View Full Version : Stamina-AA combos for light tank/solo/dps
tawek
03-01-2006, 09:20 AM
<div></div><div>There are a lot of threads about AA's in general, this is a thread about using Stamina in combination with other AA branches. As I am also interested in non-Stamina builds I may start a separate thread(s) about those, but be best if we can focus on Stamina based builds here.</div><div>What I've written here is based on what I've read. I'd be really interested on corrections and different thinking.</div><div> </div><div><strong><u>In brief</u>:</strong>I think I'd go for a Stamina-Strength build, with all 5 Stamina levels, and Strength up to level 3.This gives good taunt abilities versus grouped mobs, the dps of a standard dual wielder, and more hit points. If you use sword/shield the better defense from strength-Blackguard's Defense will be active while you tank with your shield, and you have a critical debuff to reduce spike damage. It keeps your dps fairly high, gives you a shield, extra hit points and a defense buff; so it's also good for soloing.Your dps will be just as good with a shield, so you won't need to change when switching between tank and dps. One nice bonus with this build is you can carry on using your shield while dps'ing, and can concentrate on getting the best sword and shield available (plus a one handed piercer for slash resist mobs). Getting dual wield upgrades is strictly optional.</div><div><strong><u>Stamina in detail</u>:</strong>The stamina line is the obvious first choice to allow us to tank/off-tank fairly well. For best tanking against groups we need to get the Formation skill, and as we may sometimes rely on autoattack dps for aggro, I think getting Opportunistic Cover to level 8 is important.</div><div>1 - Pick Pocket4 - Mercenary's Stamina +30 sta4 - Swear 577-705 encounter taunt4 - Conditioning +4% hit points8 - Opportunistic Cover +50% dps means your dps should be the same as a dual wielder (* see Note at end of post)8 - Formation STA +51, Physical Mit +325, 50% chance to taunt for 244 when damaged=29 points</div><div> </div><div>The level 4 Swear is a nice opener to get all of a group of mobs hitting you. Once they are, Formation should help keep them aggroed on you. The only worry with this is, as Formation requires defensive stance which lowers your offensive skills, will that mean you can't hit higher level mobs, and so can't generate enough aggro on them? If so, maybe you should bring Swear up to 8. If you don't fight orange mobs, you may not need to do that, and can open up another line sooner.(Some swashies always stay in offensive stance even when tanking, and would never use Formation even though it offers some nice group-taunting options. I've assumed Formation is a requirement, but if it isn't, then in the following four sections, there's a lot more room to boost our dps-utility when not tanking)</div><div> </div><div><strong><u>Stamina-strength build:</u></strong>The main reason for the Strength line is the BlackGuard's Defense +25 defense. I love defense buffs: great for soloing; when tanking, the less damage you take, the less you need to taunt group mobs off the healer; and when dps'ing, if you get aggro, you can take more hits, use up less healer power, generate less healer aggro. The +20 strength is a small bonus to dps, and the +4.2% crit debuff should reduce spike mob damage.</div><div>4 - BlackGuard's Strength +20 str4 - Torporous Strike 213-356 dmg +4.2% crit debuff8 - BlackGuard's Defense +25 defense==16</div><div> </div><div>(That should leave 5 free which can be used for added taunt or hit points to improve tanking, though if tanking is already good enough, I think I'd improve Torporous Strike. But let's be honest, once you get into the upper 60's, there's a good chance your playstyle will change, and you'll want to respec the AA's anyway)</div><div> </div><div><strong><u>Stamina-wisdom build</u>:</strong>I don't think I'd go for wisdom. You need an empty free hand, so can't also use the stamina branch which requires a shield. That means you won't be making much use of the defensive skill Freehand Reversal. Level 8 in Unencumberence means your autoattack when dps'ing will be +16% higher than when tanking, but that's at a high price for the cost in AA points.In my opinion, what might make the wisdom line viable is Unencumberence-8 and Coule (Slashing, Piercing, Ranged +14.9), for maximum dps. Unfortunately, to get that in a Stamina-Wisdom build, you have to lose Formation, which significantly reduces your ability to tank groups. You could take 7 points from stamina-Opportunistic Cover and wisdom-Unencumberence, but I don't think having Coule while in dps-mode would compensate you for losing 15-20% of dps buffs in both tank and dps mode. I understand Coule now boosts your defense skills, but as it won't be active when you have a shield, that's of little use.</div><div> </div><div>If I did go for Wisdom-Stamina, I think I'd go for the following to replace the Strength options given above.