The Spiral of Bristlebane

[TheWays]

<div></div>Something has been running through my head about this creation myth and the symbols after reading the other rune ands symbol thread.  I didn't wish to derail the line of thought and purpose of that thread so here's one of my own.  The more it comes together, more it seems to fit, I'm not saying its proven or even a solid theory, but it just kinda seems to fit.The creations myth, we've heard Veeshan was the first with her almighty dragonkin.  Then Brell, Tunare, Prexus, and Rallos Zek.  Rallos however chose not to form a pact with the other gods that he would play fair, since he was more concerned with conquest.  Then Innorruuk intervened and a second phase of creation was underway.  Brell and Rallos returned to create more mortal beings, but two new players entered the ring: Cazic Thule with his trolls and lizardmen, and Fizzlethorpe Bristlebane with his cunning and agile halflings.<img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y161/Ravenstein/EQ2%20screenshots/cleaneduptat.jpg">Using this image I believe the outer ring to consist of (in no particular order) Rallos Zeks, Cazic Thules, Innoruuks, and Fizzlethorpes runes, with Fizzlethorpe represented by the spiral.  If Fizzlethorpe is represented by the Spiral (the rune of Sunder) then perhaps he was the creator of the rune or the power it holds and possibly has a direct link to the creatures of the Void (or more approprately their destruction/warding).  Perhaps due to his silence over the past 500 years, the power of the void has grown stronger and torn through into our plane of existence, or perhaps it was an inevitable occurance triggered by other events.We don't know how long ago Rikantus ventured into the Obelisks of the void or when he obtained the rune of sunder, but we do know that the shadowmen are desperately trying to find it and cannot.  That led me to an idea that I had never really thought of, sure we've all asked the question, but we never really knew the answer: Why were the creatures of the void infesting the land of the halflings?  Years if not centuries after the sundering, a people that had experienced relative peace suddenly came under attack by these creatures for no apparant reason.  I believe that there was a reason, and it is far more sophisticated than mere bloodlust or conquest.I believe the creatures of the void are trying to find the greatest threat they have ever known among the children of the creator of this threat.  There may be a 9th prophet sleeping among us quietly alerting us to the return of our salvation from the Void in the shattered Rivervale.  The pieces seem to fit, the runes, the gods, the halflings, the nightblood army occupying the vale.  It pains my dark elven heart to say it, but the key to our salvation may lie in the stouts of the enchanted lands.Only time will tell, but if this is true, this epic setting has been in the works for a very long time.<div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>The lower right symbol is Quellious though.</DIV>

[TheWays]

So certain area we?not: "I believe the lower right symbol is quellious"not: "I think the lower right symbol is quellious because it is in Erudin as well as Paineel"not: "Several of use theorize the lower right symbol represents Quellious because xyz and 123"simply, the lower right symbol is quellious... despite the fact that quellious has absolutely nothing to do with the creation myth as told in the first paragraphs of the everquest live manual and crossreferenced in the original post with the image of the runes.Wow.<div></div>

[Whazy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TheWays wrote:<BR>So certain area we?<BR><BR>not: "I believe the lower right symbol is quellious"<BR>not: "I think the lower right symbol is quellious because it is in Erudin as well as Paineel"<BR>not: "Several of use theorize the lower right symbol represents Quellious because xyz and 123"<BR><BR>simply, the lower right symbol is quellious... despite the fact that quellious has absolutely nothing to do with the creation myth as told in the first paragraphs of the everquest live manual and crossreferenced in the original post with the image of the runes.<BR><BR>Wow.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Wow.

