Mitigation vs. Avoidance?

[FalconWyvernsp]

<div>Sorry if this's a lame question, but does heavier armor types lower my Avoidance percent?  It seems to fluctuate based on level as is, unless I'm mistaken.  Seems that towards the end of my current level it's a lot better than at the start.</div><div> </div><div>Guess I'm asking if there's any benefit to cloth or leather armors over the chain.  I just upped my Mitigation with some new armor, and my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] Avoidance hit 30.4%.  It used to be 46% with all the Agility buffs I've been hoarding, so what's up?</div>

[Dakkon_10]

<div></div>yes heavier armors will bring down your avoidance. But imo it is better to have heavier armor for the mitigation. No you are going to get hit no matter what your avoidance is so it is best to have protection and stay alive.

[the flu]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>FalconWyvernspur wrote:<div>Sorry if this's a lame question, but does heavier armor types lower my Avoidance percent?  It seems to fluctuate based on level as is, unless I'm mistaken.  Seems that towards the end of my current level it's a lot better than at the start.<hr width="100%" size="2"></div></blockquote><div>Avoidence is based on many things. Agilty comes in to play, as do certain skills- parry and defense to be specific. As these raise, your avoidence will go up. Armor class also comes into play, as the previous poster stated above. Sheild vs dual weild will also affect it.</div><blockquote><div></div><div><hr width="100%" size="2"><hr width="100%" size="2"> </div><div>Guess I'm asking if there's any benefit to cloth or leather armors over the chain.  I just upped my Mitigation with some new armor, and my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] Avoidance hit 30.4%.  It used to be 46% with all the Agility buffs I've been hoarding, so what's up?</div><hr></blockquote>Benifit is in the eye of the beholder. A higher avoidence means you will get hit less often. However, a lower mitigation means that when you do get hit, it will hurt more. I would definatly not use cloth for armor, especially if I am soloing or tanking. The exception being the golden effretti boots for power regen, and that would be dependent on the quality of the other armor I was wearing.Other stupid question to ask though is, are you comparing avoidence while in the defensive stance in both instances, defensive in one and offensive in the other, or both offensive. The difference you are showing sounds about right for comparing the two different stances.</span></div>

[FalconWyvernsp]

<div>Yup!  But you brought up a good point about the shield thing, I'm betting I was going by values off my old sword/shield setup.  I'll probly return to that, as two sabres right now isn't enough to justify my loss of defense.  The rare times that poison damage on the second sword kicks off just don't seem to outweigh the ability a shield gave me to drop lone blue Heroics with surety.</div>

[Luk]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>FalconWyvernspur wrote:<div> The rare times that poison damage on the second sword kicks off just don't seem to outweigh the ability a shield gave me to drop lone blue Heroics with surety.</div><hr></blockquote><p>poisons do not proc off second hand, that was changed a while back, LU#19 I think.</p><p> </p><p>Correction, LU#18</p><p><strong><font color="#ffcc00">*** Gameplay ***</font></strong>- Poisons and potions will no longer drop when you die.- Heroic Opportunities will now only appear for nearby members of your group.Group members who are not near each other can now initiate heroic opportunities with separate encounters.- Pets will hide when riding the griffon or transport carpets, instead of having to dismiss them.- Ungrouped players are now chosen first to be kicked out of an instance that has raid size limits.- Coercers can now duel with a charmed pet.<strong>- Poisons (as well as other applied effects that have a chance to proc on a successful attack) now only trigger upon successful attacks made with the weapon in the primary hand. Note: Weapons with an inherent damage proc (like all crafted imbued weapons) are unaffected and will continue to proc regardless of which hand they are equipped in.</strong>- NPC movement speeds have been increased proportionate to Live Update #17's player run speed increase.</p><p>Message Edited by Licit on <span class="date_text">03-11-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:22 PM</span></p>

[Mathe]

<div></div>The actual difference between the avoidance bonus for wearing leather or cloth armor is pretty minimal. It only amounts to a couple percent. What stance you use alone makes a far larger difference.

