Ranger Forum

[Red Cobra]

<div>I was just reading the Ranger boards and there is some funny stuff. Lot's of whining and complaining about their decreased DPS.</div>

[Landaros]

They deserve it - they could have chosen to play a swashbuckler <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Tarya]

<div></div>I think we should show compassion and support for our fellow players instead of being jealous and gloating on their misfortune.Have we forgotten this fast the time Swashies were nerfed? We should know how this feels.Some of you might now say that nobody stood by us and defended our dps wishes. Is that the way you live your life then? In a vicious circle of revenge. Show that you can raise above that. If you can't and are jealous of the high dps Rangers there is a simple solution for that - roll a Ranger!My best friend in game is a Ranger and he is considering retiring him. I don't want him to go. He helped me and kept me alive in PoF when I was still bit too low for that location.Have you played a ranger? Their combat arts are slow compared to ours, they don't have buffs, hate transfers etc like we do. Their contribution to the group was high dps. Now they loose that. I totally understand their sorrow and disappointment.Let the Rangers have their dps - if for nothing else then at least for the pleasure of seeing the dropped jaws of wizards *giggles*<div></div><p>Message Edited by Tarya on <span class="date_text">02-17-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:43 PM</span></p>

[AratornCalahn]

<span><blockquote><hr>Tarya wrote:<div></div>I think we should show compassion and support for our fellow players instead of being jealous and gloating on their misfortune.Have we forgotten this fast the time Swashies were nerfed? We should know how this feels.Some of you might now say that nobody stood by us and defended our dps wishes. Is that the way you live your life then? In a vicious circle of revenge. Show that you can raise above that. If you can't and are jealous of the high dps Rangers there is a simple solution for that - roll a Ranger!My best friend in game is a Ranger and he is considering retiring him. I don't want him to go. He helped me and kept me alive in PoF when I was still bit too low for that location.Have you played a ranger? Their combat arts are slow compared to ours, they don't have buffs, hate transfers etc like we do. Their contribution to the group was high dps. Now they loose that. I totally understand their sorrow and disappointment.Let the Rangers have their dps - if for nothing else then at least for the pleasure of seeing the dropped jaws of wizards *giggles*<div></div><p>Message Edited by Tarya on <span class="date_text">02-17-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:43 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>No, if rangers get high DPS, then wizzards, warlocks and assassins should have equaly high DPS...now they are, but rangers went down instead of the rest up - this is according to devs balance and so far seems to be about right. Only summoners atsuposed to be a t2 DPS class (like we are) but have more DPS thna any t1 class..</span><div></div>

[AratornCalahn]

And if it makes you feel any better, I dont tihnk hurricane should have been nerfed (as bad maybe) and I think you should have had some kind of avoid AOE skill instead of HoS, but I like balance...<div></div>

[Andalla]

<div></div>Rangers had to be brought down; if instead other classes were brought up, mob hp inflation would be through the roof. face it, ranger dps was busted. they aren't screwed by any means; their dps is still top notch, it has merely been brought down to a level that is not completely obsene.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Andalla on <span class="date_text">02-17-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:37 PM</span></p>

[Drevva]

Actually,Rangers were brought below top notch, as they were very reliant on Procs/poison but hopefully will be adjusted to be inline with T1 by Tuesday <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  Soloing was hit very hard and hopefully that will be addressed as well.  It is a tough thing to balance, rangers have to do most the dmg upfront with a bow, as once the mob is in melee  range,  dps drops way off. One of my chars is a ranger (lvl 59) and I knew changes were bound to happen and needed to happen, just hope once the dust settles it is still a fun class to group and solo with.If not I always have my swashie, my dirge, my conjuror (though conjs I'm sure are do for some "adjusting" soon as well <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)Drevva

[Sadpandaa]

<div></div><div></div><div><font color="#ff0033"></font></div><p><font color="#ff0033">I doesn't matter wether what happened was the right thing or not.</font></p><p><font color="#ff0033">Laughing at other people because they're upset is rude, incompassionate, and immature. Be a better person than that.</font></p><p><font color="#ff0033">But I've already gone on this tangent in another post. I'm done. /sigh</font></p><p>Message Edited by Sadpandaa on <span class="date_text">02-17-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:54 PM</span></p>