</div><div>4 - Fencer's Wisdom +32 wisdom4 - Lunge Reversal 249-416 melee dmg proc versus parries, ripostes, blocks (won't work with shield)4 - Freehand Reversal riposte/Parry 4.0% (won't work with shield)8 - Unencumberence 66%.double attack (won't work with shield)==20</div><div><strong><u>Stamina-agility build</u>:</strong>Stamina-Agility is interesting, though I prefer stamina-strength. I don't know enough about how Walk the Plank and Sailwind work to know for sure.Walk the Plank might help you use your positional attacks and so cause more aggro, but if you're tanking, and you turn the mob on the rest of the group, will it start hitting them (anyone know)? Even if not, it will confuse other scouts trying to use positional attacks, and may mean the rest of the group suffer riposte damage. Useful skill when soloing, though.Avast Ye is useful when dpsing, but not when tanking. Commandeer might be nice if it stacks with non-combat speed buffs, but I don't think I'll use it much when in combat.What makes this build viable is the level 5 ability, Sailwind. This could, in theory, mean you spam your skills faster, and generate up to 25% more initial hate in the first 10 seconds or so. That might make it worth losing half your dps bonus from Stamina-Opportunistic Cover, especially in fights where the mob dies before you run out of skills to spam, when you aren't always running low on power.This build has the benefit that, if you have a one-handed rapier, you can get the benefit of both stamina and agility skillsets at once.This is my second choice for a stamina-combo build. Agility seems to be more about dps, strength about defense and debuffing. I guess that makes stamina-strength the defensive tank option, and stamina-agility the offensive-tank option. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>(Reduce stamina-Opportunistic Cover to 4: +25% dps. So when dpsing, probably should switch to dual wield weapons for max dps)4 - Pirate's Agility AGI +20: a minor boost to power and avoidance4 - Walk the Plank 83-138 dmg. 30 sec recast. Causes the target to turn around for a 2.0 sec duration.4 - Commandeer Increases in-combat movement speed 5%. Can we use this to kite? I don't like kiting so doesn't interest me.4 - Avast Ye dmg proc buff. Must be Flanking or Behind. 8% Chance, 117-196 piercing dmg8 - Sailwind Reduces Recovery and Casting timers of all abilities by 25%. (0.5 -> 0.4)==24(-4)</div><div><strong><u>Stamina-Int build</u>:</strong>Stamina-Int seems the least useful option if you small-group-tank a fair bit. If it's to be used in combination with Stamina, you'll need a one-handed-dagger, which I believe are less common. These are fantastic skills for raiding (probably the best option), but apart from the extra intelligance, none of the skills are useful when tanking, and I wonder if you'll need them that much in small groups even when dpsing.</div><div>4: Thief's Intelligence INT +28 - increase poison damage4: Boot Dagger Positional attack places you into stealth. 30 sec recast. Rank4: 83-138 melee dmg, stealth. Rank8: 118-198 dmg.4: Thief's Prowess 2 hate positions reactive de-aggro chance 12% if Rogue takes damage.4: Evasiveness Decrease Hate gain of caster by 5%.8: Feign avoids indirect AoE's. 3 minute recast. 100% FD, duration 30 seconds.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div><strong><em>(Health warning: the above are based on reading about the skills not using them. If you know better, please put me right.)</em></strong></div><div> </div><div><em>* Note 1: overfloater 's analysis seems to show that dual wield weapons do 50% more damage than one-handed. I've based my thinking on this.(see </em><a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=33&message.id=8448&view=by_date_ascending&page=7"><em>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=33&message.id=8448&view=by_date_ascending&page=7</em></a><em>)</em></div><div><div><em>* Note 2: Wildfury77 asked a great question in </em><a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=33&message.id=9437"><em>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=33&message.id=9437</em></a><em>. I started a reply, but it grew into this massive post, and the question I answered became more specialised, hence a separate thread</em></div></div><p>Message Edited by tawek21 on <span class="date_text">02-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:28 PM</span></p>
Wildfury77
03-01-2006, 10:10 AM
Stamina/Strength seems logical - been talking to lots of ingame swashies and posted several times on this board.Option 1)Strength 4/4/8/4 Stamina 4/5/4/8/8 - for the critical bonus.Option 2)Strength 5/5/8 Stamina 5/5/5/8/8 - not sure about this - adept 1 vs app 4 any point?Option 3)Strength 4/4/8 Stamina 4/8/5/8/8 - Adept IV taunt/DPS/defenceOption 4)Strength 4/4/8/8 Stamina 4/8/5/8 - Going for passive bonuses, useful whatever stance........I think option 1 and 3 are best. Comment about app4 vs adept 1 appreciated though (option 2)AND is it really that bad to not take the final stamina skill??<font color="#ff0000"></font><b><font color="#ff0000">SHADOWSCREAM</font></b><div></div>
tawek
03-01-2006, 10:48 AM
<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><p>Wildfury77said:</p><p><font color="#00cc33">Stamina/Strength seems logical - been talking to lots of ingame swashies and posted several times on this board.Option 1)Strength 4/4/8/4 Stamina 4/5/4/8/8 - for the critical bonus.Option 2)Strength 5/5/8 Stamina 5/5/5/8/8 - not sure about this - adept 1 vs app 4 any point?Option 3)Strength 4/4/8 Stamina 4/8/5/8/8 - Adept IV taunt/DPS/defenceOption 4)Strength 4/4/8/8 Stamina 4/8/5/8 - Going for passive bonuses, useful whatever stance........I think option 1 and 3 are best. Comment about app4 vs adept 1 appreciated though (option 2)AND is it really that bad to not take the final stamina skill??</font></p><div>Regarding app4 versus adept 5, there's several ways of looking at it:</div><ul><li>Some skills, such as Blackguard's Luck increase a fixed amount for every point. 8 points gives you twice the effect of 4 points. If two skills are equally useful, it may be just as good to have 4 points in two, or 8 points in one.</li><li>Other skills give you a significant beneift at app 1, and a reduced benefit for every extra point you put in. With agility:Walk the Plank, 4 points gives 83-138 dmg, 2.0 sec dur; 8 points gives 118-198, 3.0 sec. For this, app1 may be quite enough to give you the "turn around" you need to do a flanking attack, and app8 a complete waste of points.</li><li>On the other hand ... if it's an active skill, to get its benefit you have to cast it. One rank 8 skill may be better than two rank 4 skills, if you never have time to cast that second rank 4 skill, ... though if you do have time to cast it, perhaps the two skills will bring more benefit than a single one maxed...</li><li>In addition ... some skills may be really important to a raid and/or group. 8 points in Torporous Strike, gives a 6.0% decrease in cases of critical damage, 4 points already gives you a 4.2% reduction. I dont know how that works in practice: if for example the base chance of a crit is 10%, does a 6% decrease reduce that to 4% or 9.4%?). If it's the bigger effect, maxing it may make you a very desirable member of a raid, in order to reduce spike damage. If you are in a raiding guild, you could even coordinate your AA's with the other scouts, so you specialise in maxing different AA debuffs.</li><li>The only confident opinion I have about your option 2, is I wouldn't spend any more than 4 points on the level 1 statistics, extra points in the skills for the higher levels seems much more valuable. As for the higher skills, if it's not vital enough to take it to 8, I'd delay taking it from 4 to 5, until we all have more experience with AA's.</li></ul><div> </div><div>In my build options, I've focussed on skills I think bring major benefit, and if the build leaves 4 or 5 points unused, I've not thought too much about them. We have enough cheapish respec options that we'll probably be respecing long before we get all 50 points to spend, and by the time I get to spend the spare points, I'll have a much better idea from experience where they should go. Besides, by the time I get more than 37 AA points, they may have done a revamp of all the AA skills anyway .. :smileywink:</div><div> </div><div>What worries me is the key skills that could make or break the build I am aiming at.</div><div> </div><div>If I go for stamina/strength, I think stamina 4 (+50% autoattack dps) and strength 3 (+25 defense) are of key importance. Whether Stamina 5 is important depends how essential tanking is to my playstyle. One nice thing about stamina/strength is I can work up to str <strong>4/4/8</strong> sta <strong>4/4/4/8 </strong>(total cost=37), and leave the other decisions to later.</div><div>If I then decide to max taunting, I'll keep str <strong>4/4/8,</strong> and build stamina right up to <strong>4/8/4/8/8</strong> (total cost=49)</div><div>If I am perfectly happy with just a 577-705 group taunt, and want to increase utility/dps, then keep sta <strong>4/4/4/8,</strong> and use the spare 13 points to boost my strength, and/or other branches: there are lots of options for that...</div><ul><li>str <strong>4/4/8/4/8</strong> would give me a 50% debuff on Recast Timers</li><li>str <strong>4/8/8/8</strong> maxes my crit debuff and increases my crit chance by 13.9%</li><li>I could increase my stamina skills: group taunt or hit points buff</li><li>if I am prepared to use hot keys to swap weapons in and out, I could get the agility level 2 skill: Walk the Plank to turn mobs around.</li><li>the intelligence level 2, 3 and 4 skills are also attractive, if I find myself joining groups/small raids where I need to deaggro a lot more. (Int <strong>4/4/4/1</strong>)</li></ul><p>But I won't worry about those choices until I have more than 37 AA points.</p><p>BTW Regarding the swashie AA's, I think they've done a pretty good job. Each of the branches has pros and cons, they just suit different playstyles. Unfortunately, I don't think this is true of a few of the other classes, such as chanters.</p><p>Message Edited by tawek21 on <span class="date_text">02-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:24 PM</span></p>
