New Poison Proc Nerf, what does this mean for swashies?

[Redel]

<div><blockquote><hr size="2" width="100%">   </blockquote><blockquote><p><span class="headline">Beta Update Notes : February 14, 2006<i> 2/14/2005 8:15 pm</i></span>*** Combat ***- Procs will only occur on the first successful attack of a single combat art, not each attack.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Rangers are going crazy over on their board saying they have gone from tier 1 to tier 3 dps with this nerf.   Being new to game and a level 22 swashy, how bad will this effect us? </p></blockquote></div>

[AegisCrown]

<div></div><div></div><p>it means that procs wont go of on our 30sec reuse ranged attack and our 2 multi hit combat arts, 30 sec reuse double attack and 30 sec reuse triplle attack+mit debuff.  Not a huge nerf we will notice some small change to our dps but not like rangers...</p><p>i think the biggest change for swashbucklers will be using these multi attack CAs in connunction with inspired daring but well ill take it and keep going.</p><p>bye bye ranger dps</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by AegisCrown on <span class="date_text">02-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:00 AM</span></p>

[Redel]

<div>ok, thanks for the fast response.  </div><div> </div><div> </div><div>So with double attack we lose the 2nd proc and on triple attack we lose the 2nd and 3rd proc.  So total we lose 3 procs on our two melee Combat Arts.   </div><div> </div><div>I guess I can live with that.  :O</div>

[Carna]

<div></div>As it stands on test the proc rate from CA is also across the board lower also. One theory is than it's using the CA cast timer to normalise proc chane rather than weapon delay... this is only a theory I'm repeating though.

[Redel]

<div>This came parsed from a Ranger on the Ranger forums.   Seems to me Ca's are not procing poison much at all. </div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Culling the Weak23 shots4 poison procs5 quick shot procs2 gleaming strikesPrecise Shot10 shots2 poison procs4 quick shot procs0 gleamig strikesTripple Arrow26 shots1 poison proc!!2 quick shot procs1 gleaming strikesNow compair those to the regular ranged auto attack.Auto Attack39 shots27 poison procs32 quick shot procs7 gleaming strikes</div>

[Syrano]

<div></div><p>However the proc rates on the CA's make sense.  That's a %10-%25 proc rate, right in line with most poison descriptions (%15-20).  It's the proc rate on normal attacks that looks wierd, nearly %66 of all attacks proc'd.  Granted this is because the proc rate is based on a period of time, and bow's are so slow that they almost garauntee a proc over that period of time.</p><p>The question is, how much total damage from those 27 procs + normal attacks vs procs + CA's.  The CA's need to stay ahead in the damage curve, otherwise they become somewhat pointless over normal attacks.  I expect the system will see further tweaking before the devs have it where they want it.</p><p>Now what's this business with off-hand weapons no longer proc'ing?  Anybody see any info on this?  I keep hearing this from people, but I don't have facts.</p>

[Sadpandaa]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Syrano wrote:<p>Now what's this business with off-hand weapons no longer proc'ing?  Anybody see any info on this?  I keep hearing this from people, but I don't have facts.</p><hr></blockquote><p><font color="#ff0033">That happened a long time ago, baby. Lemme go see if I can find the patch notes for you.</font></p>

[Syrano]

<div></div>Hrmm, I *swear* I see two different proc's if I have two different proc'ing weapons on.  Someone is going to make me dust off my log parser over this business.  And you know how grumpy that makes me feel. I *hate* actually having to do analysis on the effectiveness of my... ahem... sword proc's.