[Iseabeil]

<div>Rangers needed to be adressed, my fianceé is a raiding ranger and he doesnt see this as a nerf but more of a balance issue. Then again, he made his ranger long before they were a dps class to count on. As long as the devs make sure to monitor the changes and adress any issues that might/will come, it'll be better for the game in long run. If rangers are tier2-3 as some claim, that needs to be adressed tho, along with all other issues that is still present.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Obadiah]

<div></div><p>Can I ask a stoopid noob question in the warm, comforting surroundings of my fellow Swashies? You can't ask these things of some people right now because they are a bit sensitive, but the more I read about the specifics of today's changes with regards to procs and such, the more I don't get how today's update is a <strong>Ranger</strong> hit/nerf.</p><p>We have Spurious Bravado - (well, False Bravado for my guy at the moment :smileyvery-happy<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> which adds a lot of damage and is very proc-dependant. We have one more CA than rangers do that deals multiple blows and therefore is affected by the change limiting the proc to the first strike. So ... if that's the case ... why are we still having fun and singing Kumbaya? This will reduce all Predator/Rogue DPS, no? Is it because their CAs are ranged, and therefore before this used the % chance off the long weapon delay on their bows, which would make them lots higher than our % chances? Is it because we're jus cooler people?</p><p>My main (alas, not the Swashie) quite frequently groups with a Ranger in our guild, and I can't wait to get his thoughts once he has a chance to try things out post-LU20. I have a hard time believing that the changes as defined are as specifically Ranger-debilitating as some would have us believe.</p><p><sigh> I'm sure the Rangers will find this post and come chew me up. :smileysad:</p><p>Oh, wait. They hit like girls now. Nevermind. :smileywink:</p>

[Andalla]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Obadiah wrote:<div></div><p>Can I ask a stoopid noob question in the warm, comforting surroundings of my fellow Swashies? You can't ask these things of some people right now because they are a bit sensitive, but the more I read about the specifics of today's changes with regards to procs and such, the more I don't get how today's update is a <strong>Ranger</strong> hit/nerf.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Basically, rangers were heavily reliant upon poisons as a large source of their dps. with a 7 second delay bow while using CAs, poison was going off a rediculous amount, since proc rate % is assuming you are using a 3.0 second delay weapon, and the % scales accordingly to the delay of weapon you are actually using. CAs were going off using the weapon's delay to determine proc rate, so in a ranger shot that may fire 3 arrows, they were getting over 50% proc rate on 300+ damage poisons for EACH ARROW. This is being changed so that proc rate is reliant upon the casting time of the CA, rather than the delay of the weapon. Since rangers had the highest delay weapons at 7.0 seconds, they are being hit the hardest by this change. .5 second cast for a CA is going to net a much lower proc rate off the given system than a 7.0 delay bow would.</p><p>Also, weapons that the rangers were wielding used to have their weapon procs go off from bow fire...once again, a 5% proc rate on a 7 delay weapon is about 12%...out of 3 arrows fired by a CA, that's a real good chance of proccing weapon procs (think PGT, power regen). That was recently fixed, much to the dismay of rangers. Finally, procs will only trigger off the first attack in a multi attack barrage- rangers were kings of multi attack barrages, and they are now losing almost all of their proc rate. Yes, this affects other classes too (bruisers and berserkers especially as well), but rangers are being hit by far the hardest by it.</p>

[Racmo]

<div>Ranger here,</div><div> </div><div> My hats off to those of you that are showing a little compassion whether you agreed with the nerf or not.  It's never nice to gloat.  I have no intention of doing so either when the nerf bat rolls around to other classes.</div><div> </div><div>Several nerfs came along and I'm sure you guys are aware of all of them.  But they affect all classes as one of the above posters said above, it's just our CAs do not do comparable dmg to other tier 1 classes, so the difference was being made up in poison procs.</div><div> </div><div>I personally think they went to far.  But the listed nerfs are</div><div> </div><div>1) no procs from melee weapons while ranged (I agree with this)</div><div>2) no procs from the 2nd, 3rd strike on a CA (I'm ok with this also)</div><div>3) Recalculating the proc percentage based on CA time vs weapon time (This is the one I think they went to far on)</div><div> </div><div>Anyway, that's just my opinion.  And I always feel kinship with my fellow scouts and wish you guys the best.</div><div> </div><div>Tobi</div>