HalflingBo
03-01-2006, 01:36 PM
<div><font color="#ffffff">Hey, I was wondering what your opinions were of a shield build in pvp. Most of my pvp is a duo with a fury, so I thought that it seemed logical to go for a maximum hp/tanking build to keep my friend alive. I was wondering if it would be in my best interest to forego some of the strength tree in order to put more points into the additional hp from the stam tree since I will be primarily pvping. Also, do you guys think it would be better to do stamina/agility for pvp, or would stamina/strength be better?</font></div>
Carna
03-01-2006, 01:52 PM
<div></div><p>When looking at + to dps or haste it is important to realise this applise to autoattack... somebody correct me if I'm wrong... and that autoattack in most cases will be a distinct minority of your damage output.</p><p>Anybody running parses know the % of damage made up from autoattack?.... If it's say 20%, then a +25% dps increase is infact only a +5% dps increase overall.</p><p>If I'm misunderstanding something I welcome being corrected.</p>
HalflingBo
03-01-2006, 02:38 PM
<div></div><blockquote><hr>Carnagh wrote:<div></div><p>When looking at + to dps or haste it is important to realise this applise to autoattack... somebody correct me if I'm wrong... and that autoattack in most cases will be a distinct minority of your damage output.</p><p>Anybody running parses know the % of damage made up from autoattack?.... If it's say 20%, then a +25% dps increase is infact only a +5% dps increase overall.</p><p>If I'm misunderstanding something I welcome being corrected.</p><hr></blockquote>A majority of a swashbucklers dps will be from special attacks in most encounters, but in a very long fight you may run out of power moving more dps towards autoattack rather than special attacks. The talent is fairly useless even then because a swashbuckler wouldnt be tanking in a long fight and wouldnt need a shield, so the swashbuckler could be free to use two weapons as opposed to sword and board. Unless you have a nice one handed weapon, I think that that talent is fairly useless.
Wildfury77
03-01-2006, 04:41 PM
A good one hander + good shield with the */*/*/8 on the stamina will out autoattack duelwield. e.g dark sword of anuk. Also only primary weapon is poisoned. Personally i would use it with the nice protection of a fabled/legendary shield. Think both options are very viable........don't rule out sword+shield - every 60+ swashie i've seen on befallen uses this (maybe because of the sword above!!)<div></div>
tawek
03-02-2006, 03:03 AM
<div></div><div></div><div></div><div>Carnagh,</div><div>You're right, of course. Actually a very good point, as I think we scouts can often overrate the importance of autoattack dps.</div><div> </div><div>But then, if I've understood the AA options correctly, they shouldn't be overpowering, so a +5% overall dps increase is well worth a few AA points.</div><div>And even if your tanking damage output were unaffected by autoattack dps, it'd still be worth keeping it up while tanking:</div><ul><li>if tanking, but unable to use specials, you can still dps, and with a lot of luck may keep aggro as a result. This could be because you are power drained, or stifled.</li><li>if your auto-attack dps is just as good when using a shield, you can concnetrate on buying the very best sword and shield, rather than spreading your platinum to get the second best set of dual-wield/one-handed/shield.</li><li>if your auto-attack dps is just as good when using a shield, you can use the shield while in dps-mode, don't need to swap weapons when switching from dps to off-tank, and will have better defenses while in dps.</li><li>and if tanking in an experience group where you are the one always running low on power, you can stop spamming specials near the end of each fight, use auto-attack dps instead, so the group won't have to wait so long for the next pull</li></ul><p>That said. I'm not an experienced swashie-tank. So others will have more hands-on experience of how this works in practice.</p><p> </p><p>HalflingBove,</p><p>I'm not into PvP, so all I can do is guess. Mind you, at this early stage of AA's, I imagine everyone is guessing <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>The extra hit points of Stamina might be a decent option. But Wisdom has benefits too.</p><p><strong>Wisdom:</strong> the 8% riposte of Freehand Reversal may be as good as a shield for PvP when against another fast-hitting scout. The extra autoattack dps buffs could be useful when fighting chanters if they can power-drain you. Coule will help with both specials and autoattack. More wisdom helps resists a bit. Against that, we have the extra hit points from more stamina and Conditioning, and extra stats/hp/power from having an item in the shield slot. My guess is Wisdom has the edge for PvP versus casters, it's more even versus melees, but stamina probably has the edge.</p><p>Intelligence isn't up to much for PvP, again, the pre-eminent raiding branch. Seems to me, for PvP, the real choice is not Wisdom versus Stamina, but Strength versus Agility.</p><p><strong>Strength: </strong>+25 defense with Blackguard's Defense-8: nice against melee players. The increased chance of spike damage from Blackguard's Luck is nice in PvP, as surprise spike damage can cause panic. Conversely, the reduction in spike damage from the Torporous Strike debuff is nice. And increasing recast timers by 50% with the Traumatic Swipe debuff is nice if in a protracted fight where recast timers are important, as long as you can get a flank attack in.</p><p><strong>Agility: </strong>Walk the Plank could really confuse/panic a player. The increased movement speed of Commandeer could be absolutely vital to close with PvP casters. I don't think Avast Ye will be much use in PvP. Sailwind might make a big difference if it lets you spam all your specials 20% faster: it won't reduce recast timers, but by the time you're waiting for recast timers, there's a good chance you'll have won ... or be dead.</p><p>My guess is Strength is better against melees and Agility against casters, but overall, the increased movement speed of Agility makes it the better PvP option.</p><p>If you're on a PvP server, the ability to gain levels by tanking for your Fury friend will be very important, as good groups may be harder to find. So the Stamina-Agility combo could be your best bet.</p><p>But if you are looking for a build to maximise your PvP abilities, how about a Strength/Agility build? With a hot key to swap rapier and sword in your primary hand, Walk the Plank will make it very easy to get Traumatic Swipe off. And you could swap weapons depending on whether you were facing casters or melee, so use Strength against melees, and Agility against casters</p><p>Message Edited by tawek21 on <span class="date_text">03-01-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:03 PM</span></p>
Carna
03-02-2006, 07:34 AM
<div></div><p>You're absolutely right Tawek, +5% overall dps is a marked increase as it's the sum of all the small increases that spell the big increase. I <em>think</em>, and I really could be very wrong, that a 25% reduction in CA cast and recast timers is likely to yield more of a dps return as one can see it as +25% to CA damage over time.... in the lose guesstimate figure I mentioned above of 20/80 that would be an overall increase of <em>up to</em> 20% dps.... <strong>and</strong> more use of debuffs as a bonus.</p><p>I personally think recast timers are compelling. Everything else is style and flavour... although I think for Rogues the hate control AAs might be most generally useful for groups and raids.... again, just wild speculation.</p><p>These figures are really only useful as a talking point. Don't use them for real decision making.</p>
Wildfury77
03-02-2006, 07:37 AM
I've tanked a lot lately......a)Helping guildies with tier 5 heritage quests b)in clefts lvling....in fact when i went into defence stance i was picked as maintank over a monk on several times.....reason? 50%+ avoidance, higher mitigation, master 1 taunt and awesome damage for agro generation. No monk will hold agro on me if i go all out <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> However some will say how can i hit with the lower attack from that stance......keep swindlers luck up as much as possible. In fact i'm one of the few scouts i know that maximise HOs. Being a geek i know how to spin that wheel and also am good at barking orders at those that seem blind.......I'm taking the advice above and going str 4/4/8 sta 4/4/4/8 and making my mind up later about the rest.....<div></div>
tawek
03-02-2006, 10:53 AM
<div>Carnagh said: "I personally think recast timers are compelling."</div><div> </div><div>That's possible. If agility-Sailwind really does speed up our use of specials by 25%, that doesn't just mean we do better burst dps, it also means we have more time in autoattack.</div><div> </div><div>For the sake of simple maths, imagine if we normally take 20 seconds to spam all the skills we want to in a fight ... with agilty-Sailwind we'll only take 15 seconds, and have an extra 5 seconds in autoattack. With finger trouble and network delays slowing down our skill-spamming, I doubt we'll get the full 5 seconds ... but it'll still give a nice chunk of extra damage at no power cost.</div><div> </div><div>With agility-Sailwind, burst dps and sustained dps will be better than with a stamina-strength build, even with extra critcals, extra strength and an extra attack. If someone else is tanking, the extra procs from Avast Ye make agility-stamina dps even better. But this isn't surprising... the stength branch is more defensive than the agility branch. It gives you 25 defense and two debuffs. Until the community reports back on how effective the criticals debuff and recast debuff are, we won't really know how strength stacks up against agility.