Swashbuckler not the highest DPS?

[Shinta]

Wow, I feel like a fool. Rogues in EQ1 used to be the highest DPS class closely followed by rangers. Now from all the parsing lists I've been reviewing, rangers do not a small amount more, but nearly twice as much every time! I feel as though I have waste all my time now, thank God I'm only lvl 20. Is it absolutely true that as melee, rangers are the dominating class for DPS? What do Swashbuckler's have to offer that rangers don't then?-A sad rogue<div></div>

[-Llama-]

<div></div><p>A lot of awesome debuffs!</p><p> </p><p>And style. :smileywink:</p>

[ArivenGemini]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Shintaro wrote:Wow, I feel like a fool. Rogues in EQ1 used to be the highest DPS class closely followed by rangers. Now from all the parsing lists I've been reviewing, rangers do not a small amount more, but nearly twice as much every time! I feel as though I have waste all my time now, thank God I'm only lvl 20. Is it absolutely true that as melee, rangers are the dominating class for DPS? What do Swashbuckler's have to offer that rangers don't then?-A sad rogue<div></div><hr></blockquote>Swashy is definately not supposed to come in on top..  but they are a very up close and personal damage dealer, with a tremendous amount of debuffs..  ones that make soloing or group work a lot easier...You can also play "save the healer" at times in a group.. because with the right combo of moves you can many times pull that add or regular mob off the poor healer when he pulls agro <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   buying time for the tank to get some more taunts in before you pop the shadowslip or avoid and hand the agro back off to someone else..So yeah, we dont have the highest dps...   but we are a very active member of the group, able to make mobs dance <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></div>

[Zygwen]

We can also tank better, have group invis and better sustained DPS.<div></div>

[Thorrad]

<div></div><p>Swashbucklers also have a very nice hate transfer combat ability. Works well with helping the MT hold aggro.</p><p>Rangers currently do not have a hate transfer buff. Makes Rangers more apt to pull aggro and creates the need for them to pace themselfs a bit.</p><p>I know this, have a friend that is a 58 Ranger with my 59 Guardian and from time to time there can be aggro issues. ( He dies quickly too if he pulls too much Aggro :smileyvery-happy: )</p><p>My lvl 33 Swashy Alt. is a joy to play when I am not being MT for my group of friends. In time, my Swashy will be all I play when not grouped with my friends.</p><p> </p>

[Tuna]

<div></div><p>Wow, lots of folks seem to be rolling swashbucklers.  Even if their dps is not tops it is significant.  Their utility however is pretty impressive.</p><p>I am a guild leader of a guild that does not have a swashbuckler.  I have a 60 zerker and a 58 dirge, and just recently rerolled a swashy that I will prob make my main (lvl 33 atm).</p><p>I just wanted to chime in because at the high end they are invaluable, and I am thoroughly enjoying them at the lower lvl.</p>

[Syrano]

If you're chasing highest melee DPS and that only, disregarding all other abilities, then yes, Ranger is probably the way to go. You made a bad class choice if that was your goal.  You'd be giving up on one of the greatest classes in the game to chase one of the most useless statistics in any MMO, but that's your choice <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />rangers also require a tremendous outlay in cost for ammunition and inventory space for ammunition.  The trade off is incredibly impressive damage numbers... at range.  Rangers are not nearly so good if they can't effectively use their bows without creating risk to the group.  This pays off for them on raids where ranged attacks against big mobs are often the safest approach but hey, can't have everything.Also, keep this in mind.  At the game launch, Rangers were *not* master of DPS in the scout line, assasins and swashies were.  Now it's rangers then swashy's/brigs/assasins (situational).   MMO's change.  DPS is such a useless statistic by its own that who does the most also always changes.Lastly, if DPS is your only concern, you should've rolled a wizard/warlock.  But anyway.<div></div>

[-Llama-]

