Rogue AAs

[AegisCrown]

<div></div><div></div><p>Roughly up to date as of 2/26 i need to go through the new lines, if people get an ability at a rank 4 or 8 and its different pls mail it to me</p><p> </p><p>Brigand / Swashbuckler Achievements, Beta, 20060219Root Ability: Pick Pocket</p><hr><p><font color="#ff0000"><b>Strength Branch - Level 1</b><i>Blackguard's Strength</i> Increases the Blackguard's strength. Passive Spell.Rank4: STR +16. Rank5: STR +20. Rank8: STR +32.<b>Strength Branch - Level 2</b><i>Torporous Strike</i> A melee sword attack that reduces the target's chances of any critical damage or heals. 30sec duration, 30sec recast. Requires sword equipped in Primary.Rank4: 213-356 dmg. Decreases crit %'s by 4.2%. Rank5: 4.8% Rank8: 6.0%<b>Strength Branch - Level 3</b><i>Blackguard's Defense</i> Increases the Blackguard's defense skill. Passive Spell.Rank4: Defense +12.7 Rank5: +15.9 Rank8: 25<b>Strength Branch - Level 4</b><i>Blackguard's Luck</i> Increases the Blackguard's chances at critical melee damage. Passive Spell.Rank4: Increases melee Crit Chance by 7.0% Rank5: 8.7% Rank8: 13.9%<b>Strength Branch - level 5</b><i>Traumatic Swipe</i> Increases Recast Timers of target by 50%. 1 minute duration. 2 minute recast. Must be flanking or behind.Rank1: 358-597 dmg, Recast timers of target increase 50%.</font></p><hr><p><font color="#00cc00"><b>Agility Branch - Level 1</b><i>Pirate's Agility</i> Increases the Pirate's agility. Passive Spell.Rank4: AGI +20. Rank5: AGI +25. Rank8: AGI +40.<b>Agility Branch - Level 2</b><i>Walk the Plank</i> A melee rapier attack that causes the target to turn around for a short duration. 30 sec recast. Rapier required in Primary.Rank4: 83-138 dmg, 2.0 sec duration. Rank5: 95-158 dmg, 2.4 sec. Rank8: 118-198, 3.0 sec.<b>Agility Branch - Level 3</b><i>Commandeer</i> Increases in-combat movement speed. Passive Spell.Rank4: 5% Rank5: 6.2% Rank8: 10%<b>Agility Branch - Level 4</b><i>Avast Ye</i> Permanent dmg proc buff. Passive Spell. Must be Flanking or Behind.Rank4: 8% Chance to cast Pirate Stab, 117-196 piercing dmg. Rank5: 10% chance, same dmg. Rank8: 16% chance, same dmg.<b>Agility Branch - Level 5</b><i>Sailwind</i> Reduces Recovery and Casting timers of all abilities.Rank1: Reduces Recovery and Casting timers of caster by 25%. (0.5 -> 0.4)</font></p><hr><p><font color="#ffff00"><b>Stamina Branch - Level 1</b><i>Mercenary's Stamina</i> Increases the Mercenary's Stamina. Passive SpellRank4: STA +24. Rank5: STA +30. Rank8: STA +48.<b>Stamina Branch - Level 2</b><i>Swear</i> In-Encounter taunt. Roundshield Required. 20 sec recast.Rank4: 577-705 Threat. Rank5: 660-806. Rank8: 825-1008.<b>Stamina Branch - Level 3</b><i>Conditioning</i> Increases max hit points. Passive Spell.Rank4: 4.0% Rank5: 5.0% Rank8: 8.0%<b>Stamina Branch - Level 4</b><i>Opportunistic Cover</i> DPS Increase. Passive Spell. Roundshield required.Rank4: 25% Rank5: 31% Rank8: 50%<b>Stamina Branch - Level 5</b><i>Formation</i> Stamina, Mitigation, Reactive Aggro buff. Passive Spell. Requires Defensive Stance and Roundshield.Rank1: STA +51, Physical Mit +325, 50% chance to taunt for 244 when damaged.</font></p><hr><p><font color="#00ffff"><b>Wisdom Branch - Level 1</b><i>Fencer's Wisdom</i> Increases the Fencer's Wisdom. Passive Spell.Rank4: WIS +32. Rank5: WIS +40. Rank8: WIS +64.<b>Wisdom Branch - Level 2</b><i>Lunge Reversal</i> The next time the Fencer or an enemy attacking the Fencer uses a defensive maneuver to avoid an attack, the Fencer returns with a melee attack. 20 sec duration. 20 sec recast. Offhand EMPTY required.Rank4: If target parries, ripostes, blocks, etc, inflict 249-416 melee dmg. Rank5: 285-475 dmg. Rank8: 356-594 dmg.<b>Wisdom Branch - Level 3</b><i>Freehand Reversal</i> Increases riposte and Parry chance. Passive Spell. Offhand EMPTY required.Rank4: Caster will riposte 4.0% of frontal, and Parry for same % attacks from other quadrants. Rank5: 5.0% chance. Rank8: 8.0% chance.<b>Wisdom Branch - Level 4</b><i>Unencumberence</i> Double attack chance buff. Passive Spell. Offhand EMPTY required.Rank4: 42% of attacks will be double attacks. Rank5: 48%. Rank8: 66%.<b>Wisdom Branch - Level 4</b><i>Coule</i> Offensive Skill Buff. Passive Spell.Rank1: Slashing, Piercing, Ranged, Parry, and Defense +15.</font></p><hr><p><font color="#9933ff"><b>Intelligence Branch - Level 1</b><i>Thief's Intelligence</i> Increases the Thief's intelligence. Passive Spell.Rank4: INT +28. Rank5: INT +35. Rank8: INT +56.<b>Intelligence Branch - Level 2</b><i>Boot Dagger</i> A positional melee dagger attack that places the Thief into stealth if it strikes. 30 sec recast. Dagger in Primary required.Rank4: 83-138 melee dmg, stealth. Rank5: 95-158 dmg. Rank8: 118-198 dmg.<b>Intelligence Branch - Level 3</b><i>Thief's Prowess</i> 2 hate positions reactive de-aggro chance % if Rogue takes damage. Toggle-able ability.Rank4: 12% Rank5: 15% Rank8: 24%<b>Intelligence Branch - Level 4</b><i>Evasiveness</i> Decrease Hate gain of caster by %. Passive Spell.Rank4: 5.0% Rank5: 6.2% Rank8: 10.0%<b>Intelligence Branch - Level 5</b><i>Feign</i> Feigns Death, avoids indirect AoE's. 3 minute recast.Rank1: 100% FD, duration 30 seconds. Prevents AoE, except when direct.</font></p><p>Message Edited by AegisCrown on <span class="date_text">02-25-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:51 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by AegisCrown on <span class="date_text">03-01-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:21 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by AegisCrown on <span class="date_text">03-01-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:56 PM</span></p>

[m0ya]

<div>Awesome! Thx for the info!</div><div> </div><div>I'd go with... Str.. then Sta, then Int, Wis and finally Agi.</div><div> </div><div>And... you said at some place "adept 4" ..... does that mean there will be some adept 4...... Or meaby you wanted to say app4. (Check Int part)</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>-Moya-</div>

[AegisCrown]

<div></div><p>the adept 4 part is reference to how many points you sink into an ability</p><p>1 point = app1</p><p>4 points = app4</p><p>5 points = adp1</p><p>8 points = adp4</p><p> </p>

[tass]

<div></div>well we only get 50 points and it takes 8 points per step to advance right? so if thats so that u can basicly only excell fulling in 1 path, or have a broken up two paths. I think str might be the best for scouts though. tanks would focus on sta preists on wis, mages on int, and the only exception to this i could see would be brawlers who might go for srt also cause agi sucks for them now and it doesnt do us much good cause my swash cant dodge crap. so agi will be like the lost art lolSRY. mistake made it requires 4 points to advance so 2 paths can be filled.<div></div><p>Message Edited by holystones on <span class="date_text">02-08-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:05 PM</span></p>

[Luk]

<div></div><div></div><p>from what I have read on another thread (different class) you need to take your base ability (ie Pick Pockets) then you need to spend 4 points per level to unlock th next level. so, cutting the OP</p><p></p><hr><p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>STR.1 - Strength of the Blackguard "Increases strength of the caster" <font color="#ffff00">Must have 1 point in Pick Pocket to unlock (1 point per level, max 8 ranks)</font></strong>-Stat buff, I'll get the numbers later<b>STR.2 - Torporous Strike "A melee attack that increases the recovery time of the target" <font color="#ffff00">Must have 4 points in STR 1 to unlock (1 point per level, max 8 ranks)</font></b>App4 - 82 damage, cast 0.5, recovery 0.5, 45sec recast, 36 sec duration, 196 melee damage, Increases Spell Recovery Time of target by 100, if greatsword or sword in primary.<i>Needs to be Decreases instead of Increase. We can't use a greatsword, so that needs to be out. Should be changed to slasher of any kind, imo.</i><b>STR.3 - Self Preservation "Increases your defensive capabilities" <font color="#ffff00">Must have 4 points in STR 2 to unlock (1 point per level, max 8 ranks)</font></b>Adept1 - 0 cast, 0 recovery, 0 recast, increases Defense by 29. Up until cancelled.<i>You knew this numeric was going to be nerfed. <img border="0" src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif" height="16" width="16">But always on kicks harpy feathers.</i><b>STR.4 - Torpid Feedback "Enemies who hit you may have their casting times increased" <font color="#ffff00">Must have 4 points in STR 3 to unlock (1 point per level, max 8 ranks)</font></b>App4 - 0 cast, 0 recovery, 0 recast, Up until cancelled. On a successful attack, this spell has a 8% chance to cast Torpid Feedback on target of attack. Lasts for 36 seconds. Decreases Spell Casting time of target by 5-27.<i>Is 5-27 in seconds or a percent? The flavor text no longer matches the effect, which is WAY WAY better now. Should be Increases Spell Casting time of target, not Decreases</i><b>STR.5 - Traumatic Swipe "An attack that greatly increases the casting times of your enemy" <font color="#ffff00">Must have 4 points in STR 4 to unlock (8 point per level, max 1 rank)</font></b>App1 - 82 power, 0.5 cast, 0.5 recovery, 1 minute recast, 27 sec duration, 50m range. Inflicts 108-253 melee damage on target. Decreases Spell Reuse Time of target by 50.<i>Should say Increases, and is that a percent or seconds? Because 50 seconds is overpowered, and 50% is underpowered. </i></font></p><p></p><hr><p>this means that you can get 2 trees to max level with 2 points left over, given that AA's start at lvl 20 and you get 1 per level upto 70</p><p>Pick Pocket - 1 point</p><p>STR 1 - 4 point</p><p>STR 2 - 4 points</p><p>STR 3 - 4 points</p><p>STR 4 - 4 points</p><p>STR 5 - 8 points</p><p>this is 25 points to gain lvl STR 5, more points can be spent on the tree, but at the cost of possibly not gaining another lvl 5 ability.</p><p> </p><p>This is mainly speculation from what I have read, not sure if all classes are going to work on the same basis, but if they do, this seems right.</p><p> </p><p>*edit spelling</p><p>Message Edited by Licit on <span class="date_text">02-09-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:57 PM</span></p>

[overfloat]

<div></div><p>Copy/paste, not my own words: straight from the horse's mouth.</p><p><font size="1">(Er, apologies Rybu... not meaning to call you a horse...!)</font></p><p> </p><blockquote><p></p><hr><strong>An Introduction to the New Achievements</strong><p><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=178516" target="_blank"><span><font color="#ff0000"><strong>Rybu</strong></font></span></a><span>Game Designer</p></span><p><span></span></p><img border="0" src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/p.gif" alt="" height="1" width="1"><div></div><p>Hello Everyone!Now that most of the Achievements system has reached beta I'd like to give everyone a quick walkthrough of the system in order to help you all with your testing and with getting the most out of the system.The Achievements menu is located on the existing skills window. The first tab on that window should now show your class achievement tree, your current achievement level, your achievement experience bar, and how many points you have available.Your characters gain access to the system starting at adventure level 20 and may advance in the system at any time from then on.  You gain achievement experience by doing quests, acquiring rare items, exploring, defeating special enemies, and earning adventure levels. Each of these actions will only give this experience once, so if you have gone through one zone quite a few times, you may get more achievement experience for your time invested if you go to a zone you have not yet spent much time in. Most of these things will also only reward achievement experience if they are roughly the appropriate level for your character (Notable exceptions are things like exploration which may be done at any level).You are not required to do any one specific thing in order to advance through the system. For example, if you truly do not enjoy doing quests, you could advance to achievement level 50 without doing any quests. It may not be quite as easy, but it can be done. (We are still finishing up the achievement experience process, so not all of the content that we intend to award achievement experience for is currently doing so, but this should be remedied soon and in the meantime you will still be awarded a large portion of achievement experience for gaining adventure levels.)There are 50 levels of advancement in the system and you are awarded one achievement point for each achievement level. Each Achievement skill tree has a starter ability and 5 'branches' containing 5 achievement abilities each. The starter ability costs 1 point and may not be upgraded but unlocks the 5 branches beneath it. The first 4 abilities in each branch cost 1 point per rank and you will gain access to the next ability in the line once you have 4 points invested in the ability above it. These may all be raised to a total of 8 ranks. The final ability in each branch costs 8 points to purchase and may not be upgraded beyond the first rank. With a maximum of 50 points you should be able to spend 4 points in all of the standard abilities in any 2 separate branches and have 2 of the final abilities or you could specialize heavily in one branch and take all of those skills to 8 ranks (with a few points to spare).If you find that you do not like how you have spent your points you will also be able to get your points back and try again. The ability to do this is not currently available in the beta test, but will be soon.We are currently finishing up the last details on the system so you may notice (or you may have noticed already) that there are a few bugs with the system and the abilities.  We're actively working on fixing these so if you do run into any, please take a moment to either post them here in the Achievements forum or report them in game via the /bug command. There has already been a lot of good feedback and it is helping us immensely in getting the kinks worked out of the system. Thank you very much to everyone who has given us bugs and feedback already and please keep them coming.<span></span></p><div></div><p></p><div>---------------------------Ryan BurgessGame Designer, Everquest II</div><span><span class="date_text"><font color="#756b56">01-23-2006</font></span><span class="time_text">04:25 PM</span> </span> <hr></blockquote><p> </p>

[overfloat]

<div></div><div>Sneak peak of how the tree actually <em>looks</em>:</div><div> </div><div> </div><div><img src="http://www.calonderiel.com/EQ2/KoSBeta/Swashbuckler/SwashAAtree_020806.jpg"></div>

[Monr]

<div></div><div><font color="#00ffff"><strong>WIS.1 - Stylish Wit "Increases Wisdom of the caster"</strong>-Stat buff, I'll get the numbers later<b>WIS.2 - Cross "A melee attack that marks your opponent. Future attacks can briefly stifle any marked opponent"</b>Adept4 - 82 power, 0.5 sec cast, 0.5 sec recovery, recast 1 minute, 27 sec duration, 6 m range. Inflicts 227-341 melee damage on target. When target is damage with a melee weapon this spell has a 80% chance to cast Stifle on target's attacker. lasts for 16.8 seconds. If not Epic.<i>Haven't tested it yet, but VASTLY improved. Should be a crowd pleaser with the improvements.</i><b>WIS.3 - Freehand Reversal "You Riposte incoming attacks"</b>Adept4 - 0 cast, 0 recovery, 0 recast, 50m range, Up Until Cancelled. Caster will Riposte 8% of incoming frontal attacks, and parry 8% from other quadrants. 20% Haste. Parry skill increase of 46. Secondary Slot Empty.<i>Ok, you have my attention..</i><b>WIS.4 - Unencumbered Combat "You gain attack haste and a melee damage bonus"</b>Adept4 - 0 cast, 0 recovery, 0 recast, Up Until Cancelled. 16% DPS increase, 16% haste. Secondary Slot Empty.<i>And yes... these stack...</i><b>WIS.5 - Coule "Your melee attacks are much harder to block, parry or deflect"</b>App1 - 0 cast, 0 recovery, 0 recast, Up Until Cancelled. Increases Slashing, Piercing, and Ranged skills by 23. Secondary Slot Empty.<i>Ok, put all these WIS achievements together, and you may have something special!</i></font></div><div> </div><div>Ok. I was blown away with the wisdom tree when I saw it. Then i finally (GOD i am slow!) saw the "Secondary Slot Empty"</div><div>.......</div><div>I dont get it.... Other than the stife attack why would you advance down this tree? All of the increases to our offenses skills would be negated from using a 1hander instead of duel wielding. I would imagine this would beat out duelwields if you had it maxed, but it would be pretty marginal.</div><div>Not being negative. I truly just dont get the incentive for this tree at all.</div><p>Message Edited by Monroe on <span class="date_text">02-09-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:15 AM</span></p>

[Miguex]

clearly agi all the way, will have plenty of time to think about whats next while getting the goods the agi branch gives<div></div>

[m0ya]

<div></div><p>Hum.. I think I miss something... when you say :</p><p>Str 1</p><p>Str 2</p><p>Str 3</p><p>Str 4</p><p>Str 5</p><p>Does that mean that the last "stage" is Str 5? or every Str (Str 1, Str2, etc etc) have their own lvl? This is not clear... lol</p><p> </p><p>Check out bruiser forum about AA and you'll understand what I mean... lol</p>

[overfloat]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>m0ya wrote:<div></div>Does that mean that the last "stage" is Str 5?<hr></blockquote><p>Yes. Looking at the Achievement layout picture, you have:                            Pickpocket                                  |    ___________________ _________    /                |             |              |              <strong><font color="#ff0000">STR.1     </font><font color="#00cc00">AGI.1     </font><font color="#ffff00">STA.1    </font></strong> <font color="#00ffff"><strong>WIS.1     </strong></font><font color="#9933ff"><strong>INT.1</strong></font>    |                |             |              |              |<font color="#9933ff"><font color="#ff0000"><strong>STR.2     <font color="#00cc00">AGI.2     </font><font color="#ffff00">STA.2    </font></strong> <font color="#00ffff"><strong>WIS.2     </strong></font><font color="#9933ff"><strong>INT.2</strong></font></font></font>    |                |             |              |              |<strong><font color="#ff0000">STR.3     </font><font color="#00cc00">AGI.3     </font><font color="#ffff00">STA.3    </font></strong> <font color="#00ffff"><strong>WIS.3     </strong></font><font color="#9933ff"><strong>INT.3</strong></font>    |                |             |              |              |<strong><font color="#ff0000">STR.4     </font><font color="#00cc00">AGI.4     </font><font color="#ffff00">STA.4    </font></strong> <font color="#00ffff"><strong>WIS.4     </strong></font><font color="#9933ff"><strong>INT.4</strong></font>    |                |             |              |              |<strong><font color="#ff0000">STR.5     </font><font color="#00cc00">AGI.5     </font><font color="#ffff00">STA.5    </font></strong> <font color="#00ffff"><strong>WIS.5     </strong></font><font color="#9933ff"><strong>INT.5</strong></font><strong><font color="#9933ff"></font></strong> <strong><font color="#9933ff"></font></strong> </p><p>*  Pickpocket is the (rogue) <strong>starter</strong> skill.</p><p>*  Each stat  <em><font size="2">(STR, AGI, STA, WIS, INT) </font></em> represents a <strong>branch   </strong><font size="1">(the vertical lines, in the diagram)</font></p><p>*  Within each branch there are 5 <strong>abilities</strong>  <font size="2"><em>(STR.1, STA.3, INT.2, etc.)</em></font></p><p>*  Within each ability, there are a certain number of <strong>ranks</strong> <em><font size="2">(i.e. levels of power, which equates to spell quality -- represented by a small number next to the ability you've spent points in (see the small "0" beside pickpocket?))</font></em></p><p> </p><p>Noone has yet made an official name for each "tier" or "stage" of all 5 branches  <em><font size="2">(the horizontal matches in the diagram; e.g.  STR.4, AGI.4, STA.4, WIS.4, INT.4). </font> </em>"Tier" seems vaguely sensible, except that terminology is already used to refer to adventure/crafting level ranges. Don't mistake "rank" for tier/stage -- rank does not refer to an ability's position in the tree, it refers to the level of power (spell quality) you have purchased by spending points in that ability.</p><p> </p><p>The number of ranks an ability has, and how many points one rank costs, depends on where it is in the tree.</p><ul><li>The starter skill has costs <strong>1 point</strong>. It has only <strong>1 rank</strong> available.</li><li>Abilities 1, 2, 3 and 4 in any branch cost <strong>1 point per rank</strong>. These abilities each have <strong>8 ranks available</strong>. You must reach <strong>at least rank 4</strong> (i.e. spend 4 points) in an ability in order to unlock the next ability in that branch.</li><li>Ability 5 <font size="2"><em>(the final ability: STR.5, AGI.5, STA.5, etc.)</em></font> in any branch costs <strong>8 points</strong>. Each final ability has only <strong>1 rank</strong> available.</li></ul><p> </p><p>                         Pickpocket                           <font color="#cccccc">     <----- 1 rank    ...  1 point per rank</font>                                 |    ____________ ________________    /                |             |              |              <strong><font color="#ff0000">STR.1     </font><font color="#00cc00">AGI.1     </font><font color="#ffff00">STA.1    </font></strong> <font color="#00ffff"><strong>WIS.1     </strong></font><font color="#9933ff"><strong>INT.1</strong></font><font color="#cccccc">      <----- 8 ranks  ...  1 point per rank</font>    |                |             |              |              |<font color="#9933ff"><font color="#ff0000"><strong>STR.2     <font color="#00cc00">AGI.2     </font><font color="#ffff00">STA.2    </font></strong> <font color="#00ffff"><strong>WIS.2     </strong></font><font color="#9933ff"><strong>INT.2</strong></font></font></font><font color="#cccccc">      <----- 8 ranks  ...  1 point per rank</font>    |                |             |              |              |<strong><font color="#ff0000">STR.3     </font><font color="#00cc00">AGI.3     </font><font color="#ffff00">STA.3    </font></strong> <font color="#00ffff"><strong>WIS.3     </strong></font><font color="#9933ff"><strong>INT.3</strong></font><font color="#cccccc">      <----- 8 ranks  ...  1 point per rank</font>    |                |             |              |              |<strong><font color="#ff0000">STR.4     </font><font color="#00cc00">AGI.4     </font><font color="#ffff00">STA.4    </font></strong> <font color="#00ffff"><strong>WIS.4     </strong></font><font color="#9933ff"><strong>INT.4</strong></font><font color="#cccccc">      <----- 8 ranks  ...  1 point per rank</font>    |                |             |              |              |<strong><font color="#ff0000">STR.5     </font><font color="#00cc00">AGI.5     </font><font color="#ffff00">STA.5    </font></strong> <font color="#00ffff"><strong>WIS.5     </strong></font><font color="#9933ff"><strong>INT.5</strong></font><font color="#cccccc">      <----- 1 ranks  ...  8 points per rank</font></p><p> </p><p>Hope that clears things up.... maybe? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Message Edited by overfloater on <span class="date_text">02-09-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:53 AM</span></p>

the shield/2nd slot empty requirement is very disappointing imo, I would have loved any DPS increase where I can still dualwield =/

[Mion da Peon]

<div></div><p>I heartily disagree, these skills make the 1H play style very viable, adding some much needed novelty back into EQ2. </p><p>Let me be the first to proclaim wisdom love!  Wisdom / Agl FTW</p><p>... time to go shopping for a 1 hander</p>

[Syrano]

<div>I tend to agree with Meon.  When Swashy's were first forming there were a ton of complaints about no viable one-hand or one-hand/buckler builds/weapons.  Some of these lines will now make that playstyle not only viable, but powerful. The downside is that items, to date anyway, have not really been focused that way for our class.  One-handers aren't generally that impressive and there are few, if any, bucklers that make much sense for a rogue.  Hopefully, KoS changes that in a big way <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>I'm a rapier/dagger kinda guy, but I would definately fiddle with cutlass builds or cutlass/buckler builds.  It would be fun, and a change of pace in both appearance and style.</div>

[ilucife]

1h proc more too. but ill stay with DW, i just think i look like i kick more [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] with two weapons... and how many pirates wear shieldsso far im planing on taking agi and getting as much haste as possible, then spending the rest on str.btw sta would be an amzaing path if it were not for second hand empy(where did second hand empty come from?)so not only can we not proc off of our off hand but we can no longer use weapons too<span>:smileywink:</span><div></div>

[Sabatini]

Have to admit the Wisdom line does look surprisingly tasty. I'm also a Rapier/Dagger type but I could definately see going single cutlass. With procs/poisons only working with the main anyway its a very valid way to go. If I go that way I'll definately be trying that Int/parry bonus on top of that.The Stamina line also looks tempting. there are times I'd love an area taunt. But probably wont.

[m0ya]

<div></div><p>REPLY TO OVERFLOATER</p><p> </p><p>Yep... very clear now... Tyvm!</p><p>Just a little question.... when we get to Str4, can we still use the Str 1, 2 and 3?</p>

[Success]

My biggest gripe, why the heck do rogues need or even want an aoe taunt? That's just stupid.I find it VERY lame to require certain weapons in AA skills. That goes for ANY class. That's just totally 100% lame. [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] is SOE doing here? I mean come on. We already have to swap out weapons left and right in these raid zones. Instead of making it better, they make it even worst.They really need to get quick swap slots and remove the in combat swap timer.<p>Message Edited by Successer on <span class="date_text">02-09-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:11 PM</span></p>

[the flu]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Successer wrote:My biggest gripe, why the heck do rogues need or even want an aoe taunt? That's just stupid.I find it VERY lame to require certain weapons in AA skills. That goes for ANY class. That's just totally 100% lame. [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] is SOE doing here? I mean come on. We already have to swap out weapons left and right in these raid zones. Instead of making it better, they make it even worst.They really need to get quick swap slots and remove the in combat swap timer.<p>Message Edited by Successer on <span class="date_text">02-09-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:11 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I think SOE considers Rogues more light tanks than dps- meaning we are intended to serve as tanks in pick up groups or in an emergency when other options have failed. An aoe taunt helps with this. Plus, in the right circumstances I see it as a way of helping the MT get control back if we have transfer going on to them.For a raid set up- you're right, it is pretty useless outside of a few rare situations. But if you PUG alot or are in a raiding situation where things are not ideal, it could come in handy.As for certain weapons- I think in lu20 outright mob immunities are going away- they will still be highly resistant, but not immune (feels for wizards for whom some raids consist of waiting on ice comet to recycle).</span></div>

[Scort]

Yea, outright immunity going away is good for some of us, mostly melee but, it will hurt casters at the same time. They will loose that 3 second recast on failure, even if their Ice Comet only does 20 damage.For casters, out right total resist is better.For melee, especially swashbucklers, outright total resist sucks. You miss with your debuff skills and you have to wait the full time to try and get that nice debuff off again. This is really important when it comes to Lung puncture, where it can mean the MT taking 6k hits if you miss, versus 4k hits if it hits.<p>Message Edited by Scortch on <span class="date_text">02-09-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:36 PM</span></p>

[Mion da Peon]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Successer wrote:My biggest gripe, why the heck do rogues need or even want an aoe taunt? That's just stupid.<hr></blockquote><p>Well if we get a 12 second melee immunity at level 5 and riposte on every block using en guard an AE taunt could be used very effectively to liquify everything around us... add inspired daring to set speed to puree.  I also believe with the correct selection of traits we'll be able to tank as well as a plate class; the AE taunt taking this idea to polished fruition.</p><p>Possible AE line-up:</p><p>Cancel argo-transfer</p><p>Use Swathe</p><p>Hit ID</p><p>Use ruse</p><p>Use taunt</p><p>Hit en guard</p><p>Hit immunity</p><p>auto attack w/ hurricane</p><p>laugh as everything dies</p>

[overfloat]

<div></div><p>I'm still debating whether the WIS line is worth it... The tradeoff is meant to be that the +Haste and +DPS more than compensates for the lost offhand weapon, though the other downside is that you lose offhand stats. Bear in mind, though, that most higher level swashbucklers are already going have a fairly hefty haste (item + bravado) during most non-tanking combat, and -- unless these Achievement haste buffs break stacking rules or the current haste cap -- a single group haste buff from an enchanter, monk, etc., is going to negate most (if not all) of that haste benefit from the achievement... not to mention negating the benefit of our current self hastes. I just see many of the haste-based skills losing effectiveness for swashbucklers because of our high "base" haste.</p><p>The INT line is actually sounding pretty interesting. I'd imagine the STR and INT lines will be favourites with raiders, the STA line with pickup or duo fiends who end up tanking a lot (or even soloers). I'm still not sure where the WIS line fits in... <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Mion da Peon]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>overfloater wrote:<div></div><p>I'm still not sure where the WIS line fits in... <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><hr></blockquote><p>style. Thats where it fits in :smileywink: But seriously, the skill additions are a godsent when fighting an orange mob even if the dps on the auto attacks don't exactly add up. </p><p>Q: You know how useful autoattacks are when jousting? </p><p>A: Not very.  </p><p>This goes without mentioning the other sweet perks of the line like the 16 % added blockage.</p>

[Severed Ha]

<div></div><p>That would use up all 50 pts then.  This is I think more of a Defensive Solers methed.</p><p>Pickpocket (1)</p><p>Str.1(4) Str.2(1)</p><p>Int.1(4) Int.2(4) Int.3(<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Wis.1(4) Wis.2(4) Wis.3(<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Wis.4(4) Wis.5(<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> </p><p>Still trying to think of a Good Offensive Spec.  You know the routine... gotta find that Cookie Cutter Mold... :-p</p>

[Severed Ha]

<div></div><div><p>Dbl Post....</p></div><p>Message Edited by Severed Hand on <span class="date_text">02-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:34 AM</span></p>

[Mion da Peon]

<div></div><div></div><div>Hrm, heres another max defensive setup:</div><div> </div><div>(1) Pickpocket</div><div> </div><div>(4) str         (4) Torporous Strike    (<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> self preservation</div><div> </div><div>(4)sta         (4)Swear                      (<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Conditioning</div><div> </div><div>(4) int          (4) Boot Dagger          (<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Thieve's Prowess</div><div> </div><div>Total points spent: 49</div><div> </div><div>While not offering any of the uber skills it does grant a wide range of abilities, stats, and + 29 def, +600ish hps, and 48 parry skill all while still being able to duel weild.</div><div> </div><div>Wisdom defensive setup:</div><div> </div><div>(1) Pickpocket</div><div> </div><div>(4) str         (4) Torporous Strike    (<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> self preservation</div><div> </div><div>(4) wis        (4) Cross                     (<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> freehand reversal         (<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> unencumbered combat      (<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Coule</div><div> </div><div>Total points spent: 49</div><div> </div><div>With Coule defensive stance doesn't sting quite as bad. This build offers +29 def, 8% parry, + 49 parry on top of defensive stance.  Limited to 1 hander though :smileyindifferent:</div><div> </div><div>[Edit] you could swap around stamina / wisdom in the two builds to get total immunity / AC in the second or more parry in the first [Edit]</div><p>Message Edited by Mion da Peon on <span class="date_text">02-11-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:32 AM</span></p>

[Keyh]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div>Hmm, let me try my hand in making some cookiecutters:</div><div> </div><div><strong><font color="#000099">Small Group Tank:</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#000099"></font></strong> </div><div><strong><font color="#000099">Pickpocket(1)</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#000099"></font></strong> </div><div><strong><font color="#000099">Str1(4)-Str2(4)-Str3(<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#000099">Sta1(4)-Sta2(5)-Sta3(<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#000099">Wis1(4)-Wis2(4)-Wis3(<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#000099"></font></strong> </div><div><strong><font color="#000099">This combined with a 1 hander, no secondary, pretty nice tank.</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#000099"></font></strong> </div><div><strong><font color="#000099">You get a bonus to Str, Sta for health, and Wis for resists.</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#000099"></font></strong> </div><div><strong><font color="#000099">Get the decent AoE Taunt as well as the following bonuses:+20 Str+20 Sta+20 Wis</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#000099">+46 Parry</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#000099">+29 Defense</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#000099">+10.4% Health</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#000099">8% of attacks riposte from front</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#000099">8% attacks parried from other quadrants</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#000099">20% Haste</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#000099"></font></strong> </div><div><strong><font color="#000099">OR</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#000099"></font></strong> </div><div><div><strong><font color="#000099">Pickpocket(1)</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#000099"></font></strong> </div><div><strong><font color="#000099">Int1(4)-Int2(4)-Int3(<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#000099">Sta1(4)-Sta2(5)-Sta3(<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#000099">Wis1(4)-Wis2(4)-Wis3(<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#000099"></font></strong> </div><div><strong><font color="#000099">This combined with a 1 hander, no secondary, pretty nice tank.</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#000099"></font></strong> </div><div><strong><font color="#000099">You get a bonus to Sta for health, and Wis for resists.</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#000099"></font></strong> </div><div><strong><font color="#000099">Get the decent AoE Taunt as well as the following bonuses:+20 Int+20 Sta+20 Wis</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#000099">+94 Parry</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#000099">+10.4% Health</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#000099">8% of attacks riposte from front</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#000099">8% attacks parried from other quadrants</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#000099">20% Haste</font></strong></div></div><div><strong><font color="#000099"></font></strong> </div><div><strong><font color="#000099">I'll try my hand at a few others later <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font></strong></div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by Keyh on <span class="date_text">02-11-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:34 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Keyh on <span class="date_text">02-11-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:37 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Keyh on <span class="date_text">02-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:35 AM</span></p>

[Severed Ha]

<div></div>The funny thing about the Defensive Builds.... None of them have Agility... And to think Agility is suppose to help deteremine your Defense... Lol.. While Str should be offensive yet it gives more to defense.

