new AA and tanking conundrum

[Trollb]

<div>As starting my brigand with an eye toward being a fill in tank when required, ive found basically... your group will tend to look for a "real tank." And truthfully, there are enough good tank classes out there to easily come across one.</div><div> </div><div>So then the conundrum is choosing AA. I had origionally figured one handed wep/shield. Go for tanking AA. But this is obviously not our role, no matter how we equip, or spec, the idea is that we are dps.... and once there is an actual tank around (in any big guild it really isnt a question of if there is a tank around; there is)... then we are dps.</div><div> </div><div>Endgame raiding I have to suppose, definitely highlights this fact. Though in the odd moment saving the healer with ruse while the main tank focuses on tanking... we can fullfill the role of off tank; putting all our AA points into tanking may not be worth it as our role is dps.</div><div> </div><div>LOL, sorry if it seems like im talking in circles but its a confusing thing. And I dont want to push my character into being something that he will never be, especially at the expense of improving what it seems he already is; dps.</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Purg]

<div></div><p>i understand!</p><p>It comes down to how you play, who you play with, and your vision of your char.</p><p>one thing to bear in mind you can change you gear and you can respec, so you do have some choices/ versatily.</p><p>IF you are the kind who raids, or spends most of your time in a 'proper' group, then your tanking abilitys aas, would be wasted, stick with your convential role.</p><p>If you are unconvential, like i am and rarely form proper groups, then go for it and have fun, i often run mage only/ scout only, or mage scout groups, massive dps high risk, and then you'd be  decent sub tank.</p><p>Play as you want to play, but also understand the expectations of others of you <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</p><p>I like the potential we now have to diverify our characters.</p><p>My swashy is gonna be fairly defensive as i may well tank for our mini 4 man regular group, but i am still gona make sure my damage is there for when it needs to be. I perfer scouts to mages as they can take a few hits, and i m ay well take out a few ap points to help this.</p>

[Syrano]

<div></div><p>There are some things you have to keep in mind in EQ2.  First is that "Raiding" is the most pigeonholed example to use for class value.  On raids 12-24 people have a goal to accomplished and due to the large choice of options, will be pigeonholed into a best fit category.  On raids we are debuffers first, dps second.  We will not be asked to use the rest of our toolset, perhaps group stealth but generall any other option is not there.  Tanks will be selectively chosen based on resists/mitigation and taunt capability. Illusionist will be mana batteries and perhaps occaisional but rare CC.  The list goes on.  You are "typed" on a raid to a very narrow view.  It's a necessity.   It is *not* however the only gameplay choice.</p><p>Now as for a group, if you want to tank, you can.  But you will most likely never be allowed to tank in a pick-up group.  Pick-up groups strive for efficiency and low-risk gameplay, hence they will always look for a tank.    However, if you play with *friends* (real friends, not just guildmates forced to play together) who like fun and prefer to play then wait, you will probably get your chance to tank, and tank a lot.  I was *the* tank from 30th-45th for my little group of friends in a trio and we had a great time, at that time the STA line would've been my first choice hands down.</p><p>One thing to remember, even *if* you take the Stamina line you are not sacrificing your DPS or your debuff value add.  You are *still* a swashbuckler. None of these lines is *essential* to our value.  Some are nicer than others but all have limitations, hence a "bone stock" swashy is still a great edition to any group.  So you can take the STA line and use it for fun when you can and not have to worry about it ever elsewhere.</p><p>None of these lines are so overpowering that you *have* to have one. Perhaps that is their greatest weakness, in an attempt not to unbalance the game by mandating a need for AA lines, they ended up making AA's that just don't change the game much.  However the blessing there is that you are still valuable as a swashy regardless of the line you choose.</p><p> </p>

[Belizarius]

<div></div><p>Yeah, well.</p><p>In theory the STA line is a nice line to have as an option.  But in practise it will be useless except for soloers.</p><p>There are plenty of Fighters in game, and not many Rogues.  If there were lots of Rogues and not many Fighters, you <em>might</em> get to tank for a group.  You won't lose much auto-attack DPS, but you do lose those positional CAs.</p><p>I suppose you could make a case for the extra mitigation, against raid mobs with physical AEs that you can't or won't joust.</p><p>My wife's Swashy is usually grouped with my Illusionist, and with my stifles and stuns I think she could really be a viable tank with the STA line.  But, that would put one of our guild tanks out of a job...</p><p>When we're duoing I use my personae anyway so she can backstab.</p><p>Basically, it's a nice line for people who solo a lot, or who <em>really</em> want to equip a shield.</p>

[Luk]

<div></div>I am actually going STA then WIS, for leveling, once I hit 70, I will respect to something else, haven't decided yet, but the STA line for leveling is great, I even have a nice round shield with a proc that heals me on my melee attacks <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Purg]