[Zube]

<div>Another Ranger here,</div><div>Like the above poster said it is good to see some compassion in other boards. :smileyhappy:  I also believe that Rangers did need some balancing, even though it was great fun to wield a mighty bow.  It just seems that SOE went a little overboard on the extent of the changes.  Much like dumping a bucket of water on a match instead of simply blowing it out.</div><div> </div><div>I am curious to log on and just see how much the changes affect us.  *crosses his fingers* Here's to hoping that it is manageable then reported....</div><div> </div>

[Obadiah]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Andalla wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Obadiah wrote:<div></div><p>Can I ask a stoopid noob question in the warm, comforting surroundings of my fellow Swashies? You can't ask these things of some people right now because they are a bit sensitive, but the more I read about the specifics of today's changes with regards to procs and such, the more I don't get how today's update is a <strong>Ranger</strong> hit/nerf.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Basically, rangers were heavily reliant upon poisons as a large source of their dps. with a 7 second delay bow while using CAs, poison was going off a rediculous amount, since proc rate % is assuming you are using a 3.0 second delay weapon, and the % scales accordingly to the delay of weapon you are actually using. CAs were going off using the weapon's delay to determine proc rate, so in a ranger shot that may fire 3 arrows, they were getting over 50% proc rate on 300+ damage poisons for EACH ARROW. This is being changed so that proc rate is reliant upon the casting time of the CA, rather than the delay of the weapon. Since rangers had the highest delay weapons at 7.0 seconds, they are being hit the hardest by this change. .5 second cast for a CA is going to net a much lower proc rate off the given system than a 7.0 delay bow would.</p><p>Also, weapons that the rangers were wielding used to have their weapon procs go off from bow fire...once again, a 5% proc rate on a 7 delay weapon is about 12%...out of 3 arrows fired by a CA, that's a real good chance of proccing weapon procs (think PGT, power regen). That was recently fixed, much to the dismay of rangers. Finally, procs will only trigger off the first attack in a multi attack barrage- rangers were kings of multi attack barrages, and they are now losing almost all of their proc rate. Yes, this affects other classes too (bruisers and berserkers especially as well), but rangers are being hit by far the hardest by it.</p><hr></blockquote><p>OK, so it<strong> is</strong> because of the delay on their bows. So their autoattack proc-ing will remain entirely the same, and on a CA they will be going from a 58% rate (just looking at 25% poison procs) to 4.17% - assuming they are all 0.5 second arts. Meanwhile, assuming I was using a slow DW weapon I'd go from 17.5% to the same 4.17%. <font size="2"> <span class="921222121-21022006">EDIT: Our Ranged CA that uses a sheath was also higher, and it now goes from 23.3% to 4.17%. </span></font>So sure the <strong>impact</strong> to their percentage is larger - <strong>substantially</strong> larger - but it's a decent whack at the other Rogues and Predators too. A 93% reduction in proc percentage off CAs for them, a 76% (82% for ranged) reduction in proc <strong>percentage</strong> off CAs for us. This is why I'm so surprised to see other Scouts not complaining.</p><p>So instead of looking at how much Rangers - just Rangers - are coming down, I wonder how much they are coming down in relation to the rest of us.</p><p>But they weren't the king of multi-attack barrages as far as I can tell. That was part of my confusion. I count more multi-attack CAs for Swashies than Rangers. So we have more CAs that are weakened by the proc reduction - yet another potential reason for us to cry foul.</p><p>I'm not arguing one way or the other here. I'm not complaining about the changes because I haven't played yet. And I'm certainly not complaining about not seeing other scouts complaining. . . (interesting sentence there, eh?) It just surprised me that we're all cool with it. :smileyhappy:</p><p>EDIT: Added our ranged CA to the first paragraph. Forgot about that, which is odd, because I like it. :smileyhappy:</p><p>Message Edited by Obadiah on <span class="date_text">02-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:20 PM</span></p>

[SageGaspar]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Obadiah wrote:<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Andalla wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Obadiah wrote:<div></div><p>Can I ask a stoopid noob question in the warm, comforting surroundings of my fellow Swashies? You can't ask these things of some people right now because they are a bit sensitive, but the more I read about the specifics of today's changes with regards to procs and such, the more I don't get how today's update is a <strong>Ranger</strong> hit/nerf.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Basically, rangers were heavily reliant upon poisons as a large source of their dps. with a 7 second delay bow while using CAs, poison was going off a rediculous amount, since proc rate % is assuming you are using a 3.0 second delay weapon, and the % scales accordingly to the delay of weapon you are actually using. CAs were going off using the weapon's delay to determine proc rate, so in a ranger shot that may fire 3 arrows, they were getting over 50% proc rate on 300+ damage poisons for EACH ARROW. This is being changed so that proc rate is reliant upon the casting time of the CA, rather than the delay of the weapon. Since rangers had the highest delay weapons at 7.0 seconds, they are being hit the hardest by this change. .5 second cast for a CA is going to net a much lower proc rate off the given system than a 7.0 delay bow would.</p><p>Also, weapons that the rangers were wielding used to have their weapon procs go off from bow fire...once again, a 5% proc rate on a 7 delay weapon is about 12%...out of 3 arrows fired by a CA, that's a real good chance of proccing weapon procs (think PGT, power regen). That was recently fixed, much to the dismay of rangers. Finally, procs will only trigger off the first attack in a multi attack barrage- rangers were kings of multi attack barrages, and they are now losing almost all of their proc rate. Yes, this affects other classes too (bruisers and berserkers especially as well), but rangers are being hit by far the hardest by it.</p><hr></blockquote><p>OK, so it<strong> is</strong> because of the delay on their bows. So their autoattack proc-ing will remain entirely the same, and on a CA they will be going from a 58% rate (just looking at 25% poison procs) to 4.17% - assuming they are all 0.5 second arts. Meanwhile, assuming I was using a slow DW weapon I'd go from 17.5% to the same 4.17%. <font size="2"> <span class="921222121-21022006">EDIT: Our Ranged CA that uses a sheath was also higher, and it now goes from 23.3% to 4.17%. </span></font>So sure the <strong>impact</strong> to their percentage is larger - <strong>substantially</strong> larger - but it's a decent whack at the other Rogues and Predators too. A 93% reduction in proc percentage off CAs for them, a 76% (82% for ranged) reduction in proc <strong>percentage</strong> off CAs for us. This is why I'm so surprised to see other Scouts not complaining.</p><p>So instead of looking at how much Rangers - just Rangers - are coming down, I wonder how much they are coming down in relation to the rest of us.</p><p>But they weren't the king of multi-attack barrages as far as I can tell. That was part of my confusion. I count more multi-attack CAs for Swashies than Rangers. So we have more CAs that are weakened by the proc reduction - yet another potential reason for us to cry foul.</p><p>I'm not arguing one way or the other here. I'm not complaining about the changes because I haven't played yet. And I'm certainly not complaining about not seeing other scouts complaining. . . (interesting sentence there, eh?) It just surprised me that we're all cool with it. :smileyhappy:</p><p>EDIT: Added our ranged CA to the first paragraph. Forgot about that, which is odd, because I like it. :smileyhappy:</p><p>Message Edited by Obadiah on <span class="date_text">02-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:20 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I'm not complaining because basing CA proc chances on your weapon delay was always a poor decision. Just one reason (among others) why people have always opted towards slower weapons, now a wider variety of weapons is even more viable. If they need to bump up CA base damage to get DPS where they want it, so be it. I can deal with being nerfed for a while.In light of that change, the multi-procs aren't really a nerf as much as a logical consequence. When you think about it, you do a series of three quick attacks simultaneously, what is the delay on each? It's going to be the delay on the CA divided by three. Putting it all up front or giving a 1/3 chance on each hit is exactly the same over the longterm statistically.</span></div>

[Crychtonn]

<div></div><p>Ranger here and glad to see some intelligent discussions.  Your right the change to the multi proc doesn't hit rangers that hard as we only have two skills with multiple attacks.  I don't agree with the change they are making do to the fact that each attack has a chance to miss, be blocked or parried.  Unlike DoT's where an initial hit gaurantees the rest hit.  But it looks like this was the only way they could fix spells like prismatic havok from going off more then the entended amount of times.  Poor way of fixing it but I guess they couldn't find another solution.</p><p>As for the various nerfs to lower ranger dps I believe most rangers have been fine with them up to now.  This latest change though has gone overboard.  It is knocking rangers back to pre DoF where they had a hard time out damaging fighter classes.  And what makes it worse is it is going to kill ranger solo play.</p><p>Pre DoF rangers had crap dps but could fire most ranged CA's on the move.  DoF increased ranger damage alot but took away the ability to fire ranged CA's on the run.  With KoS rangers are going back to bad dps and won't be recovering the ability to use CA's on the run.  The majority of ranger CA's are bow attacks that require minimum range to use and some require stealth and position.  Rangers no longer have away to keep mobs at a distance to use these skills outside of opening attacks.  After an initial attack mobs will be right ontop of rangers and leave them at the mercy of four low damage melee skills and auto attack.  Imagine trying to solo only using you four lowest damage skills.</p><p>I don't and many other rangers don't either mind seeing our raid / group dps lowered to be more inline with other T1 classes.  Our problem is with the way SOE is trying to do it and the limited amount of testing they bothered doing.  Loosing my ability to solo effectively shouldn't be a price I have to pay to be put inline with other T1 classes in raids and groups.</p><p>Hope that makes sense to you all.</p><p> </p><p>Remember to duck low or the nerf bat will get ya.</p><p> </p>

[Merkad]

Swashbuckler here... just kidding, I don't like the frilly lace and feathers.. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Obadiah, the reason Rangers are.. were <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.. king of multi hit CAs is not due to the number of hits a CA can do, but rather our offensive proc. Quick Shot has a 30% chance to proc on a ranged attack, under the old rules, it procs just about every attack (not really, but close enough). What made this especially cool, was that Quick Shot was an actual arrow fired thus it could also proc poison/gleaming/weapon procs/spell procs too. If I fired Triple Arrow, it has the chance to hit with 6 arrows (3 for the CA, 3 for the proc)all with the chance to proc any proc I have (sans Quick Shot itself). If I used Precise Shot, 4 arrows. Any single bow CA is usually a 2 hit CA (and keep in mind Quick Shot is a good 450+ damage at M1 (the 59th version)).That is why Rangers will be hit hardest. I have not logged in yet, due to the expansion download, but I am sure it will be quite.. hmm.. deja vu ish. Hell, I am a Ranger from pre-Kunark as well as pre-DoF. I can take it. 'Sides, LU 25 or so might see signs of rebalance.but as you mentioned, I am quite curious to see how other classes will fare with these changes. But I think the Ranger class is drowning everything out at the moment.Merkades, 60th Ranger.Siege, Najena.

[Daxtyr_AnnonTuri]

for those of you supporting rangers thanks ......to those of you who say we needed balance ... you never played a ranger .....to those of you who are happy we got destroyed ..... your next!!!SoE loves to throw darts at the nerf board ... its why congo got a raise i mean Blackguard ...

[Belizarius]

<div></div><p>Most of our raid DPS relied on our Rangers, and these are mostly guys who chose their class for roleplaying reasons on day 1 of release too, before they were 'uber'.  So i'm sorry to see them brought down.</p><p>The needed to be adjusted but I worried it's gone overboard.  Rangers (Predators?) have the least utility of any scout class, they should have very decent DPS.  In a lot of situations, the difference between chain and cloth armour doesn't help much either.</p>

[VegasLife]

<div></div><p>Yeah there is no reason to gloat or dogpile.  A little class rivalry is good for pride reasons, but let's not kick another class when they might be down.</p><p> </p><p> </p>

[Trollb]

<div>How about not laughing so hard at the rangers, and taking a look at our own backdooring we took; cheap shot is 1 second now. Either hey monumentally, and intentially A-jammed us in a malicious way, or its a bug.</div><div> </div><div>Mkay, lets hope its a bug.</div>

[illum]

<div></div><p>just remembered seeing something similar to this a few weeks back on the swash boards...so i thought i'd bring this here :smileyvery-happy:</p><p><a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=39&message.id=23232">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=39&message.id=23232</a></p>