[Sadpandaa]

<div></div><p><font color="#ff0033">As per LU #18:</font></p><p><font color="#ff0033">/quote</font></p><p><strong><font color="#ffcc00">*** Gameplay ***</font></strong>- Poisons and potions will no longer drop when you die.- Heroic Opportunities will now only appear for nearby members of your group.Group members who are not near each other can now initiate heroic opportunities with separate encounters.- Pets will hide when riding the griffon or transport carpets, instead of having to dismiss them.- Ungrouped players are now chosen first to be kicked out of an instance that has raid size limits.- Coercers can now duel with a charmed pet.- Poisons (as well as other applied effects that have a chance to proc on a successful attack) <font color="#ffff00">now only trigger upon successful attacks made with the weapon in the primary hand</font>. Note: Weapons with an inherent damage proc (like all crafted imbued weapons) are unaffected and will continue to proc regardless of which hand they are equipped in.- NPC movement speeds have been increased proportionate to Live Update #17's player run speed increase.</p><p><font color="#ff0033">/end quote</font></p><p><a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=stat&message.id=234">Here</a><font color="#ff0033"> is the linkie if you'd like to check it out yourself.</font></p>

[ilucife]

it will make a small difference to our multi attacks(brigs will get this too), but will have a larger effect on our HoS skill. so basically it will be a noticeable nerf to us, but a HUGE nerf to rangers, and a pretty moderate one to assains.looks like they are tired of rangers being the flavor of the month any want ot pass the torch to another class. maybe the rangers will finally see why we got so [Removed for Content] of with the poison changes in LU 18.if you try to be optimistic about it maybe they well let us proc off of secondary hands again. (but im not holding my breath)i<div></div>

[Kenazeer]

<div></div><div>Sings....."It's the end of the world as we know it, it's the end of the world as we know it, it's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine." Well...not really the end, nor do I feel fine. How the heck are we supposed to get poison procs on CAs given this.</div><div> </div><div><blockquote><hr>Blackguard wrote:As of Live Update #20, <strong>combat arts will base their chance to trigger a proc on the casting time of the art itself.</strong> Weapon delay will no longer affect any combat art's chance to trigger a proc.<div></div><hr></blockquote></div>

[Bishop]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Kenazeer wrote:<div></div><div>Sings....."It's the end of the world as we know it, it's the end of the world as we know it, it's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine." Well...not really the end, nor do I feel fine. How the heck are we supposed to get poison procs on CAs given this.</div><div> </div><div><blockquote><hr>Blackguard wrote:As of Live Update #20, <strong>combat arts will base their chance to trigger a proc on the casting time of the art itself.</strong> Weapon delay will no longer affect any combat art's chance to trigger a proc.<div></div><hr></blockquote></div><hr></blockquote><p>Ok, so the way I read that is...</p><p> </p><p>I hit CA button #1 - Chance to proc poison on initial touch of the button</p><p>I hit CA button #2 - Chance to proc poison on initial touch of the button.</p><p>etc..etc..through my 6-7 buttons I push during a fight.  Once all my CA timers are waiting for a reset, then I just have the generic chance of proc during normal attacks.</p><p> </p><p>So basicaly my triple strike CA will only proc when I first hit, no chance for procs on the secondary and tertiary hits, same with my double strike CA.  Can only proc on the initial strike, no the secondary strike.</p><p>Well, that's not that bad for us really.  Means I'm only missing out on the chance to proc on three occasions.  As long as we still have a chance to proc off non CA attacks...</p><p>/shrug</p><p>or am I reading it wrong?</p>