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>As I see it, the strength and agility branches are roughly equivalent. One gives you better debuffs/defense, the other better dps. If either end up being markedly better than the other, SoE will adjust them.</div><div><div>(It's kinda ironic. The agility attribute gives avoidance, and so is usually thought of as defensive, and strength increases damage output, so is thought offensive ... but the scout AA branches for agility and strength are the other way round <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)</div><div> </div></div><div>I used to think of Wisdom and Stamina as similar offensive-defensive build options, but on reflection this may not be true. Both Freehand Reversal and Coule now offer defense skills benefits, which may be as good as that of a shield. So the balance of these two is more hit points+taunts, versus more dps/offensive skills. Again if one turns out better than the other, we should expect changes.</div><div> </div><div>Intelligence as a branch seems to stand on its own a bit. Its big benefit is for dpsers in raids or groups fighting tough heroics, who walk a fine line in avoiding aggro. That branch will help them avoid aggro, or lose it fast if they get it.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>It'll be interesting to see, in a few months, where hardcore raiders go. There's a case for int-deaggro, strength-debuffs, agility dps/burst debuffs, and wisdom skill boosts. My guess is they'll go for a combination of strength and intelligence, so they can spam debuffs with less risk of aggro, but we'll see.</div>
Iseabeil
03-02-2006, 08:15 PM
<div></div><blockquote><hr>Carnagh wrote:<p>I personally think recast timers are compelling. Everything else is style and flavour... although I think for Rogues the hate control AAs might be most generally useful for groups and raids.... again, just wild speculation.</p><p>These figures are really only useful as a talking point. Don't use them for real decision making.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Sailwind's description is a bit vague. It reduces casting and recovery times, not the recast times. This is a great ability for casting classes, I cant see why they would give it to us as a final AA skill tho. The longest casting CA I can remember off hand is the Swathe line wich is 2s and I think our recovery time is generally under 1s (server down so cant check), Ogaming list pretty much all at 0.5s tho. With most of our CAs bein on 0.5s as well, Sailwind wont have much effect on swashies, except possibly as peak DPS (have all CAs ready, turn on ID and unload everythin). As this would make DPS plummet very fast it'd be very situational.</p><p> </p>
Carna
03-02-2006, 08:38 PM
<div></div>I've just logged in to check and you're very right, it says recovery timers not recast timers. Along with cast timers, it basically increases our ability to spam. Not nearly as useful. But as noted it would increase our ability to front load damage, and the propertion of damage that comes from auto attack.
tawek
03-03-2006, 01:34 AM
<div></div><div></div><p>To completely contradict everything I've said above ... <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ... there is another light-tank build option.</p><p>This uses the trick of swapping your shield in, just for the AoE taunt. We would normally fight without the shield, using strength, and possibly wisdom, AA skills to keep your defense up. We'd quickly swap the shield in and out in order to fire off your AoE taunt. (to see how to swap weapons with hot keys, see (<a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=achievements&message.id=109&jump=true#M109">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=achievements&message.id=109&jump=true#M109</a>)</p><p>If we only use a shield while AoE taunting, and we can taunt well enough without Stamina level 5, we don't need to spend anything on Stamina beyond level 2 to tank. This frees up a lot of AA points to spend on other things.</p><p>Start with Sta 4/1 for a 371-453 AOE taunt (you can always add more points to taunt later if you need to).Then get strength up to 4/4/8. With +25 extra defense, if you dual wield, your defense may be as good as it was with a shield and no AA's.</p><p>[sta 4/1 - str 4/4/8] costs 22 points, so you have 28 points to spend on other options from here.</p><ul><li>You could go for a two-mode build. Sword in main hand for tanking, and spend the remaining on a dps mode: either dagger or rapier. Dagger to spam skills with better deaggro. Rapier to churn out even more dps - but at a risk of grabbing aggro.</li><li>Or, you could max out strength, for better debuffing/criticals</li></ul><p> </p><p>But if you go all-out for a defensive build without a shield, how about a <strong><u>full Wisdom tank build</u></strong>?