Top swashy DPS

[m0ya]

<div></div><div>I'm still new to raiding and I was wondering up to where swashy can DPS without getting aggro. Can a MT handle ID or it's too much damage. Last night I pulled aggro with Hail of Steel. I use "Elude" every time he's up, but I don't know if I can cast all my CA's without getting aggro, I don't really want to try to don't wipe the raid. lol.</div><div> </div><div>Also, in gates last night, while fighting Dinree, our ranger did over 150K of damage, I did about 50K.... this is a huge difference. And he died twice but got rez in less than 10sec. So I'm wondering if I try to do a lot more damage than what I'm doing atm, will I get the aggro??</div><div> </div><div>If anyone can help me, please do!</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>-Moya-</div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by m0ya on <span class="date_text">01-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:10 AM</span></p>

[Keldo]

If you have swarthy diversion on.. well anyone, you will basically never draw aggro unless the tank is slacking off.Without it, you gotta be really careful.  Especially with hail of steel at the start of fights.Here's what I do.  Throw diversion on a tank if you have one in your group, if you don't have a tank, just put it on a healer or something, they won't draw aggro anyway.  Use elude every time it comes up.  At the start of fights, use your aggro blade (Devious Blade) to give the tank extra hate before you start your lineup.  Run off all your CAs, use shadow slip.  Fire up Ruthless Cunning and use CAs/Elude as they refresh.  When the mob is at about 50%, use Finess.  When the mob is at 20%, use ID.  Use Shadow Slip every time it comes up.I have absolutely never drawn aggro doing like this, the only time I ever get aggro is when I don't use the aggro transfer.  If you don't have the aggro transfer you really have to hold back some or at least save shadow slip.With Hail of Steel, its basically the same deal.  Don't use it in the first 10 seconds of a fight, don't use it until like 60% if you don't have aggro transfer on someone.  If you do have aggro transfer, there's not much risk of you getting aggro unless you use it while the mob is inc or something.<div></div>

[m0ya]

<div></div>I'm in the DPS group and we have no tank in it. So I always save Shadow slip in case I get the aggro.

[Keldo]

you will be very limited without the aggro transfer, I'd ask for a berserker or bruiser in the dps group if I were you~<div></div>

[m0ya]

<div></div>Bruiser is so close to take aggro every time.. lol. I asked for a guardian because they don't hit too much (No offense). <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Iseabeil]

<div>I rarely get chance to use hate transfer in our normal setups, nowdays its rare I pull agro tho. Use Elude and Slip every time ye can, focus on debuffing in beginning, Dazzling Steel and Lung Puncture will help the MT and healers a good bit especially in beginning when the mob goes all outish. Swashies do good DPS, keeping it debuffed is more important then topping DPS tho, we can rarely outdps a tier1 class in the long run, we can always out debuff em tho :p</div><div>As for the high hitters, avoid using HoS till mob is around orange till ye have a good feel for agro, worst thing ye can do is pull mob over to the healers :p When it comes to ID, I must say I cant remember last time I used it on t6 raids, the long cast of it combined with jousting means yer likely to end up wasting most of duration hiding away and as it only triggers on mainhand, I dun even bother with it except for fun. I dun know how yer raid force is when it comes to rezzers, as healers shouldnt bother with it, but they should get ye up as soon as possible, Id rez a rogue before a pred if I was one mainly because of our debuffs not bein on mob when we lay sprawled on ground.</div><div> </div><div>ps. upgrade elude to adept3 before anything else, with Shadow Slip at tier5 and hate transfer not being sure thing, this can make a big differance. Avoid is goodie too, less usefull then last year tho.</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Syrano]

I consider aggro transfer to be a tank aid, not an aggro avoider for us.  We have avoid blame, slip and elude for that.  Aggro transfers can seriously break if you stack them, so you have to be careful who you're putting ours on and frankly, ours is one of the weakest in game.  Be wary if other scouts are using theirs or if you have pallies/guardians in the raid.  When in doubt, don't use it.Taking aggro is extremely rare for me, you have to be warry of front loading all your debuffs.  But it's a "feel" thing. You'll get to know your guild, your main tanks, your raiding tactics and learn what you can and can't do.  It'll change with every tank, and possibly every raid.  It's as much instinctive as anything else.If you have access to a good log parser, keep tabs on where you fall in the dps chain, if you're not in your guild top tier damage output (say, top 5) you'll  have little to worry about.  If you're placing top 5 a lot, I'd be wary of your debuffs + dps making you a magnet.  Watch the raid fights, especially when things start to go bad.  Whent he main tank dies, or loses aggro, try and get a feel for who he/she loses it to.  When the raid starts to wipe, at what point to the mobs come to kill you?  These things will all tell you where you have to worry.  If you're 2nd or 3rd in the kill list, you need to be careful <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Keldo]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div>ok scratch what I had written there I decided to actually justify my position instead of just saying 'use it' in as many ways possible.Basically, lets think about the times that you draw aggro.vs mobs with no or little AE going on, which are mobs that are easy as pie, this is when we deal the most DPS, this is when we get the most aggro.  These mobs are also the ones that require the least healing.  Thus, stick it on a healer and there is no risk that the healer will ever get aggro.  This changes a little if it is an orange mob with no AE, but your debuffs are even more important on those - switch to a DPS tank in  your group if you get a healer killed (I've never seen it happen, tho just sayin)vs mobs with one AE you are jousting, your dps is going to be relatively similar to the one mentioned above, except with breaks when you dodge the AE.  Resist the urge to use HOS while you wait for the call back in.  All its gonna do is get you aggro you don't want.  Vs a yellow  mob of this type, you are safe on a healer.  Vs an orange, I'd say put it on bruiser/berserker.  Odds are they aren't going full out DPS anyway due to the AE risk (unless your guild is super tight on timing them, so use your own judgement here), and either way, your debuffs and dps > theirs anyway.vs mobs with 2 AEs that you are only going in to debuff, your dps is going to be pretty terrible and there's not much you can do about it.  Aggro is not going to be much of an issue here, and if it is I'm wondering how you last 30 seconds on the other types.  Throw it on tank on these mobs because they are basically cheerleading or afk anyway.I see no reason to forgo using it completely unless you are a machoist or your GM is giving you one of those [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] scout/caster dps only groups which are stupid and pointless anyway.As for stacking issues, I don't really know why you'd have someone assigned to leech you - but do make sure they are not leeching someone else before you go throwing yours up.  It's pretty rare that they would throw a guardian or paladin in specifically to leech someone cept on very specific mobs and even then odds are you aren't in that group if that is the case.  If your GM is sending someone specifically to leech you, tell them to grab a brig/warlock/wiz/conj/necro instead, or maybe just give you a troubador?<p>Message Edited by Keldoth on <span class="date_text">01-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:14 PM</span></p>

[Success]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><p>Avoid blame is not enough of a hate transfer proc for it to be beneficial. Swarthy diversion IS a hate transfer. Has nothing to do with adding more hate ot a tank. Has to do with removing it from us. Without it, I get agro a LOT and die a LOT. If Avoid Blame/Censure worked better, then we wouldn't have to have Swarthy diversion all the time or die.</p><p>I still think Avoid Censure sucks from what it says it's supposed to do. If it worked like the descritopn said, we shouldn't be getting as much hate as we do.</p><p>Syrano, you must not raid in the places I do because I can pop Lung Puncture and another debuff and immediately get agro after the tanks have taunted several rounds. It's not all places but places like FoL, PP2, etc. is really bad.</p><p>They simply need to do away with resisted taunts. All there is to it and they need to fix Avoid Censure so that it does what it says it does. It may be procing but it can't be removing as much hate as it says it does.</p><p><span class="time_text">Why should we be careful? What good is us being in #2 DPS tier if we have to backoff and loose a LOT of our DPS in order to manage our hate as much as we do? We have to manage our hate (unless I have swarthy diversion on someone) more than [Removed for Content] wizards. What good is our debuffs and DPS then if we can't use it? Again, skills that are supposed to help seem to be broke.</span></p><p><span class="time_text">Having to manage so much puts us in tier 4 DPS and that's not right. If we are supposed to be tier 2 DPS, then we need to be able to do tier 2 DPS without having to manage it to the point of tier 4 DPS.</span></p><p>Message Edited by Successer on <span class="date_text">01-29-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:06 PM</span></p>

[Iseabeil]

<div>I cant speak for wether Avoid decrease hate as much as it says it should, I do know that it happened plenty of times when I been tank in small group, forgot to turn it off, and all of a sudden the mob turns and beat on the templar that hasnt even cast a heal yet.</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Syrano]

Two comments.  First, it stands to reason if evades/taunts can be resisted then so to can the proc from Avoid Censure.  Second, you're right, keeping my aggro down has not been challenging for me but I hvae  yet to go to FoL or a few other places, several t6 raid zones hasn't been an issue for me yet though.  Therefor, it stands to reason, if only certain zones have this issue and/or only certain mobs then it is not an endemic problem with the class.  Rather, something specifc about our debuffs that makes mobs rather... angry at us.Given the power our debuffs have (dropping the effective level of the mob by 3 - 5 levels) I'm not suprised.  Managing it all is part of the gameplay for me.  You can go balls to the wall for DPS sure... but we are NOT a dps class, we are a debuff class with good DPS.  Our function on raids is debuffs and some utility (aggro transfer).  Rangers/Warlocks/Wizzies are the DPS role on raids.I could care less what my DPS on a raid is so long as I can get the right debuffs on the mob.  DPS is extra, those debuffs are what will really help the raid.Again all that's my opinion.  However my hunch is that they intend certain utility class to really get a spanking in certain encounters.  Brigands get spanked for their AE immunity in many places, I'm positive that's by design.  If we didn't have to manage, this game would get way easier than it already is.  How boring would it be to stand there and just be able to unleash?<div></div>

[Success]

<div></div><div></div><p>Brigands getting spanked because of their AOE immunity has a good reason. They are one of the only 2 people in there hitting it and in close range. If you had 12 people in there hitting it, etc., then they wouldn't get agro near as quick. Only other person in there during AOE is the main tank with taunts getting resisted.</p><p>I disagree that we are not DPS. They put out the DPS list and have us as tier 2 on the DPS list. We can't be tier 2 if we have to manage our DPS so much that it puts us at tier 4.</p><p>Maybe our Avoid Censure is getting resisted. Could very well be the case. Either way, it's not doing the job it says it should be doing in the description, whatever the reason.</p><p>Message Edited by Successer on <span class="date_text">01-30-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:23 PM</span></p>

[Tybr]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><p><span class="time_text">delete...would be a repeat of previously stated information.</span></p><p>Message Edited by Tybr on <span class="date_text">02-12-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:27 PM</span></p>

[Dark_Sun]

<div></div>the highest DPS i can make is around 4.5k. That is a falling damage i can make on myself  if i find high enough mountain to kill myself.

[Luk]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Dark_Sun wrote:<div></div>the highest DPS i can make is around 4.5k. That is a falling damage i can make on myself  if i find high enough mountain to kill myself.<hr></blockquote>I guess you're not counting fall time <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />