Elves

[Evilcow]

<DIV>is there any lore anywhere (eq1 eq2 or EQOA if i can find that in my piles pf games) that say how the origanl elves split into high elves and wood elves? i know their origanal city was burnt to a crisp by solusk ro (btw that would make a nice dungeon IF its not allready in DoF) and that they had a city in the trees and a marble city on antonica but i can't see them liveing in seperate environ ments changeing their appearance and makeing them split into two differnt races</DIV>

[EQ2Playa432]

<DIV>I don't think they ever split. There were created as two seperate races.</DIV>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Yeah this isn't covered much in the lore behind the Elves. We know that the first elves inhabited Takish'Hiz. We know that the Dark Elves were created by Innoruuk when he took the Elven King and Queen. We know that the Elves continued on when the king's brother took over as rule, which now makes King Thex of Neriak and King Thex of Felwithe distant cousins.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>From what I understand, from EQOA, You only played as the "Elf" race, with no distinguishable differences between wood and high elves, but rather the class you chose determined which you were.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We don't know anything about who ruled over the Wood Elves of Kelethin, or when the physical differences started showing up, or what.</DIV>

[RaphaNissi]

According to their respective history books, they were created as separate races. One from light and the other from an oak leaf.  The High Elves were created first (which kind of explains their uppity attitude).  Their history seems very intertwined which is maybe why they seem to have been the same race at some point. <div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>yeah that's possible that they're societies just mingled together for so long before they decided to finally split off into thier own cultures. Wood Elves and High Elves are cousin races after all...</DIV>

[RaphaNissi]

It mentions that Takish-Hiz was built of both wood and marble.  Both of the elven races would thus feel very at home in that place.  If they were created as separate races and both lived in the city under the rule of the one King and Queen, that might also explain why there isn't a separate ruler ever mentioned for the Feir'Dal in Kelethin.  They very well may have continued to live under the rule of the King and Queen in Felwithe but would feel much more at home in the trees than in the great marble city.<div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>I do remember mention of a ruler of Kelethin once a long long time ago when I still played EQ. I can't remember what his name was though, or when I heard it. :/</DIV>

[RaphaNissi]

<div><blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<div>I do remember mention of a ruler of Kelethin once a long long time ago when I still played EQ. I can't remember what his name was though, or when I heard it. :/</div><hr></blockquote>I found these comments on the eq lore forums.From Beta lore...<font face="Bookman Old Style">The elves of Kelethin were tentative at first and the lord of Kelethin</font><font face="Bookman Old Style">, an old elf </font><font face="Bookman Old Style">by the name of Carandril,......</font> <p align="left"><font face="Bookman Old Style">The lord of kelethin </font><font face="Bookman Old Style">, desperate for help, sent word of his plight to the heart of the empire: Felwithe.</font></p><p align="left"></p>This was anther comment made which makes some sense...<p>I just posted in another thread regarding Kelethin and its leader.  King Tearis Thex is king of the high elves and is recognized by the wood elves much in the same way the British colonies (like Canada) used to regard Queen Elizabeth.  </p> The closest person you'll come to as a leader or respected elder in Kelethin is The Heartwood Master.  He is revered due to his age and that he supposedly communicates directly with TunareAnother person mentioned that the only factions associated with Kelethin were  Faydark's Champions, Soldiers of Tunare, Emerald Warriors, King Tearis Thex and Clerics of Tunare.  To me, these things all point to Kelethin having leaders but still being under the umbrella of Felwithe.</div>

[Ama]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <DIV>Yeah this isn't covered much in the lore behind the Elves. We know that the first elves inhabited Takish'Hiz. We know that the Dark Elves were created by Innoruuk when he took the Elven King and Queen. We know that the Elves continued on when the king's brother took over as rule, which now makes King Thex of Neriak and King Thex of Felwithe distant cousins.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>From what I understand, from EQOA, You only played as the "Elf" race, with no distinguishable differences between wood and high elves, but rather the class you chose determined which you were.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We don't know anything about who ruled over the Wood Elves of Kelethin, or when the physical differences started showing up, or what.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Well there was the Elf race within the city of Felwithe where the great fayspire resided.  As for the wood elves I don't know what exactly the lore behind them was but I think it had to deal with them breaking off of the regular elves.  The wood elves were mostly like the humans in the Sure Fall glade being druids/rangers but they may have been for looks. </P> <P>Neriak was pretty much setup in EQOA with the dark elves happily worshiping dark gods and having their training centers.  The only part in EQOA that I think many dispute is the area of Takish'Hiz and what may reside in there.<BR></P>

