Lore on an item...

[Rezikai]

<DIV>Not a specific item as some would think....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was in the labs a few nights ago and a tower shield dropped.. no big deal as i cant use it... then as i clicked on the link of it i noticed something that caught my aye and threw me back into the nostalgia of EQoA....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the tower shield.. had .. a "phrase" on it when i "examined" it... underneath the name of the shield above the stats was a little "phrase" of info about the Lore of the shield...... sadly i cant recall the name or the phrase.. ( its on my home and im at work ... working for the man.. bah... )</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Players of EQoA.. remember nearly <EM><FONT color=#ffcc00>ALL</FONT></EM> items in EQOA had a little bit of info/Lore attached to them.. and when i saw this the memories cam rushing back.. but it did bring up a question.....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Was this done by Vhalen? or another Lore writer?.. ANNNNND.. weather or not it was.. could it be possible to see more of these little phrases, lore info on the stat info when an item is "examined"?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Rez</DIV>

[Pyrrhx]

<P>I'd be down with that.</P> <P>Still remember some of my EQOA gear from the little descriptive tid-bits.</P>

[ke'la]

<P>The sad thing is that alot off the vendor trash out there has more lore in thier exsamine window then Iteams off raids or even instances.</P> <P>Even a small blearb about the previous owner(the Mob you killed to get it) would be nice, especally on the harder raid stuff as I would like to have the Proper Awe for someone equiped with an Iteam off of some of the harder raids in game.</P>

[Mirander_1]

<div></div>On a related note, if you look at some of your really low-level spells, you'll see some of them have little quotes or sayings on them.  For instance, a mage's 'Arcane Auger' has a quote from Opal Darkbriar.  It would be nice to see stuff like this expanded on in the game.<div></div>

[Quixtor]

<P><EM>"A draconic relic of ages past..."</EM></P> <P>I believe the shield you're talking about is the Shield of Wurms:</P> <P><A href="http://eq2.ogaming.com/db/items/ShieldoftheWurms.php" target=_blank>http://eq2.ogaming.com/db/items/ShieldoftheWurms.php</A></P> <P>Also, a horrible BP drops in Labs with the same text:</P> <P><A href="http://eq2.ogaming.com/db/items/ChestplateofFieryMight.php" target=_blank>http://eq2.ogaming.com/db/items/ChestplateofFieryMight.php</A></P> <P>--</P> <P>In Magic the Gathering, we called it <A href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flavor_text" target=_blank>flavor text</A>.  Little quotes on the cards that gave a nice additional touch.  It would be fun if more items (especially the fabled items that actually have names) in EQ2 had flavor text.  For example, if you loot Rak'leklo, Runeblade of the Doomflight, it would be icing on the cake to have a special quote from its lore included under the name.</P> <P><A href="http://eq2.ogaming.com/db/items/RaklekloRunebladeoftheDoomflight.php" target=_blank>http://eq2.ogaming.com/db/items/RaklekloRunebladeoftheDoomflight.php</A></P> <P> </P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Quixtor on <span class=date_text>10-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:08 PM</span>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>I do miss the Identify spell bards and enchanters had in Eqlive that gave little tidbits of lore on special items.</DIV>

[Barx]

<div><blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<div>I do miss the Identify spell bards and enchanters had in Eqlive that gave little tidbits of lore on special items.</div><hr></blockquote>My god! I remember, in EQL being SO jealous of that spell! But then I found there was an item that let anyone cast that spell as the item's effect... I forget what it was but I remember spending far too much time getting that item =)And yeah, I've always known that as "flavor text" (I did play M:TG back in the day). I wish they would add it to more items. I loved the early spells that had that text... It adds some RP and fun to the game, takes away from the pure stats that make the game seem coldly mathmatical, adds a bit of spice into it =)</div>

[Quixtor]

<DIV>I remember those days too.  I had my Silvery Mask to Identify those mysterious items...</DIV> <DIV><A href="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=4761" target=_blank>http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=4761</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[TheWays]