<div>Yeah next week Rangers could drop to last in DPS. *shrug*</div>

[Success]

<div></div><div></div>Warning though, Rangers are VERY expensive to maintain if oyu want ot get max damage from them. Arrow cost really add up.<p>Message Edited by Successer on <span class="date_text">01-19-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:40 PM</span></p>

[Belizarius]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><p>My wife made the transition from eq1 rogue to eq2 swashy quite happily.  The playing style is reasonably similar (positional melee class, with evade skill).</p><p>No you are not top DPS, you're not supposed to be.  Top DPS ought to be a cloth class, but that's another story.</p><p>However, even with the recent nerfs to procs, swashies still have excellent DPS rating.  She is often nipping at the heals of our leading rangers on raids, and she's 8 levels below them!  If there's not too much target switching and repositioning she can out DPS's the lazier ones.  The extra aggro transfer also helps, she doesn't have to back off as much.</p><p>Swashies have a ton of exellent offense and defense debuff skills that actually work against epics, unlike my enchanter.  One swashy can make a huge difference on a raid.  If you are the only swashy in the raid, your total DPS contribution (including debuffs) is probably higher than the Ranger's anyway.</p><p>They are great in groups too. </p><p>With the right gear etc swashies can also tank a bit in a pinch.  You even get a taunt skill.</p><p>You also get a mez, and group stealth, Rangers don't get that.</p><p>Really, it's a great class (one of the best in game imho), there aren't enough of them in game, unless your sole aim was to be the top of the DPS parse I would stick with it.  Mobs drop much faster with a swashy in group than without.</p><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by Belizarius on <span class="date_text">01-19-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:09 PM</span></p>

[Carna]

<div></div><p>There's also the question of fun. Rogue combat is very active, running to and fro. Ranger combat really isn't quite so... if you like grouping Assassins might be worth you checking out. Lots of damage and again, very active in combat, but they can be a pain to solo I hear.</p><p>The purpose of the game is to have fun. Try not to forget that. And Rogues are a lot of fun.... I play a Brigand and don't feel temped by the prospect of being a Ranger at all. Assassins sometimes do seem attractive... I like to be active in combat.</p>

[Arathan]

<div>I've gotten my swashie up to 52 and wouldn't change it for anything. Look at all the pluses we have: we have good DPS, we can take a beating, we have invis, we have debuffs, we have escape. We're good solo and in groups. I don't think we have any real major problems and certainly no more issues than any other class.</div><div> </div><div>And the number one reason: swashbucklers are just freaking COOL. :smileyvery-happy:</div>

[AegisCrown]

<div></div><div>I love my swash and i love the dps i cna do with him.  Melee fights i parse right below the rangers, but i debuff more and offer more utility.  I wouldnt change a thing. </div><div> </div>

[Sadpandaa]

<div>Swashies have:</div><div> </div><div><strong>Style</strong></div><div>Decent DPS</div><div>Decent Tanking abilities</div><div>Debuffs</div><div>Style</div><div>Evade</div><div>Aggro management</div><div>Evac</div><div>Style</div><div>Group invis</div><div>a mez (which has saved my life SO many times)</div><div>a taunt (which has saved my healer's loves SO many times)</div><div>Hail of Steel (coolest skill evah... I can't stop playing with it)</div><div>Hurricane is really cool too...</div><div>Um... did I mention that they're stylish, and they're the envy of every other class that plays?</div><div> </div><div>On the other hand, too many people are re-rolling and finding out how awesome we are... (including me, I retired my 50something guardian for my swash) and we're not as rare as we once were... SO.... rangers rock! Go make one of those <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Syrano]

I agree with Leise.*waves fingers*Rangers are awesome.  You *want* a ranger.  You will have a ranger.  You must roll a ranger.<div></div>

[Sadpandaa]

<div>Chuck Norris <em>compels </em>you to roll a ranger.</div>

[Debunkt]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sadpandaa wrote:<div>Chuck Norris <em>compels </em>you to roll a ranger.</div><hr></blockquote>And if you don't he will roundhouse your mom in the face, then wail on a guitar until your bowels are liquid. Oh yes, he will.

