Hail of Steel

[Fennir]

That's the swashy equivalent to Stream of Arrows, right?I was just wondering if you guys have noticed the same bug as rangers are, where the shots often delay a lot longer than the 1.5s (for us), up to 3s or so.I know your delay is supposed to be 2s.  Have any of you noticed some of the shots firing late?<div></div>

[Keldo]

only if it is really laggy<div></div>

[Debunkt]

<div></div>It certainly behaves funky under lag, which has been much higher than normal since the expansion release. On some shots it seems like 3-5 seconds between, but then I'll see 2 nearly back to back. I *think* all the shots are going off though.

[Fennir]

Yea at first I thought it was solely due to lag, but I parsed a lag-free raid in Afaz a couple nights ago and confirmed that it is in fact bugged (stream).I just figured that if stream was bugged there was a good chance yours is too, but I could be wrong.<div></div>

[SageGaspar]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Fennir wrote:Yea at first I thought it was solely due to lag, but I parsed a lag-free raid in Afaz a couple nights ago and confirmed that it is in fact bugged (stream).I just figured that if stream was bugged there was a good chance yours is too, but I could be wrong.<div></div><hr></blockquote>I only got it post-KoS when it's been laggier (though not terribly), and I've noticed significant delays between when the timers go off, and then one or two back-to-back, and then another delay. So much so that I think I'm losing DPS by using it, which is sort of a shame, since I looked forward to it.</span></div>

[overfloat]

<div></div><p>It seems like it's now treated as a series of separate CAs rather than a single toggle stream.</p><p>That's to say... the "stream" is no longer conducted solely at the server end, as it was before the change. Instead each cast is treated as a separate CA, which requires the server and client to interact before and after every separate throw -- compare notes about when the previous cast was completed at the client end and when the actual damage was completed at the server end, etc.</p><p>Either that or it's just plain buggy timing. The timing does seem weird either way -- loooong delays followed by almost insta-casts, which is odd.</p>

[Fennir]

Well, according to the parses, we're definitely losing DPS over this.Dirges are also reporting problems with Cacaphony of Blades.Hopefully we can get this fixed, as these skills are crucial to maintaining our DPS role post 55, IMO.<div></div>

[overfloat]

<div></div><div></div><p>Cacophony of Blades works on a completely different mechanism (unless its effect has been drastically changed recently?) and its drop in DPS is associated with a completely different problem.</p><p>It's the same problem that affects our burst DPS buff, Inspired Daring -- both ID and CoB used to proc 100% off both hands, now they only proc 100% off one hand (meaning 50% reduction in DPS). This is a mechanics issue and not a bug, though, and it's unrelated to the HoS and SoA issue.</p><p> </p><p><font size="1">Edit: Friday, can't spell or type</font></p><p>Message Edited by overfloater on <span class="date_text">03-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:39 AM</span></p>

[Fennir]

that's what I thought, but I didn't spend too much time thinking about it, just reported what the dirge said in my other thread.  you're probably right about that.I think we're the only 2 classes that get anything like this skill (except for wizards I think, but thats probably a totally different mechanism as well).<div></div>

[Syrano]

<div></div><p>Hrmm, you're going to have to define "losing DPS".  Hail of Steel is always lower DPS than other forms of attack in our arsenal (excluding auto-attack).  It is a nice ranged compensator for when we can't be in there mixing it up, but generally this only applies to certain raid fights. </p><p>I've always noticed a serious "lag" to HoS when activated, it has a casting time, then the casting time of the "Aim Steel" or whatever it triggers.  The net result is, I need about 5 seconds before I start to see any returns on HoS.  Sometimes that's just not practical.</p><p>Hwoever once triggered I don't see any real issues beyond normal combat internet lag.  I still do roughly the same damage over time with HoS as I always have.  Keep very much in mind that what you see on your screen (casting bars, animations etc) is not always in sync with what's going on.  Even your parser and log data can lag a bit vs. what's happening on the server.  With the release of the expantion lag, and combat lag, have definately been a factor in a lot of KoS zones, even instances.</p><p>To prove or disprove this theory you'd need to have multiple parses against the same mob using just HoS before and after you think this issue started.  That could be very hard to do <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Debunkt]

<div></div><div>I was thinking about parsing it because the skill seemed to behave differently after the change were each throw has it's own cast, but do you really need to?</div><div> </div><div>The initial cast of HoS or SoA and each individual throw/bow shot always have the same cast time and the duration of the overall skill is always the same. If you're not getting X amount of shots in the duration then it is not working as intended. Or to put in it in a question, should'nt we <strong>always</strong> be getting X amount of shots before the duration is up? If not, why or what is preventing it?</div>

[overfloat]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Syrano wrote:<div></div><p>Hrmm, you're going to have to define "losing DPS".</p><hr></blockquote><p>I think "losing DPS" was comparing to its previous incarnation, where you toggled it on and nothing else happened at the client end -- no extra casts, no power cost, you just saw the throw animations but all the individual throws were made at regular intervals at the server end. Now that each throw seems to require client-side intervention, it's subject to the usual network lag issues that affect normal CAs -- lag = throwing less often = lower DPS than when everything was server-side.</p><p>But yeah, for swashbucklers it's very situational anyway because we'll always be up close and personal if given the option. Usually we're just glad to be doing <em>any</em> damage from range, so any slightly reduced DPS doesn't sting quite so much for us! It's pretty good maintained DPS but we can't use our debuffs or deaggro CAs at range, so it's not a primary art. On the other hand, I'm not sure how/when rangers usually choose to use SoA -- it seems they use it as a major DPS skill, so I can imagine lower DPS would be a little more painful.</p>

[Fennir]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Syrano wrote:<div></div>To prove or disprove this theory you'd need to have multiple parses against the same mob using just HoS before and after you think this issue started.  That could be very hard to do <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><hr></blockquote>I don't think parses could be so incorrect as to not identify a major disparity.  I have two here that prove it beyond all doubt, IMO:<b>This is stream after LU#20.  Notice that there is no 'lag catchup' (i.e. faster shots that would make up for the slow shots)  The shortest delay the entire time is 1.5s, but oftentimes 3 seconds are skipped before a shot.</b><img src="http://www.improvmasta.org/eq2/brokenstream.jpg"><b>This is stream pre-LU#20.  Notice that every shot is pretty much exactly 1.5s apart with absolutely no discrepancy.  The disparity is very clear when reviewing these two parses.</b><img src="http://www.improvmasta.org/eq2/pre20stream.jpg"></span></div>

[Scort]

Exactly what I am seeing. Totally lag effected and reduces our numbers.