The 'Enlightenment'

[Mary the Prophetess]

<DIV>Lore states that the Marr Twins took a small group of Barbarians and 'enlightened' them, thereby creating humans and, (presumably), marking the beginning of the 'Age of Enlightenment'.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I always took this to mean that Human-Kind, in the form of Barbarians, were nomadic groups of hunters and gatherers, living in small communities without a written language or advanced skills in metallurgey, agriculture or mathematics; in short neolithic peoples. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The 'enlightenment' I always saw as what we might today call  an epiphany; a spark of inspiration that leads to a new discovery, (say, agriculture for instance), that marks the beginnings of civilization.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I never took it to mean the actual, literal creation of a new species.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Am I mistaken in these views?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM><FONT size=1>edit for spelling</FONT></EM></DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Mary the Prophetess on <span class=date_text>08-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:46 PM</span>

[Cusashorn]

<P>From "A Brief History of Norrath"</P> <P> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> "As the dust settled, the last of the gods came to Norrath. Mithaniel Marr, god of Valor, and Erollisi Marr, goddess of Love, created the Barbarians, a  hardy race who settled the cold and rugged northlands, near the ruins of the Giant empire. Being the youngest race, they were generally unwashed and rugged, possessing very few social graces. And while they too had a warlike culture, there were those amongst them who began to believe in something more. By this time the other civilizations of Norrath had either long since declined, or were well on their way, and this small minority of Barbarians saw an opportunity to triumph where the others had failed. Perhaps this was a seed of wisdom planted by the Marr Twins, or perhaps it was only by chance, but as the Barbarians spread across the lands, warring with both each other and any other race encountered, this tiny movement continued to grow. And even amidst desolation and war, there was hope. Thus began the Age of Blood. <P>The last of the Elder Races to decline was the empire of the Elves. The Elddar Forest spread across the entire south eastern quarter of Tunaria. Cities and Villages built high into the trees houses thousands of Wood Elves, and the marble cities of the High Elves were built in the forest's clearings and meadows, their white towers and spires climbing out of the forest, higher than the tallest tree. But then came the last curse of the gods, as Solusek Ro, Lord of Flame, arched the spine of the serpent mountains, bringing heat from the burning sun to the ancient forest. The rivers ran dry, it rained less each year, and while the great elven druids found long and hard,  using their powerful magics to combat the change, they could only delay the inevitable. Slowly the forest gave way to desert, and eventually even great Takish-Hiz crumbled and the elves were forced to flee Antonica, leaving much fo their greatness behind. Thus began the Lost Age.</P> <P><FONT color=#66ff00>This next period of Norrathian history as it relates to many of the races is the least known. It is surmised by the more knowledgeable historians that while the elder races regrouped and reestablished themselves, a small group of Barbarians were suddenly transformed both physically and intellectually. Most believe this to be the last major and direct act of divine intervention, and <U><EM><STRONG>perhaps the reason so little is known about this period is that the gods wish it to be so, deciding afterwards that they would have less to do with their creations.</STRONG></EM></U> In any case, this small and enlightened group were the fathers of the Human race, and they rapidly gained a foothold throughout the lands, studying the lost art of geomancy. The Combine Empire, as this lost race of Humans is called, spread throughout the known world, but then died even more quickly than it grew, and for reasons still unknown. And while they are the ancestors of every Human on Norrath and their relics and ruins still litter the lands from Odus to Feydwer, <EM><STRONG><U>little history of this period remains."</U></STRONG></EM></FONT><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>Are you mistaken on your views? Not even I can answer that with a yes or no.</P>

[Coccinea_Maga]

