Wisdom Line and Double Attacks?

[dagoo7]

<div>Looks like they changed some of the wisdom line before it went live.  Description of freehand reversal rank 1 now says 20% chance of double attack and unencumbrance rank 1 says something like 6.5%.  Now I'm more than a little confused how these two work together and what the max rate of double attack one can get.  Descriptions only seem to give info for Rank 1 so hard to see where each ability ends up.</div><div> </div><div>Am I correct in assuming that these stack?</div><div> </div><div>Does double attack % from freehand reversal go up with more ranks or does just the riposte % go up?</div><div> </div><div>What is now the max double attack % from 8 pts in unencumbrance?</div><div> </div><div>If one maxes both, what is the total % of double attack?</div>

[Severed Ha]

<div>We wont know that till someone has enough AA points to spend and find those numbers out.  Just before Servers came down I was on my way to AA lvl 6.  Had 3 pts to spend still.  Later tonight if no one knows then Ill post what Freehand Reversal does at Rank 1 then examine it which will show what Rank 2 will do.  I still plan on going pretty much full into Wisdome line myself though.</div>

[Sabatini]

Please post what you find out. I'm really wanting to go down the Wisdom path but I'd love to have some idea what to expect and plan for.

[Badfeeling]

<div>Have I missed something did we have to respec our toons?</div><div> </div><div>I dont seem to have access to the new lines ;(</div>

[Severed Ha]

<div>Well... Im up to AA lvl 5 right now.. So still have another 5 lvls to go before I get the Freehand Reversal... For some reason I though it was the 2cd in line but its the 3rd... my bad.  But I will post it as soon as I get there.</div>

[dagoo7]

<div></div><p>Anybody get enough points to figure this out yet, I'm still a long ways off.</p><p>As a side note, I was also wondering if anybody has figured out if the extra attacks count as mainhand for purposes of poison procs or not.  While I doubt this is the case, would certainly be great if they did.</p>

[Keyh]

I'll let you know if I get there first (I doubt it). So far I'm at Lunge Reversal rank 2:<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v381/HiryuSwift/lunge.jpg">

[SladeSwash]

Only Riposte goes up, and only to 8% if you get rank 8.and I do believe the 2 stack.  I haven't tested it yet though.  I'll fill you in later about it.<div></div>

[Syrano]

Quick note about Lunge Reversal -> It only procs once and goes away.  It's proc is defendable (can be blocked/parried/riposted) so this thing has very very limited use.  I was really hoping it was a garaunteed hit and not defendable but it's just an extra melee attack.This would be so much better as a passive (no duration, goes away after it procs), or a "no proc limit" for it's duration spell.  As it stands, it's really only useful solo'ing as one more 400-500 point attack every 20 some odd seconds.<div></div>

[Dave6225]

just my take on lunge reversal is breaking when any non auto attack damage is done to hte mob not after one proc.  really hopeing this is a bug since it makes it about useless atm.  even a tick of poision will break it<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Severed Ha]

<div></div><p>Aye.. The Lunge reversal isnt exactly what I had thought it would be...  May be keep it at 20 Seconds but then make it so that it has  a % chance to go off like En Guarde or something..  At least then it would be worth using..</p><p>Currently since that skill basically sucks.. lol...  I switched over to Agility Line till I have enough AA points to put into Wisdom to get the good stuff from there.</p>

[Awlis]

<div></div>well thats pretty poor disappearing after firing once <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I would prefer an always on spell, but with a dcreased chance to hit on each parry/riposte etc. Looks more and more like dropping an offhand gets no compensation.

[AegisCrown]

<div></div><p>i got AA point 14 last night and my first point of unecumberance... ill let you know what i find out</p><p>lunge reveral reg as always app IV with 381 str . 265-441 melee damage</p><p>free hand has a 20% double attack and 4% riposte/parry</p><p>unecumberance 6.5% per rank, seems like it will eb that as app II will be 13%</p><p>so unecumberance master would be 52%</p><p> </p><p>ill keewp updating</p>

[riblete]

<font size="4" color="#cc0000">Is Lunge Reversal the only one in the wisdom line to require the offhand to be empty?</font><font size="4"> </font> If so, then this would be a great fit with the Stamina line. Go ahead and use the shield, all you lose are the benefits from the four points in Lunge Reversal. Looking at the one-handers droping in KoS and the really really nice round shields, I am leaning toward going shield and one-hander anyway.On the other hand, I like the strength line... That would work well with wisdom too. Well strength, stamina, and agility all work well with wisdom. I am not sold on three of the 8-point abilities either, so would have extra points to add a few more lower-tier AAs. The T5 stamina one is nice if you like tanking (and are in groups that want you to). The T5 wisdom is a must have, IMHO.<div></div>

[Keyh]

<span><blockquote><hr>ribleteto wrote:<font size="4" color="#cc0000">Is Lunge Reversal the only one in the wisdom line to require the offhand to be empty?</font><font size="4"> </font> If so, then this would be a great fit with the Stamina line. Go ahead and use the shield, all you lose are the benefits from the four points in Lunge Reversal. Looking at the one-handers droping in KoS and the really really nice round shields, I am leaning toward going shield and one-hander anyway.On the other hand, I like the strength line... That would work well with wisdom too. Well strength, stamina, and agility all work well with wisdom. I am not sold on three of the 8-point abilities either, so would have extra points to add a few more lower-tier AAs. The T5 stamina one is nice if you like tanking (and are in groups that want you to). The T5 wisdom is a must have, IMHO.<div></div><hr>Nope, everything passed the +Wis in the Wis line requires offhand empty.</blockquote></span><div></div>

[dagoo7]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>AegisCrown wrote:<div></div><p>i got AA point 14 last night and my first point of unecumberance... ill let you know what i find out</p><p>lunge reveral reg as always app IV with 381 str . 265-441 melee damage</p><p>free hand has a 20% double attack and 4% riposte/parry</p><p>unecumberance 6.5% per rank, seems like it will eb that as app II will be 13%</p><p>so unecumberance master would be 52%</p><p> </p><p>ill keewp updating</p><hr></blockquote><div>So that would add up to a total of 72% chance of double attack if unencumbrance maxed and it does indeed stack with freehand reversal.  Would need to run the numbers (or even better have somebody who was actually good at statistics do so), but that would seem to equate to a significant, if not huge, increase in dps over dual wield.   Still would take a lot of points to get there. </div><div> </div><div>Any math types out there with the time and wherewithal to figure this out?</div>

[riblete]

Base rate for single hand = 1.00Base rate for dual handed = 1.50(assuming the double attack equal in damage to normal attacks)With double-attack = 1.7272% double attack = 14.66% increase in DPS over dual wieldAt rank 5, you would get 20% from free hand, and 32.5% from unencumberance.52.5% double attack = 1.66% increase in DPS over dual weildThat would take 18 AA points to get.1 - pickpocket4 - wisdom4 - lunge reversal4 - free hand5 - unencumberance<div></div>

[dagoo7]

<p>Thx much for the info.  Math makes me head hurt.</p><p>Message Edited by dagoo7 on <span class="date_text">02-27-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:38 PM</span></p>

[Severed Ha]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Keyh wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>ribleteto wrote:<font size="4" color="#cc0000">Is Lunge Reversal the only one in the wisdom line to require the offhand to be empty?</font><font size="4"> </font> If so, then this would be a great fit with the Stamina line. Go ahead and use the shield, all you lose are the benefits from the four points in Lunge Reversal. Looking at the one-handers droping in KoS and the really really nice round shields, I am leaning toward going shield and one-hander anyway.On the other hand, I like the strength line... That would work well with wisdom too. Well strength, stamina, and agility all work well with wisdom. I am not sold on three of the 8-point abilities either, so would have extra points to add a few more lower-tier AAs. The T5 stamina one is nice if you like tanking (and are in groups that want you to). The T5 wisdom is a must have, IMHO.<div></div><hr>Nope, everything passed the +Wis in the Wis line requires offhand empty.</blockquote></span><div></div><hr></blockquote><p> </p><p>2 of the Wisdom things dont require offhand empty from what I see..  Thats the + Wisdom and the last one.  At least according to the examine on it.. Its a passive ability.  Hehe.</p>

[Ri]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>ribleteto wrote:Base rate for single hand = 1.00Base rate for dual handed = 1.50(assuming the double attack equal in damage to normal attacks)With double-attack = 1.7272% double attack = 14.66% increase in DPS over dual wieldAt rank 5, you would get 20% from free hand, and 32.5% from unencumberance.52.5% double attack = 1.66% increase in DPS over dual weildThat would take 18 AA points to get.1 - pickpocket4 - wisdom4 - lunge reversal4 - free hand5 - unencumberance<div></div><hr></blockquote>I believe your base rates are off.  Dual handed is 2.00 (or 1.00 per weapon) and single handed is 1.50.Assuming what you assumed, a 72% double attack increases your damage to 2.58, giving a 29% boost above dual handing.The 20% free hand and 32.5% unencumberance boosts you to 2.2875 or 14.375% increase over dual weild.Should check my numbers though.</span></div>

[Keyh]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Severed Hand wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Keyh wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>ribleteto wrote:<font size="4" color="#cc0000">Is Lunge Reversal the only one in the wisdom line to require the offhand to be empty?</font><font size="4"> </font> If so, then this would be a great fit with the Stamina line. Go ahead and use the shield, all you lose are the benefits from the four points in Lunge Reversal. Looking at the one-handers droping in KoS and the really really nice round shields, I am leaning toward going shield and one-hander anyway.On the other hand, I like the strength line... That would work well with wisdom too. Well strength, stamina, and agility all work well with wisdom. I am not sold on three of the 8-point abilities either, so would have extra points to add a few more lower-tier AAs. The T5 stamina one is nice if you like tanking (and are in groups that want you to). The T5 wisdom is a must have, IMHO.<div></div><hr>Nope, everything passed the +Wis in the Wis line requires offhand empty.</blockquote></span><div></div><hr></blockquote><p> </p><p>2 of the Wisdom things dont require offhand empty from what I see..  Thats the + Wisdom and the last one.  At least according to the examine on it.. Its a passive ability.  Hehe.</p><hr></blockquote>Whoops, yeah that looks right. But it'd be silly to go all the way up for that and not use the other skills :p</span></div>

[riblete]

<hr width="100%" size="2">Rish Wrote:<blockquote><font color="#33cc33"><span>I believe your base rates are off.  Dual handed is 2.00 (or 1.00 per weapon) and single handed is 1.50.</span></font><font color="#33cc33"></font><font color="#33cc33"><span></span></font><font color="#33cc33"></font><font color="#33cc33"><span>Assuming what you assumed, a 72% double attack increases your damage to 2.58, giving a 29% boost above dual handing.</span></font><font color="#33cc33"></font><font color="#33cc33"><span></span></font><font color="#33cc33"></font><font color="#33cc33"><span>The 20% free hand and 32.5% unencumberance boosts you to 2.2875 or 14.375% increase over dual weild.</span></font><font color="#33cc33"></font><font color="#33cc33"><span></span></font><font color="#33cc33"></font><font color="#33cc33"><span>Should check my numbers though.</span></font><font color="#33cc33"></font><font color="#33cc33"><span></span></font></blockquote><span></span><hr width="100%" size="2">Pulled from a post in the AA sticky thread by overfoater:<blockquote>... That's what everyone's trying to figure out. <img width="16" border="0" src="../../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif" height="16">As an example of damage on DW/1H weapons with the same delay (pulling this from EQ2Players, so I can't see the damage ratings):<ul><li>Pristine Imbued Cobalt Short Spear (<strong>DW</strong>)   <em><font size="1">x2</font></em></li><li>Damage: 48-143  <font size="1"> <em>x2  =  96 - 286</em></font></li><li>Delay: 1.7</li></ul><p> </p><ul><li>Pristine Imbued Cobalt Long Sword (<strong>1H</strong>)</li><li>Damage: 64-191</li><li>Delay: 1.7</li></ul>The combined DW damage is almost exactly 1.5 times the 1H damage, so you'd need at least 50% double attack chance (Unencumberance) with your 1H weapon just to match the lost DPS....</blockquote><hr width="100%" size="2">I was using that assumption of a 50% increase in damage, based on overfloater's research. I set one-handed weapons as 1.0 units, thus dual-weild was 1.5 units. But as all things in SOE-land, I can go to a different source and see different numbers. I went to ogaming and looked up the picture-DPS numbers they have for pristine cobalt weapons. I do not know if these numbers are correct, but the pictures were correct at some point. If you have the in-game stats available, please post. I am at work, and can not see right now.DPS dual-weild cobalt - 31.0DPS one-handed cobalt - 49.7DPS two-handed cobalt - 62.1If these numbers are correct, then a pair of dual-weilds should be doing 62.0 compared to 49.7 for one-handed, a 25% increase. For some reason though, I remember cobalt dual-weilds as being 37.5 DPS... <font color="#ff3300">Is this right?</font> I know Sony adjusted dual weild weapon damage a few LU's ago due to <i>"dual weild weapons not doing as much DPS as intended since they are affected by CA's more so than single-hand or two-handed weapons"  </i>If I am correct that it is 37.5 DPS, that is a 51% increase over one-handeds. That matches overfloater's numbers pulled from eq2players.But what of sony's increase in dual-weild damage to "<i>compensate for CA's</i>"?  I think we need parse log data to get a better idea of the actual DPS loss from using a single-handed weapon versus a pair of dual weild weapons. The proc-rate on either choice will be identical (primary hand only). Weapon delay is also not a factor; as was described by the devs in another post <i>"procs are based on a delay of 3.0 reguardless of a weapons acctual delay". </i>So the only thing to consider is the Double Attack percentage versus the in-game DPS percentage for dual-weilding (while using CA's in a normal fashion).If anyone can do a test and post the in-game numbers, please do. I do not have a single-weild cobalt to compare to my dual-weild ones, and am too close to 60 to want to spend the cash.<div></div>