[Kio]

<div></div><div>"Benifit is in the eye of the beholder."</div><div> </div><div>Not to be a pest but, the benifits are pretty easily parseable.  One will have an advantage over the other and I would suspect(just a gut feeling given the way monk/bruisers are tanking right now) that avoidance is winning the battle.  As a Swash however I'm not sure you could get your avoidance high enough to overcome the benifits of the mitigation you can get through the use of nice chain.  Im at something like 2800+ mit with Cobalt at L54.  No clue what % avoidance is needed per mit to compensate but, Its a static number I'm sure it could be figured out if someone spent the time with a parser and had the right gear.</div><div> </div><div>~Kioti</div>

[Mathe]

<div></div><p>Parsing isn't going to be very effective. I've ended fights doing exactly the same thing with nearly no damage and then being at half health the next time against the same level and type of mob. No difference to my tactics, my buffs, or what I was fighting, just normal variance.</p><p>Also there is a huge difference between having 20-30% more avoidance and having 2% more avoidance at the expense of maybe 10% mitigation.</p>

[Twoboxer2]

<div></div><p>Mitigation always occurs, Avoidance is a dice roll. All else being equal, Mitigation > Avoidance.</p><p>With Mit, a fight with a mob you can handle is a win. With Avoid it's a crap shoot.</p>

[SageGaspar]

In all chain my defensive avoid is something around 50-60%, without a shield and no focus on AGI (I do have WIS3 AA, though). That's pretty damned close to capping, I'd imagine if I took a shield and went STA line with some more AGI I'd do even better. I've actually been thinking about doing that, but people just laugh when you suggest a swash might tank, despite the numbers <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Fouri]

<div></div><p>And if a sizable portion of your Avoidance is comprised of Blocking techniques (parry/riposte) vs just Base (a flat out miss) it would suggest that Avoidance becomes very powerful with En Guard.  Depending on your playstyle and chosen AA lines it may certainly outway Mitigation.  When you mouse over your Avoidance value it says what abilities comprise it.</p>

[tawek]

<div>One advantage of mitigation is it's still fully in effect when attacked from behind.  Part of avoidance (parry) definitely doesn't work if, say, you're trying to run away from a mob that's snared you.  Not sure about the rest of avoidance (anyone know?).</div><div> </div><div>On the subject of running away.  I've tended to avoid rare imbued leggings, because the damage proc puts you into combat, and kills your speed buffs.  Also, if I get aggro while dpsing, I want to deaggro as soon as I can, and dont want a damage shield adding to aggro.</div><div>I imagine tanking swashies would find rare imbued leggings useful.  But would non-tanking swashies who've gone for them recommend them?</div>

[A 12 Gauge 007]

As a DPS swash I go for the imbued leggings, One because as a tailor I make two, because its added dps and i like that. On the rare times that I am running if I cant evac or sprint away to save myself I deserve to die because I wasnt paying attention. Also I say avoidance all the way. I mean on the rare occasion I get aggro the added chance of not getting hit before I can lie low to save myself is worth the few percent less damage I would take with more mitigation.<div></div>

[Shadesl]

I've been playing with this a bit lately. My conclusion was the difference between chain & leather is so small I really don't think it matters much. I would go chain though if I grouped more, because people depend on you more then & chain is more of a consistant. I will say with chain the damage is much more spread out, leather it tends to come in bunches.<div></div>

[overfloat]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>FalconWyvernspur wrote:<div>It seems to fluctuate based on level as is, unless I'm mistaken.  Seems that towards the end of my current level it's a lot better than at the start.<hr></div></blockquote><p>This is also true and may account for some of the variance you're seeing.</p><p>The avoidance % figure is somewhat misleading, as it's based on your chance to avoid incoming attacks from a mob <em>of equal level</em> (you can mouseover to see this description).</p><p>However, the skills of the "virtual mob" used for comparison are set at one figure for an entire level -- they do not scale as <em>you</em> gain xp (and increase your defensive skills) <em>within</em> a level. This means that, by the end of your level, all your defensive skills are 5 points higher, whereas the virtual mob is still using the same skill level it was using for comparison right after you dinged.</p><p>So it's not a set figure, like mitigation; it's a comparative figure.</p><p>The level comparison also makes it pointless to compare avoidance between two characters of different levels. For example, if you were trying to figure out who would make a better tank: a scout at level 20.99 showing 50% avoidance; or a monk at level 21.01 showing only 40% avoidance? The scout would be the better bet? Not necessarily, because his avoidance % is compared to a level 20 mob, whereas the monk is going up against a level 21 mob but is working with probably the exact same defense/parry/riposte skill. If the scout was compared to a level 21 mob he may only show 25% avoidance.</p><p>So, the short answer... if you're weighing up the benefits of different armour, make sure you compare <u>current</u> avoidance only - not what you used to have a few days ago! The huge variance in avoidance % throughout a level means I pay very little attention to the % itself or how it compares to anybody else (because that's irrelevant). All you want to concern yourself with is which arrangement gives you the best avoidance <u>now</u>!</p><p> </p><p><font size="1">Edit: holy old thread bump, batman ... only just noticed that</font></p><p>Message Edited by overfloater on <span class="date_text">03-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:32 PM</span></p>