[Keyh]

<div></div><div></div><div><font color="#ff0000"><strong>Group/Small Raid offensive</strong></font></div><div><strong><font color="#ff0000"></font></strong> </div><div><strong><font color="#ff0000">Pickpocket</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#ff0000"></font></strong> </div><div><strong><font color="#ff0000">Str1(<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#ff0000">Agi1(5)-Agi2(4)-Agi3(4)-Agi4(<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />-Agi5(<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#ff0000">Int1(4)-Int2(<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#ff0000"></font></strong> </div><div><strong><font color="#ff0000">Agi line is for the Haste and for the lowered reuse timers. Str line is for the bonuses to Str, and Int line is for lowered hate.</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#ff0000"></font></strong> </div><div><strong><font color="#ff0000">+ 40 Str</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#ff0000">+ 25 Agi</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#ff0000">+ ?? Incombat Movement</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#ff0000">+ 14% Attack</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#ff0000">- 10% reuse on CAs</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#ff0000"></font></strong> </div><div> </div><div><strong><font color="#ff0000"></font></strong> </div><div><strong><font color="#00cc00">Style</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#00cc00"></font></strong> </div><div><strong><font color="#00cc00">Pickpocket(1)</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#00cc00"></font></strong> </div><div><strong><font color="#00cc00">Wis1(4)-Wis2(4)-Wis3(<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />-Wis4(<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />-Wis5(<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#00cc00">Agi1(4)-Agi2(4)-Agi3(4)-Agi4(5)</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#00cc00"></font></strong> </div><div><strong><font color="#00cc00">+36% haste (+ whatever Agi4(5) gives)</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#00cc00">+16% DPS </font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#00cc00">+8% Riposte in front</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#00cc00">+8% Parry in other quadrants</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#00cc00">+46 Parry</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#00cc00">+23 Slashing, Piercing, Ranged</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#00cc00">+20 Agi</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#00cc00">+20 Wis</font></strong></div><div><strong><font color="#00cc00"></font></strong> </div><div><strong><font color="#00cc00"></font></strong> </div><div><strong><font color="#00cc00"></font></strong> </div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by Keyh on <span class="date_text">02-11-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:01 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Keyh on <span class="date_text">02-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:36 AM</span></p>

[Redel]

<div></div><p>I have question on Stanima 5,    its a 12 second parry 100% of attacks.  </p><p>My question is, is it only 100% of auto attack attacks like against mobs, or would it also include combat art attacks from other players.   I thinking of a build that would be good on the pvp server.   If its just auto attack i think ill save myself 12 points in that line.</p><p>So far i would have  pickpocket 1 point</p><p>str1 (4)</p><p> </p><p>sta 1 (4) +stanima</p><p>sta 2 (4) ae taunt (garbage for pvp?)</p><p>sta 3 (<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> 10.4 % increase total hits</p><p>sta 4 (4) haste/shield required ( garbage)</p><p>sta 5 (<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> 12 secs of parry 100% of attacks</p><p> </p><p>agi 1 (4) +agility</p><p>agi 2 (4) 3hits damage shield for around 600 hitpoints id bet this level (nice for pvp)</p><p>agi 3 (4) in combat movement speed (nice for pvp)</p><p>agi 4 (1) haste</p><p> </p><p>this would leave around 4 points left to mess around with.  if sta 5 doesnt parry combat arts which is most of melee damage? then I could save 12 points in that line to raise base stats and agi  rank levels 2,3, and 4 to max.</p>

[Tybr]

<div>Requested Sticky...</div><p>Message Edited by Tybr on <span class="date_text">02-12-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:04 AM</span></p>

[Tybr]

<div></div><p>Message Edited by Tybr on <span class="date_text">02-12-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:34 AM</span></p>

[Keyh]

<div>The last choice in the line seems somewhat.....situational though. Also, as pointed out, there seems to be no really good DPS increase for dual wielders. Hell, there really isn't ANY good DPS increase. The best thing I can see is maxing out the second tier in Str, Wis, and Int, and the fourth in Str which will give you 4 more attacks to work with (albeit weak attacks). The Agi for the haste and lower reuse timers seems to be the best for dual wielders.</div>

[StarryEyedElf]

<div></div><div>Nice thread!</div><div> </div><div>And good job keeping this thread on topic, everyone. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Mion da Peon]

<div></div><p>Wow, is this our first stickied thread ?! Sweeeet.  In commemeration of this event I will post my picks for AAs in KoS!</p><p> </p><p>(1) pickpocket</p><p>well... duh, should be cool anyway</p><p>(4) agl       (4) Calculated Riposte       (4)  Buccaneer's Stride     (4) buccaneer's Haste               (<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Rapidity</p><p>A few reasons I picked this line over the strenght.  On raids we arn't "in" all the time to throw up extra debuffs on the mobs and  sometimes there's barely enough time to cycle through what we have. *cough* brigs pick str *cough* Additionally, rogues can pretty easily sit at the str cap so no worries there. The last thing our class needs is more attacks; spamming CAs is a full time job and with little downtime between chains. On the other hand, there's little problem speeding up what we do have to shorten this gap.  Effective on jousting, overall DPS, and with a 1 hander, Rapidity offers the best dps increase of all the AS and shouldn't be missed :smileywink: </p><p>(4) wis      (4)  Cross                           (4)  Freehand Reversal     (5) Unencumbered Combat      (<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Coule</p><p>It has been noted that upping haste might not be the most practical thing for a swashy to do with the possibility of a haste cap @ 100 % or a minimum delay @ .8 seconds.  I know the persona window displays haste over 100 % so unless there is a softcap or somthing it's probably a rumor.  The minimum delay thing may hold merit if no parse can be found with (number of attacks / time of fight) < .8 or .6.  I'll check my logs tonight to try to confirm or deny this.  Either way, haste is present but not emphasied in this build.  With a FBSS (15%), supurious bravado adept III (58%), and 26 % from AAs a swashy would sit at 99 % haste.  Also using a one hander there is no speculation of running under the minimum haste cap. You also get more bang for your buck in terms of how much is hasted and extra delay in which to space CAs.  While maybe not preferable all the time, the 1 handed stance is better in two distinct situations due to the final ability Coule.  It should be used foremost when fighting orange mobs to score extra hits from both CAs (which are "rapid&quot<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and auto attack.  Additionally, it is useful any time you toss up defensive stance to offset the skill drop and to cause inturrupts via cross.  The 4 % parry also helps out a bit with defense and en guard.</p>

[overfloat]

<div></div><p>A sticky? *faints*</p><p>FYI, there have been a couple of further changes to rogue AAs on Beta, in essence adding some more weapon/shield requirements. Calculated Riposte is now Buccaneer's Retort and requires a rapier (primary), and Swear requires a roundshield. I'm not overly impressed by the sheer number of different weapon requirements because it basically punishes people for spreading their points across several different branches. Don't know about you all, but I can't afford to keep myself equipped with a current-tier sword, dagger, rapier, roundshield <u>and</u> 1H weapon (not to mention offhand alternatives to counter mob immunities) and the hotswapping could become nightmarish.</p><p>I'm wary of investing heavily in haste AAs, too, given our high basic haste. Personally I'm more interested in the hate loss AAs and some of the stat and utility abilities, basically to help me do my current job better rather than having to change my entire playstyle and weapon setup just to accomodate a couple of gimmicky AAs of dubious benefit. Honestly, I foresee the weapon requirements being removed from AAs later down the road anyway -- we've all seen it happen before, SOE making things awkward at first and then just removing all those awkward conditions 6 months down the road when everyone complains!</p>

[CrazedMut]

<div>Yeah I was kind of disappointed that at least two trees have awesome skills that require something stupid like "secondary" empty or a "greatsword" in primary. It feels like SOE are pushing us toward the tank route with all theses requirements on top of the number of defensive based skills. I myself want to personalise in pure RAID DPS, so looks like im going AGI/INT, but WIS for instance would be an awesome alternative if not for the "Stupid (IMHO)" requirements.</div><div> </div><div>Bleh. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. Pickpocket is nice, if random, though. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</div>

[Scort]

Yea, requiring certain weapons for these AAs is lame. One of the worst ideas ever.Just more weapon switching. Why can't we just pick the weapons we like and be done with it?<p>Message Edited by Scortch on <span class="date_text">02-12-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:10 PM</span></p>

[overfloat]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>CrazedMutha wrote:<div>Yeah I was kind of disappointed that at least two trees have awesome skills that require something stupid like "secondary" empty or a "greatsword" in primary.<hr></div></blockquote>... especially seeing as rogues can't equip greatswords. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Other thing that bugs me is that the skills refer to "dagger", "sword", "rapier", etc .... but you'll notice that the Examine info on weapons has no such classification. If I remember right, we used to have skills for each weapon type but they did away with that months ago and just went with the basic "piercing/slashing/crushing", skills based on damage type not weapon type. That now leaves us in the situation of not actually knowing for sure if a weapon will work with a particular AA (you can make a pretty good guess with most weapons, but still ... silly oversight). For example, is a sabre a sword or a rapier? In reality is a mix of slashing/poking weapon, but EQ2 classifies it as a piercing weapon (like a rapier) even though it looks more like a slashing weapon (which would surely fall under "sword&quot<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.<p>Message Edited by overfloater on <span class="date_text">02-12-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:39 PM</span></p>

[Tybr]

<div></div><p>After looking at the break down...believe it or not I'll be going AGI and INT.</p><p> </p><p>I do not deign to be a Tank...I'll pull agro only if I have to (save a overeager caster) and then I'll dump it as fast as I can.</p>

[Keyh]

<div>It looks like the first line gives +5 of the stat per point put into it. Could you update with that Aegis?</div>

[Riktiktiche]

<div></div><p>i have checked out different classes AA:s and the swasbuckler ones are the most stylish and made me want to play my swas more, most other classes had more or less boring boosts, with swas you have so many ways to go.. =)</p><p>i think i will go for the only 1-hander secondary empty for style =)</p><p> </p><p>staff</p>

[overfloat]

<div></div><p>Hehe, I almost think I'd prefer boring boosts. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I'm not sure how other classes fared but the problem with our AA branches is that, functionally, many of them are mutually exclusive:</p><ul><li>The WIS line negates the STA line (can't have an open secondary slot and shield equipped at the same time). Both require complete changes in fighting style.</li><li>The primary slot requirements for the second "tier" AAs from the STR, AGI and INT branches would require hotswapping and purchase of multiple weapons in order to use them.</li><li>Several skills are based on Haste -- unless these AAs (a) break the current haste stacking rules and/or (b) allow us exceed the current haste cap, they will (a) be functionally redundant and (b) <font size="1">(even if they do stack) </font>be additionally redundant to swashbucklers because we function at a high base haste anyway. <font size="1">(Ditto for DPS as a combat modifier: not sure what the stacking/cap rules are for that)</font></li></ul><p>I think it's good that they've given each branch a distinct "flavour" rather than making the tree an entirely random jumble of abilities, but the difficulty with the current format is that it punishes rogues for exploring more than one or two branches. Picking the first few skills of several several different is going to cause so many incompatibilities and stacking issues as to make them almost useless. If there are going to be primary slot requirements, they should at least be in the lower "tiers" of each branch, not on the second skill in each branch.</p>

[Riktiktiche]

<div></div><p>hehe well check out berserker ones then, one line needs swords, one hammers, one spears, summoner again needt tank pet for one, scout for another, and mage for a third</p><p>so i thing we are well off =)</p><p> </p><p>staff</p>

[Keyh]

<div></div><div></div>Here's my analysis of all the lines. This is all personal opinion:<b><font color="#ff0000">Strength - </font></b><font color="#ff0000">First tier (the +str) is nice for any offensive build. With a possible +40 strength. Second, Fourth, and Fifth tiers are VERY nice for raiding and pvp (if the skills work on Epics, nothing says they don't). They're nice for some of the "stronger" names as well (Cazel, Djinn for CQ, Ancient Cyclops). In everyday grind however, I think they will fall short of useful. The third tier is nice for defensive builds, but I personally would take the +46 Parry of Int 3 over this. If you're going down the line for the Str5 then go for it,  but Str3 seems like just a little treat, no reason to go down just for that (Unless of course there's a parry/defense softcap that I'm unaware of).</font><b><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#00cc33"></font><font color="#00cc33">Agility - </font></font></b><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#00cc33">Seems to be a nice line in making us a little faster. First tier (+agi) is nice to get our power and evade up a decent amount. Second line is just a mediocre attack that can only be used when tanking or soloing. The third tier....meh. Increased In-combat speed. Ok for running away I guess. The 16% just for a movement boost isn't worth the 8 points to put into it IMHO. If I'm in trouble I'll hit Escape. The only thing I can see this useful in would be kiting. Fourth tier, another ability that is really nothing special. 8 points for 14% haste just doesn't seem worth it to me. Esspecially (as stated previously) since we can usually hit the (alleged) cap easily within a group. Fifth tier, 2 words "Mana sink". I don't know about anyone else, but if there isn't an enchanter in the group, I'm teatering on the edge of no mana as it is. If you have a decent amount of power and get some sort of power regen, this will be great. Otherwise, you're just bursting your DPS.<font color="#ffff00"><b>Stamina - </b>Nice line for the wannabe tanks out there. First tier (+sta) would be nice to get your health up to start doing some tanking. Second tier, taunt, nice if you're trying to be a tank, otherwise it's pretty useless. Third tier, +10.6% max health? Nice for just about any raider, keep you alive a bit longer. In groups it's somewhat useless (unless you're a tank). Nice soloing ability with in, that'll add 10% more time onto your fight. Fourth tier, pretty much crap, need a shield in order to make use of 16% dps+haste, bah.  Fifth tier, dodge, 12 seconds? I guess it'd be nice with en garde, but with the recast time, it'd be a nice situational thing. Dodge+En garde+ID = mucho damage.<font color="#0099cc"><b>Wis -  </b>Style line, decent mix of offensive and defensive buffs. First tier, +wis, nice for resists for the wannabe tanks and also to protect a little with AoEs during raids and such. Second tier, nice little crowd control thing, stifles (if not epic). Nice for raids and some groups. Third tier....smells like Monk. Very nice parry boosts with ripostes in front. Nice for soloing and tanking. Boost in haste for offense, again, nice all around, only problem is that it requires secondary slot empty. With procs only going off on the primary though, I feel this is the best all around line. Fourth Tier, haste nice for all around occasions as well a little low, but still a decent tier. Fifth tier gives a very nice boost to offensive abilities.<b><font color="#993399">Int - </font></b><font color="#993399">Mostly hate control. First tier, nice for a boost in poisons and proc damage. Second tier is nice to keep hate down, the need for a dagger is somewhat crappy though. Third tier, very nice for tank/solo builds, more parry, yummy, also very nice for En Garde. Not very good for group and raid. Tier 4 yay more hate reducers, decent, on par with Shadow slip I suppose. Tier 5, AoE shadow slip. Very nice....if you need it nice for adds in raids I suppose. Again, very situational. I think that this is nice, but personally I RARELY if ever have hate problems.<font color="#ffff99">Well, there's my analysis. This is from what I read, I'm not in the Beta so can't say for sure.</font></font></font> </font></font></font><b><font color="#ff0000"></font></b><div></div><p>Message Edited by Keyh on <span class="date_text">02-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:27 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Keyh on <span class="date_text">02-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:47 AM</span></p>

[Jhaan-Kre]

<div></div><p>Our haste, incombat movement speed and 100% parry have been nerfed again.</p><p>parry = 7 seconds now, instead of 12</p><p>in combat = 1.2% (maybe 1.4% cant remember) instead of 2% per point</p><p>hastes dropped similar %'s too</p><p>everytime i log in, there is another one of our AA's nerfed.</p>

[Mion da Peon]

<div>heh nifty valentine icons, I feel the love!</div><div> </div><div>Keyh:</div><div> </div><div>As I read Calculated Riposte, it won't actually proc more hits from en guard, good point about the strenght line and PvP though.</div>

[Keyh]

<span><blockquote><hr>Mion da Peon wrote:<div>heh nifty valentine icons, I feel the love!</div><div> </div><div>Keyh:</div><div> </div><div>As I read Calculated Riposte, it won't actually proc more hits from en guard, good point about the strenght line and PvP though.</div><hr></blockquote>Ahh yes, after rereading that it seems you're right.Oh well :-p</span><div></div>

[AegisCrown]

<div>So anyone considering going 1 hander in the expansion for the wisdon AA line?</div><div>if so anyone ahve any parses of 1hander vs dw?</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[overfloat]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>AegisCrown wrote:<div>So anyone considering going 1 hander in the expansion for the wisdon AA line?</div><div>if so anyone ahve any parses of 1hander vs dw?<hr></div></blockquote>Still a little suspicious of that WIS line. It's going to take a lot of parses on Live to convince me to try it over DW setups.

[overfloat]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><p>Ehhh... haven't been able to log into beta the last couple of days. Some major changes since then (still reading over it myself):</p><p><a target="_blank" href="http://oz.cx/eq2/kos-beta-brigand-achievements-20060216.png">KoS Beta Rogue Achievements 02/16/06</a></p><p><font size="1">(huge picture, 56k users beware -- courtesy of Agra <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )</font></p><p> </p><p>PS: don't forget to refer to the "Rank" (no. of points spent) when comparing stats to previous incarnations</p><p>PPS: notice they've added "class type" names to the skills in each branch: Blackguard, Pirate, Mercenary, Fencer, Thief. I wonder if this might not be in response to feedback someone left on the beta forums to have titles associated with obtaining max rank in a particular branch... Sadly, I like "Fencer", but the WIS line still puts me off.</p><p>PPPS: Check out "Walk the Plank" -- this is <em>exactly </em>the effect that someone suggested in a thread here a month or so ago, when we were throwing out random ideas for T7 combat arts. Congratulations! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>PPPPS: yes, in its current incarnation it looks like "Lunge Reversal" is about 400 times better than En Garde....  expect that to get changed!</p><p>PPPPPS:  any more P's and I think I should just edit this into paragraphs instead...</p><p>Message Edited by overfloater on <span class="date_text">02-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:30 AM</span></p>

[overfloat]

<div></div><p>Feedback I just left on the beta forums, in case it sparks any debate and raises further issues here too.</p><p> </p><blockquote><hr>Random comments (marked the paritcularly important points that I think need addressing with "<strong><font color="#ff0000">!!</font></strong>" ):<p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>STR.2</strong></font> - Improvement over the previous version, being as recovery times are negligible.<font color="#ff0000"><strong>STR.3</strong></font> - figures seem fair<font color="#ff0000"><strong>STR.4</strong></font> - 0.7% seems incredibly small, even for Rank 1... especially not knowing what the base crit chance is.<font color="#ff0000"><strong>STR.5</strong></font> - duration/recast/power ratios are improved (longer duration and definitely preferable). Still not sure about only a 50% increase. Rear/flanking condition isn't that much of an issue. Is 50% increase significant enough for 8 points spent? <em>Also see below. </em><strong><font color="#ff0000">!! </font></strong><em>*</em><font color="#00cc00"><strong>AGI.2</strong></font> - this was an effect suggested on a swashbuckler thread a few months ago when we were throwing out ideas for T7 combat arts, very cool to see the Devs noticed it! However... <strong><font color="#ff0000">!! </font></strong>Please amend this art to work on non-Epic targets only, or a misclick is going to wipe raids. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> It has no place on raids, anyway, so this would be no great loss.<font color="#00cc00"><strong>AGI.3</strong></font> - 5% at Rank 4? Not exactly a "desirable" ability, definitely not at that rate, solely a filler skill. I'd really prefer to see a different effect.<font color="#00cc00"><strong>AGI.4</strong></font> - 8% proc ... fair enough, not a bad skill.<font color="#00cc00"><strong>AGI.5</strong></font> - <font color="#ff0000"><strong>!! </strong></font>I'm honestly not sure there is any benefit to this skill whatsoever. It amounts to a reduction of just 0.25s between CA casts for 8 points spent? Ummm... Bearing in mind that spamming CAs often amounts to a deathwish anyway, I don't see anyone in their right mind ever taking this ability (unless they misunderstand the description). Is it meant to say "recast time" rather than "recovery time". That would make it an insanely good ability... one extreme to the other.<font color="#ffff00"><strong>STA.2</strong></font> - seems a little powerful for Rank1? If the threat scales significantly with Rank, it could outshine the swashbuckler's main taunt line.<font color="#ffff00"><strong>STA.3</strong></font> - percentage seems fair (if it's 1.3% per rank)<font color="#ffff00"><strong>STA.4</strong></font> - <strong><font color="#ff0000">!! </font></strong> I'm assuming it's not actually 6.2% DPS per rank, otherwise that's absurdly high. Would be interesting to know how it scales with rank.<font color="#ffff00"><strong>STA.5</strong></font> - figures seem fair enough. 50% proc rate seems maybe a tad high? (Not sure how that compares to Fighter subclass hate procs, though, to put it in perspective.)<font color="#00ffff"><strong>WIS.2</strong></font> - <strong><font color="#ff0000">!! !! </font></strong> it's been mentioned already, this needs to change. It's about 40 times better than En Garde in every aspect, and that's only at Rank 1. It would also render En Garde utterly useless due to non-stacking.<font color="#00ffff"><strong>WIS.3</strong></font> - If it's 1.0% per Rank(?) seems a little low? I'd like to see increasing returns with increased rank, at least.<font color="#00ffff"><strong>WIS.4</strong></font> - again, would be interested to see how it scales with rank, as Rank1 is 24%. This skill is basically the one that compensates for the lack of offhand weapon, meaning it needs a fairly significant proc rate.<font color="#00ffff"><strong>WIS.5</strong></font> - figures seem fair<font color="#9933ff"><strong>INT.2</strong></font> - changed from ranged attack? Not bad, shame the hate reduction was removed but this would be a rogues only "fast combat stealth", which isn't bad.<font color="#9933ff"><strong>INT.3</strong></font> - <strong><font color="#ff0000">!! </font></strong>Errr... 3% chance to lose threat positions when I get hit? Sorry, utterly useless. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Obviously little use in raids (where damage = dead, much of the time, definitely so when there's only a 3% proc chance at Rank 1). Also useless in groups, too, where (a) we are a subclass designed to be able to tank relatively well anyway, and (b) we have Hideaway to lose aggro on demand. Very, very badly thought-out change. I actually much prefer the original Parry buff, even if the buff were reduced.<font color="#9933ff"><strong>INT.4</strong></font> - description is incredibly confusing! How much %? Depending on the actual % hate reduction, this should be a fairly nice ability. Passive = good change, thankyou. I assume this will no longer have an associated effective range, and just be applied to all hate generation? (in which case, thankyou for listening!)<font color="#9933ff"><strong>INT.5</strong></font> - <strong><font color="#ff0000">!! !! </font></strong> incredible ability. To the point that it completely overshadows brawler FD. As much as I hate to do it, I'm going to have to say that I'd like to see this reduced in effectiveness -- otherwise there will be screams from the brawlers (unless they get a similarly powerful FD + AE immunity option?).</p><p>* re: <strong><font color="#ff0000">STR.5</font></strong> - <em>As useful as this sounds, I can actually see this ability being a PITA. It will cause major confusion in raids, to the point of probably being disallowed by some raid leaders, because it will throw AE timing off completely and inconsistently. If we could maintain it constantly it would still be tricky, but a 1min duration / 2 min recast is just asking for trouble. It sounds nice but I think we'd end up risking entire raid forces if we used it, so I'd actually like to see this ability changed. Perhaps just a direct % decrease in mob spell potency?</em></p><hr></blockquote><p> </p>

[m0ya]

<div></div>Huh....... those are Rogue AA's?!? I prolly need ot look again.. because atm... we need a roundshield, second slot empty.. sword... [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] is that?! Any swahsy here fight with a  roundshield? Or with his second slot empty? not me... hehehe

[Debunkt]

<div></div><p>Are you kidding!? Xilla's Bug Zapper and Sandalwood Buckler <strong>4TW! </strong>(I really do use this combo for writs sometimes, just for fun <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )</p><p>Really though, I always thought dual wield was the way to go becuase there were no comparable 1-h weapons. Lately I've seen a couple that are a step in the right direction, like Swiftwhisper. If they kick in some more 1 handers like that or better it could work well with our WIS Ach's.</p>

[the flu]

As they currently stand, the wisdom and intelegence lines seem very attractive- the downside to wisdome being you cna't keep slash and pierce both at the same level as easily, but with mob changes it's not such a big deal. It also depends greatly on what hapens with the parry ability in the first step of the widom line, but I think that's the way I'm leaning. Intel would be nice, but I don't expect feign to last- brignads allready have a fd if I recall correctly. But if it stays as a feign, I'll take that line as a secondary, most likely with a split (two lines at 4 pts in each and 8 in the last should be possible.)Thanks for keeping us updated overflow.<div></div>

[Keyh]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>AegisCrown wrote:<div>So anyone considering going 1 hander in the expansion for the wisdon AA line?</div><div>if so anyone ahve any parses of 1hander vs dw?</div><div> </div><div> </div><hr></blockquote>Yep, I've more than considered it, I'm saving up money for a decent one hander. I'm going full Wis line and partial Int.</span></div>

[Mion da Peon]

<div></div>Just some food for thought; with procs changing, 1 handers will no longer grant more procs based on their high delays when using CAs.  This change comes just when I start to catch on to what rangers have been exploiting this whole time!  Blast, Foiled again!

[the flu]

<span><blockquote><hr>overfloater wrote:<div></div><p>Feedback I just left on the beta forums, in case it sparks any debate and raises further issues here too.</p><blockquote><p><font color="#ffff00"><strong></strong></font><font color="#00ffff"><strong>WIS.2</strong></font> - <strong><font color="#ff0000">!! !! </font></strong> it's been mentioned already, this needs to change. It's about 40 times better than En Garde in every aspect, and that's only at Rank 1. It would also render En Garde utterly useless due to non-stacking.<font color="#00ffff"><strong>WIS.3</strong></font> - If it's 1.0% per Rank(?) seems a little low? I'd like to see increasing returns with increased rank, at least.<font color="#00ffff"><strong>WIS.4</strong></font> - again, would be interested to see how it scales with rank, as Rank1 is 24%. This skill is basically the one that compensates for the lack of offhand weapon, meaning it needs a fairly significant proc rate.<font color="#00ffff"><strong>WIS.5</strong></font> - figures seem fair</p><hr></blockquote><p> </p>About wis1- I've been thinking. While this does look like the rank 8 version, there is a good chance it is buffed up because we have to have a free off hand for the widome line. This means we loose out on stats, so the extra damage may be to make up for that.I would hope that the loss of stats while using this line has been brought up and is being taken into account somewhere.<hr></blockquote></span><div></div>

[Scort]

I have done a lot of testing with this and one handed isn't a lot worst than dual wield, as long as you are CA spamming. Once you have to stop to wait on timers or out of power, one handed auto attack damage sucks royally to dual wield.Restriction like shield, one handed, etc. just sucks. a BAD idea. One of the worst they have ever come up with. I don't understand why they can't just make something like this and not put such artificial, unnecessary limits on it.<p>Message Edited by Scortch on <span class="date_text">02-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:40 PM</span></p>

[Luk]

<div></div>What is your attack rating with a one hander in comparison to dual wield, and what quality weapons are you using, my concern is that with only having 1 weapon and our second hand empty, is there going to be a negative impact on our attack rating, is WIS 5 + skills just to make up for the lack of a second weapon or is it actually going to be a bonus to attack rating above and beyond what we will already have.