[Pyrrhx]

<P>Who says that the image has anything to do with the creation story, and this is not some sort of runic balance of power.</P> <P> </P> <P>Innorrouk at center held at bay by Brell, Tunare, and Marr (I opt for Marr as opposed to Prexus for the 3 lines... as there are 3 in the family- Tarrew, Mithaniel, Erolisi), with them held in check by Quellious, Zek, Cazik Thule, Bristlebane..</P> <P> </P> <P>Of course I'm probably off base, but w/e.</P>

[Captain Apple Darkberry]

<div><blockquote><hr>TheWays wrote:<div></div>Stuff... +I believe the creatures of the void are trying to find the greatest threat they have ever known among the children of the creator of this threat.  There may be a 9th prophet sleeping among us quietly alerting us to the return of our salvation from the Void in the shattered Rivervale.  The pieces seem to fit, the runes, the gods, the halflings, the nightblood army occupying the vale.<font color="#009966">  It pains my dark elven heart to say it, but the key to our salvation may lie in the<b> stouts of the enchanted lands.</b></font><b></b>Only time will tell, but if this is true, this epic setting has been in the works for a very long time.<div></div><hr></blockquote><font color="#ff6600">As it should be...  <nods>Now batten down the hatches, this may be a bumpy ride...  <grins></font></div>

[Kryussius]

<div></div>Found sources claiming the one in the lower right is Cazic-Thule, and another claiming it's Bertoxxulous.  Also found sources claiming the emblems represent mortal cities rather than the gods themselves.  Of course, I also found the yokel who went looney over writing the Codex of War claiming that the arrangement sets up another war of the gods, and on and on and on. I remember that seal being on the floor in Neriak in EQL, and at the time the accepted mythos was that it was representative of the gods - as was mentioned earlier, I think it was supposed to be roughly in the order that they each performed their rites of creation (or corruption in Innoruuk's case). That said, if you choose your race as a user icon on the old EQ boards, the symbol in the middle is associated with Dark Elves instead of Veeshan.  That could just be because the thing is all over the place in Neriak as some sort of possible middle finger to the fact that Innoruuk wasn't invited to create anyone on Norrath by the other gods.  /shrug Hard to say definitively which ones mean what without an official lore citing somewhere. *edited to add that the symbol in the lower right also looks *really* close to the symbol over the awning leading into <a href="http://www.davehosting.com/%7Emichael/eq/symbol_2.JPG" target="new">Erudin</a> in EQL. Also, from looking at an example of the center symbol (the one thought to represent Veeshan) hanging over what appears to be a re-worked entrance to <a href="http://www.davehosting.com/%7Emichael/eq/symbol_3.JPG" target="new">Neriak</a> in EQL, maybe they are, in fact, symbols of the city-states. I haven't been back into EQL to see these myself, but I do know that alot was re-tooled (from what I understand, Freeport is WAY different now), so your mileage may vary. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Kryussius on <span class="date_text">12-30-2006</span> <span class="time_text">10:42 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Kryussius on <span class=date_text>12-30-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:42 AM</span>

[ElnAckom]