[Krakenap]

<div></div><p>Just something I wanted to point out.  You guys are looking heavily at Dual Wield versus 1H with Wisdom line.  Sounds great.</p><p>However what you are missing out on is the opportunity cost that is lost by going 1H with Wisdom.  Okay - so now after getting all these double attacks I am now EQUAL to dual wielding and I just spent something on the order of 12 AAs to become equal with what I already had in terms of damage. </p><p>Basically for 16 AA points I get equal damage to Dual wielding, I get a lunge reversal attack every 20 seconds that's really only good when tanking or soloing and 4% riposte / parry and plus some amount of wisdom (resists).</p><p>Instead with those same 16 AA points I could get +16 str, a crit debuff attack, +13 def and + 7% crit chanceor20 AGI, attack which turns mob around for 2 seconds, 5% increased movement, 8% proc when behind.</p><p>So when you look at what you need to spend on Wisdom to make it equivilent look at what you are giving up and NOT spending points on to get that wisdom line.  Once you spent your 16 AA points on wisdom you have a new comparison point.  I will be doing more damage with 16 more strength and 7% more criticals.  I will be doing more damage cause 8% of the time I hit for another 150 odd damage.</p><p>When it comes down to it, I suspect that the wisdom line will not stack up to the opportunity cost of what you give up to get it.</p>

[overfloat]

<div></div><p>Yeah, the WIS line is <u>definitely</u> not worth investing in until you have a bunch of points saved up (enough to get double attacks to 50%+ so it <em>matches</em> DW DPS). LR and the mediocre riposte rates alone don't get anywhere near making up for the lost offhand before then.</p><p>Notice another thing: In order to <em>break even</em> with DW DPS, you need to invest 4+4+4+4 = <strong>16 points</strong> in the WIS line (so that Freehand Reversal + Unencumberance = 52.5% double attack). That's basically 16 points just to get back where you started, with the limited utility of LR and 4% ripostes. After that you really <em>have</em> to take Coule (stupid not to), which is the only part of the standard line that actually improves your situation.  <font size="1">("standard line" meaning the minimum investment to max a branch: 4+4+4+4+8 = 24 points)</font></p><p>So now you've spent 24 points -- half the maximum you can ever spend -- and all you have to show for it is the one-off riposte from LR, 4% ripostes from FR, and Coule. That's all you've actually gained. Now, you could invest more points in Unencumberance... but then you're automatically borking your opportunity to max out any other branches.</p><p> </p><p>Unless you increase your point spending past the minimum "standard line" in WIS, you have almost nothing to show for it. In comparison, <strong>every</strong> other AA branch gives immediate rewards up front with every point spent, and will also give significant rewards even if you only spend minimal points to max a branch. Crazy. Add on top of that the relatively small number of fabled, rogue-usable 1H drops and it's looking very unappealing. If the figures change, I may respec later. As it is, my points are probably going into INT or STR for now.</p>

[Dakkon_10]

<div></div><div>I have spent 15 AA already so far into wisdom line 4-4-4-2 and right now my chance to double attack is 43%, riposte/parry is 4%, lunge reversal 400 dmg (still great vs monks) and i have got to say it was totally worth it! First of all... double attack does NOT proc off autoattack alone! It works much like Inspired daring, proccing off (from what I have seen) CA, auto-attack, and ranged attack (may be wrong on ranged) It does not proc off procs like inspired daring, however, inspired daring procs off of it, as does hurricane, poison etc...</div><div> </div><div>This wisdom line doubles your proc rate and 1 hand damage! And inspired daring is a killer... So what I plan to do is sacrifice FD for 4-4-6-8-8 wis and and prolly 4-4-4-8 agi. The extra back stab proc would up dps even further and who gives a flying **** about the rapier skill, can always carry a set of dual wielders with me =P</div><div> </div><div>So that would leave me with 6% parry/riposte, 72% double attack (godly) and with lunge reversal extra dps from mastering fencer and proc backstab from agi line.</div><div> </div><div>So IMO totally worth it.</div><p>Message Edited by Dakkon_1007 on <span class="date_text">02-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:18 AM</span></p>