</p><p>Get [sta 4/1 - str 4/4/8] then max non-shield defense with Wis 4/4/4/4/8. That gives you +12 to parry and defense (for a total of +37 defense), and Freehand Reversal=4% chance to riposte. The trouble is you'll need to spend 9 points before the wisdom branch gives you any defensive help, and until you've spent 16, your autoattack dps will suffer.</p><p><strong>Pros:</strong></p><ul><li>great defense skill buffs</li><li>+12 to offensive skills, which will remove most of the cost to offense if you go defensive stance</li><li>an extra 20 second recast 249-416 proc/attack (cast just before pulling)</li><li>you can spend all your cash (or quest/camp time) on a really good one-handed sword, buy a cheap shield, then don't bother with dual wields.</li><li>If you macro your AoE taunt to unequip the shield immediately afterwards, you have one less key press to worry about compared with the other combo options above</li></ul><p><strong>Cons:</strong></p><ul><li>empty shield slot costs power/hit points and attributes</li><li>stopping stamina at level 2 means no boost to hit points</li><li>wisdom line takes a long time to build before it gives decent rewards, so this may be something to respec into, rather than build up to</li><li>you lose out on better dps, deaggro, debuffs, or hit points from the other build options</li><li>and ... if you lotto a brilliant weapon which isn't a one-handed sword ... if your group/raid/guild run "Need Before Greed" you may have to give it up.</li></ul><p> </p><p>But then again ... swapping in a shield will mean our AoE taunt takes two key presses and a delay for the swap to take place, before the taunt fires off. Will that sometimes mean a dead healer and a wipe? And weapon swapping will be a distraction. Good tanking takes a lot of concentration, and fiddling with the right buttons may cause problems. </p><p>These worries may be enough reason to base your light tank build on stamina and a trusty sword and shield. Will they matter? I don't know ... but I suspect in the next couple of months the community we'll find out <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Message Edited by tawek21 on <span class="date_text">03-02-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:41 PM</span></p>
<div></div><p>2 questions:</p><p> </p><p>Am looking primarily for the STA/ str line to be a light tank,</p><p>What is a round shield? is there much variety out there?</p><p>IF i use a duel wield and a sheild will i be penalized over using a 1 handed and sheild.</p><p>that way i can just swap out my 2nd hand for more dps.</p><p>I defo thinking.</p><p>Sword, round shield, sta and then strenght, is it worth purchasing a 2nd sword or an entire DW set? hmm</p><p> </p>
Wildfury77
03-06-2006, 06:45 PM
In a word yes!1-handed weapon has much better damage than a "single" duel-wieldI use pristine imbued cobalt longsword with pristine imbued ironwood roundshield<i>I also </i>have two duel wield pristine imbued cobalt spatha.<div></div>
<div></div><p>ta!</p><p>1 1 hand sword and 1 round shield it is, and if money allows a pair of dw,</p><p>I expect i may be tank for our 4 man group most of the time, which is healer, warlock, ?? even at 25 (DW) with no aa's i could hold hate easily if i had room to aoe, and effectively if not. so with the ap's it should be qute good. we were munching threw heroics quite nicely.</p><p>Do our 'tanking' capabilites get better / worse overall as we progress up the tiers, i see a mez coming but what else?</p><p>Aslong as i don't get pinned - [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] u SH skellies, my dps doesn't seem to suffer to much.</p><p><strong>2 more questions</strong></p><p><strong>1 handed sword? slashing or piercing?</strong></p><p><strong>how many types of round shield are there? do they all have round shield in their title?</strong></p>
tawek
03-07-2006, 12:19 AM
<div>Hi Purgle,</div><div> </div><div>WildFury is right. I've recently been doing a lot of swapping between 1-handed+shield and dual wield. Sometimes I mess it up and have a dual-wield+shield combo. After struggling to kill the mob, and wondering why it took longer to take it down, I realised my mistake. You'd have thought that as most of our damage comes from skills and not autoattack, it wouldn't matter so much. But it seems to make a noticeable difference. However, I don't have a detailed parse to prove it.</div><div> </div><div><strong>Re: Round Shields</strong>. Not sure, but I think they do have round shield in their description. Besides, if you are looking for a shield with good protection, it won't be a buckler. All the best shield which are useable by scouts will be Round Shields.</div><div>( See <a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=items&message.id=53249&query.id=0#M53249">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=items&message.id=53249&query.id=0#M53249</a> </div><div> Except I understand that's changed a little, that Crusaders can use all shield types now)</div><div> </div><div><strong>Do our tanking abilities get better?