<div></div><div>i'm going to duo or 4some a lot so will be light tank a lot i think, other groupies are likely to be healers/ mage/ scout types. plus with legendary chain and master 1 gibe and defensive stance i shouldn't be too bad......</div><div> </div><div>quick question round shield, how specific is that? what shields count</div>

[Luk]

<div></div><p>there are 4 basic types of shield in the game, from biggest to smallest</p><p>Tower</p><p>Kite</p><p>Round</p><p>Buckler</p><p>Plate tanks can use all, scouts round and buckler and priests buckler, mages can't use shields, if a shield is usable by scouts but not priests, chances are its a round shield</p>

[riblete]

Slight correction,Tower shields: Berserker, GuardianKite shields: Berserker, Guardian, Palladin, Shadow Knight

[Sabatini]

Well one nice thing to remember is that respeccing those points only costs 1 silver, the first time (with the price increasing each additional time) So if STA/tanking line is a great option until you get to raiding levels, and then its not working for you anymore, its easy as pie to swap those points to a combination you find more useful.Personally I think the STA line will even have its uses even in the late game. No matter how good the main tank is, there are just some times he drops and you're the next juciest target on the hate list. Being able to tank for a brief time can buy the healer time to get the Tank back up and regain control of the situation. And even if the tank doesnt go down, the extra hate generating abilites of the line gives you more to transfer to him to help do his job better.But if you're always grouping with tanks who never go down, and have backup tanks who manage to get aggro over you on a regular basis, then its easy to fork over that hard earned silver piece go more DPS with those points.

[Wildfury77]

I just can't agree with those who say stamina is for soloers only....Imagine this setupStrength 4/8/8/8 Stamina 4/4/4/8 (1point spare)It makes a swash awesomely versatile.1)Great DPS with increased critical and lovely debuff in strength line and the dps boost from the stamina line easily offsets using a shield.2)Good defence: Adept IV defence from strength line and the shield! sure u haven't got the final defensive boost from the last stamina skill but with this build u are hardly light on defence.3)The AoE taunt and the balanced defence would mean u can offtank in a group comfortably - no maintank is invincible.4)The adept IV strength line debuff also helps u tank in a way.....and helps keep damage spikes down in general.As for the spare point - maybe improve your taunt? or your HP boost?I see no need to MAX out a line.....the passive bonuses will be huge here. If we are talking about small group play where the swashie is off-tanking - positional attacks will be the same as before unless your MT goes down, and he's not going to with u in his group right?.......P.S. How do u respec?<div></div>

[Sabatini]

<p> </p><blockquote><hr>Wildfury77 wrote:P.S. How do u respec?<hr></blockquote><p>You can respec by talking to a very clearly marked person in the Mage Tower in South Qeynos. (teleporter on the right I think)</p>

[Riktiktiche]

<div></div><p>I can tell you this much i was chosen as a tank at lvl 53 over a 50 monk or 50 berserker only having app1 swear, but i had more life thta the berserker, and only about 100 life less than the monk and i could keep aggro better with higher avoidance.. and i recieved praise for my work =)</p><p>also i can tell you that a sta line swas i would describe as a multi purpose tank and would choose him for non raid loot run for track/smuggle/tanking ability can't tell you yet how much the +13% life wil make later on but should rival any tanks life =)</p><p>i personally will go sta all the way and put the remaining points in str i guess =)</p><p> </p><p>Staff</p>

[Luk]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>ribleteto wrote:Slight correction,Tower shields: Berserker, GuardianKite shields: Berserker, Guardian, Palladin, Shadow Knight<hr></blockquote>No, it has been changed, Paladins and Shadowknights can now use Tower shields.

[Trollb]

<div></div><div></div><p>Syrano "Now as for a group, if you want to tank, you can."</p><p>The thing is it would feel like [Removed for Content] against the wind to try to convince every healer in every new group i join that I am a viable tank, and justifying why i use a shield rather than dual wielding.</p><p>And when it comes down to it; tanks really arent that hard to find especially once guild situations arise. If I come out with the dps, and start showing the world that I can tank with the rest of them, I will also start wearing the "nerf me" coif as my trademark signature helm. It can be the new rogue hat.</p><p>My crossroads is now basically abandon the "tank idea" they planted in our heads. With all the taunts I have its fine, but no one wants to mess with it, so im cool with that. Just throwing intercepts on the tanks shows me that i dont have much staying power.</p><p>So back to the AA; from what i can see it makes no sense to go INT or  WIS on a pvp server. STR gimping casting times makes the priest slower to heal (or job being to [Removed for Content] the healer or instawin a caster lol)... while at the same time AGI gives us faster styles. Thats a pretty significant boost in what we can dish out.</p><p>Message Edited by Trollboy on <span class="date_text">03-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:05 AM</span></p>