[Zarafein]

<DIV>I think the history books just tell a romantic creation story.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>from:Interview with the EverQuest Online Adventures Develepment team on January 24th, 2003</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Differing from EverQuest for the PC, you'll notice that Ogres, Iksar, Half Elves and Vah Shir aren't available. From within the mountain fortress of Oggok the Ogres still endure their self imposed exile as they pick up the pieces of their once glorious empire. During the EQOA era the Iksar are isolated to the southern continent of Kunark, the various tribes still vying for dominion over one another. The elves have yet to split between the Wood Elves and the High Elves. During this age their differences remain entirely philosophical. However, the dark elves are still as spiteful and envious as ever. Half-Elves do not exist during this erThe elves are too caught up in their own struggle to pay much attention to the Human race, let alone fall in love with any of them</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RaphaNissi wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <DIV>I do remember mention of a ruler of Kelethin once a long long time ago when I still played EQ. I can't remember what his name was though, or when I heard it. :/</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I found these comments on the eq lore forums.<BR><BR>From Beta lore...<BR><BR><FONT face="Bookman Old Style"><BR>The elves of Kelethin were tentative at first and the lord of Kelethin</FONT><FONT face="Bookman Old Style">, an old elf </FONT><FONT face="Bookman Old Style">by the name of Carandril,......</FONT> <P align=left><FONT face="Bookman Old Style">The lord of kelethin </FONT><FONT face="Bookman Old Style">, desperate for help, sent word of his plight to the heart of the empire: Felwithe.</FONT></P> <P align=left><BR></P>This was anther comment made which makes some sense...<BR><BR> <P>I just posted in another thread regarding Kelethin and its leader.  King Tearis Thex is king of the high elves and is recognized by the wood elves much in the same way the British colonies (like Canada) used to regard Queen Elizabeth.  </P>The closest person you'll come to as a leader or respected elder in Kelethin is The Heartwood Master.  He is revered due to his age and that he supposedly communicates directly with Tunare<BR><BR><BR>Another person mentioned that the only factions associated with Kelethin were  Faydark's Champions, Soldiers of Tunare, Emerald Warriors, King Tearis Thex and Clerics of Tunare.  To me, these things all point to Kelethin having leaders but still being under the umbrella of Felwithe.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Hmmm.. no it wasn't him... oh well.

[Mirander_1]

<div><blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<div>I do remember mention of a ruler of Kelethin once a long long time ago when I still played EQ. I can't remember what his name was though, or when I heard it. :/</div><hr></blockquote>I think I remember hearing about it somewhere too.  I can't remember where I heard it (probably on these forums) but the name was something like... I think it was Heartwood Elder; I don't know, it was 'something' Elder, I know that . </div>

[RaphaNissi]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Mirander wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<div>I do remember mention of a ruler of Kelethin once a long long time ago when I still played EQ. I can't remember what his name was though, or when I heard it. :/</div><hr></blockquote>I think I remember hearing about it somewhere too.  I can't remember where I heard it (probably on these forums) but the name was something like... I think it was Heartwood Elder; I don't know, it was 'something' Elder, I know that . </div><hr></blockquote>This was in my earlier comment.  Is this who you are thinking about?  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><i>"The closest person you'll come to as a leader or respected elder in Kelethin is The Heartwood Master.  He is revered due to his age and that he supposedly communicates directly with Tunare"</i></div><p>Message Edited by RaphaNissi on <span class=date_text>09-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:30 PM</span>

[Evilcow]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zarafein wrote:<BR> <DIV>I think the history books just tell a romantic creation story.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>from:Interview with the EverQuest Online Adventures Develepment team on January 24th, 2003</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Differing from EverQuest for the PC, you'll notice that Ogres, Iksar, Half Elves and Vah Shir aren't available. From within the mountain fortress of Oggok the Ogres still endure their self imposed exile as they pick up the pieces of their once glorious empire. During the EQOA era the Iksar are isolated to the southern continent of Kunark, the various tribes still vying for dominion over one another. The elves have yet to split between the Wood Elves and the High Elves. During this age their differences remain entirely philosophical. However, the dark elves are still as spiteful and envious as ever. Half-Elves do not exist during this erThe elves are too caught up in their own struggle to pay much attention to the Human race, let alone fall in love with any of them</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>yeah i had seen that before and i use to play EQOA and EQ1 and i knew that they spilt i didn't know how or why but then again most EQOA lore doesn't affect EQ2 so maybe they never split in our timeline?