<div></div>Before anyone gets their ghostly wraps of torment in a bind, I am not stating a definitive answer, just providing one more set of sequential "break down" tools for us to all continue our debate.That said, I've boiled the creation myth down to its constituent elements and am going to try and show possible parallels with the magic circle. This process does raise some serious concerns and questions that many in these two threads have already cited. Hopefully this'll give us another tool to reference during this discussion.1. The Nameless created all things including the gods.<img src="http://www.thefallenlegion.org/magiccircle/1.jpg">2. Veeshan came to Norrath and put Dragons on the world.<img src="http://www.thefallenlegion.org/magiccircle/2.jpg">Major issue: This symbol appears throughout Tier'Dal culture according to many sources. What is the connection?3. Brell put a variety of creatures in subterranean Norrath.<img src="http://www.thefallenlegion.org/magiccircle/3.jpg">4. Brell proposed an alliance with Prexus and Tunare to keep dragonkind in check.5. Brell created the Dwarves and put them under the mountains of Norrath.6. Prexus created the Kedge and put them into the seas of Norrath.<img src="http://www.thefallenlegion.org/magiccircle/4.jpg">7. Tunare created the Elves, and put them on the surface of Norrath.<img src="http://www.thefallenlegion.org/magiccircle/5.jpg">8. Rallos Zek created the Giants outside of the alliance.<img src="http://www.thefallenlegion.org/magiccircle/6.jpg">9. Innoruuk took the first Elven King and Queen, tore them apart into the Dark Elves, and then put them into subterranean Norrath.10. Brell proposed an alliance with Fizzlethorpe Bristlebane and Cazic-Thule.11. Brell created the Gnomes and puts them under the mountains of Norrath.12. Bristlebane created the Halflings and put them on the surface of Norrath away from Elves and Giants.<img src="http://www.thefallenlegion.org/magiccircle/7.jpg">13. Cazic-Thule created the Trolls and Lizardmen and put them into the jungles of Norrath.<img src="http://www.thefallenlegion.org/magiccircle/8.jpg">14. Rallos Zek created the Ogres and the Orcs.15. The Ogres grew in power and the Rallosian army marched on the realm of the gods. The gods united to curse the Ogres and Rallos Zek was locked away by the other gods.16. Mithaniel Marr and Erollisi Marr created the Barbarians and put them in the frigid north in the ruins of the Giant empire.17. Solusek Ro causes a drought and Takish-Hiz, the Elven City, crumbles.18. An unknown influence, possibly the intervention of a god, transforms a small group of Barbarians into Humans, who rise into the Combine Empire and spread around the world, but fall quickly for an unknown reason.<img src="http://www.thefallenlegion.org/magiccircle/9.jpg">19. Later, another small sect of humans withdraws to become the Erudites. <hr size="2" width="100%">There is a strong argument, if we believe the Magic Circle to be representative of the creation myth, that the spiral may represent Bristlebane as the OP proposes. Why? There are many documentations of the lower left symbol being Rallosian. There seems to be a strong consensus that the crossed bones represent Cazic-Thule. This leaves only the upper left and the lower right.The symbol in the lower right has been seen throughout Erudite culture, as documented several times. There has been ample citation that several variations of this symbol exist, and it seems that the appearances are always in a highly "humanoid" culture. Furthermore, the OP gives a citation of the use of the spiral in the context of Bristlebane.It occurs to me that perhaps the lower right hand symbol, as I correlated in the above image sequence, may indeed represent proto-Human (Barbarian), Human, and post-Human (Erudite) cultures. Perhaps this is the symbol of the human-like races in an ancient context. Are there citations of this symbol being used during the Combine Era?In the context of the creation myth, this symbol presents several major issues. Cusa obviously insists that the lower right symbol is that of Quellious. But perhaps the symbol was ascribed to Quellious after the fact, and has an earlier (and more central to the origins of this image) connotation. This is a central point of debate in this analysis, and I hope everyone will remain positive and contructive in debating this. The "yes it is! / no it isn't!" argument is just that: an argument. We need to get some empirical evidence to back up these ideas.Additionally, is there a more solid citation, some kind of empirical evidence, for the spiral representing Bristlebane? It would go a long way towards making the argument that this is, indeed, a representation of the creation myth.Furthermore, the sequence is somewhat problematic. We have the First Alliance in the center, but the Second Alliance is not separate from the earlier coming of Rallos or the later coming of Quellious / the Humans / whatever. Does this imply that chronology is not a central theme in the image, but rather separation into factions / alliances / groups?Lastly there is another symbol that completes the magic circle, which is the small chevron beneath Brell's symbol, shown here:<img src="http://www.thefallenlegion.org/magiccircle/10.jpg">Is it a "tally mark" showing that Brell had a second go-around in creating his race, namely the Gnomes?Is it a pointer that Brell was one of the central figures to all of this unfolding as it did?It is a marker showing that Brell, or his representatives, will be the source of something in the future?Again, this is a major point of debate and discussion.I hope that this structure has proved useful in furthering the discussion.<i>Edited for a couple of tense-related grammatical errors. Those kind of things irk me. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></i><div></div><p>Message Edited by ElnAckom on <span class=date_text>12-30-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:40 PM</span>

[TheWays]

<div></div>Thanks for that elaborate breakdown Elnackom.  While the use of the symbols as a testament to the creation myth somewhat backs up my theory of the correlation between Bristlebane and the rune of sunder, it is not the focus of my post.  And I agree, that the symbols found could have absolutely nothing to do with the gods or the creation of the races.  I'm just sort of trying to piece together little bits to form a cohesive answer to the "why's" and "who's" of norrath.The question, or idea rather, that is on my mind is does Bristlebane have a connection to the creatures of the Void as a nemesis perhaps and are the nightbloods and lamias invading the vale to quell this silent enemy?  I can't think of any real strategic reason for them to invade the enchanted lands with such force, assimilating and eliminating the peaceful homeland of the halfling race.How far are the drafling (who has been seen in the dragon isles apparantly) and fiddy bobbick involved with the shadowmen?  It kinda sorta makes sense, in a wierd way, but could honestly go either way as many of these crackpot theories do.  I'm more or less posting this to try to see what the collective minds of the board think of this, is there any ingame/dev comments that could support/disprove this theory?<div></div>