[Ri]

<div></div><div>Ok, so I just went and pulled these actual numbers straight from the game (2/28/06).  The following are the damage ratings for rare weapons</div><div> </div><div>Cobalt:</div><div>1H - 49.7</div><div>DW - 37.2 (74.4)</div><div>2H - 62.1</div><div> </div><div>Ebon:</div><div>1H - 38.5</div><div>DW - 28.8 (57.6)</div><div>2H - ?? (none on broker, but calculated to be around 48.0)</div><div> </div><div>Fulginate:</div><div>1H - 27.5</div><div>DW - 20.6 (41.2)</div><div>2H - 34.3</div><div> </div><div>Puts DW at +50% the damage as a 1H, which match your calculations.  Not sure why I thought 1H were only 33% less damage than DW. Personally I don't see much of a reason at all to go the wisdom line except for style.  All in all, I think you'd get more milage damage wise if you went with a str (for crits) + the agi line.  On the other hand, I -am- a swashy. . .style is my middle name. . .</div><div> </div><div>According to the numbers I just pulled, you do 20% more damage using dual weilds as you do with just a single 2 hander.  That's probably a good increase from having CA interference.</div>

[SageGaspar]

You guys are missing what the second poster before me wrote. If he's right, and double hits proc off CAs, and procs proc off double hits, then, cha-ching, we're in the money. Nothing procs off your second hand right now, that's killing a lot of your DPS.Also, the top of the WIS line is really great, as some have already mentioned. If you're fighting oranges or high yellows it's a big boon, if you're fighting blues and such it means that you can go into defensive stance with no penalty.Finally, you can't compare 16 points in WIS with 16 points anywhere else, because that still leaves you with 34 left to spend. Everything above INT2 isn't so great (and those two aren't the best), the STA isn't great, AGI2 and 4 are okay but not stupendous, STR has a couple decent skills. Note that the attacks require certain weapons equipped as well, so two different lines won't mix except with WIS.I'm actually considering doing WIS 4-4-4-8-8 and STR 8-0-0-0-0 AGI 5-0-0-0-0 INT 8-0-0-0-0. Also makes it easier in KoS with all the items with gimped primary stats but great damage and bonuses to slashing and such.The debuffs I'm just not finding to be good enough, crit reduction is nice but not stupendous, same with casting timers, the one that puts you in stealth is okay, casting timer reduction is just unnecessary, changing direction actually sucks in a group, pirate stab seems sorta meh (though it's the other one I'd be most interested in). Increasing your own crit chance sounds neat, but I'd rather have steady damage than random spiking massive damage.

[overfloat]

<div></div><p>Thanks for the update, Dakkon. That kinda makes a huge difference. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Doubling up CAs is pretty powerful (double master's strike for 2 x 2k+? yum), especially if the extra strikes also allow for procs themselves. Wonder if all flurry hits have a chance to double up, or just the first one? <font size="1">(e.g. Fury of Blades = 6 strikes max or 4 strikes max?).</font> I can't help but wonder if it's intentional, though, particularly the extra procs... and how badly it'll get nerfed later on. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Obviously the real advantage of the WIS line comes from doubling up CAs, not doubling autoattack. This means you want to be able to use CAs as often as you <em>safely</em> can, so I still think the INT line makes a pretty good partner for WIS, hate reducers and all. Plus that FD is just sooo tempting... The only other skills that look particularly appealing are the extra crits from STR (but the last skill in the STR branch puts me off) and the stab proc from AGI (but that last ability is just terrible)... and I'm not sure I want to invest points in all the other skills just to get there.</p><p>If WIS really does turn out to be a winner after all, I'll probably go WIS 4-4-4-6-8 and INT 4-4-4-4-8, as the final ability in each line is a worthwhile reward . I won't be putting any points into WIS until I have at least enough to manage 4-4-4-4, though, so I think a respec will be in order... which leaves plenty of time for the Devs to finish playing with the AAs. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Dakkon_10]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div>You heard me wrong, the double attack doesn't make you do double your CA damage. When you use a CA it will only provide an extra autoattack proc (weapon damage) And as for flurry and uncanny they can only proc once as of LU20.<p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by Dakkon_1007 on <span class="date_text">02-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:38 PM</span></p>

[dagoo7]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>overfloater wrote:<div></div><p>Yeah, the WIS line is <u>definitely</u> not worth investing in until you have a bunch of points saved up (enough to get double attacks to 50%+ so it <em>matches</em> DW DPS). LR and the mediocre riposte rates alone don't get anywhere near making up for the lost offhand before then.</p><p>Notice another thing: In order to <em>break even</em> with DW DPS, you need to invest 4+4+4+4 = <strong>16 points</strong> in the WIS line (so that Freehand Reversal + Unencumberance = 52.5% double attack). That's basically 16 points just to get back where you started, with the limited utility of LR and 4% ripostes. After that you really <em>have</em> to take Coule (stupid not to), which is the only part of the standard line that actually improves your situation.  <font size="1">("standard line" meaning the minimum investment to max a branch: 4+4+4+4+8 = 24 points)</font></p><p>So now you've spent 24 points -- half the maximum you can ever spend -- and all you have to show for it is the one-off riposte from LR, 4% ripostes from FR, and Coule. That's all you've actually gained. Now, you could invest more points in Unencumberance... but then you're automatically borking your opportunity to max out any other branches.</p><p> </p><p>Unless you increase your point spending past the minimum "standard line" in WIS, you have almost nothing to show for it. In comparison, <strong>every</strong> other AA branch gives immediate rewards up front with every point spent, and will also give significant rewards even if you only spend minimal points to max a branch. Crazy. Add on top of that the relatively small number of fabled, rogue-usable 1H drops and it's looking very unappealing. If the figures change, I may respec later. As it is, my points are probably going into INT or STR for now.</p><hr></blockquote><p>I think all of us are very aware of the "opportunity cost" and thats the reason we are so [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] interested in the numberes here.  I too am going str/agi until i would have enough points to make it worthwhile.  That being said I tend towards a pure dps output perspective and I'm not that enthralled with much in the other lines other than the strength crit boost (and defense boost) and the agi positional proc. </p><p>If i could get a 20-25ish net dps boost on autoattack from sinking 24 points later on into wisdom and thats all i got from it (even without the benefit of lunge reversal and increased ripostes) I would do it in a heartbeat.  would still leave me with plenty of points to put  max crit and defense in strength or positional proc in agi.  I'm also not too impressed with many of the 8 pt abilities and leaving one or both of these out gives you a lot of points to play with.</p><p>For these reasons, wisdom still looks like one of the most interesting to me, but I want to know the full details before respeccing and sinking the points in later.</p><p>Message Edited by dagoo7 on <span class="date_text">02-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:44 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by dagoo7 on <span class="date_text">02-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:46 PM</span></p>

[overfloat]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Dakkon_1007 wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div>You heard me wrong, the double attack doesn't make you do double your CA damage. When you use a CA it will only provide an extra autoattack proc (weapon damage) And as for flurry and uncanny they can only proc once as of LU20.<hr></blockquote>Ehhh... ok, misread. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> In that case WIS is back to the bottom of the pile. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I wasn't sure if double attack followed regular proc rules or "ID proc rules" following LU#20 (ID still procs on all flurry strikes).

[KnightMax]

<div></div><p>A big question is will hurricane proc off of all the double attacks or just the first attack?  That would add something to the skill though could make our damage very very streaky.</p><p>I would love the see a comparison to the dps from wisdom and double attack compared to the 25% casting haste and 25% refresh haste.  I doubt it can even compare but I could be wrong.  Yes I know it can stack but not sure its worth it.</p>

[overfloat]

<div></div><div>Sailwind isn't a 20% decrease to the refresh (recast) rate, only to the recovery rate (the "cool down" time after a CA, during which you can't cast another). Overall Sailwind won't improve DPS whatsoever, only the speed at which you can chain CAs -- so it'll enhance spike DPS (a little) but not maintained DPS.</div>And it'll only improve your spike DPS if you have CAs queued up and ready to go. If, for example, you're raiding and pacing your CAs, Sailwind will do absolutely nothing... might come in handy for short joust windows but that's it.

[Krakenap]

<div></div><p>I just hit up with Double attack and Hurricane and booya..  massive dps. I fully believe that double attack and the wisdom is going to get nerfed (sadly) as it's going to make use T1 dps for a little while.</p><p>Take my advice.. Max your wisdom line and enjoy your T1 dps for a while.. then when we get nerfed go spend a silver and find somewhere else for those AAs..</p><p>Double attack 4tw!</p>