[Mirander_1]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>RaphaNissi wrote:<div></div><div><blockquote><hr></blockquote>This was in my earlier comment.  Is this who you are thinking about?  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><i>"The closest person you'll come to as a leader or respected elder in Kelethin is The Heartwood Master.  He is revered due to his age and that he supposedly communicates directly with Tunare"</i></div><p><span class="time_text"></span></p><hr></blockquote>Heh, woops, missed that in your comment <span>:smileyhappy:</span>.  Yeah, that's what I was thinking about</div>

[ironman2000]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Evilcow wrote:<BR> <DIV>is there any lore anywhere (eq1 eq2 or EQOA if i can find that in my piles pf games) that say how the origanl elves split into high elves and wood elves? i know their origanal city was burnt to a crisp by solusk ro (btw that would make a nice dungeon IF its not allready in DoF) and that they had a city in the trees and a marble city on antonica but i can't see them liveing in seperate environ ments changeing their appearance and makeing them split into two differnt races</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>and don't forget the original king and queen of the elves was taken away by Inny and tortured for hundreds of years till they turned into Tier'Dal <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RaphaNissi wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mirander wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <DIV>I do remember mention of a ruler of Kelethin once a long long time ago when I still played EQ. I can't remember what his name was though, or when I heard it. :/</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I think I remember hearing about it somewhere too.  I can't remember where I heard it (probably on these forums) but the name was something like... I think it was Heartwood Elder; I don't know, it was 'something' Elder, I know that . <BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>This was in my earlier comment.  Is this who you are thinking about?  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR><I><BR>"The closest person you'll come to as a leader or respected elder in Kelethin is The Heartwood Master.  He is revered due to his age and that he supposedly communicates directly with Tunare"</I></DIV> <P>Message Edited by RaphaNissi on <SPAN class=date_text>09-04-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:30 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>No no. it was not the Heartwood Master. The guy deffinitly had a.... "Ruler" name. Ehh nevermind. not important.

[RaphaNissi]

<div><blockquote><hr>Evilcow wrote:<div>is there any lore anywhere (eq1 eq2 or EQOA if i can find that in my piles pf games) that say how the origanl elves split into high elves and wood elves? i know their origanal city was burnt to a crisp by solusk ro (btw that would make a nice dungeon IF its not allready in DoF) and that they had a city in the trees and a marble city on antonica but i can't see them liveing in seperate environ ments changeing their appearance and makeing them split into two differnt races</div><hr></blockquote>I was reading your post again and noticed you said thier city was "burnt to a crisp."  The city was actually taken over by sand because the sun dried out the forest.  There also were not separate cities with one in the trees and one made of marble.  The city of Takish-Hiz(which is a dungeon in eq)  was built of both wood and marble.  They didn't separate until they were in Faydwer.  Hope all this information that we have posted has helped you with your question. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Rezikai]