<div></div>I believe that only a developer will be able to say whether you are mistaken or not.  As you know, the lore of EverQuest is open to heavy interpretation.   <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span>Using the Book of Ages -- specifically the <a href="http://lorenorrath.free.fr/read.php?link=ages_blood" target="_blank">Age of Blood</a> and the <a href="http://lorenorrath.free.fr/read.php?link=ages_lost" target="_blank">Lost Age</a> -- and the Histories of the <a href="http://lorenorrath.free.fr/read.php?link=race_barbarian" target="_blank">Barbarians</a> and the <a href="http://lorenorrath.free.fr/read.php?link=race_human" target="_blank">Humans</a>, my interpretation is this:The Marr Twins created the Barbarian race near the beginning of the Age of Blood.  From Everfrost, they spread south, then through the Karanas, eventually stopping near what was the northern part of the Elddar Forest.  After Solusek Ro turned the Elddar Forest into the Desert of Ro, they began to slowly retreat back towards Halas.  A few clans remained in the southern areas (North Ro, East Karana, and West Karana) and created trade and fishing communities that still existed in EQLive.Sometime during the early middle part of the Age, a group of Barbarians had an epiphany (either through forward thinking or some Promtheian-like action by the Marr Twins) and broke away, eventually becoming the Combine Empire.  Years of living in a temperate climate, interbreeding, changes in diet and technological/magical advances led to enough genetic differences to classify Humans as a seperate race.The Age of Enlightenment seems to start around the time that Erud and his followers left Freeport and headed west towards Odus.<hr size="2" width="500">The anthropologist in me needs to point out one thing. The characteristics that you use to describe 'neolithic,' are actually more 'paleolithic' in nature. For the most part in Neolithic civilizations, you have beginnings of permanet settlements, pottery being used, a rise in agriculture and domestication of animals.  Barbarians have always seemed more advanced that that to me; more of a very late Iron Age/early mideval (Norse/Viking) society.

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Coccinea_Maga wrote:<BR> The Age of Enlightenment seems to start around the time that Erud and his followers left Freeport and headed west towards Odus.<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Vhalen commented that the Age of Enlightenment had actually been going on for quite a while before Erud founded the Erudite race.</P>

[Mary the Prophetess]

<P>EQoA, even though not recognized as official lore, takes place 500 years prior to the time of EQ Live.  In that game, the Erudites are on Odus; though probably just barely, as Erudin has yet to be named as such, and is still called Arcadin.</P> <P>Vhalen has stated that the Age of Enlightenment had begun some time prior to the crossing of Erud and his followers.</P> <P>The age prior to the Age of Enlightenment was the Lost Age I believe; and then further back, the Age of Blood.</P> <P>The rise and fall of the Combine Empire is supposed to have occured during the Lost Age, and we now know that Takish 'Hiz and Ardathium also fell during this time, (though probably quite early in the age).</P> <P>Since the Combine was, initially, a Human empire, that would indicate that the 'enlightenment' begun by the Marr Twins had begun even earlier, probably in the proceeding age; the Age of Blood.</P> <P>It was during the Age of Blood that the Barbarians began their 'enlightenment' and slowly began to form human settlements.  It was also during this age that Solusek caused the Serpent Spine Mountains to 'arch', and thus began the long, slow process which eventually destroyed the Elddar Forest, and formed the Deserts of Ro.</P> <P>So:</P> <P>Does the Age of Enlightenment mark the elevation of Human-Kind by the Marr Twins as the lore says, or does it instead refer to the 'enlightenment' of Erud and his followers, and thus takes place long after the Marr Twins intervened? </P> <P>Or does the Age of Enlightenment stretch further than we assume, and encompass both the Age of Blood, and the Lost Age as well?</P><p>Message Edited by Mary the Prophetess on <span class=date_text>08-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:58 PM</span>

[Coccinea_Maga]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<blockquote><hr>Coccinea_Maga wrote:The Age of Enlightenment seems to start around the time that Erud and his followers left <strike><font color="#ff0000">Freeport</font></strike><font color="#ff0000">  Qeynos* </font>and headed west towards Odus.<hr></blockquote><p>Vhalen commented that the Age of Enlightenment had actually been going on for quite a while before Erud founded the Erudite race.</p><hr></blockquote>If you are refering to <a href="http://eqiiforums.soe.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=lore&message.id=11740&view=by_date_ascending&page=1" target="_blank">this thread</a> Vhalen says that both Qeynos and Freeport were built during the Age of Enlightenment, but the founding for Erudin (the city, not the race) was generally considered the first major event of the Age.  In order for Humans to incorrectly consider the founding of the city to be the beginning of the Age, Erud would have had to leave Qeynos some point prior to that event.  This would <b><u>seem</u> </b>to have the Age start <u><b>around</b></u><b> </b>the time that Erud and his followers left.<font color="#ff0000" size="1">*correcting my error</font><blockquote><hr>Mary the Prophetess wrote:<div></div><div></div><p>EQoA, even though not recognized as official lore, takes place 500 years prior to the time of EQ Live.  In that game, the Erudites are on Odus; though probably just barely, as Erudin has yet to be named as such, and is still called Arcadin.</p><p>Vhalen has stated that the Age of Enlightenment had begun some time prior to the crossing of Erud and his followers.</p><p>The age prior to the Age of Enlightenment was the Lost Age I believe; and then further back, the Age of Blood.</p><p>The rise and fall of the Combine Empire is supposed to have occured during the Lost Age, and we now know that Takish 'Hiz and Ardathium also fell during this time, (though probably quite early in the age).</p><p>Since the Combine was, initially, a Human empire, that would indicate that the 'enlightenment' begun by the Marr Twins had begun even earlier, probably in the proceeding age; the Age of Blood.</p><p>It was during the Age of Blood that the Barbarians began their 'enlightenment' and slowly began to form human settlements.  It was also during this age that Solusek caused the Serpent Spine Mountains to 'arch', and thus began the long, slow process which eventually destroyed the Elddar Forest, and formed the Deserts of Ro.</p><p>So:</p><p>Does the Age of Enlightenment mark the elevation of Human-Kind by the Marr Twins as the lore says, or does it instead refer to the 'enlightenment' of Erud and his followers, and thus takes place long after the Marr Twins intervened? </p><p>Or does the Age of Enlightenment stretch further than we assume, and encompass both the Age of Blood, and the Lost Age as well?</p><p>Message Edited by Mary the Prophetess on <span class="date_text">08-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:58 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote> According to the lore from the Book of Ages (a compilation of lore from EQLive manuals) -- the Combine Empire rose at the end of the Age of Blood and heralded in the Lost Age.  Near the beginning/middle of the Lost Age, the Elven civilization on Tunaria/Antonica fell, soon followed by the mysterious decline of the Combine.  Most of the magical knowledge gained by the Combine disappeared with them, so when the humans spread out and founded Qeynos and Freeport -- some time during the end of the Lost Age or beginning of the Age of Enlightenment -- they had no magic users. Excerpt from the <a href="http://lorenorrath.free.fr/read.php?link=ages_lost" target="_blank">Lost Age</a>:<blockquote>Explorers and adventurers returned from afar with tales of elves, dwarves, and other strange creatures, as well as descriptions of ancient abandoned cities. A few even came back with limited knowledge of sorcery and the mystic arts. And when that discontent minority of leaders heard all of this, they became both jealous and determined. <font color="#3399ff">[End Chapter -- continues in Age of Enlightenment]</font></blockquote>Excerpt from the <a href="http://lorenorrath.free.fr/read.php?link=ages_enlightenment" target="_blank">Age of Enlightenment</a>:<blockquote>A small, frail man of great intellect called Erud led this group, and he formed them into a council.  ...... The first human mages since the Combine Empire were born wizards, sorcerers, and enchanters occupied the great halls of Erudin and grew immensely in both power and knowledge.</blockquote>Personally, I take the Age of Enlightenment to refer to the vast amounts of magical knowledge gained (or regained) by the young races -- not the actual creation/enlightenment of Humans from Barbarian stock.<font color="#ff0000" size="1"></font>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>ahh yes, you're right, thats what I was thinking of.</DIV>