[Trollf]

<div></div><div></div><p>Hi all swashies and to Overfloater in particular for the cool AA beta updates,</p><p>Was thinking about the AAs myself and where my swashie might be going after the expansion if I continue to play this game.</p><p>These are my individual comments on the skills and what I feel about them.</p><p><font color="#ff9900">str2</font>: sword in primary, fair enough, okay ability, not too shabby compared to what you get at ability2 in other lines.</p><p><font color="#ff9900">str3</font>: a nice defense buff. simple and effective.</p><p><font color="#ff9900">str4</font>: increase by % in relevance to the base chance? or just a straight out % addition to the base chance?</p><p><font color="#ff9900">str5</font>:as said, will be quite clunky to fit into where it shines best because of timer issues, then the jousting timing might be affected etc, maybe a macro to let ppl know? and percentage might be too low.</p><p><font color="#66cc00">agi2: </font>rapier equipped. hmm. Silverthorn? that aside, the skill is well thought out though. Very showy. Nice.</p><p><font color="#66cc00">agi3</font>: better as a pvp skill after snaring the guy up. more a ranger-ish skill.</p><p><font color="#66cc00">agi4:</font> quite balanced. good for DPS mode.</p><p><font color="#66cc00">agi5:</font> This is not too good enough for the 5 slot  skill and 8 AA points. Will rather have the 20- 30 percent decrease to REUSE timer. SOE please look into this.</p><p><font color="#996633">sta2:</font> i must say the taunting effects are none too shabby. no wonder we get the girls.</p><p><font color="#996666">sta3:</font> More health ... mmm... good stuff.</p><p><font color="#996666">sta4:</font> 48% at rank8 perhaps? if it is then, not shabby at all,gotta find a nice shield.</p><p><font color="#996666">sta5: </font>impressive 5slot skill. At least this skill looks like it is worthy of a 5slot. The previous 2 5slotters looked rather tame vs AA pts.</p><p>wis2: very very good skill. makes En Garde looks funny. at wis2 seems rather good to splash out for it.</p><p>wis3: i like this skill too. very cool and flavourish but at the cost of the off hand slot? better have a reallly nice one-handed <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>wis4: this would be the breaker for the line as it might be able to make up for the lack of the DPS of the offhand (it cant make up for the stats loss tho). As said, if it scales to 60% or more, worth watching out for.</p><p>wis5: not too hot about this one. yes, we get to hurt orange mobs more and miss less, but nothing to shout about for a 5slotter and 8 AA pt.</p><p><font color="#339999">int2:</font> i must say they pumped up the Int Tree. very cool skills incoming! nice assassin-like stealth and then into a brazen-line attack. Dagger restriction is meh but livable.</p><p><font color="#66cccc">int3:</font> not too hot about having to be hit to allow a CHANCE for it to work. Passive maybe okay and if the percentage was higher, maybe 40% at rank8?</p><p><font color="#66cccc">int4:</font> general hate reduction? nice <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />... you can Hail of Steel till tomorrow..*dreams*</p><p><font color="#66cccc">int5:</font> Feign Death. Honestly it is not as strong as the Brawlers one as they can repeatedly do it in 10 sec spurts. But we never asked for it to be as strong as that. Nice skill for a 5 slotter and 8 AAs. Utility to the max.</p><p> </p><p>Overall, the intelligence line was changed quite drastically and for the better. FD rocks.</p><p>The agility line was changed well too except for the special 5th skill which i feel needs to be looked into.</p><p>The Stamina line looks more defensive now and gives a very tankerish feel. Cheers to giving more identity to the line.</p><p>The strength line is still rather undefined with several dodgy effects.</p><p>Finally, the wisdom like is a coin flip and we will have to see the final ranks and the effectiveness/effects to judge this 2faced monstrosity. Can't say it isnt easily the coolest line though.</p><p>Lets wait a couple more days and see the final changes. *bated breath*</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Augerer Littlebee</p><p>60  Troll Swashbuckler</p><p>Bandit Lords Of Baubbleshire (40th level guild on LDL)</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by Trollfie on <span class="date_text">02-17-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:00 PM</span></p>

[Syrano]

<div>I think the options are great.  They're trying to introduce diversity back into the game and the rogue classes.  Why must every rogue be a dual-wielding type?  Why can't some prefer daggers, or swords, or rapiers or on-handed or buckler style combat?</div><div> </div><div>Each line has pro's and con's to it with a genuine attempt to balance out some of the negatives with great positives.  Want that feign death? Better hope you're a dagger wielder.  </div><div> </div><div>I *love* how we can choose a line that makes us very effective tanks.  I tanked a lot in my normal XP groups and this would've come in seriously handy.  Sure, it's no value on a raid but people forget that there is more to this game than just raiding (and yes, I'm in a raiding guild). </div><div> </div><div>As for me, I'm seriously considering the Wis & Agi lines.  The double attack percentage should offset any damage loss from one-handers, afterall, one-handers end up with great damage ratings, if you can dbl-atk even %50 of the time, you'll offset any DR loss.  Stats loss is a bit of a concern, I'd like to see something in the Wis line that off-sets the stat loss but I'm not going to cry over it.  If I *need* the stats I can always go dual-wield.  Anyoone who thinks the increased attack stills is useless needs to think again as well.</div><div> </div><div>It will be nice to see Swashies running around with different weapon sets, life was getting pretty stale when everyone had the same two dual wield weapons.</div>

[Redel]

<div></div><div>Hey Syrano,   what exactly will +36 to (agility level 5) slash, pierce, and range mean specifically to damage/dps?</div><p>Message Edited by Redelyn on <span class="date_text">02-17-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:05 AM</span></p>

[the flu]

It's not quite 100% accurate, but if you assume 5pts in a skill is about 1 level of effectiveness, 36 points checks your to hit at your level plus 6ish rather than your level (ie 66 instead of 60).It doens't quite work out exactly that way (6 levels was at one point the level difference at which a mob could not hit a tank, if I remember), but it works as a guide.<div></div>

[Krontak]

<div></div><p>I LOVE the lines.  All of them,  even the one hander ones.  There's been quite a few times I didn't want to wait around for a tank to get the xp group going.  Now, with these new taunts, increase defense and finally some incentive to use a shield, our utility was increased 10 fold if you ask me.  I'm excited about these changes...Bravo SOE!</p>

[Krontak]

<div></div>I might be missing something on the mechanics of these lines before I get too excited.  So, lets say you've got the INT line all maxed out, including the hate reducing abilities, and you've also got the STAMINA line maxed out, using a buckler with all of its aggro abilities, can you say shut off the INT line while tanking or what?

[Carna]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Krontak wrote:<div></div>I might be missing something on the mechanics of these lines before I get too excited.  So, lets say you've got the INT line all maxed out, including the hate reducing abilities, and you've also got the STAMINA line maxed out, using a buckler with all of its aggro abilities, can you say shut off the INT line while tanking or what?<hr></blockquote>It's like the whole matter/antimatter thing... you explode.... you do mad damage when you do though.

[Scort]

I have a couple of VERY good one handers and my attack rating is way lower using one handed over dual wield. SO, damage is lower, attack rating is lower, etc.That's why any scout using one handed is crippling themselves. It's just nothing near as good as dual wield. We are a dual wield class. That's a defining skill for our class.The only reason you would want to use a shield and one hander is for extra defense when soloing or tanking for a small group. Even then, it's iffy but, has made a difference in win or loose for me soling some certain stuff.

[AegisCrown]

<div>was reviewing the pics that agra made, i mean none of our lines are fantastic imo but take a look at the description of wisdom skill 5, it doesnt require offhand to be emtpy. just a side note</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Cuz]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Scortch wrote:I have a couple of VERY good one handers and my attack rating is way lower using one handed over dual wield. SO, damage is lower, attack rating is lower, etc.That's why any scout using one handed is crippling themselves. It's just nothing near as good as dual wield. We are a dual wield class. That's a defining skill for our class.<font color="#ff0000">The only reason you would want to use a shield and one hander is for extra defense when soloing or tanking for a small group.</font> Even then, it's iffy but, has made a difference in win or loose for me soling some certain stuff.<hr></blockquote>Or if you want to give your swash style and character. I know I'm going all 1 handed. I'm tired of being just like any other scout (less rangers).

[dagoo7]

<div></div>Anyone in beta able to confirm yet what the max proc rate is on unencumbrance is when the  full 8 points are invested?  Would consider going 1-h but not without knowing exactly what I'm getting into

[Jhaan-Kre]

<div></div>At lvl 66, i ts 66%....but i presume hte % is [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] near the same for all charactor lvls

[Keldo]

I like these AAs.  Most of the AA sets I have seen (at least for my other 2 characters - Brawler and Cleric) are extremely watered down type stuff.  Not much customization and even the weapon restricted things are poorly implimented more as an annoyance than anything.The rogue AAs, while not for everyone, at least offer customization of your character.  A rogue who likes to tank will love the stamina line.  A rogue that wants a little flash will enjoy the Wisdom line.  A raiding rogue can find a few things that are useful and others that may be excellent.  Overall I think its a great tree compared to the other two I've seen, which basically add small upgrades to existing playstyles, and offer no real customization.<div></div>

[Carna]

<div></div>Those hate reducers are huge for a Swashbuckler. I'm not sure their full implication for a Swashbuckler have been thought through. I'm not going to mention the full implications, because I don't play a Swashbuckler so I don't want to be accused of being an outsider causing trouble, but I do indeed forsee trouble down the line.

[Riktiktiche]

<div></div><p>ok Scortch you have made the same mistake most people do, attack rate has nothing to do with how well you hit youe enemy, it is a descriptive number on how good your autoattack is.</p><p>the following things will increase/decrease the number , attack skills str (damage) attackspeed and dps buffs, and ofcourse taking dualwields over 1-hander as the dualwields have a lot more damage, but if you parse the guy you miss the same amoutn with the one hander as the dual wields, just your damage is lower , attack rating is a description on how good your autoattack damage is</p><p>i know the name is misleading as so many games use attackrate or similar to describe how accurate you are, but not EQ2</p><p>staff</p>

[Keldo]

How are they huge for a swash and not a brigand?  As it stands now Swashbucklers have next to zero aggro issues.  I can't remember last time I got aggro on a raid other than when I was doing something stupid like not assisting ~<div></div>

[overfloat]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Syrano wrote:<div> </div><div>As for me, I'm seriously considering the Wis & Agi lines.  The double attack percentage should offset any damage loss from one-handers, afterall, one-handers end up with great damage ratings, if you can dbl-atk even %50 of the time, you'll offset any DR loss. <hr></div></blockquote><p>I've been poring over the new lineups on and off during the day. Despite the complete loss of an offhand weapon, the WIS line really is the "pure" DPS branch with the least utility. The whole concept of that line attracted me but initially -- how swashbuckler-ish is it to be the "I'm too d*mned good to need a second weapon", flamboyant, gentlemanly duellist? It fits our subclass perfectly. I prefer to dual-wield a rapier and offhand dagger anyway, just for the whole style of it. Much more the highwayman/duellist type swashbuckler than the pirate type. Initially the lack of offhand completely put me off; but these latest changes are tugging me back towards it.</p><p> </p><p>Something dawned on me earlier, though, and it's been bugging me. Really bugging me. And it's a content issue, not a bug or balance issue.</p><p>Look at the WIS line. One weapon. No offhand parrying dagger, no shield, no dual-wielding of identical weapons. This is a fencer's setup. What other Western swordfighting styles have ever emphasized the use of a <u>single</u>, one-handed weapon and left the offhand completely empty and unused? This was obviously the concept behind the WIS line from the start. Look at the new descriptions: the character is even referred to as "the Fencer" now.</p><p>What is the fencer's weapon? The rapier (or epee or sabre, all classed under the "rapier" skill in EQ2). Obviously. You wouldn't even contemplate anything else.</p><p><em><strong>How many one-handed rapiers are there in EQ2?</strong></em></p><p>Er... well, I'll admit I haven't seen every uber item drop in EQ2 but, without exception, every crafted rapier is dual-wield. In fact, do a search on the EQ2Players website (for 'rapier', 'epee' and 'sabre') and you'll find there's only <u>one</u> 1H weapon that is classified as a rapier (Thorny rapier). It's possible there are others that use unique names but, obviously, these are uncommon... if they exist at all. I certainly don't remember ever seeing a 1H rapier in the last 60 levels and 15 months of playing EQ2.</p><p>So here's the thing, duellists, highwaymen, and gentleman rogues of Norrath. With the new AAs you can be a fencer. However, you will have to fence with a machete or a butter knife. Swords or daggers. No 1H rapiers for j00! Kind of kills the whole charm of the branch concept, doesn't it? Not to mention it borks the use of AGI.1 with the WIS line.</p><p>Think there's any hope we'll see a sudden influx of 1H rapiers for all level ranges? Me neither. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>(Swiftwhisper from PPR is the only other potential candidate I know of, though I'm not 100% sure how it's classed as a weapon.)</p><p> </p>

[Carna]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Keldoth wrote:How are they huge for a swash and not a brigand?  As it stands now Swashbucklers have next to zero aggro issues.  I can't remember last time I got aggro on a raid other than when I was doing something stupid like not assisting ~<div></div><hr></blockquote>Because Brigands dont have an ability that gets faster and faster, generating more and more hate until they are hit.... There's an AA there that has a chance per hit to drop you two places on the hit list. That combined with the AA hate reduction % and existing Swashie hate transfer and reduction and you'd have to go a long way before you pulled aggro... a long way.

[DorrianBloodsto]

<div><blockquote><hr>Carnagh wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Keldoth wrote:How are they huge for a swash and not a brigand?  As it stands now Swashbucklers have next to zero aggro issues.  I can't remember last time I got aggro on a raid other than when I was doing something stupid like not assisting ~<div></div><hr></blockquote>Because Brigands dont have an ability that gets faster and faster, generating more and more hate until they are hit.... There's an AA there that has a chance per hit to drop you two places on the hit list. That combined with the AA hate reduction % and existing Swashie hate transfer and reduction and you'd have to go a long way before you pulled aggro... a long way.<hr></blockquote>Neither do Swashbucklers, our Haste/Aggro line has never stacked like the spell description states it should.</div>

[Carna]

<div></div>Realy?...How does it work? I'm just basing the idea from what the spell description reads and thinking with significant hate reduction and hate list position dropping it could get quite wild.

[Luk]

<div></div>a second proc on bravado line resets the timer, no added benefit

[the flu]

Acourding to the haste number on the persona window, I've seen two bravdo procs stack (that is, increase the combat speed (haste?) feild. The feild will show you over the cap of 100%, so if it is a true measure of your haste is anyones guess.<div></div>

[dagoo7]

<div>Still trying to figure out how wise it is to go wisdom line and did some very rough calculations based on max proc rate of 66% on unencumbrance and slightly higher average dps of 1-h over duel wield.  According to my very unscientific calculations it appeats that only after putting full 8 pts into unencumbrance does 1-h damage begin to fully make up for loss of 2nd dual wield weapon in terms of autoattack dps (actually appears to generally still be slightly lower than dual wield).  Based on this, not sure if this is really worth it.</div><div> </div><div>Anyone with more of a mathematical/statistical background run the numbers on this yet?</div>

[AegisCrown]

<div></div><p>another 1 hander, Avenging Cutlass  18 str 20 sta 70hp 70pp +5 piercing 60.4 DR</p><p> </p>

[Keldo]

Yeah as stated, bravado over writes itself as opposed to stacking infinitely.  Swashbucklers WOULD have an aggro problem if bravado stacked like it says it does, either that or they would be supremely annoyed with clicking off extra procs all the time.<div></div>

[Scort]

<blockquote><hr>Keldoth wrote:How are they huge for a swash and not a brigand?  As it stands now Swashbucklers have next to zero aggro issues.  I can't remember last time I got aggro on a raid other than when I was doing something stupid like not assisting ~<div></div><hr></blockquote>I don't know where you raid but MANY Swashbucklers have agro issues. Just because you don't, doesn't mean we all don't. You must not be raiding in the high end zones much.Agro is STILL a major issue for Swashbucklers, especially after the 2nd hand proc changes.<p>Message Edited by Scortch on <span class="date_text">02-18-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:04 PM</span></p>

[Keldo]

<div></div>I raid high end (well minus PoS/Djinn Master) and don't have aggro issues.  But, we have troubadors, and I use aggro leech.  If you don't have those, I could see where you may have an issue.I also play a brigand fairly often, and it is at least 3 times easier for a brig to grab aggro compared to a Swash.  On a swash you can auto pilot any yellow mob, oranges you actually have to pay attention to evades and slips.  On a brigand its much tougher, especially minus a troubador or other hate decreaser.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Keldoth on <span class="date_text">02-18-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:04 PM</span></p>

[overfloat]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>dagoo7 wrote:<div>Still trying to figure out how wise it is to go wisdom line and did some very rough calculations based on max proc rate of 66% on unencumbrance and slightly higher average dps of 1-h over duel wield.  According to my very unscientific calculations it appeats that only after putting full 8 pts into unencumbrance does 1-h damage begin to fully make up for loss of 2nd dual wield weapon in terms of autoattack dps (actually appears to generally still be slightly lower than dual wield).  Based on this, not sure if this is really worth it.</div><div> </div><div>Anyone with more of a mathematical/statistical background run the numbers on this yet?</div><hr></blockquote><p>Not me, but I have the same concerns about the WIS line, and have left feedback on the beta forums about it.</p><p>Essentially, swapping out two DW weapons for a single 1H weapon (and empty offhand) <u>immediately</u> drops your DPS. Therefore, if you're planning to use the WIS line, you start out at a <em>dis</em>advantage. There's something of a breakdown in the logic behind the WIS line here. By the end of the WIS line, you'll almost undoubtedly have higher average DPS than you would by maxing any other single branch. However... in the meantime, you're stuck.</p><p>The Rank1 of the WIS.2 skill (the first WIS combat AA) is obviously not going to immediately compensate for the loss of DPS from DW--->1H. So it seems likely that there will actually be no benefit to the WIS branch until you've invested a <em>significant </em>number of points in the various offensive WIS AAs. There's going to be an extended period of AA "lag" while you invest points before you actually reap any benefits from the WIS branch. We'd need either a statistician or a whole stack of parses to tell us exactly where the "turning point" occurs, exactly how many points you need in which WIS AAs before your investment pays off and compensates for the lack of offhand weapon.</p><p>A soloing swashbuckler or ghetto-tank in a duo or small group may reap DPS benefits earlier, because they'll experience a far greater number of defensive maneuvres <font size="1">(ripostes, parries, blocks, deflections)</font> from the front arc of the mob, meaning WIS.2 (Lunge Reversal) will be that much more effective for them. Raiding swashbucklers a those not playing tank in regular groups will have get far less benefit from WIS.2, meaning they'll either have to get a my higher Rank in WIS.2 before their DPS compensates for the missing offhand weapon or, very possibly, their DPS won't even match up to DW until they have a few Ranks in WIS.4. This could mean a <strong>huge </strong>investment of AA points before the WIS line is actually beneficial for most swashbucklers. The final maxed-out WIS branch may look nice, but remember that you could well have several weeks/months of grinding out those AAs before you ever get any benefit from it, compared to the other AA branches which are pretty much insta-reward.</p><p>The best suggestion I can make with the current lineup of AAs is that WIS.4 needs to be swapped with WIS.2. The WIS branch needs its main DPS compensation (undoubtedly Unencumbrance) <u>earlier</u>, not later. Lunge Reversal, the "bonus" damage, can come later. I'm not sure why people investing in the WIS line need to be penalised for the first <em>x</em> number of ranks and/or skills before they are able benefit from their points.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote><hr>AegisCrown wrote:<div></div><p>another 1 hander, Avenging Cutlass  18 str 20 sta 70hp 70pp +5 piercing 60.4 DR</p><hr></blockquote><p>Thanks Coel, you just pointed me in the right direction.  It gets worse... <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> heh.</p><p> </p><p>It seems there <strong>is</strong> a 1H weapon across all level ranges based on the "rapier" skill: Cutlass.  Well, in terms of mechanics I guess that's good -- at least we can use AGI.2 with the WIS line. In terms of content, though, that's just horrible for several reasons.</p><blockquote dir="ltr"><p>1) A "Fencer" pursuing the WIS branch now has, as their choice of weapons: swords, daggers, and cutlasses. None of those are traditional fencing weapons.</p><p>2) Cutlass? Argh. As if I didn't have enough trouble being called a d*mned pirate already. :smileymad: Cutlasses are for pirates. They're basically short swords, great for close-quarters combat and utility (cutting through heavy ropes) -- perfect for a sailor. For a fencer? No.</p><p>3) Cutlass as a rapier?! No! The cutlass is designed as a <u>slashing</u> weapon, not a piercing weapon. It's short, thick, broad-bladed and <u>curved</u>. It bears a resemblance to a sabre <font color="#cccccc"><font size="1">(the sabre traditionally <u>is</u> a mix of pierce/slash used more like a sword, but is regarded and implemented as a piercing weapon in modern fencing... hence EQ2 classifies it as piercing, under "rapier&quot<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font> </font>but is designed to be used more like a frickin' machete or falchion, for hacking and slashing with the slightly curved blade. This is where EQ2's mechanics have it wrong. Cutlasses should be 1H slash, classified as a sword... <u>not</u> 1H pierce, classified as a rapier.</p><p>4) Fencing is based on skill and swordsmanship. The whole idea behind using a single rapier without an offhand parrying dagger is that the fencer is skilled enough with the one weapon to compensate for the lack of second weapon. The rapier is a precision weapon. That's the concept behind the WIS branch. So why are cutlasses classified as rapiers? Cutlasses required far less skill and training than rapiers, hence they became favourites of sailors and infantry. It's all about hack and slash, not precision, pretty much the antithesis of the rapier. SOE kinda misclassified the cutlass in EQ2.</p></blockquote><p>I'd really love to see some "true" 1H rapiers -- you know, using the sexy rapier graphic -- turn up in game.</p>

[AegisCrown]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Scortch wrote:<blockquote><hr>Keldoth wrote:How are they huge for a swash and not a brigand?  As it stands now Swashbucklers have next to zero aggro issues.  I can't remember last time I got aggro on a raid other than when I was doing something stupid like not assisting ~<div></div><hr></blockquote>I don't know where you raid but MANY Swashbucklers have agro issues. Just because you don't, doesn't mean we all don't. You must not be raiding in the high end zones much.Agro is STILL a major issue for Swashbucklers, especially after the 2nd hand proc changes.<p></p><hr></blockquote><p>I have to agree with keldoth on this. </p><p>Im a raiding swashbuckler everything but PoS and DMP successfully atm and i <strong>dont</strong> have aggro problems.  Unless your being stupid or maybe forgetting to use your detaunt proc well then your stupid. </p><p>oh and to give you an idea im a 60 swash, w/ 400 str, and nearly fully mastered, just be smart.</p><p>And on a sidenote the cutlass is honestly my favorite weapon when my brigand got the like lvl 21 fabled dw cutlass i was thrilled!</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p>

[Severed Ha]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>overfloater wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><p>Ehhh... haven't been able to log into beta the last couple of days. Some major changes since then (still reading over it myself):</p><p><a target="_blank" href="http://oz.cx/eq2/kos-beta-brigand-achievements-20060216.png">KoS Beta Rogue Achievements 02/16/06</a></p><p><font size="1">(huge picture, 56k users beware -- courtesy of Agra <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )</font></p><p> </p><p>PS: don't forget to refer to the "Rank" (no. of points spent) when comparing stats to previous incarnations</p><p>PPS: notice they've added "class type" names to the skills in each branch: Blackguard, Pirate, Mercenary, Fencer, Thief. I wonder if this might not be in response to feedback someone left on the beta forums to have titles associated with obtaining max rank in a particular branch... Sadly, I like "Fencer", but the WIS line still puts me off.</p><p>PPPS: Check out "Walk the Plank" -- this is <em>exactly </em>the effect that someone suggested in a thread here a month or so ago, when we were throwing out random ideas for T7 combat arts. Congratulations! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>PPPPS: yes, in its current incarnation it looks like "Lunge Reversal" is about 400 times better than En Garde....  expect that to get changed!</p><p>PPPPPS:  any more P's and I think I should just edit this into paragraphs instead...</p><p>Message Edited by overfloater on <span class="date_text">02-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:30 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>Is the link in this post up to date currently as I see there are differences in the original post and the above link.  Some good some bad.. But understandable that they are still tweaking things.  Just wanted to know that way can start figuring out what and where to put AA points when I start getting them.</p><p>Was thinking something like this... Gonna go Single 1-handed wpn.  Nothing in off hand and still go with the Wisdom line mainly with the left overs in Strength.</p><p>So...</p><p>4 in the base(Pickpocket)</p><p>4 Wis1, 4 Wis2, 4 Wis3, 8 Wis4 8 Wis5</p><p>4 Str1, 4 Str2, 4 Str3, 6 Str4.</p><p>Dont know off hand on how much of an actual increase you get per point also.  But figure according to the link up there If you max out Wis4(Unencumberence) you will basically dbl attack just about all the time.  Then also add in the Str line and pump up the Crit chance as much as you can for added damage there.  The Ripost and the Defense are added to the whole thing for a nice mix.  Also with the last part in Wisdom line the 36 to Slash, Pierce and Range will help out tons also in ability to land a hit better/easier. </p><p>Message Edited by Severed Hand on <span class="date_text">02-19-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:32 AM</span></p>

[Cuz]

<div>I think you can only put 1 point in the base skill.</div><div> </div><div>I'll probably go all in wis and agility. However I figure I'll wait til I get around 16 points in wis before I start going 1 handed.</div>

[Keyh]

<div><span>What I don't like is Wis used to increase defenses as well. Now it doesn't. Sure you have the 8% Riposte/Parry. But I'd prefer having some hardcoded avoidance increases as well. Take out the Lunge Reversal, which was a horrid idea since it's the same as our En Garde  and put in some kind of +parry.</span></div>

[Krontak]

<div></div><p>A couple things about these AA's.  I hope they don't fool around with them too much after release.  Once those AA points are spent it'll take a bit of time to build up more! </p><p>Also, I don't understand how these skills function.  For instance, you've got INT.3 evasiveness right.  Will somehting like this continue to kick in while you're trying to tank or can this be shut off?  Would it negate all your taunting?</p>

[Severed Ha]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Krontak wrote:<div></div><p>A couple things about these AA's.  I hope they don't fool around with them too much after release.  Once those AA points are spent it'll take a bit of time to build up more! </p><p>Also, I don't understand how these skills function.  For instance, you've got INT.3 evasiveness right.  Will somehting like this continue to kick in while you're trying to tank or can this be shut off?  Would it negate all your taunting?</p><hr></blockquote><p>I think it will be like a Standard casted Buff in the case of the Int3 Evasiveness.  As it says it is up till cancelled.  So basically Think it will be a Toggleble spell/ability.  Some of the abilitys may be just like Racial Traits such as the % Crit chance increase where this is always on and can not be toggled.</p><p>Also If you can only put one point into the first skill then Guess I can max out my Crit chance. hehe.  Then the last point Ill probly just throw into what ever at the time.  May put into one of the skill alreay have or just put it into a stat one.</p>

[Severed Ha]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Jenoy wrote:<div>I think you can only put 1 point in the base skill.</div><div> </div><div>I'll probably go all in wis and agility. However I figure I'll wait til I get around 16 points in wis before I start going 1 handed.</div><hr></blockquote>I looked at taking the wis and agility line also myself at first but then also read others comments on how many "rapier" type wpns there are out there and on top of that .. how many "rapier" "one-handers" there are.  Its been my understanding that if you use a Duel Wield wpn and nothing in the other hand then you will take a worse drop in DPS then if you just used a One handed weapon in its place.  If anyone knows for sure on this please feel free to say different if it is.

