decreases threat 890</span></span></span></span></span></span></div><div><span><span><span><span><span><span></span></span></span></span></span></span> </div><div><span><span><span><span><span><span><font color="#ffffff">Seems to me that rangers can use differnt purple poisons to get lots of debuffs on the mobs never have to get into ae range these debuffs last a heck of a long time plus with adding a blue hate reducer poison they wont be getting agro and all this stacks with the damage poisons.   Please tell me it isnt as bad as it looks.</font></span></span></span></span></span></span></div>

[Debunkt]

<div>How did you come up with Rangers applying multiple debuff poisons?</div><div> </div><div>Afaik all poison using classes obey the same rules about poison stacking. You can only apply 1 of the purple from your list, and 1 from the turqoise at a time.</div><div> </div><div>We have a ranged attack that has a chance to proc poison, as well as our regular ranged throws.</div><div> </div><div>/shrug</div>

[Mathe]

<div></div><p>The effects of those poisons are a lot less than that of a level 60-70 Rogue. Actually they are a lot less than a level 50-60 Rogue. Besides they can only use one from each list, hardly replacing a Rogue able to use all of their more powerful debuffs, not just two weaker ones. Plus Rogues can use these poisons, too, after all. The extra duration is meaningless, Rogues can sustain their debuffs indefinitely since almost all of them are attached to our damage abilities.</p><p>The hate reduction is not as big of a deal. Rangers don't launch as many attacks as a Rogue, so it has less chance to proc. Besides the Ranger hate loss buff is a lot less effective than the Swashbuckler one (the percentage is higher, but overall it is worse since the Swashbuckler one is twice as effective as its percentage since not only do you lose the hate, but the main tank gains it). Comparitive to Avoid Censure, the poison version is rather weak.</p><p>Rangers aren't suddenly Rogues because they can use two weaker debuffs or one weaker debuff and a hate loss potion.</p>

[Keyh]

Does that mean that the Red poisons are Predators in a bottle since they let us do more damage?<div></div>

[KnightMax]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Gokineq2 wrote:<div>How did you come up with Rangers applying multiple debuff poisons?</div><div> </div><div>Afaik all poison using classes obey the same rules about poison stacking. You can only apply 1 of the purple from your list, and 1 from the turqoise at a time.</div><div> </div><div>We have a ranged attack that has a chance to proc poison, as well as our regular ranged throws.</div><div> </div><div>/shrug</div><hr></blockquote><p>You have only 1 ranger in on the raid?  Each one doing a differnt debuff?  Yes they debuff a lot less but with the over min duration will always be up (this really doesnt effect grouping just raids)</p><p>Guess I am anoyed they giving our debuffs to predators as well as the deagro.</p><p> </p>

[Debunkt]

<div></div><p>I come from a Rangerless guild, so my mentality is a bit different. I can see what you mean having multiple rangers, multiple debuffs etc.</p><p>However, I think you'd need like 8 rangers using the special poisons to = rogue debuffs. :smileywink:</p><p> </p>

[overfloat]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Keyh wrote:Does that mean that the Red poisons are Predators in a bottle since they let us do more damage?<div></div><hr></blockquote>Good one! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><blockquote><hr>KnightMax wrote:<div></div><p>Guess I am anoyed they giving our debuffs to predators as well as the deagro.</p><hr><p></p></blockquote>The thing is: we stack with poisons. Buttload of predators mildly debuffing the mob? Or a mix of predators and rogues <u>massively</u> debuffing the mob? I know which I'd prefer.

[Mathe]

<div></div><blockquote><hr><p>You have only 1 ranger in on the raid?  Each one doing a differnt debuff?  Yes they debuff a lot less but with the over min duration will always be up (this really doesnt effect grouping just raids)</p><p>Guess I am anoyed they giving our debuffs to predators as well as the deagro.</p><p></p><hr></blockquote><p>How is it any different from all the other debuff poisons that were already available in the other tiers?</p><p>How many raid groups are going to go? We need someone to debuff the mob, so lets just invite 5 Rangers for a bunch of weak debuffs or we could invite a Swashbuckler or Brigand to massively debuff the mob.</p><p>They do stack with ours, but Swashbuckler and Brigand debuffs stack, and that is flat out massive compared to adding what are comparitively weak debuffs. This is like saying Rogues could be replaced by the hex dolls, since everyone could cast a different weak debuff with those, too.</p>

[Belizarius]

<div></div><p>I really don't see the problem.</p><p>Anywhere that they overlap with rogues, rogues get <em><strong>far</strong> </em>better debuffs anyway.  Plus, you can control when they land.  Or, using the same poisons, can make your own debuffs even more powerful.</p><p>With my raid leader hat on, the more debuffs I can get on the mob the happier I am.</p><p>There's no way I'd trade a rogue's debuffs for a bunch of poison debuffs.</p><p>As far as I can see, quite a few of those stats have always had poisons that debuffed them.  What's new about it?</p>

[SageGaspar]

It's like a fifth of rogue, and we can use them to become 120% rogues <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>