<div></div>Anyone else remember that old thread that defined the Akhevan language? it was developed almost completely out of the identify spell.  For those that don't know, in the Shadows of Luclin expansion there was a race of Luclin created beings called the Akhevans.  Everything that dropped from them was in Akhevan, but the translation could be found with the identify spell, slowly over time some dedicated folks started deciphering the language and found that it was actually very elaborate and involved nearly every aspect of the expansion.Those little nothing skeletons you were killing the newbie zones actually belonged to a tribe of "evil" Akhevans or the these elaborate grim reaper looking figured were actually the ghosts of the "good" Akhevans.  Infact, the hardest zone to get into in that expansion was deciphered, I thought it was just a cool sounding name, but who would have thought that "Vex Thall" actually meant something along the lines of "sacred heart".google lead me to this little website with a brief dictionary:<a href="http://news.thottbot.com/index.php?authors=-117&sidebars=Bliz&posts=205216" target="_blank">http://news.thottbot.com/index.php?authors=-117&sidebars=Bliz&posts=205216</a>for old times sake.<div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Yeah. the "Fleshless Tongue" as they called it wasn't so fleshless after all.</DIV>

[Kindayr]

<DIV>Isn't there a theory that the Akheva are behind the Obelisk and are Shadowmen or something lol?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just trying to catch up, been away for a while</DIV>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kindayr wrote:<BR> <DIV>Isn't there a theory that the Akheva are behind the Obelisk and are Shadowmen or something lol?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just trying to catch up, been away for a while</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Nope. None at all. The Akhevans are xenophobic. They'd never take interest in outsiders. In fact, they had a civil war over whether or not they should be allowed to learn the common tongue for thier advantage. The heretics who wanted to learn the common tongue lost. Badly.

[Kyvthuhlu]

<DIV>They weren't "heretics", those were actually the ruling party.  It was an insurgent conservative group that waged the civil war.  The ruling party wanted to take a more liberal stance on outsiders, and there was a subsect of rebellious conservatives.</DIV>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>But Aten Ha Ra was a direct priestess of Luclin. She was the ruler of the entire Akhevan Race and totally devistated preistess of Luclin Akel Ha Ra and her forces.</DIV>

[Kyvthuhlu]

<DIV>No she wasn't, she was the rebel leader that took over after ousting the former high priestess.  She took over - she wasn't the head until after the civil war.</DIV>

[Cusashorn]

<P>*looks up EQatlas*</P> <P>hmm. Akheva Ruins:</P> <P> </P> <P>"... However, the destruction of this great citadel had not stopped the conflict, for the two opposing factions of the Akhevian race remain - those loyal to the presiding priestess, Atenha'Ra, who resides in the new citadel of Vex Thal, and those who have been outcast from their society as heretics for their loyalty to the treacherous and deceased Akelha'Ra."</P> <P> </P> <P>Vex Thall:</P> <P>"The Akheva speak a sacred tongue known as the "Fleshless Tongue" in praise of the Dark Mistress, Luclin. Corrupted by the newcomers to Luclin, some Akheva started speaking the common tongue of the outsiders. This outraged the more pious Akheva, and the High Council decided to meet and discuss this problem. The King, Diabo Rentha, the high preist, Diabo Xin Thall, and even the prophet, Atenha'Ra, all agreed to banish any Akheva known to speak the common tongue. But the outcast Akheva saw the learning of the common tongue as an advantage, and not in any way disrespectful to their goddess. Sent into the wilds, the banished Akheva eventually constructed a magnificent temple dedicated to the Dark Mistress.</P> <P>The outcast Akheva eventually enslaved the tegi to do their bidding, turning them into dark shadows of their former selves. They carried out their devoted worship for years, undisturbed by the newcomers to Luclin - that is, until the Maiden's Scar occurred. The storm decimated their once proud fortress and surrounding lands. The Akheva took this as a sign of their goddess' anger. They became even more diligent in their prayers and sacrifices to Luclin. Today, the fortress is now but a former shell of its past greatness. The Akheva do not leave the fortress, staying secluded deep within its ruins, while the Shadow Tegi guard the halls with fanatic zeal. With traps and foes prevalent throughout the dark corridors, travelers to this realm will be in for a difficult journey, but tales of powerful weapons and such will inexorably urge the bravest onward.</P> <P>The altar priest oversees the day to day rituals dedicated to Luclin, while the Akheva plan to one day reclaim their former glory and rule the lands once more."</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Hmmm... Thats all the info I can find on the Akheva... So I"m not seeing that Atenha Ra were the rebels who took over, unless that was a detail that Akel Ha Ra tells you during the Vex Thall access quest.</P>