[RaphaNissi]

The spiral is found all over the Qeynos catacombs where the Bloodsabers are who worship Bertoxxulous.  It is also found with the waves, dots, candleabrum, and crossbones in Solusek.<div></div>

[therodge]

i am probobly wrong on this but wasent bristlebane and fizzlethorpe two diffrent entitys representing the same idea, (something i heard awile back related to origonal eq1 picture)

[ElnAckom]

<div></div>I believe the creator god of the halflings' full name is Fizzlethorpe Bristlebane.<i>Edit: TY to Cusa below for confirming!</i><div></div><p>Message Edited by ElnAckom on <span class=date_text>12-31-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:49 PM</span>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>It is.</DIV>

[kajirala]

<DIV><IMG height=211 src="http://www.thefallenlegion.org/magiccircle/10.jpg" width=253></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>can i ask a question....why is there a arrow pointing to the brell symbol</DIV>

[ElnAckom]

Unknown. Please refer to the theorization several posts up. If any of them spring out at you, please comment. This is a subect of much debate and speculation. (At least for me!)<div></div>

[TheWays]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>therodge wrote:<div></div>i am probobly wrong on this but wasent bristlebane and fizzlethorpe two diffrent entitys representing the same idea, (something i heard awile back related to origonal eq1 picture)<hr></blockquote>Fizzlethorpe Bristlebane is 1 god who has been known to appear in a variety of different ways (illusion and deception are key to his mischief) and is the creator of the halflings.  There is another Bristlebane however, Xev Bristlebane: the God of Fortune.<hr size="2" width="100%">I'm aware of the sightings of the spirals in the old Qeynos Catacombs as well as the Temple of Sol Ro.  However, the basis of my theory is that the glyph in the original post is representative of the creation myth and therefore each symbol either represents a race or more likely a diety that created one of the original races.  While I have conceded that the symbols are not infact concrete in their definitions or that it has any relation to the creation myth, Its more of a "what if" this is the symbol of Fizzlethorpe and he is related to the creatures of the void.I feel like it would help explain why the armies of the void have invaded the enchanted lands as well as the cryptic voice currently warding off prophet seekers from the tower of the Drafling, but again I'm using this as more of a sounding board.  I feel like this theory does have some merit in that it can't be outright disproven and in a way does seem to fill in a few blanks, but wouldn't be so bold as to state that it is conclusive.</div>

[ElnAckom]

And as supposition is all we have to go on beyond the few canon facts we can find, your post, The Ways, is precisely the kind of constructive supposition we need. Many thanks for that. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Perhaps we should try to gather some screenshots. I tried in vain to find a symbol in Runnyeye last night, but I recall when I was hunting material to translate on this forum a while back, finding quite a few glyphs of interest. While the Veeshan / Tier'Dal symbol may ultimately prove that "just because it's on the wall doesn't mean it represents that place / people," it may be helpful to gather as many concrete, in-game examples of these icons as possible, for the purposes of studying them publicly.<div></div>

[Acoria]

<div></div>While out hunting yesterday I found these one of those symbols on the stone markers outside the cave entrance into Crusbone.<img src="http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/tcei/eqcbglif2.jpg">The other marker had <a target="_blank" href="http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m6/tcei/eqcbglif1.jpg">this</a> symbol on it, I assume it must be the crushbone clan marking.<div></div>

[RaphaNissi]