[Davhanama]

<div></div><p>/bows to the wisdom of Leise</p><p>plus..how many rangers look like her? :smileywink:</p><p>Davhanama Deeproot</p><p>Proud Swashy on LDL</p><p>P.S. Great Sig Leise!!!</p>

[roblinb]

<div></div><p>lol is it just me or are people that play swashbucklers less serious people who play for FUN and it's not a competition to them... in general.</p><p>It's wierd to read a thread that doesn't say "rangers are overpowered it's not fair" lol</p>

[DeadMyth]

<div></div>erm Well being as I was a Ranger for several years in EQ1 I can tell you that they where in no way even close to rog's in dps, or anyone else for that matter. If anything I'd say Swash's are closer to an EQ1 ranger than a EQ1 rogue. I've only gotten my swash to 35 though so that might change in the levels to come. They are great fun though.

[Syrano]

<span><blockquote><hr>roblinb wrote:<div></div><p>lol is it just me or are people that play swashbucklers less serious people who play for FUN and it's not a competition to them</p><hr></blockquote>As a general rule, with a few exceptions, people didn't pick swashbucklers to be "king" of anything.  It's pretty clear from our class descriptions, our placement in the scout tree etc, that we're not going to top the DPS charts and that our value add is subtle.  The lore of our class, even in the early versions of the game, is a bit skimpy but relatively well rounded.  It was the community that made us who we are and the genuine love for the term "Swashbuckler".But our definition is vague enough that were often not well understood by the gaming public, that perfers to see things in black and white.  You're either a) a tank b) a nuking caster or c) a support class.  To which Swashbucklers happily answer "Yes."   We know our value and that's enough <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />We're also the sexiest looking class in the game.  By default.   And one of the best communities in terms of exactly what you pointed out.  We're hear to have fun <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  The folks who were here to be uber and king of something like DPS have long since rolled rangers or left left the game.</span><div></div>

[Serindyl]

<div></div><div>We were a [Removed for Content] class for over ten months before LU13 came out, and by that time, either most players did not know what we were (since we were rare), or did know, and were seriously underwhelmed.  Post LU13, we received stances, ancients and a DPS improvement of roughly 250%.  The best thing I hear in a raid, though, since that is what I really enjoy doing, is when the MT says the 9k hits he was receiving suddenly dropped to 3k -- Lung Puncture can be a great utility in a raid.</div><div> </div><div>I am just here for the crab cakes, and checking out the women while I wait for my single malt.</div><p>Message Edited by Serindyl on <span class="date_text">01-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:35 AM</span></p>

[DanaDark]

<div></div>I am SWASHAY! ... Now... I must got polish my blades and do my hair... gotta look beautiful for the mobs ^^

[riblete]

I have been parsing my fights in a group where I was MT against yellow ^^^'s in CT.Swashy (MT) - 44Assasin - 46Defiler - 41Inquisitor - 42The assasin was out DPS'ing me by a fair margin often. The assasin tended to do about 270 DPS, where I tended to do about 180 DPS using similar amounts of power. I expected these results since his equipment is better, has two more levels, and was attacking from his best positionals (and he's an assasin!). Just for fun in my parsing I tried to *NOT* do any debuffs in some of the fights. The result was a drop to 190 DPS for the assasin over the same number of seconds into the fights. The fights were longer since I was doing far less DPS too, and I would lose aggro eventually.So I should count 80 DPS from the Assasin onto my 180 DPS for a total of 260 DPS.... and the assasin only gets credit for 190 DPS in the group.  <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span>I was not able to get good info on my caster debuffs since the damage from the healers varied a great deal fight to fight. Also, I noted that I took about 45% more damage when I was not debuffing versus when I was. So goes to show our debuffs are worth tons of DPS for everyone.Gruuptub of Crushbone45 Swashy, still trying to find my surname<div></div>

[Success]

<div></div><p>Anytime you are a MT, you will loose a lot of DPS. A lot of your higher damage skills are from the rear. You loose about half of your skills when fighting from the front. I would expect a lot of people to out DPS you then. Assassins should out DPS us, they are tier 1.</p><p>If you were always fighting from behind, you would be a lot closer to him in DPS.</p><p>Yes, our debuffs can make a big difference.</p>

[riblete]

So if I attack from the rear, I can do more DPS.... BRILLIANT!  <span>:smileywink:</span>Gruuptub o'Crushbone<div></div>

[Geero]

<div></div><p>Swash @ backside = you @ trouble</p><p>Swash @ front != you @ trouble</p>

[Skratttt]

<div></div><div>Even if all your atacks were available you will allways do more dmg from the rear cause Mobs dont parry/dodge/ritpose unless they are brawler mobs (as an assassin i hates em...thats why i allways debuff defence first before atacking = less misses)</div><div> </div><div>As an assassin i tell you this game is more than just dps....for example i might be able to do lets say 30 more dps than u (which in AE fights wont hapen lol u will out dps me)...yet your debuff allowed every mele in raid to do 20-30 more dps.......lets say you have 12 mele in your raid.....calculating at a low of 20 you get 240 extra dps you contribuited indirectly.......</div><div> </div><div>Even more so with brigs</div><div> </div><div>Much <3 to the debuffing classes</div><p>Message Edited by Skratttt on <span class="date_text">01-25-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:56 PM</span></p>

[riblete]

I feel so sadly misunderstood, it is probably my accent. I was trying to show in my first post that the assasin was the benefit of 90 DPS from our swashy debuffs. Since I was MT, I was not concerned about my DPS at all. I parsed the logs, so I posted it, but we all know that Swashys need to move around to do max damage.  I would rather be MT with the assasin doing great amounts of damage than I would have the assasin be MT. <span>:smileysurprised: Besides, he pulled aggro from me sometimes, and I just stuck the mob where hurt! Lizardman Master Strike is nice for getting aggro back.Gruuptub  -  Froglock Swashy o'Crushbone</span><div></div>

[trovan2]

<div></div><p>I think the ranger is the highest dps .... not sure (i did see a master 1 spell that had 6000+ dmg from one hit!!).</p><p>But swashes are the best ones to play hehe.</p>

[Karussh]

<div></div><p>I left the game 4 months ago to go back and play my Paladin.   I missed my Swwashy.</p><p>I've</p>

[Karussh]

<div>Enjoy the Swashy. There alot of fun</div>

[Penda_1994]

Swashy's = fun.   That is the one reason to play a swashbuckler!I'm very happy my Guardian got nerfed because it's allowed me to play my Swashy and at lvl 55 I'm having agreat time playing him.  DPS - we've got plenty to keep it interesting.  If and when I don't pay attention it's quite easy for me to take the aggrofrom 60 th lvl tanks.  I don't recommend doing that, but on occasion, being the swashbuckler that I am, I like to hit the mobsooner then I should.  <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[tass]

when playing in ur dungeon zones I always like to have a swash at my side weather its me being the =swash, which I kick [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] by the way <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> or if im on an alt like a tank or even a wizard I always like to have a swash cause its like an automatic frenzy dot that hundereds of numbers fly from. plus the slowing snares and stuns are just awsome. And they lower mig to magic and spells my mages use ice heat so on. they are by far the most usefull in dpsing scout classes.<div></div>

[trovan2]

<div></div>thank you holystones!! one of the people that understand!!

[Tybr]

<p>Swashy's excell at geting the job done.... Without being glaringly unbalanced.</p><p> </p><p>We are also one of the most fun to play. IMHO</p>