[Kyvthuhlu]

<DIV>There's your first problem - EQatlas is not canon to EverQuest 1 lore, verified by Vahlar, the EQ1 lore dev.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The CR site is down, but I'll find the thread by Grinkle that has an <EM>excellent</EM> detail of the Akhevan Civil War.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><A href="http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Lore&message.id=6171" target=_blank>http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Lore&message.id=6171</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Except for his crap about the Shissar, it's more or less dead on.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Kyvthuhlu on <span class=date_text>10-16-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:31 PM</span>

[TheWays]

<div></div>Since when was the EQ Atlas considered not canon?Its one of the few compilations of lore outside the games, much like the PnP books...this is the first I've heard it so entirely and blatantly discredited.Edit:And i just finished reading that post....perhaps we have conflicting definitions of dead on.There has been little if any lore that I experience throughout my progression of Luclin to back up these claims, infact quite the opposite.I don't want to even start debating the points of his post, except that virtually all points made in there are disproven in quest text and npc text.The author seems to have taken alot of artistic license in filling in the blanks and explaining how the zones became populated with various vegetations, etc./sighits really not even worth discussing.Did you experience the expansion pack directly? or are you taking your experiences from this and other misleading posts?<div></div><p>Message Edited by TheWays on <span class=date_text>10-16-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:52 PM</span>

[Kyvthuhlu]

<P></P> <HR> Since when was the EQ Atlas considered not canon?<BR>Its one of the few compilations of lore outside the games, much like the PnP books...<BR>this is the first I've heard it so entirely and blatantly discredited. <HR> <P>It has <EM>never</EM> been considered canon.  The PnP books even less so - they are chalk filled with contradictions and have never been considered "canon".</P> <P>They've always been considered "interesting outside sources".</P><p>Message Edited by Kyvthuhlu on <span class=date_text>10-16-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:40 PM</span>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>The Maps of Myrist has never been considered canon?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Uhhhh yeah.... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then why was it PUBLISHED by Sony Online Entertainment?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then why did Vhalen write down WORD FOR FREAKIN WORD, the description of The Laahr Tribe and Talysra and the Island in Erud's Crossing <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=7731#M7731" target=_blank>in this thread here?</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Kyvthuhlu]

<DIV> <DIV> <HR> The Maps of Myrist has never been considered canon?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Uhhhh yeah.... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then why was it PUBLISHED by Sony Online Entertainment?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then why did Vhalen write down WORD FOR FREAKIN WORD, the description of The Laahr Tribe and Talysra and the Island in Erud's Crossing <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=7731#M7731" target=_blank><FONT color=#c8c1b5>in this thread here?</FONT></A> <HR> </DIV></DIV> <P>Never, not once, has it been a valid source for EverQuest 1.  If Vhalen made it canon for EQ 2, that's fine, but do me a favor, and don't tell me that it's canon for EQ 1 - it's not.  Published by Sony means...very little.</P>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>yeah... Thats why Sony went on and on advertising it and selling the item from thier own website and telling everyone that it's a great source of lore on EQ.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guess what: It's canon. In fact, You wouldn't have ANY information on the Akheva outside of what Akel Ha Ra tells you if it wasn't. And she doesn't tell you much.</DIV>

[Kyvthuhlu]

<DIV> <DIV> <HR> Guess what: It's canon. In fact, You wouldn't have ANY information on the Akheva outside of what Akel Ha Ra tells you if it wasn't. And she doesn't tell you much. <HR> </DIV></DIV> <P>Guess what, it's not canon, you're thinking wishfully, it's been stated it's not canon by EQ 1's lore dev...of whom, you are not :-</P> <P>If she doesn't tell you much, that's what you're left to work with, as Vahlar likes to say, they sometimes like to leave it ambiguous.</P> <P>You can like it, that doesn't make your statements more official than the EQ 1 dev's :-  Nice try though.</P> <DIV> <HR> yeah... Thats why Sony went on and on advertising it and selling the item from thier own website and telling everyone that it's a great source of lore on EQ. <HR> </DIV> <P>It's an excellent source of lore.</P> <P>Contradictory and unofficial lore.</P><p>Message Edited by Kyvthuhlu on <span class=date_text>10-16-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:50 PM</span>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>It doesn't contradict anything in EQ's lore. The only thing it contradicts is any zone that got revamped since it's release such as Sleeper's Tomb, Skyshrine, and others, simply because it doesn't have that information.</DIV>

[Waroa]

The atlas is indeed outdated (with the last few expansions it dosen't even cover half the zones anymore) however having played EQLive for 2 years after POP came out i have to say that the lore in that book does seem to be quite accurate.

[Kyvthuhlu]

<DIV> <DIV> <HR> It doesn't contradict anything in EQ's lore. The only thing it contradicts is any zone that got revamped since it's release such as Sleeper's Tomb, Skyshrine, and others, simply because it doesn't have that information. <HR> </DIV></DIV> <P>No, it contradicts some of the most inane crap, all the way down to Galeth Varadeth.  <BR></P> <DIV><EM>As someone pointed out, the in-game sources are your first resource.  The atlas is a good secondary resource as are a lot of our player's sites and compilations.</EM>  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>Vahlar-Dev</EM></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This was her statement, she has continually compared it to fan fiction and player sites.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Examples of contradiction:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Galeth Varadeth's back story</DIV> <DIV>-The statement that Queen Naythox Thex sent Ambassador D'Vinn</DIV> <DIV>-It refers to Porlos as a "Kromzek hero that slew Hsagra", presenting her to the king.  Porlos was Tormax's ancestor, not just "some hero".</DIV> <DIV>-The entire story of Veksar is off.</DIV> <DIV>-NPC placement is off throughout the entire book...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and so on, and so on.</DIV>

[TheWays]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Kyvthuhlu wrote:<p>No, it contradicts some of the most inane crap, all the way down to Galeth Varadeth. </p><div><em>As someone pointed out, the in-game sources are your first resource.  The atlas is a good secondary resource as are a lot of our player's sites and compilations.</em> </div><div> </div><div><em>Vahlar-Dev</em></div><div> </div><div>This was her statement, she has continually compared it to fan fiction and player sites.</div><div> </div><hr size="2" width="100%">For starters I wouldn't include all player's sites and compilations as fan fiction, there are many eq2 sites that have word for word copies of various books, npc text, dev chatter, etc.  If Vhalen made a post about a lore topic on CastersRealm should it be dismissed as mere employee fanfiction?Second, if I recall the Maps of Myrist was released approximately the same time as Planes of Power, and covered the Lore of all the zones from Planes of Power back (EQ, RoK, SoV, SoL, PoP).  Interestingly, Vahlar (aka Holly Longdale) was first credited as being a developer for the Everquest series with the release of LDoN, before that was Amanda Flock who is credited for work on:<font color="#ffffff"><a href="http://www.mobygames.com/game/untold-legends-the-warriors-code" target="_blank">Untold Legends: The Warrior's Code</a></font><font color="#ffffff"> (2006)</font><font color="#ffffff"></font><font color="#ffffff"><a href="http://www.mobygames.com/game/untold-legends-brotherhood-of-the-blade" target="_blank">Untold Legends: Brotherhood of the Blade</a></font><font color="#ffffff"> (2005)</font><font color="#ffffff"></font><font color="#ffffff"><a href="http://www.mobygames.com/game/everquest-ii" target="_blank">EverQuest II</a></font><font color="#ffffff"> (2004)</font><font color="#ffffff"></font><font color="#ffffff"><a href="http://www.mobygames.com/game/everquest-online-adventures" target="_blank">EverQuest Online Adventures</a></font><font color="#ffffff"> (2003)</font><font color="#ffffff"><a href="http://www.mobygames.com/company/sony-online-entertainment-inc" target="_blank"></a></font><font color="#ffffff"></font><font color="#ffffff"><a href="http://www.mobygames.com/game/everquest-planes-of-power" target="_blank">EverQuest: Planes of Power</a></font><font color="#ffffff"> (2002)</font><font color="#ffffff"></font><font color="#ffffff"><a href="http://www.mobygames.com/game/everquest-shadows-of-luclin" target="_blank">EverQuest: Shadows of Luclin</a></font><font color="#ffffff"> (2001)</font><font color="#ffffff"></font><font color="#ffffff"><a href="http://www.mobygames.com/game/everquest-the-scars-of-velious" target="_blank">EverQuest: The Scars of Velious</a></font><font color="#ffffff"> (2000)as well as being the Lore Compiler for the Everquest AtlasBefore that, I'm not sure who wore the head lore developer hat...Bill Trost I believe, but uncertain.So, I'm sincerely sorry you choose to only consider Holly Longdales "lore" as canon, but I'd rather take Amanda Flocks especially as it pertains to Everquest 2 <span>:smileywink:</span></font></blockquote></div>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Yeah I played EQlive for 5 years and had never heard of Valhar before, quite frankly.</DIV>

[wori]

yeah, i think it would be great to find more items with lore info.  maybe someting like a collection quest with a reward of something we can place in our house. just my 2cp<div></div>

[valkyrja]

one of my favorite items, Tarton's Wheel as a nice bit of attached lore.  Check it out below!<a href="http://eq2idb.com/item_details.php?item=NzM3Mzk2NTgz" target=_blank>http://eq2idb.com/item_details.php?item=NzM3Mzk2NTgz</a><div></div>

[Xdatinelia]

<P>I follow Eq1 and Eq2 Lore and have spent a lot of time in both games now.  That being said, I have to put my 2 cents in here.  Crusahorn, Vahlar is the EQ1 lore person, as listed here she introduced herself early in 2004: <A href="http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Lore&message.id=177#M177" target=_blank>http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Lore&message.id=177#M177</A></P> <P>As to The Everquest Atlas being canon, it is not, it is a resource not omg hard fact, as listed here, (Partialy quoted in this thread earlier, post linked here for thiose that feel a need to check it out)</P> <P><A href="http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Lore&message.id=7274&query.id=71156#M7274" target=_blank>http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Lore&message.id=7274&query.id=71156#M7274</A></P> <P>The Full quote is as follows:<BR></P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Vahlar-Dev wrote:</P> <DIV>As someone pointed out, the in-game sources are your first resource.  The atlas is a good secondary resource as are a lot of our player's sites and compilations. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There are a lot of complexities with lore as far as perspective.  I know a lot of you want cold, hard facts a lot of time and most of the time I can't give it, because of perspectives.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I try where I can to give absolutes where I believe it's appropriate to give them, but outside of that, it's fair and encouraged to offer your own view and perspective which a lot of you do here.  Some great dialogues have flowered here as a result of ambiguity and I'd never want to put an end to that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sorry I've not been more present.  Things are kinda busy here!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Vahlar</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>AND:<BR></DIV> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>I'm going to expand a bit on what I stated earlier.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2><FONT color=#ffffff>Many of you know that I often hesitate to call out specific references and sources because accuracy and sources have to be taken on a case by case </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>basis.</FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2><FONT color=#ffffff>For example, if a player copies Live Event text on their board or web site, that's a really good source for an in-game event that isn't officially </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>documented and disseminated by our team.  If someone posts their perspective of a Live Event in a roleplay fashion, it's probably not a reliable </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>source for facts, especially if that person only experienced an event from the point of view of their "faction."</FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2><FONT color=#ffffff>In the same way, a high elf in Felwithe may tout the humility and righteousness of her king, yet a storyline we publish may show King Tearis Thex </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>in a different light.  Here it's a matter of perspective and what you, as a player, identify with.</FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2><FONT color=#ffffff>A dwarf in Norrath may claim he's lived for 100,000 years and played poker with Brell Serilis.  Does that mean it's true?  No.  If I said in this </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>case that all in-game references are strictly "correct," then I'd be wrong. However, if someone checks the current year in <B>EverQuest</B>, they can </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>determine that, as far as the year appears, the dwarf is pullin' yer leg.  Whether he played poker with Brell is something only he knows.</FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2><FONT color=#ffffff>This is what I mean by perspective and resources. Sometimes with research you can make some determinations by using several sources.  Even that </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>can be a slippery slope as I see some of you take information from within the game, supplement it with EQ RPG lore, <B>Atlas</B> lore, and then some EQII </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>storyline. It's in these cases where it becomes difficult to define what's right and wrong as far as resources go and it's even more difficult for </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>me to be able to step in and lay down the lore law. Sometimes all sources are correct as they use the same background, but sometimes the story has </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>veered off into a different direction that separates our games. For most official documents and across our games, we generally stick to the same </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>tenets, i.e. Rallos Zek is the god of War, not a cheese salesman.   </FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Of course, sometimes there are no answers, but you are free to create your own notions.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2><FONT color=#ffffff>I can and do try to give you the cold hard facts as they pertain largely to the common background that most of our games use.  Also, general </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>facts, I can offer up, but most of you already know this information.</FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2><FONT color=#ffffff>As a storyteller, I'd rather leave most of it ambiguous and have you apply your own perspectives and thoughts to the game and its character.  A </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>dark elf that grew up in Neriak will have seen different facts than a gnome in Ak'Anon. Even the books in the Plane of Knowledge are peppered by </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>points of view.</FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2><FONT color=#ffffff>As some of you may have seen, there is a lot of background lore for DoD in the manual, something we haven't done in a very long time.  I wanted to </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>see the reaction to it and if it seems people like to read or have the lore available to them, then I'd like to continue that in the future.  A </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>lot of the stuff you're reading was written by the team as we built the expansion and it's fun to see it actually make it out there after we spent </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>many hours piecing it all together.</FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Vahlar</FONT></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Some lore is correct, some may not be due to games starting to have their own life.  I personaly think if I can not find it in game, in Eq2 it is not fact for eq2.  Pre-PoP lore seems to be most of what eq2 used, however you can not say just pre-PoP lore, due to the timeline of eq1 there are things that still happened in eq2 that were post PoP such as the LoY story line with froglocks (They would not be smart or playable w/o this great story) and I am pretty sure I have seen some of the LDoN lore in eq2 concerning anything about the Elder elf race whose name escapes me atm.</P>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Whats the point in stating that something isn't canon when it existed longer than your own job did?</DIV>

[Xdatinelia]

<P>You can not take something with glaring techinical and lore things as canon, it is useless to try.</P> <P>As the lore itself is <STRONG>in game</STRONG>, and it grows, changes and evolves the book is no longer canon, it is just a resource to be referenced, but not taken as the ONLY fact.</P> <P>AN example of non canon literature in Atlas:</P> <P>LoY hasn't happened yet when the EQ Atlas came out.  Yet we can see in EQ2 it DID happen, the Froglocks are still wandering around Gukta/Grobb.  How can the EQ atlas be right on everything and LoY Have happened?</P>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Because the EQ atlas was released before LOY! It barely even previews the Planes of Power themselves.</DIV>

[TheWays]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Xdatinelia wrote:<div></div><p>I follow Eq1 and Eq2 Lore and have spent a lot of time in both games now.  That being said, I have to put my 2 cents in here.  Crusahorn, Vahlar is the EQ1 lore person, as listed here she introduced herself early in 2004: <a href="http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Lore&message.id=177#M177" target="_blank">http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Lore&message.id=177#M177</a></p><p><font color="#ffff00">As to The Everquest Atlas being canon, it is not, it is a resource not omg hard fact, as listed here, (Partialy quoted in this thread earlier, post linked here for thiose that feel a need to check it out)</font></p><p><a href="http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Lore&message.id=7274&query.id=71156#M7274" target="_blank">http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Lore&message.id=7274&query.id=71156#M7274</a></p><hr size="2" width="100%">I fail to see how that quote supports the highlighted statement, it does state that folks will take their experience and combine it with the "facts" listed in the resources listed (EQ RPG, Atlas, EQII) to create an offshoot of lore that is not canon and I believe that is the point of her statement.  This is supported by the way that she states the difference between a word for word documentation of a live event and the posting of someones experience of a live event.We all have opinions and bias in regards to storylines, some of us will favor the villain and others will favor the hero.  Often times we will take an obscure piece of lore to support our bias, when in truth and fairness it can go either way.  I don't see that as being the case here at all.  I don't see any evidence (since we are considering Holly Longdale to be the source of what is and isn't canon) supported in this quote to support the claim that the atlas or the EQ RPG book for that matter is just a biased opinion.The same people that wrote the Atlas wrote the storylines for the various zones of the expansions listed in, they were even in charge (Amanda Flock) of continuity in the expansion packs as it pertained to the rest of the game.  I will still continue to use the Atlas as a reference source, a listing of the whys that something took place or something looks the way it does now.  If you choose not to take its material as a reputable source, thats your right, but I would appreciate if you wouldn't outright discredit its contents without better proof than "the new lore dev made this statement which alludes to it not being 100 percent accurate".<p><a href="http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Lore&message.id=7274&query.id=71156#M7274" target="_blank"></a></p></blockquote></div>

[Kyvthuhlu]

<DIV> <HR> Whats the point in stating that something isn't canon when it existed longer than your own job did? <HR> </DIV> <P>When you're the lore dev, you get a certain level of autonomy that supercedes posters on the eq2 forums.</P><p>Message Edited by Kyvthuhlu on <span class=date_text>10-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:52 PM</span>

[Nocturnal Aby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kyvthuhlu wrote:<BR> <DIV> <HR> Whats the point in stating that something isn't canon when it existed longer than your own job did? <HR> </DIV> <P>When you're the lore dev, you get a certain level of autonomy that supercedes posters on the eq2 forums.</P> <P>Message Edited by Kyvthuhlu on <SPAN class=date_text>10-19-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>12:52 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Perhaps...but the documents in question were not written by posters on the eq2 forums, they were written by the individuals who were the lore devs at the time of the document's publication.  What you are arguing is that a later lore dev supercedes a former one.  I would personally prefer to fo with the dev who was in charge when the zone came out.  Vahlar's comments are canon when refering to things like DoDH, DoN, and possibly even some of the Discord series, (GoD, OoW), but when one the lore dev who was in charge when SoL was released says that the Shik'Nar are a semi-intellige race of humanoid insect, capable of crafting weapons and sewing clothing, then I'm going to take that word over devs who came along later and didn't like that idea, so they say, "No, they are just a bunch of bugs."  (This is an example.  No dev has said that the Shik'Nar are merely powerful bugs).  Do things change?  Yes, as you pointed out, Grobb, once home of the trolls, was taken over by the Frogloks.  However, that doesn't make the lore obsolete, as it, at one time, was still true.  It simply makes it incomplete.  The information about the NPCs, and the places listed is still true, it is simply in the past of EQ time.  (Though, from what I understand, the evils have cleared Gukta out, and returned it to the Trolls.  I guess the Teir'Dal were tired of the smell).  According to Vahlar, Mayong is a god.  From all evidence, in EQ2, this is not true.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Nocturnal Abyss on <span class=date_text>10-24-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:31 AM</span>

[TheWays]

<div><blockquote><hr>Nocturnal Abyss wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Kyvthuhlu wrote: <div></div> <div></div> <div> <hr> Whats the point in stating that something isn't canon when it existed longer than your own job did? <hr> </div> <p>When you're the lore dev, you get a certain level of autonomy that supercedes posters on the eq2 forums.</p> <p>Message Edited by Kyvthuhlu on <span class="date_text">10-19-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:52 PM</span></p> <hr> </blockquote> <p>Perhaps...but the documents in question were not written by posters on the eq2 forums, they were written by the individuals who were the lore devs at the time of the document's publication.  What you are arguing is that a later lore dev supercedes a former one.  I would personally prefer to fo with the dev who was in charge when the zone came out.  Vahlar's comments are canon when refering to things like DoDH, DoN, and possibly even some of the Discord series, (GoD, OoW), but when one the lore dev who was in charge when SoL was released says that the Shik'Nar are a semi-intellige race of humanoid insect, capable of crafting weapons and sewing clothing, then I'm going to take that word over devs who came along later and didn't like that idea, so they say, "No, they are just a bunch of bugs."  (This is an example.  No dev has said that the Shik'Nar are merely powerful bugs).  Do things change?  Yes, as you pointed out, Grobb, once home of the trolls, was taken over by the Frogloks.  However, that doesn't make the lore obsolete, as it, at one time, was still true.  It simply makes it incomplete.  The information about the NPCs, and the places listed is still true, it is simply in the past of EQ time.  (Though, from what I understand, the evils have cleared Gukta out, and returned it to the Trolls.  I guess the Teir'Dal were tired of the smell).  According to Vahlar, Mayong is a god.  From all evidence, in EQ2, this is not true.</p> <p>Message Edited by Nocturnal Abyss on <span class="date_text">10-24-2006</span> <span class="time_text">09:31 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Very well said, kudos.</div>