<DIV>there is some Lore on Tak Hiz when you read lore on the original Overlord from the early days of Tunaria pre-EQoA times... this was back when the original king and queen were kidnapped in a reluctant trade back for thier son who was in danger.. some more Tak Hiz info in availible in EQoA particularly the lvl 47 quest where you learn of the last stand of the good treants to defend Tak Hiz and thier great Treant leader ...umm.. Korigant i believe was his name was struck down by the Overlords forces in the battle of TakHiz</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>there was some lore about it in the Overlords lore as part of the original dark forces that attacked and sacked Tak Hiz since "The Great Burning" was the changing of the Elddar forest into a desert... should you wish to read it</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>when you play EQoA much of Tak is starting to sink into the sand so by the age of turmoil its possible to be under the ground/sand..  and many of the Tier Dal raiders are still wandering the city...the elves moved north to FaySpire and Telethin... both temporary cities (with in shouting distance across from each other but still seperate) as they prepared for thier travel back to Faydwer</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>oh... and as for all the hub-bub about a troll looking inny..... I wouldnt mind a troll looking innoruk.. but if he has to be something diffferent i say go with the Champions of Norrath version of Innoruk.. he looked much better imo then the pigfaced guy in EQ1.. and somewhat better then the troll looking guy in the eq2 concept art.(if that is him since Lyndro said its not... but.. trusting Lyndro is like trusting that drunkard brother to show up to help move furniture :smileytongue:&nbsp<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Pyrrhx]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RaphaNissi wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR>  There also were not separate cities with one in the trees and one made of marble.  The city of Takish-Hiz(which is a dungeon in eq)  was built of both wood and marble.  They didn't separate until they were in Faydwer.  Hope all this information that we have posted has helped you with your question. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>The poster was likely speaking of Fayspires and Tethelin in regards to "city in the trees and a marble city on antonica," two of the remaining elven cities on antonica in EQOA.  </P> <P>Using EQOA and EQ as frames of reference (as well as the EQOA dev post up above), philosophical differences between the two races accounted for the different types and locales of elven dwelling prior to their split on Faydwer.</P> <P>Also, it would only be assumption that the elves had but one city in the Eldar forest during the life period of Takish-Hiz.  </P> <P>Sorry for the hijack.  <BR></P>

[IrishWonder]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pyrrhx wrote: <P>Also, it would only be assumption that the elves had but one city in the Eldar forest during the life period of Takish-Hiz. <BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>An untrue assumption, if we're basing it on EQ2 lore :smileywink: The Sul'Dal split from the original Elddar Elves and created Ahket Ahken in the Elddar Forest according to Desert of Flames lore.</DIV>

[Mepha]

<div></div><div></div><div><blockquote><hr>ironman2000 wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Evilcow wrote: <div>is there any lore anywhere (eq1 eq2 or EQOA if i can find that in my piles pf games) that say how the origanl elves split into high elves and wood elves? i know their origanal city was burnt to a crisp by solusk ro (btw that would make a nice dungeon IF its not allready in DoF) and that they had a city in the trees and a marble city on antonica but i can't see them liveing in seperate environ ments changeing their appearance and makeing them split into two differnt races</div> <hr> </blockquote>and don't forget the original king and queen of the elves was taken away by Inny and tortured for hundreds of years till they turned into Tier'Dal <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><hr></blockquote>Generally speaking, I lost huge amounts of respect for Tunare over this. What sort of Godess or God let's their creation(s) be taken and tortured for over 300 years and doesn't lift a finger? To me, apathy and indifference to evil rank right up there with evil doing because it is enabling.</div><p><span class="date_text"></span><span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by Mephala on <span class=date_text>09-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:43 AM</span>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mephala wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR>Generally speaking, I lost huge amounts of respect for Tunare over this. What sort of Godess or God let's their creation(s) be taken and tortured for over 300 years and doesn't lift a finger? <BR><BR><BR>To me, apathy and indifference to evil rank right up there with evil doing because it is enabling.<BR></DIV> <P><SPAN class=date_text></SPAN><SPAN class=time_text><BR></SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Mephala on <SPAN class=date_text>09-05-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:43 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You just assume that all gods automatically know of everything thats going on at every waking moment? They arn't Omnipresent. They can't spy on what other gods are doing.

[Evilcow]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pyrrhx wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RaphaNissi wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR>  There also were not separate cities with one in the trees and one made of marble.  The city of Takish-Hiz(which is a dungeon in eq)  was built of both wood and marble.  They didn't separate until they were in Faydwer.  Hope all this information that we have posted has helped you with your question. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>The poster was likely speaking of Fayspires and Tethelin in regards to "city in the trees and a marble city on antonica," two of the remaining elven cities on antonica in EQOA.  </P> <P>Using EQOA and EQ as frames of reference (as well as the EQOA dev post up above), philosophical differences between the two races accounted for the different types and locales of elven dwelling prior to their split on Faydwer.</P> <P>Also, it would only be assumption that the elves had but one city in the Eldar forest during the life period of Takish-Hiz.  </P> <P>Sorry for the hijack.  <BR></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>yeah thats what i was talking about and when i said burnt to a crisp i heard something along the lines of sul ro drying out the forest i thought he burnt it my bad there

[Kyvthuhlu]

<P>Because you asked about EQ live as well...</P> <P>They were all originally one race, the Elddar Elves.  The King and Queen Thex in Elddar were taken and turned into Teir'Dal.  After the rising of the Serpent Spine Mountains, the Elddar fled to Faydwer, and the upper class became Koada'dal, and the lower class became the Fier'Dal.</P> <P>In EQlive it's not evolution, as much as its just a reflection of which sects took on which traits.</P> <P>That's all just EQlive lore though.</P>

[DreamerClou]

I have a question, though I'm not sure it can be answered.  Which city was built first on Norrath -  Takish'Hiz (spelling) , Kelethin, or Felwithe.