<div><blockquote><hr>TheWays wrote:<div></div><div><blockquote><hr></blockquote>I feel like it would help explain why the armies of the void have invaded the enchanted lands as well as the cryptic voice currently warding off prophet seekers from the tower of the Drafling, but again I'm using this as more of a sounding board.  I feel like this theory does have some merit in that it can't be outright disproven and in a way does seem to fill in a few blanks, but wouldn't be so bold as to state that it is conclusive.</div><hr></blockquote>I agree that the creation way of thinking makes the most sense overall.  There are just some symbols that are more "forced" to fit into the theory.  The voice near the Drafling Tower has nothing to do with warding off any prophet seekers.  It's the Drafling's voice.  He's asleep in his tower and dreaming.  <span>:smileywink:</span>  </div>

[ElnAckom]

I think that you've found a pretty definitive example of a Rallosian marking, there, Acoria. Thanks for the screenie! Your assumption that the other symbol is Crushbone seems logical. Has anyone seen the other symbol (linked in Acoria's post) elsewhere or previously?<div></div>

[Skyriderv]

<div></div>You were correct on all but two I think (forgive me if I am wrong <--- sleepy =p)original lore from EQL  *<a href="http://www.1stfistoflight.com/html/1fol/everquest/eqcodex/default.htm" target="_blank">1st fist of light eq lore codex</a>* (best EQL I found so far)    The symbol directly left is of Tunare, nine dots that emulate the standing stones seen throughout Norrath. The symbol in the center above that of Veeshan is the symbol of Brell, denoted by the candelabra which is often depicted worn by Brell. The symbol directly to the right of Veeshan is that of Prexus, three lines to denote the waves of the Oceanlord. Surrounding the four symbols is a great circle which depicts the veil erected by the three in their pact to keep the Wurmqueen in check. (from EQL) <p>The four on the outside from left to right are as follows: Lower left hand corner is Rallos Zek, upper left is Innoruuk, upper right is Cazic Thule, and the lower right is Bertoxxulous...the four horsemen to bring about the end. (second war of the gods for EQL) </p><div></div><p>Message Edited by Skyriderv on <span class=date_text>01-02-2007</span> <span class=time_text>10:56 PM</span>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>The Codex of Light isn't canon. It is a fanfiction site made by a jaded player who thought he was suppose to be the main character of the storylines in EQlive, and he alone.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The whole story is actually quite funny because you get to laugh at how much of a jerk idiot he was.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Cusashorn on <span class=date_text>01-03-2007</span> <span class=time_text>01:12 AM</span>

[Skyriderv]

*off topic * Yeah my bad just saw your last  post on my previous one =p ment to edit it but you beat me to it. XD<div></div>

[Cusashorn]

Sorry, didn't mean to snap at you. I really should be in bed right now...

[Skyriderv]

*(off topic) Yeah man I don't blame you =p it was pretty noobish of me to post that source forgetting to read the disclaimer. XD (on topic) did a little research on the EQL forum and apparently * <a href="http://lorenorrath.free.fr/index.php" target=_blank>http://lorenorrath.free.fr/index.php</a> * is the best bet to go for  both EQL and EQ  II lore.<div></div>

[Kryussius]

That site's great - it's too bad the owner decided to not keep it up anymore though.  But at least the lore there is pulled out of game and from official sources.The Codex was an entertaining read, IMO.  It only becomes sort of a sad type thing when you realize that the guy who wrote it literally thought he had unravelled some big overriding dev plotline and pretty well snapped when the EQL story didn't conform to his outline.And man, did he ever snap.<div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kryussius wrote:<BR><BR><BR>And man, did he ever snap.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Thats what  makes it so funny.

[Stealth Status]

Where can I see his snapping. did you guys just witness it in Eq1?This guy was told to write this by eq1 devs???? Then they pulled a switcheroo and didn't use it.Or, I do not get what you guys mean by he THOUGHT it was all about him? How could one player ever in their wildest dreams especially in Eq1 with the millions of players ever think the whole game was about his PC toon?Explain I want in on the sad drama.Oh And I tend to agree with the theory those are all symbols not of the gods per se.... but of sort of who took them on.On the other thread there was the swastika analogy......Indians in new mexico used it original as a symbol of "peace with all things living"Humans - all 3 types, seem to use the lower right hand one... that seems to be something to do with Humanity. Bloodsabres use it.... so what... they probably think THEY represent what humanity should be.Same with Dark Elves. Maybee Veeshans symbol to them means THEY were the real first born...... or the first REAL quality race, after they were made from high elfs, or maybee it is a big FU to her saying we don't need you to exist.<div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>No no no. This guy thought that he was the center of the universe. He thought that HE was suppose to be the main character, the main hero of the entire Everquest game. He wanted Everquest to focus around him and he be the center of attention.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>He even wrote into Verant Interactive that they should make him the main story character, because he felt that they owed him and that he was deserving of such an honor.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Verant did the right thing. They just ignored him like he rightfully deserved to be, because they didn't owe him anything.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So he created the Fist of Light codex by writing in his character into all the lore stories where he could, and imposed that it was canon to the game.</DIV>

[Kryussius]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Stealth Status wrote:Where can I see his snapping. did you guys just witness it in Eq1?This guy was told to write this by eq1 devs???? Then they pulled a switcheroo and didn't use it.Or, I do not get what you guys mean by he THOUGHT it was all about him? How could one player ever in their wildest dreams especially in Eq1 with the millions of players ever think the whole game was about his PC toon?Explain I want in on the sad drama.Oh And I tend to agree with the theory those are all symbols not of the gods per se.... but of sort of who took them on.On the other thread there was the swastika analogy......Indians in new mexico used it original as a symbol of "peace with all things living"Humans - all 3 types, seem to use the lower right hand one... that seems to be something to do with Humanity. Bloodsabres use it.... so what... they probably think THEY represent what humanity should be.Same with Dark Elves. Maybee Veeshans symbol to them means THEY were the real first born...... or the first REAL quality race, after they were made from high elfs, or maybee it is a big FU to her saying we don't need you to exist.<div></div><hr></blockquote>I don't have the links anymore, but the guy went ape-[Removed for Content] when the game itself didn't follow his "path" that he'd written out in the Codex.  Granted, the Codex originally made for some good fan fiction (I thought at least), but in the end that's all it was - fan fiction. Some people get so attached to their ideas that they can't bear the thought of being wrong.See:  Religious extremists who behead people He was one of them, and went on calling out the devs for somehow purposefully trying to sabotage the story to spite him, or some such garbage.  It turned kind of rambling.* - edited to add, probably what Cush said.  I wasn't around for the entire deal, outside of reading through the Codex when I had a break at work at the time.  I didn't pay alot of attention to the forums, or the crazy guy's forums until he went all Norman Bates.</div><p>Message Edited by Kryussius on <span class=date_text>01-03-2007</span> <span class=time_text>02:58 PM</span>

[Stealth Status]

Sounds like he went off the deepend<div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Thats puting it lightly.</DIV>

[Kryussius]

Agreed.  "deep end" would be the shallow side of the pool for this guy.I think he grew up to be R.A. Salvatore, but that's just a theory.<span>:smileyvery-happy:</span><div></div>

[Skyriderv]

A more extreme case of leeroy jenkins?<span>:smileytongue:</span> a quick question though on the lore side, Tunare, Brell, and Prexus, made a pac t to keep the wurmqueen in check, sense she is no longer in norrath ( pretty  much left her mark) what does that do to the pact? does the pact effect dragons besides the wurmqueen herself?<div></div>

[TheKons]

That's what they mean by keeping the wurmqueen in check. They wanted their own creations to make sure the dragons didn't get out of control and take over the whole planet.<div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Indeed.</DIV>

[vikingthug]

<DIV><FONT size=3>Speaking of the deep end.. You folks need to step away from the pool.  Nice and slow like.  Thats it...easy now...Time for your meds and into bed...</FONT></DIV>

[Kryussius]

Who let the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] in?<div></div>

[ElnAckom]

<div><blockquote><hr>vikingthug wrote:<div><font size="3">Speaking of the deep end.. You folks need to step away from the pool.  Nice and slow like.  Thats it...easy now...Time for your meds and into bed...</font></div><hr></blockquote>Another genius argument, compelling and fervently authored, by a master of profundity. Truly, the empirical evidence you concisely and methodically forwarded has totally altered my perceptions on this subject. I am forever a better scholarly mind for having read this legendary piece of academia.Thank you. Thank you for weighing in so resoundingly on this issue that clearly everyone else on this board has invested time and thought in. It is a privilege to have the likes of your titanic essayism join the throng in an effort to unravel the mysteries of Norrath.Why on EARTH did you waste the keystrokes to post this childish nonsense?Moving right along, on a productive note, EQ2 provides a massive diversity of entertainment opportunities, and while some players want nothing more than to lay the beat down on high-conning mobs, there are those of us who appreciate the fineries of the mythology created by creative minds like Vhalen, and the fact that those two divergent interests can be stimulated by one game is a testament.In short, if you don't like lore, don't post in the lore forums. You only serve to embarrass yourself. By the way, regarding your signature...That's <b>heresy</b>, not heresey.That's <b>you're</b>, not your.That's <b>isn't</b>, not isnt.Here's another quote for you. Do not insert your head into the lion's den if you are unwilling to have your head removed by force.<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[vikingthug]

Sorry Kryussius, Sony left the door open so I slipped in.  Seriously, I think maybe you guys are reading way to much into this.  Im sure the devs sit back and laugh they're assess off watching you guys debate over what they really mean and what not. For all you know some dev took a long hard work at his dogs poo and decided to throw it in just to mess with your head. Im  a lore hound as well , but sooner or later you gotta draw the line.  Even cusa knows when to say when.  So don't go getting your panties all in a bunch when someone pokes fun.  After all, its just fun.<p>Message Edited by vikingthug on <span class=date_text>01-04-2007</span> <span class=time_text>07:05 PM</span>

[vikingthug]

<DIV>Yet another person who takes its far to serriously..........And thanks for the spellcheck....I will get right on that....</DIV><p>Message Edited by vikingthug on <span class=date_text>01-04-2007</span> <span class=time_text>07:03 PM</span>

[RaphaNissi]

<div><blockquote><hr>vikingthug wrote:<div></div>Sorry Kryussius, sony left the door open so I slipped in.  Serriously, I think maybe you guys are reading way to much into this.  <u><b>Im sure the devs sit back and laugh theyre assess off watching you guys debate over what they really mean and what not.</b></u> For all you know some dev too a long hard work at his dogs poo and descided to throw it in just to mess with your head. Im  a lore hound as well , but sooner or later you gotta draw the line.  Even cusa knows when to say when.  So dont go getting your panties all in a bunch when someone pokes fun.  After all, its just fun.<hr></blockquote>I have to completely disagree with you on this point.  I believe Vhalen and others greatly enjoy reading our debates about such things.  These symbols being discussed here and in the other thread are very important to the future of EQ2 or Vhalen wouldn't have called them the "key to destiny."  Sure some subjects might not be worth really digging into, but this isn't one of those.</div>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>The more we debate the lore of the game, the more the developers know we take great interest in it. In the end it doesn't matter who's proven right or wrong, just so long as new questions develop for us to take interest in.</DIV>

[DreamerClou]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ElnAckom wrote:<BR> <DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> vikingthug wrote:<BR> <DIV><FONT size=3>Speaking of the deep end.. You folks need to step away from the pool.  Nice and slow like.  Thats it...easy now...Time for your meds and into bed...</FONT><BR></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Another genius argument, compelling and fervently authored, by a master of profundity. Truly, the empirical evidence you concisely and methodically forwarded has totally altered my perceptions on this subject. I am forever a better scholarly mind for having read this legendary piece of academia.<BR><BR>Thank you. Thank you for weighing in so resoundingly on this issue that clearly everyone else on this board has invested time and thought in. It is a privilege to have the likes of your titanic essayism join the throng in an effort to unravel the mysteries of Norrath.<BR><BR>Why on EARTH did you waste the keystrokes to post this childish nonsense?<BR><BR>Moving right along, on a productive note, EQ2 provides a massive diversity of entertainment opportunities, and while some players want nothing more than to lay the beat down on high-conning mobs, there are those of us who appreciate the fineries of the mythology created by creative minds like Vhalen, and the fact that those two divergent interests can be stimulated by one game is a testament.<BR><BR>In short, if you don't like lore, don't post in the lore forums. You only serve to embarrass yourself. By the way, regarding your signature...<BR><BR>That's <B>heresy</B>, not heresey.<BR>That's <B>you're</B>, not your.<BR>That's <B>isn't</B>, not isnt.<BR><BR>Here's another quote for you. Do not insert your head into the lion's den if you are unwilling to have your head removed by force.<BR><BR><img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Ha Ha - awesome respone.  To be honest, the Lore is the main reason I even play EQ2.  Sure the game is fun and all, but the lore is the best!

[ElnAckom]

LOL, cheers. And it's not getting wound up about the lore, Vike. It's the implication that 1.) we're odd for caring about an awesome part of the game, and 2.) Vhalen and his team don't work their ratonga tails off at developing cohesive lore.Anyhoozit, I'm excited about forgetting this rather lousy week and losing myself in the contemplation of the nature of Innoruuk for a while. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I'm not sure Master Wu would be proud of such a meditation, but eh. There's a reason Seskerdoodle is an Ashen Disciple student and not an Ashen Order student. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Wulfborne]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> vikingthug wrote:<BR> <DIV>Yet another person who takes its far to serriously..........And thanks for the spellcheck....I will get right on that....</DIV> <P>Message Edited by vikingthug on <SPAN class=date_text>01-04-2007</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:03 PM</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=time_text>An open mind is the first step on the road to heresy.<BR>Suffer not the heretic nor the Xenos.<BR>"So, you're a role player huh?"<BR>"<STRONG><U>Isnt</U></STRONG> it time for you're medication?" </SPAN></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You missed one...</P> <P>~Hawke<BR></P>

[TheKons]

Missed "<span class="time_text">you're" also, its supposed to be your.</span><div></div>

[Kryussius]

I think a little part of my soul just died.<div></div>

[TheWays]

<div></div>in staying with the theory that these symbols are representative of the creation myth, perhaps the bottom right glyph is to represent humankind.  Although they were very much late to the party, they were/are one of the more influential beings created.  It would explain its presence amongst the Erudites cities, perhaps they were the only civilization to properly recognize its and their divinity.So possibly:Center - Innorruuk (possibly veeshan, but with the new cloak/altar symbols its looking more like the Lord of Hate) - Dark ElvesCenter/Top - Brell with his Candelabra - Dwarves, GnomesCenter/Left - Tunare with the 9 dots - ElvesCenter/Right - Prexus with his oceanic waves - KedgeBottom Left - Rallos Zek - Orcs, Goblins, GiantsBottom Right - Marr twins (humanity) - Barbarians (who "evolved" into humans who "evolved" into Erudites)Top Left - Cazic Thule (matches his cloak symbol and altar) - Lizardmen (iksars) and TrollsTop Right - Fizzlethorpe Bristlebane - HalflingsAgain, not trying to state anything definit, just an idea that makes some sort of logical sense.  If the spiral is the symbol of Fizzlethorpe Bristlebane as was originally posted, I'm wondering where and when we'll see it again.<a target="_blank" href="http://altreligion.about.com/library/glossary/symbols/bldefsspiral.htm">From what i've read by googling "symbology" or symbols</a>, the Spiral has been everpresent in symbology in just about every culture.  In many societies, it represented the sun and life, while in others they defined it as the life and spirit of a person or thing.  In just about all cultures they relate the spiral to the natural order of life as a cycle.Interestingly, in alchemic symbology a triangle pointing up represents fire (sulfur), while a triangle pointing down represents water (mercury).  There is also an image of a triangle with fire in it and arrows comming out of the bottom that represents the <a target="_blank" href="http://altreligion.about.com/library/glossary/symbols/bldefsredking.htm">Red King</a> or the Sulfur of the Philosophers.  The rune of the Void may not be related at all, but I found it interesting that it is two intersecting triangles (fire and water) with flames eminating from the bottom.  And being a huge fan of FMA, my mind is sort of running rampant piecing together various theories that make some sort of sense, mostly that the Shadowmen symbol more or less is representative of the alchemic "scientific" version of the soul as a component rather than the divine "natural" version of the soul as the essence of being (represented by the spiral).Just kind of some food for thought.  These theories have as much credit as anyone who googles any topic can have, but they're fun to play around with.<div></div>