The Avatars... or ARE they?!

[IrishWonder]

<DIV>When asked why the Gods were once again attackable and defeatable in the world of EQ2, the response given was that the Avatars we see are not the Gods, but rather mortals imbued with the power of the Gods.... "divine representatives" if you will of the Gods on Norrath. However, while helping a friend through the last step in the Solusek Ro questline, I read over his dialogue one more time... a little closer than I had when I did the quest for myself. What Solusek says would have us believe differently than what we've been told.</DIV> <DIV>To set things up, you have searched for Marathan Allim so that he may provide his body as the host for Solusek Ro on Norrath. He was captured by fire giants and you come in to save the day. After freeing him, the visage of Solusek Ro appears and says this:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1790/solusekspeechow8.jpg"></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, the figure we see out in Lavastorm is not a divinely imbued mortal, but an actual projection of Solusek Ro... the same thing that we saw in the Planes in EQ1. What gives?</DIV>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>An avatar is a Mortal blessed with divine powers. The Gods we fought in EQlive were Divine beings with Physical properties.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Regardless of the fact of whether or not it's the mortal avatar we meet at the end of each questline, the fact remains that the avatar itself is mortal.</DIV>

[Renita_Serafim]

The impression we were given prior to the conclusion of the Solusek Ro questline was that each avatar were an everyday mortal who had their own form and personalities overridden with that of their chosen diety (ala Agent Smith), though this doesn't seem to be the case from what the Avatar of Flame tells us.<p>Message Edited by Astralmage on <span class=date_text>12-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:32 AM</span>

[IrishWonder]

<DIV>I provided in-game text Cusa. The Avatar, who is clearly Solusek Ro judging by his comment about saving Rathmana in the desert (we know that it was Solusek who did that), says that he "needs no such body. I appear as I wish, when I wish." Show me in-game text that states this Avatar is a mortal... because all the in-game text directly related to the Avatar of Flames would say otherwise.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I agree, it SHOULD be a mortal imbued with divine powers... and I'm hoping that this dialogue is an oversight on the devs' part.</DIV>

[Jaargen]

<P>Avatar is something that resprents something else.  Your characters in the game are your avatars since they represent you when you play.  These avatars are directly under your control, but if they were autonomous but still represented you, they too can be avatars.</P> <P>When the gods left, they chose mortals (or possibly even immortals) to be thier avatars to run thier affairs when they left.  Now that the gods are active, they have more direct planar projections that are more direct controlled avatars.  As such, if you kill these projections, you are still not killing the god, just more like killing a shadow.</P>

[IrishWonder]

<DIV>Exactly.... which is the same thing we saw in the planes in EQ1, as I stated.... which is the same thing the Devs said we WEREN'T doing in this expansion.</DIV>

[ChildofHate]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jaargen wrote:<BR> <P>Avatar is something that resprents something else.  Your characters in the game are your avatars since they represent you when you play.  These avatars are directly under your control, but if they were autonomous but still represented you, they too can be avatars.</P> <P>When the gods left, they chose mortals (or possibly even immortals) to be thier avatars to run thier affairs when they left.  Now that the gods are active, they have more direct planar projections that are more direct controlled avatars.  As such, if you kill these projections, you are still not killing the god, just more like killing a shadow.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>This could not have been any more clearly explained.  You hit it perfectly, Jaargen.  Beyond rigid, unbending, must argue mentality, there should be as much confusion over this as to whether or not is water wet.  =Þ</P> <P>Unless EQ2 takes some bizzare radical turn in story line, the players will probably never ever take on the true gods ever again.</P><p>Message Edited by ChildofHate on <span class=date_text>12-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:00 AM</span>

[Gukkor2]

<DIV>I agree that this is all simpler than it's being made out to be.  What I gather is that an avatar is any lesser physical projection of a god's will into the material plane.  A lot of the time, they're mortals who have been remade into reflections of their deities.  Solusek Ro is basically just saying "yeah, well mine's not."</DIV>

[ca]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> IrishWonder wrote:<BR> <DIV>When asked why the Gods were once again attackable and defeatable in the world of EQ2, the response given was that the Avatars we see are not the Gods, but rather mortals imbued with the power of the Gods.... "divine representatives" if you will of the Gods on Norrath. However, while helping a friend through the last step in the Solusek Ro questline, I read over his dialogue one more time... a little closer than I had when I did the quest for myself. What Solusek says would have us believe differently than what we've been told.</DIV> <DIV>To set things up, you have searched for Marathan Allim so that he may provide his body as the host for Solusek Ro on Norrath. He was captured by fire giants and you come in to save the day. After freeing him, the visage of Solusek Ro appears and says this:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><IMG src="http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1790/solusekspeechow8.jpg"></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, the figure we see out in Lavastorm is not a divinely imbued mortal, but an actual projection of Solusek Ro... the same thing that we saw in the Planes in EQ1. What gives?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>the way I read this, and I may very well be wrong, is that Solusek Ro is saying that you didn't help him because he NEEDS an avatar but rather because the gods have a hidden agenda and are simply using these avatars as a cover to their true purposes, He does not say he isn't going to use Rathmana he merely states that he does not need to. As such that leaves it open that all the gods are actually using avatars, at least for the time being.</P> <P>once again I could be reading it wrong.</P>

[IrishWonder]

<DIV>I think everyone here is completely missing the point :smileywink:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes, according to the dialogue I posted, it would seem that these Avatars are physical manifestations of themselves on our plane of existence. It is simple, and I realize that. That's not the point I'm trying to figure out or the point I'm arguing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What I'm saying is that we were told by the devs that these Avatars in EoF were actual mortal beings who had been imbued with the power of a God, much like you are led to believe will happen to Marathan throughout the Solusek Ro storyline. Instead, in the end, we find out that Solusek Ro doesn't need to infuse his power into a mortal... his personal physical manifestation is in our realm.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What my original post is asking is: Which do we believe? What we were told, that these are divinely imbued mortals? Or what it seems to be via this quest... that these are physical manifestations put forth by the Gods directly onto our plane?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hope I better explained myself there :smileywink:</DIV>

[ca]

Irish you just confused the heck outta me, if the gods are imbuing mortals with divine powers then we have an avatar that is a physical being with near godlike powers, if the gods are creating physical manafestations of themselves to be on the worlds suface than we have a physical being with near god-like powers, if we have a god that is ON the earth in physical form then we have a physical being that is and has godlike powers, EQ1 had the latter but in all the god quest lines of EQ2 it is the first two, granted Solusek Ro's language is confusing there but I believe he does in fact have a human with near god like powers representing him he just said "hey I don't need this idiot, I am just using him cause I got some important stuff to do at the market"

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>cavv wrote:</P> <P> He does not say he isn't going to use Rathmana he merely states that he does not need to.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>QFE</P> <P>Even the Quellious questline leaves us with meeting a planar projection of Quellious. I doubt it was the mortal Avatar who gave me that Cloak of Tranquility.</P>

[ca]

OK like I said I could be reading it wrong but I thought that the manafestation of the gods was getting you to prepare the mortal, so you interacted with the god itself and got your reward from them but that they had a purpose for the mortal and that being as an avatar. I have seen only two of the avatars up and ready to be raided and neither of them looked like the god they looked like humans with a pituitary gland problem and some serious attitude.

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> cavv wrote:<BR> OK like I said I could be reading it wrong but I thought that the manafestation of the gods was getting you to prepare the mortal, so you interacted with the god itself and got your reward from them but that they had a purpose for the mortal and that being as an avatar. I have seen only two of the avatars up and ready to be raided and neither of them looked like the god they looked like humans with a pituitary gland problem and some serious attitude.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Probably because the gods want them to look like humans with a pituitary gland problem. They shaped them after thier own image.

[IrishWonder]

<DIV>Solusek Ro DID say that he wasn't going to use Marathan... not just that he didn't need him. He specifically said "I don't need him. I'm sending him back to what he was doing before this all happened." That means Solusek Ro is manifesting himself, without the use of a mortal, onto our plane.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sorry for the confusion, Cavv :smileywink: I was just under the full understanding that these were mortals imbued with the power of the Gods, which to me made it OK that they were defeatable. I was never a big fan of being able to beat the actual projections of the Gods in EQ1... so thinking as the Avatars in EQ2 as beings that were mortal but just "invaded" by the Gods made it seem a little better. After reading Solusek's quest dialogue, it became clear that he wasn't using a mortal... his Avatar is truy his manifestation, which is how it was on the planes in EQ1... and makes it seem like we're back to square one, killing the Gods again :smileywink: Therein lies the reason for my post and my query as to which we are to believe.... are these divinely imbued mortals (as the devs told us), or are they the manifestations of the Gods themselves (as this quest dialogue tells us)?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hope I didn't just throw you further into confusion, hehe :smileywink:</DIV>

[ca]

see! I KNEW I was reading it wrong.....this seems like job for the L&L dev team, suit up and get in the super car, we need clarification!

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Honestly, I dont think this is that big an issue. Solusek Ro has proven that he is the Exception, not the rule.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Unless the other 7 god lines mention similar things, then the avatars are all mortals.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know for a fact that Quellious does not.</DIV>

[Gratuitios]

<DIV>If I may ask,isn't it possible that maybe Solusek possessed his Avatar? He may be a God of Flame,but there's no god for possessing stuff,so they all should have that ability,right?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If I'm wrong,forgive me.</DIV>

[Xyran]

After Sol's actions in EQ1 I, personally, dont see him admitting that he needs any mortals help.... ever.  Sol is much to vain to admit that,which is why I like him. Perhaps he does not need Alim because he already had someone else... Or perhaps he tells you that so the next time your in Solusek's  temple and you see Alim in the library... your not wondering why he is there, when he should be the avatar. Or perhaps the reason that Solusek save his ancestor way back when was because he saw that in the future his decendants existence would cause much chaos and confussion on EQ2's lore forums...<div></div>

[Jetrauben2]

<DIV>Or, of course, it could simply mean that Ro is unwilling to destroy a follower of his for his own benefit.</DIV>

[Daarom]

afaik the "Gods" in EQ1 where just shards from the actual God, you wont see neither be able to kill a Godi.e. if you would kill sol ro all fires that are his creation would burn down and ermh I dont have a warm jacket with me <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>