[Kenazeer]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>BishopNZ wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Kenazeer wrote:<div></div><div>Sings....."It's the end of the world as we know it, it's the end of the world as we know it, it's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine." Well...not really the end, nor do I feel fine. How the heck are we supposed to get poison procs on CAs given this.</div><div> </div><div><blockquote><hr>Blackguard wrote:As of Live Update #20, <strong>combat arts will base their chance to trigger a proc on the casting time of the art itself.</strong> Weapon delay will no longer affect any combat art's chance to trigger a proc.<div></div><hr></blockquote></div><hr></blockquote><p>Ok, so the way I read that is...</p><p> </p><p>I hit CA button #1 - Chance to proc poison on initial touch of the button</p><p>I hit CA button #2 - Chance to proc poison on initial touch of the button.</p><p>etc..etc..through my 6-7 buttons I push during a fight.  Once all my CA timers are waiting for a reset, then I just have the generic chance of proc during normal attacks.</p><p> </p><p>So basicaly my triple strike CA will only proc when I first hit, no chance for procs on the secondary and tertiary hits, same with my double strike CA.  Can only proc on the initial strike, no the secondary strike.</p><p>Well, that's not that bad for us really.  Means I'm only missing out on the chance to proc on three occasions.  As long as we still have a chance to proc off non CA attacks...</p><p>/shrug</p><p>or am I reading it wrong?</p><hr></blockquote>What you are missing is that the chance to proc on a CA is no longer based on weapon delay; it is now based on CA delay. Someone posted that it is still based on the generic default delay of 3....so your 25% poison when used with a 0.5 cast CA will have a (0.5/3)*25%=4.2% chance to proc on that CA. That pretty much sucks in my book.<p> </p><p>Message Edited by Kenazeer on <span class="date_text">02-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:55 AM</span></p>

[Carna]

<div></div><p>It also means you'll also lose out on the proc chance from a CA that's slower than your weapon.</p><p>Proc chance is normalised against a delay of 3.... what does this mean?</p><p>It means if you have a base 10% chance to proc, but your weapon delay is 6 your normalised chance to proc is 20%</p><p>It means that if your weapon delay is 1.5 you have a normalised chance to proc of 5%</p><p>Now, the chance to proc from a CA <em>was</em> normalised from your weapon delay, but as of lu20 is will be normalised from the CA cast time.... what does this mean?</p><p>It means if the cast time of a CA is 0.5sec the base chance of 10% is normalised to 1.6% where before with a weapon delay of 1.5 you'd of been getting a normalised chance of 5%</p><p>Now this will impact the Swashbuckler more than you might think... the cast time of Swashbuckler CAs is no different overall than say a Brigand (which I play). So far so good... However, Swashbuckler recast times are much shorter than say a Brigand (which I play) or an Assassin. Swashbucklers spam their CAs one hell of a lot... like a LOT, and they therefore make up a fair proportion of the number of attacks delivered overall. Far moreso than a Brigand... the chance of proccing on all those attacks has been significantly reduced. Swashies will see a larger <em>proportion</em> of their attacks nerfed than a Brigand or Assassin.... far more.</p><p>I've not enough experience with Assassins to know if I'm missing something obvious, but of all the Scouts I think this will impact Assassins the least.</p><p>This is all on top of the factor outlined above regarding multihit procs (or their new lack) for CAs.</p><p>Either way, it sucks.</p><p>I made a comment before in another thread about them nerfing and you having to buy back what you'd lost... AAs which increase your chance to crit are the means by which you'd buy back this lost dps. You're not going to gain anything from crit enhancing AAs that you don't have at this point in time. You'll be running to stand still... a treadmill if you like.</p>