[IrishWonder]

<DIV>Takish'Hiz was built long before Felwithe or Kelethin. Takish'Hiz was the first Elven city in the Elddar Forest (now the Desert of Ro) on the continent of Antonica. When that city was destroyed by the Curse of Ro, the Elves moved North, settling down for awhile, then eventually sailed across the Ocean of Tears to Faydwer where they built Felwithe and Kelethin.</DIV>

[Nocturnal Aby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <DIV>Yeah this isn't covered much in the lore behind the Elves. We know that the first elves inhabited Takish'Hiz. We know that the Dark Elves were created by Innoruuk when he took the Elven King and Queen. We know that the Elves continued on when the king's brother took over as rule, which now makes King Thex of Neriak and King Thex of Felwithe distant cousins.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>From what I understand, from EQOA, You only played as the "Elf" race, with no distinguishable differences between wood and high elves, but rather the class you chose determined which you were.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We don't know anything about who ruled over the Wood Elves of Kelethin, or when the physical differences started showing up, or what.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>This is one of the many flaws with EQoA lore being only 500 years behind EQ.  High Elves tend to live much longer than 500 years, and Wood Elves tend to live a little bit longer.  Thus there still would have been Elddar Elves walking around in EQ, whether they were walking around in Felwithe, or in Kelethin.  Personally, I think the distinction between the two was made earlier than EQoA.  EQoA sort of takes a bunch of events that happened at various times before EQ, and sticks them all in the same little era so that they can claim content.  Things such as the Erudite Migration (which was made after man had already made contact with elves and dwarves in Faydwer, in fact, some accounts in EQ make it sound like that was the FIRST time they had contact with the good elves).  In fact, Erud himself was in one of the first expiditions to Faydwer, and portions of his journal from that time were still around in EQ.  </P> <P>I have no idea what Verant's original concept of the elves included, if they ever had in mind the idea of the elves being one race, but the elves existed on Tunaria/Antonica for millenia before humans ever showed up.  Just another thought, but they could have still called themselves Elddar Elves, and been two distinct races.  Sort of like me calling myself American, even though I'm a tall, caucasion, blue-eyed, brunette.  In the same token, my buddy Mike can also calls himself American, and he's a little shorter, with brown skin, brown eyes, darker brown hair.</P> <P>The seat of the Elves power was in the Elddar Forest, so they could simply consider themselves Elddar elves.  It's where they all lived.  Also, just because that's where one city stood, don't be fooled into thinking that was their only city.  The Elves had settlements throughout Tunaria.  When the Jaggedpine zone was opened up, it was a Phalanx of Elves that came and stood outside the entrance to Surefall glade, because they recognized the Jaggedpine as ground that was precious to them when they had lived in Tunaria.  There are ruins all over the the world, dotting the Karanas, the mountains, and especially the deserts, where the seat of their power was.</P> <P>I think that with EQOA the programming and space available on a console game limited them, and therefore they simply made an "Elf" race, and told there lore guys to deal.  Five hundred years is not long enough for any elf race to differentiate to the extent they had in Everquest, especially to differentiate so much, and have no actual Elddar walking about, or for them to even refer to a time when they were one race.  It seems to me that Feir'Dal and Koada'Dal have existed seperately for much longer than a simple millenium</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P><BR> </P>

[Rezikai]

