How are Swahbucklers End-game?

[leoneo10]

Ok so, i Play a level 43 Necromancer, and I've been wanting to roll a scout class (got it narrowed down to Ranger and Swashy), and i been wondering how do you do End-game? 1.) First of all will groups want me? 2.) Next what kind of weapon options do i have? (dual wield daggers, can i dual weild swords etc.) (sry if these are kinda noobish havent played in a while)  3.) How does a Swashbucklers DPS compare to rangers? (be honost) 4.) Are there any poisons out there that only Shwashbucklers can use or only Rangers can use? and also Do poisons proc any different than a Rangers would, if so how? 5.) Is the class fun (for the record i like being more close to the fight) 6.) What kind of Ranged abilities using a bow does the swashbucker have (i hate throwing weapons) 7.)  I like to raid alot where do you stand in raids? (seems kinda weird to ... you know... bring a pirate along to slay a dragon...)<div></div>

[AratornCalahn]

This sounds like a classic "tell me your class is good so I can get the devs to nerf you" post... watch out swashys<div></div>

[the flu]

<span><blockquote><hr>leoneo10 wrote:Ok so, i Play a level 43 Necromancer, and I've been wanting to roll a scout class (got it narrowed down to Ranger and Swashy), and i been wondering how do you do End-game? 1.) First of all will groups want me?<font color="#ffff00">Depends on the group. Theres better dps but we are fairly well rounded.</font> 2.) Next what kind of weapon options do i have? (dual wield daggers, can i dual weild swords etc.) (sry if these are kinda noobish havent played in a while)<font color="#ffff00"> <font color="#ffff00">Anything that says dual weild you can use. Daggers, swords, axes. but not clubs.</font></font>  3.) How does a Swashbucklers DPS compare to rangers? (be honost)<font color="#ffff00">Rangers have higher dps if simmilerly equiped and upgraded.</font> 4.) Are there any poisons out there that only Shwashbucklers can use or only Rangers can use? and also Do poisons proc any different than a Rangers would, if so how?<font color="#ffff00">Poison is poison is poison. Any poison class can use any poison. Procs are normalized over three seconds, so over time both (Rangers and swashies) will proc at the same rate. Due to the mechanics though, on any particular attack a ranger has a higher chance to proc a poison.</font> 5.) Is the class fun (for the record i like being more close to the fight)<font color="#ffff00">Yes.</font> 6.) What kind of Ranged abilities using a bow does the swashbucker have (i hate throwing weapons)<font color="#ffff00">With bows theres auto attack. Oh, and autoattack. We also get this autoattack ability. Or you can use a throwing weapon and use ca's. </font> 7.)  I like to raid alot where do you stand in raids? (seems kinda weird to ... you know... bring a pirate along to slay a dragon...)<font color="#ffff00">Depends on the raid mob. Sometimes you stand next to it, some times you stand father away and throw things at it. Other times you don't stand at all- you move around to maximise debuffs and damage.</font><div></div><hr></blockquote></span><div></div>

[bloodrage42]

<div>Swashbucklers Are nothing but the best. They beat any other rogue in every way. ive Put out more dps than any other class i know of Consistently outranging assassins brigands rangers bruisers monks etc. aslong as you can play your toon right and have the right spells being casted at the right time youll be the best dps imaginable.</div><div> </div><div> Chaosranger -60 swash toxx server *redemption* :smileyhappy:</div>

[Tasaz]

Level 60 swashie here that raids 3-4 times a week. Just thought I'd post my thoughts.... 1.) First of all will groups want me?We are a good dps class. Groups should want you at lower levels just for the dps. Later on, people may learn to understand just how useful your debuffs are. 2.) Next what kind of weapon options do i have? (dual wield daggers, can i dual weild swords etc.) (sry if these are kinda noobish havent played in a while)I always carry 2 piercing and 2 slashing weapons.  Some mobs are pierce immune/resistant and others slash.  Especially raid mobs.  I prefer piercing weapons myself because the slashing weapons all have such a low delay that I'm hitting the haste cap with the bravado line and my 20% haste belt, not to mention having a beserker and/or enchanter in the group.  3.) How does a Swashbucklers DPS compare to rangers? (be honest)Well, before the big nerf to hurricane and off-hand weapon proc, we were stellar.  Now, we are just good.  We will NOT come close to Ranger dps.  Because rangers primarily use bows for their CAs, they are not nearly as much affected by the off-hand weapon proc nerf.  They proc a lot more often.  Their CAs also do a lot more damage.  All in all, a ranger will absolutely out-dps a swashbuckler by a large margin if they know what they are doing.  I know a lot of swashies will cry about this and say it's not true, but it is.  I run combat-stats and can show you logs.  Most of the time our ranger will almost double me and I'm far better equipped than he is.  I have 14 non-upgradeable Masters and all the rest are Adept 3.  I have 2 really nice fabled blades (Foreman's Shank and Menacing Razor) and almost full-fabled armor.  My strength is near 400 with just my own gear and buffs, but I still cannot come close to the damage our ranger puts out since the off-hand nerf and the hurricane nerf.  Before those 2 were nerfed, I could surpass the ranger. 4.) Are there any poisons out there that only Shwashbucklers can use or only Rangers can use? and also Do poisons proc any different than a Rangers would, if so how?Poisons are the same for all predators and rogues.  As I mentioned earlier, rangers have an advantage over everyone with the poison proc when they use a bow.  The chance for the poison to proc is based on the delay of a weapon.  The slower the weapon is, the higher the chance to proc each hit.  Because a longbow has such a long delay, they proc almost every single time.  Now that we no longer proc poison (or any of our skills, which is bunk) in the off-hand, we took a huge hit here. 5.) Is the class fun (for the record i like being more close to the fight)Yes, the class is fun.  I absolutely love raiding with my guild and they love having me.  It's a lot of fun to get up and close with the mobs and slice and dice and though we are not the best dps class in the game, we do great.  We have group invis and we have awesome debuffs, which you will find extremely useful in the end-game. 6.) What kind of Ranged abilities using a bow does the swashbucker have (i hate throwing weapons)At 60, we have 2 and both require throwing weapons.  I know, it sucks.  This was changed in LU13 and all rogues everywhere cried that day.  Bows do more damage, have longer range, and you can put a proc on a bow.  At 60 the only ranged attacks we have are Arctic Blast and Hail of Steel.  Hail of Steel does over 1k per tick, but it's a slow tick and you are stifled and rooted while using it.  It lasts 30 seconds and has a 30 second recast.  Generally, I only use this skill on raids when we need to range a mob because of many nasty aoe's, but it has its uses. 7.)  I like to raid alot where do you stand in raids? (seems kinda weird to ... you know... bring a pirate along to slay a dragon...)<div></div>I am always in the dps group.  Usually our group is several scouts, a berserker, an illusionist, and sometimes either a fury or a dirge.  Dirges have an incredible group buff that bumps our attack rating about 100 points, which is amazing.Later on in the game if you have a smart raiding group they will understand just how important the swashbuckler debuffs are.  Lung Puncture alone can make the difference from a tank getting the bejeezus smacked out of him and hardly getting scratched.  Currently, at master 1, it lowers ALL offensive skills (casting and melee) of the mob by 56.  That's over 11 effective levels.  Also, throw in Dazzling Steel (37% dps debuff at Master 1) and it further reduces their ability to do damage.  Then I throw in Deriding Chancery (defense debuff), Disheartening Guile (mitigation debuff), Fury of Blades (mitigation debuff), Razor Point (parry debuff), Pillage (agility debuff), Gaudy Strike (intelligence debuff), etc which all help.Our main asset to raids are our debuffs and our dps.  A smart raid leader understands the value of debuffs, not just the dps we put out.  It's so important that the raid leader will tell me to run in and get Lung Puncture and Dazzling Steel off on the mob as soon as possible.Unfortunately, most people don't understand that extra added value we provide and it's huge.Just my 2 cents.

[CrazedMut]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr><p>leoneo10 wrote:Ok so, i Play a level 43 Necromancer, and I've been wanting to roll a scout class (got it narrowed down to Ranger and Swashy), and i been wondering how do you do End-game? 1.) First of all will groups want me?</p><p><font color="#99ff33"></font><font color="#99ff33">They should, we have really good dps, crowd control, hate generation, plus all the ususual scout utility spells</font> 2.) Next what kind of weapon options do i have? (dual wield daggers, can i dual weild swords etc.) (sry if these are kinda noobish havent played in a while)<font color="#99ff33">You use dual wield weapons, period. Swashes can use Slash and Pierce, but not crush. </font></p><p> 3.) How does a Swashbucklers DPS compare to rangers? (be honost)</p><p><font color="#99ff33">Close, but rangers can still out DPS us everytime, unless we use Inspired Daring and DPS/Haste increasers.</font> 4.) Are there any poisons out there that only Shwashbucklers can use or only Rangers can use? and also Do poisons proc any different than a Rangers would, if so how?<font color="#99ff33">Preds/Rogues all use the same type of poisons. That includes one debuff, one miscellanious, and one damage poison up at the same time.</font></p><font color="#99ff33"></font><p> 5.) Is the class fun (for the record i like being more close to the fight)</p><p><font color="#99ff33">Yep, we have to properly joust raid content with AOEs, continuously watch our aggro, plus we have crowd control for when things get hairy (Non grp)</font> 6.) What kind of Ranged abilities using a bow does the swashbucker have (i hate throwing weapons)</p><p><font color="#99ff33">None, only auto ranged attack. We have to use throwing weapons to use our 2 CAs at 60.</font> 7.)  I like to raid alot where do you stand in raids? (seems kinda weird to ... you know... bring a pirate along to slay a dragon...)</p><p><font color="#99ff33">Just behind the mob, usually. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</font></p><hr></blockquote><p>Message Edited by CrazedMutha on <span class="date_text">01-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:18 PM</span></p>

[Arciahand]

<div>one more oppinion for you</div><div> </div><div>1.) First of all will groups want me?</div><div><font color="#cc66ff">Yes</font> 2.) Next what kind of weapon options do i have? (dual wield daggers, can i dual weild swords etc.) (sry if these are kinda noobish havent played in a while)<font color="#cc00ff"> Dual wield sharpies, slash and pierce.</font></div><div> 3.) How does a Swashbucklers DPS compare to rangers? (be honost)</div><div><font color="#cc00ff">Good, Rangers have more though.</font> 4.) Are there any poisons out there that only Shwashbucklers can use or only Rangers can use? and also Do poisons proc any different than a Rangers would, if so how?</div><div><font color="#cc00ff">no and no</font> 5.) Is the class fun (for the record i like being more close to the fight)</div><div><font color="#cc00ff">Yes, and yes you will be</font> 6.) What kind of Ranged abilities using a bow does the swashbucker have (i hate throwing weapons)</div><div><font color="#cc00ff">Autoattack</font> 7.)  I like to raid a lot where do you stand in raids? (seems kinda weird to ... you know... bring a pirate along to slay a dragon...)</div><div><font color="#cc00ff">Depends on the raid, if you raid a lot you should know this!</font></div>

[-Llama-]

<div>Don't roll a Swash, roll a Ranger. They are much better.</div><div> </div><div>Anyway, Raidingwise, I am usually in the main tank group. With our hate transfers, I am a personal hate battery for our MT. I can DPS as hard as I want and not pull aggro. Also, hate transfer works wonders on orange mobs.</div>

[Success]

<div></div><p>Right, it keeps the hate off you but, it only helps slightly for the MT.</p><p>Just using some numbers here to represent what I am saying.</p><p>If MT gets 1200 agro per round and you get 1000 per round. Now, at master level, you transfer 23% to the person it's on. That would give you 770 per round and the mT 1430 per round. Now, Rangers and Wizard/Warlocks are drawing like 1500 per round, they will still get (and do get) agro after a round or 2.</p><p>Sure, it adds some hate to the MT but, other people can still EASILY out agro the MT.</p><p>I'm in the MT group sometimes but, it is very situational.</p>

[-Llama-]

<div></div>Well our MT has yet to have it pulled but more than 1 time in a month. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Iseabeil]

<div></div><p>The sad part with Swarthy Diversion is that despite bein a swashie line from almost beginning, we are still not excelling on it. Murderous Design at master1 transfers 29% and Enraging Demeanor at master1 increase hate gain by 49%. With all these skills being group only, Swashie hate transfer will rarely get used outside of group when one of the other classes are available. *sighs and hopes KoS will treat them nicely*</p><p> </p><p> </p>

[Success]

<div></div><div></div>After the nerfs we have had lately and the debacle with hurricane, I don't look for us to get anything good. Bet another class does though<p>Message Edited by Successer on <span class="date_text">01-26-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:16 PM</span></p>

[Luk]

<div></div>Evryone go reroll and make a ranger :smileyvery-happy:...... more masters for me:smileywink:

[Atmosphear1993]

<div></div><p>Some unhappy Swashys here!  I'd like to point out that we are not just a DPS class, we have a very nice line of Debuffs and utilities.  Even some fellow Swashbucklers do not appreciate these abilities it seems.  Swashbucklers are <u>not</u> suppose to be top tier DPS.  In some cases/situations, we have the ability to out DPS some of the top tier classes, which is pretty good in my opinion.</p><p>If you care about nothing but DPS, then you shouldn't be a Swash!</p>

[AratornCalahn]

<span><blockquote><hr>Atmosphear1993 wrote:<div></div><p>Some unhappy Swashys here!  I'd like to point out that we are not just a DPS class, we have a very nice line of Debuffs and utilities.  Even some fellow Swashbucklers do not appreciate these abilities it seems.  Swashbucklers are <u>not</u> suppose to be top tier DPS.  In some cases/situations, we have the ability to out DPS some of the top tier classes, which is pretty good in my opinion.</p><p>If you care about nothing but DPS, then you shouldn't be a Swash!</p><hr></blockquote>When a swashy and brigand both group stealth... I call it "Group Hug" if you know what I mean <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />So... thats totaly untrue! Swashys SUCK I cant belive how crappy and rubbish rouges are in this game. If you want to do damage, ranger. invis? ranger. group invis? Fury (got uber daamge + heals). Utility? Bard. Debuffs? Defiler... That simple. NO REASON you would want to roll ANY KIND of rouge in this game. And if you disagree your a n00b. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Have a nice day.</span><div></div>

[Shiverr]

<div></div><div></div><div>sadly.... Atmosphear my friend, the brigand is right.  :smileysad:</div><div> </div><div>Any poor toon that flowered from the rogue line is simply..... fruit of the poisoned tree - unappealing to anyone for much of anything.  If only our heals weren't broke too.</div><div> </div><div>On a positive note... we do make nice fodder for mobs to wade through and trip on as they make their way to get hold of the uber ranger sloshing out that marvelously stupifying damage.  Rangers and assassins FTW.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div><edit> typo, being a [Removed for Content] swash is even affecting my typing. . .</div><p>Message Edited by 9thArch on <span class="date_text">01-27-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:25 PM</span></p>

[Debunkt]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>9thArch wrote:<div></div><div></div><div>sadly.... Atmosphear my friend, the brigand is right.  :smileysad:</div><div> </div><div>Any poor toon that flowered from the rogue line is simply..... fruit of the poisoned tree - unappealing to anyone for much of anything.  If only our heals weren't broke too.</div><div> </div><div>On a positive note... we do make nice fodder for mobs to wade through and trip on as they make their way to get hold of the uber ranger sloshing out that marvelously stupifying damage.  Rangers and assassins FTW.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>typo, being a [Removed for Content] swash is even affecting my typing. . .</div><p>Message Edited by 9thArch on <span class="date_text">01-27-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:25 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Confirmed and QFT. My guild would have long ago booted me was I not a wood elf hottie of hawtness. My looks and Weapon Blur are all I bring the table.

[overfloat]

<div></div>Shhh! Don't mention Weapon Blur, it's our secret weapon -- we all know it needs nerfing, keep it quiet!

[Atmosphear1993]

<div></div><p>The fact that we have awesome DPS, meaningful Debuffs, hate transfer/mez utilities all in one package makes up for not being the top tier DPS.  Sounds like you are all wanting to be rangers and not rogues.  We have been defined from the very beginning as a DPS/Utility scout where rangers/assassins are more DPS orientated while bards are more utility orientated.</p><p> </p>

[AratornCalahn]

<span><blockquote><hr>Atmosphear1993 wrote:<div></div><p>The fact that we have awesome DPS, meaningful Debuffs, hate transfer/mez utilities all in one package makes up for not being the top tier DPS.  Sounds like you are all wanting to be rangers and not rogues.  We have been defined from the very beginning as a DPS/Utility scout where rangers/assassins are more DPS orientated while bards are more utility orientated.</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>your a serious n00b when it comes to understanding...</span><div></div>

[Shiverr]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>AratornCalahn wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Atmosphear1993 wrote:<div></div><p>The fact that we have awesome DPS, meaningful Debuffs, hate transfer/mez utilities all in one package makes up for not being the top tier DPS.  Sounds like you are all wanting to be rangers and not rogues.  We have been defined from the very beginning as a DPS/Utility scout where rangers/assassins are more DPS orientated while bards are more utility orientated.</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote><strong>your a serious n00b when it comes to understanding...</strong></span><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Amen........</p><p> </p>

[Luk]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>AratornCalahn wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Atmosphear1993 wrote:<div></div><p>The fact that we have awesome DPS, meaningful Debuffs, hate transfer/mez utilities all in one package makes up for not being the top tier DPS.  Sounds like you are all wanting to be rangers and not rogues.  We have been defined from the very beginning as a DPS/Utility scout where rangers/assassins are more DPS orientated while bards are more utility orientated.</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>your a serious n00b when it comes to understanding...</span><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>The sad fact here is that he's right, our DPS is awesome, Deaths Per Session, I think I'm the top in the guild :smileywink:</p><p> </p><p>edit spelling:</p><p>Message Edited by Licit on <span class="date_text">01-29-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:20 AM</span></p>

[Success]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Licit wrote:<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>AratornCalahn wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Atmosphear1993 wrote:<div></div><p>The fact that we have awesome DPS, meaningful Debuffs, hate transfer/mez utilities all in one package makes up for not being the top tier DPS.  Sounds like you are all wanting to be rangers and not rogues.  We have been defined from the very beginning as a DPS/Utility scout where rangers/assassins are more DPS orientated while bards are more utility orientated.</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>your a serious n00b when it comes to understanding...</span><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>The sad fact here is that he's right, our DPS is awesome, Deaths Per Session, I think I'm the top in the guild :smileywink:</p><p> </p><p>edit spelling:</p><p>Message Edited by Licit on <span class="date_text">01-29-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:20 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>LOL, so true. I am within the top 10 on our server. He must not be a high level swashy yet.</p><p>Please don't talk about weapon blur. That other class will whine and it will get nerfed.</p><p>Message Edited by Successer on <span class="date_text">01-29-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:56 PM</span></p>

[-Llama-]

<div></div>In all seriousness, Swash is fine end-game. A little mix of everything that comes together well. Swash can make do with pretty much any raid group makeup they get put into. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[trovan2]

<div></div><div>I am a swash.</div><div>A swash is a jack-of-all-trades guy. the only things he can't do is heal (which i can just grab a potion) and summon pet (go to splitpaw arena for a pet look-a-like).</div><div> </div><div>The swash will be handy no matter when or where you are or what you are fighting. We have everything almost! Sadly, not many people know of everything a swash can do so they just write then off as a playing character. Groups will almost always want you though. The swash has many debuffs (for the enemy of course) and many buffs (usually for self, but sometimes for others).</div><div> </div><div>My opinion: SWASH ALL THE WAY!</div>

[ArivenGemini]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Licit wrote:<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>AratornCalahn wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Atmosphear1993 wrote:<div></div><p>The fact that we have awesome DPS, meaningful Debuffs, hate transfer/mez utilities all in one package makes up for not being the top tier DPS.  Sounds like you are all wanting to be rangers and not rogues.  We have been defined from the very beginning as a DPS/Utility scout where rangers/assassins are more DPS orientated while bards are more utility orientated.</p><hr></blockquote>your a serious n00b when it comes to understanding...</span><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>The sad fact here is that he's right, our DPS is awesome, Deaths Per Session, I think I'm the top in the guild :smileywink:</p><hr></blockquote>hehe, I am making up for that by taking people with me...  people in my guild have -yet- to figure out that I am serious when I say "dont go on /follow on the swashy!"have killed 3 that way over the weekend.</span></div>

[Luk]

<div></div>I can't remember how many times I've had someone on autofollow and I've gotten sidetracted and started practicing safefall <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Landaros]

All you need to say about swashbucklers: they are allrounders - very valuable but nowhere totally outstanding.Thats why everyone likes it<div></div>

[Hawkster]

<div>To all you swashbucklers who say we can't use a crushing weapon, are you forgetting the SPOON!</div>

[Success]

[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], now oyu have gone and ruined it. Now it will be nerfed.No, the spoon can't be used on named mobs. It's mostly a gimmick that people think, wow, cool but, has no real usefulness other than trash mobs.