[Scort]

I do know how to play my class and yes I do use detaunts everytime they pop.We raid PoS, PP2, ToL, GoAA, Prism, Al'Afaz, etc. There isn't a zone we don't raid. It may be mobs in these zones get [Removed for Content] a little easier.I still not sure which line I will go with. I don't care for the wis line. We are dual wielders. Certain weapons being required is just lame to me. I agree with wis4 and wis2 needing ot be reversed.I bet they will be making modifications to AAs 6 months from now, knowing SOE.<p>Message Edited by Scortch on <span class="date_text">02-19-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:57 PM</span></p>

[Severed Ha]

<blockquote>Not that it matters.. But I have been looking all over the place to find out exactly what a Swashbuckler is...  So far this is what I have come up with...</blockquote><p>From... <a target="_blank" href="http://quizilla.com/users/Dawg/quizzes/What%20Type%20Of%20Swashbuckler%20Are%20You%3F">http://quizilla.com/users/Dawg/quizzes/What%20Type%20Of%20Swashbuckler%20Are%20You%3F</a> (although it doesnt say off hand... I think this is just a general discription from another game.. Most likely D&D)</p><p>These rogues tend towards a chivalric and pompous lifestyle, and may be of any Lawful alignment, but oftentimes, not. The average swashbuckler will be found wearing fancy clothing, including hats with plumage. They tend to prefer one-handed swords, favoring first the Cutlass, then a Scimitar, and finally, the Longsword. To a man (or a woman), they disdain the use of shields in combat, preferring either a single sword or a sword and dagger(Main Gauche) when fighting florentine. Swashbucklers may opt to use on non-weapon proficiency slot to effect a quick draw and ready move.</p><p>From... <a target="_blank" href="http://www.m-w.com/">www.m-w.com</a></p><p></p>swashbuckler<p>One entry found for <b>swashbuckler</b>.</p><p>Main Entry: <b>swash·buck·ler</b> <a target="_blank" href=""></a>Pronunciation: -"b&-kl&rFunction: <i>noun</i>Etymology: <i>1</i>swash + buckler<b>1</b> <b>:</b> a swaggering or daring soldier or adventurer<b>2</b> <b>:</b> a novel or drama dealing with a swashbuckler</p><p>From.. <a target="_blank" href="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=swashbuckler">http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=swashbuckler</a></p>2 entries found for <i>swashbuckler</i>.<p><!-- begin ahd4 --><!-- google_ad_region_start=def --></p><b>swash·buck·ler</b> <i>n.</i><ol><li>A flamboyant swordsman or adventurer.</li><li>A sword-wielding ruffian or bully.</li><li>A dramatic or literary work dealing with a swashbuckler.</li></ol><p><b>swashbuckler</b></p><p>n : a reckless impetuous irresponsible person [syn: <a target="_blank" href="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=daredevil"><font color="#0033ff">daredevil</font></a>, <a target="_blank" href="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=madcap"><font color="#0033ff">madcap</font></a>, <a target="_blank" href="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=hothead"><font color="#0033ff">hothead</font></a>, <a target="_blank" href="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=lunatic"><font color="#0033ff">lunatic</font></a>, <a target="_blank" href="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=harum-scarum"><font color="#0033ff">harum-scarum</font></a>]</p><p>And lastly... <a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swashbuckler">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swashbuckler</a></p><p><b>Swashbuckler</b> is a term that came about in the <a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/16th_century">16th century</a> and was applied to rough, noisy and boastful <a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sword">swordsmen</a>. To <i>swash</i> is to "swagger and swing about, making a lot of noise", and a <i><a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckler">buckler</a></i> is a shield. The <a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_character">stock character</a> <a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Miles_Glorioso&action=edit">Miles Glorioso</a> is a swashbuckler.</p><p>Many films, even ones made today, still show swashbuckling, such as <i><a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Count_of_Monte_Cristo">The Count of Monte Cristo</a></i>, <i><a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirates_of_the_Caribbean:_The_Curse_of_the_Black_P earl">Pirates Of The Caribbean</a></i>, and <i><a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mask_of_Zorro">The Mask of Zorro</a></i>.</p><p>This showiness is particularly appropriate as regards stage fighting, which has more in common with the art of <a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fencing">fencing</a>, where the fighting is a stylized form originally used to teach the principles of actual dueling, while real sword fighting aims at bodily harm.</p><p>The swashbuckler is also a type of men's shirt. It is usually white in color, with an open neck and chest with a lace up front.</p><p> </p><p>Well.. From those 3 Discriptions seems like they are getting as close to what they can it seems with different types of Swashbucklers.  Oh.. By the way.. None of the discriptions actually state that we are Duel Wielders by nature.  Can we duel wield Yes... Are we suppose to.. Not neccassarly.  Its all a matter of personal choice and personal perspective on these characters.  Over all though the general thing is... Diversity.  Try to remove some of the Cookie Cutter mold and make more like 3 or 4 differnt Cookie Cutter Molds.  That way everyone can play a style they are more use to.</p><p> </p><p>Oh.. As for Wis4 and Wis 2 being Reversed.. No.. Never gonna happen I would have to say.  I believe they put Wis4 Unencumberance there for that simple fact that its a very powerful skill... Adding a chance to Double attack with every attack is something that would take someone very well trained to do.  As for Wis2 being the Reversal abiliy thats something that alot of combat arts already try to do anyways.. If you block, Parry, dodge or what not you find an opening and counter attack.  Basically this abiltiy is just that and puts your character into a state that they become more aware of the oppenents weak spots... but at the same time leaving them open at the same time due to them being so focused on this fact.</p><!-- google_ad_region_end=def --><p>Message Edited by Severed Hand on <span class="date_text">02-19-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:32 PM</span></p>

[Mion da Peon]

<div></div><p>I'm not sure if <u>cutlasses</u> count as rapiers but I'm pretty sure <u>foils</u> do.  A nice one called swiftwhisper drops in PPR off the first guy.</p><p>swiftwhisper : 57.4 dmg rating 18 str 20 agl 60 health 60 mana + 2 to piercing (legendary)</p><p>I have also been mulling about the usefulness of swiftsail.  Basically it'll let you get off all your skills in 3/4s the time that you normally do would. It also allows for about a ~2 second recast reduction spread over all the timers.  The only place I see this skill being any real use is during dive bomb 10 second "in" calls on raids.  Right now it seems a bit weak for a level 5 skill.  I think it would be more better if casting timers were also cut in half delivering the same amount of CAs in 1/2 the time.</p>

[overfloat]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Mion da Peon wrote:<div></div><p>I'm not sure if <u>cutlasses</u> count as rapiers but I'm pretty sure <u>foils</u> do.  A nice one called swiftwhisper drops in PPR off the first guy.</p><hr></blockquote><p>According to the EQ2P database, cutlasses use the "rapier" skill and are all 1H. Rapiers, epees and sabres use the "rapier" skill but are all (with just one or two exceptions) DW.</p><p>Good call on foils, though, I'd forgotten they even existed. According to EQ2P, foils are indeed all 1H and use the "rapier" skill -- and they should share the rapier graphic, too, unlike cutlasses and sabres. Unfortunately there are very few foils in-game as they all seem to be drops, not crafted.</p><p> </p><blockquote><hr>Severed Hand wrote:<p>Well.. From those 3 Discriptions seems like they are getting as close to what they can it seems with different types of Swashbucklers.  Oh.. By the way.. None of the discriptions actually state that we are Duel Wielders by nature.  Can we duel wield Yes... Are we suppose to.. Not neccassarly.  Its all a matter of personal choice and personal perspective on these characters.  Over all though the general thing is... Diversity.  Try to remove some of the Cookie Cutter mold and make more like 3 or 4 differnt Cookie Cutter Molds.  That way everyone can play a style they are more use to.</p><hr><p></p></blockquote><p>Yes, the Devs are trying to assign a "flavour" to each AA branch, both in terms of combat mechanics and in terms of content/roleplay/image/however you want to view it. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Notice the labels assigned to each branch: Blackguard (STR), Pirate (AGI), Mercenary (STA), Fencer (WIS), Thief (INT). I actually think the Devs did a really nice job of building these different branch themes, rather than just having a generic mass of boring AAs. It's really to preserve and encourage that spark of creativity that I'm pursuing and /feedbacking these content issues about weapon types! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>"Swashbuckler" usually conjures up an images of pirates, but there have been plenty of discussions on this forum about different types of swashbucklers, to try to break the "Arrrr matey" mould <font size="1">(though remember these are actually rogue AAs, not just for swashbucklers)</font>. The most popular are still the pirate/sailor type and the highwayman/musketeer/fencer type. The pirates are generally associated with cutlasses, whereas the musketeers and fencers are associated with rapiers, which is why I find it odd that the AGI line specifically requires a rapier, whereas the WIS line -- which is themed on fencers, whose preferred weapon is the rapier -- end up using swords, daggers or cutlasses (which are mislabelled as rapiers in the game mechanics). A fencer using a cutlass is just wrong, let alone a sword or dagger. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> But true rapiers are DW and foils are only dropped (and uncommonly, at that), meaning that most WIS fencers will end up having to use a weapon that <em>totally </em>doesn't fit the AA branch "theme". It's a pretty minor complaint, but still... <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> </p><blockquote><hr>Krontak wrote:<div></div><p>A couple things about these AA's.  I hope they don't fool around with them too much after release.  Once those AA points are spent it'll take a bit of time to build up more!</p><hr></blockquote><p>Once the system goes live, there should be a system to refund and re-spend points. I don't think the system just wipes them out, it should refund them into your pool. Unfortunately the refund system isn't on beta so I can't say for sure.</p><p> </p><blockquote><p></p><hr>For instance, you've got INT.3 evasiveness right.  Will somehting like this continue to kick in while you're trying to tank or can this be shut off?  Would it negate all your taunting?<hr></blockquote><p>Very good point, this totally slipped by me until agra mentioned it on the beta forums. Notice Evasiveness is currently labelled as a passive effect, meaning that- yes - it's always on and cannot be toggled off. So yes, it would work against you if you were trying to play ghetto tank, and effectively negates much of the STA line. Feedback has been left on beta to have this switched to a toggle -- we already have enough incompatible AAs to add another one to the list needlessly!</p><p> </p><blockquote><hr>Keyh wrote:<div><span>What I don't like is Wis used to increase defenses as well. Now it doesn't. Sure you have the 8% Riposte/Parry. But I'd prefer having some hardcoded avoidance increases as well. Take out the Lunge Reversal, which was a horrid idea since it's the same as our En Garde  and put in some kind of +parry.</span><hr></div></blockquote><p>Yeah, the riposte/parry buff is more to fit with the "theme" of the WIS branch than for functionality, I feel. And I'm not in a position to test, sadly, but I have a nasty feeling Lunge Reversal is not going to stack with En Garde, meaning it renders our one Marque ability for this expansion utterly useless. There are <u>so</u> many stacking/incompatibility issues with our AAs, it's not even funny.</p><p> </p><p>FYI, there have been further changes to the AAs; mainly tweaks rather than wholesale changes, but probably enough to change your perspective on a few skills. Agra's done another awesome job of transcribing it to the forums, so I'll see if I can't copy it here.</p>

[Carna]

<div></div><p>I think people are getting locked in on a very very narrow defination of fencing based upon the martial combat style in Western Europe which went on to become the sport.</p><p>Taken from <a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fencing">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fencing</a></p><p><em>In the broadest possible sense, <b>fencing</b> is the art and science of armed combat involving cutting, stabbing or bludgeoning weapons directly manipulated by hand, rather than shot or thrown (in other words, </em><a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sword"><em>swords</em></a><em>, </em><a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knife"><em>knives</em></a><em>, </em><a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pike_%28weapon%29"><em>pikes</em></a><em>, </em><a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayonet"><em>bayonets</em></a><em>, </em><a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baton"><em>batons</em></a><em>, </em><a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Club_%28weapon%29"><em>clubs</em></a><em>, and so on). In contemporary common usage, <b>fencing</b> tends to refer specifically to European schools of swordsmanship and to the modern </em><a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_Games"><em>Olympic</em></a><em> sport that has evolved out of them.</em></p><p>There's no problem with with fencing encompassing styles of combat that don't narrowly focus rapiers, epées, foils or sabres. There's no conflict at all.</p><p>Note from the same article...</p><p><em>In both its modern and its classical guise, fencing consists of three different weapons: </em><a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foil_%28sword%29"><em>foil</em></a><em>, </em><a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89p%C3%A9e"><em>épée</em></a><em> and </em><a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabre"><em>sabre</em></a><em>. These three weapons had become standard by the late nineteenth century and all are represented at Olympic-level competition. Additionally, in classical academies, one will often find </em><a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_fencing"><em>historical fencing</em></a><em> weapons, such as </em><a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_canne"><em>canne</em></a><em>, </em><a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A2ton_fran%C3%A7ais"><em>bâton</em></a><em>, </em><a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main-gauche"><em>main-gauche</em></a><em> or </em><a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapier"><em>rapier</em></a><em> and </em><a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagger"><em>dagger</em></a><em>, being taught.</em></p><p>There's no problem here with fencing as outlined in the AAs.</p>

[Luk]

<div></div>I want my belaying pin, could be done as a rogue specific crushing weapon <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[overfloat]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Carnagh wrote:<div></div><p><em>In the broadest possible sense...</em></p><p>There's no problem with with fencing encompassing styles of combat that don't narrowly focus rapiers, epées, foils or sabres. There's no conflict at all.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Ok, sure, if you take it "in the broadest possible sense" it means armed combat with sharp stuff. Heck, by that definition you could have a "fencer" with a six-foot, two-handed, double-bladed axe... but that doesn't really fit the "swashbuckler" or "rogue" concept. I'm sure Kendo is considered fencing, but I don't see that fitting so well in EQ2. No, semantics aside, that's not what the Devs are aiming for with the "fencer" theme.</p><p> </p><blockquote dir="ltr"><hr>Note from the same article...<p><em>In both its modern and its classical guise, fencing consists of three different weapons: </em><a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foil_%28sword%29"><em>foil</em></a><em>, </em><a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89p%C3%A9e"><em>épée</em></a><em> and </em><a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabre"><em>sabre</em></a><em>. These three weapons had become standard by the late nineteenth century and all are represented at Olympic-level competition. Additionally, in classical academies, one will often find </em><a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_fencing"><em>historical fencing</em></a><em> weapons, such as </em><a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_canne"><em>canne</em></a><em>, </em><a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A2ton_fran%C3%A7ais"><em>bâton</em></a><em>, </em><a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main-gauche"><em>main-gauche</em></a><em> or </em><a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapier"><em>rapier</em></a><em> and </em><a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagger"><em>dagger</em></a><em>, being taught.</em></p><p>There's no problem here with fencing as outlined in the AAs.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Not sure where you were going with this... Ok, the <a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_canne"><em>canne</em></a><em></em> and <a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A2ton_fran%C3%A7ais"><em>bâton</em></a> are basically sticks. You can imagine the kind of reception those would get in EQ2. And you can't use a main-gauche or dagger when you're unable to dual-wield, sooo...  that leaves us with the rapier.</p><p>The WIS branch is going for the musketeer / highwayman / duellist theme associated with rapier fencing. That's borne out by the skills.</p><p>There's the lack of offhand weapon: a style associated with rapier fencing because it flourished during the 16th and 17th centuries, when rapiers were the fencing weapon of choice <font size="1">(also per your Wikipedia article: "This gave rise to sixteenth- and seventeenth-century systems of using the </font><a target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapier"><font size="1">rapier</font></a><font size="1">" )</font>. Then you have the mention of the lunge, popularised during the same period, associated with rapiers due to their long reach and emphasis on thrusting over cutting -- you don't lunge with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon. Then there's Unencumberance, which allows double attacks, mirroring the double-time fighting of later rapier fencing. The final skill is Coule, a fencing term still in modern use and, notably, of French origin... how much more Western Europe, Renaissance, rapier fencing can you get? <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Really, regardless of the "broadest possible" definition of fencing, the WIS line is themed around the "traditional" idea of rapier fencing. Just look at the other lines: you have the blackguard, the typical brigand. The pirate, a swashbuckler favourite. Mercenary, a generic, rough-around-the-edges "rogue" who'll take a few hits for the team. Then the thief, the purse-snatching, backstabbing sneak that the initial EQ2 concept of rogues seemed to be leaning towards -- not quite an assassin, but sneaky all the same. Then you have the fencer, the skilled musketeer-esque highwayman type -- take a look around the swashbuckler forum and you'll see a pretty even split in the numbers of people who regard themselves as "pirate" swashbucklers and "musketeer" swashbucklers. That's where SOE is going with the WIS line.</p><p> </p><p>I can't believe I just wrote all that at this hour of the morning...</p><p> </p><p><font size="1">Edit: can't spell</font></p><p>Message Edited by overfloater on <span class="date_text">02-20-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:33 AM</span></p>

[GeneralChaos]

<div></div>Just a thought on the wisdom line. If both the hits from unencumberance are counted as mainhand hits and are able to proc this line could well be worth it as offhand doesnt proc.

[AegisCrown]

<div></div><div></div><div>good call Nic, and with a 66% to double attack at rank 8 it could be decent</div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by AegisCrown on <span class="date_text">02-20-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:45 AM</span></p>

[Cuz]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>AegisCrown wrote:<div></div><div></div><div>good call Nic, and with a 66% to double attack at rank 8 it could be decent</div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by AegisCrown on <span class="date_text">02-20-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:45 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I wonder if skills like this are affected by the new proc change?

[Severed Ha]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>AegisCrown wrote:<div></div><div></div><div>good call Nic, and with a 66% to double attack at rank 8 it could be decent</div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by AegisCrown on <span class="date_text">02-20-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:45 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>Cool.  Been wondering what % it would be at Rank 8.  Asked in game a few times and got no response.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>With that % I will def go with my spec of Str 4-4-5-8 and Wis 4-4-4-8-8.</p>

[Krakenap]

<div></div><p>Latest update:  - Thank you very very much Agra</p><p>Brigand / Swashbuckler Achievements, Beta, 20060219Root Ability: Pick Pocket</p><hr><font color="#ff0000"><b>Strength Branch - Level 1</b><i>Blackguard's Strength</i> Increases the Blackguard's strength. Passive Spell.Rank4: STR +16. Rank5: STR +20. Rank8: STR +32.<b>Strength Branch - Level 2</b><i>Torporous Strike</i> A melee sword attack that reduces the target's chances of any critical damage or heals. 30sec duration, 30sec recast. Requires sword equipped in Primary.Rank4: 213-356 dmg. Decreases crit %'s by 4.2%. Rank5: 4.8% Rank8: 6.0%<b>Strength Branch - Level 3</b><i>Blackguard's Defense</i> Increases the Blackguard's defense skill. Passive Spell.Rank4: Defense +12.7 Rank5: +15.9 Rank8: 25<b>Strength Branch - Level 4</b><i>Blackguard's Luck</i> Increases the Blackguard's chances at critical melee damage. Passive Spell.Rank4: Increases melee Crit Chance by 7.0% Rank5: 8.7% Rank8: 13.9%<b>Strength Branch - level 5</b><i>Traumatic Swipe</i> Increases Recast Timers of target by 50%. 1 minute duration. 2 minute recast. Must be flanking or behind.Rank1: 358-597 dmg, Recast timers of target increase 50%.</font><hr><font color="#00cc00"><b>Agility Branch - Level 1</b><i>Pirate's Agility</i> Increases the Pirate's agility. Passive Spell.Rank4: AGI +20. Rank5: AGI +25. Rank8: AGI +40.<b>Agility Branch - Level 2</b><i>Walk the Plank</i> A melee rapier attack that causes the target to turn around for a short duration. 30 sec recast. Rapier required in Primary.Rank4: 83-138 dmg, 2.0 sec duration. Rank5: 95-158 dmg, 2.4 sec. Rank8: 118-198, 3.0 sec.<b>Agility Branch - Level 3</b><i>Commandeer</i> Increases in-combat movement speed. Passive Spell.Rank4: 5% Rank5: 6.2% Rank8: 10%<b>Agility Branch - Level 4</b><i>Avast Ye</i> Permanent dmg proc buff. Passive Spell. Must be Flanking or Behind.Rank4: 8% Chance to cast Pirate Stab, 117-196 piercing dmg. Rank5: 10% chance, same dmg. Rank8: 16% chance, same dmg.<b>Agility Branch - Level 5</b><i>Sailwind</i> Reduces Recovery and Casting timers of all abilities.Rank1: Reduces Recovery and Casting timers of caster by 25%. (0.5 -> 0.4)</font><hr><font color="#ffff00"><b>Stamina Branch - Level 1</b><i>Mercenary's Stamina</i> Increases the Mercenary's Stamina. Passive SpellRank4: STA +24. Rank5: STA +30. Rank8: STA +48.<b>Stamina Branch - Level 2</b><i>Swear</i> In-Encounter taunt. Roundshield Required. 20 sec recast.Rank4: 577-705 Threat. Rank5: 660-806. Rank8: 825-1008.<b>Stamina Branch - Level 3</b><i>Conditioning</i> Increases max hit points. Passive Spell.Rank4: 4.0% Rank5: 5.0% Rank8: 8.0%<b>Stamina Branch - Level 4</b><i>Opportunistic Cover</i> DPS Increase. Passive Spell. Roundshield required.Rank4: 25% Rank5: 31% Rank8: 50%<b>Stamina Branch - Level 5</b><i>Formation</i> Stamina, Mitigation, Reactive Aggro buff. Passive Spell. Requires Defensive Stance and Roundshield.Rank1: STA +51, Physical Mit +325, 50% chance to taunt for 244 when damaged.</font><hr><font color="#00ffff"><b>Wisdom Branch - Level 1</b><i>Fencer's Wisdom</i> Increases the Fencer's Wisdom. Passive Spell.Rank4: WIS +32. Rank5: WIS +40. Rank8: WIS +64.<b>Wisdom Branch - Level 2</b><i>Lunge Reversal</i> The next time the Fencer or an enemy attacking the Fencer uses a defensive maneuver to avoid an attack, the Fencer returns with a melee attack. 20 sec duration. 20 sec recast. Offhand EMPTY required.Rank4: If target parries, ripostes, blocks, etc, inflict 249-416 melee dmg. Rank5: 285-475 dmg. Rank8: 356-594 dmg.<b>Wisdom Branch - Level 3</b><i>Freehand Reversal</i> Increases riposte and Parry chance. Passive Spell.Rank4: Caster will riposte 4.0% of frontal, and Parry for same % attacks from other quadrants. Rank5: 5.0% chance. Rank8: 8.0% chance.<b>Wisdom Branch - Level 4</b><i>Unencumberence</i> Double attack chance buff. Passive Spell.Rank4: 42% of attacks will be double attacks. Rank5: 48%. Rank8: 66%.<b>Wisdom Branch - Level 4</b><i>Coule</i> Offensive Skill Buff. Passive Spell.Rank1: Slashing, Piercing, Ranged +39.</font><hr><font color="#9933ff"><b>Intelligence Branch - Level 1</b><i>Thief's Intelligence</i> Increases the Thief's intelligence. Passive Spell.Rank4: INT +28. Rank5: INT +35. Rank8: INT +56.<b>Intelligence Branch - Level 2</b><i>Boot Dagger</i> A positional melee dagger attack that places the Thief into stealth if it strikes. 30 sec recast. Dagger in Primary required.Rank4: 83-138 melee dmg, stealth. Rank5: 95-158 dmg. Rank8: 118-198 dmg.<b>Intelligence Branch - Level 3</b><i>Thief's Prowess</i> 2 hate positions reactive de-aggro chance % if Rogue takes damage. Toggle-able ability.Rank4: 12% Rank5: 15% Rank8: 24%<b>Intelligence Branch - Level 4</b><i>Evasiveness</i> Decrease Hate gain of caster by %. Passive Spell.Rank4: 5.0% Rank5: 6.2% Rank8: 10.0%<b>Intelligence Branch - Level 5</b><i>Feign</i> Feigns Death, avoids indirect AoE's. 3 minute recast.Rank1: 100% FD, duration 30 seconds. Prevents AoE, except when direct.</font>

[Daghammerskold]

Uh . . . I guess i must be a noob -- I've only been playing this game for a year -- what is critical damage?<div></div>

[Severed Ha]

<div>Thanks for the update Krakenappa and Agra.  Helps with the Ranks showing also much appreciated.</div>

[Severed Ha]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Daghammerskold wrote:Uh . . . I guess i must be a noob -- I've only been playing this game for a year -- what is critical damage?<div></div><hr></blockquote>Something new with KoS.  Basically with every attack you have a chance to do more then normal damage.  There is probly just a Base % of this happening and with the AA's it brings that % up so that it will happen more.

[Ookami-san]

<div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr><p><font color="#ff0000"><b>Strength Branch - Level 2</b><i>Torporous Strike</i> A melee sword attack that reduces the target's chances of any critical damage or heals. 30sec duration, 30sec recast. Requires sword equipped in Primary.Rank4: 213-356 dmg. Decreases crit %'s by 4.2%. Rank5: 4.8% Rank8: 6.0%</font></p><p><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ffff00"><strong>LAME.  SWORD?!  BAH!  USELESS!</strong></font><b>Strength Branch - Level 3</b><i>Blackguard's Defense</i> Increases the Blackguard's defense skill. Passive Spell.Rank4: Defense +12.7 Rank5: +15.9 Rank8: 25</font></p><p><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ffff00"><strong>Decent.</strong></font><b>Strength Branch - Level 4</b><i>Blackguard's Luck</i> Increases the Blackguard's chances at critical melee damage. Passive Spell.Rank4: Increases melee Crit Chance by 7.0% Rank5: 8.7% Rank8: 13.9%</font></p><p><font color="#ff0000"><strong><font color="#ffff00">Decent.</font></strong><b>Strength Branch - level 5</b><i>Traumatic Swipe</i> Increases Recast Timers of target by 50%. 1 minute duration. 2 minute recast. Must be flanking or behind.Rank1: 358-597 dmg, Recast timers of target increase 50%.</font></p><p><font color="#ff0000"><strong><font color="#ffff00">Interesting.  I wonder how it really works since some mobs still chain cast.</font></strong></font></p><font color="#00cc00"><p><b>Agility Branch - Level 2</b><i>Walk the Plank</i> A melee rapier attack that causes the target to turn around for a short duration. 30 sec recast. Rapier required in Primary.Rank4: 83-138 dmg, 2.0 sec duration. Rank5: 95-158 dmg, 2.4 sec. Rank8: 118-198, 3.0 sec.</p><p><font color="#ffff00"><strong>Ok... so this sounds interesting.  We'd get back attack while soloing more often.  Rapier in primary hand is fine... except for the other arts that require off-hand to be empty.  That means you're losing out on the</strong> <strong>duel wield benefits and the one-hander benefits.</strong></font></p><p><strong><font color="#ffff00">Also... how would this work if you're already behind the mob?  Does this have any real affect... like the mob not being able to attack you?  Does it change targets?  If you're in a group, and turn it around... does it whack you?</font></strong><b>Agility Branch - Level 3</b><i>Commandeer</i> Increases in-combat movement speed. Passive Spell.Rank4: 5% Rank5: 6.2% Rank8: 10%</p><p><font color="#ffff00"><strong>Does it out of combat too?  If so, does it stack?</strong> </font><b>Agility Branch - Level 4</b><i>Avast Ye</i> Permanent dmg proc buff. Passive Spell. Must be Flanking or Behind.Rank4: 8% Chance to cast Pirate Stab, 117-196 piercing dmg. Rank5: 10% chance, same dmg. Rank8: 16% chance, same dmg.</p><p><font color="#ffff00"><strong>Good for grouping. Definately max them one out for DPS.</strong></font><b>Agility Branch - Level 5</b><i>Sailwind</i> Reduces Recovery and Casting timers of all abilities.Rank1: Reduces Recovery and Casting timers of caster by 25%. (0.5 -> 0.4)</p><p><font color="#ffff00"><strong>INTERESTING.  Now that they are nerfing CA procs... will the procs go off based on the original timing or the adjusted timing.  This seems incredibly powerful for swashies since our arts are low casting times/recovery anyway.  This could take our DPS to new levels.</strong></font></p></font><font color="#ffff00"><p><b>Stamina Branch - Level 2</b><i>Swear</i> In-Encounter taunt. Roundshield Required. 20 sec recast.Rank4: 577-705 Threat. Rank5: 660-806. Rank8: 825-1008.</p><p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>Roundshield?  Geez... please don't smoke pot when trying to brainstorm for ideas SoE.  Heck... forget pot, this was a crack idea!</strong></font><b>Stamina Branch - Level 3</b><i>Conditioning</i> Increases max hit points. Passive Spell.Rank4: 4.0% Rank5: 5.0% Rank8: 8.0%</p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000">More useful for tanks than us really.</font> </strong><b>Stamina Branch - Level 4</b><i>Opportunistic Cover</i> DPS Increase. Passive Spell. Roundshield required.Rank4: 25% Rank5: 31% Rank8: 50%</p><p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>Again with the stupid roundshield.  ACK!  Did anyone who actually PLAYS our class come up with these?!</strong></font><b>Stamina Branch - Level 5</b><i>Formation</i> Stamina, Mitigation, Reactive Aggro buff. Passive Spell. Requires Defensive Stance and Roundshield.Rank1: STA +51, Physical Mit +325, 50% chance to taunt for 244 when damaged.</p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000">Sigh. /BONK</font></strong><font color="#00ffff"><b>Wisdom Branch - Level 2</b><i>Lunge Reversal</i> The next time the Fencer or an enemy attacking the Fencer uses a defensive maneuver to avoid an attack, the Fencer returns with a melee attack. 20 sec duration. 20 sec recast. Offhand EMPTY required.Rank4: If target parries, ripostes, blocks, etc, inflict 249-416 melee dmg. Rank5: 285-475 dmg. Rank8: 356-594 dmg.</font></p><p><font color="#00ffff"><font color="#ffff00"><strong>This is one of the most interesting arts.  I can see this getting maxxed out on my character.  As many times as I am riposted, parried, etc.... this would be amazing... ESPECIALLY when dueling monks or bruisers....BAWAHAHAHAHA!</strong></font><b>Wisdom Branch - Level 3</b><i>Freehand Reversal</i> Increases riposte and Parry chance. Passive Spell.Rank4: Caster will riposte 4.0% of frontal, and Parry for same % attacks from other quadrants. Rank5: 5.0% chance. Rank8: 8.0% chance.</font></p><p><font color="#00ffff"><strong><font color="#ffff00">Cool!  We're like.... "Mini-monks".... 1/3 the size... we're the diet coke of monks... just one calorie...</font></strong><b>Wisdom Branch - Level 4</b><i>Unencumberence</i> Double attack chance buff. Passive Spell.Rank4: 42% of attacks will be double attacks. Rank5: 48%. Rank8: 66%.</font></p><p><font color="#00ffff"><font color="#ffff00"><strong>Umm.... COOL.  Double attacks?!  Is there a chance to proc off each one?!</strong></font><b>Wisdom Branch - Level 4</b><i>Coule</i> Offensive Skill Buff. Passive Spell.Rank1: Slashing, Piercing, Ranged +39.</font></p><p><font color="#00ffff"><font color="#ffff00"><strong>Can't go wrong with this.  But seems a little lame for a final brank ability.</strong></font></font><font color="#9933ff"><b>Intelligence Branch - Level 2</b><i>Boot Dagger</i> A positional melee dagger attack that places the Thief into stealth if it strikes. 30 sec recast. Dagger in Primary required.Rank4: 83-138 melee dmg, stealth. Rank5: 95-158 dmg. Rank8: 118-198 dmg.</font></p><p><font color="#9933ff"><font color="#ffff00"><strong>Interesting... but not TOO useful.  We really only have one decent stealth attack.  Plus... DAGGER in primary?!  There goes the agility brank... </strong></font></font></p><p><font color="#9933ff"><b>Intelligence Branch - Level 3</b><i>Thief's Prowess</i> 2 hate positions reactive de-aggro chance % if Rogue takes damage. Toggle-able ability.Rank4: 12% Rank5: 15% Rank8: 24%</font></p><p><font color="#9933ff"><font color="#ffff00"><strong>Might actually be useful if you have your agility or wis paths maxed out.</strong></font><b>Intelligence Branch - Level 4</b><i>Evasiveness</i> Decrease Hate gain of caster by %. Passive Spell.Rank4: 5.0% Rank5: 6.2% Rank8: 10.0%</font></p><p><font color="#9933ff"><strong><font color="#ffff00">Blah...blah...blah...</font></strong><b>Intelligence Branch - Level 5</b><i>Feign</i> Feigns Death, avoids indirect AoE's. 3 minute recast.Rank1: 100% FD, duration 30 seconds. Prevents AoE, except when direct.</font></p><p><font color="#9933ff"><strong><font color="#ffff00">Nice!  Although the WIS path is basically worthless... I might take it just to FD... ESPECIALLY since it's a 100% chance.</font></strong></font></p><p>So... I'm looking at maxxing the AGL and WIS lines... and then throwing the remaining points in WIS 4... for double attack!</p><p> </p></font></blockquote>

[dagoo7]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>NicBitch wrote:<div></div>Just a thought on the wisdom line. If both the hits from unencumberance are counted as mainhand hits and are able to proc this line could well be worth it as offhand doesnt proc.<hr></blockquote>Hadn't thought about this, but this would indeed be huge if the extra attack did give chance to proc poison.  Anybody from beta have a definitive answer regarding this.  This could be make or break factor for me going wisdom line eventually.

[aubreyy]

<div><blockquote><blockquote><font color="#ffff00"><p><font color="#00ffff"><b>Wisdom Branch - Level 4</b><i>Unencumberence</i> Double attack chance buff. Passive Spell.Rank4: 42% of attacks will be double attacks. Rank5: 48%. Rank8: 66%.</font></p></font></blockquote></blockquote></div><div>Okay, So if I go agi/wis, im gonna need to find a good 1h rapier? Still, so tempted to go with sta, only for novelty though. I know I would regret it in the end. Would be really fun for instances. Don't know how many people would buy that I was going to tank. I'm excited they are bringing crit hits back. I don't think im going to be able to resist the 66% chance to double attack, even if I cannot duel wield anymore, or can this be used with duel wield? And it says 66% of attacks. Isnt that different then saying 66% chance? 66% of attacks sounds garunteed. Str line looks like a wise chioce, but that is one of those: 'am I really going to notice when this is working' (reuse timer decrease debuff). It seems like something you would have to do some comparisons on to notice. Not like double attack. I seem not to have any issues with agro lately, so int isnt looking too appealing to me.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>---Raizzel, 60 swashy</div>

[Lordviperscorpian]

LoL ok i was worried..becuase when i saw the STA line on PvP beta test i couldnt beleive me eyes when i read you needed a shield as a ROGUE to use it.  I agree,  SoE must have gotten help from blizzard with that one. The only line that really interests me is the agility one.  Turning someone around in pvp is fine with me...and the quicker my spells repop the better i say.  I just hope i can find a good rapier to do the job <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />...then agian auto attack dmg really doesnt matter in pvp...Agility is the best line currently IMHO.<div></div>

[Luk]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><p>one thing to remember, with anti hate skills, the current ones we are using are very good, master 1 avoid and adept 3 elude (for me), but.......</p><p>these skills are lvl 59 and 60, so WILL NOT be replaced by new skills between now at 60 and 70, these skill will therefore loose some of their effectiveness because there is no scaling to lvl, the deaggro from the INT line is looking very nice for raiding, well to me anyway. I remember the problems I had with aggro at lvl 57 when I was using lvl 45 and 46 deaggro skills, I had one very upset raid tank for a while till I hit 60 and upgraded those skills. Remember that all your new skills will draw more hate due to higher numbers, whether in damage or debuff, but your deaggro is going to remain at the fixed amount that it currently sits at.</p><p>I do realise that shadow slip is getting upgraded, but this is more an emergancy aggro drop than a constant use one, if it was on a much shorter recast timer, then there would be less problems.</p><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by Licit on <span class="date_text">02-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:43 PM</span></p>

[Reality]

*buries head in hands* omg so confused now ! All this AA stuff is going to make me crazy.. seeing as we wont be able to respec like ever ...correct? I want to make sure I make the right choices. Normally I wouldnt even consider the INT line but with FD .. and me being a raider .. I may .. MAY consider it.The confusion is only going to get worse ! LOL~ Moxi ~

[Krakenap]

<div></div><p>Now you guys have looked at it, i'll give you some of my major feedback:</p><p>Weapon Restrictions are way too tight - they need to be loosened (or removed) - instead of Sword it should be 1H - instead of Rapier / Dagger - Dual wield or something like that.</p><p>Str 5 - Traumatic Swipe - this is potential game breaking.  Adding a 50% increase to recast timer is going to be make this a must for most raid leaders as delaying AEs by 50% is huge in most epic combats.  I don't think any still should be a must - must - must.  I also don't think that older epic combats have been tuned for this type of ability.</p><p>Agi 5 - Sailwind - This isn't as good as it sounds - Casting / Recovery timer is about 1 second on most of our abilities.  Oh joy we just saved 0.2 of a second - wow (this is dripping with sarcasm if you haven't guessed).</p><p>Sta Line - we ain't tanks - stop with this stupid line.</p><p>Wisdom - all the Wisdom line requires you to have a free offhand - still a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good line.</p><p>Int 3 - Thieve's Prowess - if they make this a chance to proc when meleeing instead of when getting hit this would be way better.  Our job is not to get hit and when fighting in raids if you get aggro you are dead.  To have a chance (and not a very high one) to evade after getting hit is just silly.  If this must stay the same, we need to crank up the % significantly.</p><p>Int 4 - we need to be able to turn this off - after all aren't we a TANK class.  (BAH!!)</p>

[Keyh]

<span><blockquote><hr>Krakenappa wrote:<div></div><p>Now you guys have looked at it, i'll give you some of my major feedback:</p><p>Weapon Restrictions are way too tight - they need to be loosened (or removed) - instead of Sword it should be 1H - instead of Rapier / Dagger - Dual wield or something like that.</p><p>Str 5 - Traumatic Swipe - this is potential game breaking.  Adding a 50% increase to recast timer is going to be make this a must for most raid leaders as delaying AEs by 50% is huge in most epic combats.  I don't think any still should be a must - must - must.  I also don't think that older epic combats have been tuned for this type of ability.</p><p>Agi 5 - Sailwind - This isn't as good as it sounds - Casting / Recovery timer is about 1 second on most of our abilities.  Oh joy we just saved 0.2 of a second - wow (this is dripping with sarcasm if you haven't guessed).</p><p>Sta Line - we ain't tanks - stop with this stupid line.</p><p>Wisdom - all the Wisdom line requires you to have a free offhand - still a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good line.</p><p>Int 3 - Thieve's Prowess - if they make this a chance to proc when meleeing instead of when getting hit this would be way better.  Our job is not to get hit and when fighting in raids if you get aggro you are dead.  To have a chance (and not a very high one) to evade after getting hit is just silly.  If this must stay the same, we need to crank up the % significantly.</p><p>Int 4 - we need to be able to turn this off - after all aren't we a TANK class.  (BAH!!)</p><hr></blockquote>The only problem that I have, is they should replace Lunge reversal with a +parry. En Garde takes a relatively cool and unique buff that we get and  lunge gives it to brigands. Since they don't stack, it's going to be nigh useless (granted, you can cast one, then immediately the other)</span><div></div>

[aubreyy]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Licit wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><p>one thing to remember, with anti hate skills, the current ones we are using are very good, master 1 avoid and adept 3 elude (for me), but.......</p><p>these skills are lvl 59 and 60, so WILL NOT be replaced by new skills between now at 60 and 70, these skill will therefore loose some of their effectiveness because there is no scaling to lvl, the deaggro from the INT line is looking very nice for raiding, well to me anyway. I remember the problems I had with aggro at lvl 57 when I was using lvl 45 and 46 deaggro skills, I had one very upset raid tank for a while till I hit 60 and upgraded those skills. Remember that all your new skills will draw more hate due to higher numbers, whether in damage or debuff, but your deaggro is going to remain at the fixed amount that it currently sits at.</p><p>I do realise that shadow slip is getting upgraded, but this is more an emergancy aggro drop than a constant use one, if it was on a much shorter recast timer, then there would be less problems.</p><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by Licit on <span class="date_text">02-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:43 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I feel like it is a catch 22 though. With the int line, it seems like an over kill on hate reduc. on the other hand, if you take something else, youll need it. I wish the int line added some damage as well. I am honestly torn now.  

[Syrano]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Krakenappa wrote:<div></div><p>Now you guys have looked at it, i'll give you some of my major feedback:</p><p>Weapon Restrictions are way too tight - they need to be loosened (or removed) - instead of Sword it should be 1H - instead of Rapier / Dagger - Dual wield or something like that.</p><p><font color="#ff6600">Weapon restrictions provide diversity to the class, something people have been begging for.  I guess you win some, lose some, but someone is always unhappy.  The real question is whether or not KoS is truly itemized for this kind of restriction.  The current game is not, there is a very narrow set of choices in gear to fit these lines</font>.</p><p>Str 5 - Traumatic Swipe - this is potential game breaking.  Adding a 50% increase to recast timer is going to be make this a must for most raid leaders as delaying AEs by 50% is huge in most epic combats.  I don't think any still should be a must - must - must.  I also don't think that older epic combats have been tuned for this type of ability.</p><p><font color="#ff6600">Not really. In fact my raid leader had the exact opposite re-action. So much depends on *knowing* the recast time of an AE.  This skill is going to totally hose known AE re-casts.  Did the swashy(s) have traumatic swipe on?  How long was it on?  When will the next AE be now?  Getting this time wrong could completely wipe a raid. Too many random variables in its use.  This skill will be more valuable to the single group/solo swashy.  However, when you factor in one of the troubador lines actually allows his/her entire group to IGNORE AE's, you can't help but wonder what the T7 raid mobs have in store for us.</font></p><p>Agi 5 - Sailwind - This isn't as good as it sounds - Casting / Recovery timer is about 1 second on most of our abilities.  Oh joy we just saved 0.2 of a second - wow (this is dripping with sarcasm if you haven't guessed).</p><p><font color="#ff3300">So you think getting through your entire ability line %25 faster is a bad thing?  Granted I would prefer it to be a re-cast timer reduction but if that was the case, *everyone* would choose AGI.  As it is this will significantly reduce the use time of some of our most signficant abilities, Ingenious Finesse, Ruthless Cunning and Inspired Daring will be far more useful now, as their major drawback was their casting time.  Brilliant Swathe (or its successor) just became a whole ot more powerful as its casting time detracted from its damage output.  When you factor in that we are *not* attacking while waiting for our casting timers, even at 1 second, this is a very powerful ability.  You will be spending %25 more time attacking.  That should increase your DPS by a decent margin.</font></p><p>Sta Line - we ain't tanks - stop with this stupid line.</p><p><font color="#ff6600">Correction. We are light tanks, always have been.  If you haven't tried tanking in an XP group as a swashy you've completely missed some of our capabilities.  Unless you're one of those types that only plays in a perfect group or isn't willing to try taking content just because you don't have a fighter.  20 levels ago I would've *loved* this line.  Now that I'm more of a raiding swashy, and have one or two good tank friends to group with who play regularly, not as appealing.  Ah but that's the beauty of the ability to re-spec.</font></p><p>Wisdom - all the Wisdom line requires you to have a free offhand - still a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good line.</p><p><font color="#ff3300">It's a great line, the lack of off-hand buckler or weapon means a pretty big reduction in stats and capability.  This line basically recovers that lost ability.  I see this as a style line, all the abilities off-set the lack of off-hander and allow you to be an effective one-handed swashy.  But you will not have the same offensive punch as a swashy that say, takes the AGI/STR lines.</font></p><p>Int 3 - Thieve's Prowess - if they make this a chance to proc when meleeing instead of when getting hit this would be way better.  Our job is not to get hit and when fighting in raids if you get aggro you are dead.  To have a chance (and not a very high one) to evade after getting hit is just silly.  If this must stay the same, we need to crank up the % significantly.</p><p><font color="#ff6600">It's perfect as is. A two position de-aggro is *huge* and would be way too powerful on top of our existing abilities if we could use it on demand or were constantly proc'ing it (we'd never get aggro then).  We already have an-on demand one-position de-aggro that gets us out of trouble.  This is more useful in a single group then on a raid. There are still times I need to dump aggro, namely in multi-mob pulls and this would really help.</font></p><p>Int 4 - we need to be able to turn this off - after all aren't we a TANK class.  (BAH!!)</p><p><font color="#ff6600">Only if you look at it from a raiding perspective.  Granted that's all anyone ever seems to look at things for.  However our Raid roles are radically different then our Group roles.</font></p><p></p><hr></blockquote>

[AegisCrown]

<div>as it is typed out above there are not very many weapon restrictions unless Agra forgot to post them which i doubt</div><div> </div><div>STR.2 sword</div><div>AGI.2 rapier</div><div>STA.2 roundshield</div><div>STA.4 roundshield</div><div>STA.5 roundshield</div><div>WIS.2 empty offhand</div><div>INT.2 dagger</div><div> </div><div>if the rest of the wisdom line does not requireoffhand to be empty this could be huge, + 39 to attack skills, 40+% chance to double attack.</div><div> </div><div>and i agree with syrano about the sta line, we are small group tanks and have been, infact its fun. </div>

[dagoo7]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>AegisCrown wrote:<div>as it is typed out above there are not very many weapon restrictions unless Agra forgot to post them which i doubt</div><div> </div><div>STR.2 sword</div><div>AGI.2 rapier</div><div>STA.2 roundshield</div><div>STA.4 roundshield</div><div>STA.5 roundshield</div><div>WIS.2 empty offhand</div><div>INT.2 dagger</div><div> </div><div>if the rest of the wisdom line does not requireoffhand to be empty this could be huge, + 39 to attack skills, 40+% chance to double attack.</div><div> </div><div>and i agree with syrano about the sta line, we are small group tanks and have been, infact its fun. </div><hr></blockquote>Much more than that.  See screenshots posted at top of page 3.  In terms of wisdom line, everything requires empty offhand except perhaps the final accuracy buff.

[AegisCrown]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>dagoo7 wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>AegisCrown wrote:<div>as it is typed out above there are not very many weapon restrictions unless Agra forgot to post them which i doubt</div><div> </div><div>STR.2 sword</div><div>AGI.2 rapier</div><div>STA.2 roundshield</div><div>STA.4 roundshield</div><div>STA.5 roundshield</div><div>WIS.2 empty offhand</div><div>INT.2 dagger</div><div> </div><div>if the rest of the wisdom line does not requireoffhand to be empty this could be huge, + 39 to attack skills, 40+% chance to double attack.</div><div> </div><div>and i agree with syrano about the sta line, we are small group tanks and have been, infact its fun. </div><hr></blockquote>Much more than that.  See screenshots posted at top of page 3.  In terms of wisdom line, everything requires empty offhand except perhaps the final accuracy buff.<hr></blockquote><p>the post a little up this page is more current than those screenshots.</p><p>screenshots 2/16</p><p>post 2/19</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by AegisCrown on <span class="date_text">02-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:24 AM</span></p>

[overfloat]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>AegisCrown wrote:<div>as it is typed out above there are not very many weapon restrictions unless Agra forgot to post them which i doubt</div><div><hr></div></blockquote><p>Not sure on that. I noticed that too when he posted the new skill list but didn't get a chance to check. I wouldn't be surprised if the later WIS options still require an empty offhand, but we'll all be able to find out later today. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> </p><blockquote><hr>Equipoise wrote:*buries head in hands* omg so confused now ! All this AA stuff is going to make me crazy.. seeing as we wont be able to respec like ever ...correct?<hr></blockquote><p>There should be a respec system on Live. It wasn't implemented on Beta, so I don't know any more about the mechanics than you, but the Devs have said up front that there will be a way to refund/redistribute spent points.</p><p> </p><blockquote><hr>Syrano wrote:<div></div><p><font color="#ff6600">Weapon restrictions provide diversity to the class, something people have been begging for.  I guess you win some, lose some, but someone is always unhappy.</font></p><hr></blockquote><p>Agreed. Most of us were a little surprised/disappointed to see the weapon restrictions at first but they been relaxed a little, so overlapping AA branches won't be so awkward. I like that there's a definite theme to each branch so we can customise our role a little more -- debuffer, DPSer, small group tank, etc.</p><p> </p><blockquote><p></p><hr><font color="#ff6600">So much depends on *knowing* the recast time of an AE.  This skill is going to totally hose known AE re-casts.  Did the swashy(s) have traumatic swipe on?  How long was it on?  When will the next AE be now?  Getting this time wrong could completely wipe a raid. </font><hr></blockquote><p>That was exactly my first reaction, that most raid leaders would ban this ability because it makes AE timing too unpredictable. Krakenappa then pointed out that it could become a prerequisite AA for raiding rogues, though I have to say I'm not sure that will ever happen. It's a 1 min duration / 2 min recast, meaning you need at least 3 rogues to keep it applied continuously (or 2 rogues with <em>immaculate</em> timing). Unfortunately, if one of them dies or has their Traumatic Swipe miss/parried, you're screwed. I think this will actually be most useful to soloers fighting challenging mobs.</p><blockquote><p><font color="#ff6600"></font> </p><font color="#ff6600"><p></p></font><hr>However, when you factor in one of the troubador lines actually allows his/her entire group to IGNORE AE's, you can't help but wonder what the T7 raid mobs have in store for us.<hr></blockquote><p>The troubador AE immunity is an end-of-branch AA and lasts only 11 seconds out of every 15 minutes so, while might be nice for an emergency save on the tank (3 sec cast time though, ouch), I'm not sure it can really be used as an indication of what we'll be going up against.</p><font color="#ff6600"></font><blockquote><p> </p><blockquote><p></p><hr><font color="#ff3300">So you think getting through your entire ability line %25 faster is a bad thing?  Granted I would prefer it to be a re-cast timer reduction but if that was the case, *everyone* would choose AGI. </font><hr></blockquote></blockquote><p>I'm not convinced of the usefulness of this skill either. Its last incarnation (0 recovery time) was pretty bad, this is just abysmal. The only real reason it's useful is (a) to spam abilities, and (b) to speed up ID and Finesse casts (and, to a lesser extent, the Swathe line).</p><p>Outside of spamming CAs it's pretty much useless because, if you're pacing CAs, recovery time is not a factor, meaning that you've shaved a whole 0.1s off your cast times. 0.1s ... heck even 0.2s if you're spamming CAs... is entirely negated by a blip of server/network lag (which, on my server, is pretty much continual and unavoidable). If any swashbucklers on AB or other laggy servers take this skill, I will be astounded!</p><p><font color="#ff3300"></font> </p><blockquote><blockquote><p></p><hr><font color="#ff6600">Correction. We are light tanks, always have been.  If you haven't tried tanking in an XP group as a swashy you've completely missed some of our capabilities.  Unless you're one of those types that only plays in a perfect group or isn't willing to try taking content just because you don't have a fighter.  20 levels ago I would've *loved* this line. </font><hr></blockquote></blockquote><p>I won't be taking the STA line at all because I simply don't enjoy tanking. Occasionally it happens that I end up tanking for a while, but I avoid it enough to make investing in the STA line pointless. That said, I do appreciate the flexibility of being able to take a few hits in an emergency (its come in handy many times) and I'm glad the Devs added this branch simply for variety. While many/most rogues don't tank much, there are lots of people who spend significant time in duos/trios and will appreciate the utility of this branch.</p><p>The one thing I don't like about the STA branch is the 50% DPS on STA.4 at rank 8. That's an obscene DPS boost for a primarily defensive branch. Unless there's something I don't know about the way the DPS modifier is calculated, 50% DPS on STA.4 is <em>far</em> too close to 66% double attack on WIS.4 for it to be balanced, and it's way, way more powerful than 16% proc on AGI.4.</p><font color="#ff6600"></font><blockquote><blockquote><p> </p><p></p><hr><font color="#ff3300">It's a great line, the lack of off-hand buckler or weapon means a pretty big reduction in stats and capability.  This line basically recovers that lost ability.  I see this as a style line, all the abilities off-set the lack of off-hander and allow you to be an effective one-handed swashy.  But you will not have the same offensive punch as a swashy that say, takes the AGI/STR lines. </font><hr></blockquote></blockquote><p>I'm not sure... I don't have parses to prove either way, but I think the WIS branch may turn out to be "the DPS branch", even if it is restricted to one hand only. The AGI branch looks incredibly weak on offense now, compared to WIS and STA. I'm actually very tempted to combine WIS and INT.</p><p> </p><blockquote><blockquote><p></p><hr><font color="#ff6600">It's perfect as is. A two position de-aggro is *huge* and would be way too powerful on top of our existing abilities if we could use it on demand or were constantly proc'ing it (we'd never get aggro then).  We already have an-on demand one-position de-aggro that gets us out of trouble.  This is more useful in a single group then on a raid. There are still times I need to dump aggro, namely in multi-mob pulls and this would really help. </font><hr></blockquote></blockquote><p>A two-position de-aggro is huge, and that's really part of the issue. Making this a reactive proc makes it situational to the point of being almost useless. It will be absolutely useless in raids, except where raid mobs have either a DS or a very minor DoT or debuff (such as Curse of Insanity). Obviously it's not a solo skill. In groups against single mobs you already have Shadow Slip, as you pointed out, to pop on demand -- failing that, you can tank and/or burn down most regular group mobs anyway. The example you gave -- of accidentally pulling multi-mob aggro by over-AEing -- is the only situation I can <em>ever </em>imagine it being useful.</p><p>I'd prefer to see this made an <em>active </em>proc with a much lower proc rate. I wouldn't like to see it making aggro a non-issue, but a little more "real world" functionality would be nice! For an AA line that centres around not getting hit - stealth, hate reduction, FD - a reactive proc seems a little out of place, even if its effect is aggro loss.</p><blockquote><blockquote><p><font color="#ff6600"></font> </p><hr>Int 4 - we need to be able to turn this off - after all aren't we a TANK class.  (BAH!!)<p><font color="#ff6600">Only if you look at it from a raiding perspective.  Granted that's all anyone ever seems to look at things for.  However our Raid roles are radically different then our Group roles.</font></p><hr></blockquote></blockquote><p>I think what he's aiming at is that this needs to be a toggle so as not to interfere with the STA branch. There are already enough AA incompatibility issues and overlaps, hehe.</p><p>A lot of this discussion was feedback left on the Beta forum, not sure if the Devs took any of it into account and made any last minute tweaks. Will find out this evening, hopefully. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> </p><p>Personally I'm leaning towards simply maxing out the WIS and INT branches. I like the style of WIS, plus the offensive bonuses. INT is a lot less desireable than it was in its first incarnation but it still makes a nice utility set to match the WIS branch; a hate reducer is always handy and the FD is a gem. Those are the only two lines I'd consider maxing out, anyway.</p>

[Scort]

You all do realize that in a week or so, they will be changing these skills to "Will not effect Epic targets" right? Sure, they are not saying it now but how much you want to bet that nerf will happen?I still think requiring certain weapons or an empty 2nd hand is lame and wish they would remove the restrictions. ESPECIALLY the empty 2nd hand. I mean [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], not even a shield there?I totally 100% agree with "WE ARE NOT [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ING TANKS!!! STOP TRYING TO MAKE US INTO ONE for crying the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] out loud. Sheesh. If you want us to be tanks, then add a HUGE amount of avoidance to that line or allow us to wear plate.If you INSIST on the lame weapon restrictions, then at least change to 1H instead of sword/rapier and dual wield instead of dagger and allow a shield, especially where you say 2nd hand empty, so we don't loose stats.<p>Message Edited by Scortch on <span class="date_text">02-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:45 PM</span></p>

[overfloat]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Scortch wrote:You all do realize that in a week or so, they will be changing these skills to "Will not effect Epic targets" right? Sure, they are not saying it now but how much you want to bet that nerf will happen?<hr></blockquote>Considering the trouble we had trying to get them to add "If target not Epic" to Walk the Plank (which still hasn't been done), I'd be surprised if it happened that fast...<p>Message Edited by overfloater on <span class="date_text">02-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:50 AM</span></p>

[Dr. Unk]

<div></div>Do we still have to have rank 4 in a previous ability to get the next ability in a tree?

[mayhem111]

<div></div><p>The only problem i see with the deaggro buff when u get hit is when the tank drops in a group,   Usually the swash is numero uno on the mobs hate list then.  Whack hes not anymore and mobs goes and kills healer or clothy wizards.   Usually in a group when we get hate its either too much aggro or tank drops.  If tanks drops we want to tank it to finish it off.</p><p> </p><p>Also what happend to all the parry buffs in the defensive lines <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  Plus 92 to parry would have been really nice.  Like 30 or more % to avoidance.</p>

[Krakenap]

<div></div><div></div><p>Yes you still require 4 ranks to advanced to the next level (exception of Pickpocket).</p><p>As of right now:</p><p>All of Rank 2 require a specific item (rapier, sword, dagger, roundshield or free offhand)</p><p>Wisdom line Ranks 2 - 5 Require a free offhandStamina Line Ranks 2 - 5 Require a roundshield.</p><p>This means that you can not use both Wisdom and Stamina together - period.If you choose either Wisdom or Stamina lines then you will not be able to effectively use a dual wield (without sacrificing significant damage) - which means that dagger isn't possible and rapier is much harder to find.</p><p>-------</p><p>Another thing that annoys me is that with the whole Offhand / Shield thing - why aren't more of the T7 quests allowing us to choose 1H ?  Almost all the quest rewards for weapons require us to pick a dual wield.</p><p>--------</p><p>For those of you who think we are related to a tanking class you chose the wrong class.  Swashbucklers are not tanks - they don't have the mit or the avoidance and they never will.  They are scouts for a reason - scouts are not designed to tank.  Perhaps we can take more hits than a predator or bard but don't fool yourself into thinking that your class should be a tanking class. </p><p>Yes, you CAN stand in front of a mob and take hits - heck so can a Shaman or any priest - so can rangers - but why would you?  It just completely reduces your abilities (you can't even use a bunch of your CAs) and you aren't nearly as effective as any tank class would be.  I'm not even sure you would be as effective as a Shaman with your transfer on it.  Sure you can.. but don't fool yourself into thinking you are tanking - you are just taking hits.</p><p>We are a utility class - we can debuff and dps and take some hits but we aren't designed to tank.  Rogues are the best debuffing dps classes in the game.  They rock at it, they lose some dps to do so. </p><p>Let me ask you another question - you are in a group with a paladin, monk, guardian, berserker, templar - Who is tanking?  Do you think your name would EVER come up?  Of course not - why not - cause you aren't a tank.  </p><p>Message Edited by Krakenappa on <span class="date_text">02-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:55 PM</span></p>

[Dr. Unk]

<div></div>Why is everyone complaining so much about the STA line that increases our tanking ability?  Sure with a real tank present we won't ever stack up, but quite a few people solo or duo, this is a line for them.  We have 4 other lines dedicated to the group/raid swashy, so what's the big deal??

[dagoo7]

<div></div><div></div><div><blockquote><hr>dagoo7 wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>AegisCrown wrote:<div>as it is typed out above there are not very many weapon restrictions unless Agra forgot to post them which i doubt</div><div> </div><div>STR.2 sword</div><div>AGI.2 rapier</div><div>STA.2 roundshield</div><div>STA.4 roundshield</div><div>STA.5 roundshield</div><div>WIS.2 empty offhand</div><div>INT.2 dagger</div><div> </div><div>if the rest of the wisdom line does not requireoffhand to be empty this could be huge, + 39 to attack skills, 40+% chance to double attack.</div><div> </div><div>and i agree with syrano about the sta line, we are small group tanks and have been, infact its fun. </div><hr></blockquote>Much more than that.  See screenshots posted at top of page 3.  In terms of wisdom line, everything requires empty offhand except perhaps the final accuracy buff.<hr></blockquote><p>the post a little up this page is more current than those screenshots.</p><p>screenshots 2/16</p><p>post 2/19</p><p>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________________</p></div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Regardless of what is posted in that last postI your dreaming if you think any of the wisdom line will work with dual wield.  Just like the stamina line, the whole line is designed around and built off weapon limitation.  A 60% increase to dps while using dual wield would be ridiculously overpowered not to mention an oxymoron given the name of the skill "unencumbrance".  So don't get too excited there, but feel free to dream the impossible dream.</div><p>Message Edited by dagoo7 on <span class="date_text">02-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:43 PM</span></p>

[Belizarius]

<div></div><div></div><p>Actually, I think the STA line was a nice idea in theory.  It allows rogues to personalise themselves as a 'heavy scout' or 'light tank' if they wish.  It could be fun finding out how well a fully STA based swashy with good gear could tank for a group.  The problem is that real tanks are plentiful and will always outtank you,  and swashies are scarce, and swashy DPS is rather positional, so in practice it's just a great big waste.</p><p>Edit:  I suppose that with a good 1-hander and the way procs work now, plus the 50% damage boost AA, it could be a good option for soloing too...</p><p>Message Edited by Belizarius on <span class="date_text">02-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:18 PM</span></p>

[ophidius]

<div></div><div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>Belizarius wrote:Actually, I think the STA line was a nice idea in theory.  It allows rogues to peronalise themselves as a 'heavy scout' or 'light tank' if they wish.  It could be fun finding out how well a fully STA based swashy with good gear could tank for a group.  The problem is that real tanks are plentiful and will always outtank you,  and swashies are scarce, and swashy DPS is rather positional, so in practice it's just a great big waste.<hr></blockquote></span><span><blockquote><hr>agra wrote:<font color="#ffff00"><b>Stamina Branch - Level 4</b><i>Opportunistic Cover</i> DPS Increase. Passive Spell. Roundshield required.Rank4: 25% Rank5: 31% Rank8: 50%</font><span></span><hr></blockquote></span><span>Just to play devil's advocate for the STA line, how much of a difference in damage do you think we'll see between dual-wielding and a 150% damage one-hander with Opportunistic Cover (Rank <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />?EDIT: Oh, and you edited while I was posting. <span>:smileytongue:</span></span></div><p>Message Edited by ophidius on <span class="date_text">02-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:20 PM</span></p>

[Grimme]

<div></div><div>Here is a rough take on what I plan to take for my group utility layout, focusing on damage and shutting down casters. Haven't worked out exact numbers but it will be somewhere close to this. The X number to the left is ponts spent.</div><div> </div><div><font color="#ff0000"><strong>4x STR.1 - Strength of the Blackguard "Increases strength of the caster"</strong>-5 Str per AA point up to 8 points.<b>4x STR.2 - Torporous Strike "A melee attack that increases the recovery time of the target"</b>App4 - 82 damage, cast 0.5, recovery 0.5, 45sec recast, 36 sec duration, 196 melee damage, Increases Spell Recovery Time of target by 100, if greatsword or sword in primary.</font></div><div> </div><div><font color="#00cc00"><strong>4x AGI.1 - Deftness "Increases Agility of the caster"</strong>-5 Agi per AA point up to 8 points.</font><div><font color="#00cc00"><b>4x AGI.2 - Calculated Riposte "You will respond to the next 3 melee attacks with a calculated melee response."</b>Adept4 - 82 power, 0.2 casting, instant recovery, recast 5 minutes, 52.2 sec duration. When target is damage with a melee weapon this spell will cast Riposter's Response on target's attacker, inflicting 200-301 melee damage on target.<b>4x AGI.3 - Bucaneer's Stride "Your in-combat movement rate is increased"</b>Adept4 - 0 cast, 0 recovery, 0 recast, Up until cancelled. Increases in-combat movement speed of caster by 16%.<b>8x AGI.4 - Bucaneer's Haste "Your attack rate is increased"</b>Adept4 - 0 cast, 0 recovery, 0 recast, Up until cancelled. Increases Attack Speed of caster by 14%.</font></div><font color="#00cc00"></font></div><div><font color="#00cc00"><strong></strong></font> </div><div><font color="#00cc00"><strong>8xAGI.5 - Rapidity "All your reuse timers are reduced"</strong>App1 - 0 cast, 0 recovery, 0 recast, Up until cancelled. Increases Spell Reuse time of caster by 10.0</font></div><div></div><div><font color="#00ffff"><strong>4x WIS.1 - Stylish Wit "Increases Wisdom of the caster"</strong>-5 Wis per AA point up to 8 points.<b>8x WIS.2 - Cross "A melee attack that marks your opponent. Future attacks can briefly stifle any marked opponent"</b>Adept4 - 82 power, 0.5 sec cast, 0.5 sec recovery, recast 1 minute, 27 sec duration, 6 m range. Inflicts 227-341 melee damage on target. When target is damage with a melee weapon this spell has a 80% chance to cast Stifle on target's attacker. lasts for 16.8 seconds. If not Epic.</font></div>

[Mathe]

<div></div><p>Just as a note, the AA lines aren't the same as originally posted. Many have changed significantly. I'm sure most have noticed it, but still a couple people seem to be looking off old skill list.</p><p>I don't see why people complain about lines though. If one doesn't fit your play style, don't pick that one. If you don't duo and play a tank, don't pick the STA line. Maybe the line doesn't fit your style, but it might be more worthwhile for another. Like how the Summoner AGI line is totally worthless if you only use Mage and Fighter pets, but for someone that uses the Scout pets exclusively, it is a good line (I use this example just because the benefits are more obvious with the lines), but then again two of the lines are not pet type exclusive and might fit someone that switches between pets more often better.</p><p>Also, no AA interferes with the class funtionality in any way (besides needing certain equipment, but that is something you should go into the line already knowing). Even so, not every skill in lines with equipment restrictions need those restrictions. The Crusader INT line has 2 of the 4 skills (not counting stat skill) that do not require having a symbol equipped, which is not usually a desirable thing, but a good chance for critical healing and critical magic damage could be desirable to some players.</p><p>The idea that not choosing the right AA will cripple a character is ludicrous. People have been playing the game a long time with no AA, and Berserkers were still able to hold hate without their STR line Threat bonus.</p>

[Belizarius]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>ophidius wrote:<div></div><div></div><span><div>Just to play devil's advocate for the STA line, how much of a difference in damage do you think we'll see between dual-wielding and a 150% damage one-hander with Opportunistic Cover (Rank <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />?</div><div><font color="#ffff00">I agree, probably wouldn't lose much at all.  Same procs, same CAs, decent auto-attack.  But it's a lot of AA points to spend, for which I don't see much return except when soloing.  You'll  still contribute more to your group if you aren't trying to tank regardless of what AAs you pick.</font></div><div><font color="#ffff00">There's 3 swashy mains in our guild, one of them solos a lot and might be drawn to the STA path.  I think it's nice to have that as an option.</font>EDIT: Oh, and you edited while I was posting. <span>:smileytongue:</span><font color="#ffff00">Heh heh, sorry. :smileytongue:</font></span></div><p>Message Edited by ophidius on <span class="date_text">02-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:20 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>Edit (again lol)</p><p>I can see this being a bit of a dilemma for my wife's swashy.  She's usually grouped with my chanter, so shutting down casters with spellcasting debuffs is not really an issue (I can perma stun/stifle). Unless the Str line works against epics, but how long do we expect that to last?</p><p>Our guild has plenty of tanks, so defense isn't an issue, except when we feel like duoing (and then my pet tanks so she can backstab).  She basically never needs to use her defense stance or shield.  The group taunt would sometimes be nice though...</p><p>Maybe she'll do best with <strike>Agi/Int</strike>?  Scratch that.  Prolly Str/Agi</p><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by Belizarius on <span class="date_text">02-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:49 PM</span></p>

[ophidius]

<div></div>I'm thinking about going either Thief to FD and Blackguard to the crit bonus, or if I go completely mad before Friday when I get back home... Mercenary with a little Blackguard for the additional Defense. <span>:smileyvery-happy: I like being different.</span>(But I'm a Brigand. Shh. Don't tell anyone I'm posting here. <span>:smileysurprised:</span>)<div></div>

[m0ya]

I'm going to choose.... Wisdom line for the "En Guarde X 10" (Even if it's requiring a freehand(Easy to switch with macro for 20sec). And the Int line for the Feign Death and all the de-agro stuff. I don't see why people want to take agility tho.. Buff is nice but with allt he uber stuff you get in KoS you'll max out your stats soon enough.

[the flu]

My thought was to get agility 1 (4pts) and then 1 pt in Agi 2 for the turn em about attack. Then get Int up to Int 5, and put the rest in the wisdom line. Unfortunatly my computer got fried so I am sitting here waiting on the chance to play. But I'll also be glad that someone else is doing the research for me <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Dweedleb]

<div></div>Is there any kind of message with pickpocket?  I didn't look at my skill window so I didn't see if it is an activatable ability like a CA, or does it just give you increased cash when you lot a mob

[Keyh]

It's a CA and only works on humanoid NPCs,<div></div>

[Dweedleb]

<div>On average, how much coin would you say you pull from a mob at level 60?</div>

[Keyh]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Dweedlebug wrote:<div>On average, how much coin would you say you pull from a mob at level 60?</div><hr></blockquote>Haven't even used it yet personally, Mainly because it doesn't work on the Aviaks. I'm assuming it only works on PC enabled races (Humans, High Elves, Dwarves, etc.). I'm gonna hit Maj'Dul tonight,  and try stealing stuff from some Coin/Truth Guards and get back to you.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Keyh on <span class="date_text">02-22-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:36 AM</span></p>

[Skean]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Belizarius wrote:<div></div><div></div><p>Actually, I think the STA line was a nice idea in theory.  It allows rogues to personalise themselves as a 'heavy scout' or 'light tank' if they wish.  It could be fun finding out how well a fully STA based swashy with good gear could tank for a group.  The problem is that real tanks are plentiful and will always outtank you,  and swashies are scarce, and swashy DPS is rather positional, so in practice it's just a great big waste.</p><p>Edit:  I suppose that with a good 1-hander and the way procs work now, plus the 50% damage boost AA, it could be a good option for soloing too...</p><p>Message Edited by Belizarius on <span class="date_text">02-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:18 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>It'll be very handy when duoing with my wife (mystic) or, as you noted, potentially for soloing.  People whose preferred playstyle is in the big guild or commonly in full groups might not want to become light tanks.</p><p> </p>

[Scort]

Hmm, I was pulling coin from Aviaks last night. Well, least the ones in SoS.

[Keyh]

<span><blockquote><hr>Scortch wrote:Hmm, I was pulling coin from Aviaks last night. Well, least the ones in SoS.<hr></blockquote>Strange, I was unable to use it on the ones in BS and TT.... I'm probably gonna hit up SoS with a group tonight though, so I'll check that out.How much do you get btw?</span><div></div>

[Severed Ha]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Dweedlebug wrote:<div>On average, how much coin would you say you pull from a mob at level 60?</div><hr></blockquote>On average for me I was getting about 3-5 silver per Huminoid mob that i used it on.  It dont always succeed.  Most I have gotten is almost 7 silver but was off the first Named in Poets.

[Dweedleb]

<div></div>That seems like a reasonable ammount I suppose.  Figure 10-15 silver off lvl 70 named then I suppose.    Not going to destroy the economy, but not entirely worthless either.

[Keyh]

"Rare picks" might be possible too, like maybe 1% chance to get an item or something.<div></div>

[overfloat]

<div></div><p> </p><blockquote><hr>mayhem111 wrote:<div></div><p>The only problem i see with the deaggro buff when u get hit is when the tank drops in a group,   Usually the swash is numero uno on the mobs hate list then.  Whack hes not anymore and mobs goes and kills healer or clothy wizards.   Usually in a group when we get hate its either too much aggro or tank drops.  If tanks drops we want to tank it to finish it off.</p><hr></blockquote><p>That skill is a toggle, so you'd be able to just switch it off on demand as you would Avoid Censure. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> The passive, always-on aggro reducer is another matter... we've been /feedbacking to get that made a toggle also, for exactly the same reason.</p><p> </p><blockquote><hr>ophidius wrote:<span><div></span><span>Just to play devil's advocate for the STA line, how much of a difference in damage do you think we'll see between dual-wielding and a 150% damage one-hander with Opportunistic Cover (Rank <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />?</span><hr></div></blockquote>That's my concern, too. The max 50% DPS buff on the STA line is absurd considering the defensive benefits and the fact that the character gets 1H and shield stats too.<p> </p><blockquote><hr>GrimmeHF wrote:<div></div><div>Here is a rough take on what I plan to take for my group utility layout, focusing on damage and shutting down casters. Haven't worked out exact numbers but it will be somewhere close to this. The X number to the left is ponts spent.<hr></div></blockquote><p>Check page 5 of this thread for the latest skill list (the one that went live with KoS launch). Most of the skills you selected have either changed drastically or disappeared completely, so don't get attached to them! <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[overfloat]

<div></div><div>I meant to post something about the AA respec system.</div><div> </div><div>You pay a fee to have all your spent points refunded into your point pool, and from there you can reselect your abilities and their ranks. The fee is small for your first respec but increases exponentially up to a maximum of 10p, the idea being to prevent people just respeccing whenever they feel like it or to suit their needs for the next 24 hours. Not sure where the respec NPCs are located on Live... on Beta I know there was one in the Academy of Arcane Science (NFP), not sure about Qeynos. The NPC had the tag  <Achievement Counsel> .</div><div> </div><div>Cost tiers listed below:</div><div> </div><div><blockquote><hr><a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=165"><span>Mirk</span></a> wrote:<div></div><p>The current cost formula has changed.</p><p>1st respec: 1s</p><p>2nd: 10s</p><p>3rd: 1g</p><p>4th: 10g</p><p>5th: 1p</p><p>6th and upwards: 10p</p><p> </p><p>Merchants may add their normal greed multiplier to the cost.</p><p>You can use "/dynamicdata Achievement.RespecCount" to see your current # of respecs. UI mods can add it but we didn't think it was that essential to add to the default UI.</p>--bob mitchellEQII programmer<hr></blockquote></div>

[Grimme]

<div></div><p>Ok, now with the new ones. Going for max dps. What I ended up with here dictates a one hand rapier (foil or cutlass looks like).</p><p><font color="#00cc00"><strong>4x Agility Branch - Level 1</strong><i>Pirate's Agility</i> Increases the Pirate's agility. Passive Spell.Rank4: AGI +20. Rank5: AGI +25. Rank8: AGI +40.<b>4x Agility Branch - Level 2</b><i>Walk the Plank</i> A melee rapier attack that causes the target to turn around for a short duration. 30 sec recast. Rapier required in Primary.Rank4: 83-138 dmg, 2.0 sec duration. Rank5: 95-158 dmg, 2.4 sec. Rank8: 118-198, 3.0 sec.<b>4x Agility Branch - Level 3</b><i>Commandeer</i> Increases in-combat movement speed. Passive Spell.Rank4: 5% Rank5: 6.2% Rank8: 10%<b>7x Agility Branch - Level 4</b><i>Avast Ye</i> Permanent dmg proc buff. Passive Spell. Must be Flanking or Behind.Rank4: 8% Chance to cast Pirate Stab, 117-196 piercing dmg. Rank5: 10% chance, same dmg. Rank8: 16% chance, same dmg.<b>4x Agility Branch - Level 5</b><i>Sailwind</i> Reduces Recovery and Casting timers of all abilities.Rank1: Reduces Recovery and Casting timers of caster by 25%. (0.5 -> 0.4)</font></p><p><font color="#00ffff"><strong>4x Wisdom Branch - Level 1</strong><i>Fencer's Wisdom</i> Increases the Fencer's Wisdom. Passive Spell.Rank4: WIS +32. Rank5: WIS +40. Rank8: WIS +64.<b>4x Wisdom Branch - Level 2</b><i>Lunge Reversal</i> The next time the Fencer or an enemy attacking the Fencer uses a defensive maneuver to avoid an attack, the Fencer returns with a melee attack. 20 sec duration. 20 sec recast. Offhand EMPTY required.Rank4: If target parries, ripostes, blocks, etc, inflict 249-416 melee dmg. Rank5: 285-475 dmg. Rank8: 356-594 dmg.<b>4x Wisdom Branch - Level 3</b><i>Freehand Reversal</i> Increases riposte and Parry chance. Passive Spell.Rank4: Caster will riposte 4.0% of frontal, and Parry for same % attacks from other quadrants. Rank5: 5.0% chance. Rank8: 8.0% chance.<b>8x Wisdom Branch - Level 4</b><i>Unencumberence</i> Double attack chance buff. Passive Spell.Rank4: 42% of attacks will be double attacks. Rank5: 48%. Rank8: 66%.<b>6x Wisdom Branch - Level 4</b><i>Coule</i> Offensive Skill Buff. Passive Spell.Rank1: Slashing, Piercing, Ranged +39.</font></p>

[Trollb]

<div>if you are max dps, you want dual wield right?</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Debunkt]

<div>Slight problem in your AA allocation Grim, the last skill in each tree requires 8 points to get it. You can't choose any less than 8.</div>

[overfloat]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Trollboy wrote:<div>if you are max dps, you want dual wield right?<hr></div></blockquote><p>That's what everyone's trying to figure out. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> As an example of damage on DW/1H weapons with the same delay (pulling this from EQ2Players, so I can't see the damage ratings):</p><ul><li>Pristine Imbued Cobalt Short Spear (<strong>DW</strong>)   <em><font size="1">x2</font></em></li><li>Damage: 48-143  <font size="1"> <em>x2  =  96 - 286</em></font></li><li>Delay: 1.7</li></ul><p> </p><ul><li>Pristine Imbued Cobalt Long Sword (<strong>1H</strong>)</li><li>Damage: 64-191</li><li>Delay: 1.7</li></ul><p>The combined DW damage is almost exactly 1.5 times the 1H damage, so you'd need at least 50% double attack chance (Unencumberance) with your 1H weapon just to match the lost DPS. Rank 4 of Unencumberance is almost 50%, not quite. That means you need to invest 4+4+4=<strong>12 points</strong> in the WIS line before your DPS is even <em>on par</em> with regular DW DPS.</p><p>Yes, there is Lunge Reversal at the start of the WIS branch, but there is no way LR is going to proc regularly enough to compensate for 33% lost DPS up front. By the time you reach Unencumberance Rank 4, then yes, LR + Unencumberance will exceed regular DW DPS. But if you use 1H in the meantime, you're just spending AA points in order to <u>lose</u> 33%ish DPS. Not to mention that LR requires that you burn a large dose of extra of power every 20 seconds just to get any benefit from it.</p><p> </p><p>If you then buy Coule you get a bonus to all your offensive skills, which would tip your 1H DPS past regular DW DPS. But should you really have to max out an entire branch just to see any benefit? That's my major complaint with the WIS branch. I need to grind through 12-20 AA points before I get any kind of benefit from the branch; using it before that is just shooting myself in the foot.</p><p>Alternatively, you could Unencumberance up to Rank 8 and get 66% double attack. Very nice, certainly better than standard DW. But then you've shafted your chance to max out any other AA branch. All the other AA branches give benefits up front, as soon as you start investing points, and still provide a benefit even if you don't take any of the mid-branch skills up to Rank 8. Why are users of the WIS branch basically <em>forced</em> to max out the line - or kill their ability to max out a second line - to truly get any benefit from it?</p><p> </p><p>My suggestion is still to (a) swap WIS.2 and WIS.4, and (b) increase the proc rate on Unencumberance substantially. Beyond that, having looked at the numbers, the benefits of the WIS line are incredibly limited for a huge investment. You'd be better spreading your points across the other lines for additional utility, crits, aggro loss, etc.</p><p> </p><p>On a side note, it looks like Coule took a <strong>massive</strong> hit going to Live. Mousing over it last night, it showed only +14 to attack skills, rather than +39. Either the display is bugged or the WIS line is looking less and less appealing.</p><p> </p>

[Dr. Unk]

<div></div>Good point on the Wis line, it will not be useful untill we get our double attack percentage over 50%.  Putting 1 AA at a time into Wis isn't going to get us any where fast, most of the time they will just sit there waiting for more points.  What I think I'm going to do is put all my points into the Str line. The Str line is nice because the skills are useful right off the bat and don't have many restrictions.  Then as soon as I have 21 AA's (enough to max out lvl 4 skill) do my first respec and put them all into wisdom.  Now it's viable to use a 1-hander because our double attack skill can be maxed out.  From there start putting additional points back into the Str line again.  This way our points will always be working for us and not just sitting around until we get enough points to make a line useful.

[ophidius]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Dr. Unk wrote some good stuff<div></div><hr></blockquote>That's usin' yer noggin'. <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span></span></div>

[Luk]

<div></div>Sorry, but for me its all about "<strong><em>style</em></strong>", I'm not going the WIS line for the DPS, though it wil be nice once some skills levels are achieved, its all about the one handed fighting or fencing I just wish one of our moves was a flatbladed slap on the backside after a parry :smileyvery-happy:

[overfloat]

<div></div><div></div><p>I like the style, too, but I'm not about to give up the practicality for it just yet... at least until I have a better idea how well the later WIS abilities compensate for the missing offhand, and how easy or difficult a decent 1-hander is to come by. I've been perma-broke since launch, so I'm kitted out with Adept1s only (except Adept3 ID for sh*ts and giggles.. yeah, sad isn't it <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />) -- I don't have as much leeway to lose DPS as those who are all Master-fied. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> </p><p><font size="1">Edit: can't spell. hey, it's friday, gimme a break =P</font></p><p>Message Edited by overfloater on <span class="date_text">02-24-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:33 AM</span></p>

[Dr. Unk]

<p>Wis line update</p><p>Someone posted that Coule took a bit hit from increasing our offensive skill from +39 to +14.9.  Checked it out last night and yes in only increases it by around 14, BUT in addition we get 14 to our defense and parry skill.  This will be a nice boost when I solo, but the large offensive skill boost would have been nice for raiding.</p><div></div>

[AegisCrown]

<div>still 14 is a nice boost, +40 or more for off stance, + 14 coule + 22 swindlers luck +equipment bonuses</div><div> </div><div>sounds pretty easy to get +80 or more to piercing and slashing</div>

[Dr. Unk]

<div></div>Anyone found a really good way to grind AA points yet?

[Scort]

Ok, the aviaks in SoS are Drogas, which you can Pick Pocket. I haven't been able to pick pocket the Aviaks though. I thought Drogas were Aviaks but, they aren't.

[Keyh]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Dr. Unk wrote:<div></div>Anyone found a really good way to grind AA points yet?<hr></blockquote>Most discoveries were reset, hit up TS, Nek, EL, Everfrost, Feerrot, and Lavastorm to get quite a few. Those zones alone should get you close to 4</span></div>

[the flu]

Ageis,Is there any chance you could edit the first post to have the current version of these abilities in it? Otherwise new folks might get confused.<div></div>

[Rokjin]

<div>Any idea on what the weapon limitation on "Walk the Plank" actually breaks down to? Is a Rapier only a rapier, or does a Epee or Sabre count as well? Or what exactly is usable?</div>

[LordSwiftbla]

<div></div>/thank

[overfloat]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Rokjin wrote:<div>Any idea on what the weapon limitation on "Walk the Plank" actually breaks down to? Is a Rapier only a rapier, or does a Epee or Sabre count as well? Or what exactly is usable?</div><hr></blockquote><p>I haven't tested, but It <em>should</em> mean any weapon that used to use the "rapier" skill, before the individual weapon skills were removed from the game. We've been /feedbacking since the beginning of beta to have the weapon type/skill added back to the Examine information on items, the way it used to be. Otherwise -- as you're finding -- you just have to guess which weapons fit the rapier, sword, and dagger categories for the various weapon restrictions. Sadly those requests haven't been answered, so it's pretty much guesswork. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Ok, that's not quite true. Epees, sabres, cutlasses, foils and rapiers should all be classified as rapiers and work with Walk the Plank. In case you're about to make a big investment in a new imbued weapon, or the like, see if you can find a very low level equivalent on the broker to test first. If you have the extra EQ2Players features on your account, you can also look up the weapon there -- some of the older items still show the skill associated with a weapon on EQ2Players even though this detail isn't shown in-game, but many of the newer items don't show this category either in-game or on the site. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> You can probably apply common sense for most weapons, though. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[MaestroX]

<div></div><p>The working consensus from the Brigand forum is:</p><p>Sword= 1H or DW slashing including whips</p><p>Rapier= 1H or DW pierce ( maybe just long) including the Dark Anuk Sabre (wooot!)</p><p>Dagger= 1H or DW pierce short</p><p>Hope this helps.</p>

[riblete]

I have just about decided how I want to spend my points, but I have a few questions first:BlackGuard's Defense (str3) - Does this require a sword to be equiped?Blackguard's Luck (str4) - Does this requires a sword to be equiped?Blackguard's Luck (str4) - Do criticals do exactly double damage? Can it be large amounts bigger than double damage?Agility line - Are there any Easy-To-Get, Good, T7, One-Handed Rapiers? Or is this entire line gimped from this restriction?<b><u>I am planning on this setup right now:</u></b>1 - Pick Pocket4 - BlackGuard's Strength4 - Torporous Strike8 - BlackGuard's Defense4 - Fencer's Wisdom4 - Lunge Reversal4 - Freehand Reversal8 - Unencoumberance8 - Coule<b><u>Totals of 45 points for the following:</u></b>Free hand must be empty, requires sword+16 STR, +32 WIS+72% double attack+14.9 slash, pierce, ranged, parry+40.5 defense  <font color="#cc3300">Woot!</font>+4% riposte frontal, +4% parry othersNew attack/debuff  - 213-356 damage + 3.6% decrease critical on opponent (lasts 30 seconds, reuse in 30 seconds)New damage proc - 249-416 damage, once per 20 seconds on parry / ripost / block / avoid<b><u>Five points left to spend:</u></b>4 - Pirate's Agility  -- adds 20 AGL1 - Walk The Plank -- Turns the opponent around, allowing me to use my nice debuffs.<i>- or -</i>5 - BlackGuard's Luck -- adds 8.5% critical chance<i>- or -</i>4 more points in Freehand Reversal -- adds an additional 4% to parry/ripost1 more point to BlackGuard's Strength -- adds 4 more STR, which gives a little damage on everything I doIf Blackguard's Defense does not require having a sword, then I can ignore the Torporous Strike in order to gain the utility of the 2 second turn-around of Walk The Plank. But that skill requires a rapier, so I have to go find a nice T7 rapier, and it has to be one-handed style. Also you are technically spending 9 points this way since you cant use the torporous strike. Very expensive to get off a debuff one extra time every 30 seconds, but lung puncture is very nice to keep on a mob if you are tanking.<div></div>

[ag]

Just wanted to make sure everyone knows that Freehand Reversal and Unencumbrance both also require the offhand to be <b>empty</b>. That was an omission on my original posting of this information, which I've <a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=34&message.id=8142#M8142">updated</a>, but this thread has not. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Rokjin]

<div>So does that mean axes and spears (or leafblades) slashing are counted as swords?</div>

[Debunkt]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>agra wrote:Just wanted to make sure everyone knows that Freehand Reversal and Unencumbrance both also require the offhand to be <b>empty</b>. That was an omission on my original posting of this information, which I've <a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=34&message.id=8142#M8142">updated</a>, but this thread has not. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><hr></blockquote>You still have Coule, last in the Wis line, as granting +39 to skills. In game I'm showing it is 14. Does it jump to 39 when you dump the 8 points into it?

[overfloat]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Rokjin wrote:<div>So does that mean axes and spears (or leafblades) slashing are counted as swords?<hr></div></blockquote><p>Leafblades (and all spears and great spears) should be piercing, and are categorised as spears -- so they won't work for any of the STR, AGI or INT weapon requirements. Axes are categorised as... axes! And hence are also useless for the weapon requirements. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I left a post <a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=33&message.id=9498">here</a> (in a not-so-obvious thread, I know) about the different weapon types. The short version...</p><blockquote dir="ltr"><p></p><font color="#66ffff"></font><font color="#66ffff"></font><hr><font color="#66ffff">Weapon types:</font><p><font color="#66ffff"><strong>Piercing</strong>:  dagger, rapier, spear, great spear</font></p><p><font color="#66ffff"><strong>Slashing</strong>:  sword, great sword, axe, great axe</font></p><p><font color="#66ffff"><strong>Crushing</strong>:  hammer, great hammer, staff, fists</font></p><font color="#66ffff"></font><hr></blockquote><p><u>All</u> weapons fall into one of those 12 categories. It may not be obvious for some (e.g. whips are categorised as "swords" ), but they are. The weapon type information is no longer displayed in-game, but you can find it for most older weapons (those in the game before mid-2005) in the EQ2Players item database.</p><p>Examples of those weapon types pertinent to our AA weapon requirements...</p><blockquote dir="ltr"><p></p><font color="#66ffff"></font><font color="#66ffff"></font><hr><font color="#66ffff"><strong>Rapiers</strong> include:  rapiers, sabres, epees, foils, cutlasses <font size="1">(ugh)</font>, etc.</font><p></p><p><font color="#66ffff"><strong>Daggers</strong> include:  daggers, knives, dirks, shivs, stilettos, sai, kris, parrying blades etc. <font size="1">(and most anything referring to short things that point, poke or stab, such as a fang)</font></font></p><p><font color="#66ffff"><font color="#66ffff"><strong>Swords</strong> include:  swords, longswords, short swords, scimitars, falchions, spathas, kukris, whips, etc.</font> </font></p><font color="#66ffff"></font><hr></blockquote><p> </p><blockquote><hr>Gokineq2 wrote:<div></div>You still have Coule, last in the Wis line, as granting +39 to skills. In game I'm showing it is 14. Does it jump to 39 when you dump the 8 points into it?<hr></blockquote><p>Coule only has one rank costing 8 points, so what you see now is all there is. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Yes, it was reduced to 14 <font size="1">(says 14.4 in-game?!)</font> from 39 in the transition from beta to live, but now it also buffs Parry and Defense in addition to Pierce, Slash and Ranged -- fair trade-off. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[ag]

<blockquote>You still have Coule, last in the Wis line, as granting +39 to skills. In game I'm showing it is 14.</blockquote>Yarr, it be changed, matey. (updating!)

[Iseabeil]

<div>I havent looked into this much yet, but I would imagine that the AA's scale with level as ye can start get them at lvl 20. The skills that are not % based would be overkill at low levels and essentially make it a must to own KoS even there. What we all are probably most interested in is how they perform at lvl 70, so... any fast lvling swashy out there that might be able to add in what numbers they get compaired to what swashies at other lvls see?</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[ilucife]

found a pic in one of the other forums of a 1h with a 75.9 dmg rating 22 str and a power regen proc....more reason for me to choose wis

[m0ya]

name??? link link!! lol

[Orionv]

<div>Has anyone gotten Sailwind and able to confirm that it lowers RECAST timers and not RECOVERY, as it says? Logically it should lower recast timer, as all our recovery timers are 0.5 seconds. If you inspect your combat arts, it shows 0.5 recovery, then it shows recast time, casting time. Recovery and recast are actually separate, yet this AA refers to RECOVERY.</div><div> </div><div>I feel like "buyer beware" and I'm being tricked into buying something I think does something highly beneficial, that actually does something worthless lol.</div>

[overfloat]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Orionvr6 wrote:<div>Has anyone gotten Sailwind and able to confirm that it lowers RECAST timers and not RECOVERY, as it says? Logically it should lower recast timer, as all our recovery timers are 0.5 seconds.<hr></div></blockquote><p>No, it's Recovery time.</p><p>25% reduction on recast would be horribly overpowered and pretty much everyone would take Sailwind without question. You're right that 25% off recovery seems fairly pointless -- and I have to agree without seeing any hard data to convince me otherwise -- but some people are still keen to try it out.</p>

[Sadaen]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><p>So what do you guys think f this build? Im thinking its OK but it also loses some points.</p><p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>Strength Branch - Level 1 <u><em><font color="#ffffcc">(go to lvl 4)</font></em></u></strong><em>Blackguard's Strength</em> Increases the Blackguard's strength. Passive Spell.Rank4: STR +16.<strong>Strength Branch - Level 2<u><em> </em></u></strong></font><strong><u><em>(go to lvl 4)</em></u></strong><font color="#ff0000"><em>Torporous Strike</em> A melee sword attack that reduces the target's chances of any critical stirke<strong>Strength Branch - Level 3</strong></font><strong><em><u> (go to lvl 4)</u></em></strong><font color="#ff0000"><em>Blackguard's Defense</em> Increases the Blackguard's defense skill. Passive Spell.Rank4: Defense +12.7<strong>Strength Branch - Level 4 <font color="#ff0000"></font></strong></font><u><em><strong>(go to lvl 7)</strong></em></u><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ff0000"><em>Blackguard's Luck</em> Increases the Blackguard's chances at critical melee damage. Passive Spell.Rank4: Increases melee Crit Chance by 7.0% </font></font></p><p>Total points so far 20 (including pick pocket)</p><p> </p><p><strong><font color="#00cc00">Agility Branch - Level 1 </font><em><u>(go to lvl 4)</u></em></strong><font color="#00cc00"><em>Pirate's Agility</em> Increases the Pirate's agility. Passive Spell.Rank4: AGI +20.<strong>Agility Branch - Level 2 </strong></font><u><em><strong>(go to lvl 4)</strong></em></u><font color="#00cc00"><i>Walk the Plank</i> A melee rapier attack that causes the target to turn around for a short duration. 30 sec recast. Rapier required in Primary.Rank4: 83-138 dmg, 2.0 sec duration. Rank5: 95-158 dmg, 2.4 sec. Rank8: 118-198, 3.0 sec.<strong>Agility Branch - Level 3 </strong></font><u><em><strong>(go to lvl 4)</strong></em></u><font color="#00cc00"><i>Commandeer</i> Increases in-combat movement speed. Passive Spell.Rank4: 5%<strong>Agility Branch - Level 4 </strong></font><u><em><strong>(go to lvl 7)</strong></em></u><font color="#00cc00"><i>Avast Ye</i> Permanent dmg proc buff. Passive Spell. Must be Flanking or Behind.Rank4: 8% Chance to cast Pirate Stab, 117-196 piercing dmg. </font></p><p>Total points spent 39</p><p> </p><p><strong><font color="#9933ff">Intelligence Branch - Level 1 </font><u><em>(go to lvl 4)</em></u></strong><font color="#9933ff"><em>Thief's Intelligence</em> Increases the Thief's intelligence. Passive Spell.Rank4: INT +28.<strong>Intelligence Branch - Level 2 </strong></font><u><em><strong>(go to lvl 4)</strong></em></u><font color="#9933ff"><em>Boot Dagger</em> A positional melee dagger attack that places the Thief into stealth if it strikes. 30 sec recast. Dagger in Primary required.Rank4: 83-138 melee dmg, stealth.<strong>Intelligence Branch - Level 3 </strong></font><u><em><strong>(go to lvl 3)</strong></em></u><font color="#9933ff"><em>Thief's Prowess</em> 2 hate positions reactive de-aggro chance % if Rogue takes damage. Toggle-able ability.Rank4: 12% </font></p><p>Total points spent 50!</p><p>What do you think?</p><p>Message Edited by Sadaen on <span class="date_text">03-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:37 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Sadaen on <span class="date_text">03-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:39 PM</span></p>

[overfloat]

<div></div><p>That's an interesting build, you're obviously not too impressed by any of the "final" branch skills ... which is understandable. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>The one suggestion I would make is to drop the 3 points from Thief's Prowess. I don't have it yet, although I'm pursuing the INT branch, but I don't forsee it being very useful at all. In group you'll normally have Shadow Slip ready to evade anyway and, heck, you're a rogue, you can take a few hits while you burn the mob down even if you do grab aggro before Shadow Slip is refreshed. In raids you should very rarely be taking damage, in which case a 12% reactive deaggro buff is nigh upon useless -- the only exceptions would be raid mobs with damage shields, very minor AE DoTs, or reactive damage debuffs (like Curse of Insanity (?), that damages you whenever you use power)... but unless you expect to see a lot of that, I'd recommend putting your points in something more proactive. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Mathe]

<div></div><p>I would suggest dropping one of the branches and using the extra points to either get a final skill in a line or bolster the better abilities. Like dropping INT completely and either adding the final STR or AGI abilitiy and them bumping up Avast Ye or Blackguard's Luck to 8 or upping Blackguard's Luck, Avast Ye, and one more AA to Rank 8. I'm not saying you should drop INT, but the real point of that branch is the next ability in the line for a passive additional hate loss, without that, it isn't terribly useful. INT is worthless as a stat (a few people do say that it does bump up poison damage, but the amount INT and STR actually boost damage isn't all that much, it is only because you upgrade tons and tons of it that there are very noticable improvements to damage, even so upgrading a skill a few pegs makes a lot more difference than hitting the stat cap, same would hold true of just using better poisons). Boot Dagger isn't comparitively that major a damage ability, and slipping into stealth to use the one stealth attack isn't a huge thing. Besides Shadow Slip or just hitting Sneak does that, if you really need to use it. The reactive is nice, but inherently requires you to swing hate for it to work. Better to get the next skill and do your best to eliminate ever getting hate than a reactive.</p><p>I would just focus more on two branches than watering down 3.</p>

[Mathe]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Orionvr6 wrote:<div>Has anyone gotten Sailwind and able to confirm that it lowers RECAST timers and not RECOVERY, as it says? Logically it should lower recast timer, as all our recovery timers are 0.5 seconds. If you inspect your combat arts, it shows 0.5 recovery, then it shows recast time, casting time. Recovery and recast are actually separate, yet this AA refers to RECOVERY.</div><div> </div><div>I feel like "buyer beware" and I'm being tricked into buying something I think does something highly beneficial, that actually does something worthless lol.</div><hr></blockquote><p>Well just to point out, there is an AA out there that does in fact reduce Recast time (only by 6% though), so it isn't like they use those terms interchangably. Reducing the casting timers by 25% does improve burst damage, so it isn't really worthless.</p><p>Also as a note, while our CAs don't have significant recovery times, potions and other magical items do. Besides the casting times are a bit more important than the recovery reduction, and is the main reason to get this ability. Being able to put all your debuffs in 3/4 the time it used to take is nice. As is with slower abilities, like the Mezz, which take longer to cast.</p>

[overfloat]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div><p>The only thing about plugging addtional ranks into AAs he already has at rank 6 or 7 is the diminishing returns. I believe there's a pretty small return from rank 7-8 on most abilities (especially those with % proc chances), whereas he may appreciate the additional utility of Boot Dagger or another AA instead.</p><p>Personally I kind of like Boot Dagger -> Brazen Thrust as an alternative to Sneak -> BT. Rather than having 2 seconds of 0 autoattack damage (casting sneak) just to get BT, you get an extra 150-200 dmg from BD on top of BT -- and in half the time of using sneak, meaning you're back and autoattacking sooner. That may not sound like a huge boost, but considering people are basing half their justification for Sailwind on saving 0.1s increments of autoattack time, it's not at all bad. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <em>(Edit: forgot to add, Boot Dagger + Brazen Thrust can also be used as an emergency stun, which has come in handy more than once -- you can't pull that off fast enough with Sneak)</em></p><p> </p><p>The major issue you're going to encounter pursuing 3 branches to just 3-4 abilities depth is weapon requirements. The second ability in each branch has a specific weapon requirement, meaning you're either going to be doing a <strong>lot</strong> of hotswapping (and at the cost of getting a decent weapon of each type) or you're going to lose out on using a large proportion of your skills, which defeats the object of branching out anyway. That would be the one of the main justifications for taking points out of INT and adding them into the STR/AGI branches you're focusing on.</p></div><p>Message Edited by overfloater on <span class="date_text">03-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:34 AM</span></p>

[Sadaen]

<div><p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>Strength Branch - Level 1 <u><em><font color="#ffffcc">(go to lvl 4)</font></em></u></strong><em>Blackguard's Strength</em> Increases the Blackguard's strength. Passive Spell.Rank4: STR +16.<strong>Strength Branch - Level 2<u><em> </em></u></strong></font><strong><u><em>(go to lvl 4)</em></u></strong><font color="#ff0000"><em>Torporous Strike</em> A melee sword attack that reduces the target's chances of any critical stirke<strong>Strength Branch - Level 3</strong></font><strong><em><u> (go to lvl 4)</u></em></strong><font color="#ff0000"><em>Blackguard's Defense</em> Increases the Blackguard's defense skill. Passive Spell.Rank4: Defense +12.7<strong>Strength Branch - Level 4 <font color="#ff0000"></font></strong></font><u><em><strong>(go to lvl <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></strong></em></u><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ff0000"><em>Blackguard's Luck</em> Increases the Blackguard's chances at critical melee damage. Passive Spell.Rank4: Increases melee Crit Chance by 7.0% </font></font></p><p>Total points so far 21 (including pick pocket)</p><p> </p><p><strong><font color="#00cc00">Agility Branch - Level 1 </font><em><u>(go to lvl 4)</u></em></strong><font color="#00cc00"><em>Pirate's Agility</em> Increases the Pirate's agility. Passive Spell.Rank4: AGI +20.<strong>Agility Branch - Level 2 </strong></font><u><em><strong>(go to lvl 4)</strong></em></u><font color="#00cc00"><i>Walk the Plank</i> A melee rapier attack that causes the target to turn around for a short duration. 30 sec recast. Rapier required in Primary.Rank4: 83-138 dmg, 2.0 sec duration. Rank5: 95-158 dmg, 2.4 sec. Rank8: 118-198, 3.0 sec.<strong>Agility Branch - Level 3 </strong></font><u><em><strong>(go to lvl 4)</strong></em></u><font color="#00cc00"><i>Commandeer</i> Increases in-combat movement speed. Passive Spell.Rank4: 5%<strong>Agility Branch - Level 4 </strong></font><u><em><strong>(go to lvl <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></strong></em></u><font color="#00cc00"><i>Avast Ye</i> Permanent dmg proc buff. Passive Spell. Must be Flanking or Behind.Rank4: 8% Chance to cast Pirate Stab, 117-196 piercing dmg. </font></p><p>Total points spent 41</p><p> </p><p><strong><font color="#9933ff">Intelligence Branch - Level 1 </font><u><em>(go to lvl 4)</em></u></strong><font color="#9933ff"><em>Thief's Intelligence</em> Increases the Thief's intelligence. Passive Spell.Rank4: INT +28.<strong>Intelligence Branch - Level 2 </strong></font><u><em><strong>(go to lvl 1)</strong></em></u><font color="#9933ff"><em>Boot Dagger</em> A positional melee dagger attack that places the Thief into stealth if it strikes. 30 sec recast. Dagger in Primary required.Rank4: 83-138 melee dmg, stealth.</font>Total Points spent 46....</p><p> </p><p>IMO this could be considered a high dps build but like always I would love to hear feedback. I dropped Boot Dagger down to 1...I am using the skill right now and well with the speed it puts you into stealth to use our Stun,knockdown attack, I think one point is justified. I also maxed out the Crit chance and Pirates Stab.</p></div>

[Kio]

<div></div><div>    Is it just me or does the Strength line not seem to make a lot of sense.  The first skill is +STR which is more damage.  Then the ability to reduce the mobs chance to crit which is defensive.  Then bonus crit % which is one of the most offensive skills listed.  Then back to defensive etc.  Too bad you cant choose a clear path to be good at one or the other  =(.  Gonna be like hybrids started in eq1.  Almost good at 4 things but not really best at anything.  Not trying to slam or anything just worried they are spreading us out too think over various different areas.</div><div> </div><div>~Kioti</div>

[Mathe]

<div></div><div>As far as I've seen, ranks are always consistent. Every point I've put into them has given the same amount of benefit as previous points. There isn't a diminishing return that some people have theorized, but never shown to actually exist, while at the same time people have shown that for example the 12.5% critical hit AA percentage really does end up being 100% at rank 8, though before hand a lot of people were saying things like, "It starts at 12.5%, but you will only get 2% or so per rank."</div><div> </div><div>It can also be pointed out that upgrading normal skills doesn't have diminishing returns either for higher upgrades.</div><div> </div><div>He also had them all at Rank 4, fine with some of them. However, for example, Blackguard's Luck is only half as effective at Rank 4 as Rank 8.</div><div> </div><div>I'd hardly call Boot Dagger a good emergency ability. Twirling the foe around with the AGI skill is more useful. Besides you can still be brought out of stealth before Brazen Thrust goes off. However, just hitting mezz gives you plenty of time to stealth and position yourself to Brazen Thrust and hit back attacks. Mezz refreshes pretty quickly, too, and unless you stun them before hand, you are risking getting brought out of stealth before hand. Using Mezz is a better bet, since Cheap Shot has better uses then pulling off something with a better chance of success that you can do by landing a Mezz.</div>

[AegisCrown]

<div></div><p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>Strength Branch - Level 1  <font color="#ffffcc">4 Points</font></strong><i>Blackguard's Strength</i> Increases the Blackguard's strength. Passive Spell.Rank4: STR +16. Rank5: STR +20. Rank8: STR +32.<b>Strength Branch - Level 2  <font color="#ffffcc">8 Points</font></b><i>Torporous Strike</i> A melee sword attack that reduces the target's chances of any critical damage or heals. 30sec duration, 30sec recast. Requires sword equipped in Primary.Rank4: 213-356 dmg. Decreases crit %'s by 4.2%. Rank5: 4.8% Rank8: 6.0%<b>Strength Branch - Level 3  <font color="#ffffcc">4 Points</font></b><i>Blackguard's Defense</i> Increases the Blackguard's defense skill. Passive Spell.Rank4: Defense +12.7 Rank5: +15.9 Rank8: 25<b>Strength Branch - Level 4  <font color="#ffffcc">5 Points</font></b><i>Blackguard's Luck</i> Increases the Blackguard's chances at critical melee damage. Passive Spell.Rank4: Increases melee Crit Chance by 7.0% Rank5: 8.7% Rank8: 13.9%<b>Strength Branch - level 5  <font color="#ffffff">8 Points</font></b><i>Traumatic Swipe</i> Increases Recast Timers of target by 50%. 1 minute duration. 2 minute recast. Must be flanking or behind.Rank1: 358-597 dmg, Recast timers of target increase 50%.</font></p><p></p><hr><font color="#00ffff"><p><b>Wisdom Branch - Level 1  <font color="#ffffcc">4 Points</font></b><i>Fencer's Wisdom</i> Increases the Fencer's Wisdom. Passive Spell.Rank4: WIS +32. Rank5: WIS +40. Rank8: WIS +64.<b>Wisdom Branch - Level 2  <font color="#ffffcc">4 Points</font></b><i>Lunge Reversal</i> The next time the Fencer or an enemy attacking the Fencer uses a defensive maneuver to avoid an attack, the Fencer returns with a melee attack. 20 sec duration. 20 sec recast. Offhand EMPTY required.Rank4: If target parries, ripostes, blocks, etc, inflict 249-416 melee dmg. Rank5: 285-475 dmg. Rank8: 356-594 dmg.<b>Wisdom Branch - Level 3  <font color="#ffffcc">4 Points</font></b><i>Freehand Reversal</i> Increases riposte and Parry chance. Passive Spell. Offhand EMPTY required.Rank4: Caster will riposte 4.0% of frontal, and Parry for same % attacks from other quadrants. Rank5: 5.0% chance. Rank8: 8.0% chance.<b>Wisdom Branch - Level 4  <font color="#ffffcc">8 Points</font></b><i>Unencumberence</i> Double attack chance buff. Passive Spell. Offhand EMPTY required.Rank4: 42% of attacks will be double attacks. Rank5: 48%. Rank8: 66%.</p><p> </p><p><font color="#ffffff">Total points spent 50 good debuffability and good offense as well</font></p><p> </p></font><div></div>

[overfloat]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Matheau wrote:<div></div><div>As far as I've seen, ranks are always consistent. Every point I've put into them has given the same amount of benefit as previous points. There isn't a diminishing return that some people have theorized, but never shown to actually exist, while at the same time people have shown that for example the 12.5% critical hit AA percentage really does end up being 100% at rank 8, though before hand a lot of people were saying things like, "It starts at 12.5%, but you will only get 2% or so per rank."<hr></div></blockquote><div>You're right, looking back it seems that most ranks do now increase in a linear fashion (though not all, I believe, and it certainly wasn't that way originally -- it wasn't theorised, many of the AAs didn't follow a linear progression during beta).</div><blockquote><div> </div><div> </div><div><hr> I'd hardly call Boot Dagger a good emergency ability. Twirling the foe around with the AGI skill is more useful. Besides you can still be brought out of stealth before Brazen Thrust goes off. However, just hitting mezz gives you plenty of time to stealth and position yourself to Brazen Thrust and hit back attacks. Mezz refreshes pretty quickly, too, and unless you stun them before hand, you are risking getting brought out of stealth before hand. Using Mezz is a better bet, since Cheap Shot has better uses then pulling off something with a better chance of success that you can do by landing a Mezz.<hr></div></blockquote><p>It depends how you're using it. You're referring to soloing, which wasn't what I was thinking of when I posted (I hate soloing, hehe). I was thinking more of regular groups. A lot of swashbucklers seem to overlook the fact that Brazen Thrust is our most effective single-target stun against heroics, and consider it an opening CA only.</p><p>In truth it's a full 4 second stun with a 0.5s cast time. If the tank is going down hard against a heroic mob, and has a sliver of health left, being able to pop a almost-instant 4 second stun <em>can</em> mean the difference between keeping the tank up for the next heal and having the group wipe. Compare that to illusionists, the masters of mezzing and stunning: it takes them a full 3 seconds to cast their stuns (which are also short duration).</p><p>Cut out the painful 2s cast time of sneak and replace it with a 0.5s cast time of Boot Dagger and you have an on-demand emergency stun that works through damage, won't break mez or aggro adds with AE damage, and is twice as effective as Cheap Shot. Heck, you can chain Cheap Shot - Boot Dagger - Brazen Thrust to keep a ^^^ heroic mob stunned for a full 6 seconds (or add in Swathe for 8s total if the situation allows it) with only a 1.2s lead time <font size="1">(0.5 BD cast, 0.2 recovery, 0.5 BT cast)</font>, compared to the 3.0s lead time required by illusionists.</p><p>I've been in situations where a sneak+Brazen Thrust has saved the tank ... and I've been in situations where sneak has just taken too darn long to fire and the tank has gone down. I actually had a reason to use BD+BT for exactly that emergency purpose on the very first night I had Boot Dagger (level 61-62 group trying to take level 68 mutli-mob heroics in some instance off Bonemire that I haven't been back to yet!). Sadly the mobs were so orange that BT swished and the tank went down anyway...  but that's not the point! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Brazen Thrust is one of our most power-efficient CAs and our most effective single-target stun all in one package -- just being able to chain that CA into your regular lineup without needing to break your stream of damage to cast stealth is valuable. If you always solo or always group in "perfect" grind groups, you may not need or see the benefit in it, but if you are regularly a multitasking rogue in a suboptimal (or suicidal) hunting group, it's actually quite a nice little addition to our utility.</p>

[Keldo]

<div></div>This is the build I am going with (primarily raiding / single group Swash, some soloing)1 - Pickpocket4 - Thief's Intelligence4 - Boot Dagger4 - Thief's Prowess4 - Evasiveness8 - Feign4 - Blackguard's Strength4 - Torporous Strike4 - Blackguard's Defense5 - Blackguard's Luck8 - Tramautic SwipeWith mobs casting debilitate, dispatch and other serious debuffs, I think Tramautic Swipe is a good investment.  If it turns out to be not so hot, I'll likely pump the extra 8 points into maxing out Evasiveness and Blackguard's Luck.  So far I have maxed the intel line first for Feign, and I am enjoying having it quite a bit.  FD saves group wipes, raid wipes, and saves me whenever I do something stupid.I'm also a big fan of Boot Dagger, having M1 of the T7 Shanghai probably helps there.  In a tough group situation, you can contribute to a victory in a lot of cases by chaining stuns.  Without Boot Dagger, it is a lot harder to use Shanghai to save a tank.  Unfortunatly, the trend which began in halls of fate with mobs being immune to stun may continue and make it all for naught, but generally speaking having that fast stun can be a lifesaver for keeping things together.  IMO it is by far the best of our 'level 2' attacks.<font color="#ff0000"><i></i></font><div></div><p>Message Edited by Keldoth on <span class="date_text">03-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:51 PM</span></p>

[Scort]

<div></div><p>I have the feign now and it has saved me a few times and since it's instant cast, when we are doing really nasty hitting mobs, I can get it off faster than my other anti-agros. I use them but sometimes I use them and still manage to get it right back, leaving only FD.</p><p>I just wish it lasted more than 30sec.</p><p> </p>

[Debunkt]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Scortch wrote:<div></div><p>I just wish it lasted more than 30sec.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Wishing enough that you would consider respecing to a different line or is it still too soon to tell?</p><p>I'm taking INT first too, but a ways off from FD. I figured with the passive hate reduction and Thief's prowess you'd hardly ever pull agro, saving FD for raid utility or getting a bunch of adds and running them off etc...but it sounds like that may not be the case?</p>

[Keldo]

<div></div>FD does not ditch aggro, thats why they come back to you when you FD then stand quickly.  Actually I should clarify, it does ditch aggro if you are the only person on the aggro list, but if you are fighting a mob with a group or raid, and you FD, you drop off aggro list, but when you stand back up you go to wherever you were again.As far as 30 seconds being too short, you really just have to plan for it.  To save yourself from group wipe or raid wipe, 30 seconds should be enough unless you FD at the first sign of trouble, in which case you may be in trouble.I also find it very helpful for helping with splitting social adds on raids or in groups.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Keldoth on <span class="date_text">03-17-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:27 PM</span></p>

[Scort]

I know all that.However, it DOES ditch agro, even if you are in a raid or whatever. I have used it many times when I got agro and needed to ditch it NOW, not 5 seconds of getting hit really hard and dying while waiting for my other one to get off.It's never failed, except the occasional time when I thought the entire train had come back and went back to it's spot, only to get hit by stragglers.Nah, even with 30 sec, it's still very useful. It's just way too short in those times the mobs like to hang around for a bit before returning to their spot. Some like to camp you for a bit <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[aubreyy]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>AegisCrown wrote:<div></div><p><font color="#00ffff"><b>Wisdom Branch - Level 4  <font color="#ffffcc">8 Points</font></b><i>Unencumberence</i> Double attack chance buff. Passive Spell. Offhand EMPTY required.Rank4: 42% of attacks will be double attacks. Rank5: 48%. Rank8: 66%.</font></p><p> </p><p><font color="#ffffff">Total points spent 50 good debuffability and good offense as well</font></p><p> </p><div></div><hr></blockquote>I just respec'ed for WIS last night to try it out. Rank 8 unencumberance for me only says 52%? I would really like to see some parses using WIS line vs DW. I will post some in a few days if no one else has this info. Does anyone who went Wis notice a DPS increase?</div>

[Galn]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>AegisCrown wrote:<div></div><div></div><p><font color="#00ffff"><b>Wisdom Branch - Level 3</b><i>Freehand Reversal</i> Increases riposte and Parry chance. Passive Spell. Offhand EMPTY required.Rank4: Caster will riposte 4.0% of frontal, and Parry for same % attacks from other quadrants. Rank5: 5.0% chance. Rank8: 8.0% chance.<b>Wisdom Branch - Level 4</b><i>Unencumberence</i> Double attack chance buff. Passive Spell. Offhand EMPTY required.Rank4: 42% of attacks will be double attacks. Rank5: 48%. Rank8: 66%.</font></p><hr></blockquote><p>Ok first to clarify... Wisdom Freehand Reversal shows a 20% chance to Double Attack when I look at it on my screen... This probably does not go up with each level though, I dont have it yet to see though.</p><p>Second, I did a little math... This doesnt include the correction I just mentioned...</p><p>I took 2 Ebon weapons and figured out the damage they'd do in 30 seconds, 1 single 1hander with the 66% chance of double attacks and a pair of Dual-wield weapons normally attacking. This does not include CA's</p><p>1H - 468-1434</p><p>DW- 450-1300</p><p>So, this Wis line will give you better dps in theory. I have not tested it in real life so to speak to make sure it works as e see it. If you include the 20% double attack the 1H will do 524-1607 in that same amount of time. I"m thinking I"m going to buy an Imbued Ebon Longsword or Cutlass now...</p><p>The following is the build I'm thinking.</p><p>Wis 4-8-4-8</p><p>STR 8-4-4-8 (to max crit chance)</p><p>Gives +32 STR, +32 WIS, +12.7 Def, +13.9% crit chance, 356-594 dmg every parry/riposte/etc, +8% chance to parry/riposte, Double attack on 86% of your attacks. One word comes to mind here.. "Ginsu" :smileytongue: Especially when you consider all the overlap and boosts due to STR and the additional doubles on the additional defenses etc etc.</p><p><font color="#ffcc00">Edit - aubreyy can you tell us if the Freehand Reversal gives the 20% double attack? Also with your info my numbers are not completely accurate but the 1H with Wis line would still be better than DW.</font></p><p>Message Edited by Galn on <span class="date_text">03-19-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:09 AM</span></p>

[aubreyy]

<div>Yeah, that is with 66%, but what I am saying is that I am at rank 8, and it is only 52%</div>

[Keldo]

Guess I should clarify what I'm trying to say more than anything, from playing a bruiser I have pre-experience with FD, hehe.If you gain aggro on a group or raid mob (meaning you are #1 on the hatelist) and FD and immediately stand back up, you will regain your position on the aggro list even if you do not regengage, there is no actual aggro loss.  While you are actually FD, you have no aggro, yes.  I just don't want people to mistake it for a complete aggro wipe get out of jail free evade.Example - pull mob A with a taunt, player B uses a low aggro spell to place themselves on hate list, you FD, mob goes for player B, you stand up, mob will come for you UNLESS player B manages to overtake your position on the hate list before you stand.You can use this to your advantage when pulling as well, making FD an excellent utility choice - example:5 social mobs in close quarters - Tag Mob A which you want, mobs B thru E aggro via social and all have you on their hatelist.  Now run to camp or wherever, and have player B tag mob A but nothing else.  Soon as you see them do it, FD.  Mob A will attack player B, but mobs B thru E will return home as player B was never on their hatelist.  Make sure you turn off aggro transfer and any heal / regen procs that would place someone on the hatelist when doing this as well.This works because of how EQ2 resets encounters if the only person on the hate list is dead, or in this case, FD.  In a solo situation, FD is a complete aggro wipe get out of jail free card.  When you FD as the only person on a mobs hatelist, you are dead, the mob breaks and returns to spawn point.  Only if another person is present do you regain any hate you had before the FD took place.I realize that you, Scortch, probably know this, but those curious about FD may not, so wanted to clarify!<div></div>

[tawek]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>overfloater wrote:<div></div><p>... Compare that to illusionists, the masters of mezzing and stunning: it takes them a full 3 seconds to cast their stuns (which are also short duration).</p><p>... Heck, you can chain Cheap Shot - Boot Dagger - Brazen Thrust to keep a ^^^ heroic mob stunned for a full 6 seconds (or add in Swathe for 8s total if the situation allows it) with only a 1.2s lead time <font size="1">(0.5 BD cast, 0.2 recovery, 0.5 BT cast)</font>, compared to the 3.0s lead time required by illusionists.</p><hr></blockquote><div>Correction about Illusionists:</div><div> </div><div>Illusionists have a 1 second cast AOE short-duration stun, which can then be chained with their 3-second cast long-term stun.  That gives the group long enough to cancel DOT's, let the illusionist mez the mob, which, with power regen, they can probably do indefinitely.</div><div> </div><div>(The real kings of stun are probably the Coercer, but not played one so don't have details)</div><div> </div><div><div>But you're right about how powerful our chain-stunning is.  Another option would be to use the level 2 agi-line skill:</div><div> </div><div><font color="#00cc00">Walk the Plank - Shadow Slip (1 sec cast-time) - Brazen Thrust - Cheap Shot - Swathe</font></div><div>That's about 10 seconds of stun.</div><div> </div><div>If starting another chain before the 1 min Shadow Slip recast time is up, use Sneak (2 seconds cast-time) instead.</div><div> </div><div>Dazzling Steel seems to knock the mobs down, though nothing is mentioned in its description.  Anyone know if it acts like a stun?  Or is just a dramatic animation?</div></div><p>Message Edited by tawek21 on <span class="date_text">03-19-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:26 AM</span></p>

[Rokjin]

<div>The total double attack numbers you will get from Freehand Reversal at Rank 4 (needed for Unencumberance) and Unencumberance rank 8 is 72% Double Attack.</div><div> </div><div>20% from Freehand Reversal (gives 20% at any rank level of it) and 52% from Unencumberance.</div><div> </div><div>This proc rate is NOT normalized it seems, which is how it should be, since a double attack of a weapon with 2 delay is worth twice as much as a double attack of a weapon with 1 delay.</div><div> </div><div>Does not go off on CAs from what I saw, but the Double Attack has a change to go off even if you miss/get parried on your first attack. (IE: It seems to check if a given auto attack will attack twice, then calculates whether it's a hit, crit, if a proc goes off on both swings independently)</div><div> </div><div>This also means you are getting 72% more auto-attacks no matter what, and those have their own proc chances. Essentially you are increasing all your proc chances by 72% as well. I have noticed I go through poison MUCH faster now due to this proc increase rate.</div><div> </div><div>For an idea of this effect, this will turn a 30% proc rate into a 51.2% proc. A 50% proc rate becomes 86.2%...</div>

[overfloat]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>tawek21 wrote:<div></div><div></div><div> </div><div><div>Dazzling Steel seems to knock the mobs down, though nothing is mentioned in its description.  Anyone know if it acts like a stun?  Or is just a dramatic animation?<hr></div></div></blockquote><p>Just an animation that was never removed from the CA line (though I'm sure I saw a patch note a few months ago that said it should have gone, heh). The animation is a relic from the pre-revamp CA, which did have a knockdown element from Playful Swipe onwards.</p><p>I still wouldn't pick the double attack CAs based on increased proc rates. After all the trouble SOE has gone to recently to get proc rates consistent across classes and wield types, I doubt they'll let this slip by for long.</p><p>Message Edited by overfloater on <span class="date_text">03-19-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:23 PM</span></p>

[Severed Ha]

<div><blockquote><hr>iluciferi wrote:found a pic in one of the other forums of a 1h with a 75.9 dmg rating 22 str and a power regen proc....more reason for me to choose wis<hr></blockquote>Well.. This may not be the same one.. but [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]!</div><div> </div><div><a target="_blank" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/item.vm?itemId=127252">http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/item.vm?itemId=127252</a></div><div> </div><div> </div>

[AegisCrown]

<div>fated cipherblade is the sword with a power regen proc, but it currently is supposed to go off on a beneficial spell and its also broken.</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[ilucife]

yeah it was the cipher blade that i was refering to.

[AegisCrown]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>overfloater wrote:<p>I still wouldn't pick the double attack CAs based on increased proc rates. After all the trouble SOE has gone to recently to get proc rates consistent across classes and wield types, I doubt they'll let this slip by for long.</p><hr><p>if anything that is the reason to choose the double attack proc.  soe made it so only primary weapon hits work with procs and thats why we choose to double attack with it.</p><p> </p></blockquote>

[overfloat]

<div></div>What I mean is, I doubt that SOE intended for the double attack procs to have their own chance to proc. 72% double attack in itself is increasing your DPS. I doubt they intend for us to have more than twice the normal proc rate on top of that. I see a nerf on the horizon, so I'm just making the recommendation that people don't take the WIS line solely because of the increased proc rate in case it disappears. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[AegisCrown]

<div></div><p>first respec is always 1s i guess...</p><p> </p><p><img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[ilucife]

i actually think they realize its procing off of double attack, but i doubt they change it. and "if" they do i can see them changing it from % chance to double attack to % chance to proc say a 200 dd  or something. as it stands double attack is actually 2 independent melee hits, so in reality the second attack doesnt have a reason not to proc, that would be like saying when you have a crap load of haste only every other hit should proc.as its been pointed out you only see a diff in auto attack dps, nothing major if your spamming CA's. so in raids when your busy debuffing youll see a small increase in the 5 or so seconds your not spamming anything.but i honestly if they do change it wouldnt expect anything for a few updates. they have plenty of other stuff to deal with.one the other hand i can honestly see this as a small attempt to balance out auto dps after hitting us with the offhand proc nerf.and finally as far as this being an overpowered line, there are alot more powerful than this(other classes).... but im not going to point fingers, i think we have all had our fill of nerfs in the last 3 months.

[Sadaen]

<div></div><div>NM I read it wrong ;p</div><p>Message Edited by Sadaen on <span class="date_text">03-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:32 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Sadaen on <span class="date_text">03-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:32 PM</span></p>

[tawek]

<div></div><div>Thinking about possible respecs, I've realised that a combination of strength and wisdom lines could give you a very significant increase to your defense skills:</div><div> </div><div><em><font color="#6633ff">str 4/4/8 (+25 defense)</font></em></div><div><em><font color="#6633ff">wis 4/4/8/4/8 (+15 parry +15 defense, and +8 riposte or parry )</font></em></div><div><em><font color="#6633ff">(total cost 44+1)</font></em></div><div><em><font color="#6633ff">Total: +40 defense and +23 parry (or for attacks from front: +15 parry +8 riposte )</font></em></div><div> </div><div>From what I've read, we get 2.50% avoidance for every 10 points of defense, and 1.50% avoidance for every 10 points of parry.  So that's maybe an extra 13% avoidance.  I don't think a swashie shield will do anything like that.</div><div> </div><div>But I'm unclear as to whether defense now does more than add to our avoidance.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>It used to be the case that every 5 points in a skill equated to an extra level.  I understand this changed, but I can't find an up-to-date authoritative post that deals with this.  Can anyone point me to a thread which analyses the real effect of higher defense in reducing damage?</div><div> </div><div>When a low level mob tries to hit me, he does a lot less damage than when hitting a lower level player.  Is this still based on a comparison of the mobs combat skills versus my defense skill?  Or is that no longer true?</div><p>Message Edited by tawek21 on <span class="date_text">03-24-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:04 PM</span></p>

[Keyh]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>tawek21 wrote:<div></div><div>Thinking about possible respecs, I've realised that a combination of strength and wisdom lines could give you a very significant increase to your defense skills:</div><div> </div><div><em><font color="#6633ff">str 4/4/8 (+25 defense)</font></em></div><div><em><font color="#6633ff">wis 4/4/8/4/8 (+15 parry +15 defense, and +8 riposte or parry )</font></em></div><div><em><font color="#6633ff">(total cost 44+1)</font></em></div><div><em><font color="#6633ff">Total: +40 defense and +23 parry (or for attacks from front: +15 parry +8 riposte )</font></em></div><div> </div><div>From what I've read, we get 2.50% avoidance for every 10 points of defense, and 1.50% avoidance for every 10 points of parry.  So that's maybe an extra 13% avoidance.  I don't think a swashie shield will do anything like that.<hr size="2" width="100%">Actually, you're not giving it enough credit. You get +40 defense as well as +15 parry. Which would be (if your % are correct) 10% avoidance through defense. Along with the parry 2.25%. That's a total of 12.25% from the stats alone. If I read correctly, the 3rd line Freehand reversal is in ADDITION to the avoidance. So you'll have the 8% of that which would be roughly +22.25% for frontal and +8% for side/rear. I could be wrong but that seems to be what it is.</div></blockquote></span></div>

[tawek]

<div>Thanks.  Yes, you're quite right.  I forgot freehand reversal is better than a bonus to the parry/riposte skills.  So to correct it:</div><div> </div><div><div>10% avoid from defense</div><div>2.25% from parry</div><div>8% from freehand reversal</div><div> </div><div>Won't be as much as we expect, as the game compounds rather than adds the various chances to avoid (or people could end up with over 100% avoid).</div><div>My guess is maybe 15% extra.  That's still a lot, and makes me wonder if the smaller defense from a shield from the Stamina line makes the Stamina line weaker than it appears.</div><div> </div><div>I got my % from the following great post:</div><div><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=7&message.id=15793&query.id=0#M15793http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board?board.id=33" target="_blank">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=7&message.id=15793&query.id=0#M15793http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board?board.id=33</a></div><div> </div><div>...</div><div> </div><div>But my main question is what really interests me.  Anyone know what the full effect of a higher defense is now?  Is defense still what is used to determine how hard different classes hit each other?</div></div>

[Keldo]

Did another 180 on my skills and thought I would share, this is the setup I am shooting for now.WIS: 4-6-4-8STR: 4-4-4-8-8Coule skipped because of the high number of + skill items available and the general lack of orange mobs in T7.  6 in Lunge Reversal because I'll have an extra 2 left over, figure its either that, STR2 strike or + Defense.  Defense doesn't really seem appealing and Lunge has no weapon requirement whereas Strike does.Very pleased with the wisdom line overall in regards to DPS increase, and Traumatic Swipe seems to be a winner on raids and in general with mobs using very high powered abilities.<div></div>

[Sadaen]

<div>So are you guys saying you are seeing an increase in DPS by going the wisdom route with the 66% double attack chance?</div><div> </div><div>And if you are is it from Procs IE: poison, Hurricane etc? or is it just raw DPS?</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Sadaen</div><div>59 Swashbuckler</div><div>Blackburrow</div>

[Keyh]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>tawek21 wrote:<div>Thanks.  Yes, you're quite right.  I forgot freehand reversal is better than a bonus to the parry/riposte skills.  So to correct it:</div><div> </div><div><div>10% avoid from defense</div><div>2.25% from parry</div><div>8% from freehand reversal</div><div> </div><div>Won't be as much as we expect, as the game compounds rather than adds the various chances to avoid (or people could end up with over 100% avoid).</div><div>My guess is maybe 15% extra.  That's still a lot, and makes me wonder if the smaller defense from a shield from the Stamina line makes the Stamina line weaker than it appears.<font color="#0033ff">Yes, that's probably accurate. It most likely does an avoidance check first and then if it's going to hit you do the +8% parry/riposte check.</font></div><div> </div><div> </div><div>But my main question is what really interests me.  Anyone know what the full effect of a higher defense is now?  Is defense still what is used to determine how hard different classes hit each other?<font color="#0000ff">AFAIK defense is only for avoidance. Adding defense does not change mitigation at all (that I saw). So I believe that would be the only effect it has</font></div></div><hr></blockquote></span><hr size="2" width="100%">Sadaen wrote:<span></span><div>   So are you guys saying you are seeing an increase in DPS by going the wisdom route with the 66% double attack chance?<font color="#0000ff"></font></div><div> </div><div>   And if you are is it from Procs IE: poison, Hurricane etc? or is it just raw DPS?   <font color="#0000ff">I haven't parsed any lately but theoretically with the increase in auto attack damage and procs through autoattack, there should be a decent DPS increase. </font><hr size="2" width="100%"></div></div>

[Rokjin]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sadaen wrote:<div>So are you guys saying you are seeing an increase in DPS by going the wisdom route with the 66% double attack chance?</div><div> </div><div>And if you are is it from Procs IE: poison, Hurricane etc? or is it just raw DPS?</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Sadaen</div><div>59 Swashbuckler</div><div>Blackburrow</div><hr></blockquote>Using basic math, I've posted I think both here and on Brigand boards, that 8 points in Unencumberance will give you a 29% raw DPS increase from auto-attack. This is not counting the 72% higher proc rate (including Hurricane) and the extra DPS from Hurricane proccing Double Attack, which can also proc procs.. I've hit 3 mobs that I was fighting 2 times with poison, each.. Was the level 50 max upfront damage poison, so I ended up hitting each of them with: 2 auto attacks, 2 procs of Poison damage, so.. approximately 700 damage each, per mob, times 3 mobs.

[tawek]

<div><blockquote><hr>Keldoth wrote:Did another 180 on my skills and thought I would share, this is the setup I am shooting for now.WIS: 4-6-4-8STR: 4-4-4-8-8Coule skipped because of the high number of + skill items available and the general lack of orange mobs in T7.  6 in Lunge Reversal because I'll have an extra 2 left over, figure its either that, STR2 strike or + Defense.  Defense doesn't really seem appealing and Lunge has no weapon requirement whereas Strike does.Very pleased with the wisdom line overall in regards to DPS increase, and Traumatic Swipe seems to be a winner on raids and in general with mobs using very high powered abilities.<div></div><hr></blockquote></div><div> </div><div>I think I'll respec from Agility to something similar, gonna wait till I have Sailwind first and try it out a bit before respecing.</div><div> </div><div>I'm not sure about strength 5-Traumatic Swipe.  Nice on raids, though with some mobs it might confuse jousting, but I'm more of a group than raid swashie, and mobs usually die too fast for a recast timer debuff to matter.</div><div>I'm interested you think the extra two in Wisdom-2 Lunge Reversal are worthwhile.  Looks like that would give you about an extra 140 damage on an attack that procs every 20 seconds (if you or the mob use a defensive skill).</div><div> </div><div><font color="#ccff00">Question to people with the wisdom line: </font></div><ul><li><font color="#ccffff">in practice, how often do you find Lunge Reversal is procing?</font></li></ul><div> </div><div>I'm probably more defensive-minded than most, so the defense skills boost from wisdom-5 Coule, strength-3 Blackguard's defense, and especially the riposte/parry from wisdom-3 freehand reversal look really nice.</div><div>Getting that much extra defense should end up giving me better than the defense skill of a swashie in defensive stance, even though I'm in offensive stance, which would be great when off-tanking.</div><div> </div><div><font color="#ccff00"><font color="#ccff00">Questions to people with high buffs to defense from equipment and AA skills</font>:</font></div><ul><li>There's a cap on how much you can increase your defense.  I believe this is 1 point per level over your normal defense.  Anyone around whose reached it and can confirm you no longer get an increase in avoidance after the cap?</li><li>Does the cap set a ceiling on how high your defense can go, or does it set a limit to how much your defense can be buffed?  (If the latter, if in offensive stance your max defense will be lower than when not, because the cap would be hit <em>before </em>your reduction in defense from stance was applied)  Should be easy to check by swapping defense gear in and out while capped, and seeing changes to avoidance.</li><li>(and I'd be very interested to hear from more folk about whether you think defense now has any greater effect than boosting your avoidance)</li></ul><p><font color="#ccff00">Question on strength-2 Torporous Strike</font></p><ul><li>This maxes out as a debuff that reduces chances to crit by 6%.  I was under the impression that crits occured much more rarely than 6% (unless you have an AA line which increases it), so going to adept 4 would seem to be a waste.  Has anyone noticed this debuff having much effect on mobs?  Are there mobs out there with high crit chances, where this debuff might be important to reduce spike damage?</li></ul>

[dagoo7]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr><font color="#ccff00">Question to people with the wisdom line: </font><ul><li><font color="#ccffff">in practice, how often do you find Lunge Reversal is procing?</font></li></ul><div><font color="#cc00ff">With 7 points in unencumbrance, hurricane, and pristine imbued 1h, plus haste items and effects, I am often sorrounded in a fog of small to medium-sized damage numbers.  Makes it very difficult to determine if and when lunge reversal goes off.  However, looking back at damage logs it seems to be going off once every 20 secs as given the number of attacks back and forth, there is almost definitely going to be a trigger during that period. </font></div><div><font color="#cc00ff"></font> </div><div><font color="#cc00ff">Also, IMO, the real benefit of lunge reversal is the fact that its a free decent damage CA, effectively on a 20 second timer, that does not interrupt or delay (AFAIK) your other attacks, so I would gladly sink extra points here if I had them, particularly in the setup referenced above.</font></div><p><font color="#ccff00">Question on strength-2 Torporous Strike</font></p><ul><li>This maxes out as a debuff that reduces chances to crit by 6%.  I was under the impression that crits occured much more rarely than 6% (unless you have an AA line which increases it), so going to adept 4 would seem to be a waste.  Has anyone noticed this debuff having much effect on mobs?  Are there mobs out there with high crit chances, where this debuff might be important to reduce spike damage?</li></ul><font color="#cc00ff">For PCs I've heard that the base melee crit rate is only around 1% to 1.5% and this seems to bear out in my experience.  However, I assume many mobs have passive abilities, particularly heroics and epics, that give them a much higher chance to crit.   However, 6 or so % doesn't really seem like that much of a net damage reduction unless its a long fight or a very hard hitting raid mob.  In addition the damage is so low that it was really not worth using in my attack chain when soloing(at least with 4 points).  Don't miss it at all since respeccing.  However, it could be situationally useful in ways, particularly raiding, of which I am not aware or have no experience.</font><hr></blockquote><p>Message Edited by dagoo7 on <span class="date_text">03-31-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:23 AM</span></p>

[Rokjin]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>tawek21 wrote:<div> </div><div><font color="#ccff00">Question to people with the wisdom line: </font></div><ul><li><font color="#ccffff">in practice, how often do you find Lunge Reversal is procing?</font></li></ul><div> </div><div>I'm probably more defensive-minded than most, so the defense skills boost from wisdom-5 Coule, strength-3 Blackguard's defense, and especially the riposte/parry from wisdom-3 freehand reversal look really nice.</div><div>Getting that much extra defense should end up giving me better than the defense skill of a swashie in defensive stance, even though I'm in offensive stance, which would be great when off-tanking.</div><hr></blockquote><p>I've been parsing my fights.. and, it's hard to say. It goes off atleast once every 20 seconds MINIMUM. Since it goes off on any of your own parry/ripostes or the enemies parries/ripostes/blocks/deflections, it's pretty much guaranteed to go off once every 20 seconds.</p><p>In reality, it goes off more then that right now. It might be a bug with encounters or so on, but at one point when I was farming Treants in Nek for Treant L&L (at level 50), it was going off on every riposte/parry. In a 30 second fight it went off 10 times. This also sent my DPS through the roof, and I did /bug it then.. Since then it seems to sometimes go off more often then every 20 seconds. May be something to do with different encounters also.</p><p>When it hits, it does roughly 150-300 damage, at rank 4, at level 54 (atm) Next rank shows it going up another 20 or so points of damage on min/max. So it's actually a pretty decent DPS source.</p>

[ilucife]

wait a sec.... you /bugged something that is giving you extra dmg?!?!?! why? fist off they have never said how its supposed to work, therefore its not really broken.last time they tried to "fix" our dps(offhand procs), they broke another skill(insparation line) and i really dont want a "fix" for this spilling over to En Garde, which i can see happening since they work on the same principal.

[overfloat]

<div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr><p>iluciferi wrote:wait a sec.... you /bugged something that is giving you extra dmg?!?!?! why?</p><p></p><hr></blockquote><p>Er, because it's a bug? <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p><blockquote><p> </p><hr>fist off they have never said how its supposed to work, therefore its not really broken.<hr></blockquote><p>I don't have LR but, unless it's changed drastically since I last checked, the description used to read "<em>The <strong>next time</strong> the Fencer or an emeny attacking the Fencer uses a defenseive maneuver...</em>"</p><p>"Next time" = one time only. Since it auto-refreshes the buff once ever 20 seconds (?), it should only proc once every 20 seconds maximum. Anything more than that is a bug.</p>

[Keldo]

I've never really noticed it going off more than it should, but I never pulled a pile of grey mobs to test it or anything.  My reasoning behind upgrading it with the couple extra points at the end is basically that it is free damage that is always on.  I don't really get parried, riposted, or deflected a lot in normal grouping, but on raids when I go around flank to use Razor Point there is a decent chance of it happening, not to mention brawler mobs.  It's also nice when soloing, obviously.<div></div>

[Mathe]

<div></div>I did try pulling a group of grays, only the first one procced it. I killed the rest before waiting to make sure the refresh was working right. That was awhile ago though when I did it, so maybe something changed.

[tawek]

<div><div>To Keldoth, Dagoo7, and Rokjin,</div><div> </div><div>Thanks for the replies re. Lunge Reversal procing.  That makes sense.  If Lunge Reversal procs in most fights, it's clearly a better ability than I had thought.</div><div> </div><div>Looking from the description, it makes sense that it does.  "The next time the Fencer or an enemy attacking the Fencer uses a defensive maneuver to avoid an attack, the Fencer returns with a melee attack" ... every 20 seconds.  And as I am often flanking rather than attacking from the rear, that will happen in most dps situations, as well as when tanking or soloing.</div><div> </div><div>I've done an analyis of the level 4 agility skill Avast Ye.  This procs about 115-192 for flank/rear attacks, but at rank 4 it seems to only proc 8% per 3 seconds, less than once every fight in an average group.</div><div> </div><div>If the Wisdom level 2 skill Lunge Reversal does 249-416 in most fights, it will probably generate over twice the dps, and will work when soloing and tanking, as well as dpsing.  As Wisdom also gives you significant dps from Unencumberence, some from Freehand Reversal ripostes, and the skills boost from Coule, it is now looking a far better option than Agility.</div><div> </div><div>For those who like numbers, I've done an investigation into the damage done by Avast Ye in the following post:</div><div><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=33&message.id=10521#M10521" target="_blank">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=33&message.id=10521#M10521</a></div><div> </div></div>

[tawek]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Rokjin wrote:<div></div><p>...and I did /bug it then.. Since then it seems to sometimes go off more often then every 20 seconds....</p><hr></blockquote>Good for you.  Good for the game to fix these bugs, and maybe good for swashies too.  If the devs feel good about us, because we are reporting bugs or exploits available to our class, that's probably good for us all in the long run.</div>

[Franco2254]

<div>Got 4-4-4-8 so far in the wisdom line. Is Coule worth the 8 points? Or should i invest the rest into Str?</div><div> </div><div>Brownwolf Shadowblade</div><div>70 Swashbuckler</div><div>Dracos Argent, Butcherblock</div>

[Keyh]

<div></div>Not sure of the equation to figure out the +slash/pierce/ranged but (as stated earlier in the topic) every 10 defense grants an extra 2.5% avoidance and every 10 parry grants an extra 1.5% parry. Let's assume (for simplicity's sake) you get +15 everything from Coule. That's an extra 3.75% avoidance and 2.25% parry. Also, you get additions to slashing/piercing/ranged which helps offset the defensive stance and adds even more when in offensive. I believe this will really help with Orange con mobs and also with tanking/soloing.It looks like you're going the damage route however, so I would probably suggest not getting Coule.<p>Message Edited by Keyh on <span class="date_text">04-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:28 PM</span></p>

[Zygwen]

I was going to get Coule but after reading the comments of Katsuki from Bane I decided I'd dump those points in strength line instead. The reason being that I'm a raiding swashy first, solo tank second. The reason I wanted Coule was for solo and in the end I couldn't justify spending points there.<div></div>

[Foolsfolly]

<div></div>I've gotten multiple Lunge Reversals much faster than every 20 seconds before, though I can't seem to reproduce the effect consistantly. This skill seems kind of buggy to me.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Foolsfolly on <span class=date_text>05-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:21 AM</span>

[Rokjin]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Franco2254 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Got 4-4-4-8 so far in the wisdom line. Is Coule worth the 8 points? Or should i invest the rest into Str?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>It depends on things. In PVP it's great. For soloing it's great. For raiding, it depends on your to-hit. If your getting skill buffs already, then you won't gain much from Coule, but if your having trouble hitting stuff, ie: less then 80% hit rate, you'll get a good bit of accuracy from it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My Berserker friend is extremely jealous of Coule, as it gives me quite a bit of avoidance actually. As a note, 10 def is not straight 2.5% avoidance. It depends on your level, and scales down with more defense, ie: nearing the defense cap you get less per point then at your 'normal' level.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's hard to gauge it's effect on offense, but I can say that Coule gives me roughly ~8% avoidance, maybe up to 10%. Away from my normal computer this weekend so can't check directly, but it is worth quite a bit.<BR></DIV>

[SageGaspar]

<div><blockquote><hr>Rokjin wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Franco2254 wrote: <div>Got 4-4-4-8 so far in the wisdom line. Is Coule worth the 8 points? Or should i invest the rest into Str?</div> <hr> </blockquote> <div>It depends on things. In PVP it's great. For soloing it's great. For raiding, it depends on your to-hit. If your getting skill buffs already, then you won't gain much from Coule, but if your having trouble hitting stuff, ie: less then 80% hit rate, you'll get a good bit of accuracy from it.</div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>If you're raiding at the level cap right now it's not worth much, almost all the mobs are yellow or just slightly orange, and with all the defense debuffs and your dauntless advance and the armor with to-hit mods, it's just not really an issue.STR5 is useful enough that at least one of your rogues should have it, and if you're going WIS line with that, I'm pretty positive you'll see better results if you back off WIS5 and put the points in STR4 or WIS4.</div>

[sstair]

<div></div>Here is an out of game copy of the in game AA UI.<blockquote><a target="_blank" href="http://home.austin.rr.com/sstair/EQ2/AA/Rogue/">http://home.austin.rr.com/sstair/EQ2/AA/Rogue/</a></blockquote>I was bored, and copied <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=10&message.id=21483&jump=true" target="_blank"><span>KamidariTuibumbi</span></a><a target="_blank"><span></span></a>'s idea.<div></div>

[adamflanagan]

<DIV>nice idea, should be quite useful!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>one note, when you click on blackguard's luck the image for evasiveness is displayed to the right, tooltip is fine though.</DIV>

[Rokjin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> sstair wrote:<BR> Here is an out of game copy of the in game AA UI.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><A href="http://home.austin.rr.com/sstair/EQ2/AA/Rogue/" target=_blank>http://home.austin.rr.com/sstair/EQ2/AA/Rogue/</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I was bored, and copied <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=10&message.id=21483&jump=true" target=_blank><SPAN>KamidariTuibumbi</SPAN></A><A target=_blank><SPAN></SPAN></A>'s idea.<BR><BR><BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You may also want to state what level those AA pictures were taken at. Seems to be something in the 40's or 50's, since Coule is only giving 13.2 in that screenshot, while for me at 67 it gives ~16 or so. Once I hit 70, I am willing to provide you the screenshots, but that may take a while.

[sstair]

<div></div><a href="../view_profile?user.id=80824" target="top"><span>adamflanagan</span></a> : Thanks for pointing out the bug, it has been fixed.<a href="../view_profile?user.id=226225" target="top"><span>Rokjin</span></a>  : Thanks for the suggestion, I added that to the page.<div></div>

[khurath]

<P>I don't have yet invested any points, but since I'm comin up fast I've already begun to plan my routes.<BR>Actually I don't raid, but I plan to, albeit not too often.<BR>I can say that I like to solo and group/raid with the same frequency, and seek thus to balance attack and defense.<BR>Initial points will thus be spent like that:</P> <P>STR: 4 4 4<BR>WIS: 4 4 4 4 8</P> <P>What should I do with the remaining points?</P> <P>Since this setup seems a little unbalanced towards Attack, I considered to boost the Blackguard defense and the Freehand reversal, then to go on AGI line to boost my AGI (I'd like to have a really good avoidance).<BR>Freehand reversal seems particularly good because having invested so many points in the WIS line I would not want to spoil it completely by wearing a shield for a particularly hard-hitting foe; furthermore, it increases also dps, as with the increased riposte/parry chance, Lunge reversal will go off more often (when soloing).</P> <P>On the other hand maxxing unencumbrance boosts not only dps, but poison procs also, and with debuff-stun/stifle poisons can help quite a bit (then there is also a dps increase, which can help also: after all it's said that "best defence is attack")</P> <P>Perhaps I should let AGI and maxx out unencumbrance, and spend the remaining points on strike or STR boost.</P> <P>What do you say?</P> <P>I was also interested in Walk the Plank; it seems a fun spell, but I cannot see any practical use for it, is anyone using this?<BR>And also, with the dps increasewe generate more hate.<BR>Can we unleash full dps without fearing aggro? In groups it's already bad enough to get aggro if you don't want to, but in raids it seems to me potentially deadly (maybe Walk the Plank can gain you those 2 sec to deaggro?).</P>

[nodaisho]

<DIV>walk the plank could be used to get a chance to backstab when solo or turn the monster away from the softie it is beating on while grouped.</DIV>

[SageGaspar]

<div><blockquote><hr>khurath wrote:<div></div> <p>I don't have yet invested any points, but since I'm comin up fast I've already begun to plan my routes.Actually I don't raid, but I plan to, albeit not too often.I can say that I like to solo and group/raid with the same frequency, and seek thus to balance attack and defense.Initial points will thus be spent like that:</p> <p>STR: 4 4 4WIS: 4 4 4 4 8</p> <p>What should I do with the remaining points?</p> <p>Since this setup seems a little unbalanced towards Attack, I considered to boost the Blackguard defense and the Freehand reversal, then to go on AGI line to boost my AGI (I'd like to have a really good avoidance).Freehand reversal seems particularly good because having invested so many points in the WIS line I would not want to spoil it completely by wearing a shield for a particularly hard-hitting foe; furthermore, it increases also dps, as with the increased riposte/parry chance, Lunge reversal will go off more often (when soloing).</p> <p>On the other hand maxxing unencumbrance boosts not only dps, but poison procs also, and with debuff-stun/stifle poisons can help quite a bit (then there is also a dps increase, which can help also: after all it's said that "best defence is attack")</p> <p>Perhaps I should let AGI and maxx out unencumbrance, and spend the remaining points on strike or STR boost.</p> <p>What do you say?</p> <p>I was also interested in Walk the Plank; it seems a fun spell, but I cannot see any practical use for it, is anyone using this?And also, with the dps increasewe generate more hate.Can we unleash full dps without fearing aggro? In groups it's already bad enough to get aggro if you don't want to, but in raids it seems to me potentially deadly (maybe Walk the Plank can gain you those 2 sec to deaggro?).</p><hr></blockquote>Aggro problems go away by the end of the game when you'll be raiding, Adept 3 Avoid Censure + Elude + deaggro poison are your friends. Unencumbrance does not actually boost procs at all, just autoattack. It's interesting for style and has the advantage if you get a really nice one-hander over a same-quality pair of dual wields. That said I'd be interested in why you chose to take WIS5. I would also recommend against taking straight stats like AGI. I'd say the extra damage you gain to kill the mobs faster is much better than the defensive ones you could take unless you plan on tanking groups.If I were looking for a balance between solo and doing damage on raids I would think pretty heavily about walk the plank and boot dagger, the first one gives you some quality time behind the mob and the second one drops you into stealth immediately so you can use your stealth attack more often. I'm using one of the more standard builds, WIS 4-4-4-8 STR 4-4-4-8-8, that maxes out your double attacks for the one-hander and also your crit percentage while giving you STR5, which if you read the description is invaluable on raids (doesn't hurt while grouping either). If I preferred dual wields I'd be looking at that same setup with the STR line and possibly INT or AGI, maybe some mix of the two.</div>

[Krontak]

<DIV>I ended up doing this route and am happy so far.  I raid a bit and solo/group sometimes tanking so it seemed to work well with my playstyle.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>STR 4-5-4-8</DIV> <DIV>WIS 4-4-4-8</DIV> <DIV>AGI 4-2</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maxed out crit hit and double attack.  Plus the Walk the Plank is great to ensure you can keep Lung Puncture, Plunder, and guile up the whole time and also if you need to sneak in a one of your Master Strikes that may be up.  Don't think I'd want to go any other way.  Walk the plank definatly makes up for the nerf to our stuning abilities imho.</DIV>

[Tuna]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rokjin wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Franco2254 wrote:<BR> <DIV>Got 4-4-4-8 so far in the wisdom line. Is Coule worth the 8 points? Or should i invest the rest into Str?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>It depends on things. In PVP it's great. For soloing it's great. For raiding, it depends on your to-hit. If your getting skill buffs already, then you won't gain much from Coule, but if your having trouble hitting stuff, ie: less then 80% hit rate, you'll get a good bit of accuracy from it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My Berserker friend is extremely jealous of Coule, as it gives me quite a bit of avoidance actually. As a note, 10 def is not straight 2.5% avoidance. It depends on your level, and scales down with more defense, ie: nearing the defense cap you get less per point then at your 'normal' level.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's hard to gauge it's effect on offense, but I can say that Coule gives me roughly ~8% avoidance, maybe up to 10%. Away from my normal computer this weekend so can't check directly, but it is worth quite a bit.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Keep in mind the the Heroic Opportunity that allows you to keep your offensive skills augmented continuously.  I am careful to keep it up at all times (isn't hard as it lasts for a long time).  With that in mind I wouldn't give coule a second thought.</DIV>

[Rokjin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tuna99 wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR>Keep in mind the the Heroic Opportunity that allows you to keep your offensive skills augmented continuously.  I am careful to keep it up at all times (isn't hard as it lasts for a long time).  With that in mind I wouldn't give coule a second thought.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>From the Berserkers point of view, in D Stance, even with that HO going his accuracy is still below 80-90%, so it would be great for him to have. It's also nice being able to have 100% accuracy in D stance when I'm PvPing or soloing, as every 1% lost of accuracy is 1% less damage your doing, and possibly a debuff that didn't land. Also, I self-cap my Defense just by going into D stance, which makes a large difference in PvP.

[Hammerhead70]

good stuff, thx

[Laomie]

<P>First off - AA line im using now: 4 4 4 8 agi , 4 5 4 8 8 wis... think thats right lol, its 4:23am here so cut me some slack <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>basically i have 8 into Avast Ye, 8 into Unemcumberance and 8 into Coule.</P> <P>Using a Chel Shard ive noticed a huge increase in damage with Avaste Ye and Coule than doing the str line for crits and Tswipe. There are alot of skill mods yes in the game but as at least 40 to 50percent of our main dps seems to be autoattack, the easier it is to hit to mob, the more dps we do.</P> <P>Tswipe in EOF content seems [I cannot control my vocabulary] imo, resisted alot on mobs and having to range some fights e.t.c e.t.c is just not worth the time and hastle, especially making the AE times fluctuate if it drops, gets resisted e.t.c</P> <P>From what i read at the start of this post (yes i skipped a few) if we get a 72percent more chance to proc cause we can proc off every attack (even a DA) then Avaste Ye, owns crit chance in my opinion. Yes you may be able to crit 14percent more, but you can still get low crits for like 300-400, an top end ones of 1700. Having a 16percent chance, 24 with blessings and luck of the dirge, to proc at top end of 860 is killer. Now im gonna assume that 16 per attack, including the 2nd attack from a DA.</P> <P>basically: Top end raid dps with str, wis i was parsing 1990.... after the respec - 2560 in T7, 2700 in a courts farming run</P>

[JeremieJ]

<DIV>I've been reading this thread and it looks like a lot of people are going WIS/STR with the AAs.  I'd like to focus on doing max dps with whatever AA setup I go with, but I'd also like to continue to duel-wield.  If the WIS/STR setup is clearly better, DPS wise, than the other AA setups I'd consider it.  Is there a setup that duel-wield Swashies are going with to maximize their DPS?  I'm not max level yet, but I've always liked planning ahead for these types of things.  Any suggestions?  Thanks in advance!</DIV>

[SmCaudata]

<div><blockquote><hr>JeremieJ wrote:<div>I've been reading this thread and it looks like a lot of people are going WIS/STR with the AAs.  I'd like to focus on doing max dps with whatever AA setup I go with, but I'd also like to continue to duel-wield.  If the WIS/STR setup is clearly better, DPS wise, than the other AA setups I'd consider it.  Is there a setup that duel-wield Swashies are going with to maximize their DPS?  I'm not max level yet, but I've always liked planning ahead for these types of things.  Any suggestions?  Thanks in advance!</div><hr></blockquote>STR/AGI is the best dual wield setup for DPS as long as you flank the mobs.  Really, when flanking/behind it is probably as good as the wisdom line if you get some nice weapons like GDoH and DoN.</div>

[JeremieJ]

<DIV>Thanks for reply!  I'll have to look into a STR/AGI build then. :smileyhappy:</DIV>

[Rokjin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Laomie wrote:<BR> <P>First off - AA line im using now: 4 4 4 8 agi , 4 5 4 8 8 wis... think thats right lol, its 4:23am here so cut me some slack <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>basically i have 8 into Avast Ye, 8 into Unemcumberance and 8 into Coule.</P> <P>Using a Chel Shard ive noticed a huge increase in damage with Avaste Ye and Coule than doing the str line for crits and Tswipe. There are alot of skill mods yes in the game but as at least 40 to 50percent of our main dps seems to be autoattack, the easier it is to hit to mob, the more dps we do.</P> <P>Tswipe in EOF content seems [I cannot control my vocabulary] imo, resisted alot on mobs and having to range some fights e.t.c e.t.c is just not worth the time and hastle, especially making the AE times fluctuate if it drops, gets resisted e.t.c</P> <P>From what i read at the start of this post (yes i skipped a few) if we get a 72percent more chance to proc cause we can proc off every attack (even a DA) then Avaste Ye, owns crit chance in my opinion. Yes you may be able to crit 14percent more, but you can still get low crits for like 300-400, an top end ones of 1700. Having a 16percent chance, 24 with blessings and luck of the dirge, to proc at top end of 860 is killer. Now im gonna assume that 16 per attack, including the 2nd attack from a DA.</P> <P>basically: Top end raid dps with str, wis i was parsing 1990.... after the respec - 2560 in T7, 2700 in a courts farming run</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You actually don't get a second chance to proc with Avast Ye on the Double Attack. Shortly after they put in Double Attack, it was changed so that procs could not go off on the second attack except for 100% procs like Inspiration.</P> <P>With the proc increases now, yes, Avast Ye could be comparable to STR crit boost, especially if your always behind the mob (ie, don't solo or PvP much). I may do some more math on it with the new system when I update my analysis after the forum wipe.</P>

[Laomie]

<p>Yea Rok, it was late when i posted that haha, realised after an couldnt be bothered to edit it Lol <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> If yourself or anyone could do the math on that - it would definatly be appreciated, i dont even trust myself with a calculator.</p><p> I think it it comparable if not a slight increase, i mean yea dependant on the group, but with DKTM, Blessings, Luck of the Dirge, i have 12% melee crit, and a 24% chance to proc Avast Ye, normally 4% and 16% chance.</p><p> Prefer this set up for sure, im makin the assassins an necro's sweat now on the parser LOL</p>

[Jaggid]

Does someone have up to date information that isn't buried in 17 pages of crap?