</strong> (Do I take it you are level 20+? You call yourself 2x)</div><div>In my opinion, yes.</div><div>The mez can help a lot, but only if you have everyone assist someone else. It can be anyone who does damage, even a wizard. Everyone targets the mob through them, including you, except when you are mezzing one of the extras, or occasionally hitting other mobs to keep the hate on you and off the healer(s). You are still the tank, in that you are trying to keep the aggro on you, they are just someone who specifies a single target for the group. If you try to mez when people are targetting through you, as soon as you mez it, they'll wake it.</div><div><div>We get a buff which increases our dps, and also our hate generation. For swashies who don't want aggro, this is a mixed blessing, for a tanking swashie, it's all good <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div>We also have an attack which effectively puts a hate gain buff on the next target the mob hits. This is great when dpsing, if the next target is the tank. Also good if tanking, as the next target should be you. (It is bad news if you use it just as the healer grabs aggro ...)</div></div><div>What also helps is all our debuffs. As we go up in levels, the effect of our debuffs becomes greater and greater, and they can add a lot of hate.</div><div> </div><div><div>(PS I should come clean. After much indecision, while hoarding AA points, I've started down the Agility line. I just don't light-tank enough to justify the Stamina line. I started this thread because someone asked about Stamina, and answering it has been a great project to get me to rigorously think through my options. I'll keep reading and contributing to the thread, but it won't be with active experience using Stamina points in practice)</div></div>
HalflingBo
03-07-2006, 05:33 AM
<div>A few quick questions to anyone who knows.</div><div> </div><div>What does the protection mod on a shield do? Is it worth giving up your offhand weapon?</div><div> </div><div>How much health do we get per stamina point?</div><div> </div><div>thanks.</div>
<div></div><p>Protection on a shield adds to your avoidance, it does NOT add to your mitigation, how much is added for each point of protection, I don't know, 360 protection adds 2.7% avoidance in offensive stance, 2.5% with no stance and 2.1% with defensive stance (not sure who this works, I though defensive stance would of had more benefit from using a shield)</p><p>1 point of STA = 4.5 health</p><p> </p>
HalflingBo
03-07-2006, 06:17 AM
<blockquote><hr>Licit wrote:<div></div><p>Protection on a shield adds to your avoidance, it does NOT add to your mitigation, how much is added for each point of protection, I don't know, 360 protection adds 2.7% avoidance in offensive stance, 2.5% with no stance and 2.1% with defensive stance (not sure who this works, I though defensive stance would of had more benefit from using a shield)</p><p>1 point of STA = 4.5 health</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>Thank you.
tawek
03-13-2006, 09:57 PM
Licit wrote: "Protection on a shield adds to your avoidance, it does NOT add to your mitigation, how much is added for each point of protection, I don't know, 360 protection adds 2.7% avoidance in offensive stance, 2.5% with no stance and 2.1% with defensive stance (not sure who this works, I thought defensive stance would of had more benefit from using a shield"<div> </div><div><font color="#ccff00">Basically, if you already have a very high avoidence the % increase of a shield will be less. But if it's a 5% shield, it's still shielding you from 5%, just 5% of what gets through the other ways to avoid damage.</font></div><div> </div><div> </div><div>For those who like raw numbers, this way of calculating things seems to work out when I try it on my swashie in both offensive and defensive stances.:</div><div> </div><div>Take when I am in defensive with shield:The total avoidence is 45%Base: 31.1Block: 5.4Parry: 15.7Deflection: 0%(You might add this up up to 52.2 but it doesn't)</div><div>Start with 31.1</div><div>add 5.4% of 68.9 (the chance to hit with a 31.1% avoidence) which makes 3.7 .. which means a total of 34.8</div><div>... 15.7% of 65.2 = 10.2 .. for total of 45.0</div><div> </div><div>Take when I am in offensive with no shield:The total avoidence isBase: 21.9Block: 0.0Parry: 10.4Deflection: 0%(You might add this up up to 32.3 but it doesn't)</div><div>Start with 21.9<div>no shield so no block</div><div>add 10.4% of 78.1 (the chance to hit with a 21.9% avoidence) which makes 8.1 .. which means a total of 30.0</div><div> </div><div>Or to use a simplified example:</div><div> </div><div>If you have 50% avoidance, and then try to add a further 10% avoidance, the 10% isn't just added, otherwise, it would be too easy for wandering to get over 100% avoidance. Instead, they take 10% off the remaining chance to hit (in this case 50%), which will resuit in a combined avoidance of 55%.</div></div>
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