<FONT color=#ffcc33></FONT><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nocturnal Abyss wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <DIV>Yeah this isn't covered much in the lore behind the Elves. We know that the first elves inhabited Takish'Hiz. We know that the Dark Elves were created by Innoruuk when he took the Elven King and Queen. We know that the Elves continued on when the king's brother took over as rule, which now makes King Thex of Neriak and King Thex of Felwithe distant cousins.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>From what I understand, from EQOA, You only played as the "Elf" race, with no distinguishable differences between wood and high elves, but rather the class you chose determined which you were.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We don't know anything about who ruled over the Wood Elves of Kelethin, or when the physical differences started showing up, or what.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>This is one of the many flaws with EQoA lore being only 500 years behind EQ.  High Elves tend to live much longer than 500 years, and Wood Elves tend to live a little bit longer.  Thus there still would have been Elddar Elves walking around in EQ, whether they were walking around in Felwithe, or in Kelethin.  Personally, I think the distinction between the two was made earlier than EQoA.  EQoA sort of takes a bunch of events that happened at various times before EQ, and sticks them all in the same little era so that they can claim content.  Things such as the Erudite Migration (which was made after man had already made contact with elves and dwarves in Faydwer, in fact, some accounts in EQ make it sound like that was the FIRST time they had contact with the good elves).  In fact, Erud himself was in one of the first expiditions to Faydwer, and portions of his journal from that time were still around in EQ. </P> <P><FONT color=#ff9900>This i have to relook at in regards to Erud, he made the migration to Odus, but the Elves in Telethin/Fayspires were being seen setting up their own expedition back to their ancestrial home, and seeing as Erud is still alive in EQoA its not unfathomable he decides to go to with the expeition back to Faydwer.... </FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff9900>as for the 500 years age issue in EQoA the Elves and dwarves had made no secret of Faydwer was their home, you  just had to know what NPC's to talk to,  it was just looked on as we look at more as those of different decent look back at our ancestrial homes today ... like Europe or Asia... as for Elddar elves not walking around so much in EQlive eh,.. that may be a sticking point.. for those RPers that like to think the Elddar Elves are a long forgotten race, ... in a sense.. they were lost when the Elddar Forest was burned and the Dark forces sacked Tak Hiz (roughly 2-500 years prior to EQoA) so then the refugee survivors are setting up the return to Faydwer exedous... it could be said they were the next generation after the original Elddar Elves..</FONT></P> <P>I have no idea what Verant's original concept of the elves included, if they ever had in mind the idea of the elves being one race, but the elves existed on Tunaria/Antonica for millenia before humans ever showed up.  Just another thought, but they could have still called themselves Elddar Elves, and been two distinct races.  Sort of like me calling myself American, even though I'm a tall, caucasion, blue-eyed, brunette.  In the same token, my buddy Mike can also calls himself American, and he's a little shorter, with brown skin, brown eyes, darker brown hair.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff9900>This is what i see it as, a more slightly physical difference and more social/political difference with them.. much the way we say UK but w/in the UK there the English and those .. darn Irish (tugs at my red hair)</FONT></P> <P>The seat of the Elves power was in the Elddar Forest, so they could simply consider themselves Elddar elves.  It's where they all lived.  Also, just because that's where one city stood, don't be fooled into thinking that was their only city.  The Elves had settlements throughout Tunaria.  When the Jaggedpine zone was opened up, it was a Phalanx of Elves that came and stood outside the entrance to Surefall glade, because they recognized the Jaggedpine as ground that was precious to them when they had lived in Tunaria.  There are ruins all over the the world, dotting the Karanas, the mountains, and especially the deserts, where the seat of their power was.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff9900>This is correct the original Elddar Empire was vast, from the southeast area known as Al'Farak (zone of same name in EQoA) all the way to the karanas with the ruins left of the Al'Karad(zone also of same name in EQoA), both crucial points of that empire if i remember correctly.(note: when doing the mage/melee epics of EQoA the ancient mage in the ruins of Takish Hiz rambles on in his crazed talk of the old Elddar Empire realing from the defeats of these outposts before Takish Hiz itself fell).</FONT></P> <P>I think that with EQOA the programming and space available on a console game limited them, and therefore they simply made an "Elf" race, and told there lore guys to deal.  Five hundred years is not long enough for any elf race to differentiate to the extent they had in Everquest, especially to differentiate so much, and have no actual Elddar walking about, or for them to even refer to a time when they were one race.  It seems to me that Feir'Dal and Koada'Dal have existed seperately for much longer than a simple millenium</P> <P><FONT color=#ff9900>Eh this is the only part i really dont agree with,... EQoA had planned to introduce the Halfelf's into the game as the occasional flourish of a human and elf, but even though they exist in the game as "certain" NPC's and were to be set up as a playable race they decided not to use them, why?... only <STRONG><EM>Tom Wells</EM> </STRONG>could tell you. So the console limitation for me isnt really a good use for the singular "Elf" race, as  even more races were to be (and if Sapphyra gets it approved) and will be playable.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff9900>I look back at our own past..  500ish/1000ish years ago.. there was only Eurpe/Asia/Africa.. and the faint areas known in what is know Austraila.. as habited by the civilizations we know we came from today (tribes and migrant councils aside that is) so to me its quite plausible some generations decided to stay one philosophical path and others did not,...so as for the changes in the woodelf / highelf races Im thinking it possible...</FONT><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Porkchop133 on <span class=date_text>09-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:03 PM</span>