[Kenazeer]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Carnagh wrote:<div></div><p>It also means you'll also lose out on the proc chance from a CA that's slower than your weapon.</p><p>Proc chance is normalised against a delay of 3.... what does this mean?</p><p>It means if you have a base 10% chance to proc, but your weapon delay is 6 your normalised chance to proc is 20%</p><p>It means that if your weapon delay is 1.5 you have a normalised chance to proc of 5%</p><p>Now, the chance to proc from a CA <em>was</em> normalised from your weapon delay, but as of lu20 is will be normalised from the CA cast time.... what does this mean?</p><p>It means if the cast time of a CA is 0.5sec the base chance of 10% is normalised to 1.6% where before with a weapon delay of 1.5 you'd of been getting a normalised chance of 5%</p><p>Now this will impact the Swashbuckler more than you might think... the cast time of Swashbuckler CAs is no different overall than say a Brigand (which I play). So far so good... However, Swashbuckler recast times are much shorter than say a Brigand (which I play) or an Assassin. Swashbucklers spam their CAs one hell of a lot... like a LOT, and they therefore make up a fair proportion of the number of attacks delivered overall. Far moreso than a Brigand... the chance of proccing on all those attacks has been significantly reduced. Swashies will see a larger <em>proportion</em> of their attacks nerfed than a Brigand or Assassin.... far more.</p><p>I've not enough experience with Assassins to know if I'm missing something obvious, but of all the Scouts I think this will impact Assassins the least.</p><p>This is all on top of the factor outlined above regarding multihit procs (or their new lack) for CAs.</p><p>Either way, it sucks.</p><p><font color="#ffff00">I made a comment before in another thread about them nerfing and you having to buy back what you'd lost... AAs which increase your chance to crit are the means by which you'd buy back this lost dps.</font> You're not going to gain anything from crit enhancing AAs that you don't have at this point in time. You'll be running to stand still... a treadmill if you like.</p><hr></blockquote>This was the way it was in EQ1. Whenever new AAs were released DPS mysteriously disappeared, only to be made up the new AAs. Sad to think that trend might continue here.

[Carna]

<div></div><p>Actually as I think on it some more... an area where it is likely to impact all Scouts is soloing.</p><p>Most scouts will have their own routine/sequence of arts to spam solo, which can be sumed up as "kill it quick! kill it now! kill is asasp!" with the intent of doing an explosive amount of damage and killing the mob before they get torn up too bad.... so soloing for most scouts have a very large proportion of the attacks being CA spam. In fact most of the attacks, with auto attack being almost incidenal... what this means is procs for Scouts solo has just been flushed down the toilet.</p><p>Longer fights in groups, autoattack actually comes into play so using dots would perhaps reduce this changes impact quite a bit.</p>

[ilucife]

another concern of mine is that they get the coding right and the "posion procs" dont carry over to everything else, ie lu18im going to be really upset if it effects agro procs, offensive stance etc.<div></div>

[Dallun]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kenazeer wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Carnagh wrote:<div></div><p>Now this will impact the Swashbuckler more than you might think... the cast time of Swashbuckler CAs is no different overall than say a Brigand (which I play). So far so good... However, Swashbuckler recast times are much shorter than say a Brigand (which I play) or an Assassin. Swashbucklers spam their CAs one hell of a lot... like a LOT, and they therefore make up a fair proportion of the number of attacks delivered overall. Far moreso than a Brigand... the chance of proccing on all those attacks has been significantly reduced. Swashies will see a larger <em>proportion</em> of their attacks nerfed than a Brigand or Assassin.... far more.</p><p>I've not enough experience with Assassins to know if I'm missing something obvious, but of all the Scouts I think this will impact Assassins the least.</p><p>This is all on top of the factor outlined above regarding multihit procs (or their new lack) for CAs.</p><p>Either way, it sucks.</p><p><font color="#ffff00">I made a comment before in another thread about them nerfing and you having to buy back what you'd lost... AAs which increase your chance to crit are the means by which you'd buy back this lost dps.</font> You're not going to gain anything from crit enhancing AAs that you don't have at this point in time. You'll be running to stand still... a treadmill if you like.</p><hr></blockquote></blockquote>To be honest, what worries me the most is that the Swashy Detaunt is gonna get killed... after all... it is a proc...<span>:smileyindifferent:</span>Dallun 60 WardenBathos 51 Swashbuckler</span><div></div>

[Debunkt]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>iluciferi wrote:another concern of mine is that they get the coding right and the "posion procs" dont carry over to everything else, ie lu18im going to be really upset if it effects agro procs, offensive stance etc.<div></div><hr></blockquote>That is a good point. Last time they said they were targeting poison procs but in the notes admitted it was pretty much anything that procs. From players posts it seems they are only doing poisons this time but who's to say it doesn't affect all procs? I betting it will.

[KdB]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Redelyn wrote:<div><blockquote><hr size="2" width="100%">   </blockquote><blockquote><p><span class="headline">Beta Update Notes : February 14, 2006<i> 2/14/2005 8:15 pm</i></span>*** Combat ***- Procs will only occur on the first successful attack of a single combat art, not each attack.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Rangers are going crazy over on their board saying they have gone from tier 1 to tier 3 dps with this nerf.   Being new to game and a level 22 swashy, how bad will this effect us? </p></blockquote></div><hr></blockquote>Rangers got a 1-2 punch, not only this but the change to how proc rates for combat arts are calculated. The tier 1 -> tier 3 comment is accurate, Ranger DPS was just cut in half. This can be calculated from the proc rates (if you know how the proc sequences work) and has been verified by people on beta.

[Duhulk]

<div>Fury of Blades still procs inspired daring on every hit, all is well =p</div>

[Dyd]

Does this only affect poison, or also our automatic deaggro?I've seen it happen several times on raids that the deaggro procs during HoS.If HoS has a chance to proc like it does now (since it's a new cast every 2 sec), I don't care to much.If it doesn't proc, it's could have a huge influence on what we can/cannot due.<div></div>

[ilucife]

exactly dyden, thats my chief concern<div></div>

[Mathe]

<div>I don't think Hail of Steel actually counts as a multi-hit weapon skill. It recasts iterations of Aim Steel (I think that is what it is called anyways), so I don't think it will be effected.</div><div> </div><div>The loss of 3 proc chances every 30 seconds isn't exactly class shattering. We have a hate transfer and two hate detaunts, one of which drops a threat position, and a proc to eliminate hate. I don't think in that regard we are in that sore of a shape.</div>

[overfloat]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div>Doom, doom, gloom, gloom, naysay, etc. etc.  <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   <em><font size="2">*snicker*</font></em></div><div> </div><div> </div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Syrano wrote:<div></div><p>Now what's this business with off-hand weapons no longer proc'ing?  Anybody see any info on this?  I keep hearing this from people, but I don't have facts.</p><hr><p></p></blockquote><p>As Leise mentioned, this happened a while ago but only affects applied procs (buffs, basically), not inherent weapon procs. No net loss, really: a poison with a 20% proc rate went from being split 10%-10% between the two hands to 20% on the mainhand only, the point being that DW now uses the same mechanic as 1H and 2H. (Remember that age-old argument that DWers lost out on more autoattacks, ergo proc chances, during CA cast times than than 1H/2H users? It solved that, except for actual weapon delay issues.) Unfortunately, they made this change in the same patch in which they reversed the innate DW proc rate boost that they'd implemented a few patches earlier (which was their first (borked) attempt to "fix" the DW vs. 1H/2H disparity) ... most people had got so used to this artificially boosted proc rate that they assumed the move to mainhand-only procs was to blame for the proc reduction.</p><p> </p><blockquote><hr>iluciferi wrote:it will make a small difference to our multi attacks(brigs will get this too), but will have a larger effect on our HoS skill.<hr></blockquote><p>I'm not sure it'll affect HoS at all. That recent patch changed it to a multi-cast CA; like Matheau, I would imagine each cast is allocated a separate proc chance based on its independent cast time. I need to jump on beta to check this when I can.</p><p> </p><blockquote><hr>looks like they are tired of rangers being the flavor of the month any want ot pass the torch to another class. maybe the rangers will finally see why we got so [Removed for Content] of with the poison changes in LU 18.<hr></blockquote><p>This is really a fix to a long-term borked game mechanic rather than a targeted nerf. It just happens that rangers benefitted most from the broken mechanic post LU#13 due to its nature and the fact that 80% of their CAs are ranged. Admittedly, if they weren't now getting insane DPS due to this mechanic, it would not doubt be a much lower priority on the fix list.</p><p> </p><blockquote><p></p><hr>Kenazeer wrote:<p></p><p>Someone posted that it is still based on the generic default delay of 3....so your 25% poison when used with a 0.2 cast CA will have a (0.2/3)*25%=1.7% chance to proc on that CA. That pretty much sucks in my book.</p><hr><p></p></blockquote><p>Just to clear up a little misinformation, as I've seen references to "0.1s cast" and "0.2s cast" swashy CAs in a few threads, they don't exist. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  The shortest cast time on our CAs is 0.5s, with the one exception of our taunt at 0.2s. Not that it's a huge difference but accuracy makes arguments a little stronger. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> </p><blockquote><hr>Carnagh wrote:<div></div><p>Now this will impact the Swashbuckler more than you might think... the cast time of Swashbuckler CAs is no different overall than say a Brigand (which I play). So far so good... However, Swashbuckler recast times are much shorter than say a Brigand (which I play) or an Assassin. Swashbucklers spam their CAs one hell of a lot... like a LOT, and they therefore make up a fair proportion of the number of attacks delivered overall. Far moreso than a Brigand... the chance of proccing on all those attacks has been significantly reduced. Swashies will see a larger <em>proportion</em> of their attacks nerfed than a Brigand or Assassin.... far more.</p><hr><p></p><p></p></blockquote><p>This is true enough but, again, in truth it's because swashbucklers benefitted unfairly before this change. Up until now, our CA proc rate (based on our 0.5s CA cast time) was higher than our autoattack proc rate -- using CAs more frequently <em>increased</em> the average proc rate above the default autoattack rate. Our fast-recharge CAs meant we had a bit of an advantage over brigands and assassins with similar CA cast times. Now the CA proc rate will match the default autoattack proc rate, normalised according to the same rules as autoattack, which should give a more consistent proc rate over time whether CAs are spammed or used sparingly.</p><p>Will we lose some DPS from it, moreso than brigands and assassins? Yes.</p><p>Will the system be more fairly balanced between the subclasses? Yes.</p><p>It always sucks to lose DPS but I'll get over it, considering it's a more sensible basis for procs. If the individual subclasses need further tweaking to compensate, so be it, but at least the underlying game mechanic will be more sound. </p><p> </p><blockquote><hr>Carnagh wrote:<div></div><p>In fact most of the attacks, with auto attack being almost incidenal... what this means is procs for Scouts solo has just been flushed down the toilet.</p><hr><p></p></blockquote><div>True but, once again, we have been benefitting from a poor game mechanic, boosting average proc rates over the course of a solo fight by spamming CAs. Now the overall CA proc rate will be consistent with autoattack proc rate. If our damage plummets so much from lost procs that our DPS is hopeless or we can't solo, individual buff proc rates can be increased to compensate. Overall, it gives the Devs much tighter control over average DPS levels for each subclass.</div><div> </div><blockquote><p></p><hr>Gokineq2 wrote:<p></p><p>That is a good point. Last time they said they were targeting poison procs but in the notes admitted it was pretty much anything that procs. From players posts it seems they are only doing poisons this time but who's to say it doesn't affect all procs? I betting it will.</p><hr><p></p></blockquote><p>As far as I'm aware, this is another minor fallacy. The Devs never said that the LU#18 changes were specifically targeting poisons, nor have they said that for LU#20. Again, poisons are just the most potent and visible procs, they represent such large proportion of overall archetype damage (across 4 subclasses) that they are always up for criticism by the playerbase.</p><p>The LU#18 changes, just like the upcoming LU#20 changes, targeted borked game mechanics that have <em>always</em> needed fixing; LU#18 as a wield type balance issue, LU#20 as a weapon delay/spell casting time/spell refresh rate balance issue. It just happens that poisons, constituting such a significant proportion of scout damage, have benefitted the most up until now from these borked mechanics, and it's the outcry that this has caused against poison users that has forced the priority of this fix up the list. Even if noone used poisons, even if poisons didn't exist in-game, the current proc mechanics would <u>still</u> need fixing because, ultimately, (and forgive my eloquent description)... they're dumb! They'd just have a lower priority, and we might see them fixed 25 months after launch instead of only 15. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>It's not just poisons. Look at ranger damage totals for an example <font size="1">(sorry to use rangers again, they just illustrate it best due to the exacerbated proc effect)</font>: 35% total damage from poison procs, 20% from Quick Shot procs (their offensive stance proc). A full fifth of their total damage from a <em>passive</em>, always-on buff? Crazy. When such a massive proportion of damage is entirely dependent on other factors -- weapon choice and wield choice<font size="1"> </font>-- it allows the Devs very little control over the situation. Nerfing Quick Shot by 75% effectiveness, so it  only gave 5% total damage using a longbow at range, would reduce it to utter uselessness in any other situation (e.g using a shortbow with half the attack speed). That leaves sensible rangers with only one fighting style (longbows and ranged attacks), and puts the Devs in the position of unfairly nerfing the utter crap out of any rangers who try to break the mould by using shortbows or melee.</p><p>So yeah, I'm fully expecting this to affect all procs. Group buffs, self buffs, weapon procs, toggle buffs, temporary duration buffs, etc. Yes, we'll probably see fewer procs from Avoid Censure. If it really causes us major aggro issues, we'll need to /feedback it to have its overall proc rate increased. But do I think we should try to stop SOE fixing stupid, unbalancing game mechanics just to prevent that? Nope.</p><p> </p><blockquote><p></p><hr>KdBoy wrote:<p></p><p>The tier 1 -> tier 3 comment is accurate, Ranger DPS was just cut in half. This can be calculated from the proc rates (if you know how the proc sequences work) and has been verified by people on beta.</p><hr><p></p><p></p></blockquote><p>If they've been cut to Tier 3 by the proc changes, then expect some upward tweaking of ranger CA damage to compensate. The Devs have stated that rangers belong in Tier 1. It may not happen immediately but it is their aim, they're not just nerfing rangers to Tier 3 and leaving them there to teach them a lesson.</p><p> </p><blockquote><hr>Duhulk wrote:<div>Fury of Blades still procs inspired daring on every hit, all is well =p<hr></div></blockquote><p>Now that is surprising, I fully expected ID to die on flurries. Good news, though, as it does state "adds damage to every melee attack", even if they used a proc as a shortcut around actually "adding damage" to the base damage.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Another obscenely long post, sorry. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> </p><p>Edit: speeling ... ; and, punctuation..</p><p>Message Edited by overfloater on <span class="date_text">02-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:28 AM</span></p>

[Syrano]

<div>Overfloater I bow to the eloquence of your post <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Couldn't have explained the situation better, or more logically.</div>

[Debunkt]

<div></div><p>This may be a lil nit picky but I'm callin it like I see it. When the update notes (LU1<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> state it this way...</p><p>"- Poisons (as well as other applied effects that have a chance to proc on a successful attack) now only trigger upon successful attacks made with the weapon in the primary hand. Note: Weapons with an inherent damage proc (like all crafted imbued weapons) are unaffected and will continue to proc regardless of which hand they are equipped in."</p><p>Poison is the first word, "applied effects" is an after thought in parens. Sure seems to me that poison was the focus. The reality is that the number of classes that have *some* sort of proc buff far outnumber the number of classes that use poisons. Wording it like that sure doesn't put the emphasis on the change affecting pretty much all classes, like it should. But you have a point overall - proc effects have been borked a long time and need a fix.</p>

[overfloat]

<div></div>True, they probably could have worded it little better. Like Blackguard could have used words other than "some people have been using this to their advantage" when talking about proc rates on long delay weapons, making it sound like all rangers are exploiters! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Bock]

<div>I might just be a little tired and out of it but with the fact that inspired darring isnt nerfed from this(again) i dont see the bad part...............i read this and see, Hey guess what guys your poison charges might last longer then 40 min now!</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Relic 60 Swash Kithicor</div>