[Kyvthuhlu]

<P></P> <HR> This is one of the many flaws with EQoA lore being only 500 years behind EQ.  High Elves tend to live much longer than 500 years, and Wood Elves tend to live a little bit longer.  Thus there still would have been Elddar Elves walking around in EQ, whether they were walking around in Felwithe, or in Kelethin. <HR> <P>There's one in Western Wastes in EQ1 who has existed since the days of Elddar.</P>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>BTW, the High Elves live about 100 years longer than the Wood Elves. Just to clarify.</DIV>

[DreamerClou]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> IrishWonder wrote:<BR> <DIV>Takish'Hiz was built long before Felwithe or Kelethin. Takish'Hiz was the first Elven city in the Elddar Forest (now the Desert of Ro) on the continent of Antonica. When that city was destroyed by the Curse of Ro, the Elves moved North, settling down for awhile, then eventually sailed across the Ocean of Tears to Faydwer where they built Felwithe and Kelethin.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>That's what I figured, however I am hearing two different stories and that's just in this thread alone.  Some other posters are stating that after the fall of Takish'Hiz the elves moved to Fayspire / Telethin.  These two new cities were only temporary until the elves moved "back" to their "ancestrial" home on Faydwer.  The two key words being "back" and "ancestrial".  That would imply that the light elves were originally from the continent of Faydwer.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by DreamerCloud9 on <span class=date_text>09-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:21 AM</span>

[Pyrrhx]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DreamerCloud9 wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>That's what I figured, however I am hearing two different stories and that's just in this thread alone.  Some other posters are stating that after the fall of Takish'Hiz the elves moved to Fayspire / Telethin.  These two new cities were only temporary until the elves moved "back" to their "ancestrial" home on Faydwer.  The two key words being "back" and "ancestrial".  That would imply that the light elves were originally from the continent of Faydwer.</BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Message Edited by DreamerCloud9 on <SPAN class=date_text>09-07-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>12:21 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>A few points to clear it up.</P> <UL> <LI>Faydwer was not their ancestral home; that was a bad choice of words.</LI> <LI>Takish-Hiz was the first elven city, but not the only elven city on Tunaria.</LI> <LI>The fallen elven cities of Tunaria were Al-farak, Al-Karad, Tak-xiv (ruined woodelf village in what used to be the elddar forest), and Takish-Hiz.</LI> <LI>Fayspires and Tethelin (EQOA) were the 2 most populated remaining elven cities at the time.  There were three other remaining elven outposts: Proudpine outpost far west of Takish-hiz; Mariel Village in the forests N of the Jaggedpine and S of the Unkempt; Feydwell village SE of lake Neriuss and all but wiped out by Tier-dal incursion.</LI> <LI>Posters that played EQOA did not have access to Faydwer, but NPC's did speak of faydwer and it was known that the spires under construction in Winter's Deep were meant to transport the elves to faydwer. </LI> <LI>Reasoning behind porting the entire elven population:  Getting to the nearest port would have required them to march through Tier'dal controlled lands that would likely result in their slaughter</LI> <LI>Additionally: they were there cut off in Fayspires as most of the elven population from Takish-Hiz would have been able to make it to Freeport and flee across the sea to begin anew. </LI></UL> <P>So "back" is basically meant to imply reuniting with the elves who were able to leave Tunaria safely. <BR></P> <P> </P>

[Ama]

<DIV>I think what I will do is take a trip down memory lane and remember what Erud talked to me about. :smileywink:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is also a couple of interesting characters in EQOA Frontiers on being the ogre city of Oggok. </DIV>

[DreamerClou]

Thank you Pyrrhx for clearing that up perfectly! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />